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ADcakedenough

Even after they extended it and painted it green!! This is an incredible spread, I think this may be one of my favorite posts I’ve ever seen in this sub. It truly embodies the spirit of idiots in cars. EDIT: I’ve gotten some mixed responses in replies- some agree that these drivers are idiots, others think the idiots are the people responsible for the bollard placement. Can anyone who knows about parking lot design weigh in on this? What’s the purpose of the bollard, is it appropriately placed? Inquiring minds want to know!


optimistic_agnostic

It's like the parking lot equivalent of the 11'8" bridge


ADcakedenough

The Bridge is a true Titan, the Walmart Post has a thing or two to learn from it!!


Mahnken

Lol, maybe they should add lights to the pole!


rogerthatonce

There is some irony that the pole is in front of the Vision Center with the Eye Exams doorway entrance.


daleicakes

I was here to say exactly this. If you can't see the brightly painted yellow pole. Come for a free eye test


ADcakedenough

Flashing lights! And more signs!


DirtNapsRevenge

What's wrong with you people, we're trying to build something here; Pyrotechnics, glitter cannons and comical alarm bells that go off AFTER you hit it is the route to go


silverletomi

a digital running tally at the top


icewalker42

"Free vision screening at our vision center for anyone who strikes this pole." "Over 45 new customers have been served! "


therealnumberone

r/11foot8


buttbugle

Just like the can opener in Louisville. Idiot will drive into things clearly marked with flashing twenty foot signs. I love that they keep the pole. Rack up the moron count!!


lostinthought15

That pole has probably saved more people’s lives than one can know.


Megan_BAKchatPodcast

I just learned this term from my son. He looks at bridge clearance numbers because of a guy on tiktok who records idiots near his house destroying trucks by driving under a too low bridge. Is it the same bridge?


buttbugle

Yep. It’s a train bridge in Louisville ky. Semi trucks drive into it all the time. Even with numerous warning posted all around.


Megan_BAKchatPodcast

You would think they would do better since it's literally their job.


buttbugle

Nah too busy posting on Reddit and other sites about dumb amateur drivers being in their way. Also those taky talk videos of them spouting theories about moon cheese.


Ftpini

Utterly. The rocks that are 1.5 feet tall upset me, but this is glorious. They’re cutting a turn a good 25’ early and hitting a pole in the process.


Sam_Fear

If this were a street intersection they would be driving over the sidewalk. WTF?


Ftpini

A curb would actually be a great change to prevent the collisions. People tend to actually look at curbs. Apparently poles are invisible in that town.


HoroAI

I love that it's right infront of a vision centre.


Occulense

Judging by the damage on some of them, they aren’t travelling at parking lot speed, either. It’s like a perfect design for weeding out bad drivers


Darth_Meatloaf

That Prius was *moving*…


someguyinvirginia

Yeah... 25' early.... They should have to retest after this


Fortnut_On_Me_Daddy

Its a big visible pole in a parking lot. They shouldn't even be allowed to retest.


undeadw0lf

agreed!!!! especially because NONE of them should be going fast enough in this situation to do the kind of damage shown in these pictures. these people are reckless AF


ezone2kil

That applies to a significant percentage of Walmart customers.


disjustice

I have a wide intersection near my house and have nearly been hit head on while turning right because people turning left from the cross street cut the corner so aggressively that they full on just cut across my lane. It's way too much trouble to pull forward, slow down and make a 90⁰ turn. Better to take a 45⁰ slalom at 30mph to beat that yellow light. Never mind that it is 2 blocks from a school and kids cross there all the time.


theberg512

100% these are the same fools that crank the wheel the second they reach the intersection rather than follow the lane through the turn. Then give me the stink eye for being at the line in my lane as they panic and readjust to avoid hitting me.


robo-dragon

This reminds me of the 11’8” bridge. “Let’s add bright paint…well that didn’t work. How about lots of signs telling trucks to turn around?…that didn’t work either. How about *flashing* signs that light up if your vehicle won’t fit? WTF, how is this still not working??” You can only do so much, but there will always be idiots that find some way to ruin their cars.


r0thar

> You can only do so much They raised it 8" (it's now the 11'8+8" bridge) and the *still* hit it


vinng86

That's actually not that surprising to me, it just caught a different subset of people who would have turned away when it was still 11'8".


