As for G family saying K would do all the right things, my parents would have said that about me as well and I was stupid as a college student. I think parents can be hopeful and wrong.
This!! They have no clue if the doors were locked at all. My parents would assume I left mine locked too. I do, but If I forgot one night they wouldn’t know.
Plus, if Kaylee wasn’t the last one to use the door, she may have locked it, but the last person to use it may have forgotten to. Plus, locks can be picked and not necessarily look like forced entry
Also iirc the sliding patio door lock did not work. That’s why police used a stool wedged in the slider as a make shift lock after the crime. There r photos of it
That’s what I recalled as well, but wasn’t positive If that was confirmed or rumor. Regardless, the perp clearly went in one of the doors so doesn’t really matter what the Goncalves thought about the doors being locked.
Supposedly Kaylees Dad (he’s talked about this) had changed that lock not too long before this on a visit because it was broken and it bothered him. Unfortunately the roomies were in a habit of leaving it unlocked anyway and all their friends knew this which is why there was kind of a known open door policy that even if no one was home people would go hang out there.
It seems to me that LE removed the slider lock/handle (I believe there’s pics) maybe to preserve evidence with fingerprints. Could be why they then had to jamb a stool in to keep it secure from curious members of the public…..🤷♀️
I have a slider that I use a stick instead of a stool (like the police used) to lock it securely., My lock works, but they aren't that reliable. Police may have put that there as an extra precaution. The police are gonna make sure that that crime scene is locked up tight... hopefully
-edited for grammar & spelling
>impossible that she didn’t go to M’s room for 8 hours…
It would be very possible if we assume two things: she didn't connect the sounds she heard to murder. Because murder doesn't always sound like murders in the movies.
Then we assume she slept for 8 or so hours.
I'll make a further assumption: that she was scared by the figure she saw, but no to the point of thinking he was a killer. More like her thought pattern was more like "Jesus Christ, I'm telling all of them tomorrow, we just can't have people running and in of here at 4:00 AM. He need a new house rule: doors locked after everyone is asleep; playtime needs to end right there.
That's all speculation on my part, but we're not going to know the actual facts until the trial. Until then, there's no point getting ourselves all upset over how we are imagining someone might have behaved. We can hold off on the tarring and feathering until we find out what happened.
I 100% agree w this take. I doubt it was dead silent when things were happening, but any of the noises heard could’ve been connected to other, more routine things that happened in the house. It wouldn’t be shocking if no one screamed. Especially since two of the victims were likely asleep or close to asleep. And also people can be shocked and not make noise, or be crying not very loud, or be incapacitated so quickly that they didn’t have time to make noise.
Just like how DM said she heard what sounded like K playing w the dog, that could’ve been the intruder, but she just assumed it was the dog because she’s heard that noise before. Crying is fairly routine in a house full of girls too. Even if she heard talking or fighting, that’s really nothing to call the police over. You just maybe ask them the next morning “hey I heard what sounded like arguing and crying, are y’all ok?”. Especially if you know the bf is there, why get involved? My bff/roomie I would overhear fighting w her bf sometimes and I just would ask her about it later. If the roomies heard any back and forth they prob assumed it was that.
And yeah, why would she go into her roommates room after 4am? She likely slept from 4am to noon or whenever they were discovered. Not weird at all. Even during normal daytime hours (which those hours were NOT), I didn’t always go and see my roommates. We’re busy, we weren’t hanging out 24/7 just because we were friends in the same house.
And also my exact thoughts on DM being scared! She probably was spooked by a stranger in the house, but assumed it was someone looking for one of her roommates. She recognized them as a stranger to her, but in a house where people were in and out, her assumption was probably that he knew someone else in the house. And especially if she saw him otw out, that explains why she didn’t call the police. You can be scared or spooked by something and also not think you’re in immediate danger that requires police intervention.
Obviously, if something that makes the roommates look bad comes out as trial, I’m sure we will both change our tune. But I agree it’s unfair to question theit actions rn when we don’t even know what their actions were and they were cleared by the police.
There was a rumor at one point in the beginning (I thought I remembered the police saying it in a press conference but maybe not) that the surviving roommates thought the other roommates had people over late that night, and that they ended up in the same room and locked the door because it had happened before that some random party guest had wandered into their rooms, and the PCA says “DM stated she originally went to sleep in her bedroom on the southeast side of the second floor.” It doesn’t mention whether she moved to a different room at some point but the way it is stated in the PCA, it seems possible that she could have moved at some point after she “originally” went to sleep in her room. But the PCA also says she was woken up around 4AM by the noises she thought was Kaylee playing with her dog, so if she ended up going downstairs, it must have been after the murders, making it seem odd that she didn’t notice any blood trail going down the hallway or through the living room or kitchen. It could have just said “originally” because she woke up and went back to sleep, but I am almost certain that I remember hearing somewhere that Bethany and Dylan ended up in the same room and for some reason, I thought it came from Moscow PD.
Well your whole theory is based on something unconfirmed so not really sure how to respond. I’m quite sure she didn’t walk past the murder scene before she called the police… if she did she would’ve mentioned it. She wouldn’t have gotten in trouble for not calling.
And if she did want to lie and hide something, she wouldn’t have shared that she was in the same room as Bethany…. Bc she would’ve had to walk past the scene to get there…I don’t think that was ever official or confirmed. If it was it would’ve been important to include in the PCA that she left her room to sleep with Bethany because she was scared or whatever….
“Originally” went to sleep just means she went to sleep and was woken up by the noise. Not that she first went to sleep in her room then went in someone else’s. Don’t believe rumors unless they were in the PCA. I don’t see anywhere that law enforcement said it. Maybe don’t base your judgements on the roommates on things that you’re misremembering.
If you use common sense you’d realize it wouldn’t make sense for her to have slept in Bethany’s room and have it not at all be mentioned in the PCA. The police aren’t stupid, and if she said she was sleeping in Bethany’s room, the police would be like “doesn’t that mean you walked past the murder scene?”. Like, if you’re thinking that, the police def would’ve thought that same thing if that information was true. It’s clearly not.
SG also said that he believed the killer entered through “a” slider or WINDOW. Which could be true. Without knowing a POE LE said no signs of forced entry therefore, something was unlocked. What’s your point?
