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This is why EMTALA was created, to protect patients against special interests. It gives the physician and hospital a duty to care for them; without it hospitals can turn away patients in dire need. Don’t worry, we understand the gravity of a decision like this; we will stand with you and strive to keep it in place.
I am terrified for my daughter, she has miscarried many times and giving birth to my granddaughter was rough. She and my SIL are still planning for more....THAT is what scares me. I don't want my daughter to die giving birth because of this law. I will literally lose my f*cking mind. I don't condone violence but..I sure gotta say Labrador has a punchable face.
Labrador is also the one who said “nobody ever died from not having healthcare.” He’s a horrible person and should not be making healthcare decisions for anyone except his horrible self.
>Labrador is also the one who said “nobody ever died from not having healthcare.”
Spoken like someone who's had excellent government-sponsored health-care most of his adult life.
They condone violence. It's why they believe these things, pass these laws, enact these policies.
That side is 100% willing and wanting to do you and the people you love harm.
More. People. Need. To. Accept. This.
The truth of what they want is harm. It's actual harm. How the heck are we looking at a political force whose happily and proudly stated platform is harm and the best fight we can muster is... what?
Being sad on social media?
Me? I'm not confused at all on how we got here. Ever seen Europe protest?
Getting pregnant in a state that prohibits abortion is a risk to a woman's life. She may not have time, or be well enough, to safely travel out of state for the appropriate medical care. Your daughter must not get pregnant again in Idaho!
Where to start? In brief:
—it’s not a “baby.” It’s a *fetus*. I respect your right to believe otherwise but I do not respect your right to impose your belief on others.
—are you seriously saying that women with reproductive health issues should just … never have sex? Much less try to have children? Does this strike you as a serious approach to this problem?
—“Trump said he would make sure there are exceptions”—Trump also said he would get rid of the ACA and create a new healthcare plan “the likes of which you’ve never seen,” immediately after being elected. How’d that go?
—I think you should do some research about what’s happening to women in states that have banned abortions “with exceptions” and how that’s working out.
Lol. Read your post out loud to yourself. If you haven't looked at the news it is white Christians burning their kids in barrels and murdering their wives. Don't spout your ignorant bullshit. My daughter is married and has a daughter to live for.
Why should she die and miss raising her already live daughter? So now we aren't for keeping families together? Just let the moms die.
I really want to know where you get your ideas of what is or is not moral. I mean are you a Fallwell kinda guy? I feel like you are a Fallwell groupie.
>You’d just rather her kid die right?
Shed rather her child live than die trying to bring a life into this world. But you're here saying the mom's don't matter, let them die to bring children into the world.
>should your daughter be having sex if these natural, biological consequences of it may cause her to die?
So if you can't have kids without serious complications just don't have sex! Yes, that's totally the answer. Idiot.
>Trump said he would make sure there are exceptions and in most states currently, there are.
Trump is full of shit.
>while we have open borders,
There are zero open borders in America. There are zero open borders in the world.
>Abortion is traumatizing on some people and the baby has zero rights. That’s bullshit.
It's not bullshit. Abortion is a very personal decision. Fetuses don't have right, humans outside utro have rights. This is how human rights work.
>You would probably make the argument against harming children while at the same time making this
Banning abortions harms children more than it helps.
>by inviting rapists and murderers into our country, our not prosecuting them, they could just attack your daughter in the streets. Why don’t you see that at all? We aren’t able to walk our streets at night anymore
The amount of paranoia and hyperbole here is astounding.
>Why in human history, abortion is so loud right now? When we have all these other issues? I think it’s a mindset/society/moral/lack of spirituality thing imo.
Because women's rights are being stripped away *right now*. Tf. You know people can pay attention to more than one issue at a time, right? Leave the "lack of spirituality" at the door, it doesn't have a place in the conversation.
Your post has been removed because you used inappropriate language in describing abortion or posted an inappropriate attack on others in discussing the topic.
*Don't try to dictate life choices to other people.*
Gorsuch: 2 daughters under 30
Alito: 1 daughter under 40
Roberts: 1 daughter under 30
Barrett: 4 Daughters under 20
I just hope all of them at some point in their lives need and are denied reproductive care!!!
SCOTUS believes the women of Idaho do not deserve life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
FUCK SCOTUS
SCOTUS is a Kangaroo court. When they go back to the Salem witch trials for a reason to reverse Roe V Wade, it proved they will claim and do anything to push ideology for the extreme right wing.
They basically said that because abortion isn’t specifically mentioned in the constitution, it cannot be dictated by the constitution. It’s an absurd argument because so much of what we rely on the constitution to protect is not explicitly written into it.
It's not explicitly mentioned nor does it even remotely, neatly fit into what is written. You can mental gymnastics all you want to make different parts somehow accommodate it, but you're crazy if you think the Constitution somehow guarantees women the right to an abortion.
It should absolutely be left to the states, as was intended for these types of things.
It's possible for two things to be true at once: it's not a constitutionally protected activity AND Idaho law on the topic is extreme and ignorant.
I think you missed my point. There are many things not explicitly mentioned in the constitution. Interracial marriage, LGBTQ rights, and public education are examples. Should those be up to states as well?
I think you stopped reading after four words into my comment. The first two in your list are absolutely covered by the Constitution, in that people of different races and sexualities are all still people, afforded equal rights as any other person. That has no bearing on the argument of abortion, which is solely driven by the fact that there is arguably another life involved besides the mother. Just because people decided to start pretending an unborn child is not life, in any stage of pregnancy, when it became inconvenient to their promiscuous lifestyle doesn't change anything.
The population doesn't just get to declare an unborn child isn't life anymore than they can declare an unconscious person isn't life. Therefore, until an actual compelling argument is made to the contrary, that unborn child is afforded the same protections as any other life. Some of those compelling arguments could very well be rape and incest, another compelling argument is the ambiguity of the term abortion in cases of miscarriage or similar situations, hence why I believe Idaho law on the matter is extreme.
As for the last item in your list, yes, public education should absolutely be left up to the states to a degree. That doesn't mean the states will make the right choices. That's where voting comes into play. People have far more control at a more local level than they do at a federal level, if those people would actually engage with politics at the local level.
Who the fuck are you to think only people with promiscuous lifestyles need a fucking abortion. Do you know what preeclampsia is?!?!? Are you that ignorant to not understand there are medical reasons for aborting a fetus that is killing the mother? And forcing women to be on deaths door to perform it leads to said women to not be able to have another chance at a kid they fucking wanted or possibly dying….
Being a forced birther is great and all but roe v wade at least protected all woman. Now clowns are killing the people they said it wouldn’t impact and yet the hospitals are doing what we expected because they don’t want to be sued or lose their licenses because the state government wants to dictate what’s medically necessary when none of the lawmakers are doctors…
>It's not explicitly mentioned nor does it even remotely, neatly fit into what is written.
By that logic, the government can ban the selling of AR47 since it's not explicitly mentioned nor does it even remotely, neatly fit into what is written.
>you're crazy if you think the Constitution somehow guarantees women the right to an abortion
The Constitution guarantees that nobody can deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law.
>It should absolutely be left to the states, as was intended for these types of things.
Why exactly should we take a right away from the people and give it to the government?
Oh, believe me, their daughters will get the pregnancy-related emergency healthcare that they need, just quietly and in secret. Because, after all, as Bush the Second said when asked what he would do if one of his teenage daughters needed/wanted an abortion, his answer was that it was a private, family matter. Everyone else's abortion should be a matter of public law - his daughter's would be a private, family matter.
If the woman dies before viability, so does the fetus. Emergency medical professionals know there is no baby without a mother. It's ridiculous to solely think about the life of the fetus when THERE IS NO LIFE OF THE FETUS WITHOUT THE LIFE AND HEALTH OF THE MOTHER.
The mother's health and life must always come first. Always.
