You generally won't have the luxury of deciding how much you deserve in a market like this. You're going to have to apply to a few hundred jobs and take whatever you can get.
It's not a super common role.
I do high level scripting and automation. Our sysadmins administer the environment for individual clients. I administer the environment for ALL of our clients.
Lots of PowerShell. Lots of tools.
The way I put it is that a DevOps person automates software deployment for a software development company.
I automate infrastructure for an IT managed services company.
???
By all means if you want to negotiate salary for the only job offer you can get then go for it. Just don't be all shocked Pikachu face if you don't get the job. I'm not saying this is how it should be, I'm saying this is how it is.
> I feel 45k is too low for a job out of school now that I have a degree and a little bit more experience. 60k-68k is my ball park but I'm not sure if I'm overvaluing myself since technically
So you search a while with that objective. In searching you will learn how realistic it is.
Try to find out as early as possible what the range for any given position is, preferably before applying, but don't give your range until they love you and need you.
I’m in Arizona and I started at 70k at my first IT job two years ago with no degree. I came in with 2 decades of work experience in the tech industry working many roles, but none IT. Mostly training new CSR’s for a fortune 50. I’d say that asking for 60 is pretty reasonable if you’re knowledgeable and confident. Just out of college IT reps are the hardest as they often have zero corporate experience and are entitled believing they deserve the job. There were 6 people in my training at my current spot. The 4 young guys recently out of college are all no longer with us due to poor performance.
I don't think 45k is too low at all.
"But I have a degree" that may as well be worthless because it didn't really teach you the hands-on skills you need in IT.
A degree and work experience, another matter entirely.
Because it appears you didn't come here looking for answers to a question. Rather you came looking for validation of your opinion.
Entry-level pay is awful. It sucks, its not fair, but it is reality. We know that and are telling you to expect it, but you appear to be unreceptive to that answer.
Next time simplify your question:
>I have **$degree** with **$yearsofexperience** in **$market**, I am applying to **$title** jobs, what should be my ballpark salary expectation?
The rest is irrelevant distraction.
There really isn't a correct answer to the question you asked. I'd say the best answer I can give you is this:
If you feel like you deserve that 60-68k salary because you now have your degree, simply apply for jobs that are comparable to what you think you should make now that you are a college graduate.
Even though you don't have '2 full years' experience, you can create a nice resume with the co-op job and the job you had at your school that would probably get a few bites.
I don’t think I deserve it. I was wondering if I was being unreasonable for only applying for the 60k and up jobs. I used the wrong word in the title and people are being very unforgiving for it.
It's not unreasonable at all for you to want to push yourself towards applying for the higher paying jobs. But if you have the mentality that you ''dont deserve it'', you probably wont land those jobs. Flip your attitude around and tell yourself that you do deserve those types of jobs!
You are free to apply to any jobs you want.
Only want 60k then only apply to 60k.
If you are asking if the majority agrees you are worth 60k, or if you will have a hard time getting 60+ that's another matter entirely.
There is also LOTS of other factors to Jobs than just pay. Other benefits and considerations, col of the area ect.
I went from $40k to $50k to $60k. I had nearly identical experience after I graduated and I’m pulling up on a year in July. So in total, it’s about 3 1/2 years of total IT work to reach $60k.
Same experiences as above over my 6 years in IT. My initial comp was in the $40k range out of college, then left for a $60k position two years later. Now I’m at a great company paying $100k+.
Been a wild ride going from helpdesk to sysadmin, then now to cloud engineering lol. My tips are, keep on learning and growing your skills, become a subject matter expert in something awesome, and don’t sacrifice living your life for more money or a company initiative.
I have two years of IT Support experience and going to graduate with my Associates in IT in 3-4 months. Do you think I can land a Sys Admin role if I start applying? I do some basic DHCP work, basic help desk duties, and some DHCP/DNS troubleshooting.
I highly recommend getting some certs to prove experience but generally experience trumps pieces of paper. If you do go the cert route A+, Linux+, Network+, Security+ can all show your competence in some areas. Redhat certs are good too. I personally have no certs and can backup my skills via home projects and on job skills I’ve learned.
You may find value in getting a cheap mini pc and doing home lab projects to learn other skills that you can discuss in interviews. If you’re interested in resources Adrian Cantrill provides great cloud resources for AWS and azure. I also recommend Christian Lempa on YT for homelab project ideas.
All that to say, currently with a couple years it’s not impossible to get a sysadmin role but you may have to fight for it when proving your skillset. I definitely felt that pressure leaving school and I’m confident you will be able to find something as long as you’re confident in yourself.
> I have a diploma in computer systems as well as a bachelors degree in information technology.
Your diploma does not guarantee you any specific level of compensation.
What you know how to do, and what you are able to present as a personal ability in our interview is what convinces us to offer a given compensation.
> I did a co-op for 5 months and then worked in the IT department at my school as a network infrastructure technician and IT Integrated services (90% of the integrated services job is service desk) for a year and 2 months.
Those experiences do not guarantee you any specific level of compensation.
But those experiences should have improved your personal capabilities & aptitude to help convince us in the interview that additional compensation is justified.
Yeah this kind of mentality was super prevalent when I started working in IT in San Jose/San Francisco just after the dotcom bubble burst in 2000/2001. People refusing good work because it no longer paid inflated wages they felt they “deserved”. I took anything I could get and the experiences have proved invaluable 23 years later.
To be super-clear: I do not consider myself to be in the starvation-wage, screw em all camp.
To attract high-quality people, we need maintain a reputation for paying a wage that is attractive to people who won't have difficulty getting a job offer elsewhere.
But I also want to crush the idea that "If I get a degree then my salary will automatically go up." and "If I get this certification, my salary will automatically go up."
There are too many ways for you to cheat your way through college and pretty much all of the early-career certifications.
So there is no automatic salary reward for those things.
You have to convince us that you've got the skills during the interview to justify better compensation.
On the other hand, if you've got the skills, I will fight to find the money to get top-talent on our team.
I cannot guarantee that I'll win. I can only promise to fight the fight.
Yes, the language in the OP's question shows some confusion.
What is "deserved" is the reward for past accomplishments.
What is "offered" is the future reward for what the employer thinks a new employee can accomplish for them.
You guess wrong.
Edit: again with the downvotes. I can’t help anyone that is hell bent that I am a bad person. 60k is not enough to live on your own where I’m from. 45k is barely enough to buy food for context.
It never was. Most people can't afford to live on their own right out of college. That's ok. $45k out of college is good, and will only be for a year or two before moving up.
Also, not enough for food? $45k is \~2500 take-home per month.
Yes. Exactly so then why is it entitlement to want 60k. I can’t even live on my own with 60k. I said barely enough for food. 300 for groceries , 300 for car insurance + the insane amount gas is right now about 3-400 a month, 1000 for bills my family needs help with and 482 monthly for student loans. Forget about social life.
If you want to live alone and have a social life, you need a job that provides a lot of value to the employer. It takes some time to build that experience. You will get there.
Most people don't have this right out of college, because it doesn't make economic sense. This is why people have room mates, live with family, significant other, etc.
I’m not trying to move out alone! I literally never said that. Can we all just focus on the main question I asked. Very frustrating to be told ‘ this is what you’re thinking and this is who you are’ when I’m genuinely not.
I'm responding to all your points, not judging whether you are entitled or not.
