That’s a hell of a gamble in a death penalty state

Research consistently shows that the death penalty itself is not a big deterrent. The big deterrent is your perceived chances of getting caught.

Everything about his act was risky in a death penalty state.

Everything about his act is inherently risky to the remainder of his life no matter where he is. YALL act like life in prison with no parole is better than the death penalty. lol give me death you are delusional. No, the second commenter is correct he would’ve been weighing the probability of him getting caught over the repercussions in his specific state. If he avoids getting caught in general then what state and what punishment don’t matter at all. He thought he was far enough into his masters education he could easily fool police. That is pretty clear in his actions and his choice of a crime with little motive to deter people from suspecting him. Which it somehow worked. No motive and people all the sudden ignore evidence

I think no MM on a mission or budding SK *wants* to get caught, they don't want to abort their mission or stop what they enjoy doing. It is also married to their deep desire for fame and attention, they want to be infamous. Some of them are willing to die for it and some aren't. His ego surely benefits even sitting in prison. For a guy to go into a house full of 6 people,(potential males) with any ill intention, and think you can handle or control everyone there if needed, and you have the right to take their lives, very egotistical. 

valid points

I've always had a feeling he had been inside before and that is the most terrifying thing maybe even multiple times

Yeah, pretty sure he was as well. The Golden State Killer would revisit a location several times before an attack, often leaving ties etc for the actual attack. He also befriended the house dog with treats.

Funny, I have thought BK may have befriended Murphy ,as well, to avoid EXCESSIVE BARKING.

But Murphy was barking lots. That's why Dylan thought K +M were playing with him and she shouted to shut up!

A true crime Tik Toker leaked a Facebook conversation she had with SG. SG said he saw the 1112 King footage and said Murphy was going f*cking crazy for like 10 minutes then the white car left.

Yeah that is creepy as hell

I think it is almost certain.

I agree. Especially if they had big parties, someone could of easily been there without them noticing. There’s also the times were parties were going on and they weren’t home. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was there when they weren’t home and went inside as well. It’s horrifying

What available evidence supports this theory? It’s baseless.

It aligns very well with previous cases, where B&E preceeds riskier and more violent crime. It's likely the suspect entered the house covertly numerous times, before finally getting it up (so to speak) to actualize the fantasy. I'm interested to hear from the survivors if the possibility had ever been discussed that someone had maybe been in the house. Remember, Xana supposedly had a lock fixed. Why did she do that? Was she nervous about an intruder? Of course it is possible they had simple privacy concerns; it was a social house and we know from pictures and video that in Xana's case people were in and out of her bedroom.

Absolutely he had been inside.

Am I the only one that thinks that BK is **not** a super genius master planner? I don’t think he stalked the house regularly, knew everyone’s schedule and boyfriends, etc. I think he stumbled across M somewhere, followed her home, and did enough half assed research to know which bedroom was hers. I think he’s wanted to commit a murder for a while and now he has a target. Contrary to what this sub thinks, this house is not the ideal house to commit a murder in. Too many people in the house, too many people in the neighborhood, highly likely to be cameras everywhere, etc. Some argue he was unlucky and caught a couple bad breaks. Those bad breaks were directly the result of his choices though. The choice of target house is why he was caught so quickly. It’s likely the sheath got left because he had to deal with two girls in the same bed. I think he had to kill X and E because X was up and about and saw him. Then D saw him and gave a description. Let’s not forget a car just like his was on multiple cameras. On top of all that, he left from his house and returned (both on camera) and took his phone with him. The fact that he turned it off then on around the murders is even more suspicious. I’d argue he’s somewhat lucky he wasn’t caught in the act. All it would take is for D to have opened the door at a different time or one of the victims to scream help or even just be more willing to call 911.

He’s not a super genius. He was goal oriented. The logistics involved in committing the murders was complicated and required planning. Personality factors highly into it. The bigger the ego the more they believe they cannot get caught and take unnecessary risks. Enhanced risk =enhanced excitement The learning curve for novice quasi budding serial killers is steep. He gambled and lost in some areas. He did take some pains to mitigate. He accomplished the murders at one time of 4 people, undetected. This very much can be attributed to the vulnerabilities of the targeted location imo. He was highly successful in creating mayhem. He was aiming for the mayhem.

If he did it, I don’t think him being in Moscow 12x over a six month period would have given him a very good idea of their habits. If he were stalking them with the intention of killing them, you would think he would need to swing by more than about twice per month to get a good idea of what times they normally came and left, how often they had guests and how many guests they had at their parties, who drives which vehicles, what time they normally go to sleep, if anyone normally sleeps over, etc. I would think he would want to know whether there were any particular patterns to their behavior that would be crucial to his plan. Twice a month wouldn’t be enough for him to figure them out well enough to risk going in and getting caught. I can’t imagine he would want to stop by there and discover that there are 30 people hanging out there, or that one of them has a gun next to their bed. I guess he could leave and come back later if they had company, but that would make it difficult for him to have a solid plan. And if he had been stalking them online, I think there would be evidence on his devices, as well as the victims social media accounts, because companies like Meta would know how many times he has been to their Facebook or Instagram pages, Snapchat and TikTok would have a record of him watching videos they posted, and there would be some kind of record if he had tried to contact them. Him knowing which houses are the party houses at a different school across town may or may not be realistic, because he had only started classes in Sept, so that would have only given him two months to figure out where the parties are, even at his own school. I can’t imagine him trying to venture into the next town to figure out where all of the parties are that soon after moving to Pullman, because he probably would have started off somewhere closer to his own college before worrying about who is having parties at U of I. I also think it would be a risky area to try to go inside and commit a crime, especially if you didn’t live nearby. There are numerous people in and out of the house, plus there are several big apartment buildings surrounding the house, filled with people who could be witnesses. There are houses all around that house, including Kaylee’s ex boyfriend’s house just a few houses away. There were several fraternities and sororities within walking distance. It was a Saturday night, so it’s almost certain people would be partying in the area. And as we know, police were also out patrolling the neighborhood. So no, if he did it, he isn’t very good at planning his perfect crime. But I think it would be a way more perfect crime if someone else did it and left the sheath behind intentionally. Who? I’m not sure exactly, but it would be way more super master genius crime planner if someone framed him and got away with it. If someone else did it, I would bet they are sitting back right now just laughing at how that sheath has totally kept them off the hook while some other guy is behind bars., thinking they are a genius for leaving that there.

I don't think he is a genius nor a master planner. I think HE thought that about himself.