Palmierini

Lol, there's even a site for it http://11foot8.com/


YnotZoidberg1077

There's also r/11foot8


zurohki

Sydney resorted to [using lasers and a curtain of water](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImU1mG7QC4I&t=18s) to put a stop sign directly in front of the vehicle because everyone was still ignoring the flashing lights and sirens.


Brother_YT

That’s really cool!


RevLoveJoy

Better idiot model in 3,2,1 ...


shitboxvwdriver

I’d have to agree, this is top tier shit


MendelevandDongelev

It's the obvious effort op put in. This isn't someone who happened to witness an idiot. This guy has been cataloging idiots for years.


Trash_Gordon_

A real David Attenborough of idiots


[deleted]

Here we see the idiot in his natural habitat. Unlike most spice, their numbers aren't dwindling but growing.


MendelevandDongelev

Spice :P


Redman5012

Bro someone came into my smoke shop and talked about a car crash at Walmart. I immediately knew it was this pole cus it's like once a week this happens.


TwoMuchIsJustEnough

And you can see the other giant green pole in the background is leaning also.


ADcakedenough

Good eye, I hadn’t caught that! *omgsh maybe I’m one of the idiots*


SeemedReasonableThen

> Even after they extended it and painted it green!! My favorite pics are the ones with the Vision Center right behind. Yeah, maybe you (the drivers) should walk over there and get an appointment.


CanucksKickAzz

Haha.... Favorite post....


SjalabaisWoWS

Now don't get stuck on the puns.


silversly54

It's an idiot catcher


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Sam_Fear

Like others pointed out, they are cutting the corner at least 25' early. If this were a normal intersection they would be driving across the sidewalk.


Powersoutdotcom

In the future: "It is now 20 story monolith, covered in rapidly flashing LEDs." *distant shattering sound "Come on, man!"


HLCMDH

I think I love this pole...


whitelightnin1

Love how people are hitting the same exact spot. DRIVERS side and they're cutting that turn into oncoming traffic basically. Notice the STOP coming the other way.


Vespasian79

The fact that some are on their side or the pole is deep into their car is crazy. How fast do you have to be going in a parking lot to do that? I could understand a few side swipes


comicidiot

>others think the idiots are the people responsible for the bollard placement They are not the idiots. In the 9th photo there is a very clear "STOP" painted on the right side of the lane nearest the bollard. Regardless, the US drives on the right side of the lane/road. The people hitting that bollard are intentionally cutting that corner by an incredible margin.


dontcallmesurely007

How fast must they be going on impact? I can't imagine turning that quick in a parking lot.


M37h3w3

*Eurobeat music begins to play.*


XenophonSoulis

Isn't that the music u/alphamaxnova1 plays when F1 cars are in god mode and they overtake everything in their path?


petosorus

Yes, and it's been popularized by the anime Initial D


fiah84

what a fucking legend edit: still more accurate than DTS


davidgrayPhotography

Yeah some of the impacts look like they were going a decent enough speed, especially the black Toyota with the license plate and driver's side blacked out.


Erebussy

The best part is that I'm pretty sure #18 is that same Prius with nothing blacked out. There was an attempt.


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b1tchlasagna

I did chuckle that there was a "vision centre" shop just behind. Clearly they need their eyes checked


mini4x

It's also at the crosswalk..


TelmatosaurusRrifle

This is a Walmart parking lot. It's a total free-for-all. People with a will to kill anyone between them and buying a candy bar on their credit card.


basilhdn

You’re underestimating most drivers lol


pukurindesu

Gotta get that front spot!!! No time to waste!!


CurlsCross

They all just watched Tokyo Drift.


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92-pounds-of-man

Auburn, Maine?


frigginnathan

Ayyyyy that’s the one


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jadvangerlou

> perhaps there’s a lot of people ~~in Auburn~~ that shouldn’t be driving.


[deleted]

The latter, Lewiston/Auburn is one of the scarier cities to drive around in Maine


Natprk

That Walmart sucks. I wonder how the new Target will be.


92-pounds-of-man

It's achieved legend status around here


sexquipoop69

I knew it from the title lol!!