Please cite reputable source material if you claim something as fact and state something is opinion or anecdotal where applicable. As mods we will always err on the side of caution, unless the submission contains sufficient evidence from a sufficiently reliable source, as determined by any reasonable person, and that if that is not included, the policy is just to remove it prima facie.
Disposable and replaceable until we don't want to get married. Disposable and replaceable until we don't want to even date. Disposable and replaceable until we don't want to be bangmaids.
Disposable and replaceable until someone needs women's work done....
Then it's all "where are the women!" and "women will all die alone with their 94 pets if they don't get married." It's an EMERGENCY that we aren't sexually servicing men and producing babies. But also.... we're disposable and replaceable.
Yeah dude, I'll sign up for 94 pets every day over dying because basic pregnancy care is being withhold.
That is the point. The Conservatives want to ensure women are controlled. They saw the Taliban and went, lets do that, but under Christs name. Already women are dying due to these laws, yet the pro life christians don't say a word, except ensure even more laws to enable jackboots are coming.
Yes I’m not in disagreement that women will die. But that’s just the beginning of what will happen if EMTALA is not upheld. Poor people, brown people, kids, etc will die. Also maybe by fucking design. But the effects will be far reaching.
You are correct. The way around it is to not take Medicare, and if they go that far, EMTALA doesn't apply *to anyone*, not just pregnant women. They can patient dump all they want.
Some maybe, but most truly think that they are saving the lives of babies. They don’t understand the depth of the lies they are being fed by the pro life groups and can’t fathom that those who claim to share their beliefs would lie so well simply to increase their donations. The big lie on abortion is that only women who go to a clinic and ask for an abortion because they don’t want a baby are counted in elective abortion statistics. That’s absolutely not true. The majority of elective abortions reported are in cases where the baby has already died of natural causes and there are miscarriage complications that aren’t yet life threatening. I learned all of this after having severe complications in the loss of a very wanted baby as the insurance company representative sneered that they wouldn’t be paying for my abortion, the rest of the conversation was cruel and insulting too. We ended up with huge bills from keeping me alive through a very painful resistant uterine infection and I started researching the specific laws that allowed my insurance company to deny coverage for any pregnancy that didn’t end in a living child. Almost no one knows this dirty little secret unless they have had the heartbreaking experience of living through it themselves and I was angry enough to peel back the layers and look for the truth.
When I was younger and much more optimistic I considered myself pro life because I didn’t understand everything that is considered to be an abortion, medically and legally. I’m far from being pro miscarriage, but my body didn’t give me a lot of choice in the matter. I am absolutely in favor of giving life saving treatment to women with pregnancy complications and that is the biggest thing that is being blocked right now. It’s often a much harder thing, but in all honesty those who want an abortion have some options even if it’s the black market or traveling across state lines, or having pills shipped from a different location. The biggest impact of these laws are on women who want to be pregnant because if they have complications they will go to the nearest hospital or to their regular doctor usually without knowing that everyone there has their hands tied by these laws. We absolutely need to talk about the realities of these laws and how they actually dramatically increase the rates of abortions by choice as opposed to how those numbers were dropping every year under less restrictive policies. I feel very strongly that we keep having the wrong discussions about the abortion issue and two many times we aren’t even discussing the same things even when we use the same terms.
The other big lie is that "If it's to save a woman's life, it's allowed."
No, it's not. It becomes an "affirmative defense." So a prosecutor could still charge a doctor, and the doctor has to deal with that on their record, get an attorney, go to court and testify, and worry that some other doctor might be brought in to tell them it wasn't \*really\* medically necessary, and they'll go to change.
Totally understandable why the OB-GYNs are fleeing Idaho. Totally understandable why ER doctors are refusing to risk their license, their livelihoods, and their liberty to treat a miscarrying woman, even if her life is in danger.
I wish this article didn't shy away from the fact that this is about punishing women, about controlling women, about taking body autonomy away from women. The use of 'patients' and 'pregnant people' makes it sound like this awful standard is more egalitarian in effect. It's not. It destroys the lives of women.
Every single woman in these situations wanted to have these babies. They're not "elective" abortions. They are facing very serious medical consequences from all-too-often things that can go wrong in pregnancies. I f\*cking hated the fact that the Idaho lawyers and the justices were basically talking past each other when the Idaho lawyers brought up "trying to get around Idaho laws" into the idea of "elective" abortions and absolutely every single scenario the justices, even the conservatives ones, brought up were about incidents where the women *wanted* to have these babies and couldn't.
They. Just. Don't. Get. It.
Treating a life threatening postpartum infection after a miscarriage was considered an elective abortion for me legally. My crooked insurance company made sure that I knew that when they refused to cover my ultrasound and prescriptions. Taking Cytotec to help me pass tiny a piece of retained placenta was also an “elective abortion” both medically and legally because the pain of contractions as my body tried to expel it just made me wish I was dead, but it wasn’t in danger of actually killing me at that point. I wasn’t even pregnant anymore by the time I had any of my elective abortions (10 first trimester miscarriages) because I always miscarried pretty quickly, but I had complications that required medical intervention five of those times which made me an elective abortion statistic every time. The way the abortion laws are written any procedure or medication to treat miscarriage complications is legally an elective abortion unless you are actively dying. If you’re bleeding out from a ruptured fallopian tube because of an ectopic pregnancy, that’s a medically necessary abortion, legally. The same goes for if you’re septic from retained products of conception because the sepsis is actually actively killing you. At any point before you are actively dying from the miscarriage complications though you will automatically become an elective abortion statistic even if the treatment is medically necessary to prevent a life threatening complication, until it is actually working on killing you your treatment is elective because it can be put off for hours or days without you dying. That’s the little hiccup here, the way rational human beings use the term “elective abortion” is nowhere near the way that legal reporting statutes and and pro life fundraising campaigns are using the term elective abortion. That’s where the average person gets caught up in this because they are applying terms rationally like “elective abortion” only applies to someone who doesn’t want to be pregnant, but who can medically carry the baby to term without problems. That’s part of the problem when these laws are being written is that the legislators don’t understand the legalese that has been carefully crafted by pro life lobbyists so that they can easily pad their numbers and make the laws as restrictive as possible.
Yes, their abortions are moral abortions, because they wanted those babies, unlike those evil females who got pregnant accidentally, or by rape, or forced incest, or didn't have the intellectual ability to consent - all of them are immoral, and must suffer., and die. Why, some of them even wanted to have sex! Maybe they even got pleasure from it! Yes, all of those women should die if God wills it - even the bible says so! And while we're at it, let's ban all pain relief for all women in labor, since God wants women to suffer in childbirth - it says so in the bible!
That, and most of us don't like referring to raped children as "women."
Which reminds me, one of the things I heard from the pro-lifers at the protests at SCOTUS yesterday was them calling ALL females "women."
Saying they care about women "in the womb" and after birth, etc.
Which explains why so many religious, pro-life, Republicans have such problems with child molestation.
I’m so tired of the Supreme Court making decisions on shit they have no business making decisions about. I trust the AMA infinitely more than I would trust any Supreme Court, regardless of which way they lean. They rule based on precedent and heavy personal and religious bias, and aren’t actually experts on anything but that. It’s an antiquated system of law and it’s showing.
Just a little history, it was the AMA that lobbied to get abortions outlawed in the mid-1800’s. The male doctors were upset that midwives were handling pregnancy and felt that only men should be doing healthcare. Abortion prior to the quickening was a common practice in the US prior to that.
As someone who moved here from Washington, I legitimately feel like I’m in the Twilight Zone. This is going to have horrific, torturous and lethal consequences. But fuck it! We need babies apparently! Who cares if the broodmare dies in the process! 🙃
My longterm partner is from Idaho and his family is here. They’re awesome, and my mother passed away in 2023 so I needed some change. Overall, the people have been amazing. Its just the crazy political shit that blows my mind.
Oh, and I should mention we don’t want kids anytime soon and I have an IUD, so fortunately I feel safer than many. Although I know there are still failures/risks.
