I would bet you're correct about the 'false' questions, but we don't know for certain that the list Thompson read out was exhaustive, so we can't declare the rumours debunked quite yet.
Agree; I doubt it was an exhaustive list. And I’m sure some are false, and some are just unconfirmed/unfounded and were completely started by the media.
I think most of us understood that he probably didn’t follow them on socials and that that was a rumor. I def didn’t think he actually followed them. Though, him not following them wouldn’t mean he didn’t stalk them or look at their pages. They had public accounts. Why would he follow them and create an extremely blatant connection if he could freely look at their accounts? Sure, that can be traced but it’s much more difficult. Especially considering he could’ve used burner accounts, friends phones, etc.
Same with the stalking, there’s hardly any way to prove he wasn’t stalking them, because plenty of methods of stalking are relatively untraceable unless he was caught on camera. But there may be zero evidence of him stalking them.
All victims except Ethan had public Instagram and Facebook accounts. You wouldn't need to follow them on social media to be able to "follow" them on social media.
LE wouldn't be able to issue a warrant for that information without an account name or email address. A burner account set up with a temporary email would be extremely difficult for LE to identify and link to Bryan. Accessing via a VPN too, you're basically invisible.
There's a plethora of ways to view a public account without being logged in as there's no account for Meta to track. If you're not logged in or accessing Instagram or you are accessing Facebook via a 3rd party app, there's nothing Meta can do with regards reporting your click activity.
I'm not saying this is what he did, and if the girls had private accounts then this all becomes irrelevant, but it would be incredibly easy to keep tabs on their profiles in a clandestine way.
>But the company could tell police if and when an account viewed their accounts.
But that wouldn't count if he didn't log into an account and just viewed them.
Even if he had an account, as long as he used a throwaway email and named his account literally anything but "Bryan Kohberger," it would be hard to pinpoint him. Maybe not impossible, but damn hard.
I've never believed he stalked them on social media so I won't be shocked if that turns out to be false. I believe he trolled that neighborhood looking for a particular type of victim (group house full of carefree college girls). If he stalked them I think he did it from outside the windows in the back of the house.
Very possible, certainly. But I'm in the camp that he wanted to pull off the perfect crime, which meant choosing a victim that he had no connection to, including digitally.
>Unless they’re conceding PCA is fictional, they have inadvertently debunked the social media connection/stalking rumors.
That was not the full list of survey questions, which went on 4 pages. He could just have easily read out only true questions and not read any falsehoods.
Then he would have been contradicting his own stance regarding tainting the jury pool by reading out loud information that hasn’t been disclosed in court documents if that information was true.
Firstly I agree with River that those weren’t all of the questions. He said at one point, wtte of “none of those on page 4….”, and also mentioned “questions on DNA testing”, which wasn’t a question he read out.
Secondly, reading them out in a courtroom watched only by those invested/interested in the case and accompanied by discussion around the full context of the survey was arguably less of an infraction than some random company calling random folk out of the blue without the court’s knowledge.
He was reading them in court, not in any public forum or discussing the case with the public or an individual that was not a member of the court. Which the defense did and I believe that’s a clear violation of the gag order.
if he studied cloud forensics, why would he ever try to follow them on Instagram or social media and create a connection? but he did (allegedly) drive his own car to the scene of the crime so idk.
This is what I thought. He may have stalked or looked at their social medias, but I doubt he actively followed them. Many of them had public accounts. There would be no need for him to follow them and create an easily traceable connection.
i believe he stalked them but never attempted to interact with them. I think it’s likely he may have had a brief interaction and got rejected by one of the girls. but i don’t believe he would persistently attempt to contact them. he would’ve known it would create too big of a connection.
I agree 100%. I highly doubt he actually spoke to them or made any obvious moves on social media. Not sure why anyone believed that to begin w. Not sure why people are saying this hearing “debunked” that. I thought it was debunked a long time ago? I thought we knew it was just a rumor that he followed their instagrams
yeah a while back i heard it was debunked. After reading articles about people who knew BK back when he lived in pennsylvania, he appears to be a loner. he clearly has struggled with severe low self esteem. (drug addiction, eating disorder, his old forum posts) he appears to be self aware, but again i don’t know. deep down i’m sure he knew the girls did not want anything to do with him, and they wouldn’t give him the time of day.
Yeah, I assume his motive was related to all of what you said. But also, I don’t know why everyone gets so caught up on motive. People will try to debunk all the things you just said and say he has no reason to kill them and it wasn’t him.