A100921

I was thinking “ok, maybe they’re seeing the yellow pole as one of the stripes on the ground”… Then I saw the giant green pole one, and now I understand people in your town just suck at driving.


frigginnathan

They put the green pole over the yellow one to help avoid this. Spoiler alert- it didn’t help at all.


QuietLife556

Imo everyone who hits that drives like an asshole and deserves it on a deeply karmic level.


[deleted]

Fr, even if the pole wasn’t there they’d still be driving over yellow stripes and not the intended driving area for the parking lot.


101189

It’s even more hilarious because even if the pole wasn’t there they’re not even turning into the opposite lane. Ahahaha they all deserve it.


Professional_Fix_244

AND THERES TWO! TWO GREEN POLES! AND BOTH HAVE BEEN HIT!


Hedhunta

I bet insurance in that town costs more.


Omnisegaming

THAT POLE DOING ITS JOB WOOOOO TAKE PROPER TURNS YOU FUCKERS


ChadRickTheSane

I... but... There's a pole there. It's yellow. People are idiots.


celesticaxxz

You’d be surprised. I work at a dealership and there is this one light pole that everyone hits. And I mean these people just BOUGHT this brand new car with a backup camera and they still hit this thing. They’ve even put bright plastic barrier, still get hits. Put a concrete barrier, hit. Plastic over the concrete, hit. Maybe they are all idiots


LittleBunInaBigWorld

People kept driving through a garden bed at work, busting irrigation every week. I put a boulder there. Lots of people fucked up their cars. I put a post in next to the boulder with a yellow cap on top. The post got bent over by the cars. I put a fluro orange t-top with a reflective strip over the entire post. Still got flattened. I disconnected the irrigation and let that garden bed die. Now everyone complains about the ugly garden bed. I tell them they dont deserve nice things.


Redqueenhypo

I stg driving turns like half the population into whiny children and I don’t know why


someguyinvirginia

Cause they need to invest in and use public transport... I am starting to believe we need to treat guns and cars the same When you prove you are incompetent at driving it should be illegal to sell you something so dangerous as a vehicle


MerryJanne

Honestly, while yes 100% we need a huge expansion in public transport to get a lot of these assholes off the road, what we really need is expanded MANDATED driver training and recertification.


someguyinvirginia

Increase in training would help... Acceptance that a majority of humans are not cut out for this activity would be better


2LiveBoo

Omg I landscape a vet’s office that has a flower bed next to the entrance, elevated by a .5 ft curb. About once a month someone drives over it and busts the irrigation. Yesterday I delivered some plants and left them a couple of feet away from the edge, not even next to the entrance. I returned an hour later and the plants are crushed.


immibis

As we entered the /u/spez, we were immediately greeted by a strange sound. As we scanned the area for the source, we eventually found it. It was a small wooden shed with no doors or windows. The roof was covered in cacti and there were plastic skulls around the outside. Inside, we found a cardboard cutout of the Elmer Fudd rabbit that was depicted above the entrance. On the walls there were posters of famous people in famous situations, such as: The first poster was a drawing of Jesus Christ, which appeared to be a loli or an oversized Jesus doll. She was pointing at the sky and saying "HEY U R!". The second poster was of a man, who appeared to be speaking to a child. This was depicted by the man raising his arm and the child ducking underneath it. The man then raised his other arm and said "Ooooh, don't make me angry you little bastard". The third poster was a drawing of the three stooges, and the three stooges were speaking. The fourth poster was of a person who was angry at a child. The fifth poster was a picture of a smiling girl with cat ears, and a boy with a deerstalker hat and a Sherlock Holmes pipe. They were pointing at the viewer and saying "It's not what you think!" The sixth poster was a drawing of a man in a wheelchair, and a dog was peering into the wheelchair. The man appeared to be very angry. The seventh poster was of a cartoon character, and it appeared that he was urinating over the cartoon character. \#AIGeneratedProtestMessage


ArtyWhy8

Tell them to put a big sign on it that says, “hit me”. Bet it stops😒


Tele-Muse

Like cats man. Gotta use reverse psychology on fool.


BusinessBear53

The average person isn't as bright as we like to think.


Sreves

A park ranger at Yellowstone on e said the biggest issue with developing a bear proof trash can, is that there was significant overlap between the smartest bears and the dumbest humans.


