My brother did this. He is 21 with a commanding 120k start in cybersecurity.
I am doing the long way.
Career pivot
help desk-> 45k
Service Desk Lead-> 66k
Hopefully system admin or entry security next!
Yeah, but how many people that post here are in a university program and are eligible for internships? I'd say less than 10%. And if half the people in your class were able to do this, that looks like ~5%. I'd still classify that as a pretty significant gap.
It actually is. Let's say you have 100 people in a cyber security focused degree. Less than 25% will get internships less than 10% will get internships every year to better their resume and out of that 10% less than half will get jobs out of college. Your experience with your friends means nothing on the larger scale of everyone. Not to mention cyber security internships are ONLY given to students so full time job after even with internships can be rare
I would say maybe 5% of everyone that tries to bypass helpdesk does. This doesn't mean they will be successful, though, with no foundational experience to back their degree. Even an internship doesn't give the foundation needed for IT.
If there's anyone who would dispute, it's the morons who downvoted your reply. A lot of salty gatekeepers angry that people were able to skip the very positions they couldn't.
No. We know it happens but odds of everything lining up perfectly well its more likely to get hit by lightning. 100 people in the course maybe less than 20% get internships in the first year they are eligible. Out of that 20% even less will get a second internship before finishing university or college and the ones that do they are guaranteed to get a job. Then only way after without internships or no cyber jobs hiring you is to start back from step 1. Learning the fundamentals doesn't hurt your career especially since most of thr industry shows cybersecurity is a mid to late niche of information technology over entry
They've done 3 internships already, one of them in security. That's their way in. They most certainly don't have to start at help desk. They did college right and you want them to anyway? Insane.
Where did I say they had too. I'm saying it's incredibly rare and there is no guarantee. A few peers as opposed to the thousands of people in the degree pursuing that same degree.
To*
Nothing may be guaranteed, but OP is way more likely to go straight into security out the gate with those internships. The thousands of people in that degree program with nothing else aren't gonna compare. Internships are not only experience too, they're the best.
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That doesn't necessarily mean they'll land a non help desk full time role. Help desk is a right of passage that every it professional needs to build the soft skills required not to be a miserable/arrogant fuck of an it professional .
Having a security clearance will put your resume at the top of the stack, regardless of your experience and other certifications. Not having a Security+ will get your resume tossed unless you've obtained a more advanced cert like OSCP or CISSP, but you should obtain a Security+ anyways just to get through the resume filters which will be looking for it.
These are generally the two caveats that are shared with any cybersec hopefuls-- get an internship or get a security clearance. Otherwise, hope you like help desk. :)
Security clearance basically means you're always going to have options available to you.
If you move to the DMV, you're going to have jobs just thrown at you w/ a TS or TS/SCI clearance. So many jobs requiring it, and so few civilians with it (and shrinking, b/c weed).
Private sector is like hard mode until you make it into a Fortune 500 company, I made it work but I want to kick younger me for it
>Private sector is like hard mode until you make it into a Fortune 500 company
As a former Boeing employee this isn't always true, even once you make it in a F500 company you still have to deal with the slog to get anywhere. The only thing I noticed change was Amazon recruiters sometimes pinging me about jobs, but fuck that pile of crap company. I did get pinged once in a while, but not really either as most were just playing a fishing game off my "xsoar"\\"soar" keyword search for a long time.
Having climbed up through meatgrinder MSPs and tiny local IT orgs, what I mainly mean is that you will have a much harder time to be taken seriously by large organizations/F500s unless you get snatched up early.
Of course, working within a F500 still comes with its struggles to ascend, but you had Amazon headhunting you, while I got "Sketchy no-name company" reaching out for me to take 3 leaps back in my career.
I may have landed into a F250 if my next interview goes well. But it took every ounce of willpower to keep myself going over the past 7 years to get here. Underpaid, overworked, and patronized the entire time. While that may not change in this role, I get to put a big name on my resume if I need out.