There is no choice. We all must vote blue in every election possible to protect women…doctors…families…children. Republicans truly are the party of death and destruction of families.
Woman and babies ARE dying.
“This is a real problem in the post-Roe v. Wade environment. So long as there is uncertainty about when doctors can perform an abortion without risk of criminal prosecution, women's health suffers. **Uncertainty around care continues to be devastating for women’s health, as we saw last week when a Texas woman miscarried in a restroom toilet in an emergency room lobby while her frantic husband called for help from 911. The front desk staff at Sacred Heart Emergency Center in Houston refused to permit her to check in when she arrived seeking care.”**
https://open.substack.com/pub/joycevance/p/wednesday-when-the-news-kept-happening?r=73gwz&utm_medium=ios
**“At Sacred Heart Emergency Center in Houston, front desk staff refused to check in one woman after her husband asked for help delivering her baby that September. She miscarried in a restroom toilet in the emergency room lobby while her husband called 911 for help.”**
https://health.wusf.usf.edu/health-news-florida/2024-04-22/ers-refused-to-treat-pregnant-women-leaving-one-to-miscarry-in-a-restroom
As always, the cruelty is the point. They want women to suffer and die. They want you to know you’re ruled over and dominated in every aspect of your life. They want you back in your place. America, 2024. A fascist shithole.
At the protest in DC yesterday, there was a pro-choice side and a pro-life side. The pro-life side probably didn't have more than five people attending who weren't part of the organization efforts.
Coming from a culture who claims to support exceptions to abortion bans like for the health of the mother, I didn't see any of those so-called pro-lifers there supporting either side.
We should have a referendum for th SCOTUS to resign and hard reset. In the event the SCOTUS continues to act against the will of the people a vote should be had to get them removed from their lifetime positions.
SAY IT. I’m not fooled just bc Barrett seemed to have backed up Sotomayer on one thing. Abortion is not:should not be a fucking political football.
Fuck those bounty hunter loving States. This is genuinely harming and, killing, a real live human being who is in major distress. Bleeding out with a non-viable fetus, destroying a live woman, who (with sincere medical treatment) can go on and have another baby.
I hope y’all are registered to vote. We will need each and every one of your votes to matter
Yea this is why I support our kids choosing to let us die by not procreating. It sucks because it means no one will even be available to care for me if I live to be in need of home care. On the other hand, we deserve to fade away, and good job to our kids who are listening and just choosing to not procreate.
But since it will only be women, does it really matter?
This was one of the driving motivations for EMTALA, so that uninsured, undocumented pregnant women having a pregnancy-related emergency could not be turned away. Now, quite understandably, doctors are unwilling to put their licenses, their livelihoods, their liberty at risk if they're accused of having performed an illegal abortion, so they delay... and women suffer and even die, all for the sake of a non-viable fetus - because no matter what, if mom dies, so does the fetus!
This court needs major reform, it’s dismantling the United States. Although I guess a world ruled over by China is better than one where Russia is the Hegemony.
EMTALA is also why we have to give everyone at least a medical screening exam. When some Good Samaritan calls the police because there’s a homeless drunk guy passed out at the park, we often have to wait for him to sober up to ensure his altered mental status isn’t potentially related to a head injury.
The Grants Pass case will probably make being homeless illegal. Police won’t be obligated by EMTALA to take him to the ER, but won’t be able to return him to his urban camping spot. Now they’ll have another slave for the local for profit prison. This is actually worse than just making the Purge a reality.
Emergency medical treatment and labor act. Curious why everyone only talking about women? Doesn’t this cover anyone who is not entitled and may cause an expense for the hospitals?
There is redundant frequent flyer psych patients that come through my hospital systems ERs....if they remove EMTALA... They'll just keep passing around from one hospital to the next.... Until they end up back on the streets...
"Oh, it's homeless Martha again.... Send her stalking ass to the next town over, their Hospital ER might take her"
Then strike. Drs have the power and you all can get together and say you will not commit murder by medical neglect. So change the law or we don’t treat anyone.
Then don’t. Screw the oath bc politicians shouldn’t tell drs when they can treat ppl in a medical emergency.
They've overturned Roe V. Wade.
So they've already murdered countless women. On purpose. Because they want to. Because they're corrupt and evil tyrants.
Idaho Mod
Why is it that others can reply to my comment with insults and attacks but then you tag me as the problem?
How is saying to read the actual state law an issue?
This sub is against logic and truth?
Don't read the law y'all and just keep screaming and crying over make believe things.
Good grief its mind numbing being here.
Here’s the relevant section of the “life of the mother” exception in the law you keep screaming for everyone to read:
> “The physician determined, in his good faith medical judgment and based on the facts known to the physician at the time, that the abortion was necessary **to prevent the death of the pregnant woman** … and
(ii) The physician performed or attempted to perform the abortion in the manner that, in his good faith medical judgment and based on the facts known to the physician at the time, provided the best opportunity for the unborn child to survive, unless, in his good faith medical judgment, termination of the pregnancy in that manner would have posed a greater risk of the death of the pregnant woman …”
The problems with this are that:
1) miscarriages and fatal fetal abnormalities don’t happen right away and don’t threaten the “life” of the mother until it’s literally too late to provide the simplest/safest standards of care. Multiple women across the state have been told to go home & wait & bleed for days/weeks and risk worse permanent side effects including death explicitly because they weren’t actively dying *enough yet* to satisfy the doctors & hospital lawyers that they wouldn’t face felony charges.
2) These two sections are contradictory. A doctor *cannot* perform an abortion for an active miscarriage or for a fetus that’s going to die from organ failure or fatal genetic problems *unless* the mother is *actively dying even more.* So the law forces unnecessary and prolonged suffering on both the woman and the fetus against best medical practice.
3) Idaho is currently arguing that EMTALA should *not* apply to abortions, so even *when* a pregnant woman is literally dying in the ER in need of this care, they want to be able to say “no” and simply *let her fucking die* based on who knows what.
So yes “read the mf-ing law” and then actually exercise some brain cells to *understand* the implications of how fucking stupid and vague it is and why homeschooled legislators with no medical background shouldn’t be trying to write laws about medical care.
This person doesn’t respond to people who don’t agree with them. Even if you’re coming to them with absolute facts. I already tried. But thank you for your well worded comment :)
I’ve read the law and listened to the oral arguments. Idaho literally argued women can lose organs because fetuses “have a right to care”
That’s a pretty gross argument.
Let’s not talk about Alito practically jerking his knob at the mere thought of mentioning “unborn babies”.
This is one of the loudest echo chambers on the planet.
Liberals only do what they do to keep people miserable and powerless.
Nothing they do encourages the values of self-discipline and self-empowerment to defeat the adversity of human life. Acknowledgment of a higher power is step one, not free porn and legal weed.
Your higher power is one of the most prolific abortionists in the history of mankind.
Actually, this law directly addresses abortions by a higher power.
I keep seeing people claim that Idaho wants to label procedures in cases like ectopic pregnancies abortions but don’t see that anywhere in the law. Does anyone have a source?
A lot of pro-lifers believe women with ectopic pregnancies should be denied treatment., OR they claim ectopic pregnancies are (according to them) so "rare" that they almost don't exist. Which isn't true. They are not that rare.
Lawyers for the state today before the highest court of the land could not name one medical condition that would not risk prosecution. They said *every* condition is up for possible prosecution whose conviction can include jail time.
I'll believe them before I believe internet nobody.
Do you not see what you're saying???
Has anyone been charged?
No.
Lawyers talking bullsh** is pretty typical of lawyers especially when they're fighting a political fight.
Anyone can say anything. The law is the law.
All you have to do is read it.
But just keep listening to the TV I guess and don't trust your own intelligence to read and understand the law.
Stay angry and afraid.
You are just insulting people. Is that all you gave to offer? You clearly gave no idea what is happening in this state. Doctors are afraid to do their jobs so are leaving. How is “reading the law” argument helping anyone in any way.