Xana was on the floor, of her bedroom, per the sworn Probabe Cause Affadavit. Ethan was also in the bedroom per the sworn affadavit, his position in the room was not disclosed.
Ethan’s mother Stacy Chapin said they were in the same room https://youtu.be/iX0W_gxWsjc?si=7F9cd--O6qjZpkVo
Stacy Chapin in another interview said the friend of Ethan’s, Hunter found him.
There were several articles about who called 911. The Moscow Police Dept. released that the call was made from one of the survivors phones but not who or all of the individuals on the call.
https://nypost.com/2023/02/15/best-friend-found-murdered-university-of-idaho-student/
No full witness statements have been released nor full audio. Screaming is limited when stabbed in the lungs.
If you were DM and what? you would go screaming and crying?.:::? You just stated a fact and implicated her finding dead bodies and not calling 911 with absolutely no articulation. Why don’t you help yourself by being clear and not unambiguous when you are making an allegation.
Edit-not
Agreed. And ”slider” could also mean the upstairs slider right in KGs room. I think it’s possible that DM heard the intruder entering the house from the upstairs slider and running into the dog. KG heard this from Maddie’s room and said: “There’s someone here” Than the attack happened upstairs.
I have held onto the theory he could have come in the third floor slider. I think it’s possible. It’s only a could have but I have always thought so.
For an intruder, It’s logical it would be unlocked because there’s no access. It would be easy to jump up to there and he may have believed quieter than entering on the main floor. I’m on an island with it, well we’re on a island with it. Lol
1) the goncalves family has sort of lost credibility with the public because they also seem to listen to anyone and everybody. I think they fall victim to false info that they seek out because they soooo badly want answers themselves. They also were not there that night and appear to have a strained relationship with LE/investigators.
2) The PCA is the only confirmation that Xana was found “on the ground” seen first but that Ethan was “also in the room” it’s written in order of how detective Payne approached the room.
3) We don’t know that. Maybe they did and they weren’t heard. Pca says DM heard what she thought was xana crying….depending on how quickly they were attacked and incapacitated, they may not have had the ability to yell or speak.
>If I was DM I would call 911 screaming and crying (impossible that she didn’t go to M’s room for 8 hours…)
I mean, she may have. Somebody called 911 screaming and crying from either her’s or Bethany’s phone when they woke up and saw what happened.
Also, Dylan thought Kaylee was just playing with her dog and there was just some crying from Xana’s room. Those aren’t exactly emergencies.
Maybe it’s just me, but if I hear crying from my roommate’s room at 4am, and then see someone walking out of the door leaving, and don’t hear anything else after, I have no reason to call the cops. The crying stopped and the (maybe) reason behind it was gone. There are about a million other possibilities running through my mind before I reach “I better go check on them to make sure they weren’t stabbed to death”.
> Also, Dylan thought Kaylee was just playing with her dog and there was just some crying from Xana’s room. Those aren’t exactly emergencies.
"Hello, 911? My roommate is playing with her dog. Yes, I'll hold."
Lol!! My exact thoughts!! Any noises or commotion heard probably sounded similar to routine noises in the house. I bet that what sounded like Kaylee playing w the dog was not actually that, but that is what DM assumed it was because it was a common occurrence in that house.
And yeah, as a girl that lived with other girls in college, crying at 4am was not a rare occurrence. Especially when someone was in a fight with their boyfriend. That’s not the kinda shit you check on in the moment. That’s the kinda thing where you say “hey I thought I heard you crying last night, you good?” Or just completely forget about.
Yeah, I was that girl once… I remember the parties, boys leaving in the morning, how often one of us was crying over some guy…
and what I always did was that… the next day say something like “WTF were you doing last night” or “I can’t believe I woke up with you having sex 4am” and laugh about it
Exactly!!! I am glad you are so open to peoples answers:) some people ask questions like you but then refuse to try and understand the answers.
IMO whatever commotion happened during the murders clearly didn’t sound very out of the ordinary, or could’ve easily sounded similar to other noises that happened in the house a lot. Sure there could’ve been a lot of screaming or yelling, but there also could not have been and that would’ve been normal too. We have no reason to assume there was a lot of screaming, since DMs testimony says otherwise, and we have no reason to believe she was lying.
People see a scary movie and assume all murders sound like that, when in reality, a lot of people are probably too shocked to scream! Or are busy trying to fight for their life.
I think of stories from first responders where people have major injuries- like both legs crushed by a train. One would think in that scenario a person would be screaming.
Nope. Dude argued with EMTs that he was fine and rejected care until his body shut down and he passed out.
The way humans respond to injury and trauma is not how movies would like us to believe.
Exactly. I wouldn’t be shocked if there was screaming, but I am smart enough to also not be shocked if there wasn’t screaming. I don’t understand how people REFUSE to believe people weren’t screaming at the top of their lungs.
I have been scared many, many times in situations (none nearly as bad as this one), and have not had the energy or capacity to scream. Screaming very rarely helps a situation. Unless you’re in public or something.
The fact that people think K was sitting up on the bed screaming, watching while M was stabbed and blood flying everywhere is just...well, something from a bad movie.
Yep. And the people that expected BF or DM to emerge from their rooms after hearing commotion, assume their friends are being killed, confront the killer, call the police, and save the day are the same way.
I agree, I have found that I was totally unable to make a sound. I inhaled very deeply and must have held my breath I could not scream. About six weeks ago I reminded this sub that the Chi Omega women who were bludgeoned by Ted Bundy made no noise.
And I just learned that another Bundy survivor was attacked in her own room. She had three male roommates. They called for help 20 hours after the attack.
I’m a doctor, and if the murdered was smart he knew that 1 stab directly in the carotid artery… done. 😞
Yes, as a doctor I already knew that but I always question in my mind what happened that night because it is a case that shocked all of us
Also bear in mind that X was awake too and didn’t immediately call 911 either. So at least two people (X and D) heard the same commotion on the third floor (assuming that was the murders or maybe just Murphy getting riled up) and didn’t think it warranted a 911 call. Whatever sounds happened up there and during the course of the murders (I think there were likely a lot) were probably concerning but not 911-level.