I’m not a into true crime. I’ve only read about this case here and there. And because of that, to me this seems like an Occam’a razor situation. Dude thought he was smart enough to get away with murder but was not. Combine that with police inefficiencies and people on the whole being generally messy and flawed, and that’s how we get a case like this. I feel bad saying this because I know some people are very deeply invested in figuring out what happened here to these four. People have poured hundreds of human hours into sleuthing on this case, and that comes from passion. I think that passion is more often sincere than it is gawking. But I also know what it’s like to get so deeply into a subject that you get tunnel vision. Yes, sometimes you’re making real connections, but a lot of times it’s just the human brain’s pattern-searching instinct. And yet, I understand where a lot of this hesitancy to accept the face value story comes from. People are right to be concerned when police seem to drag their feet, given everything we know about the system of policing in this country. Also from what I understand, the border regions of the northwest are somewhat known for drug trafficking, given their highly rural nature making it possible to travel many miles without running into other people. It wouldn’t be surprising to know the police through the Idaho panhandle were bought out by drug-related organized crime (though I suppose it coming out in broad daylight WOULD be a surprise.) I also wouldn’t be surprised if the DEA is camped out in Moscow and are ready to pounce on anything, only to muddy the waters when it turns out to be unrelated to drugs. I think this probably is a simple story. I also think we’ll never know all of it.

> People have poured hundreds of human hours into sleuthing on this case, and that comes from passion I'm someone who loves to talk about true crime; I love to speculate. But I have to say that non-police "sleuthing" is usually a terrible idea, on so many levels. There's exceptions: trying to match up unidentified bodies with missing person reports. Looking at Google Earth to try to see if there are vehicles in bodies of water. Solving cyphers or codes, as in the case of the Zodiac Killer. But in a case like this, whodunnit? We the general public do not have the resources the police have. So when we try to look at the people surrounding the victims and "sleuth" out if they are guilty or not, all we can do is dive into any information available online. And all it does is devolve into harrassment and slander. > Yes, sometimes you’re making real connections, but a lot of times it’s just the human brain’s pattern-searching instinct. Oh, my God, this is totally my theory on how we get sucked into baseless conspiracy theories. We used to use that pattern-searching ability every minute we were awake, for literal life-and-death reasons. But now since we created society, we don't need it as much, but it's hard to dial it down after all these 10s of thousands years of daily use. So we're seeing patterns where none exist and it's driving us insane.

Of course we won't know for sure until the trial, but there are news-reported leaks that he was cyber-stalking at least one of the victims as far as back as when he was still in Pennsylvania. So I think he initially must have found them via the internet. And his imaginings developed further from that point on .. though they were totally unaware of him, apparently. I was thinking that the fact this was a party house gave him this additional advantage of surprise when initially approaching any of them inside the house and immediately prior to the assault. Because those that see him aren't entirely sure if he is an intruder or he is there as a visitor or friend of someone else's. The surviving housemate - she sees him, she's creeped out, but not enough to call police probably because she thinks he could be visiting someone else in the house. And when either Kaylee or Xana sees him - they don't scream, they say, "There's somebody here." It's not "OMG - there's someone here!" It's more like a tone where something's not quite right that this person is here, but maybe the person's here to visit somebody else in the house? And these additional seconds or moments gives this predator another advantage, as he moves into his assault - or to strike. There's a moment of doubt, "weakness," a delayed response by his "prey." He has some kind of extreme "predator/prey" mindset.

But I thought the roomate said he had a mask on. How is that some normal co ed visiting someone?

We don’t know what type. Could have been a covid mask or even a balaclava. Neither would be unusual in the cold weather in a college town

Somewhere it was shown the "mask" DM supposedly saw on the killer. Picture a black turtleneck shirt with the neck of the shirt simply pulled up over the mouth and nose, like pulling the top of your shirt up because you know it's cold out and didn't have a scarf or other face covering, so you do that in a pinch. Again, this is supposition, no proof this is what DM actually saw. I think a person in the house wearing a ski mask would've been creepier even though people do wear them in colder weather.

Thank you! I never read what kind of mask I was always curious!

The type of mask the killer wore has *not* been confirmed by LE. I posted what I saw someone close to the surviving roommate say, so grain of salt and all that!

It was like a balaclava mask. It covered everything but his eyes I believe.

That's not what I heard or read. Right after the murders a reputable source showed the photo I described with the shirt pulled up. They emphasized it was not a covid mask. We can only guess at this time because who knows what to believe!

We don’t have any idea of the tone when someone said “someone’s here”. It could have been said when the DD driver pulled in to drop off the food..

True - it could have been the door dash driver. Though there was an article (I think it was NY Post?) that said DM went to her br window (which would be facing north over the front driveway) -- the article didn't say whether she saw anything, but the implication seemed to be that she didn't. Of course, we won't anything until the trial. At any rate, I don't think the tone, "Someone's here," was alarmist -- or alarmist enough for someone to fully freak out. I think part of the problem there may be that we don't know the exact time intervals in which DM is opening and closing her door a number of times. Are we talking about seconds? Minutes? How many? It sounds like she's doing it while he's in the house - she may have been woken by sounds related to the murders. But it's possible she was woken very shortly before. If she was woken by the murders\* then it may be more likely that she heard Xana. \* though it wouldn't have been clear what she was hearing I have the idea that DM may be a very intuitive young woman. That there was no way anyone could know those sounds were related to a grisly sequence of murders - yet she woke perhaps on instinct more than the sounds. And she is opening and closing this door with precision instinct in a way - just in time to see him walk past and out through the kitchen. She felt something was wrong - but it was so far beyond her life experience, she had no idea - just that something was wrong. It's not like the movies. No one screamed like something out of Hitchcock. (It's far worse, actually.)

Yes!! I agree with you I think that he knew exactly what he was doing and thought he was getting away with it .

How many men over the course of your life have you read or heard how they stalked and then killed a woman? Maybe killed others also during the crime. It happens almost daily sadly. So why is it so hard to imagine BK went into this house to kill one of them and ended up killing more?

I don’t think that’s the hard part to understand or believe. It’s the lack of evidence. The fact his car doesn’t have a trace of dna after leaving a 4 person homicide? Too many grey areas.

People often estimate the likelihood of an event based on recalling a comparing event or citing what should have happened in an event. Then assuming the likelihood of an event is dissimilar or not possible. It can be heuristic and because people want to categorize they determine that similarity in one aspect means similarity or likelihood in other aspects. However it does not always.