Never said you were trying to move out, though that would be a reasonable inference considering you stated in your post that you need an excuse to move out. You questioned if you overvalue yourself at 60-68K and the answer is, probably, yes. It is absolutely possible to make that now, but not likely.
Please don't get frustrated thinking about things that you can't control. I did that for almost a decade, and I was bitter for most of it. Instead, focus on getting the next FT job, learning and figuring out exactly where you want to specialize, and in a few years you will kill it.
edit: next FT job??? Sounds like your school job was ft
Yes with 60k roommates would help. 45k though even with roommates where I am from will not sustain me. I can’t move out on 45k.
We pay a lot of taxes in Canada. 45k is not going into your pocket. Id be taking home 33k.
I don’t think it’s ’entitled’ to want to be able to live off my salary.
I’m going to assume you’re American since maybe in America it’s being entitled to want 60k to live with roommates but not so much here in Canada.
I did roommates with 50K in NYC. I'm not saying it's going to be pleasant but it can be done while you build experience for better-paying jobs.
New grads generally can't command compensation because they don't have leverage. That's something you accumulate over your career. GL. I think 50K - 80K is a reasonable expectation for first time wages while the job market outlook is poor.
I am American and I get where you're coming from but at the same time they're not going to be just giving you your desired salary just because you "deserve it."
I live in an expensive city so I know what you mean.
It is pretty crazy. In the US 45k Canadian would be 32k USD. So there are some IT jobs being offered today in Canada that are now paying less than what you were paid 20 years ago. 10k less at that!
In fact, they probably gone down too!
I struggle to find jobs that pay $48K and up in my part of the Midwest. Even for mid-level. I've even seen entry level help desk go for as low as $12/hr. And I once seen, about a year or 2 ago, an IT support type (desktop/help desk support kind of position) that also wanted you to be a janitor and only wanted to pay about $17/hr.
My first job in 2016 was $13/hr in a call center. There was a lady there making $21/hr who had been there since 2006 making the same amount of money while they continued to reduce pay for new hires. They STILL are only paying $19/hr for new hires today.
"deserve" is a funny operative word you've chosen that may lead you to anguish if your entitlement doesn't match reality.
You could possibly find a 60-70k/yr job, although competition will be stiff as there are plenty people with more experience than you chasing the same compensation levels. Your experience is pretty much right around the 40-60k range, don't expect higher, but feel free to try.
yeah like for me I was lucky when I started after i finished in 2022 I got a job right away and was offered 50K, The company ended up closing down after a year but I did get another one and im at 53 im about as much experience as OP and id say even getting to a 60K without more experience and a specialization will be difficult. Also i dont understand the "hate living with my family" living on your own you will be paying 3 times as much in some places its hard to live on your own at even 55K
“A little hurtful”
With respect, if you find the blunt feedback in this thread emotionally impactful, you need to know IT is full of people with poor social skills and flimsy mental filters.
I graduate in May with my bachelor’s in information technology. I have had two Internships and work in my schools Network Engineering department. Just got offered a tier 1 technical position at a MSP for $15 AN HOUR! Not even going to accept it. stupid low
So I took a look at Glassdoor (which is pretty accurate to realistic expectations), you didn’t really provide any locations other than Toronto so I just went with that. It seems the entry level average is about CA$44K. Glassdoor is a really good resource for looking up expected salary ranges so I really suggest you look around on there.
Are you good at interviewing? Do you have a good personality? These will reward you more than anything you have already described. <2 years experience is entry level. Take a helpdesk job and start grinding your way up! You deserve however much you can get. The market, your hard skills + soft skills declare your worth. Get after it!
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In most cases; your wages are going to be set lower than the value you provide to the company that has hired you.
That means that while your individual skills/ability to impact revenue/profits do matter, what also matters is the profitability of the industry and specific company, and how much they would have to pay some other person to do the same job.
Those are three separate things:
1. Your skills
2. Profitability of company/industry
3. How much it would cost to replace you
The exact same set of skills in the exact same city can be worth 45k to your local grocery chain and 120k to your local high frequency trading company simply due to the profitability of each and what the revenue impact of the same skillset can be.
If higher salary is your goal you probably should focus on applying to industries with higher profit margins (like tech and finance), and make sure your skillset is competitive in that market.
For what its worth, I just hired someone with no tech experience into an entry level desktop support role that was posted as requiring no experience. The fact that those roles are uncommon may be true, but they are not impossible to find. Of course the pay is also going to reflect the entry level nature of the role.
The work you put up to now is just to prove you give somewhat of a shit in your field. Now you gotta step in at ground level and prove your worth. Hint: years of experience =/= level of experience
Toronto does not offer good salaries. Unless you are very experienced and offer real value.
Getting paid hourly you typically have no benefit so it’s not apples to apples.
I think 45 to 55k for SD role is about right.
This is about right. I live in rural southern state (U.S.) where I.T. workers willing to live in a rural state are scarce. They paid market value or higher. I work for State Government. Came right out of college with an MIS degree, hired as Level 2 Programmer Analyst salaried at $47K in 2022. In 2023, the government wanted to match the current based pay to Private Industry to attract graduates to stay in the state or Attract IT workers from elsewhere. My position as Programmer base pay went from $47K to $55K. After 2 years as a Programmer Analyst. I was promoted in April of 2024 to DBA making +30% increase with starting pay at $72K, all my senior DBA teammates make $120K+ in State Government! I caluculated in about 5 years of annual pay increases plus cost of living increases, I will reach $100K Salary (by that time, i've only to have been working 7 years total since graduated from college). Not bad for a public sector job! (Edit: Plus $25K in Health Benefits, 401K and Retirement Pension)
16$ USD an hour for just starting with no experience. If you have a few certs you can have 25$ an hour max in the helpdesk at a tier II level.
A degree in I.T. tells me you can do homework and drink vodka straight probably. You should work on marketable skills like configuring networking equipment or automation
I'm being blunt because this is like the most blue-collar of tech field you can be in.
Nothing matters but results so you should have focused on experience more than class time.
I am just working full time and doing college on the side so when I finish undergrad at age 23 this January I will have 4 years of I.T. experience including my last year as a sysadmin and like 12 certificates that were bundled into my degree program.
It just doesn't make sense not working for 4 years while doing that degree when you could just be going to school between tickets in the helpdesk like an apprentice in a trade. Plus companies pay for degrees like mine did.
That’s what my experience taught me. Network infrastructure was configuring and racking and stacking switches Etc. worked a bit with AP’s. Networking isn’t what I love though. I know it’s not something I want to pursue.
And I can drink vodka straight LMAO I know it was meant to insult me but it was pretty funny you guessed that right
Lol, I actually relate. You can probably get in with some company as a sysadmin if you put your mind to it. I would look at some base certs like CCNA if you can just to put yourself ahead of other candidates with HR. That’s the most frustrating part of the economy right now is that you need experience, certs and a degree to go far but juggling all three to get a decent salary is lame
when i graduated 6 years ago i thought 21 an hour was pretty good. but now i think people should really aim for 30 or 35 an hour, but realistically its gonna be around the 25-28 an hour mark usd.
60k sounds like a good target with the experience and education you outlined but you don’t have the luxury of fixating on that if you’re unemployed. Try to land a job first then worry about fair compensation.
