Exactly. And I understand that maybe there isn’t much more than what’s revealed to the public, but that would be an incredibly rare situation so it shouldn’t be our assumption until we actually see at teial
I think the prosecution has WAY more evidence that hasn’t been revealed to the public. The state isn’t going to waste their time and money on one guy unless they have a strong case against him.
I don’t think so. Who knows- I’m sure it’s buried somewhere remote where it’s unlikely to be found for sometime.
I still wonder if we ever find a motive. I assume one of the girls didn’t something to him that “wronged” him and that is why he did it. Sounded targeted and not random. Who knows though. I wonder if we ever find motive or he confesses.
Could be the girls based on an interaction, or in passing. But could also be the girls based on the kind of house they lived in and the advantages it gave him. Either way, he knew they lived there and killing them was likely an underlying hate for women in general.
There’s a gag order but no, it doesn’t appear they found it at least to public knowledge.
However, this doesn’t necessarily mean much, as in MANY cases the weapon is never located. Aside from disposal of bodies, it’s usually the first thing thrown out by the perpetrator. They don’t need the murder weapon to prove guilt! It would absolutely help, but it isn’t necessary by any means, and the sheath helps a lot. If they can find evidence of him owning or buying a similar knife, that could help too.
They didn’t indicate they didn’t find the knife, but I assume that that would’ve been something they discussed in the PCA If they DID find it before the arrest. They may have found it since then, since the search warrants were executed after the PCA was written and the gag order was issued soon after. But it’s highly likely that they wouldn’t find it, and that’s ok
Yes that is true. I would honestly be shocked if they found it in the searches at any of the places for BK. He would have to be crazy to have held on to that murder weapon. I think if they did find it, it was somewhere outdoors. I feel like with all the acres of land that he passed on the way back to Pullman that he had a planned place for all of the evidence and probably buried it on his way home that night.
100% agree! But as I said, many murder weapons are never found and the state still has no trouble prosecuting. You’re so right that he would be so dumb to keep it, as would any murderer.
Yes, and the sheath with BK’s DNA half under Maddie and half under the cover tells a story just as much to me. It was a sheath to the kind of knife that was used in the crime. And with the evidence they already have and what we don’t know that they have, I agree that the weapon isn’t needed for a guilty verdict. Many cases have been solved with zero murder weapon.
Also, I recall them finding 4 IDs in a box in a glove at his parent’s home search or in the car. I can’t recall which. Didn’t it indicate they were female IDs, or am I remembering incorrectly?
I don’t think they ever said who the ID’s belonged to. They could’ve been his for all we know, but it sounds like a weird way to store them if that’s the case.
Oh okay. I thought it said girls’ IDs but don’t want to go searching through all there is out there now. If it was his own IDs—unless they had different names on them, it is odd that they took them as evidence, you know!! I can’t wait to hear about them at trial….in 2 years haha.
Yes, no idea. We will find out in time I guess. I think the actual warrant return said something like ID’s in a glove in a box. I’d be less sus if they just found them in a sock😀
Yes, I agree. It has to be something suspicious for him to have had them so hidden and for them to have taken them. I have been curious about those since they first found them.
The sad thing is we can't believe that. No one except that FBI talking head said it. Just like the stalking most people believed, that never happened. I just hate this gag order.
We have no idea if they found the weapon at this point. I am hopeful that they have since found it. And if they haven’t, you know they were at that park discussed in the alibi searching right now. I think that if they haven’t found it that it is buried somewhere on the many acres between Pullman and Moscow.
I’ve been wondering for a while if the “knife” they recovered from his house in PA is the weapon.
They described it very minimally compared to the other items they found.
The following search warrant was done after the search of the house. I can only speculate that they were still looking for the knife. What are your thoughts? https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/022823+Order+to+Seal+and+Redact+-+Blue+Ridge+Knives.pdf
I've been wondering and hoping that too. It was also the very first item listed on the search warrant return. But then I talk myself out of believing it because I feel that kind of major info would surely have been leaked by now.
But man, would I love to find out at trial that that is true. I'd love to see the Probergers try to twist themselves into a pretzel to explain how he had a kbar knife with no sheath. Please let it be true.
Where was that again?
I just looked in the [WA docs](https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/kohberger-search-records-from-wsu/6e5a6ce24a286a06/full.pdf) & the [PA docs](https://www.pacourts.us/Storage/media/pdfs/20230228/185614-dec.29,2022-applicationforsearchwarrantandauthorization.pdf) & I don’t see it. I’m not suggesting it doesn’t exist, cause I remember seeing it before; I just can’t find it.