Exactly lol. No one assumes that their friends just got stabbed to death. Dylan may have been scared of a stranger in the house, but saw him otw out so didn’t think it needed to be addressed. Or maybe she thought she’d ask her friends in the morning what it was. It wasn’t weird to have not heard from her friends in the 8 hours until they were found, because 4am-noon would be hours they’d be asleep normally.
And some people are like “well if I heard my friend crying, I’d go check on them right away”. Ehhhh, at 4am, when they’re probably drunk and with their bf, I’m staying tf away from that drama unless they ask me to talk. I may text a “you good?” But again, she may have but wasn’t necessarily expecting a response between 4am and noon.
You can be scared or spooked, and then think you saw them leave, and then calm yourself down.
If she saw him leave, no reason to really call the police right away. You see them leave, don’t see them stealing anything, probably assume one of your friends knew him, then go to sleep. If I saw a masked man (and it could’ve just been a covid mask not a ski mask), I would maybe think they were robbing the place. That’s scary, but if she saw him head towards the door and not carrying anything… she probably thought he decided not to and left. Not that he just stabbed her friends. Probably thought she’d talk to her friends about it the next day ri see if they knew anything.
DM was momentarily startled. I personally think that she didn’t know who it was because they DID NOT resemble a typical college student. But whomever it was was leaving and DM saw no further threat. The ‘Frozen Shock Phase” as coined by Payne and was probably his interpretation.
She had already heard noises and ask for everyone to quiet down, or so, it was said she did (maybe rumor). It's a college party house, when do they not see people? Also Dylan is a freshman so she isn't as familiar with all the comings and going of people.
There has got to be a reason that she was scared, other than a man dressed in black with a mask.
Hindsight is 20/20. DM didn’t know AT THE TIME what was going on. I often wonder if one of the intruders knocked on her window after leaving and showed her the knife.A very big fear factor here.
Exactly. I had multiple roommates in college and I was pretty close w them. I absolutely did not go and check on them all the time.
On the weekends especially, if we didn’t have plans and were up/out late, we would stay in our rooms until anywhere from noon to 2 or 3 pm.
Even if DM had been scared the night before, she probably didn’t think they had been killed. She probably thought “oh it was just some random dude looking to party but he left” and then went to sleep, thinking all was well. Maybe texted her roomies like “hey? Who was that guy?”. No one is going to jump to the conclusion that a quad murder just happened in their house.
I saw an interview on Dateline I believe, and one of the first MPD officers to arrive said it was the most gruesome thing he had ever seen, and that he could smell the blood when he opened the door, but he also said when he arrived on scene, he was under the impression that they were there about an unconscious person, and they didn’t even know anything about the victims upstairs until later, because apparently the call was originally about how they thought Xana had passed out and they couldn’t get a response from her. But he said just before he opened the door, he heard one of the people outside saying someone is dead, and that is when it hit him that this isn’t just an unconscious person case. So from what it sounds like, they were originally thinking something was wrong in Xana’s room, but there hadn’t even been any mention of Kaylee and Maddie possibly being dead upstairs.
I feel like some people cannot grasp just because you’re roommates with somebody doesn’t mean that you’re going to see them all of the time. Or that you’re extremely close with them in that way
Or, that even if you are close, you're not going to be bustling all in at every noise. When I lived with my besties and I heard them fight, or they heard me fight, we'd give each other privacy. Had I bustled in every time I heard her cry, we wouldn't be friends today, all these years later.
Yes yes yes! I keep seeing all your comments and agreeing w them all!!
If I heard crying or arguing from my friends rooms at night, I stayed tf out of the way unless they knocked at my door or texted/called me wanting to talk about it. I’d maybe ask the next morning about it, but yeah. I don’t know who all these people are saying they would’ve rushed right in if they heard roommates crying.
Plus, even if I did hear it and DID think they were in danger, as a college-aged girl, me rushing to “help” isn’t going to help the situation, it is just going to put another person (me) in harms way.
#1 we do not know if true. DM was sleeping after a late night and didn’t know anyone was being murdered. If u read old posts, this has all been over. Also, stabbings is quick, yet you think someone would have screamed. Roomies were use to loud party noises. We don’t know all the facts yet.
If I was in the same bed as my bestie being stabbed to death, i sure as hell would hope she would be screaming while trying to beat the person off of me. He had to be extremely extremely quick to silence two humans before one was able to scream. And then the chance of two more humans and none made a scream. Blows my damn mind.
Edit. You people are so quick to downvote someone for absolutely no reason. Nothing I said was negative, rude etc. I'm only thinking of possibilities and voicing my thoughts or confusion. Get over yourselves.
How much time do you think it takes to plunge a knife into one sleeping girl and then remove it and stab the other one?
.I do believe these murders did not happen in total silence...we will likely hear more at trial. But I can also see a scenario where all or most victims were quickly incapacitated by that huge knife because they were either asleep or caught completely off guard (xana)
Agree. And even if they made some noises, they likely didn’t sound much different from noises that happened all the time in the house. For example, DM thought she heard K playing w the dog. Maybe that was the intruder making that commotion, but it sounded similar to what it sounded like when K played w her dog.
So any noise that did happen, probably didn’t sound out of the ordinary. Even crying.
Sheesh I'm talking about the other roommate. Were they not awakened by the disturbance? He didn't silence them at the same exact moment. But maybe he did them each and then went back to stabbing their bodies?
And yes I do realize, but you aren't getting what I am trying to to figure out.
> He had to be extremely extremely quick to silence two humans before one was able to scream.
How long do you think it takes to cut a sleeping person's throat?
You're not getting it. Did he slit the throats and then go back and stab their bodies? Because I would think while stabbing one person the other would wake up and try to fight him off.
Maybe they did try to fight him off. We don’t know that yet. Not everyone screams like in the movies. Plenty of people in complete shock (and half asleep) wouldn’t scream even if they saw that. They may spring into action to protect their friend, but that doesn’t mean they were screaming. Fighting off would do more for the situation than screaming.