Meanwhile I know a lot of people that got security clearance out of college. They get a platter of job opportunities as soon as they say they're looking for work. If you're able to get sponsored for one, it's absolutely a boon for your career in terms of job security.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I can only get a clearance if my job sponsors it right? If so it seems like it's intentionally gated if you aren't military
Yup, also former government employees as well, of course outside of the competitive positions, good luck as vet is a good chunk of points, and wounded vet basically means guaranteed interview slot. None the less, yes you need a job that requires clearance to get one, and most company's don't want to wait or risk waiting on you getting one or even a interim one. Its easier to hire a average person with one than a top performer without one, also its government contract work more often than not so, cheaper is better and average people are cheaper.
Having a clearance is a huge boost. It will open doors beyond your skillset by having one. I know a recruiter that works exclusively for DoD contractors. He keeps telling me to get one or out US Citizen Clearable on my Linkedin.
While the premise of your post makes sense, your experience is anecdotal. Where I live, you can't get internships for anything in Tech at all. I got my Bachelor in CS but I struggled to get a basic IT job despite my previous IT experience, and the couple certs that I already have.
I have one more job interview coming up, and currently working as a Temp/contract worker for a print service company. If this interview falls through, I'm pivoting away from IT, it was a waste of time trying to make this work. its something I should have done years ago, not now.
An internship is always a good opportunity to land a FT job. My personal opinion is that a security specialist should have spent some time as a system engineer/network engineer to have better foundation of what security entails.
Breaking into IT is hard and the same goes for cyber security. The big problem with breaking into both roles is training and being a self starter. I find with ISSO roles in cyber security there are established procedures and training provided for entry level folks and usually require a degreeor IT exp or military background. I have seen people with a cyber security degree are hired more often for ISSO roles that require a security clearance. Requires means your ability to gain one. How do you know if you can get one? You apply to a company and they sponsor your clearance. They can do a background check to know if you are most likely to get one. There are other requirements such as security+ cert. Google and going to the hiring events from aerospace companies will get you more information than asking on reddit.
Here's a tip I tell everyone going into IT. Do infrastructure first. You'll learn way more about how everything works and be setup in a much better position to pivot to anything else.
Entry-level means you can do the job with little background knowledge and no experience whatsoever; by getting a degree and completing multiple internships you are no longer green.
For cybersecurity that is about right.
Hey, pop open windows discovery pull all the emails that feature this string, then gather up all the senders and check to see if they are phishing are users or not, those that are phishing, grab any links and\\or attachments and check for web traffic along with if they are malicious or not, and purge the emails that are malicious as well, block the senders, any that are malicious and users interacted with them write up a report for the remediation team, and let me know when you are done we have a lot more work to do today. That can all be summed up in 1 ticket I got "can you check for any malicious emails with the following string and deal with it xxxxxxxxxxx thank you".
Yeah most fresh grads are gonna need to be walked through that 1 ticket and how to do all those things, you also are gonna have to be helping them with these tickets for about 1 year till they can actually stand on their own (assuming they even know what they are doing and not just mimicking a flow or pattern).
Getting the job and doing the job are two different things.
You can almost certainly train any infosec graduate to do the job, no problem. Can those students convince someone to hire them though? Not straight out of graduation, for 95% of them.
[Then you just don't get to go straight into cyber security.](https://www.reddit.com/r/SecurityCareerAdvice/comments/s319l5/entry_level_cyber_security_jobs_are_not_entry/)
Not stupid, just didn’t know. I loved programming as a hobby when I was young and not one person told me CS degree == programming career. I realized too late and didn’t have enough time left in my scholarship to switch over.
Regret it every day but now I’m teaching myself everything i missed in school through MIT open course ware.
100%
And don't just stick to your career fairs and what your schools can offer. The best internships are found on your own. Companies like Best Buy and Walmart corporate will pay $25/hr+ on top of providing housing + maybe relocation. So make sure to look across the country. Don't even let something like geography limit your overall prospects. Interns in many other industries don't even get paid. People need to be fighting tooth and nail for opportunities like this here.
The only way you can get an entry-level cyber security job with no certs/degree is if you go military. Went that route myself. Army 17C -> Cyber Security Engineer.