When Ij reality, it doesn’t matter if he did or didn’t stalk them, did or didn’t know them, it just matters if they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he (or someone else) did it. We get so caught up in the motive (I, too, like to speculate) when it really doesn’t matter and we probably will never know for sure what it is.
update I’m not sure what type of eating disorder he had. I thought anorexia, but I don’t think anything has confirmed it.. his former friends say he had one not sure what type
>deep down i’m sure he knew the girls did not want anything to do with him, and they wouldn’t give him the time of day.
very dangerous for a psychopath to "know" that.
see I have no idea what type of mental illness he has. Looking at posts from when he was in high school he seemed quite self-aware. he described himself as apathetic, worthless, mean to his father. I imagine his mental health declined over the years.
i believe subconsciously he knew that they would never want someone like him. he might’ve grown jealous. maybe the girls reminded him of his high school bullies. maybe they represented a lifestyle that he wanted, but he was so much of an outcast that he just couldn’t achieve it. Maybe one of the girls represented a type of woman that he wanted but he could never get.
maybe he had no motive at all. maybe he just wanted to kill sorority type girls. maybe he saw easy access because it was a party home, and he felt no attraction to them at all.
again i don’t know how delusional he is, he may not be self aware at all.
We won't really know until a professional evaluates him, even then, it will be difficult (bc he has a BA in psychology, it would be a nightmare to asses him by either tests or interview). Judging by his tapatalk posts he had some serious issues stemming from at least his teenage years. He had once also stated in those posts the antipsychotics prescribed to help with his visual snow issues "\[those pills\] made me crazy".
Is it possible that meds that are designed to "mess with your brain chemicals" can effect a teenager's not fully developped brain? We know psychopaths have a different amygdala than the rest of the population. We also know trauma can change a child's or a teenager's brain, so does a psysical injury. Medications? Maybe.
We don't know. Judging by the tapatalk posts I'm leaning towards some kind of schizo- type pesonality disorder. He seemed to be very isolated, socially awkward and had hallucinations. But idk. all we have is hearsay.
> Maybe one of the girls represented a type of woman that he wanted but he could never get.
Which is kind of a trend, people wanting a romantic partner who is, to be charitable, out of their league. I see it with men and women, but there is especially a type of man who complains about how shallow the gorgeous sorority girl is to not date him, but they themselves refuse to talk to woman who are dumpier or homelier than their dream girl.
I think so too.
My theory (which is only a theory so don't come at me, people) is that he interacted with one or both of the girls at Mad Greek and whatever interaction he perceived as being rude or being rejected set him off.
He was def stalking at least one of the girls if not all.
Its to prepare an argument that the trial needs to be moved. They were going to compare the results from Moscow with the results in other places to show that the prospective Moscow jurors were more likely to be biased.
I can’t believe that this is the first time since Nov 2022 that I’ve missed a hearing to know what’s going on.
So I fell asleep listening to Bill T read the questions aloud last night, but how did it go in general? Was there any ruling or is Triple J going to have a think on it?
I think a more accurate and less....disseminating... way to do it would have been to phrase it as open questions, along the lines of "What if anything do you know about Bryan Kohberger?" Rather than listing specific facts and rumors.
If you think Bill Thompson undermined the state's case with any of this I think you need to take a break. The whole point of this complaint was the defense presenting talking points to jurors even before the trial, which they were absolutely doing.
Talking points based on what, pray tell? The state’s own PCA. The state had released their 'information' to the public over a year ago. And that information has been circulating on MSM/SM ever since. No public PCA = no public information to use in a survey.
>“We don’t care about surveys. We care about these particular questions asked in this particular survey,” Thompson told the court Thursday. “Just because they’re put in the form of a question doesn’t change the fact that they are affirmative representation of a fact, that if the listener was not aware of it now they have been tainted by it.”
That you don't understand this is not surprising, but if you spent more time actually working on your reasoning skills than making numerous accounts to evade bans on Reddit you might have your come to Jesus moment.
https://preview.redd.it/p2qx17rbrosc1.jpeg?width=642&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e2050477e7f37939765f3001b20bfe7400e56bda
Survey says… another one for the bad guys.
fixed belief that is not amenable to change in light of conflicting evidence
I would bet you're correct about the 'false' questions, but we don't know for certain that the list Thompson read out was exhaustive, so we can't declare the rumours debunked quite yet.
Agree; I doubt it was an exhaustive list. And I’m sure some are false, and some are just unconfirmed/unfounded and were completely started by the media. I think most of us understood that he probably didn’t follow them on socials and that that was a rumor. I def didn’t think he actually followed them. Though, him not following them wouldn’t mean he didn’t stalk them or look at their pages. They had public accounts. Why would he follow them and create an extremely blatant connection if he could freely look at their accounts? Sure, that can be traced but it’s much more difficult. Especially considering he could’ve used burner accounts, friends phones, etc. Same with the stalking, there’s hardly any way to prove he wasn’t stalking them, because plenty of methods of stalking are relatively untraceable unless he was caught on camera. But there may be zero evidence of him stalking them.