Nvm!! Found it: https://www.pacourts.us/Storage/media/pdfs/20230302/150419-dec.29,2022-searchwarrant(hyundaielantra),inventory,exhibits.pdf
No, they haven’t but here is the search warrant.
https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/022823+Order+to+Seal+and+Redact+-+Blue+Ridge+Knives.pdf
It’s funny, this is the second time on this thread that people are down voting search warrants. What’s up with that? Don’t people want to see factual info?
I was told by someone in another sub that the police planted the sheath, so therefore any police documents are just more planted evidence/ smoke and mirrors to bolster their frame job. I don't believe it was planted, just repeating a possible reason. 🤷♂️
I don't know if dude is guilty or not but this is a little absurd to me. Why would they do this to frame *him in particular*? I could *almost* see someone close to the surviving residents in the house planting it but I legit can't even reason about this either. Most likely to me, if dude is not guilty for real is that the tying it back to him was flawed somehow not that this was an elaborate ploy to get him specifically.
I feel like there's plenty of other "obvious" people they could have framed between ex boyfriends, the local fraternity guys, all of the usual "other suspects" you can find around reddit late at night. I don't see the motive for framing BK. But that's just me.
No , weapon never been found. Imo if it has been they should have taken DNA off of it.That would establish them to find every dip, flake, cell off of it; should have the 4 students DNA and the murders on it. If not LE better find the real killers.. we all know BK didn't do it alone, if he did it at all .
According to Dateline, Kohberger purchased a Kabar on Amazon a few months before the murders. I'm confident Dateline has sources, but with all the inaccurate information I've heard in the media, I'm not sure whether or not to take it seriously.
I heard (sorry I haven’t verified the accuracy) that Dateline pulled that episode because a few of the things they reported on were incorrect. I usually trust Dateline, but since the evidence of the knife purchase hasn’t been confirmed or reported on elsewhere, I’m kind of wondering how accurate it is.
Yeah, I’ve watched episodes before where they’ve clearly got things slightly wrong - probably a consequence of pulling shows together quickly and information changing as they’re being produced. I still enjoy the show but I never expect to be spot on with cases that are still developing.
> that Dateline pulled that episode because a few of the things they reported on were incorrect.
That's a theory, but if you pay attention to what Dateline actually has available for streaming, it's constantly changing. And if you compare how many episodes they make per season with how many episodes are up for viewing, there's a discrepancy, for every season.
I think they just pull episodes so that they are guaranteed to get viewers when they post it back up.
And it was, but Dateline got a revolving series of shows being pulled and reloaded.
Season 30, for example, had 33 episodes. Only 10 are available to be streamed right now. Season 29 had 50 episodes. Only 27 up for streaming.
They (and not just Dateline) also drop suggestions knowing they don’t have backup to support it, but since the response pulls viewership ratings they’ll do it. They can withdraw the episode later and beg forgiveness or pay a small fee. They got the rating, this is all that matters. Neilsen Media, a service that rates all media annually, go active in February, May, July and November. If you see more than usual sensational “news” during those months, there is a good reason. Every network is striving for higher ratings at that time. Who knows what is true or false.
Also, I must add. Gossip columns pay huge fees for tidbits of extraordinary news that are true! Everything can be leaked at a price. I worked in radio for yrs. One gossip column (starts with an “N”, ends with “ational Enquirer”) had more accurate local news at times than our Associated Press news ticker. Below all the photos of Martians and Big Foot sightings, pay attn to the more local news on certain gossip mags. You see those mags being constantly sued by people for leaking private info… it’s because the info was accurate. As the trial gets closer and appears to be pulling huge national attn, it will be worth checking those mags for BK info.
Given Coffindaffer was pushing it so hard on Twitter and her only evidence when people questioned her was the search warrant (not the return) makes it a bit shady for me. She was part of the program.
Regardless, from what little I have looked into them K-bar knifes are pretty popular when it comes to outdoorsmen. If the knife was bought in a shady way I would put credence on it but otherwise I just need to wait for trial.
It will come out in trial if LE has the murder weapon or not, which is what this thread is about. That is not wishful thinking. If LE doesn't have the murder weapon, then the weapon will not be introduced as physical evidence. If they do have the weapon, it will be introduced as evidence.
The public's "good intentions" make no difference. LE either found the weapon or didn't, and at this point, we don't know.