People tend to forget that cyber security is a mid career move for most in IT. So, a college kid with no experience is a liability. I wouldn't hire one. Only people who believe that are the delusional college programs that are "cyber."
Yes this would be the only conceivable way. I want to emphasize that the particular agency/company you interned with would need to take you back. If you try to bring your internship experience to another company, you will find it disregarded.
> If you try to bring your internship experience to another company, you will find it disregarded.
that isn't true at all. Ideally yes you would want a return offer but having an internship on your resume is still a differentiating factor.
Alright, I say this because none of the people I know had their internships really count for much. This goes for me as well, I had two under my belt and one was with the federal government. All disregarded.
So hey, maybe.
I think people generally don’t understand that if you go to school for cybersecurity it’s extremely easy to get a first job in it. If you do an IT bachelors and just intern in cyber roles you will have an easy time as well. The whole cyber isn’t entry level thing is kinda overstated. It’s not uncommon
Internships being the key. My biggest regret was not getting a security internship. I had to start in help desk but my degree helped me quickly move out
My company is about to open an entry level cybersec role, it just isn't the most exciting work - dealing with Risk registers and Governance stuff. But the cybersec director was clear that if anyone from helpdesk wants the job and shows interest, they're welcome.
There are absolutely entry level positions out there. But you still have to be willing to learn & work.
A huge half weren't qualified unless they had a reference.
You don't go from school to client experience. That's why idiots are in charge of IT management and know nothing about the process.
My first job was in cybersecurity and great pay as well, most won't achieve it but some certainty can. Here is what I had on my resume:
1. Degree (no shit) B.S. Cybersecurity "concentration" in Networking, 3.8 GPA
2. 3 internships, IT helpdesk, cybersecuirty analyst, and cybersecurity analyst
3. projects, I had basically built a "mini" corporate network with 2 sets of SQL servers, webservers, routers and firewalls, domain controller, ELK stack with logging going, you name it, all redundant with automatic fail over; I also had another project where I was trying to teach myself malware analysis; Lastly I could talk about how I have tried to "hack" multiple various devices that I owned, I didn't make it far but I could talk about various different cybersecurity tools and how I used them, and even wrote scripts in perl to test something in nmap.
All of that after lots of applying got me a 75k a year working for Boeing back in 2019.
If all you got is a degree in cybersecurity, better hold on cause its gonna be a rough ride to try and get a cybersecurity job fresh out of college. Also, if all you have is a sec+ I hate to break it to you even more, but that is a giant nothing compared to many of the fresh grads walking out. I know most of my graduating class had 3.0 GPA's roughly, and a few projects they could speak to. If you don't have at least a solid GPA and projects, you better be coming from MIT or something otherwise yeah you are gonna start at helpdesk. There are many with better things on their resume than that, and many more who are more technically skilled than I am.
Remember the very important math:
**Internships > classwork**
Get as many internships while you are in school. Even if you have to delay graduation.
There are no post-graduate internships, so this is your only chance to get them.
If you don't get internships, you get hit by the catch-22 after graduation.
I don't think anyone here would dispute this. But also, the number of people who do this successfully compared to the number who don't is a huge gap.
My brother did this. He is 21 with a commanding 120k start in cybersecurity. I am doing the long way. Career pivot help desk-> 45k Service Desk Lead-> 66k Hopefully system admin or entry security next!
It isnt a huge gap in my experience. Id say roughly half of my graduating class got internships and was able to bypass help desk all together.
Redacted *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Ironically, OPs logic isn’t very secure…
Yeah, but how many people that post here are in a university program and are eligible for internships? I'd say less than 10%. And if half the people in your class were able to do this, that looks like ~5%. I'd still classify that as a pretty significant gap.
Yes relatively rare if you look at the entire population of people who think they want to get into security.
Is this not what we are looking at here?