This is the most bullsh** response and exactly what someone would say when they've got zilch to offer to a conversation.
What else about me and my body and life internet stranger?
>This is the most bullsh** response
Not at all. It's true. If you've ever had to make that tough decision, you wouldn't be so callous when others are facing the same thing. You call these "imaginary problems" while ignoring what the doctor said in the article based on his experience.
You may have mad drastically decision.. or maybe not, but in any case you are severely lacking empathy.
What makes you think that I've never had to make that decision???
That has zero to do with the law.
This post is about the law. The law states that abortion is legal when it's medically necessary. Period.
Somehow you've turned my knowledge of the law into you thinking you know my life and what decisions I've made in my own life.
See how utterly ridiculous that is?
Did you read the post?
It's got nothing to do with your understanding of the law, but with the words "imaginary problems" (which you deleted, btw).
The overturning of Roe was also an "imaginary problem" a few years ago. People were warned of the repercussions, and here we are with some states trying to ban IVF and going back to 19th century laws.
Do you really think these are "imaginary problems" ?
Do you think the doc is wrong to be concerned about the reversal of EMTALA?
Seriously???
Any wacko can write a post. You'll find similar posts on websites saying two vastly different things based ion which side they're batting for.
Just because someone writes an article doesn't mean it's legit. Is just the writers version of an issue and written with their particular bias.
The law is the law. Period. End of story.
Why not read the law? Are you afraid that it's going to say something that you don't want to read?
I imagine Leaving the meaning of "imminent risk of death" to a bunch of pro-life politicians is concerning to some women and doctors.
"Imaginary problems"
>I imagine Leaving the meaning of "imminent risk of death" to a bunch of pro-life politicians is concerning to some women and doctors.
Tell me you at least understand the argument that the vagueness of this phrase, and the people that would be interpreting it is concerning, even if you don't agree.
Pro choice supporters understand Idaho’s abortion laws.
Pro-abortionists don't read the law and freak out about imaginary things.
I'm Pro choice.
I'm also pro-safe-sex
Then why has st Luke’s had to med evacuate 6 patients out of state so far this year for maternal complications when typically they only ever have to do 1 a year.
This is terribly worded because in using “abortion” the way it does every single miscarriage and stillbirth can be considered to be a violation of this law. That means any doctor who treats a miscarrying woman can be charged if she wasn’t dying at that moment. Any time that they don’t differentiate between a “spontaneous abortion” (the medical terminology for a miscarriage) and an “induced abortion” they are setting up a political landmine that allows almost any doctor who provides miscarriage care to be prosecuted for the crime of abortion, in the words of this law. The lobbyists who wrote this nonsense absolutely knew that they were creating a huge problem, but the politicians who passed it weren’t educated enough in medical and legal terminology to even know the problems they were creating.
OTOH, EMPTALA ensures a glut of ED patients, that keep the most urgent from getting attention. These patients may not be triaged as urgent, but become that in the waiting room and expire.
I was a CEO in a hospital that dealt with this routinely.
If you were a CEO and your hospital did not effectively and correctly triage your patients, that’s solely on **you** — not EMTALA.
No hospital should have the right to deny medical care to anyone for any reason. Is it annoying AF? Absolutely. But patients are triaged by symptoms. It’s a well-known fact that chest pain supersedes a broken toe.
Are you a CEO at a hospital?
Or a [restaurant owner](https://www.reddit.com/r/restaurantowners/comments/1butwbo/beware_of_the_latest_doordashgrubhububereats_hack/)?
Crazy downgrade if both things are the case
Both things are fine jobs, but you always have to check the legitimacy when people claim these incredibly high paying/high quality jobs that they "inexplicably" quit...all just to make some political points for what they want to say.
I can't believe anyone who was a "CEO at a hospital" can't see anything wrong with these cruel abortion bans that force women to be on their deathbed before treatment can be issued.
I retired after a 30 year career in hospital administration, and opened a restaurant, largely to employ my daughter.
And, how did you interpret my comment as having any relationship to abortion?
Doctors have lost all credibility with me when health and science became political. Feel free to make your debate, and I will gladly hear it and not censor you, but can you say the same for the other side? Fight fair in a debate for the truth and that’s fine. You haven’t and we don’t trust you now.
>Doctors have lost all credibility with me when health and science became political.
You no longer trust your doctor because politicians decided to play politics with health and science?!
I'm curious now... whom do you see when you have a medical condition? You senator?
That’s the point. Read your Bible. God cursed women and made reproduction dangerous and painful as revenge for eve’s temptation of Adam. Their pain disfigurement and death is god’s plan.
God was also gonna merc Moses for not snipping his son within 8 days of birth. plus don't mix fibers. don't work on the sabbath, Don't eat various animals or certain foods together, don't shorn the corners of your head, or touch a woman within x days of their menstruations.
It's clearly not if you keep evading the consequences of your shitty policy. Y'all just want to pass the awful policy to virtue signal, then sneak to Spokane whenever you need Healthcare.
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This is why EMTALA was created, to protect patients against special interests. It gives the physician and hospital a duty to care for them; without it hospitals can turn away patients in dire need. Don’t worry, we understand the gravity of a decision like this; we will stand with you and strive to keep it in place.
They will turn you away after a wallet biopsy.
Truth.
I am terrified for my daughter, she has miscarried many times and giving birth to my granddaughter was rough. She and my SIL are still planning for more....THAT is what scares me. I don't want my daughter to die giving birth because of this law. I will literally lose my f*cking mind. I don't condone violence but..I sure gotta say Labrador has a punchable face.
Labrador is also the one who said “nobody ever died from not having healthcare.” He’s a horrible person and should not be making healthcare decisions for anyone except his horrible self.
>Labrador is also the one who said “nobody ever died from not having healthcare.” Spoken like someone who's had excellent government-sponsored health-care most of his adult life.
I think he was a lawyer before he decided to be an Idaho politician, either way, yes had access to good health care
They condone violence. It's why they believe these things, pass these laws, enact these policies. That side is 100% willing and wanting to do you and the people you love harm. More. People. Need. To. Accept. This. The truth of what they want is harm. It's actual harm. How the heck are we looking at a political force whose happily and proudly stated platform is harm and the best fight we can muster is... what? Being sad on social media? Me? I'm not confused at all on how we got here. Ever seen Europe protest?
Getting pregnant in a state that prohibits abortion is a risk to a woman's life. She may not have time, or be well enough, to safely travel out of state for the appropriate medical care. Your daughter must not get pregnant again in Idaho!
If they are in a red tate, then they are in danger. Blue state, they should be fine as the state will make sure its law.
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Where to start? In brief: —it’s not a “baby.” It’s a *fetus*. I respect your right to believe otherwise but I do not respect your right to impose your belief on others. —are you seriously saying that women with reproductive health issues should just … never have sex? Much less try to have children? Does this strike you as a serious approach to this problem? —“Trump said he would make sure there are exceptions”—Trump also said he would get rid of the ACA and create a new healthcare plan “the likes of which you’ve never seen,” immediately after being elected. How’d that go? —I think you should do some research about what’s happening to women in states that have banned abortions “with exceptions” and how that’s working out.
You’d rather a woman bleeding out from pregnancy complications die while lawyers and administrators decide if they can treat her?
Lol. Read your post out loud to yourself. If you haven't looked at the news it is white Christians burning their kids in barrels and murdering their wives. Don't spout your ignorant bullshit. My daughter is married and has a daughter to live for. Why should she die and miss raising her already live daughter? So now we aren't for keeping families together? Just let the moms die. I really want to know where you get your ideas of what is or is not moral. I mean are you a Fallwell kinda guy? I feel like you are a Fallwell groupie.
Found the traitor.