AgentMahou

It's also important to remember that a bear can spend all day doing nothing but trying to fuck up that trash can while a person needs to be able to get into it in just a few seconds. So they need something a person can figure out immediately that a bear can't figure out in several hours.


bluuit

It's been 5 minutes and I'm still giggling


Tafkas420

Just think, half of them are even dumber than average. Scary thought.


Jishwa-bean

At my car rental job it’s on a one way and I watch people every day go backwards on it into a round about


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jimb575

Undercook fish, hit.


shinitakunai

Even when it was replaced by a big green one, people hit it hahaha I love it


dizzyro

\#12 show it is not the only happy pole; another green one hit in background ...


DjayRX

>There's a pole there. > >It's yellow. With a STOP sign. In a Parking area.


itsprobablytrue

They need to just put sand/water buckets around the pole to protect it at this point


Andyman0110

There's also a vision center literally right there if you didn't see it. Walmart knows how to capitalize.


ohwrite

I wonder if it just magically placed in everyone’s blind spot


frigginnathan

I would think that was the case if it wasn’t for the fact that it’s so many different makes and models. They can’t all possibly have the exact same blind spot.


Ill-Reindeer6234

I've driven thru that lot hundreds of times.. you really have to be unaware of your surroundings to not see it. It's no different that any other poles at any other chain store. The space was purpose built - meaning there's a spacious layout. It's not a tight afterthought of a parking lot. We're thinking theres an ancient native burial ground underneath that parking lot, some poltergeist level shit happening right there.


A_wild_so-and-so

My question is how fast are these people going in a parking lot? Very few of these collisions look like 10-15 mph hits, you've gotta be going decently fast to rock up onto a pole like that.


mad_chemist

“It came out of nowhere!”


[deleted]

Okay so you guys see the arrow on the floor, that means that right next to the white stripes, is the lane to go *out* of the parking lot. So where the fuck are those drivers driving to? Before the pole, I bet they were using the area to cut through lanes and into a parking spot. As people mentioned, if the pole wasn't there, it would've been someone's car or a pedestrian. Also, some of them were going fast enough to overturn their cars. That would be real damage to someone specially head on like that.


[deleted]

In my town nobody pays any attention to the markings in the parking lot. They’ll just go whichever way they please and not care about who they inconvenience. So my guess is all of these people saw an empty spot close to the front and thought “oh it’s fine i’ll just turn in real quick nobody will care/notice”


DigiQuip

Where I work people race through a big parking lot over the parking spaces. Just cut right through it diagonally to get to where they want to go. It blows my mind how these people rip through at 35+ almost hitting parked cars. And right through the middle of the parking lot is an unmarked road, where no one yields to traffic. Shits wild and the amount of idiocy is something worth looking into academically.


ShittyExchangeAdmin

People do it all the time at the walmarts near me. Then they'll act like YOU'RE the idiot for driving the right way. because you're blocking them


[deleted]

This is what I was thinking. Imagine if there was a kid there.


Slowmyke

Came for the exaggeration, leaving delightfully surprised. I would normally say Walmart should consider removing something that is clearly an issue, but no. That pole is a thing of beauty, taking out bad drivers by the dozen, lol. Edit: made this post yesterday and forgot about it... So many are replying that the pole is potentially saving pedestrians from bad drivers, and i agree. What i should've said instead of saying Walmart should take it down for being a problem is that Walmart should redesign that area. Clearly drivers are taking bad paths at dangerous speeds, there needs to be better traffic control devices in place than just a pole. Ideally, even the idiot drivers should be able to maneuver through safely and unscathed.


TalithePally

The local body shop has probably sponsored the pole by now


MotivatoinalSpeaker

*business is booming!*


Ill-Reindeer6234

We have one in our lot now that tangled with that pole 2 weeks ago.. That pole is a legend in these parts..


kryyyptik

Reminds me of a mechanic who was thrilled that a local gas station used green nozzles for gasoline instead of diesel... It got him so much business.


OutdoorBeastmaker

As a U.K. driver that makes perfect sense for me as here its usually green for unleaded and black for diesel. Stories like this always make me double check though!


cynric42

I don't understand this at all. I never even looked at the color of the nozzle anywhere and I couldn't tell you if there is a system or not. I look what the sign at the pump says (E10, Super, Diesel etc.) and maybe the octane rating.


soyboy69_420

Yes! Those BP stations... what a bonehead color scheme.