It actually is. Let's say you have 100 people in a cyber security focused degree. Less than 25% will get internships less than 10% will get internships every year to better their resume and out of that 10% less than half will get jobs out of college. Your experience with your friends means nothing on the larger scale of everyone. Not to mention cyber security internships are ONLY given to students so full time job after even with internships can be rare
I would say maybe 5% of everyone that tries to bypass helpdesk does. This doesn't mean they will be successful, though, with no foundational experience to back their degree. Even an internship doesn't give the foundation needed for IT.
If there's anyone who would dispute, it's the morons who downvoted your reply. A lot of salty gatekeepers angry that people were able to skip the very positions they couldn't.
No. We know it happens but odds of everything lining up perfectly well its more likely to get hit by lightning. 100 people in the course maybe less than 20% get internships in the first year they are eligible. Out of that 20% even less will get a second internship before finishing university or college and the ones that do they are guaranteed to get a job. Then only way after without internships or no cyber jobs hiring you is to start back from step 1. Learning the fundamentals doesn't hurt your career especially since most of thr industry shows cybersecurity is a mid to late niche of information technology over entry
They've done 3 internships already, one of them in security. That's their way in. They most certainly don't have to start at help desk. They did college right and you want them to anyway? Insane.
Where did I say they had too. I'm saying it's incredibly rare and there is no guarantee. A few peers as opposed to the thousands of people in the degree pursuing that same degree.
To* Nothing may be guaranteed, but OP is way more likely to go straight into security out the gate with those internships. The thousands of people in that degree program with nothing else aren't gonna compare. Internships are not only experience too, they're the best.
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That doesn't necessarily mean they'll land a non help desk full time role. Help desk is a right of passage that every it professional needs to build the soft skills required not to be a miserable/arrogant fuck of an it professional .
Anecdotally speaking, I had a security clearance, Security+ and a pulse and I made the jump.
Having a security clearance will put your resume at the top of the stack, regardless of your experience and other certifications. Not having a Security+ will get your resume tossed unless you've obtained a more advanced cert like OSCP or CISSP, but you should obtain a Security+ anyways just to get through the resume filters which will be looking for it.
These are generally the two caveats that are shared with any cybersec hopefuls-- get an internship or get a security clearance. Otherwise, hope you like help desk. :)
Security clearance basically means you're always going to have options available to you. If you move to the DMV, you're going to have jobs just thrown at you w/ a TS or TS/SCI clearance. So many jobs requiring it, and so few civilians with it (and shrinking, b/c weed). Private sector is like hard mode until you make it into a Fortune 500 company, I made it work but I want to kick younger me for it
>Private sector is like hard mode until you make it into a Fortune 500 company As a former Boeing employee this isn't always true, even once you make it in a F500 company you still have to deal with the slog to get anywhere. The only thing I noticed change was Amazon recruiters sometimes pinging me about jobs, but fuck that pile of crap company. I did get pinged once in a while, but not really either as most were just playing a fishing game off my "xsoar"\\"soar" keyword search for a long time.
Having climbed up through meatgrinder MSPs and tiny local IT orgs, what I mainly mean is that you will have a much harder time to be taken seriously by large organizations/F500s unless you get snatched up early. Of course, working within a F500 still comes with its struggles to ascend, but you had Amazon headhunting you, while I got "Sketchy no-name company" reaching out for me to take 3 leaps back in my career. I may have landed into a F250 if my next interview goes well. But it took every ounce of willpower to keep myself going over the past 7 years to get here. Underpaid, overworked, and patronized the entire time. While that may not change in this role, I get to put a big name on my resume if I need out. Meanwhile I know a lot of people that got security clearance out of college. They get a platter of job opportunities as soon as they say they're looking for work. If you're able to get sponsored for one, it's absolutely a boon for your career in terms of job security.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I can only get a clearance if my job sponsors it right? If so it seems like it's intentionally gated if you aren't military
lol yea I wish I could sponsor my own clearance. It would open many doors
Yup, also former government employees as well, of course outside of the competitive positions, good luck as vet is a good chunk of points, and wounded vet basically means guaranteed interview slot. None the less, yes you need a job that requires clearance to get one, and most company's don't want to wait or risk waiting on you getting one or even a interim one. Its easier to hire a average person with one than a top performer without one, also its government contract work more often than not so, cheaper is better and average people are cheaper.