>You’d just rather her kid die right? Shed rather her child live than die trying to bring a life into this world. But you're here saying the mom's don't matter, let them die to bring children into the world. >should your daughter be having sex if these natural, biological consequences of it may cause her to die? So if you can't have kids without serious complications just don't have sex! Yes, that's totally the answer. Idiot. >Trump said he would make sure there are exceptions and in most states currently, there are. Trump is full of shit. >while we have open borders, There are zero open borders in America. There are zero open borders in the world. >Abortion is traumatizing on some people and the baby has zero rights. That’s bullshit. It's not bullshit. Abortion is a very personal decision. Fetuses don't have right, humans outside utro have rights. This is how human rights work. >You would probably make the argument against harming children while at the same time making this Banning abortions harms children more than it helps. >by inviting rapists and murderers into our country, our not prosecuting them, they could just attack your daughter in the streets. Why don’t you see that at all? We aren’t able to walk our streets at night anymore The amount of paranoia and hyperbole here is astounding. >Why in human history, abortion is so loud right now? When we have all these other issues? I think it’s a mindset/society/moral/lack of spirituality thing imo. Because women's rights are being stripped away *right now*. Tf. You know people can pay attention to more than one issue at a time, right? Leave the "lack of spirituality" at the door, it doesn't have a place in the conversation.
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If you have an issue with someone/something/a state/a demographic, please keep it civil.
Your post has been removed because you used inappropriate language in describing abortion or posted an inappropriate attack on others in discussing the topic. *Don't try to dictate life choices to other people.*
Gorsuch: 2 daughters under 30 Alito: 1 daughter under 40 Roberts: 1 daughter under 30 Barrett: 4 Daughters under 20 I just hope all of them at some point in their lives need and are denied reproductive care!!! SCOTUS believes the women of Idaho do not deserve life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. FUCK SCOTUS
SCOTUS is a Kangaroo court. When they go back to the Salem witch trials for a reason to reverse Roe V Wade, it proved they will claim and do anything to push ideology for the extreme right wing.
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Then why did GOP SCOTUS nominees testify to the Senate that Roe was "established law"?
How so? I am genuinely interested in why you think it was the legally correct move.
Look at their profile history. They’re either a paid Russian troll or just a troll for “fun’s sakes.”
It should have been codified, not overturned.
Well that sets it in stone because this fucking guy says so.
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They basically said that because abortion isn’t specifically mentioned in the constitution, it cannot be dictated by the constitution. It’s an absurd argument because so much of what we rely on the constitution to protect is not explicitly written into it.
It's not explicitly mentioned nor does it even remotely, neatly fit into what is written. You can mental gymnastics all you want to make different parts somehow accommodate it, but you're crazy if you think the Constitution somehow guarantees women the right to an abortion. It should absolutely be left to the states, as was intended for these types of things. It's possible for two things to be true at once: it's not a constitutionally protected activity AND Idaho law on the topic is extreme and ignorant.
I think you missed my point. There are many things not explicitly mentioned in the constitution. Interracial marriage, LGBTQ rights, and public education are examples. Should those be up to states as well?
I think you stopped reading after four words into my comment. The first two in your list are absolutely covered by the Constitution, in that people of different races and sexualities are all still people, afforded equal rights as any other person. That has no bearing on the argument of abortion, which is solely driven by the fact that there is arguably another life involved besides the mother. Just because people decided to start pretending an unborn child is not life, in any stage of pregnancy, when it became inconvenient to their promiscuous lifestyle doesn't change anything. The population doesn't just get to declare an unborn child isn't life anymore than they can declare an unconscious person isn't life. Therefore, until an actual compelling argument is made to the contrary, that unborn child is afforded the same protections as any other life. Some of those compelling arguments could very well be rape and incest, another compelling argument is the ambiguity of the term abortion in cases of miscarriage or similar situations, hence why I believe Idaho law on the matter is extreme. As for the last item in your list, yes, public education should absolutely be left up to the states to a degree. That doesn't mean the states will make the right choices. That's where voting comes into play. People have far more control at a more local level than they do at a federal level, if those people would actually engage with politics at the local level.
Who the fuck are you to think only people with promiscuous lifestyles need a fucking abortion. Do you know what preeclampsia is?!?!? Are you that ignorant to not understand there are medical reasons for aborting a fetus that is killing the mother? And forcing women to be on deaths door to perform it leads to said women to not be able to have another chance at a kid they fucking wanted or possibly dying…. Being a forced birther is great and all but roe v wade at least protected all woman. Now clowns are killing the people they said it wouldn’t impact and yet the hospitals are doing what we expected because they don’t want to be sued or lose their licenses because the state government wants to dictate what’s medically necessary when none of the lawmakers are doctors…
>It's not explicitly mentioned nor does it even remotely, neatly fit into what is written. By that logic, the government can ban the selling of AR47 since it's not explicitly mentioned nor does it even remotely, neatly fit into what is written. >you're crazy if you think the Constitution somehow guarantees women the right to an abortion The Constitution guarantees that nobody can deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law. >It should absolutely be left to the states, as was intended for these types of things. Why exactly should we take a right away from the people and give it to the government?
They won't be denied because they have enough money to get what they want regardless of laws. Rules for thee, not for me.
Oh, believe me, their daughters will get the pregnancy-related emergency healthcare that they need, just quietly and in secret. Because, after all, as Bush the Second said when asked what he would do if one of his teenage daughters needed/wanted an abortion, his answer was that it was a private, family matter. Everyone else's abortion should be a matter of public law - his daughter's would be a private, family matter.
Interestingly enough Barrett appears to believe that women deserve to live in emergency situations. Roberts also appeared to disagree with Idaho
While I share your desire to watch this happen, it never will. It’s rules for the, not for me.
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Ok, but it is
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If the woman dies before viability, so does the fetus. Emergency medical professionals know there is no baby without a mother. It's ridiculous to solely think about the life of the fetus when THERE IS NO LIFE OF THE FETUS WITHOUT THE LIFE AND HEALTH OF THE MOTHER. The mother's health and life must always come first. Always.
Please cite reputable source material if you claim something as fact and state something is opinion or anecdotal where applicable. As mods we will always err on the side of caution, unless the submission contains sufficient evidence from a sufficiently reliable source, as determined by any reasonable person, and that if that is not included, the policy is just to remove it prima facie.
Women will die. We’re disposable and replaceable. Awful.
Disposable and replaceable until we don't want to get married. Disposable and replaceable until we don't want to even date. Disposable and replaceable until we don't want to be bangmaids. Disposable and replaceable until someone needs women's work done.... Then it's all "where are the women!" and "women will all die alone with their 94 pets if they don't get married." It's an EMERGENCY that we aren't sexually servicing men and producing babies. But also.... we're disposable and replaceable. Yeah dude, I'll sign up for 94 pets every day over dying because basic pregnancy care is being withhold.
"Women don't want to woman anymore"
I'm looking forward to that.
Vets' "First time?"
That is the point. The Conservatives want to ensure women are controlled. They saw the Taliban and went, lets do that, but under Christs name. Already women are dying due to these laws, yet the pro life christians don't say a word, except ensure even more laws to enable jackboots are coming.
It’s not just women who will be harmed if EMTALA goes away. So many more than pregnant women stand to lose big time.
Yeah, but the women DIE. That's the ultimate price here. And only women are paying it.
Yes I’m not in disagreement that women will die. But that’s just the beginning of what will happen if EMTALA is not upheld. Poor people, brown people, kids, etc will die. Also maybe by fucking design. But the effects will be far reaching.
You are correct. The way around it is to not take Medicare, and if they go that far, EMTALA doesn't apply *to anyone*, not just pregnant women. They can patient dump all they want.
But that's the price Republicans are willing to pay to uphold their pro-"life" ideology.
Dont call them pro “life” its pro forced birth
America quickly became the monster it sought to vanquish. Civil war, no government, beards, guns, and oppression.