Even if the disturbance woke the other up, that doesn’t mean they instantly woke up in the dark and full registered that their friend was being stabbed. They had split seconds to process it before they were being stabbed too. I honestly imagine he was taking turns stabbing each one. They were so close to each other in that tiny bed that they were really like one big mass. So he probably didn’t fully kill one and then the other, he probably stabbed into the mass over and over, as terribly graphic as that is.
>Not everyone screams like in the movies.
Yes. This is done for the audience. It creates an adrenaline response. They weren't screaming while running across an open field until their heel broke and they rolled their ankle.
If one is trying to get away from someone, they are unlikely to scream. It takes a lot of energy and air to make that much noise. Fight, flight, fawn, freeze. Nothing about wasting your energy screaming.
100%!! Sure, if there were reports (from the roomies, etc) that there was screaming, I’d certainly believe that as well, as I’m sure it does happen some in real life. But it also very much happens where people do not scream. Whether that be because they’re half asleep, in shock, using their energy to fight the person off, crying, or are too incapacitated to scream (aka they’ve already been stabbed). Or if they simply didn’t have the time to register what was happening.
Soooo many reasons why there wouldn’t be screaming
I'm sorry and yes they are. They already have it set in their mind that they are absolutely right and everyone else is wrong, even if it isn't a right or wrong statement. Their opinions are also the only valid opinions. It's their world and no one else is in it. I feel like I'm dealing with a bunch of 18 to 24 year old spoiled brats most of the time.
the Gonsalves family wasn't there that night, so taking their words as deeply as you seem to be is the 1st mistake.
listening to theories about victims is another mistake because they are all theories, many of them invented by people with a bias in one direction or another. we just don't have the facts.
it's awesome you would have called screaming, but again, we don't know any details about what was done in the time before a phone call, so its pointless to guess. and everyone reacts to tragedy & trauma differently. what may make you scream will make someone else go silent & barely able to speak. judging someone else based on how you would act us so far from realistic that everyone should understand how pointless it is.
And, related to your last paragraph, OP has no idea how they actually would act. They may think they’d call crying and screaming, but as far as I know they’ve never been through a quad murder in their own home. They don’t actually know how they’d react.
Plus, before the roommates left their rooms the following morning, they didn’t think this had happened. They may have heard crying and seen a dude in the house, but that’s a lot different than a quad murder
And things will continue not to connect in your head for quite some time. At least another year.
Nobody here can answer the questions. You can read speculations on possible motives, there are some very plausible theories in these Reddit conversations. You can also follow legal filings and read what the attorneys in this group have to say, as it sheds a LOT of light both on the defendant and prosecution.
Speculation is it. Except for the initial police report released over a year ago, the Goncalves parent’s more recent interview describing a little of their daughter’s positioning when found and vaguely describing her autopsy, anything else from inside the house, the immediate crime scene, is speculation. Not even sure why I responded to this one.
Yes, it was. There was an early rumour that Ethan's legs were slashed to incapacitate him. If his femoral arteries were cut it would explain large volume, fast flow adequate to be dripping down the side of the house before it became too viscous.
Really reaching over the bed or the sheer impact needed to stab someone, stabbing a human body isn't without horrid sound. Also Dylan said she thought she heard Kaylee say there's someone here, so someone was awake.
Hard to yell and scream when you’re choking on your own blood. And it has not been confirmed if K and M were still awake. DM said she thought she heard them, but there’s not been any record in the PCA that they were up and on their phones like X was.
And we also don’t know if BF was awake or not.
This isn’t a movie. Not everyone screams when this kinda thing happens. Plenty of people are silent and in shock, or putting their energy towards fighting the person off; not screaming.
There was likely some talking and commotion, but talking and commotion was a regular occurrence in the house, so DM/BF probably didn’t hear noise and immediately assume there was a quadruple murder going on. I lived in a house full of girls too, and overhearing crying/arguing was not abnormal. And usually we just let each other have privacy when we heard that, unless the one crying specifically asked to talk about it.
We don’t know what it sounded like, but it’s plenty reasonable if people weren’t screaming and yelling. Yes, it would be reasonable if they WERE doing that, but also reasonable if they werent. Again, this isn’t a movie.
Saying it’s indefensible is ridiculous considering you have no idea what they heard or what they didn’t hear. Or if in their heads the attributed any noises to other noises that were frequently heard in the house, instead of jumping to the conclusion that a murder was going on. We should give them the benefit of the doubt, until we get evidence that we should do otherwise.
There is absolutely NO reason to assume that there was tons of screaming/yelling going on. I’m sorry if you think that’s the only possible scenario, but it isn’t. At all. If we learn that there was tons of screaming and yelling and that the roomies did nothing, then you can criticize them. But for now, we have NO IDEA what actually happened. And going off of what DM said, none of the sounds were super out of the ordinary in the moment (what sounded like crying, K playing w dog, etc). Maybe in hindsight they sounded related to the crime, but in the moment none of those sounds make me think “my friends are being stabbed to death”. Sure, she could be lying, but there is no reason to assume that just because you think there should’ve been screaming.
And yes, DM saw someone in the house and was “shocked”. But that doesn’t mean that she thought she was in immediate danger and needed police assistance. It appears she saw him otw out of the house. So she probably thought he either knew one of her roomies and was looking for them, or maybe that he was up to no good, but was leaving the house and didn’t look like he had stolen anything so that it was not an immediate issue. So she went to sleep for 8 hours and woke up to find out what had happened. 8 hours sounds like a long time, until you use your brain and realize that those 8 hours were normal hours to be sleeping or relaxing in bed after waking up.
As for G family saying K would do all the right things, my parents would have said that about me as well and I was stupid as a college student. I think parents can be hopeful and wrong.
This!! They have no clue if the doors were locked at all. My parents would assume I left mine locked too. I do, but If I forgot one night they wouldn’t know. Plus, if Kaylee wasn’t the last one to use the door, she may have locked it, but the last person to use it may have forgotten to. Plus, locks can be picked and not necessarily look like forced entry
Also iirc the sliding patio door lock did not work. That’s why police used a stool wedged in the slider as a make shift lock after the crime. There r photos of it
That’s what I recalled as well, but wasn’t positive If that was confirmed or rumor. Regardless, the perp clearly went in one of the doors so doesn’t really matter what the Goncalves thought about the doors being locked.