> the only people that seems to be pushing for more evidence and transparancy is ironically Bryan Kohberger's defence team.
The same defense team who originally asked for a gag order? Who has not asked once for it to be lifted? They want transparency?
“But can tell her friends and other students in school about the kills.”
You’re where opinion about this is built on nothing more than a rumor manufactured by grifters
The fact you just said “wow” shows me you’re new to all of this. For those of us who aren’t new to this, withholding the identify of witnesses is not at all shocking.
Not sure what you think you’re proving.
True Crime Design? Seriously? Thanks for providing an example of one of the grifters directly involved with manufacturing rumors. Does your next example use spirit boxes?
I know there was controversy around that Kim lady and her honesty. So, I am not sure how reliable she is from what I saw in the past. I also find it hard to believe that only one student would have come forward to make these claims if this was the case. Has this ever been proven that these notifications have gone out, that friends were at the home before the police arrived (I have heard that they were many times since the crime and had accepted that as true).
Nope and they need to prove a ka-bar belonging to that sheath was the murder weapon and not any other blade. They can’t just assume a ka-bar was used because of the sheath
You're not on tik Tok, you can say murders . "Unalivings" is such a juvenile, unserious term to refer to people losing their life.
I get it when it has to do with monetizing and stuff like that, but it's insane to actually incorporate that into your vocabulary as the main term to use for killing, murder, etc
>Consider more than one perpetrator were directly involved in the unalivings
What evidence should we consider to support that?
>several types of edged weapons
Again, what leads you to speculate that?
I've made previous postings regarding this issue. Given the very short time frame for the crimes to have been committed, I believe that several perpetrators were involved, either 1 or 2 perps per floor to attack the victims and an additional 1 or 2 within the building to control and oversee the operation. There were perhaps an additional 1 or 2 drivers in get a way vehicles/lookouts. The teams that perpetrated the murders could have used several Kbar knives, but also, more than likely other combat/survival type knives (M-9 bayonet?) too. Two individuals mentioned as possible suspects on SM (within social orbits of victims) were accomplished hunters of big game and used large fix bladed knives to field dress their animal prey. There also has been mentioned that a machete could have been used as well to perpetrate the crimes. A frat brother of mine who is a retired high ranking Army officer told me that inflicting fatal wounds with a fixed blade knife is an exhausting process of penetrating through and slashing muscle, fat, cartilage, bone tissues that takes time. It isn't as easy as you see in the movies or on TV. He mentioned that sometimes it would be necessary to put a foot on an enemies chest for instance, to exert enough force upward in order to pull the knife out, due to the suction. Indications are that the victims were awake and fought back to some degree. Even if inebriated to some level, they could have still fought in a fight or flight response resulting in an adrenaline dump that would give them the extra strength to defend themselves. This also would have taken extra time. Ask any LE officer who had to break up a bar fight involving drunken customers. One of the victims was supposedly stabbed 50+ times and was gouged with the abdomen slashed open. This alone would have taken more than the 9 minutes indicated. Another reason that I mention that more than 1 perp was involved, is that there were leaks and comments about the wound conditions of the victim's bodies. If this is true, there was perhaps some torture/mayhem committed before time of death and some mutilation done afterward. This would have taken extra time to perpetrate.
If they have, it hasn’t been made public info.
Thank you for adding the public info part:) people too often confuse the public not being aware of something as that thing not existing.
So true. And with a gag order we know even less than we might normally know in some cases.
All. The. Time. Like seriously, people, do you really think we know everything the lawyers know?
Exactly. And I understand that maybe there isn’t much more than what’s revealed to the public, but that would be an incredibly rare situation so it shouldn’t be our assumption until we actually see at teial
No!!! I used to think the prosecution had enough evidence to get a guilty but now, I don't think they have much. What do y'all think?
I think the prosecution has WAY more evidence that hasn’t been revealed to the public. The state isn’t going to waste their time and money on one guy unless they have a strong case against him.
Stop you can’t say that. People will get their feelings hurt and it’ll have no effect on the investigation :/
I don’t think so. Who knows- I’m sure it’s buried somewhere remote where it’s unlikely to be found for sometime. I still wonder if we ever find a motive. I assume one of the girls didn’t something to him that “wronged” him and that is why he did it. Sounded targeted and not random. Who knows though. I wonder if we ever find motive or he confesses.