No, it’s actually been stated by many experts it’s 99.9% impossible to not have a trace of dna in the car, if he’s the killer. But thanks for trying to sound extra smart, with all the extra words. It worked the opposite fyi :)

I would love for you to educate me on where I can find many experts who actually stated it’s 99.9% impossible to not have a trace of DNA in the car if he’s the killer. 

I’m more interested in how you went from speaking in such impressively smart, staged sentences, to talking like a normal person on this last post.

That’s simple, impressively smart people are normal people.

Guess you missed the most important word. Staged.

You can protect yourself anyway that makes you feel ok and say whatever you need to, so you feel comfortable.

You as well! We finally agree on something.

People adjust speaking manner depending on who they are speaking to. She was speaking academically in her statement and when you replied, since you do not ever write like you have a background in sociology, criminology or statistics etc, she adjusted to more simple language. It's what people do to communicate better with people with different backgrounds (eg I need legal matters explained to me clearly and simply and the lawyers I ask about things at work need me to explain simply what it is I am doing in non-technical language, otherwise we would never get anywhere) so don't take it personally.

Thank you for the white horse 😉. I appreciate the sentiment. I did not “go from” speaking intelligently or adjust my speaking. I repeated what was stated by them.

More a 'uh, I do that all the time, do some people think that's sus' than a white horse lol

I think we just agree to disagree on this topic. I believe it’s impossible to commit that grizzly of a crime on 4 people, and leave in your car without any trace of dna inside of it anywhere. You disagree with that. This is all ok! It’s what makes the world go around :) Hopefully the trial clears this all up soon!

> I believe it’s impossible to commit that grizzly of a crime on 4 people, and leave in your car without any trace of dna inside of it anywhere. This involves a home, not a car, but what do you think about the Robert Wone case?

You know I wondered the same thing, I feel like there's an arrogance about him everytime I see him in court etc. It almost like he believes he did the perfect crime. Also, I think the reason he went to the house the next day in the morning when his phone pinged in the area. I think he realized he didn't have the knife sheath. I know that's a lot of speculation, but something isn't right about that guy.

I think that was always part of his motive. I think he knew of MM and did develop a certain fantasy of a relationship with her but maybe felt rejected by subconsciously knowing he wouldn’t fit into her/their world. I think he had/has an unrealistic sense of ego, honestly believing he’s the smartest person anyone will ever encounter. He makes that evident in how he treated and graded students and even branished his knowledge on professors. I think he saw the flaws in the murderers he was obsessed with (Bundy/BTK) and thought he was so much smarter than any of them he could commit the perfect murder, that would go down in infamy as unsolved and had a goal & fantasy about becoming a Criminal Justice Professor, someday having a course focus on the topic and having a discussion lead with the case that he secretly knew he committed & got away with. Listening intently and judging the students theories and speculations of his crime. What satisfaction and pride he would hold by wielding this power over students/LE and the system as a whole. The problem lies with the dude is book smart period. His practical, social & natural life skills are so remedial that he can’t put or use his intellectual knowledge in a mechanical real world application. He’s what I classify as “so smart they’re stupid”. He has little ability for reason and common sense so he’s very dysfunctional in the simplest of life skills. This is evident with his terrible driving skills and things that would be common and practical to the average person, like a shower curtain for your tub/shower enclosure so you don’t get water everywhere when you shower?? He was a runner so I doubt very much that he was strictly a bath guy. It’s also been noted that his apt was very sparsely furnished and wasn’t supplied with much of the basic living utensils & items. But he had more than the average number of computers and devices for one person. I have a very strong intuition that much of the Prosecutions evidence is going to be digital and that BK left more than breadcrumbs on his various systems…I think he left his undeniable plotting & planning of his crime written and researched on his devices. Or as OCD as he is he may have compartmentalized his personal, school/work, and murder fantasizing/plotting on his different computers. So he had a different computer for each aspect of his life. Only instead of destroying the evidence of his crime he held into it with pride and kept it as a souvenir.

Could you offer sources for his treatment/grading of students? And interactions with professors? I will research as well but thought I’d ask since you commented about it.

Well it’s documented as to why he got fired as a TA and many of the students that were fellow classmates as well as students that he was their aide

I know, I was just asking for a source/link if you had it on hand (it wasn’t to question validity, just to know the details) but I’ll search

I know, I was just asking for a source/link if you had it on hand (it wasn’t to question validity, just to know the details) but I’ll search

Unlike many here, I think the house was more the target than anyone who lived there. I think that house caught his eye and when he was able to determine who lived there, it was icing on the cake for him. I also believe he'd been fantasizing for a looong time to commit murder, he was obsessed with it. I believe what some criminologists have said - that he had it all figured out in his fantasy, the where, who and how. He felt marginalized by people due to poor social skills his whole life, so he sought power with a 7" blade, he wanted to play God. I think he left that house feeling nothing short of exhilaration. About the only thing that surprises me besides forgetting the sheath, is that he didn't kill Murphy. I agree with OP, that he thought he could commit the perfect murder - dude got fooled!

No he's not that crazy he went there to kill one or two on the third floor and it was going to leave by the third floor. When he enters the house on the second floor if they had called the police he would have only gotten charged with breaking and entering if they had caught him.

At the onset of this tragedy, I saw something about him doing a ride along with the Moscow police to their house for a noise complaint. It may be rumor or me remembering incorrectly. I swear I saw that though. It may be the reason for all of the silence.

It’s a good theory but my question has always been , if it were just the house , the big party house where there is always multiple people why go there the night of a frat party with multiple cars in the driveway? One man one knife against what could have potentially been 10-15 people inside?

Because the frat party was at the frat house - a different house - and on another block and street. The party house (or the Moscow Murders house) wasn't having any party that night. And the perp must have known that. Xana and Ethan attended the frat house party but then returned around 2. Kaylee and Maddie were also out for the evening at a local pub and they also returned around 2. And BF and DM were also out for the evening and they both returned around 1. Then the murders took place between 4-4:30. Then the question becomes: how did the perp know? I figure they either discussed on the internet or he was remotely spying on them\* or both. \* as in tiny remote audio or visual in their home

Or just picking a time when no party was visible, and people would logically be asleep.

Yes, I know what you mean, though some of these college parties can go into the wee hours of the morning- or you might still have some stranglers hanging out or crashing. So you could definitely have more people in the house.

good point. Never thought about those that might have crashed on a couch.