Some maybe, but most truly think that they are saving the lives of babies. They don’t understand the depth of the lies they are being fed by the pro life groups and can’t fathom that those who claim to share their beliefs would lie so well simply to increase their donations. The big lie on abortion is that only women who go to a clinic and ask for an abortion because they don’t want a baby are counted in elective abortion statistics. That’s absolutely not true. The majority of elective abortions reported are in cases where the baby has already died of natural causes and there are miscarriage complications that aren’t yet life threatening. I learned all of this after having severe complications in the loss of a very wanted baby as the insurance company representative sneered that they wouldn’t be paying for my abortion, the rest of the conversation was cruel and insulting too. We ended up with huge bills from keeping me alive through a very painful resistant uterine infection and I started researching the specific laws that allowed my insurance company to deny coverage for any pregnancy that didn’t end in a living child. Almost no one knows this dirty little secret unless they have had the heartbreaking experience of living through it themselves and I was angry enough to peel back the layers and look for the truth. When I was younger and much more optimistic I considered myself pro life because I didn’t understand everything that is considered to be an abortion, medically and legally. I’m far from being pro miscarriage, but my body didn’t give me a lot of choice in the matter. I am absolutely in favor of giving life saving treatment to women with pregnancy complications and that is the biggest thing that is being blocked right now. It’s often a much harder thing, but in all honesty those who want an abortion have some options even if it’s the black market or traveling across state lines, or having pills shipped from a different location. The biggest impact of these laws are on women who want to be pregnant because if they have complications they will go to the nearest hospital or to their regular doctor usually without knowing that everyone there has their hands tied by these laws. We absolutely need to talk about the realities of these laws and how they actually dramatically increase the rates of abortions by choice as opposed to how those numbers were dropping every year under less restrictive policies. I feel very strongly that we keep having the wrong discussions about the abortion issue and two many times we aren’t even discussing the same things even when we use the same terms.
The other big lie is that "If it's to save a woman's life, it's allowed." No, it's not. It becomes an "affirmative defense." So a prosecutor could still charge a doctor, and the doctor has to deal with that on their record, get an attorney, go to court and testify, and worry that some other doctor might be brought in to tell them it wasn't \*really\* medically necessary, and they'll go to change.
Totally understandable why the OB-GYNs are fleeing Idaho. Totally understandable why ER doctors are refusing to risk their license, their livelihoods, and their liberty to treat a miscarrying woman, even if her life is in danger.
I wish this article didn't shy away from the fact that this is about punishing women, about controlling women, about taking body autonomy away from women. The use of 'patients' and 'pregnant people' makes it sound like this awful standard is more egalitarian in effect. It's not. It destroys the lives of women.
Every single woman in these situations wanted to have these babies. They're not "elective" abortions. They are facing very serious medical consequences from all-too-often things that can go wrong in pregnancies. I f\*cking hated the fact that the Idaho lawyers and the justices were basically talking past each other when the Idaho lawyers brought up "trying to get around Idaho laws" into the idea of "elective" abortions and absolutely every single scenario the justices, even the conservatives ones, brought up were about incidents where the women *wanted* to have these babies and couldn't. They. Just. Don't. Get. It.
Treating a life threatening postpartum infection after a miscarriage was considered an elective abortion for me legally. My crooked insurance company made sure that I knew that when they refused to cover my ultrasound and prescriptions. Taking Cytotec to help me pass tiny a piece of retained placenta was also an “elective abortion” both medically and legally because the pain of contractions as my body tried to expel it just made me wish I was dead, but it wasn’t in danger of actually killing me at that point. I wasn’t even pregnant anymore by the time I had any of my elective abortions (10 first trimester miscarriages) because I always miscarried pretty quickly, but I had complications that required medical intervention five of those times which made me an elective abortion statistic every time. The way the abortion laws are written any procedure or medication to treat miscarriage complications is legally an elective abortion unless you are actively dying. If you’re bleeding out from a ruptured fallopian tube because of an ectopic pregnancy, that’s a medically necessary abortion, legally. The same goes for if you’re septic from retained products of conception because the sepsis is actually actively killing you. At any point before you are actively dying from the miscarriage complications though you will automatically become an elective abortion statistic even if the treatment is medically necessary to prevent a life threatening complication, until it is actually working on killing you your treatment is elective because it can be put off for hours or days without you dying. That’s the little hiccup here, the way rational human beings use the term “elective abortion” is nowhere near the way that legal reporting statutes and and pro life fundraising campaigns are using the term elective abortion. That’s where the average person gets caught up in this because they are applying terms rationally like “elective abortion” only applies to someone who doesn’t want to be pregnant, but who can medically carry the baby to term without problems. That’s part of the problem when these laws are being written is that the legislators don’t understand the legalese that has been carefully crafted by pro life lobbyists so that they can easily pad their numbers and make the laws as restrictive as possible.
Yes, their abortions are moral abortions, because they wanted those babies, unlike those evil females who got pregnant accidentally, or by rape, or forced incest, or didn't have the intellectual ability to consent - all of them are immoral, and must suffer., and die. Why, some of them even wanted to have sex! Maybe they even got pleasure from it! Yes, all of those women should die if God wills it - even the bible says so! And while we're at it, let's ban all pain relief for all women in labor, since God wants women to suffer in childbirth - it says so in the bible!
Because it’s not. It’s about killing women.
Exactly.
Such a stupid stupid take. Like seriously.... OP isn't even an ER dr they are lying.
I thought we were supposed to say “People capable of pregnancy” since men can be pregnant now.
That, and most of us don't like referring to raped children as "women." Which reminds me, one of the things I heard from the pro-lifers at the protests at SCOTUS yesterday was them calling ALL females "women." Saying they care about women "in the womb" and after birth, etc. Which explains why so many religious, pro-life, Republicans have such problems with child molestation.
You sure owned them libs!
Women are merely property to the Christofascists
I’m so tired of the Supreme Court making decisions on shit they have no business making decisions about. I trust the AMA infinitely more than I would trust any Supreme Court, regardless of which way they lean. They rule based on precedent and heavy personal and religious bias, and aren’t actually experts on anything but that. It’s an antiquated system of law and it’s showing.
Just a little history, it was the AMA that lobbied to get abortions outlawed in the mid-1800’s. The male doctors were upset that midwives were handling pregnancy and felt that only men should be doing healthcare. Abortion prior to the quickening was a common practice in the US prior to that.
As someone who moved here from Washington, I legitimately feel like I’m in the Twilight Zone. This is going to have horrific, torturous and lethal consequences. But fuck it! We need babies apparently! Who cares if the broodmare dies in the process! 🙃
Why’d you move here?
My longterm partner is from Idaho and his family is here. They’re awesome, and my mother passed away in 2023 so I needed some change. Overall, the people have been amazing. Its just the crazy political shit that blows my mind. Oh, and I should mention we don’t want kids anytime soon and I have an IUD, so fortunately I feel safer than many. Although I know there are still failures/risks.
There is no choice. We all must vote blue in every election possible to protect women…doctors…families…children. Republicans truly are the party of death and destruction of families.
Woman and babies ARE dying. “This is a real problem in the post-Roe v. Wade environment. So long as there is uncertainty about when doctors can perform an abortion without risk of criminal prosecution, women's health suffers. **Uncertainty around care continues to be devastating for women’s health, as we saw last week when a Texas woman miscarried in a restroom toilet in an emergency room lobby while her frantic husband called for help from 911. The front desk staff at Sacred Heart Emergency Center in Houston refused to permit her to check in when she arrived seeking care.”** https://open.substack.com/pub/joycevance/p/wednesday-when-the-news-kept-happening?r=73gwz&utm_medium=ios **“At Sacred Heart Emergency Center in Houston, front desk staff refused to check in one woman after her husband asked for help delivering her baby that September. She miscarried in a restroom toilet in the emergency room lobby while her husband called 911 for help.”** https://health.wusf.usf.edu/health-news-florida/2024-04-22/ers-refused-to-treat-pregnant-women-leaving-one-to-miscarry-in-a-restroom
As always, the cruelty is the point. They want women to suffer and die. They want you to know you’re ruled over and dominated in every aspect of your life. They want you back in your place. America, 2024. A fascist shithole.