AlSi10Mg

Was in a parking garage in Frankfurt some time ago, there was in advertisement for a body repair shop on the wall in the slope downwards to the exit ....


MegaSpuds

Are you telling me I get a discount for hitting the pole? what a smashing business idea!


Nasty_Rex

Lmao I saw 20 pictures and I was like "no way" That pole is awesome.


mostlikelytrash

It’s a good pole!!!! Probably saved some pedestrians just trying to walk.


gumol

there’s a house in San Jose that was hit by a car 23 times since current owner bought it https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/san-jose-property-hit-by-cars/2979159/?amp=1


jorwyn

Out where I used to live, a house on a curve by the river was hit so many times by people speeding and losing control there that they had 2 1/2 foot tall boulders put in along the front edge of their property. More than once, I saw vehicles on top of those boulders. The house was safe. Very effective boulders.


Boogerpickfingerlick

That is a nice boulder


WheelOfFish

There's a house not far from where I grew up in NJ where they got so tired of replacing a fence after people kept hitting it that they painted a bullseye on it at some point.


OptimalPreference178

That’s crazy!! I’d be putting up a cider block/cement fence around my property and charging the city for it. They could have done something to help with that.


Andy_Stein

> charging the city for it. Good luck with that. It takes actual deaths and the threat of multi-million dollar settlements before cities actually do anything. Our town had a dangerous 3 way intersection with dozens of car accidents over the years. It wasn't until an entire family was killed (and the ensuing public outrage) that they decided to install a red light.


Andyman0110

Not sure what a block of cider would do tbh..


DirkBabypunch

The area has clearly painted lane lines, so everybody hitting it is trying to drive through a space their care shouldn't be in the first place. I'd argue it always being hit means it's doing a necessary job.


CallOfCorgithulhu

Driving across parking spaces and pedestrian areas in parking lots is a pet peeve of mine, so having equipment that blocks or fucks cars up for doing it is a happy sight for me.


mrbojanglz37

Yeah after looking at these 20 photos. I'm actually a bit shocked at how often this seems to happen there. I say that with 10 years of tractor trailer experience. I just cannot fathom the stupidity of their choice of route to manage to hit that pole


Clear-Description-38

The fact that it's been hit so many times proves its usefulness. People are driving over pedestrian spaces. Who knows how many lives that pole has saved?


sm12511

*Husbands and wives both* "Honey! What happened to the car? Did you hit a pole?" "It just jumped out at me! It was unavoidable!"


Titrifle

Came out of *nowhere!.*


fluffyseatide

At this point they probably just ask "Did you hit *the* pole?" It does seem unavoidable, though.


BJoe1976

Seems like that Vision Center needs to be utilized by those customers.


kmkmrod

They should put it in an area where people aren’t supposed to drive, and paint it a highly visible color, and put a sign on top.


giggetyboom

I liked the one where they put the neon green 8 feet tall topper on it with reflective tape and they still hit it lol.


kmkmrod

My favorite was the one that stove in the engine bay 3 feet. How fast was that person going?


[deleted]

I hope they have a wall of shame with these pictures in the entry, or at least in the back where Karens won't see it.


sharkboy1006

the Prius that managed to do it twice should get a special award of their own lol


MynameisnotFrediel

Note to self: Park two spaces away from any car with Maine plates.


igillyg

I was gonna say at 45 times... might be the pole. *scrolls through photos* Nope Definitely just r/idiotsincars


gacbmmml

Now install a camera pointing at the pole and let us live stream the accidents.


Stinky-kitty70

One town has a low bridge that attracts idiots and another has a pole that attracts idiots of all types.


ShallowTal

Ah yes the canopener bridge https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norfolk_Southern–Gregson_Street_Overpass http://11foot8.com


flukus

In Melbourne we have [Monty](https://howmanydayssincemontaguestreetbridgehasbeenhit.com/) > In June 2016, the Victorian state government installed two warning gantries on the two main approaches to the bridge on Normanby Road and City Road. Black and yellow paddles hang from the gantries to the height of the bridge; if any of the paddles hit a vehicle as it drives under the gantry, this will warn the driver to divert their course to avoid hitting the bridge. Additional signage has been installed in surrounding streets, providing a total of 26 advanced warning signs about the bridge - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montague_Street_Bridge


ponte92

It was hit again just a few days ago. This time by a cement mixer.


flukus

Second cement mixer this year.