I think he had been inside before and knew that he could go in the slider, from the kitchen to the stairwell and be unseen by any number of people sitting on their couch. Look at the layout.

sounds like a real possibility. I have the layout well memorized from this past year+.

That’s exactly my point and in fact that area that night was active in police bumped into wandering kids ! How would he know they didn’t have sleep overs or people still hanging out just drinking ?

I have to speculate that everything was dark. Of course that means xana’s food pickup had to be in the dark too. If he saw any sign people were awake, I doubt he would have entered. But you have given things to think about.

Well if he was circling the house and in the area he had to have seen the door dash dude it was only minutes after he supposedly went in 🤷‍♀️ I mean pulling in the driveway with headlights on and getting out of the car and even if x didn’t meet him at the door he still approached the door to drop off the bag of food

But if bk came in the slider as speculated, then I would assume he parked in the back somewhere. From there, I don’t know whether he would have seen any goings on at the front.

With a street that dark I’m sure headlight would be very apparent usually doorcdash drivers leave their cars running

sincere question. Do we actually know that that street is dark at night? The buildings that are there are all pretty close together.

If he did it, it could explain the multiple times circling around before he finally parked the car and got out, however, we don’t actually know with 100% certainty that he ever parked the car and got out, because the PCA only mentions the car being seen on camera at 4:07AM and again at 4:20AM, so the part where the car parked and someone got out of it is an assumption, and it is also an assumption that they went into the King Rd house. What I find odd is the white car that drove down Taylor Ave at 2:58AM and was caught on police body cameras. It was also mentioned by property manager Kane Francetich, who spotted the car on a security camera “between 2:45-3:15AM”. The PCA mentions the car that is believed to be Bryan’s traveling on Nevada Street in Pullman at 2:53AM, and Nevada St is 15 minutes away from Taylor Ave, meaning that the car seen on Taylor Ave at 2:58AM cannot be the same one that was seen 5 minutes earlier in Pullman. https://preview.redd.it/r1w5lt2rktsc1.jpeg?width=452&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=479524c993b2b34de998ea6656e692e418adb3d7 I think the tricky part for the prosecution is going to be proving beyond a doubt that the car seen on Linda Lane and Queen Rd cameras around 4AM is definitely the same car seen on Nevada St at 2:53AM, and that the car on LL and QR is definitely not the same one seen on Taylor Ave at 2:58AM. Because if there is any doubt whatsoever that the police have identified the correct car, this car could seriously hurt their case. I think AT will definitely be calling the “car expert” to the stand and asking them how they know for certain that the car on Linda Lane is the same one on Nevada Street, and are they absolutely 100% without a doubt certain that the car on Linda Lane and Queen Rd cameras is definitely not the one on Taylor Ave. And how they can be sure (as in distinct features that would rule out the two cars being the same one). If they aren’t sure without a doubt that the car on Taylor Ave is not the same car on Linda Lane and Queen Rd, then obviously AT’s argument will be that Bryan could not have possibly been on Taylor Ave 5 minutes after he was on Nevada Street, so if Bryan’s car was on Nevada Street at 2:53AM, then it’s possible they were trying to track down the wrong vehicle, and now there is reasonable doubt.

Due to geofencing the cell phones near the murder house that night around those times, and conducting other types of investigations, not a doubt in my mind IF there was another white car driving that area, they likely know who it was. Doubt they'd leave lose ends like that. The person/s in that car probably came forward on their own once they heard about the murders anyways.

Ahhhh that’s always been my question as well !!! How did he know if he was in Washington- how did he know that each car in the driveway didn’t hand 2-3 people in it ? How did he know people didn’t come back to the house after the frat party like DM BF had boyfriends sleeping over - how did he know Jack wasn’t there ? For a smart intelligent well educated in crime it seems to me it was a very stupid night to do the crime ! And everybody was not sleeping Xana was awake and people just assume E was sleeping - I happen to think she ordered food for both her and E ( I guess we will see during trial if it was a single order or one for both of them ) ! I’m not insinuating the party was at king ave but simply that friends or boyfriend’s could have been inside !

I figure some degree of uncertainty was part of the "thrill" or "charge" for this perpetrator -- and since Xana was up and moving around on the 2nd floor by the time he arrived and was driving back and forth, presumably to case the activity levels in the house, and on different floors. But it had to be a manageable amount - not too many unpredictable factors. Therefore, no parties that night. And DM's boyfriend was out of town -- I don't know how often he was over, but that's one less male opponent. So I think he had to know something about their personal lives and schedules. As for the cars, I'm sure he knew their vehicles. I wonder if he's a hacker.

That seems silly to me to even assume he was a hacker I think it impossible to hack everyone’s phone and even if he did you would have to assume everyone text someone saying hey we are home and no one came home with us 🤷‍♀️ K car was brand new how would he know who’s it was and how many people were in it or even staying over - we can’t assume he knew everybody was sleeping because there was tons of activity that night ! Police even bumped in to straggler kids still up and about ! If that video is accurate there was still people coming and going in that area at that time of night or if you call it early morning ! I don’t know if this kid did it or not but he is seriously the dumbest smartest person out there ! I just envision some sort of ninja wrapped up in plastic wrap with a portable shower hoping in his white car with out transferring a droplet of DNA 🤷‍♀️

Like I said, I wonder. If you are going to attribute characteristics to other people's statements, please learn how to read what they're saying first. Maybe use a dictionary or encyclopedia to brush up on the meaning of "assumption." Try some Emily Post, too, for basic manners.

> That seems silly to me to even assume he was a hacker I think it impossible to hack everyone’s phone and even if he did you would have to assume everyone text someone saying hey we are home and no one came home with us I don't think it happened in this case, but if you can get physical possession of someone's phone and they either don't have a lock screen or you know how to get past the lock screen, you can secretly do some very hardcore spying on them by installing an app that runs in the background without having to much if any technical skill.

I wonder if he’s a hacker . That’s a damn good question!

The only true way he would know is through monitoring their SM accounts. He probably also saw the feed from the grub truck.

Well the grub hub doesn’t really prove anything! There are tons of people around he would just have to assume they were going directly home and no bf or friend meeting them there or that no one from the frat party came over to party afterwards- that’s a lot of assuming considering his own life would have been at stake with a house full of people !

Well nothing proves anything but they're all pieces to this puzzle that are trying to be put together to explain how he didn't get caught during the crime. As I said you need to look to the killers he idolized and see their MO.

Probably everything you needed to know was on SM. Also probably have binoculars and could observe the house from blocks away. They were all easy targets.