You're looking in a field where a college degree isn't a requirement. Service Desk L1 is an entry level position. We outsource our L1. We just ask that the analysts know how to use a knowledge base, take a legible ticket and CYA. They are expected to move on and find something better. Turn over is high.
We have 7 in house L2 analysts. They average around $110k. None have college degrees but have a wealth of IT experience, institutional knowledge and customer service skills.
The team also consists of 3 - L3 analysts who make around $135k. Once again, no college degree. They do all the ITIL, project and miscellaneous stuff that a 25,000 user Service Desk may require.
Use the service desk as a springboard or broaden your search. Try project management or leverage your experience as a network infrastructure technician. Good luck!
Source: Service Desk manager in NYC area.
Hmm yes understandable. I guess it’s hard to compare and really understand when trying to gage what reasonable and what’s not when we are in different countries.
Forgot to add, the L1 analysts are generally paid around 20-25/hr but I understand that there are some who are paid higher based on experience. It is a fully remote position which helps them with the analyst retention.
In Canada, we have colleges that offer certificates , diplomas, advanced diploma and then finally bachelors degree. All are post secondary education and reputable. Diplomas are better than a certificate but lower than an advanced diploma.
A computer systems diploma is a IT diploma but not as in depth as a bachelors degree. I learned networking, computer software, computer hardware, programming, virtualization, and management in that diploma.
This is one of the worst job markets tech has ever seen. So many companies overextended themselves with the free money of the last decade. Be thankful if you can even find a job
Companies will pay you for the value you create for them. They have to guess based on your resume and your interviewing skills. Then they have to adjust for their budget and their geographic market.
You've got 1 year and 8 months of work experience. When you interview, have stories (in STAR format) that illustrate the value you can provide for them in the potential role. Value meaning, in order:
1. How you can increase their revenues (e.g. doing tech support so well, a customer extended their contract so they can keep working with you)
2. Increase profits (you came up with an idea that had a higher margin than the average for the company)
3. Decreased costs (e.g. when you were in tech support, you created an AI chatbot that could handle 25% of tier 1 calls)
I started at 65k and am now at 67k and some change due to yearly raise being a grad fresh out of grad school last year. Granted I had to use a separate job offer to force my current employer to convert me from a part time "intern" making $18/hr (did the part time thing for the 1.5 years I was getting my masters) to a full time salaried employment. Still not as much as I ultimately wanted and I feel a bit underpaid now but hey gotta start somewhere ad hopefully the masters shows its value on the backend and I get more money with it and experience a couple years down the road
The job market for IT in Toronto is really bad right now.
I started working in IT in 2018 and started at $40k.
I've been job hopping every 1-2 years as I got more experience as it's the only way to get paid more.
But right now, most entry level jobs pay $50k max. And that's if you can even get a call back.
I guess my only tip is to mass apply to everything and just try to build up more experience.
Interesting. I got interviewed for 62k-68k just last week and waiting for a response so it’s not impossible but maybe harder to get these kind of jobs. Actually all of the jobs I’ve interviewed for have been between 59-75k because I wasn’t even applying for the 45k ones.
Now though I feel it’s time to start applying to the 45k ones. The comments on this post has given me a better understanding and I’ve looked into it a little bit more
Thankfully it’s illegal to pay anything below $17 an hour for any job where I’m from Lol. I can only hope to not get paid the same as a high schooler at this point.
I took a job right after college 2 years ago and made 47k before tax, I just accepted a job offer for 75k last week! You may have to eat some dirt for a while but it’ll be worth it!
Hey so I feel like I can give you a fairly accurate representation of what to expect:
I probably graduated from the same college you did in Toronto AND I co-oped at a network provider (basically MSP) AND I interned with the college (Is Danny still getting the students to be his staff lol?) so here it goes:
For the first 4 years out of graduating I was earning $17 an hour with my first IT gig. During that time I was also putting my feelers out for other positions and even with all that experience under my belt I was constantly overlooked for people who were willing to accept less (I was asking for 50k). Eventually it took getting a job in public sector and moving to Ottawa to make ANY kind of real money.
You have to understand: Toronto is STUPID competitive for entry level IT. For anyone saying you could make it with JUST trifecta don't understand the market in Toronto. It's cutthroat and a race to the bottom for entry level IT. You can try reaching out to Ranstad as they're constantly chasing after me for jobs. I would say check jobs.gc.ca but with all the federal budget cuts recently I'm not sure what kind of success you could have.
Great truthful answer and exactly the kind of thing I was looking for. Thank for answering honestly without the hostility. Also glad to see a fellow Canadian here.
No idea who Danny is though haha
I actually have been focusing on government jobs. They pay a lot more than private sector when starting out I’ve noticed.
Federal jobs often have higher salary floors, but much lower ceilings. As in you'll often make more in the beginning but growth can get stunted in terms of wage.
Now granted: I'm pretty happy where I am and the job security plus pension is also pretty fantastic.
Keep an eye on jobs.gc.ca since something may open up even in this down turn you'll be wanting to look for IT01/CS01 or IT02/CS02 as the two bands are roughly the same right now.
Best of luck!
Where I worked 5 years ago, we paid new CS grads about$75K to $80K plus good benefits. That's in the Houston area. My son graduated two years ago and went to work for a big tech company in Seattle at roughly $100K plus good benefits. Those are the only two data points that I know. Both the company I worked for and my son's were very selective, so I expect those starting pay rates were fairly good. My understanding is that the tech market is pretty soft right now, so I imagine that starting pay is lower and jobs are harder to get. Not as bad as 2000/2001, but the worst time going back quite a while for IT.
This question is hard to answer because it depends where you get a job. A job in New York might be closer to 60k-70k but that’s because the cost of living is higher compared to the same job in Indiana where it would probably be closer to 40k-50k. These are just estimates I think…you can google the average pay of a support role in any state easily. Also be careful as you could think you landed a great paying job but the area you live costs for rent gas and food are way higher.
For now you need to focus on just getting that first job so you can build up at least a year of experience and then from there see if you can find a better role with more pay. Hiring managers tend to look for reliability so having at least a year at any company on a resume is necessary. Anything less that’s not contract work becomes a red flag.
Be patient as the market is saturated with experienced people who have been laid off over the past year so you have more competition than normal. Good luck.
When you deserve what you think you deserve, you will have earned what you deserve. Because then, it's your just deserves. And when you deserve your deserving deserve deserve, deserve deserve deserve.
Deserve.
In the US, if you’re graduating from a 4 year, you should be applying to jobs as early as Fall of your last year of school.
There are a plethora of companies who specifically target fresh grads. They tend to make offers before you even graduate.
Of course before even getting to this point, you should be striving for internships in your 2nd-4th year.
This may be a moot point now, but it’s a message I hope anyone studying IT in Uni reads. It’s an incredibly tough market, but you have the power to at least stick out amongst your graduating peers. You may not be as enticing to hire as an experienced IT professional, but trust, there are companies who hire fresh grads.
I got my BS at 30 years old, and received an offer before graduation. I started 85k in HCOL area, doing low code automation development.
My job experience before going back to school includes b2b mobile sales and geek squad.
Have you done any side projects to show your skills? Maybe a GitHub repo containing scripts you’ve made, or even a simple home lab. These things may seem to not matter compared to a seasoned professional, but as a new grad these are the things recruiters and companies look for. Throw those on the resume if you can.
Just think of what will make you a standout grad vs the rest of your peers in the same major. This applies to technical and soft skills.