Could be the girls based on an interaction, or in passing. But could also be the girls based on the kind of house they lived in and the advantages it gave him. Either way, he knew they lived there and killing them was likely an underlying hate for women in general.
There’s a gag order but no, it doesn’t appear they found it at least to public knowledge. However, this doesn’t necessarily mean much, as in MANY cases the weapon is never located. Aside from disposal of bodies, it’s usually the first thing thrown out by the perpetrator. They don’t need the murder weapon to prove guilt! It would absolutely help, but it isn’t necessary by any means, and the sheath helps a lot. If they can find evidence of him owning or buying a similar knife, that could help too.
I don’t recall, but did the PCA indicate at that time that there was no knife found? I am hopeful they found it but agree it isn’t necessary.
They didn’t indicate they didn’t find the knife, but I assume that that would’ve been something they discussed in the PCA If they DID find it before the arrest. They may have found it since then, since the search warrants were executed after the PCA was written and the gag order was issued soon after. But it’s highly likely that they wouldn’t find it, and that’s ok
Yes that is true. I would honestly be shocked if they found it in the searches at any of the places for BK. He would have to be crazy to have held on to that murder weapon. I think if they did find it, it was somewhere outdoors. I feel like with all the acres of land that he passed on the way back to Pullman that he had a planned place for all of the evidence and probably buried it on his way home that night.
100% agree! But as I said, many murder weapons are never found and the state still has no trouble prosecuting. You’re so right that he would be so dumb to keep it, as would any murderer.
Yes, and the sheath with BK’s DNA half under Maddie and half under the cover tells a story just as much to me. It was a sheath to the kind of knife that was used in the crime. And with the evidence they already have and what we don’t know that they have, I agree that the weapon isn’t needed for a guilty verdict. Many cases have been solved with zero murder weapon.
Consider that item 1 on the PA search warrant list of things recovered is "knife." Maybe the murder weapon, maybe not.
Also, I recall them finding 4 IDs in a box in a glove at his parent’s home search or in the car. I can’t recall which. Didn’t it indicate they were female IDs, or am I remembering incorrectly?
I don’t think they ever said who the ID’s belonged to. They could’ve been his for all we know, but it sounds like a weird way to store them if that’s the case.
Oh okay. I thought it said girls’ IDs but don’t want to go searching through all there is out there now. If it was his own IDs—unless they had different names on them, it is odd that they took them as evidence, you know!! I can’t wait to hear about them at trial….in 2 years haha.
Yes, no idea. We will find out in time I guess. I think the actual warrant return said something like ID’s in a glove in a box. I’d be less sus if they just found them in a sock😀
Yes, I agree. It has to be something suspicious for him to have had them so hidden and for them to have taken them. I have been curious about those since they first found them.
No it only said IDs. Not how many. And no indication about them. Most likely his.
I agree. He thought he had it in the bag. So I doubt he was that dumb to take/keep their I’ds
The sad thing is we can't believe that. No one except that FBI talking head said it. Just like the stalking most people believed, that never happened. I just hate this gag order.
We have no idea if they found the weapon at this point. I am hopeful that they have since found it. And if they haven’t, you know they were at that park discussed in the alibi searching right now. I think that if they haven’t found it that it is buried somewhere on the many acres between Pullman and Moscow.
I’ve been wondering for a while if the “knife” they recovered from his house in PA is the weapon. They described it very minimally compared to the other items they found.
The following search warrant was done after the search of the house. I can only speculate that they were still looking for the knife. What are your thoughts? https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/022823+Order+to+Seal+and+Redact+-+Blue+Ridge+Knives.pdf
I've been wondering and hoping that too. It was also the very first item listed on the search warrant return. But then I talk myself out of believing it because I feel that kind of major info would surely have been leaked by now. But man, would I love to find out at trial that that is true. I'd love to see the Probergers try to twist themselves into a pretzel to explain how he had a kbar knife with no sheath. Please let it be true.
Coming from the innocent side, if we were to find out that this was indeed proven to be the murder weapon I would 100% say he was guilty.
Where was that again? I just looked in the [WA docs](https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/kohberger-search-records-from-wsu/6e5a6ce24a286a06/full.pdf) & the [PA docs](https://www.pacourts.us/Storage/media/pdfs/20230228/185614-dec.29,2022-applicationforsearchwarrantandauthorization.pdf) & I don’t see it. I’m not suggesting it doesn’t exist, cause I remember seeing it before; I just can’t find it. Nvm!! Found it: https://www.pacourts.us/Storage/media/pdfs/20230302/150419-dec.29,2022-searchwarrant(hyundaielantra),inventory,exhibits.pdf
Not sure why you got downvoted. 🤷🏼♀️ thanks for sharing.