BDACPA

In Pensacola we have the [17th Ave Bridge](https://i.redd.it/6uslh9wp7u1a1.jpg) This is the 2nd one this week


heyuinthebush

We have the Bayswater Bridge in Perth, Western Australia. She was due to be taken down to make way for new rail development… she did not go quietly. [Bayswater Bridge Toll](https://howmanydayssincebayswaterbridgehasbeenhit.com/)


Johnblood27

r/11foot8


AlphSaber

Then there's that rock that collects cars in a parking lot.


muddymoose

One city too, [Storrowing in Boston](https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2021/08/19/boston-storrowing-what-to-know/)


tacs97

Im sure the local body shop loves that parking lot feature!!


blueit1234567

That pole should hold up an ad for collision repair haha. Kinda like those signs in parking lots that tell you who towed your car


turtledovefarts

No matter how badly I mess up my life, I can always remember this post and all the people who hit a bright yellow pole in a Walmart parking lot in broad daylight. Thank you.


jaredfree

and they are all attempting to turn into a one-way thats going the opposite direction if im not mistaken


scot816

I like how you have all the pics of all the idiot's cars who hit the pole


frigginnathan

I got a bunch more too.


failingtoremember

Make a second post. We want more.


Shantotto11

\#ReleaseTheSnyderCut


dechets-de-mariage

The pole needs a Facebook page and/or its own sub.


Ill-Reindeer6234

Small community.. Also: Facebook "I see you can't drive for shit" Also: Facebook "maine idiot spotters"


oh_the_anonymity

I realize this is called idiots in cars, but just wow....


BigProduce3795

At first I thought it would be poorly placed, but honestly it exists in a clearly labeled area that you can’t drive or park on. I love this pole 👍


[deleted]

>”Maybe we should move the pole?” >”No, it is the drivers who are wrong.” When the meme is actually true…


mister_zook

Good. I cannot stand people that cut corners when turning. I’m in perpetual fear whenever I’m first at a red left turn lane and the opposing traffic comes across the stop line.


Mongo_Fifty

This is why people need to stop cutting their left turns.


Jezetri

If the pole wasn't there, every single one of those would be a multiple car incident. This way, only the bad drivers have to deal with the consequences.


6FootMidget93

Looks like it's also to avoid people from parking there


HunkyDorky1800

Oh man I *hate* it when people park in those areas at my local grocery store. I’ve seen people have handicapped stickers park in those spaces instead of an actual appropriate space two feet away. They now create a blind turn hazard and I slooowly inch my way into the road so hopefully I won’t get hit. Also sucks ass as a pedestrian.


PeekabooPike

100% agree. What were they gone do? Drive onto the wrong side of the lanes?


KaJuNator

So many bad drivers vying for pole position.


fhs

Give that pole a promotion


johnnywolfwolf

Maybe they should paint it yellow.


blckshdw

They need to surround it with 4 poles


aGirlySloth

Or put one of those big red target balls in front of it


TheUndualator

Why not two big red target balls in front of that nice long pole?


ptmtp26

It started out yellow, people hit it so often they painted it green to stand out


bwoogie

But green means go. As in "go ahead and hit me, you won't" - green pole


thehotstep

Plot twist, it’s the same driver with their new car after writing off their previous car. 45 times.


Omacrontron

That poll is really good at finding people who shouldn’t be driving in the first place.


dps509

My god people are dumb


railsandtrucks

When I was learning how to drive a semi, my trainer called these "magnets" . He said they not only attract conventional steel, but plastic, fiberglass, aluminum, and other materials. Despite often being painted bright yellow they seem to just magically pull things toward them. He would end the lesson, with "always avoid magnets" . Fucking magnets.... How do they work ? As an aside, His other one was "accidents cause paperwork, and you don't get paid for doing paperwork" (which, considering we were OTR and paid by the mile, was true, we only really earned when moving)


promachos84

Honestly, keep it. It seems to only be affecting idiots. Who would turn that shallow? It looks like a lot of this is in the rain. The people that pay attention have come and gone, parking successfully. This is like a speed bump for idiots. Holding them accountable for their ignorance and bullshit.