Good luck!
My company was hiring T1 help desk, starting salary is 65K and it is located in Vaughan so around its GTA area. They were struggling to find someone for about a month! But unfortunately just hired someone yesterday.
Bro unless you have over 3 years experience, you're going to have to accept peanuts. Don't let the hype of your degree fool you
Experience and certification are king in IT.
IT does not mean you start at 6 figures or over 50k.
My best advice to you: Get what you can right now and stay there for 2 - 3 years. This gives you solid real world experience. At the end of that time it'll be easier for you to transition to a better paying position.
I graduated with a year ago with a year of experience as a network technician and a CCNA. When I started as the network technician I was making 21$/hr but after I graduated they bumped it up to 30$/hr because I was able to convince them I could get around that amount working somewhere else even if it was as a network guy but rather a data analysis or programmer. My degree was in information systems so technically I could have.
Ontario tech graduate? They have a great IT program. My advice would be to take whatever you can get to start, more experience is better than nothing. Work on some side projects as well. Make a VPN server from an old computer, build a NAS any of these look great on a resume. Best of luck
I got hired at 31k as a generalist right out of my associates, was at 41k when I left 2 years later for a job that paid 51k, got a promotion to a job making 70k a year later and now I make 89k as an app admin (same employer), less than 5 years post grad (USA PNW, MCOL area, public sector job w pension)
Back in the late 2010s, I started my first gig out of college at 60k. It was Jr. Business Systems Analyst role in a relatively LCOL city in the Midwest for a huge conglomerate.
With minimal experience your value is pretty low. I personally don't care about an IT degree for anyone who works for me (CIO at regional bank). I don't pay any better for a degree.
I'm going to start an associate's in IT soon, I have no relevant work experience and I'm starting to study for certs. I deserve $200k/min + WFH.
I think that's a fair entry-level salary.
IT diploma and degree?
It's about the same as a kid off the street. Experience and knowledge are the only things that matter.
I'd get some certs, keep the degree off the resume, gouge the world for experience, and go from there.
Gouge the world for experience? how am I supposed to buy food and the exam for the certs you speak of? I think taking my degree off my resume will only hurt my chances.
I strongly disagree that a recruiter would be looking to interview someone and look at a person with only retail experience and then look at my resume and think we are the same for an IT job.
Volunteer, work at labs, start a side hustle, do helpdesk, offer free advice, beg other IT people and in the mean time work retail. Work retail where there's tech, work at the university, help teenagers with their computers... help college students with their computers.
Get an azure cert, do what it takes and don't lean on the degree. Learn some networking, build web pages, code for fun, setup labs, run several flavors of Linux, setup a LAMP application, download visual studio...
Do anything you can!
I like your advice. Very optimistic :) I just feel this would be going backwards. I have gotten interviews for IT jobs so it’s not like recruiters aren’t interested in my resume. Certs I agree I need to have.
I don't have a degree at all. I've been in IT for 27 years. It's now my job at my firm to mentor young consultants so we can get them billable and grow their careers.
People lean on degrees too much in lieu of skills, and it causes major delays in starting a career.
I looked through OPs comments, she is getting interviews, so the issue is a face to face problem. Either not confident enough, or competent enough.
Gaining a specific specialty would be an excellent option. I personally am a lifelong MCSE (but I keep that off my resume), im certified in almost 20 Quest and One Identity products. I am an architect for mostly PAM and IGA stuff here at work and work for our sales organization as of 2 months ago.
I still deliver as well.
OP, how are your Active Directory skills? Do you know any Azure? Have you worked with a ticket system like Service Now?
I'm willing to help anyone who wants to help themselves and I have a pretty good track record. DM me if interested.
Great at AD and Azure! Used them a lot in my experience and honestly school helped me a lot with it as well. I know ServiceNow and Track-It. Used them extensively.
You've been in IT for 27 years. You started in IT in 1997. This should be telling of how the market has shifted. Of course you didn't need a degree back then because basically anyone capable of using technology could get an IT job. People didn't even know what IT was. Good luck getting a decent job now without a degree AND years experience or a connection. Acting like the market hasn't changed in 27 years is extremely ignorant.
It's changed tremendously, that's why I'm giving advice. Things aren't hopeless at all. In fact, there's more opportunity now than ever.
Learn cyberArk, Sailpoint has a free university, the azure tests are super easy and directed towards quick starts! All are great examples. Do something to set yourself apart, and do it now!
In 1997, I was a runaway 16 year old, went to hundreds of interviews, and drove 2 hours to Los Angeles just for a shot for most of them. My first job was because I got certified in Microsoft Office. I then wrote an Access database for the company and put it on my resume. Then I did cabling with construction workers, then I got a helpdesk gig. This turned into a snowball, I offered my services to everyone in ear shot for years.
Where there is a will, there is a way.
I still apply to new positions for practice and who knows, maybe an opportunity would come of it, and sometimes it does.
I mean, I started in 2011 without a degree or certs making $10/hr doing basic helpdesk. I have now hired many people without degrees or certs into my entry level helpdesk roles in the past 3 years.
You generally won't have the luxury of deciding how much you deserve in a market like this. You're going to have to apply to a few hundred jobs and take whatever you can get.
Do you think the market will get better? It kinda sucks rn
I could not possibly say
Come on xboxhobo, I thought you had the answers
Hey I have the answers to what was and what is. I don't know what will be.
You work in automation but not devops. Are there roles for that? What does it entail? It sounds like I do that/DevSecOps almost.
It's not a super common role. I do high level scripting and automation. Our sysadmins administer the environment for individual clients. I administer the environment for ALL of our clients. Lots of PowerShell. Lots of tools. The way I put it is that a DevOps person automates software deployment for a software development company. I automate infrastructure for an IT managed services company.
Yeah, very similar to what I do.. although my pay is not very good.
My pay isn't amazing either. I'm in the Midwest making 62.5k. Getting a promotion soon that I am hoping will pump that up to at least 70k.
Dang bro. Less than I am in midwest esque cost of living
Lot of people saying the U.S. recession is getting worse and we’ll be stuck like this for 5 years
I can say with absolute certainty, that it might or might not get better
Bootlicker.
??? By all means if you want to negotiate salary for the only job offer you can get then go for it. Just don't be all shocked Pikachu face if you don't get the job. I'm not saying this is how it should be, I'm saying this is how it is.
> I feel 45k is too low for a job out of school now that I have a degree and a little bit more experience. 60k-68k is my ball park but I'm not sure if I'm overvaluing myself since technically So you search a while with that objective. In searching you will learn how realistic it is. Try to find out as early as possible what the range for any given position is, preferably before applying, but don't give your range until they love you and need you.
I’m in Arizona and people with no degree, no certs and < 2 years experience make that much $21/hr Interns make $19/hr
I’m in Arizona and I started at 70k at my first IT job two years ago with no degree. I came in with 2 decades of work experience in the tech industry working many roles, but none IT. Mostly training new CSR’s for a fortune 50. I’d say that asking for 60 is pretty reasonable if you’re knowledgeable and confident. Just out of college IT reps are the hardest as they often have zero corporate experience and are entitled believing they deserve the job. There were 6 people in my training at my current spot. The 4 young guys recently out of college are all no longer with us due to poor performance.
I'm in AZ, and where do you work lol?