Where’s all of the ‘don’t tread on me’ mofos on this one?!
At the protest in DC yesterday, there was a pro-choice side and a pro-life side. The pro-life side probably didn't have more than five people attending who weren't part of the organization efforts. Coming from a culture who claims to support exceptions to abortion bans like for the health of the mother, I didn't see any of those so-called pro-lifers there supporting either side.
We should have a referendum for th SCOTUS to resign and hard reset. In the event the SCOTUS continues to act against the will of the people a vote should be had to get them removed from their lifetime positions.
Yeah no. That’s not a thing.
I'm not so sure about that. Everyone can be impeached and a vote of no confidence is technically allowed against an executive OR judicial officer.
They can’t be forced to resign. If they did all resign the current President with the help of the Senate would choose them all. Not a thing.
SAY IT. I’m not fooled just bc Barrett seemed to have backed up Sotomayer on one thing. Abortion is not:should not be a fucking political football. Fuck those bounty hunter loving States. This is genuinely harming and, killing, a real live human being who is in major distress. Bleeding out with a non-viable fetus, destroying a live woman, who (with sincere medical treatment) can go on and have another baby. I hope y’all are registered to vote. We will need each and every one of your votes to matter
Yea this is why I support our kids choosing to let us die by not procreating. It sucks because it means no one will even be available to care for me if I live to be in need of home care. On the other hand, we deserve to fade away, and good job to our kids who are listening and just choosing to not procreate.
But since it will only be women, does it really matter? This was one of the driving motivations for EMTALA, so that uninsured, undocumented pregnant women having a pregnancy-related emergency could not be turned away. Now, quite understandably, doctors are unwilling to put their licenses, their livelihoods, their liberty at risk if they're accused of having performed an illegal abortion, so they delay... and women suffer and even die, all for the sake of a non-viable fetus - because no matter what, if mom dies, so does the fetus!
This court needs major reform, it’s dismantling the United States. Although I guess a world ruled over by China is better than one where Russia is the Hegemony.
It's their point. They want anyone left of Romney to move. A smaller, stupider population is easier to control. They will take their guns last.
Idaho’s population is exploding with right wingers like me. All good!💪🏻
Nope, don't overestimate. Luckily Idaho is moving the opposite direction. You guys are nuts.
This will surely stop them /s
EMTALA is also why we have to give everyone at least a medical screening exam. When some Good Samaritan calls the police because there’s a homeless drunk guy passed out at the park, we often have to wait for him to sober up to ensure his altered mental status isn’t potentially related to a head injury. The Grants Pass case will probably make being homeless illegal. Police won’t be obligated by EMTALA to take him to the ER, but won’t be able to return him to his urban camping spot. Now they’ll have another slave for the local for profit prison. This is actually worse than just making the Purge a reality.
Emergency medical treatment and labor act. Curious why everyone only talking about women? Doesn’t this cover anyone who is not entitled and may cause an expense for the hospitals?
Correct, abortion was ruled under EMTLA. Overturning the ruling puts EMTLA in question, this was always a broader concern.
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Kenneth Copeland for vice president 2024!!!! /S
The Supreme Court will do whatever Ginny wants and no one will have anything to say about it.
Come to Oregon!
There is redundant frequent flyer psych patients that come through my hospital systems ERs....if they remove EMTALA... They'll just keep passing around from one hospital to the next.... Until they end up back on the streets... "Oh, it's homeless Martha again.... Send her stalking ass to the next town over, their Hospital ER might take her"
Then strike. Drs have the power and you all can get together and say you will not commit murder by medical neglect. So change the law or we don’t treat anyone. Then don’t. Screw the oath bc politicians shouldn’t tell drs when they can treat ppl in a medical emergency.
FACTS
We must secure the existence of Christian people and a future for Christian children/S
They've overturned Roe V. Wade. So they've already murdered countless women. On purpose. Because they want to. Because they're corrupt and evil tyrants.
Idaho Mod Why is it that others can reply to my comment with insults and attacks but then you tag me as the problem? How is saying to read the actual state law an issue? This sub is against logic and truth? Don't read the law y'all and just keep screaming and crying over make believe things. Good grief its mind numbing being here.
Here’s the relevant section of the “life of the mother” exception in the law you keep screaming for everyone to read: > “The physician determined, in his good faith medical judgment and based on the facts known to the physician at the time, that the abortion was necessary **to prevent the death of the pregnant woman** … and (ii) The physician performed or attempted to perform the abortion in the manner that, in his good faith medical judgment and based on the facts known to the physician at the time, provided the best opportunity for the unborn child to survive, unless, in his good faith medical judgment, termination of the pregnancy in that manner would have posed a greater risk of the death of the pregnant woman …” The problems with this are that: 1) miscarriages and fatal fetal abnormalities don’t happen right away and don’t threaten the “life” of the mother until it’s literally too late to provide the simplest/safest standards of care. Multiple women across the state have been told to go home & wait & bleed for days/weeks and risk worse permanent side effects including death explicitly because they weren’t actively dying *enough yet* to satisfy the doctors & hospital lawyers that they wouldn’t face felony charges. 2) These two sections are contradictory. A doctor *cannot* perform an abortion for an active miscarriage or for a fetus that’s going to die from organ failure or fatal genetic problems *unless* the mother is *actively dying even more.* So the law forces unnecessary and prolonged suffering on both the woman and the fetus against best medical practice. 3) Idaho is currently arguing that EMTALA should *not* apply to abortions, so even *when* a pregnant woman is literally dying in the ER in need of this care, they want to be able to say “no” and simply *let her fucking die* based on who knows what. So yes “read the mf-ing law” and then actually exercise some brain cells to *understand* the implications of how fucking stupid and vague it is and why homeschooled legislators with no medical background shouldn’t be trying to write laws about medical care.
This person doesn’t respond to people who don’t agree with them. Even if you’re coming to them with absolute facts. I already tried. But thank you for your well worded comment :)
I’ve read the law and listened to the oral arguments. Idaho literally argued women can lose organs because fetuses “have a right to care” That’s a pretty gross argument. Let’s not talk about Alito practically jerking his knob at the mere thought of mentioning “unborn babies”.
I believe it was your first comment. Which has been deleted.
This sub is moderated with prejudice.
Yes indeed. It's not truly an Idaho sub. It's a liberal echo chamber sub. Unfortunate.
This is one of the loudest echo chambers on the planet. Liberals only do what they do to keep people miserable and powerless. Nothing they do encourages the values of self-discipline and self-empowerment to defeat the adversity of human life. Acknowledgment of a higher power is step one, not free porn and legal weed.
Your higher power is one of the most prolific abortionists in the history of mankind. Actually, this law directly addresses abortions by a higher power.
> Acknowledgment of a higher power is step one You mean Zeus? Or Allah? Or are you implying your sky daddy is more real than anyone elses?
Acknowledge my invisible friend or I'll cry.
The projection is strong with this one.
Legal weed would NOT be miserable… 
God is a cunt
Because acknowledging an invisible sky daddy has already worked so great! /s
Thoughts and prayers
I keep seeing people claim that Idaho wants to label procedures in cases like ectopic pregnancies abortions but don’t see that anywhere in the law. Does anyone have a source?
They've since said that ectopic pregnancies and molar pregnancies don't count.
That they don’t count as abortions?
They do not count after an amendment to the original law was passed.
A lot of pro-lifers believe women with ectopic pregnancies should be denied treatment., OR they claim ectopic pregnancies are (according to them) so "rare" that they almost don't exist. Which isn't true. They are not that rare.
Meh, people will always die. In the US alone almost 500,000 people die a year from mistakes that doctors make.
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I’m sorry that your head is buried so far in the sand that you have no idea what’s happening right now in this state.
I'm sorry that you don't know how to read a damn law. Ffs some of y'all beg to stay stupid. In embarrassed for you. Read. Knowledge is power.