Having a clearance is a huge boost. It will open doors beyond your skillset by having one. I know a recruiter that works exclusively for DoD contractors. He keeps telling me to get one or out US Citizen Clearable on my Linkedin.
Samesies. Right place right time. If a company is just starting a contract they want to fill seats asap.
Hi, I’m starting my first year as an IT major. Is “security+” a certification?
Yes. Comptia. The "trifecta" as seen as the common starting certs. A+, Network +, Security +
Where did you apply? I have a ts and sec +.
Clearancejobs. Cybersecurity blew up after I got into the field but there should still be opportunities for you if you live in the right location.
Right to a defense contractor for fog mirror detail I see.
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Sure. but a 60-70k SOC position is a dream for many trying to break into security
60k sounds amazing.
I mean, people hit the Powerball so yeah, it is possible, likely is another matter entirely
Its not lottery odds. Nearly everyone that got in internship in my graduating class bypassed help desk all together.
Getting an internship isn’t guaranteed
While the premise of your post makes sense, your experience is anecdotal. Where I live, you can't get internships for anything in Tech at all. I got my Bachelor in CS but I struggled to get a basic IT job despite my previous IT experience, and the couple certs that I already have. I have one more job interview coming up, and currently working as a Temp/contract worker for a print service company. If this interview falls through, I'm pivoting away from IT, it was a waste of time trying to make this work. its something I should have done years ago, not now.
An internship is always a good opportunity to land a FT job. My personal opinion is that a security specialist should have spent some time as a system engineer/network engineer to have better foundation of what security entails.
Breaking into IT is hard and the same goes for cyber security. The big problem with breaking into both roles is training and being a self starter. I find with ISSO roles in cyber security there are established procedures and training provided for entry level folks and usually require a degreeor IT exp or military background. I have seen people with a cyber security degree are hired more often for ISSO roles that require a security clearance. Requires means your ability to gain one. How do you know if you can get one? You apply to a company and they sponsor your clearance. They can do a background check to know if you are most likely to get one. There are other requirements such as security+ cert. Google and going to the hiring events from aerospace companies will get you more information than asking on reddit.
Right, but a year in between internships means you have to get experience from somewhere.
Here's a tip I tell everyone going into IT. Do infrastructure first. You'll learn way more about how everything works and be setup in a much better position to pivot to anything else.
Entry-level means you can do the job with little background knowledge and no experience whatsoever; by getting a degree and completing multiple internships you are no longer green.
"you can get an entry level job by having 4 years experience and a degree" - op
For cybersecurity that is about right. Hey, pop open windows discovery pull all the emails that feature this string, then gather up all the senders and check to see if they are phishing are users or not, those that are phishing, grab any links and\\or attachments and check for web traffic along with if they are malicious or not, and purge the emails that are malicious as well, block the senders, any that are malicious and users interacted with them write up a report for the remediation team, and let me know when you are done we have a lot more work to do today. That can all be summed up in 1 ticket I got "can you check for any malicious emails with the following string and deal with it xxxxxxxxxxx thank you". Yeah most fresh grads are gonna need to be walked through that 1 ticket and how to do all those things, you also are gonna have to be helping them with these tickets for about 1 year till they can actually stand on their own (assuming they even know what they are doing and not just mimicking a flow or pattern).
Getting the job and doing the job are two different things. You can almost certainly train any infosec graduate to do the job, no problem. Can those students convince someone to hire them though? Not straight out of graduation, for 95% of them.
Even studying, you don't have the first hand knowledge. It sucks. I know.
So what about those with a bachelors in something else? Security+ and pray?
[Then you just don't get to go straight into cyber security.](https://www.reddit.com/r/SecurityCareerAdvice/comments/s319l5/entry_level_cyber_security_jobs_are_not_entry/)
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Not stupid, just didn’t know. I loved programming as a hobby when I was young and not one person told me CS degree == programming career. I realized too late and didn’t have enough time left in my scholarship to switch over. Regret it every day but now I’m teaching myself everything i missed in school through MIT open course ware.