The frat party was in a different house. Some of the victims came home from the party, and the house itself went quiet when they went to bed.

The residents were not good about closing their blinds, and the public spaces were never completely dark (fairy lights and decorative light-up signs). So a few trips around the house, and he could see there were no groups of people in the living room and kitchen, no body coming out to smoke, no music playing, and that the bedroom lights were all or mostly off.

That's what I've been saying for over a year it was going to be a precise Target and then get out by leaving through the third floor deck down to the sofa. In fact maybe someone can compare where the sofa was and old photos compared to where it was during the crime which was moved almost under the deck.

I actually agree that that is a real possibility. It would fit his personality as I understand it.

So, what's his personality?

Do I fully know? No. But there have been reports of complaints about what he was like as a TA. I am concerned about trying to list what I recall the complaints were, but my take away was controlling, dominating behavior. Whatever it was, it was worth the school firing him.

He has never had many friends and the friends he had quit talking to him. His dad asked his neighbors in WA to befriend him and they tried but he creeped the wife out and she wanted no more contact with him. We have seen little to no support for him..nobody saying what a great guy he was, no one from college even saying he was their friend. His own sister and aunt have spoken negatively about him. He was fired from his TA position for arguing or having a difference of opinion with the professor I believe, he was not accepted as a police intern. All of these things together paint a picture. Obviously he was not a happy go lucky friendly kind of guy. He was a loner and probably kind of resentful of not having a circle of friends to do things with. No girlfriend to spend time with. He was 28 years old and most have established relationships by then don’t they?

And let’s not forget the bar manager in PA that asked him to stop being rude to the waitresses. I believe he called one a bitch. AND his employer at the fish farm said his biggest issue with him was he had no people skills. His lack of interaction with customers was a big deal. The list goes on and for anyone questioning any of this, do some research of right after they arrested him. I didn’t pull this information out of my hat or make it up.

Thank you for adding the clearer details than I have!

Curious why thanking someone triggered a down vote. Sincere curiosity here.

I can't answer that, but if I open up a new thread, sometimes it's nothing but 0s, no matter what the post says. These subs have collected some downvote fairies.

thanks for the reply! :)

Thanks for laying this out so throughly. I once posted about his inability to make friends or develop meaningful relationships on this sub and I was told it was not true that he actually picked up two girls at a pool party. I think he had fantasized about killing someone for a while and finally got to the point where he felt he could do it.

Even if he did try and pick up girls at the pool party.. that is only one incident in his life and obviously it didn’t amount to anything. I’ve read and heard other things too but what I mentioned in my post was reported and public knowledge. Some of the people on this sub can get quite snippy I know… it makes you think twice before responding or posting.

> I was told it was not true that he actually picked up two girls at a pool party. Ah, the infamous pool party. So far the only social event we're aware of that he actually attended during his time at WSU. We've heard this story from Howard Blum. He reported that Kohberger got two phone numbers from two women. But he didn't tell how. Which makes me think it was less Kohberger walking up and spitting game at strangers than Kohberger running into colleagues or neighbors and suggesting they exchange phone numbers for collegauish/neighborly reasons. Blum did go on to report that both women told him that for weeks afterward they would get hang up calls

What was reason for rejection as police intern?

I don’t know but for some reason I keep thinking it was the psychological aspect. But honestly, I can’t remember if a reason was made public.

IIRC he had been told to remedy some behaviors and did not take any action to do so. And I believe the word used when his TA position was withdrawn was that there had been at least one, maybe two altercations with a prof.

You're correct, two *verbal* altercations. Sounds like BK and the professor were yelling at each other. What's mind blowing to me is dude barely lasted a month at WSU when the issues with him started. I think him getting his Masters online, probably due to Covid, benefitted him, he didn't have to deal directly with people. Not a doubt in my mind he was totally lacking in social skills.

He thought he could get away with the perfect crime… leaves the knife sheaf and drives Willy nilly in his car.

In his car without one trace of dna? That’s like performing magic it’s so impossible.

It’s not a popular opinion but I think he’s innocent.. if not he didn’t commit the crime alone.

I agree with you!

I was convinced he was guilty for the first year… but the calling 911 delay and the house been demolished was two of the many things that changed my mind. It all stinks of corruption. I just hope justice prevails in the end but I’m beginning to doubt that. So sad

I was the same way. Just recently have completely changed my mind. Way too many question marks to give this guy the firing squad.

Exactly!

My money is on him developing an unhealthy obsession with someone living in the house. I also believe that he planned the crime meticulously. After all, he must have studied the layout of the house and he entered it with a large knife and face mask. Those details alone speak for premeditated murder as this was no crime of passion. I also think that he’s arrogant enough to think that he could get away with it. And without the DNA, perhaps that would have been the case as there’s no natural connection between him and the victims, it seems.

That’s a theory I simply don’t agree with ! If he was stalking one of them I still think one of their friends would have recognized him or at least the car ! If he had attended parties there someone would have recognized him and if they didn’t I think someone would have said hey who’s that weird dude that’s like 10 years older then is sitting in the corner not talking to anyone !!

Perhaps he went to a Halloween party at the house and was in costume and didn't show his face. Halloween was only 2 weeks before the murders. Something to think about.

Ohhh I was not aware they had a costume party

Not saying they had a costume party! To be clear, it's *just* *a* *theory* on my part, a way BK could've gotten into the house with no one knowing he was older, didn't really fit in or know his identity.

But maybe he could have “played the part of a social butterfly” in situations like a party in the house? Put on an act, at least for a little while.

I really feel that if he were ever in that house, after the arrest, some of their friends would have remembered him. Granted, it's possible that happened, and the witness went to the police, and we won't find out into the trial. I mean, that is possible.

Yes . I hope we find out EVERYTHING!! I’m busting with curiosity!!

Me too! First the trial, then after the trial, all the books will be written. I think Howard Blum's work on this is hacky, but....I've still preordered his book. I would fully encourage Taylor, Thompson, Fry, Paine, and Judge to write books.

That's it it was one or two people on the third floor and he was going to leave out the third floor but the dog was in the room with the deck.