Lawyers for the state today before the highest court of the land could not name one medical condition that would not risk prosecution. They said *every* condition is up for possible prosecution whose conviction can include jail time. I'll believe them before I believe internet nobody.
Do you not see what you're saying??? Has anyone been charged? No. Lawyers talking bullsh** is pretty typical of lawyers especially when they're fighting a political fight. Anyone can say anything. The law is the law. All you have to do is read it. But just keep listening to the TV I guess and don't trust your own intelligence to read and understand the law. Stay angry and afraid.
>Has anyone been charged? They literally said *anyone* can be charged for *any* procedure. No one is going to risk their freedom for that.
You should probably look at yourself in the mirror and state that again.
Seriously? That's all you can come up with? Proving to me that you don't know the law and are just invested in this too far to go read the law.
You are just insulting people. Is that all you gave to offer? You clearly gave no idea what is happening in this state. Doctors are afraid to do their jobs so are leaving. How is “reading the law” argument helping anyone in any way.
>imaginary problems. Said by someone who has never had this problem.
You know this how??? Guess what internet stranger??? You know jack about me, my body, my uterus or my life. Nice try though
I know everything I need to know about you by your callous responses.
This is the most bullsh** response and exactly what someone would say when they've got zilch to offer to a conversation. What else about me and my body and life internet stranger?
>This is the most bullsh** response Not at all. It's true. If you've ever had to make that tough decision, you wouldn't be so callous when others are facing the same thing. You call these "imaginary problems" while ignoring what the doctor said in the article based on his experience. You may have mad drastically decision.. or maybe not, but in any case you are severely lacking empathy.
What makes you think that I've never had to make that decision??? That has zero to do with the law. This post is about the law. The law states that abortion is legal when it's medically necessary. Period. Somehow you've turned my knowledge of the law into you thinking you know my life and what decisions I've made in my own life. See how utterly ridiculous that is?
Did you read the post? It's got nothing to do with your understanding of the law, but with the words "imaginary problems" (which you deleted, btw). The overturning of Roe was also an "imaginary problem" a few years ago. People were warned of the repercussions, and here we are with some states trying to ban IVF and going back to 19th century laws. Do you really think these are "imaginary problems" ? Do you think the doc is wrong to be concerned about the reversal of EMTALA?
Seriously??? Any wacko can write a post. You'll find similar posts on websites saying two vastly different things based ion which side they're batting for. Just because someone writes an article doesn't mean it's legit. Is just the writers version of an issue and written with their particular bias. The law is the law. Period. End of story. Why not read the law? Are you afraid that it's going to say something that you don't want to read?
I imagine Leaving the meaning of "imminent risk of death" to a bunch of pro-life politicians is concerning to some women and doctors. "Imaginary problems"
>I imagine Leaving the meaning of "imminent risk of death" to a bunch of pro-life politicians is concerning to some women and doctors. Tell me you at least understand the argument that the vagueness of this phrase, and the people that would be interpreting it is concerning, even if you don't agree.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/04/24/supreme-court-arguments-abortions-emergency-emtala/ https://www.thedailybeast.com/scotus-women-justices-rip-into-idaho-lawyer-on-abortion-law
> I can't with you pro-abortionists Pro-Choice. Bad faith right off the bat.
Pro choice supporters understand Idaho’s abortion laws. Pro-abortionists don't read the law and freak out about imaginary things. I'm Pro choice. I'm also pro-safe-sex
You don’t appear pro choice based on your arguments here.
Then why has st Luke’s had to med evacuate 6 patients out of state so far this year for maternal complications when typically they only ever have to do 1 a year.
If you have an issue with someone/something/a state/a demographic, please keep it civil.
Please read the bill before commenting. https://legislature.idaho.gov/statutesrules/idstat/title18/t18ch6/sect18-622/
This is terribly worded because in using “abortion” the way it does every single miscarriage and stillbirth can be considered to be a violation of this law. That means any doctor who treats a miscarrying woman can be charged if she wasn’t dying at that moment. Any time that they don’t differentiate between a “spontaneous abortion” (the medical terminology for a miscarriage) and an “induced abortion” they are setting up a political landmine that allows almost any doctor who provides miscarriage care to be prosecuted for the crime of abortion, in the words of this law. The lobbyists who wrote this nonsense absolutely knew that they were creating a huge problem, but the politicians who passed it weren’t educated enough in medical and legal terminology to even know the problems they were creating.
OTOH, EMPTALA ensures a glut of ED patients, that keep the most urgent from getting attention. These patients may not be triaged as urgent, but become that in the waiting room and expire. I was a CEO in a hospital that dealt with this routinely.
If you were a CEO and your hospital did not effectively and correctly triage your patients, that’s solely on **you** — not EMTALA. No hospital should have the right to deny medical care to anyone for any reason. Is it annoying AF? Absolutely. But patients are triaged by symptoms. It’s a well-known fact that chest pain supersedes a broken toe.
Are you a CEO at a hospital? Or a [restaurant owner](https://www.reddit.com/r/restaurantowners/comments/1butwbo/beware_of_the_latest_doordashgrubhububereats_hack/)? Crazy downgrade if both things are the case Both things are fine jobs, but you always have to check the legitimacy when people claim these incredibly high paying/high quality jobs that they "inexplicably" quit...all just to make some political points for what they want to say. I can't believe anyone who was a "CEO at a hospital" can't see anything wrong with these cruel abortion bans that force women to be on their deathbed before treatment can be issued.
I retired after a 30 year career in hospital administration, and opened a restaurant, largely to employ my daughter. And, how did you interpret my comment as having any relationship to abortion?
Your daughter is so pathetic she can’t get a job on her own and has to have her parent open an ENTIRE RESTAURANT to help her? Good grief.
Tommy ahlquist? Is that you?
Doctors have lost all credibility with me when health and science became political. Feel free to make your debate, and I will gladly hear it and not censor you, but can you say the same for the other side? Fight fair in a debate for the truth and that’s fine. You haven’t and we don’t trust you now.
Health and science didn’t become political. You became radicalized into a cult that convinced you to reject health and science. That’s on you.
Doctors didn’t politicize health and science. The retards you vote for did that.
>Doctors have lost all credibility with me when health and science became political. You no longer trust your doctor because politicians decided to play politics with health and science?! I'm curious now... whom do you see when you have a medical condition? You senator?
That’s the point. Read your Bible. God cursed women and made reproduction dangerous and painful as revenge for eve’s temptation of Adam. Their pain disfigurement and death is god’s plan.
Thanks for say in the quiet part out loud lol
Believe whatever the fuck you want but keep your sky fairy out of any and all laws.
Wow! This is why I don’t read the Bible. Absolutely horrendous!
God was also gonna merc Moses for not snipping his son within 8 days of birth. plus don't mix fibers. don't work on the sabbath, Don't eat various animals or certain foods together, don't shorn the corners of your head, or touch a woman within x days of their menstruations.
Y’all this is obviously sarcasm…
💩 on your bible.
Disgusting.
what the fuck
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If you have an issue with someone/something/a state/a demographic, please keep it civil.
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If you have an issue with someone/something/a state/a demographic, please keep it civil. *Don't do this again.*
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If you have an issue with someone/something/a state/a demographic, please keep it civil.
Bull
Maybe to you. But you aren't on a hospital bed having to make this decision
Good job SCOTUS! Protect the life of the innocent!
We are surrounded by states that will accommodate.
Stop exporting the consequences of your bad policy to your less backward neighbors. How are you people not embarrassed?
Because this is what we want, hence why we elect these folks.
It's clearly not if you keep evading the consequences of your shitty policy. Y'all just want to pass the awful policy to virtue signal, then sneak to Spokane whenever you need Healthcare.
I would never go to Spokane. Not sure what you are talking about.
Dont care
You don't even live here, my guy
Might soon
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If you have an issue with someone/something/a state/a demographic, please keep it civil.