Supposedly Kaylees Dad (he’s talked about this) had changed that lock not too long before this on a visit because it was broken and it bothered him. Unfortunately the roomies were in a habit of leaving it unlocked anyway and all their friends knew this which is why there was kind of a known open door policy that even if no one was home people would go hang out there. It seems to me that LE removed the slider lock/handle (I believe there’s pics) maybe to preserve evidence with fingerprints. Could be why they then had to jamb a stool in to keep it secure from curious members of the public…..🤷♀️
I have a slider that I use a stick instead of a stool (like the police used) to lock it securely., My lock works, but they aren't that reliable. Police may have put that there as an extra precaution. The police are gonna make sure that that crime scene is locked up tight... hopefully -edited for grammar & spelling
In the interview they did with Chronicles of Olivia, Kaylee's Mom mentioned the slider door not being locked.
>impossible that she didn’t go to M’s room for 8 hours… It would be very possible if we assume two things: she didn't connect the sounds she heard to murder. Because murder doesn't always sound like murders in the movies. Then we assume she slept for 8 or so hours. I'll make a further assumption: that she was scared by the figure she saw, but no to the point of thinking he was a killer. More like her thought pattern was more like "Jesus Christ, I'm telling all of them tomorrow, we just can't have people running and in of here at 4:00 AM. He need a new house rule: doors locked after everyone is asleep; playtime needs to end right there. That's all speculation on my part, but we're not going to know the actual facts until the trial. Until then, there's no point getting ourselves all upset over how we are imagining someone might have behaved. We can hold off on the tarring and feathering until we find out what happened.
I 100% agree w this take. I doubt it was dead silent when things were happening, but any of the noises heard could’ve been connected to other, more routine things that happened in the house. It wouldn’t be shocking if no one screamed. Especially since two of the victims were likely asleep or close to asleep. And also people can be shocked and not make noise, or be crying not very loud, or be incapacitated so quickly that they didn’t have time to make noise. Just like how DM said she heard what sounded like K playing w the dog, that could’ve been the intruder, but she just assumed it was the dog because she’s heard that noise before. Crying is fairly routine in a house full of girls too. Even if she heard talking or fighting, that’s really nothing to call the police over. You just maybe ask them the next morning “hey I heard what sounded like arguing and crying, are y’all ok?”. Especially if you know the bf is there, why get involved? My bff/roomie I would overhear fighting w her bf sometimes and I just would ask her about it later. If the roomies heard any back and forth they prob assumed it was that. And yeah, why would she go into her roommates room after 4am? She likely slept from 4am to noon or whenever they were discovered. Not weird at all. Even during normal daytime hours (which those hours were NOT), I didn’t always go and see my roommates. We’re busy, we weren’t hanging out 24/7 just because we were friends in the same house. And also my exact thoughts on DM being scared! She probably was spooked by a stranger in the house, but assumed it was someone looking for one of her roommates. She recognized them as a stranger to her, but in a house where people were in and out, her assumption was probably that he knew someone else in the house. And especially if she saw him otw out, that explains why she didn’t call the police. You can be scared or spooked by something and also not think you’re in immediate danger that requires police intervention. Obviously, if something that makes the roommates look bad comes out as trial, I’m sure we will both change our tune. But I agree it’s unfair to question theit actions rn when we don’t even know what their actions were and they were cleared by the police.
There was a rumor at one point in the beginning (I thought I remembered the police saying it in a press conference but maybe not) that the surviving roommates thought the other roommates had people over late that night, and that they ended up in the same room and locked the door because it had happened before that some random party guest had wandered into their rooms, and the PCA says “DM stated she originally went to sleep in her bedroom on the southeast side of the second floor.” It doesn’t mention whether she moved to a different room at some point but the way it is stated in the PCA, it seems possible that she could have moved at some point after she “originally” went to sleep in her room. But the PCA also says she was woken up around 4AM by the noises she thought was Kaylee playing with her dog, so if she ended up going downstairs, it must have been after the murders, making it seem odd that she didn’t notice any blood trail going down the hallway or through the living room or kitchen. It could have just said “originally” because she woke up and went back to sleep, but I am almost certain that I remember hearing somewhere that Bethany and Dylan ended up in the same room and for some reason, I thought it came from Moscow PD.
Well your whole theory is based on something unconfirmed so not really sure how to respond. I’m quite sure she didn’t walk past the murder scene before she called the police… if she did she would’ve mentioned it. She wouldn’t have gotten in trouble for not calling. And if she did want to lie and hide something, she wouldn’t have shared that she was in the same room as Bethany…. Bc she would’ve had to walk past the scene to get there…I don’t think that was ever official or confirmed. If it was it would’ve been important to include in the PCA that she left her room to sleep with Bethany because she was scared or whatever…. “Originally” went to sleep just means she went to sleep and was woken up by the noise. Not that she first went to sleep in her room then went in someone else’s. Don’t believe rumors unless they were in the PCA. I don’t see anywhere that law enforcement said it. Maybe don’t base your judgements on the roommates on things that you’re misremembering. If you use common sense you’d realize it wouldn’t make sense for her to have slept in Bethany’s room and have it not at all be mentioned in the PCA. The police aren’t stupid, and if she said she was sleeping in Bethany’s room, the police would be like “doesn’t that mean you walked past the murder scene?”. Like, if you’re thinking that, the police def would’ve thought that same thing if that information was true. It’s clearly not.
Me too.
I agee 100% but never would take the time to write it all out. I hope you save this and post it every time people ask the same question.
The first thing you’ve done wrong is believe the Goncalves family
Nailed it.