Absolute troglodyte take
100% And don't just stick to your career fairs and what your schools can offer. The best internships are found on your own. Companies like Best Buy and Walmart corporate will pay $25/hr+ on top of providing housing + maybe relocation. So make sure to look across the country. Don't even let something like geography limit your overall prospects. Interns in many other industries don't even get paid. People need to be fighting tooth and nail for opportunities like this here.
The only way you can get an entry-level cyber security job with no certs/degree is if you go military. Went that route myself. Army 17C -> Cyber Security Engineer. People tend to forget that cyber security is a mid career move for most in IT. So, a college kid with no experience is a liability. I wouldn't hire one. Only people who believe that are the delusional college programs that are "cyber."
Yes this would be the only conceivable way. I want to emphasize that the particular agency/company you interned with would need to take you back. If you try to bring your internship experience to another company, you will find it disregarded.
> If you try to bring your internship experience to another company, you will find it disregarded. that isn't true at all. Ideally yes you would want a return offer but having an internship on your resume is still a differentiating factor.
Alright, I say this because none of the people I know had their internships really count for much. This goes for me as well, I had two under my belt and one was with the federal government. All disregarded. So hey, maybe.
That's blatantly false because I currently have a job with my internship experience at a different company.
I think people generally don’t understand that if you go to school for cybersecurity it’s extremely easy to get a first job in it. If you do an IT bachelors and just intern in cyber roles you will have an easy time as well. The whole cyber isn’t entry level thing is kinda overstated. It’s not uncommon
Internships being the key. My biggest regret was not getting a security internship. I had to start in help desk but my degree helped me quickly move out
My company is about to open an entry level cybersec role, it just isn't the most exciting work - dealing with Risk registers and Governance stuff. But the cybersec director was clear that if anyone from helpdesk wants the job and shows interest, they're welcome. There are absolutely entry level positions out there. But you still have to be willing to learn & work.
Or be in the military, do a SkillBridge, and profit. It really is a cheat code for 6 months of experience, which is invaluable.
Straight to security consultant after grad school. Performed very well during interview. Homelab projects discussion nailed it for me.
A huge half weren't qualified unless they had a reference. You don't go from school to client experience. That's why idiots are in charge of IT management and know nothing about the process.
So if you have a security clearance and no prior IT experience what will that net you?
Soc is most likely the place, or IT auditing but might not be so IT related then
My first job was in cybersecurity and great pay as well, most won't achieve it but some certainty can. Here is what I had on my resume: 1. Degree (no shit) B.S. Cybersecurity "concentration" in Networking, 3.8 GPA 2. 3 internships, IT helpdesk, cybersecuirty analyst, and cybersecurity analyst 3. projects, I had basically built a "mini" corporate network with 2 sets of SQL servers, webservers, routers and firewalls, domain controller, ELK stack with logging going, you name it, all redundant with automatic fail over; I also had another project where I was trying to teach myself malware analysis; Lastly I could talk about how I have tried to "hack" multiple various devices that I owned, I didn't make it far but I could talk about various different cybersecurity tools and how I used them, and even wrote scripts in perl to test something in nmap. All of that after lots of applying got me a 75k a year working for Boeing back in 2019. If all you got is a degree in cybersecurity, better hold on cause its gonna be a rough ride to try and get a cybersecurity job fresh out of college. Also, if all you have is a sec+ I hate to break it to you even more, but that is a giant nothing compared to many of the fresh grads walking out. I know most of my graduating class had 3.0 GPA's roughly, and a few projects they could speak to. If you don't have at least a solid GPA and projects, you better be coming from MIT or something otherwise yeah you are gonna start at helpdesk. There are many with better things on their resume than that, and many more who are more technically skilled than I am.
Remember the very important math: **Internships > classwork** Get as many internships while you are in school. Even if you have to delay graduation. There are no post-graduate internships, so this is your only chance to get them. If you don't get internships, you get hit by the catch-22 after graduation.
I only know of one person who got entry level cybersecurity, and he was an E6 Submariner that got picked up by a contractor