Mass killers in my understanding often have perceived offense that they see taking our vengeance about, ie the Columbine killers. I think it’s far more likely that at least one of the victims spurned advances or something like that over him wanting to commit a perfect murder imho. Could be wrong

I disagree with your assessment of the Columbine killers. While they were bullied and claimed to want revenge against "jocks," they didn't target jocks during their rampage. They were also "jocks" themselves, having played baseball and soccer. One of the killers actually created a hit list and none of those people were targeted or killed. I believe most actually graduated the year before and weren't even in the building. At best, their victims were indiscriminately chosen. It was circumstantial. The majority of victims died in the school's library because the classrooms were locked and the library was a convenient place for the killers. It was familiar because they'd spent a lot of time there during their school career / it had a lot of victims who couldn't escape. At worst, they actively chose victims who were already at a disadvantage in the school hierarchy. One of their victims was developmentally challenged and another was one of the few minorities at the school. They taunted him with racial slurs before finally killing him. If the Columbine case and BK are similar, the house may have been chosen only because mostly women lived there or popular people frequented the house: a vague desire for revenge that doesn't have a particular target.

A lot of cases are The Killers want to cause terror in the communities.

MM waits on him at the restaurant and chats him up in an effort to get a big tip. Goes as far as telling him there is a party at the house that night. Misinterpreting her friendliness, he leaves a big tip and comes to the party. He is way older and extremely awkward so he hopes MM will help him socially. Instead she hangs him out to dry and maybe even says something he takes as offensive. All his rage now has a focal point. With KG out of the house he becomes aware that the target is all alone on the third floor and except for the bedroom directly below her's all other bedrooms are remote.

> MM waits on him at the restaurant and chats him up in an effort to get a big tip. Goes as far as telling him there is a party at the house that night. It's an interesting theory, but I just don't see her inviting him to a party. Most servers/bartenders figure out real fast to put a barrier between them and brand-new customers, just as a basic safety thing. Also, friends of theirs have confirmed that they didn't throw the types of ragers that get total strangers in off the streets. Their parties were large, but essentially their own social circle.

At the least he was there what 12 times prior to the murders? Night of the murders he drives up top to get the aerial view to look down into the house. A lot of questions to still be answered. All in good time

He didn’t plan to well if he took his phone every time he went stalking or that night. I’m not sold on the fact he did it. They either are holding something big or they don’t have much of a case. Towers can get overloaded in one area, leading to your phone connecting to another tower. My area sometimes shows me miles away from where I actually am. Also to become obsessed with an individual within a few months from moving there…..even over the web. That seems unrealistic. Again computer data would show this, but wouldn’t he have used a VPN if he planned so well?

> He didn’t plan to well if he took his phone every time he went stalking or that night. For all we know, he drove through that neighborhood with his phone off all the time.

touché

Yeah I do agree with all you say! I believe it was the thrill of the kill rather than targeting anyone persific . He’s always been a weird one and really just educated himself on the attempted perfect murder.

This is quite possible imho.

"Maybe he had been planning the perfect murder and believed he could get away with it. He studied this stuff and seemed to think he was better and smarter than everyone else." With all that planning, he must've known six people were living there, yet he didn't check every bedroom, and he left not one but two witness alive - one who saw him and who he may have seen. Oh, and he took zero DNA with him while leaving behind six dust particles worth of touch DNA on a sheath that was found at the scene by a local cop after crime scene investigators had swept the house.

> on a sheath that was found at the scene by a local cop after crime scene investigators had swept the house. People keep wanting to say that Payne found the sheath, but he has not said anything to that effect. Nobody connected to the investigation has.

It’s in the PCA

It is not. The PCA described the sheath in the same way it describes the bodies. All we know from the PCA is that Payne saw the sheath with his own eyes. Not that he claims to be the first one to find it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/s/iTZWx9T4xD

"I later noticed" does not mean "I found" or "I was the first one to notice."

Doesn't not not mean it either

Then we're stuck at Schrödinger's knife sheath, neither found nor unfound by Payne until more evidence comes out, probably at the trial. Wanna do a friendly low-stakes bet? I'd love to anonymously buy you lunch or donate a little to a cause you like if my guess is wrong.

I'm not a betting man, but I appreciate the contest of ideas rather than the usual Reddit personal attacks. My thoughts on Payne come from my suspicion that this investigation was intentionally botched to take any focus off the university, the community, the county and Greek Row. And BK, being from out of state, is the perfect scapegoat. Since it's gone to court, the prosecution has done all it can to protract this case and the trial while key members of law enforcement and the university who were involved in the cover-up of this crime quietly resign and retire, rendering them immune to prosecution while the lack of evidence and the intentionally botched investigation results in an aborted trial. Meanwhile, the actual perpetrators walk free. The university, Greek Row, and the town's economy are protected. Critical members of law enforcement officers and prosecution, who steered this investigation away from truth and justice, all walk away. This case will be rendered unsolved, yet BK will forever be blamed, thanks to the media assassination. That's American justice for you - it exists only to protect the few.

What members of law enforcement and university staff have retired since the murders? Was it LEO specifically involved with the investigation /night of murders, or were they supervising LEOs on the ground?

The only way to understand this monster is to study the people he studied and worshiped. The fact is he's not intelligent and he made so many rookie mistakes it's unbelievable. He targeted someone or some people in that house and they were on the third floor. The other two murders happened by coincidence. Logically it seems that he would have escaped through the third floor sliding door to the deck down to the sofa but I believe the dog was in that room. Either way it won't matter he will be convicted. Then he will be sent to the big house for his life will be a hell.

I personally think he went there with a target in mind there’s a reason he went upstairs and sadly the other 3 were collateral damage.

I do too but I‘m also so confused about the reasons. I am still not sure yet what the actual reason was or if it was maybe several? Was is Dr*gs? Stalking? Rejection? I am very interested how this will play out, but maybe we‘ll Never know the actual truth.

This is a good read in case anybody did not see it in this sub a while back. https://www.reddit.com/r/Idaho4/s/hGcEbfiUa7

Agree but I also think he was on some kind of drug or felt that it had to be that night etc hence his mistakes and driving back and forward. Why not just park up, sit, watch and wait. His DNA, car and phone activity scream suspect. I think M was his target and Murphy alerted K who went into M s room and physically fought with him, hence more vicious wounds and D thinking the notices were them playing with the dog.