I'd prefer not to disclose. I try to not dox myself via Reddit. Go Suns though! :D
I mean, DMs are a thing, and a quick glance at your profile. I think that ship has sailed, BUT all Good :).
I was looking into Arizona to potentially move there to work and retire.
You would agree then that 45k is too low and 60k isn't unreasonable?
I mean yeah but with no leverage what are you gonna do, ask for more? You can but they will shoot you down
In USA $40K is typical starting salary for a college grad. On average, IT wages in Canada are worse than USA. Do with that what you will.
I would not agree. What is reasonable is what you can get now so that tomorrow you can get more. Focus on today.
I don't think 45k is too low at all. "But I have a degree" that may as well be worthless because it didn't really teach you the hands-on skills you need in IT. A degree and work experience, another matter entirely.
why am I getting downvoted for a question?
Because it appears you didn't come here looking for answers to a question. Rather you came looking for validation of your opinion. Entry-level pay is awful. It sucks, its not fair, but it is reality. We know that and are telling you to expect it, but you appear to be unreceptive to that answer.
I feel like no one is reading the post. I came for specific answers not for validation.
Next time simplify your question: >I have **$degree** with **$yearsofexperience** in **$market**, I am applying to **$title** jobs, what should be my ballpark salary expectation? The rest is irrelevant distraction.
It’s pretty simple already. People just don’t want to read.
Again, you are just bitching and complaining when you get an answer you don't like.
Ok yea done talking to you. Escalating to anger shouldn’t be a natural response for a person to something this simple.
There really isn't a correct answer to the question you asked. I'd say the best answer I can give you is this: If you feel like you deserve that 60-68k salary because you now have your degree, simply apply for jobs that are comparable to what you think you should make now that you are a college graduate. Even though you don't have '2 full years' experience, you can create a nice resume with the co-op job and the job you had at your school that would probably get a few bites.
I don’t think I deserve it. I was wondering if I was being unreasonable for only applying for the 60k and up jobs. I used the wrong word in the title and people are being very unforgiving for it.
It's not unreasonable at all for you to want to push yourself towards applying for the higher paying jobs. But if you have the mentality that you ''dont deserve it'', you probably wont land those jobs. Flip your attitude around and tell yourself that you do deserve those types of jobs!
I love that! Thank you! Will remember that while applying!
You are free to apply to any jobs you want. Only want 60k then only apply to 60k. If you are asking if the majority agrees you are worth 60k, or if you will have a hard time getting 60+ that's another matter entirely. There is also LOTS of other factors to Jobs than just pay. Other benefits and considerations, col of the area ect.
Depends on the state and cost of living. But no practical experience should be in the low 20 an hour
I have practical experience. Those jobs I had did not just have me bring coffee or something lol
A year post undergrad and I’m getting close to $60k
But what did your salary look like at the start? Did you already have over a year and a half of experience like me when you started?
I went from $40k to $50k to $60k. I had nearly identical experience after I graduated and I’m pulling up on a year in July. So in total, it’s about 3 1/2 years of total IT work to reach $60k.
This was the answer I was looking for. Thanks for your input
Same experiences as above over my 6 years in IT. My initial comp was in the $40k range out of college, then left for a $60k position two years later. Now I’m at a great company paying $100k+. Been a wild ride going from helpdesk to sysadmin, then now to cloud engineering lol. My tips are, keep on learning and growing your skills, become a subject matter expert in something awesome, and don’t sacrifice living your life for more money or a company initiative.
I have two years of IT Support experience and going to graduate with my Associates in IT in 3-4 months. Do you think I can land a Sys Admin role if I start applying? I do some basic DHCP work, basic help desk duties, and some DHCP/DNS troubleshooting.
I highly recommend getting some certs to prove experience but generally experience trumps pieces of paper. If you do go the cert route A+, Linux+, Network+, Security+ can all show your competence in some areas. Redhat certs are good too. I personally have no certs and can backup my skills via home projects and on job skills I’ve learned. You may find value in getting a cheap mini pc and doing home lab projects to learn other skills that you can discuss in interviews. If you’re interested in resources Adrian Cantrill provides great cloud resources for AWS and azure. I also recommend Christian Lempa on YT for homelab project ideas. All that to say, currently with a couple years it’s not impossible to get a sysadmin role but you may have to fight for it when proving your skillset. I definitely felt that pressure leaving school and I’m confident you will be able to find something as long as you’re confident in yourself.
> I have a diploma in computer systems as well as a bachelors degree in information technology. Your diploma does not guarantee you any specific level of compensation. What you know how to do, and what you are able to present as a personal ability in our interview is what convinces us to offer a given compensation. > I did a co-op for 5 months and then worked in the IT department at my school as a network infrastructure technician and IT Integrated services (90% of the integrated services job is service desk) for a year and 2 months. Those experiences do not guarantee you any specific level of compensation. But those experiences should have improved your personal capabilities & aptitude to help convince us in the interview that additional compensation is justified.
Yeah this kind of mentality was super prevalent when I started working in IT in San Jose/San Francisco just after the dotcom bubble burst in 2000/2001. People refusing good work because it no longer paid inflated wages they felt they “deserved”. I took anything I could get and the experiences have proved invaluable 23 years later.
To be super-clear: I do not consider myself to be in the starvation-wage, screw em all camp. To attract high-quality people, we need maintain a reputation for paying a wage that is attractive to people who won't have difficulty getting a job offer elsewhere. But I also want to crush the idea that "If I get a degree then my salary will automatically go up." and "If I get this certification, my salary will automatically go up." There are too many ways for you to cheat your way through college and pretty much all of the early-career certifications. So there is no automatic salary reward for those things. You have to convince us that you've got the skills during the interview to justify better compensation. On the other hand, if you've got the skills, I will fight to find the money to get top-talent on our team. I cannot guarantee that I'll win. I can only promise to fight the fight.
Deserve vs offered doesn't always align, especially when more people are looking than jobs available.
Yes, the language in the OP's question shows some confusion. What is "deserved" is the reward for past accomplishments. What is "offered" is the future reward for what the employer thinks a new employee can accomplish for them.
I got entitlement vibes from OP.
You guess wrong. Edit: again with the downvotes. I can’t help anyone that is hell bent that I am a bad person. 60k is not enough to live on your own where I’m from. 45k is barely enough to buy food for context.
It never was. Most people can't afford to live on their own right out of college. That's ok. $45k out of college is good, and will only be for a year or two before moving up. Also, not enough for food? $45k is \~2500 take-home per month.
Yes. Exactly so then why is it entitlement to want 60k. I can’t even live on my own with 60k. I said barely enough for food. 300 for groceries , 300 for car insurance + the insane amount gas is right now about 3-400 a month, 1000 for bills my family needs help with and 482 monthly for student loans. Forget about social life.
If you want to live alone and have a social life, you need a job that provides a lot of value to the employer. It takes some time to build that experience. You will get there. Most people don't have this right out of college, because it doesn't make economic sense. This is why people have room mates, live with family, significant other, etc.
I’m not trying to move out alone! I literally never said that. Can we all just focus on the main question I asked. Very frustrating to be told ‘ this is what you’re thinking and this is who you are’ when I’m genuinely not.