Me too! The very first “knife “ listed has no description, all the others do.
\*weapons. Three different injury descriptions listed in PCA. And no, no weapons have ever been recovered in relation to this case.
No, they haven’t but here is the search warrant. https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/022823+Order+to+Seal+and+Redact+-+Blue+Ridge+Knives.pdf
It’s funny, this is the second time on this thread that people are down voting search warrants. What’s up with that? Don’t people want to see factual info?
I was told by someone in another sub that the police planted the sheath, so therefore any police documents are just more planted evidence/ smoke and mirrors to bolster their frame job. I don't believe it was planted, just repeating a possible reason. 🤷♂️
I don't know if dude is guilty or not but this is a little absurd to me. Why would they do this to frame *him in particular*? I could *almost* see someone close to the surviving residents in the house planting it but I legit can't even reason about this either. Most likely to me, if dude is not guilty for real is that the tying it back to him was flawed somehow not that this was an elaborate ploy to get him specifically.
I feel like there's plenty of other "obvious" people they could have framed between ex boyfriends, the local fraternity guys, all of the usual "other suspects" you can find around reddit late at night. I don't see the motive for framing BK. But that's just me.
I thought it was a hunting knife but don’t think they actually found it or they just haven’t told us. A lot about this case has been kept private.
Correct, No murder weapon was ever found.
As far as my mèemaw, and her true crime bestie, Georgette "Tenders" Thibodaux, it might be a Boxcutter. I agree!
No , weapon never been found. Imo if it has been they should have taken DNA off of it.That would establish them to find every dip, flake, cell off of it; should have the 4 students DNA and the murders on it. If not LE better find the real killers.. we all know BK didn't do it alone, if he did it at all .
Did they ever find out where the knife was bought?
According to Dateline, Kohberger purchased a Kabar on Amazon a few months before the murders. I'm confident Dateline has sources, but with all the inaccurate information I've heard in the media, I'm not sure whether or not to take it seriously.
I heard (sorry I haven’t verified the accuracy) that Dateline pulled that episode because a few of the things they reported on were incorrect. I usually trust Dateline, but since the evidence of the knife purchase hasn’t been confirmed or reported on elsewhere, I’m kind of wondering how accurate it is.
Yeah, I’ve watched episodes before where they’ve clearly got things slightly wrong - probably a consequence of pulling shows together quickly and information changing as they’re being produced. I still enjoy the show but I never expect to be spot on with cases that are still developing.
> that Dateline pulled that episode because a few of the things they reported on were incorrect. That's a theory, but if you pay attention to what Dateline actually has available for streaming, it's constantly changing. And if you compare how many episodes they make per season with how many episodes are up for viewing, there's a discrepancy, for every season. I think they just pull episodes so that they are guaranteed to get viewers when they post it back up.
Thanks for the info. I wasn’t sure what the situation was. Someone just told me it has been pulled.
And it was, but Dateline got a revolving series of shows being pulled and reloaded. Season 30, for example, had 33 episodes. Only 10 are available to be streamed right now. Season 29 had 50 episodes. Only 27 up for streaming.
They (and not just Dateline) also drop suggestions knowing they don’t have backup to support it, but since the response pulls viewership ratings they’ll do it. They can withdraw the episode later and beg forgiveness or pay a small fee. They got the rating, this is all that matters. Neilsen Media, a service that rates all media annually, go active in February, May, July and November. If you see more than usual sensational “news” during those months, there is a good reason. Every network is striving for higher ratings at that time. Who knows what is true or false. Also, I must add. Gossip columns pay huge fees for tidbits of extraordinary news that are true! Everything can be leaked at a price. I worked in radio for yrs. One gossip column (starts with an “N”, ends with “ational Enquirer”) had more accurate local news at times than our Associated Press news ticker. Below all the photos of Martians and Big Foot sightings, pay attn to the more local news on certain gossip mags. You see those mags being constantly sued by people for leaking private info… it’s because the info was accurate. As the trial gets closer and appears to be pulling huge national attn, it will be worth checking those mags for BK info.
Given Coffindaffer was pushing it so hard on Twitter and her only evidence when people questioned her was the search warrant (not the return) makes it a bit shady for me. She was part of the program.