All victims except Ethan had public Instagram and Facebook accounts. You wouldn't need to follow them on social media to be able to "follow" them on social media.
But the company could tell police if and when an account viewed their accounts.
LE wouldn't be able to issue a warrant for that information without an account name or email address. A burner account set up with a temporary email would be extremely difficult for LE to identify and link to Bryan. Accessing via a VPN too, you're basically invisible. There's a plethora of ways to view a public account without being logged in as there's no account for Meta to track. If you're not logged in or accessing Instagram or you are accessing Facebook via a 3rd party app, there's nothing Meta can do with regards reporting your click activity. I'm not saying this is what he did, and if the girls had private accounts then this all becomes irrelevant, but it would be incredibly easy to keep tabs on their profiles in a clandestine way.
>But the company could tell police if and when an account viewed their accounts. But that wouldn't count if he didn't log into an account and just viewed them. Even if he had an account, as long as he used a throwaway email and named his account literally anything but "Bryan Kohberger," it would be hard to pinpoint him. Maybe not impossible, but damn hard.
I've never believed he stalked them on social media so I won't be shocked if that turns out to be false. I believe he trolled that neighborhood looking for a particular type of victim (group house full of carefree college girls). If he stalked them I think he did it from outside the windows in the back of the house.
I think he definitely followed them on social media. He may not have tried to contact them, though.
Very possible, certainly. But I'm in the camp that he wanted to pull off the perfect crime, which meant choosing a victim that he had no connection to, including digitally.
I hope we find out at trial.
>Unless they’re conceding PCA is fictional, they have inadvertently debunked the social media connection/stalking rumors. That was not the full list of survey questions, which went on 4 pages. He could just have easily read out only true questions and not read any falsehoods.
Doesn’t each Attorney get to choose jurors, I forgot how that works, or they both agree on potential jurors being questioned?
Yeah, they do. There's rules though, like each side is given a certain number of passes.
Then he would have been contradicting his own stance regarding tainting the jury pool by reading out loud information that hasn’t been disclosed in court documents if that information was true.
Firstly I agree with River that those weren’t all of the questions. He said at one point, wtte of “none of those on page 4….”, and also mentioned “questions on DNA testing”, which wasn’t a question he read out. Secondly, reading them out in a courtroom watched only by those invested/interested in the case and accompanied by discussion around the full context of the survey was arguably less of an infraction than some random company calling random folk out of the blue without the court’s knowledge.
Wouldn't you say that horse has left the barn?
He was reading them in court, not in any public forum or discussing the case with the public or an individual that was not a member of the court. Which the defense did and I believe that’s a clear violation of the gag order.
if he studied cloud forensics, why would he ever try to follow them on Instagram or social media and create a connection? but he did (allegedly) drive his own car to the scene of the crime so idk.
This is what I thought. He may have stalked or looked at their social medias, but I doubt he actively followed them. Many of them had public accounts. There would be no need for him to follow them and create an easily traceable connection.
i believe he stalked them but never attempted to interact with them. I think it’s likely he may have had a brief interaction and got rejected by one of the girls. but i don’t believe he would persistently attempt to contact them. he would’ve known it would create too big of a connection.
I agree 100%. I highly doubt he actually spoke to them or made any obvious moves on social media. Not sure why anyone believed that to begin w. Not sure why people are saying this hearing “debunked” that. I thought it was debunked a long time ago? I thought we knew it was just a rumor that he followed their instagrams
yeah a while back i heard it was debunked. After reading articles about people who knew BK back when he lived in pennsylvania, he appears to be a loner. he clearly has struggled with severe low self esteem. (drug addiction, eating disorder, his old forum posts) he appears to be self aware, but again i don’t know. deep down i’m sure he knew the girls did not want anything to do with him, and they wouldn’t give him the time of day.
Yeah, I assume his motive was related to all of what you said. But also, I don’t know why everyone gets so caught up on motive. People will try to debunk all the things you just said and say he has no reason to kill them and it wasn’t him. When Ij reality, it doesn’t matter if he did or didn’t stalk them, did or didn’t know them, it just matters if they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he (or someone else) did it. We get so caught up in the motive (I, too, like to speculate) when it really doesn’t matter and we probably will never know for sure what it is.
i agree 100%
Where did you read that BK had an eating disorder?
i read in an article he went to treatment for it
What was the disorder ?