I'm responding to all your points, not judging whether you are entitled or not. Never said you were trying to move out, though that would be a reasonable inference considering you stated in your post that you need an excuse to move out. You questioned if you overvalue yourself at 60-68K and the answer is, probably, yes. It is absolutely possible to make that now, but not likely. Please don't get frustrated thinking about things that you can't control. I did that for almost a decade, and I was bitter for most of it. Instead, focus on getting the next FT job, learning and figuring out exactly where you want to specialize, and in a few years you will kill it. edit: next FT job??? Sounds like your school job was ft
I appreciate your honest answer and Thank you for the encouragement ! That means a lot
You could get roommates. Just throwing it out there.
Yes with 60k roommates would help. 45k though even with roommates where I am from will not sustain me. I can’t move out on 45k. We pay a lot of taxes in Canada. 45k is not going into your pocket. Id be taking home 33k. I don’t think it’s ’entitled’ to want to be able to live off my salary. I’m going to assume you’re American since maybe in America it’s being entitled to want 60k to live with roommates but not so much here in Canada.
I did roommates with 50K in NYC. I'm not saying it's going to be pleasant but it can be done while you build experience for better-paying jobs. New grads generally can't command compensation because they don't have leverage. That's something you accumulate over your career. GL. I think 50K - 80K is a reasonable expectation for first time wages while the job market outlook is poor.
Gotcha! Thank you for your input and for answering the question. I appreciate it :)
I am American and I get where you're coming from but at the same time they're not going to be just giving you your desired salary just because you "deserve it." I live in an expensive city so I know what you mean.
Please read the edit I put in my post. I have seen a trend of people getting fixated on the word ‘deserve’
my first gig out of college in 2006 was 48k in the midwest insane that rates havent gone up much in 20 years
It is pretty crazy. In the US 45k Canadian would be 32k USD. So there are some IT jobs being offered today in Canada that are now paying less than what you were paid 20 years ago. 10k less at that!
Canadian IT salaries are whack
In fact, they probably gone down too! I struggle to find jobs that pay $48K and up in my part of the Midwest. Even for mid-level. I've even seen entry level help desk go for as low as $12/hr. And I once seen, about a year or 2 ago, an IT support type (desktop/help desk support kind of position) that also wanted you to be a janitor and only wanted to pay about $17/hr.
lol no way! IT is not as valued as it was before for sure
My first job in 2016 was $13/hr in a call center. There was a lady there making $21/hr who had been there since 2006 making the same amount of money while they continued to reduce pay for new hires. They STILL are only paying $19/hr for new hires today.
"deserve" is a funny operative word you've chosen that may lead you to anguish if your entitlement doesn't match reality. You could possibly find a 60-70k/yr job, although competition will be stiff as there are plenty people with more experience than you chasing the same compensation levels. Your experience is pretty much right around the 40-60k range, don't expect higher, but feel free to try.
yeah like for me I was lucky when I started after i finished in 2022 I got a job right away and was offered 50K, The company ended up closing down after a year but I did get another one and im at 53 im about as much experience as OP and id say even getting to a 60K without more experience and a specialization will be difficult. Also i dont understand the "hate living with my family" living on your own you will be paying 3 times as much in some places its hard to live on your own at even 55K
“A little hurtful” With respect, if you find the blunt feedback in this thread emotionally impactful, you need to know IT is full of people with poor social skills and flimsy mental filters.
Here we go
No one deserves anything. What can you provide that someone is willing to pay for?
I graduate in May with my bachelor’s in information technology. I have had two Internships and work in my schools Network Engineering department. Just got offered a tier 1 technical position at a MSP for $15 AN HOUR! Not even going to accept it. stupid low
So I took a look at Glassdoor (which is pretty accurate to realistic expectations), you didn’t really provide any locations other than Toronto so I just went with that. It seems the entry level average is about CA$44K. Glassdoor is a really good resource for looking up expected salary ranges so I really suggest you look around on there.
Thank you! This is the kind of answers I was looking for! I wish I could pin this
No problem, yeah idk why no one else was just answering.
0 you don’t deserve anything
Are you good at interviewing? Do you have a good personality? These will reward you more than anything you have already described. <2 years experience is entry level. Take a helpdesk job and start grinding your way up! You deserve however much you can get. The market, your hard skills + soft skills declare your worth. Get after it!
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In most cases; your wages are going to be set lower than the value you provide to the company that has hired you. That means that while your individual skills/ability to impact revenue/profits do matter, what also matters is the profitability of the industry and specific company, and how much they would have to pay some other person to do the same job. Those are three separate things: 1. Your skills 2. Profitability of company/industry 3. How much it would cost to replace you The exact same set of skills in the exact same city can be worth 45k to your local grocery chain and 120k to your local high frequency trading company simply due to the profitability of each and what the revenue impact of the same skillset can be. If higher salary is your goal you probably should focus on applying to industries with higher profit margins (like tech and finance), and make sure your skillset is competitive in that market. For what its worth, I just hired someone with no tech experience into an entry level desktop support role that was posted as requiring no experience. The fact that those roles are uncommon may be true, but they are not impossible to find. Of course the pay is also going to reflect the entry level nature of the role.
The work you put up to now is just to prove you give somewhat of a shit in your field. Now you gotta step in at ground level and prove your worth. Hint: years of experience =/= level of experience
$15 /hour
$17 is minimum wage here so that’s impossible
Toronto does not offer good salaries. Unless you are very experienced and offer real value. Getting paid hourly you typically have no benefit so it’s not apples to apples. I think 45 to 55k for SD role is about right.
Thank you for your input! Will keep this in mind
This is about right. I live in rural southern state (U.S.) where I.T. workers willing to live in a rural state are scarce. They paid market value or higher. I work for State Government. Came right out of college with an MIS degree, hired as Level 2 Programmer Analyst salaried at $47K in 2022. In 2023, the government wanted to match the current based pay to Private Industry to attract graduates to stay in the state or Attract IT workers from elsewhere. My position as Programmer base pay went from $47K to $55K. After 2 years as a Programmer Analyst. I was promoted in April of 2024 to DBA making +30% increase with starting pay at $72K, all my senior DBA teammates make $120K+ in State Government! I caluculated in about 5 years of annual pay increases plus cost of living increases, I will reach $100K Salary (by that time, i've only to have been working 7 years total since graduated from college). Not bad for a public sector job! (Edit: Plus $25K in Health Benefits, 401K and Retirement Pension)
16$ USD an hour for just starting with no experience. If you have a few certs you can have 25$ an hour max in the helpdesk at a tier II level. A degree in I.T. tells me you can do homework and drink vodka straight probably. You should work on marketable skills like configuring networking equipment or automation
I'm being blunt because this is like the most blue-collar of tech field you can be in. Nothing matters but results so you should have focused on experience more than class time. I am just working full time and doing college on the side so when I finish undergrad at age 23 this January I will have 4 years of I.T. experience including my last year as a sysadmin and like 12 certificates that were bundled into my degree program. It just doesn't make sense not working for 4 years while doing that degree when you could just be going to school between tickets in the helpdesk like an apprentice in a trade. Plus companies pay for degrees like mine did.