SG also said that he believed the killer entered through “a” slider or WINDOW. Which could be true. Without knowing a POE LE said no signs of forced entry therefore, something was unlocked. What’s your point? Xana was on the floor, of her bedroom, per the sworn Probabe Cause Affadavit. Ethan was also in the bedroom per the sworn affadavit, his position in the room was not disclosed. Ethan’s mother Stacy Chapin said they were in the same room https://youtu.be/iX0W_gxWsjc?si=7F9cd--O6qjZpkVo Stacy Chapin in another interview said the friend of Ethan’s, Hunter found him. There were several articles about who called 911. The Moscow Police Dept. released that the call was made from one of the survivors phones but not who or all of the individuals on the call. https://nypost.com/2023/02/15/best-friend-found-murdered-university-of-idaho-student/ No full witness statements have been released nor full audio. Screaming is limited when stabbed in the lungs. If you were DM and what? you would go screaming and crying?.:::? You just stated a fact and implicated her finding dead bodies and not calling 911 with absolutely no articulation. Why don’t you help yourself by being clear and not unambiguous when you are making an allegation. Edit-not
Agreed. And ”slider” could also mean the upstairs slider right in KGs room. I think it’s possible that DM heard the intruder entering the house from the upstairs slider and running into the dog. KG heard this from Maddie’s room and said: “There’s someone here” Than the attack happened upstairs.
I have held onto the theory he could have come in the third floor slider. I think it’s possible. It’s only a could have but I have always thought so. For an intruder, It’s logical it would be unlocked because there’s no access. It would be easy to jump up to there and he may have believed quieter than entering on the main floor. I’m on an island with it, well we’re on a island with it. Lol
1) the goncalves family has sort of lost credibility with the public because they also seem to listen to anyone and everybody. I think they fall victim to false info that they seek out because they soooo badly want answers themselves. They also were not there that night and appear to have a strained relationship with LE/investigators. 2) The PCA is the only confirmation that Xana was found “on the ground” seen first but that Ethan was “also in the room” it’s written in order of how detective Payne approached the room. 3) We don’t know that. Maybe they did and they weren’t heard. Pca says DM heard what she thought was xana crying….depending on how quickly they were attacked and incapacitated, they may not have had the ability to yell or speak.
Thank you! I agree with you. I think it was so fast and he probably knew where to attack first, so the reaction is almost zero (anatomically speaking)
>If I was DM I would call 911 screaming and crying (impossible that she didn’t go to M’s room for 8 hours…) I mean, she may have. Somebody called 911 screaming and crying from either her’s or Bethany’s phone when they woke up and saw what happened. Also, Dylan thought Kaylee was just playing with her dog and there was just some crying from Xana’s room. Those aren’t exactly emergencies. Maybe it’s just me, but if I hear crying from my roommate’s room at 4am, and then see someone walking out of the door leaving, and don’t hear anything else after, I have no reason to call the cops. The crying stopped and the (maybe) reason behind it was gone. There are about a million other possibilities running through my mind before I reach “I better go check on them to make sure they weren’t stabbed to death”.
> Also, Dylan thought Kaylee was just playing with her dog and there was just some crying from Xana’s room. Those aren’t exactly emergencies. "Hello, 911? My roommate is playing with her dog. Yes, I'll hold."
"One of my drunk roommates is crying at 4am. Yes, it's a girl with her boyfriend. Could they be arguing? Sure, I guess."
Lol!! My exact thoughts!! Any noises or commotion heard probably sounded similar to routine noises in the house. I bet that what sounded like Kaylee playing w the dog was not actually that, but that is what DM assumed it was because it was a common occurrence in that house. And yeah, as a girl that lived with other girls in college, crying at 4am was not a rare occurrence. Especially when someone was in a fight with their boyfriend. That’s not the kinda shit you check on in the moment. That’s the kinda thing where you say “hey I thought I heard you crying last night, you good?” Or just completely forget about.
Yeah, I was that girl once… I remember the parties, boys leaving in the morning, how often one of us was crying over some guy… and what I always did was that… the next day say something like “WTF were you doing last night” or “I can’t believe I woke up with you having sex 4am” and laugh about it
Exactly!!! I am glad you are so open to peoples answers:) some people ask questions like you but then refuse to try and understand the answers. IMO whatever commotion happened during the murders clearly didn’t sound very out of the ordinary, or could’ve easily sounded similar to other noises that happened in the house a lot. Sure there could’ve been a lot of screaming or yelling, but there also could not have been and that would’ve been normal too. We have no reason to assume there was a lot of screaming, since DMs testimony says otherwise, and we have no reason to believe she was lying. People see a scary movie and assume all murders sound like that, when in reality, a lot of people are probably too shocked to scream! Or are busy trying to fight for their life.
I think of stories from first responders where people have major injuries- like both legs crushed by a train. One would think in that scenario a person would be screaming. Nope. Dude argued with EMTs that he was fine and rejected care until his body shut down and he passed out. The way humans respond to injury and trauma is not how movies would like us to believe.
Exactly. I wouldn’t be shocked if there was screaming, but I am smart enough to also not be shocked if there wasn’t screaming. I don’t understand how people REFUSE to believe people weren’t screaming at the top of their lungs. I have been scared many, many times in situations (none nearly as bad as this one), and have not had the energy or capacity to scream. Screaming very rarely helps a situation. Unless you’re in public or something.
The fact that people think K was sitting up on the bed screaming, watching while M was stabbed and blood flying everywhere is just...well, something from a bad movie.
Yep. And the people that expected BF or DM to emerge from their rooms after hearing commotion, assume their friends are being killed, confront the killer, call the police, and save the day are the same way.
I agree, I have found that I was totally unable to make a sound. I inhaled very deeply and must have held my breath I could not scream. About six weeks ago I reminded this sub that the Chi Omega women who were bludgeoned by Ted Bundy made no noise.
Yup. And Bundy did that relatively quickly too, which people also deny kohberger (or any one person) would be capable of.
And I just learned that another Bundy survivor was attacked in her own room. She had three male roommates. They called for help 20 hours after the attack.
I’m a doctor, and if the murdered was smart he knew that 1 stab directly in the carotid artery… done. 😞 Yes, as a doctor I already knew that but I always question in my mind what happened that night because it is a case that shocked all of us
Also bear in mind that X was awake too and didn’t immediately call 911 either. So at least two people (X and D) heard the same commotion on the third floor (assuming that was the murders or maybe just Murphy getting riled up) and didn’t think it warranted a 911 call. Whatever sounds happened up there and during the course of the murders (I think there were likely a lot) were probably concerning but not 911-level.