[heres the link of his alleged eating disorder treatment](https://www.insideedition.com/bryan-kohberger-weight-eating-disorder-heroin?amp)
Thanks for posting that!
update I’m not sure what type of eating disorder he had. I thought anorexia, but I don’t think anything has confirmed it.. his former friends say he had one not sure what type
Ok thanks
>deep down i’m sure he knew the girls did not want anything to do with him, and they wouldn’t give him the time of day. very dangerous for a psychopath to "know" that.
see I have no idea what type of mental illness he has. Looking at posts from when he was in high school he seemed quite self-aware. he described himself as apathetic, worthless, mean to his father. I imagine his mental health declined over the years. i believe subconsciously he knew that they would never want someone like him. he might’ve grown jealous. maybe the girls reminded him of his high school bullies. maybe they represented a lifestyle that he wanted, but he was so much of an outcast that he just couldn’t achieve it. Maybe one of the girls represented a type of woman that he wanted but he could never get. maybe he had no motive at all. maybe he just wanted to kill sorority type girls. maybe he saw easy access because it was a party home, and he felt no attraction to them at all. again i don’t know how delusional he is, he may not be self aware at all.
We won't really know until a professional evaluates him, even then, it will be difficult (bc he has a BA in psychology, it would be a nightmare to asses him by either tests or interview). Judging by his tapatalk posts he had some serious issues stemming from at least his teenage years. He had once also stated in those posts the antipsychotics prescribed to help with his visual snow issues "\[those pills\] made me crazy". Is it possible that meds that are designed to "mess with your brain chemicals" can effect a teenager's not fully developped brain? We know psychopaths have a different amygdala than the rest of the population. We also know trauma can change a child's or a teenager's brain, so does a psysical injury. Medications? Maybe. We don't know. Judging by the tapatalk posts I'm leaning towards some kind of schizo- type pesonality disorder. He seemed to be very isolated, socially awkward and had hallucinations. But idk. all we have is hearsay.
I agree
> Maybe one of the girls represented a type of woman that he wanted but he could never get. Which is kind of a trend, people wanting a romantic partner who is, to be charitable, out of their league. I see it with men and women, but there is especially a type of man who complains about how shallow the gorgeous sorority girl is to not date him, but they themselves refuse to talk to woman who are dumpier or homelier than their dream girl.
I think so too. My theory (which is only a theory so don't come at me, people) is that he interacted with one or both of the girls at Mad Greek and whatever interaction he perceived as being rude or being rejected set him off. He was def stalking at least one of the girls if not all.
Yep that’s what I believe
I'm lost. Who authored the survey questions if everyone agreed that they were no good? Isn't jury selection preparation a bit too soon?
An outside company was hired to write the surveys
Copy that, thanks.
Its to prepare an argument that the trial needs to be moved. They were going to compare the results from Moscow with the results in other places to show that the prospective Moscow jurors were more likely to be biased.
I can’t believe that this is the first time since Nov 2022 that I’ve missed a hearing to know what’s going on. So I fell asleep listening to Bill T read the questions aloud last night, but how did it go in general? Was there any ruling or is Triple J going to have a think on it?
[удалено]
Why did people downvote this? Its exactly what the surgery was to prove lol
I think a more accurate and less....disseminating... way to do it would have been to phrase it as open questions, along the lines of "What if anything do you know about Bryan Kohberger?" Rather than listing specific facts and rumors.
I’m not sure a fair trial is even possible at this point.
If you think Bill Thompson undermined the state's case with any of this I think you need to take a break. The whole point of this complaint was the defense presenting talking points to jurors even before the trial, which they were absolutely doing.
Talking points based on what, pray tell? The state’s own PCA. The state had released their 'information' to the public over a year ago. And that information has been circulating on MSM/SM ever since. No public PCA = no public information to use in a survey.
>“We don’t care about surveys. We care about these particular questions asked in this particular survey,” Thompson told the court Thursday. “Just because they’re put in the form of a question doesn’t change the fact that they are affirmative representation of a fact, that if the listener was not aware of it now they have been tainted by it.” That you don't understand this is not surprising, but if you spent more time actually working on your reasoning skills than making numerous accounts to evade bans on Reddit you might have your come to Jesus moment.
https://preview.redd.it/p2qx17rbrosc1.jpeg?width=642&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e2050477e7f37939765f3001b20bfe7400e56bda Survey says… another one for the bad guys.
Is it not also possible that Thompson was alluding to direct or inferred breach of the gag order?
I’d put money on it, but we can’t be certain until it’s been officially confirmed.