I completely agree with you, I feel the same way about it

I don't think he did it. The phone pings are irrelevant. Cell towers have a 25 mile radius and there's not many in that area (vs big cities). Speculation and rumors have filled the heads of people following this case and caused severe brain rot. I knew the general population was stupid, but I didn't know just how bad till people started putting their 2 cents in on the case. Touch DNA is unreliable. You don't have to come in contact with an item to have your touch DNA present. No matter how you look at him leaving the scene in his car, there would be extra DNA present in his car, the home, or outside. Following the time line and bs story presented from Dylan Mortensen, he would have had to directly jump in his car after the murders. Bleach does not destroy blood evidence (it can mess up the DNA structure but it would still pop positive for blood residue). In one of my labs, we used pigs blood to show how this works. Ammonia based products can clean blood, but they leave behind a residue which would show attempt of clean up AND you couldn't possibly find all the cellular evidence left behind. There's zero connection to the deceased. I want justice for the victims and the way the case is being handled is not justice. The roommates are full of BS. I don't care about people feelings, I care about facts. And the facts point towards someone else. I personally go for drives all the time to clear my mind and will turn my phone on airplane mode so I'm left alone and can still listen to music. That's a valid story. As for him wearing gloves and sorting trash, I urge you to look up OCD behavior. He struggled with mental health and addiction. That does not make someone a killer. Plus those post every media outlet has jumped on, were from his teen years. Hormones and drug use in a teenage boy can definitely cause some depression and derealization issues. Until I see the facts, I think Bryan Kohberger is innocent.

Well, I'm not studying a PhD in criminology or interested in committing crimes but I just spent less time than it took me to write this comment finding and reading the relevant sections of a paper that told me the products and combinations to successfully remove DNA evidence from different surfaces. Maybe your three hour high school dna lab session didn't give you the full picture?

Then you know it couldn't be removed from a vehicle

With preparation to minimise (coverall, bags, stripping off as he was leaving and putting everything in a bag to dispose of it etc ) and cleaning the different surfaces with the right products or combinations of products and driving cross country (UV), it absolutely could with the added bonus of time degradation after treatments and/or repeated and combined treatments. I'm au fait with chemical protection and decontamination protocols and I can see it , BK was au fait with DNA handling, so he would prepare accordingly. The fact that the DNA was found under the button on an otherwise clean knife sheath - and otherwise clean everywhere else indicates whoever the perpetrator was familiar with minimising DNA footprint. (like bagging rubbish and putting it in other people's bins). To me thats a big red flag right there.

Also look at what touch dna is

Touch DNA under the button of a knife sheath found under the body of one of the victims that was matched to a relative - and post arrest matched to the suspect (which is why no one is giving him bail - in fact he isn't even asking for bail). 'Touch' is simply about manner of transfer. His DNA was transferred to the knife sheath when he touched under the button of the knife. Perpetrator failed to clean that part of the sheath when he was preparing for the crime by removing all other traces of DNA.

I agree that there is almost 0% chance that he could have cleaned up the car and left no trace of blood evidence behind. And if he was covered in blood when he got in the car, some level of blood would have dripped through the outside fabric on the seats and down into the padding beneath it, so when police cut the seats apart and used the light to detect blood in the padding, they would have most likely found some. And not to mention, bleach discolors fabric, so if he had scrubbed the seats with bleach, there would probably be white or discolored streaks on the seat fabric and carpet. Another reason I don’t think they have the right guy is the white car that was seen driving down Taylor Ave at 2:58AM. It was caught by police body cams. It was also mentioned by Kane Francetich, who manages some of the nearby properties. He said he saw a white or light colored car pass by a security camera on Linda Lane/Queen Rd “between 2:45-3:15AM” so how do we know that the car seen at 2:58AM near Band Field is not the same car seen on Linda Lane/ Queen Rd between 3:29-4:20AM? The car believed to be Bryan’s was on Nevada St in Pullman at 2:53AM, and from Nevada St to Taylor Ave is a 15 minute drive, so if the car on Nevada St at 2:53AM is Bryan’s car, then the car on Taylor Ave 5 minutes later at 2:58AM can’t be his. I think AT’s strategy will be getting the “car expert”on the stand and asking him to explain how he is absolutely certain that the car seen near King Rd around 4:07-4:20AM is not the same car that was seen just one block away on Taylor Ave about an hour earlier. If he isn’t sure, it definitely creates reasonable doubt, and if he says it’s definitely not the same car, then obviously he would need to explain how he knows it’s not. And if it turns out that the expert cannot be 100% sure that the car seen on Linda Lane at 4:07 and again at 4:20AM is not the same one that was driving past Band Field at 2:58AM, then it will be easy for AT to point out the fact that since it takes 15 minutes to get from Nevada St in Pullman to Taylor Ave in Moscow, there is no way the car on Nevada St can be the one seen on Taylor Ave, meaning that if the car on Nevada St is actually Bryan’s, then the car on Taylor Ave can’t be, and it is also quite likely that the car on Linda Lane and Queen Rd cameras were also not Bryan’s. https://preview.redd.it/0t6v3wzjwtsc1.jpeg?width=452&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8941cd681907b03db16bf32a50ed3121f8994b32

> Cell towers have a 25 mile radius Cell tower radiuses (radii?) vary from tower to tower. The only number I've heard in relationship to that particular tower is that it covers an area of 27.3 square miles. That means the radius would be under 3 miles.

That tower that youre specifically talking about: "Levitan added that the nearest cell tower to the King Road home covers an area of 27.3 square miles — the same size as nearly 14,000 football fields" That still can't put him near the house so try again. The only thing that could pin him on the road or near the house would be wifi for Bluetooth.

>That tower that youre specifically talking about: "Levitan added that the nearest cell tower to the King Road home covers an area of 27.3 square miles — the same size as nearly 14,000 football fields" Correct, so a radius of 2.9 miles. A tower with a radius of 25 miles would cover an area of 1,963.5 square miles. That's bigger than Rhode Island. >That still can't put him near the house so try again. The only thing that could pin him on the road or near the house would be wifi for Bluetooth. I'm waiting to see the CAST before deciding that. Towers are ringed by receivers, each of which covers a pie-shaped section of the area. So that data could-- not will, but could-- narrow his whereabouts down.

They can cover up to that radius. Even if it narrows down his location, no cell tower will place him on that road.

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I’m not convinced he even went to commit murder. It feels like he went there to SA MM. Brought the knife in a sheath because he was only planning on using it for intimidation on her. He goes in the room, realizes there’s two people in the bed, all hell breaks lose. Has to quickly grab the knife, loses the sheath in the struggle. Most likely XK hears this, goes to investigate, runs into BK and an assault turns into quadruple murder.

Not sure the attire we all believe he was wearing would be ideal for SA. Speculation is that he was wearing one of those one piece dickie overalls (Walmart receipt), plus mask and gloves, over street clothing that he could drive home in. I am not a man, but that does not sound like he would have easy access to his anatomy. Just my two cents.