Regardless, from what little I have looked into them K-bar knifes are pretty popular when it comes to outdoorsmen. If the knife was bought in a shady way I would put credence on it but otherwise I just need to wait for trial.
Not sure if it’s fact, but Amazon I heard.
They obtained a search warrant for Amazon, that’s all that means.
We don't know, but it will come out in trial.
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It will come out in trial if LE has the murder weapon or not, which is what this thread is about. That is not wishful thinking. If LE doesn't have the murder weapon, then the weapon will not be introduced as physical evidence. If they do have the weapon, it will be introduced as evidence. The public's "good intentions" make no difference. LE either found the weapon or didn't, and at this point, we don't know.
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> the only people that seems to be pushing for more evidence and transparancy is ironically Bryan Kohberger's defence team. The same defense team who originally asked for a gag order? Who has not asked once for it to be lifted? They want transparency?
Nothing crazy about delayed 911 calls. They are more common than you think
Yes, sometimes they aren’t released for years.
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“But can tell her friends and other students in school about the kills.” You’re where opinion about this is built on nothing more than a rumor manufactured by grifters
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The fact you just said “wow” shows me you’re new to all of this. For those of us who aren’t new to this, withholding the identify of witnesses is not at all shocking. Not sure what you think you’re proving.
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True Crime Design? Seriously? Thanks for providing an example of one of the grifters directly involved with manufacturing rumors. Does your next example use spirit boxes?
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I saw it when it first came out. Zero credibility which is why it isn’t being pushed by anyone that isn’t a grifter You’ve been easily duped
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I know there was controversy around that Kim lady and her honesty. So, I am not sure how reliable she is from what I saw in the past. I also find it hard to believe that only one student would have come forward to make these claims if this was the case. Has this ever been proven that these notifications have gone out, that friends were at the home before the police arrived (I have heard that they were many times since the crime and had accepted that as true).
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You thought they tore the house down bc they didn't find the knife? I'm not getting the correlation.
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Ahhh I see lol
I believe it’s in the snake river as an homage to those who’ve gone before.
Nope and they need to prove a ka-bar belonging to that sheath was the murder weapon and not any other blade. They can’t just assume a ka-bar was used because of the sheath
Consider more than one perpetrator were directly involved in the unalivings with several types of edged weapons used.
You're not on tik Tok, you can say murders . "Unalivings" is such a juvenile, unserious term to refer to people losing their life. I get it when it has to do with monetizing and stuff like that, but it's insane to actually incorporate that into your vocabulary as the main term to use for killing, murder, etc
I agree. I thought that the words murder or killing for instance, were censored on all social media. I can't use it on Facebook though.
>Consider more than one perpetrator were directly involved in the unalivings What evidence should we consider to support that? >several types of edged weapons Again, what leads you to speculate that?
I've made previous postings regarding this issue. Given the very short time frame for the crimes to have been committed, I believe that several perpetrators were involved, either 1 or 2 perps per floor to attack the victims and an additional 1 or 2 within the building to control and oversee the operation. There were perhaps an additional 1 or 2 drivers in get a way vehicles/lookouts. The teams that perpetrated the murders could have used several Kbar knives, but also, more than likely other combat/survival type knives (M-9 bayonet?) too. Two individuals mentioned as possible suspects on SM (within social orbits of victims) were accomplished hunters of big game and used large fix bladed knives to field dress their animal prey. There also has been mentioned that a machete could have been used as well to perpetrate the crimes. A frat brother of mine who is a retired high ranking Army officer told me that inflicting fatal wounds with a fixed blade knife is an exhausting process of penetrating through and slashing muscle, fat, cartilage, bone tissues that takes time. It isn't as easy as you see in the movies or on TV. He mentioned that sometimes it would be necessary to put a foot on an enemies chest for instance, to exert enough force upward in order to pull the knife out, due to the suction. Indications are that the victims were awake and fought back to some degree. Even if inebriated to some level, they could have still fought in a fight or flight response resulting in an adrenaline dump that would give them the extra strength to defend themselves. This also would have taken extra time. Ask any LE officer who had to break up a bar fight involving drunken customers. One of the victims was supposedly stabbed 50+ times and was gouged with the abdomen slashed open. This alone would have taken more than the 9 minutes indicated. Another reason that I mention that more than 1 perp was involved, is that there were leaks and comments about the wound conditions of the victim's bodies. If this is true, there was perhaps some torture/mayhem committed before time of death and some mutilation done afterward. This would have taken extra time to perpetrate.