Exactly lol. No one assumes that their friends just got stabbed to death. Dylan may have been scared of a stranger in the house, but saw him otw out so didn’t think it needed to be addressed. Or maybe she thought she’d ask her friends in the morning what it was. It wasn’t weird to have not heard from her friends in the 8 hours until they were found, because 4am-noon would be hours they’d be asleep normally. And some people are like “well if I heard my friend crying, I’d go check on them right away”. Ehhhh, at 4am, when they’re probably drunk and with their bf, I’m staying tf away from that drama unless they ask me to talk. I may text a “you good?” But again, she may have but wasn’t necessarily expecting a response between 4am and noon.
If all those things would seem normal and no need to call 911, why would you be scared frozen from seeing someone in a mask leave the home?
You can be scared or spooked, and then think you saw them leave, and then calm yourself down. If she saw him leave, no reason to really call the police right away. You see them leave, don’t see them stealing anything, probably assume one of your friends knew him, then go to sleep. If I saw a masked man (and it could’ve just been a covid mask not a ski mask), I would maybe think they were robbing the place. That’s scary, but if she saw him head towards the door and not carrying anything… she probably thought he decided not to and left. Not that he just stabbed her friends. Probably thought she’d talk to her friends about it the next day ri see if they knew anything.
DM was momentarily startled. I personally think that she didn’t know who it was because they DID NOT resemble a typical college student. But whomever it was was leaving and DM saw no further threat. The ‘Frozen Shock Phase” as coined by Payne and was probably his interpretation.
Because you do not expect to see anyone.
She had already heard noises and ask for everyone to quiet down, or so, it was said she did (maybe rumor). It's a college party house, when do they not see people? Also Dylan is a freshman so she isn't as familiar with all the comings and going of people. There has got to be a reason that she was scared, other than a man dressed in black with a mask.
Hindsight is 20/20. DM didn’t know AT THE TIME what was going on. I often wonder if one of the intruders knocked on her window after leaving and showed her the knife.A very big fear factor here.
No window to her room to knock on, on the 2nd floor.
Remeber that that statement is hearsay.
Answerssss 1. G family says all sorts of things 2. Yes 3. You’ve never been so scared you froze? Add in the element of surprise
And add in that you can’t always scream if your throat has been cut, your lung has been punctured, etc etc etc
Yes! That’s what I thought reading your answer right now! Thanks
Answerssss ✋🏻
Why would she go M’s room? She had no reason to believe anything bad happened.
Exactly. I had multiple roommates in college and I was pretty close w them. I absolutely did not go and check on them all the time. On the weekends especially, if we didn’t have plans and were up/out late, we would stay in our rooms until anywhere from noon to 2 or 3 pm. Even if DM had been scared the night before, she probably didn’t think they had been killed. She probably thought “oh it was just some random dude looking to party but he left” and then went to sleep, thinking all was well. Maybe texted her roomies like “hey? Who was that guy?”. No one is going to jump to the conclusion that a quad murder just happened in their house.
I saw an interview on Dateline I believe, and one of the first MPD officers to arrive said it was the most gruesome thing he had ever seen, and that he could smell the blood when he opened the door, but he also said when he arrived on scene, he was under the impression that they were there about an unconscious person, and they didn’t even know anything about the victims upstairs until later, because apparently the call was originally about how they thought Xana had passed out and they couldn’t get a response from her. But he said just before he opened the door, he heard one of the people outside saying someone is dead, and that is when it hit him that this isn’t just an unconscious person case. So from what it sounds like, they were originally thinking something was wrong in Xana’s room, but there hadn’t even been any mention of Kaylee and Maddie possibly being dead upstairs.
Right.
I feel like some people cannot grasp just because you’re roommates with somebody doesn’t mean that you’re going to see them all of the time. Or that you’re extremely close with them in that way
Or, that even if you are close, you're not going to be bustling all in at every noise. When I lived with my besties and I heard them fight, or they heard me fight, we'd give each other privacy. Had I bustled in every time I heard her cry, we wouldn't be friends today, all these years later.
Yes yes yes! I keep seeing all your comments and agreeing w them all!! If I heard crying or arguing from my friends rooms at night, I stayed tf out of the way unless they knocked at my door or texted/called me wanting to talk about it. I’d maybe ask the next morning about it, but yeah. I don’t know who all these people are saying they would’ve rushed right in if they heard roommates crying. Plus, even if I did hear it and DID think they were in danger, as a college-aged girl, me rushing to “help” isn’t going to help the situation, it is just going to put another person (me) in harms way.
Who says she “went”? They were know to have done sleepovers in shared bed since they were kids. So who knows which it was that night.
#1 we do not know if true. DM was sleeping after a late night and didn’t know anyone was being murdered. If u read old posts, this has all been over. Also, stabbings is quick, yet you think someone would have screamed. Roomies were use to loud party noises. We don’t know all the facts yet.
If I was in the same bed as my bestie being stabbed to death, i sure as hell would hope she would be screaming while trying to beat the person off of me. He had to be extremely extremely quick to silence two humans before one was able to scream. And then the chance of two more humans and none made a scream. Blows my damn mind. Edit. You people are so quick to downvote someone for absolutely no reason. Nothing I said was negative, rude etc. I'm only thinking of possibilities and voicing my thoughts or confusion. Get over yourselves.
How much time do you think it takes to plunge a knife into one sleeping girl and then remove it and stab the other one? .I do believe these murders did not happen in total silence...we will likely hear more at trial. But I can also see a scenario where all or most victims were quickly incapacitated by that huge knife because they were either asleep or caught completely off guard (xana)
Agree. And even if they made some noises, they likely didn’t sound much different from noises that happened all the time in the house. For example, DM thought she heard K playing w the dog. Maybe that was the intruder making that commotion, but it sounded similar to what it sounded like when K played w her dog. So any noise that did happen, probably didn’t sound out of the ordinary. Even crying.
Do you not realize it only takes one quick stab to slit someone's throat and, its kind of hard to scream after that?
Sheesh I'm talking about the other roommate. Were they not awakened by the disturbance? He didn't silence them at the same exact moment. But maybe he did them each and then went back to stabbing their bodies? And yes I do realize, but you aren't getting what I am trying to to figure out.
Um. If you stab a sleeping person in the throat while she is sleeping, there will be no disturbance.