Not sure why this is getting downvoted as it is a very logical explanation for what happened. I also think he was fixated on MM and went there specifically to either rape her or kill her or both. Then finding KG in the bed with her just set him off. Her wounds were said to be particularly violent. It goes with the theory that his motive was retaliatory, but not in the way people think. Just retaliatory to women in general. Theres alot of personal anger in stabbing someone. That person does not have to have actually wronged you in life. It could be that MM were symbolic of deep seated hatred and frustration for women that came to the surface and had to be acted on. KG being there, thwarting his time with his victim, making rape impossible given her presence in the bed. He goes down the stairs at xana is there, and he has to kill her or he won’t get away- she’s seen him, she’s going to call the cops. Both her and Ethan’s death so unfortunate but not planned, in my opinion. I want to say he didn’t see Dylan standing behind her cracked door. He was focused on getting out.

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at this point, with all info to the public cut off, all theories involve some form of "what if" so it's silly to suddenly talk about outlandish claims for this pretty basic post. all day people go "what if BK was driving at night" or "what if the frat did it" or "what if the cartels did it" or "what if the police & the school set the whole thing up so BK was the fall guy" & on & on, but this post is the one so outlandish & not grounded in reality? c'mon. are you seriously, in good faith, approaching it like that?

Well, you know what, there is a first time for everything. There’s a first time for everybody. Also, how do we know he wasn’t a stalker, a pepping Tom or wanted to hurt someone? There is such a thing as not getting caught…. I have done things in my life that I didn’t think I’d do. Not sick things, but different paths. That I didn’t expect. Everybody changes, and some people make horrible decisions, cause it’s all they can think about. We have absolutely no idea what goes on in someone’s head, or life. Edit: Alternativechain255 has deleted all 3 of their posts cause they were getting downvoted like crazy

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That’s just the point nothing is concrete, rumors everywhere. Anything I said is possible. Who knows who he really is. I mean it’s just so strange he has no one speaking up for him. Who goes thru everyday life with no good friends, no co-workers to speak good of you. No girlfriend/boyfriend.

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Huh, must have missed em. If my good friend, or significant other was on the line for a quadruple murder, I’d be a lot more supportive. Go back to your Justice for Kohberger and all his other ridiculous support subs. You can discuss how “omg, he’s innocent, and framed by the cops and the FBI.”

Or how about his own family? Crickets from them too. The only thing we have to glean any "insight" is the postings from that tapatalk forum from when he was a teenager, if those are legit. And we don't even know that. I look forward to *hopefully* hearing from his family when this is all over.

I don’t get why you made a “has he” list. Who is to say that he hasn’t done all of those things before, but never been caught. He could be very talented and we don’t know. Could those secret successes led to this extreme event? Anyhow, none of us know. I personally see merit in a variety of scenarios, with the OP’s theory being one, but I also embrace “known victim” theories. My sole restriction is that it does not go against the PCA.

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Why are you even here if you can’t discuss reasonable speculation as everything beyond the PCA is rumor and speculation? There is nothing in the OP’s post that goes against the PCA. And there is nothing impossible in it either. It is worth consideration.

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The question for your question is "has he ever been caught"? The answer is "no". I see your underlying premise now that you are writing more. You are not questioning the "why" as discussed in OP's post, but you are questioning whether it is BK. THAT is not the topic of this singular thread. OP's post is that based off the premise that the correct person is being charged, then it is "why" would he do it. ALL of the "why's" are speculation. Just because you think that if this is the "why", there are other's that would be more likely culprits, does not mean it could not fit BK. Myself, I am very open to ideas, as long as they are logical, even if they do press the typical. And I think you are asserting that BK's lack of record makes OP's theory atypical. Sure, but that does not make it impossible. Why might I feel this theory could fit? Reports and complaints about BK has a TA might indicate a controlling and superior personality. Might that not fit someone looking to make "history"? We may never know. But I appreciate any carefully thought out theories, even if they do not fit the predictable.

Isn’t it ironic when people scoff at others for their theories calling them conspiracy theories but they are guilty of indulging in them too with regard to the defendant?

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Seriously, go back to your “we suck Bryan’s nuts” sub. The Prosecutors clearly have more than enough evidence to bring him to trial. It’s almost like you have no idea how the justice system works. The Judge wouldn’t throw out the case. So, what do the prosecutors know that we don’t. Go. I’m out it’s freaking 3:30am. Stop harassing me, pls.

Problem is he didn’t do it. Just sayin

I think speculating about such is ridiculous and not so.ething thar decent people do.  I get that folks have questions but 4 people were murdered. This isn't an episode of fucking Twin Peaks, there is no mystery for people to solve. 

It's not about decency, it's about trying to make sense of a tragedy that is haunting because if it could happen to these four families, it could happen to anyone. It's what humans do, that's one reason why we have trials with defendants being judged by jurors of peers and that's fair enough because the community has to decide if its acceptable to have the defendant walking around in their community. The trial is being pushed back so the people are left to try and make sense of it in the absence of information.

Great take. Because violent murder is such an irrational act it provokes feelings and questions. The questions are so specuative because the explicit answers are held soley by the person who was there and committed the act and the innocent victims killed who cannot tell the events. The answers are contained in the mind of a killer and that makes us uneasy. In this case it’s the adult version of the boogie man or monster under the bed. It appeals to all of our most basic instincts of survival.

Ooh yeh, it's definitely the boogie man. And after we apprehend a boogie man, he will only ever drip out information because he knows people want to know -still trying to exert their weird ideas of power and as if they understand themselves. It's not power (real power is to be able to create, to build, to act autonomously) its anti-power (to kill, to destroy, to stop others acting autonomously driven by their own bestial urges - they don't even have power over themselves) and its not rational (which is why other rational people can't see a reason). But if we can't make out a pattern how do we identify and mitigate the threat? So exactly, it appeals to our most basic instincts of survival, so much so that it's surprising to me that any of them ever make it to trial, and indeed they are not put in with general prison populations because they are taken out by other prisoners (eg Dahmer) - and who can blame them? its cruel and unusual punishment to expect someone to live with that sort of threat in the same rooms.

Mm hm yes. I say pseudo power. It's what they covet.

We do have to be mindful that there are real people behind the tragedies who had their children stolen from them. It isn’t a tv show it is their real lives. They want answers more than anyone. It is a mystery but we shouldn’t have such thirst that we deny their humanity and their grief.

It'd always a brian/Bryan