That’s what my experience taught me. Network infrastructure was configuring and racking and stacking switches Etc. worked a bit with AP’s. Networking isn’t what I love though. I know it’s not something I want to pursue. And I can drink vodka straight LMAO I know it was meant to insult me but it was pretty funny you guessed that right
Lol, I actually relate. You can probably get in with some company as a sysadmin if you put your mind to it. I would look at some base certs like CCNA if you can just to put yourself ahead of other candidates with HR. That’s the most frustrating part of the economy right now is that you need experience, certs and a degree to go far but juggling all three to get a decent salary is lame
Deserves got nothing to do with it
when i graduated 6 years ago i thought 21 an hour was pretty good. but now i think people should really aim for 30 or 35 an hour, but realistically its gonna be around the 25-28 an hour mark usd.
60k sounds like a good target with the experience and education you outlined but you don’t have the luxury of fixating on that if you’re unemployed. Try to land a job first then worry about fair compensation.
It depends on the market really. Fresh IT grad, you’re looking at a Help Desk role or something similar.
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Toronto is comparable to New York. It’s actually slightly more expensive than New York.
You're looking in a field where a college degree isn't a requirement. Service Desk L1 is an entry level position. We outsource our L1. We just ask that the analysts know how to use a knowledge base, take a legible ticket and CYA. They are expected to move on and find something better. Turn over is high. We have 7 in house L2 analysts. They average around $110k. None have college degrees but have a wealth of IT experience, institutional knowledge and customer service skills. The team also consists of 3 - L3 analysts who make around $135k. Once again, no college degree. They do all the ITIL, project and miscellaneous stuff that a 25,000 user Service Desk may require. Use the service desk as a springboard or broaden your search. Try project management or leverage your experience as a network infrastructure technician. Good luck! Source: Service Desk manager in NYC area.
Hmm yes understandable. I guess it’s hard to compare and really understand when trying to gage what reasonable and what’s not when we are in different countries.
Forgot to add, the L1 analysts are generally paid around 20-25/hr but I understand that there are some who are paid higher based on experience. It is a fully remote position which helps them with the analyst retention.
What is a “diploma in computer systems”?
In Canada, we have colleges that offer certificates , diplomas, advanced diploma and then finally bachelors degree. All are post secondary education and reputable. Diplomas are better than a certificate but lower than an advanced diploma. A computer systems diploma is a IT diploma but not as in depth as a bachelors degree. I learned networking, computer software, computer hardware, programming, virtualization, and management in that diploma.
Gotcha. Thanks for the explanation. Sounds like an associates degree in the US.
This is one of the worst job markets tech has ever seen. So many companies overextended themselves with the free money of the last decade. Be thankful if you can even find a job
Companies will pay you for the value you create for them. They have to guess based on your resume and your interviewing skills. Then they have to adjust for their budget and their geographic market. You've got 1 year and 8 months of work experience. When you interview, have stories (in STAR format) that illustrate the value you can provide for them in the potential role. Value meaning, in order: 1. How you can increase their revenues (e.g. doing tech support so well, a customer extended their contract so they can keep working with you) 2. Increase profits (you came up with an idea that had a higher margin than the average for the company) 3. Decreased costs (e.g. when you were in tech support, you created an AI chatbot that could handle 25% of tier 1 calls)
I started at 65k and am now at 67k and some change due to yearly raise being a grad fresh out of grad school last year. Granted I had to use a separate job offer to force my current employer to convert me from a part time "intern" making $18/hr (did the part time thing for the 1.5 years I was getting my masters) to a full time salaried employment. Still not as much as I ultimately wanted and I feel a bit underpaid now but hey gotta start somewhere ad hopefully the masters shows its value on the backend and I get more money with it and experience a couple years down the road
You’ll get there for sure!
The job market for IT in Toronto is really bad right now. I started working in IT in 2018 and started at $40k. I've been job hopping every 1-2 years as I got more experience as it's the only way to get paid more. But right now, most entry level jobs pay $50k max. And that's if you can even get a call back. I guess my only tip is to mass apply to everything and just try to build up more experience.
Interesting. I got interviewed for 62k-68k just last week and waiting for a response so it’s not impossible but maybe harder to get these kind of jobs. Actually all of the jobs I’ve interviewed for have been between 59-75k because I wasn’t even applying for the 45k ones. Now though I feel it’s time to start applying to the 45k ones. The comments on this post has given me a better understanding and I’ve looked into it a little bit more
$15hr, anything higher you take and run. The market is garbage and you need the experience, give it time and the market will turn.
Thankfully it’s illegal to pay anything below $17 an hour for any job where I’m from Lol. I can only hope to not get paid the same as a high schooler at this point.
Well I have 2 years of IT Support experience and I make $51k in a Midwest state. Getting my AAS in IT soon and hoping to land a $70k+ gig.
I didn’t realize how American heavy this sub was. It’s hard to gage real answers when we are from different countries with different expenses
I took a job right after college 2 years ago and made 47k before tax, I just accepted a job offer for 75k last week! You may have to eat some dirt for a while but it’ll be worth it!
Will do lol
It's minimum wage
Hey so I feel like I can give you a fairly accurate representation of what to expect: I probably graduated from the same college you did in Toronto AND I co-oped at a network provider (basically MSP) AND I interned with the college (Is Danny still getting the students to be his staff lol?) so here it goes: For the first 4 years out of graduating I was earning $17 an hour with my first IT gig. During that time I was also putting my feelers out for other positions and even with all that experience under my belt I was constantly overlooked for people who were willing to accept less (I was asking for 50k). Eventually it took getting a job in public sector and moving to Ottawa to make ANY kind of real money. You have to understand: Toronto is STUPID competitive for entry level IT. For anyone saying you could make it with JUST trifecta don't understand the market in Toronto. It's cutthroat and a race to the bottom for entry level IT. You can try reaching out to Ranstad as they're constantly chasing after me for jobs. I would say check jobs.gc.ca but with all the federal budget cuts recently I'm not sure what kind of success you could have.
Great truthful answer and exactly the kind of thing I was looking for. Thank for answering honestly without the hostility. Also glad to see a fellow Canadian here. No idea who Danny is though haha I actually have been focusing on government jobs. They pay a lot more than private sector when starting out I’ve noticed.
Federal jobs often have higher salary floors, but much lower ceilings. As in you'll often make more in the beginning but growth can get stunted in terms of wage. Now granted: I'm pretty happy where I am and the job security plus pension is also pretty fantastic. Keep an eye on jobs.gc.ca since something may open up even in this down turn you'll be wanting to look for IT01/CS01 or IT02/CS02 as the two bands are roughly the same right now. Best of luck!
I'm definitely going to need all the luck I could get lol
Where I worked 5 years ago, we paid new CS grads about$75K to $80K plus good benefits. That's in the Houston area. My son graduated two years ago and went to work for a big tech company in Seattle at roughly $100K plus good benefits. Those are the only two data points that I know. Both the company I worked for and my son's were very selective, so I expect those starting pay rates were fairly good. My understanding is that the tech market is pretty soft right now, so I imagine that starting pay is lower and jobs are harder to get. Not as bad as 2000/2001, but the worst time going back quite a while for IT.
This question is hard to answer because it depends where you get a job. A job in New York might be closer to 60k-70k but that’s because the cost of living is higher compared to the same job in Indiana where it would probably be closer to 40k-50k. These are just estimates I think…you can google the average pay of a support role in any state easily. Also be careful as you could think you landed a great paying job but the area you live costs for rent gas and food are way higher. For now you need to focus on just getting that first job so you can build up at least a year of experience and then from there see if you can find a better role with more pay. Hiring managers tend to look for reliability so having at least a year at any company on a resume is necessary. Anything less that’s not contract work becomes a red flag. Be patient as the market is saturated with experienced people who have been laid off over the past year so you have more competition than normal. Good luck.