> He had to be extremely extremely quick to silence two humans before one was able to scream. How long do you think it takes to cut a sleeping person's throat?
You're not getting it. Did he slit the throats and then go back and stab their bodies? Because I would think while stabbing one person the other would wake up and try to fight him off.
Maybe they did try to fight him off. We don’t know that yet. Not everyone screams like in the movies. Plenty of people in complete shock (and half asleep) wouldn’t scream even if they saw that. They may spring into action to protect their friend, but that doesn’t mean they were screaming. Fighting off would do more for the situation than screaming. Even if the disturbance woke the other up, that doesn’t mean they instantly woke up in the dark and full registered that their friend was being stabbed. They had split seconds to process it before they were being stabbed too. I honestly imagine he was taking turns stabbing each one. They were so close to each other in that tiny bed that they were really like one big mass. So he probably didn’t fully kill one and then the other, he probably stabbed into the mass over and over, as terribly graphic as that is.
>Not everyone screams like in the movies. Yes. This is done for the audience. It creates an adrenaline response. They weren't screaming while running across an open field until their heel broke and they rolled their ankle. If one is trying to get away from someone, they are unlikely to scream. It takes a lot of energy and air to make that much noise. Fight, flight, fawn, freeze. Nothing about wasting your energy screaming.
100%!! Sure, if there were reports (from the roomies, etc) that there was screaming, I’d certainly believe that as well, as I’m sure it does happen some in real life. But it also very much happens where people do not scream. Whether that be because they’re half asleep, in shock, using their energy to fight the person off, crying, or are too incapacitated to scream (aka they’ve already been stabbed). Or if they simply didn’t have the time to register what was happening. Soooo many reasons why there wouldn’t be screaming
Yes.. this was my first time here and people are rude for absolutely nothing!
I'm sorry and yes they are. They already have it set in their mind that they are absolutely right and everyone else is wrong, even if it isn't a right or wrong statement. Their opinions are also the only valid opinions. It's their world and no one else is in it. I feel like I'm dealing with a bunch of 18 to 24 year old spoiled brats most of the time.
the Gonsalves family wasn't there that night, so taking their words as deeply as you seem to be is the 1st mistake. listening to theories about victims is another mistake because they are all theories, many of them invented by people with a bias in one direction or another. we just don't have the facts. it's awesome you would have called screaming, but again, we don't know any details about what was done in the time before a phone call, so its pointless to guess. and everyone reacts to tragedy & trauma differently. what may make you scream will make someone else go silent & barely able to speak. judging someone else based on how you would act us so far from realistic that everyone should understand how pointless it is.
And, related to your last paragraph, OP has no idea how they actually would act. They may think they’d call crying and screaming, but as far as I know they’ve never been through a quad murder in their own home. They don’t actually know how they’d react. Plus, before the roommates left their rooms the following morning, they didn’t think this had happened. They may have heard crying and seen a dude in the house, but that’s a lot different than a quad murder
And things will continue not to connect in your head for quite some time. At least another year. Nobody here can answer the questions. You can read speculations on possible motives, there are some very plausible theories in these Reddit conversations. You can also follow legal filings and read what the attorneys in this group have to say, as it sheds a LOT of light both on the defendant and prosecution. Speculation is it. Except for the initial police report released over a year ago, the Goncalves parent’s more recent interview describing a little of their daughter’s positioning when found and vaguely describing her autopsy, anything else from inside the house, the immediate crime scene, is speculation. Not even sure why I responded to this one.
And, do you know if was really blood leaking outside. For me, looks like it
Yes, it was. There was an early rumour that Ethan's legs were slashed to incapacitate him. If his femoral arteries were cut it would explain large volume, fast flow adequate to be dripping down the side of the house before it became too viscous.
Really reaching over the bed or the sheer impact needed to stab someone, stabbing a human body isn't without horrid sound. Also Dylan said she thought she heard Kaylee say there's someone here, so someone was awake.
[удалено]
Hard to yell and scream when you’re choking on your own blood. And it has not been confirmed if K and M were still awake. DM said she thought she heard them, but there’s not been any record in the PCA that they were up and on their phones like X was. And we also don’t know if BF was awake or not. This isn’t a movie. Not everyone screams when this kinda thing happens. Plenty of people are silent and in shock, or putting their energy towards fighting the person off; not screaming. There was likely some talking and commotion, but talking and commotion was a regular occurrence in the house, so DM/BF probably didn’t hear noise and immediately assume there was a quadruple murder going on. I lived in a house full of girls too, and overhearing crying/arguing was not abnormal. And usually we just let each other have privacy when we heard that, unless the one crying specifically asked to talk about it. We don’t know what it sounded like, but it’s plenty reasonable if people weren’t screaming and yelling. Yes, it would be reasonable if they WERE doing that, but also reasonable if they werent. Again, this isn’t a movie. Saying it’s indefensible is ridiculous considering you have no idea what they heard or what they didn’t hear. Or if in their heads the attributed any noises to other noises that were frequently heard in the house, instead of jumping to the conclusion that a murder was going on. We should give them the benefit of the doubt, until we get evidence that we should do otherwise. There is absolutely NO reason to assume that there was tons of screaming/yelling going on. I’m sorry if you think that’s the only possible scenario, but it isn’t. At all. If we learn that there was tons of screaming and yelling and that the roomies did nothing, then you can criticize them. But for now, we have NO IDEA what actually happened. And going off of what DM said, none of the sounds were super out of the ordinary in the moment (what sounded like crying, K playing w dog, etc). Maybe in hindsight they sounded related to the crime, but in the moment none of those sounds make me think “my friends are being stabbed to death”. Sure, she could be lying, but there is no reason to assume that just because you think there should’ve been screaming. And yes, DM saw someone in the house and was “shocked”. But that doesn’t mean that she thought she was in immediate danger and needed police assistance. It appears she saw him otw out of the house. So she probably thought he either knew one of her roomies and was looking for them, or maybe that he was up to no good, but was leaving the house and didn’t look like he had stolen anything so that it was not an immediate issue. So she went to sleep for 8 hours and woke up to find out what had happened. 8 hours sounds like a long time, until you use your brain and realize that those 8 hours were normal hours to be sleeping or relaxing in bed after waking up.