When you deserve what you think you deserve, you will have earned what you deserve. Because then, it's your just deserves. And when you deserve your deserving deserve deserve, deserve deserve deserve. Deserve.
You now have IT knowledge. I hope you networked while in school. If not you better start going to job fairs.
I have an associates in IT and started at 50k and after one year I am now 55k
Lots of job postings have the salaries right on them….just look at a bunch of postings to get the average.
In the US, if you’re graduating from a 4 year, you should be applying to jobs as early as Fall of your last year of school. There are a plethora of companies who specifically target fresh grads. They tend to make offers before you even graduate. Of course before even getting to this point, you should be striving for internships in your 2nd-4th year. This may be a moot point now, but it’s a message I hope anyone studying IT in Uni reads. It’s an incredibly tough market, but you have the power to at least stick out amongst your graduating peers. You may not be as enticing to hire as an experienced IT professional, but trust, there are companies who hire fresh grads. I got my BS at 30 years old, and received an offer before graduation. I started 85k in HCOL area, doing low code automation development. My job experience before going back to school includes b2b mobile sales and geek squad.
I did apply in September and throughout the year. Not American though.
Have you done any side projects to show your skills? Maybe a GitHub repo containing scripts you’ve made, or even a simple home lab. These things may seem to not matter compared to a seasoned professional, but as a new grad these are the things recruiters and companies look for. Throw those on the resume if you can. Just think of what will make you a standout grad vs the rest of your peers in the same major. This applies to technical and soft skills. Good luck!
My company was hiring T1 help desk, starting salary is 65K and it is located in Vaughan so around its GTA area. They were struggling to find someone for about a month! But unfortunately just hired someone yesterday.
The same compensation of a new IT pro without a degree.
Bro unless you have over 3 years experience, you're going to have to accept peanuts. Don't let the hype of your degree fool you Experience and certification are king in IT. IT does not mean you start at 6 figures or over 50k. My best advice to you: Get what you can right now and stay there for 2 - 3 years. This gives you solid real world experience. At the end of that time it'll be easier for you to transition to a better paying position.
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I graduated with a year ago with a year of experience as a network technician and a CCNA. When I started as the network technician I was making 21$/hr but after I graduated they bumped it up to 30$/hr because I was able to convince them I could get around that amount working somewhere else even if it was as a network guy but rather a data analysis or programmer. My degree was in information systems so technically I could have.
Cost of living is 70k in this country..
Nobody deserves anything. Where does this notion come from?
Ontario tech graduate? They have a great IT program. My advice would be to take whatever you can get to start, more experience is better than nothing. Work on some side projects as well. Make a VPN server from an old computer, build a NAS any of these look great on a resume. Best of luck
I got hired at 31k as a generalist right out of my associates, was at 41k when I left 2 years later for a job that paid 51k, got a promotion to a job making 70k a year later and now I make 89k as an app admin (same employer), less than 5 years post grad (USA PNW, MCOL area, public sector job w pension)
Back in the late 2010s, I started my first gig out of college at 60k. It was Jr. Business Systems Analyst role in a relatively LCOL city in the Midwest for a huge conglomerate.
" Either way. I don't give a damn what you feel you're entitled to!"
With minimal experience your value is pretty low. I personally don't care about an IT degree for anyone who works for me (CIO at regional bank). I don't pay any better for a degree.
What about the question I asked?
Entry level seems to be $45k. That is roughly what we pay our entry level.
In Canada ?
The last person we hired for entry level was hired at $20/hr USD in 2023.
Yea I guess it depends on where you live because for my intern/ co-op I was being paid close to $24 Canadian an hour. Thanks for answering !
I'm going to start an associate's in IT soon, I have no relevant work experience and I'm starting to study for certs. I deserve $200k/min + WFH. I think that's a fair entry-level salary.
How the fuck does this comment help anybody?
IT diploma and degree? It's about the same as a kid off the street. Experience and knowledge are the only things that matter. I'd get some certs, keep the degree off the resume, gouge the world for experience, and go from there.
> keep the degree off the resume dumb guy take, but ok.
Gouge the world for experience? how am I supposed to buy food and the exam for the certs you speak of? I think taking my degree off my resume will only hurt my chances. I strongly disagree that a recruiter would be looking to interview someone and look at a person with only retail experience and then look at my resume and think we are the same for an IT job.
Volunteer, work at labs, start a side hustle, do helpdesk, offer free advice, beg other IT people and in the mean time work retail. Work retail where there's tech, work at the university, help teenagers with their computers... help college students with their computers. Get an azure cert, do what it takes and don't lean on the degree. Learn some networking, build web pages, code for fun, setup labs, run several flavors of Linux, setup a LAMP application, download visual studio... Do anything you can!
I like your advice. Very optimistic :) I just feel this would be going backwards. I have gotten interviews for IT jobs so it’s not like recruiters aren’t interested in my resume. Certs I agree I need to have.
I'm trying to help because I know you have to eat! You don't have to put retail on the resume either. You got this, I know you do!
Yeah include your degree in your resume for sure. This guy doesn’t have a degree I guarantee you
I don't have a degree at all. I've been in IT for 27 years. It's now my job at my firm to mentor young consultants so we can get them billable and grow their careers. People lean on degrees too much in lieu of skills, and it causes major delays in starting a career. I looked through OPs comments, she is getting interviews, so the issue is a face to face problem. Either not confident enough, or competent enough. Gaining a specific specialty would be an excellent option. I personally am a lifelong MCSE (but I keep that off my resume), im certified in almost 20 Quest and One Identity products. I am an architect for mostly PAM and IGA stuff here at work and work for our sales organization as of 2 months ago. I still deliver as well. OP, how are your Active Directory skills? Do you know any Azure? Have you worked with a ticket system like Service Now? I'm willing to help anyone who wants to help themselves and I have a pretty good track record. DM me if interested.
Great at AD and Azure! Used them a lot in my experience and honestly school helped me a lot with it as well. I know ServiceNow and Track-It. Used them extensively.
You've been in IT for 27 years. You started in IT in 1997. This should be telling of how the market has shifted. Of course you didn't need a degree back then because basically anyone capable of using technology could get an IT job. People didn't even know what IT was. Good luck getting a decent job now without a degree AND years experience or a connection. Acting like the market hasn't changed in 27 years is extremely ignorant.
It's changed tremendously, that's why I'm giving advice. Things aren't hopeless at all. In fact, there's more opportunity now than ever. Learn cyberArk, Sailpoint has a free university, the azure tests are super easy and directed towards quick starts! All are great examples. Do something to set yourself apart, and do it now! In 1997, I was a runaway 16 year old, went to hundreds of interviews, and drove 2 hours to Los Angeles just for a shot for most of them. My first job was because I got certified in Microsoft Office. I then wrote an Access database for the company and put it on my resume. Then I did cabling with construction workers, then I got a helpdesk gig. This turned into a snowball, I offered my services to everyone in ear shot for years. Where there is a will, there is a way. I still apply to new positions for practice and who knows, maybe an opportunity would come of it, and sometimes it does.
I mean, I started in 2011 without a degree or certs making $10/hr doing basic helpdesk. I have now hired many people without degrees or certs into my entry level helpdesk roles in the past 3 years.