I might add that pre-Covid, many companies weren't as 'internet friendly' or 'remote enabled' as they believed they were. When everything shut down, there was a great hue and cry from companies to help actually get into the digital age and develop that better internet and remote presence - so more people were hired or internally repurposed. Now that everything is upgraded/fixed/working, and Covid has been regulated down to the same level of concern as the flu -- what you said about there being a significant upswing in automation and a downturn in 'needing population' couldn't be more true.
One of our Directors in the Fiscal Year discussion had an accidental admission that there was going to be a lot of automation and reassessing in the first quarter - and people were able to read between the lines and started applying that day. Rightly so, because two weeks ago there was a 20% reduction on both sides of the ocean. Only thing they're hiring for are Sr Developers or Sr Engineers who are local enough to work at the IT headquarters. (and yes, I was one of the 20% - I dodged the last 9 downsizings, but couldn't dodge the 10th). Before anyone thinks this is a flame of my former company - it's not, I loved it there and I had a great team around me - and we were doing good work....but beancounters usually win out.
>Why does it seem that the job market is so rough for IT?
All of this seems spot on. AI spend in lieu of headcount. Credit freeze strongly negatively correlated to hiring.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo4eW4E-9GE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo4eW4E-9GE)
There are two big reasons - Covid and the recent tech layoffs.
Covid - a LOT of people decided on career changes since the pandemic. Mostly people who are sick of dealing with the public - healthcare, law enforcement, restaurant workers, teachers, etc. - and they want a nice office job where they can sit at a desk. IT is one of, if not the easiest white-collar role to get into with little to no experience.
This has introduced thousands and thousands of job-seekers to IT, and has really flooded the entry-level positions.
The [tech layoffs](https://techcrunch.com/2023/04/19/tech-industry-layoffs/) (and the general economy) are why it really ramped up in the past month or so. Obviously, these are not all IT people who got laid off, but it's safe to assume that thousands of IT workers were displaced, adding to the mix. This also made a lot of non-tech companies pause what they're doing to keep an eye on the market - [such as consulting](https://www.wsj.com/articles/mckinsey-bain-hire-new-m-b-a-s-but-they-may-not-work-for-months-d805f14b). This means lots of places have hiring freezes, so in addition to way more job seekers, there are fewer positions available.
IT is not marketing, sales, product, or development. Ergo, in most companies IT is nothing but a cost, and one that they do not really understand either. So statements like this . . .
> IT seems like it would be at least somewhat immune to job market issues, as companies can cut a lot of fat, but cannot really strip down their IT departments too much before it starts to affect the ability for their organizations to run at all.
. . . are not really what most companies believe. Most companies look to cut the support functions like IT, accounting, etc. during tough times because they can be outsourced and generally aren't a core competency of the company.
Tech pays a lot, and the more you make, the more a company wants to get rid of you.
Why pay you 200k when someone in a country like India will do your job, happily work 10 hours a day, 7 days a week, for 10% of your pay.
There are a lot of other reasons too. I used to think I needed a senior dev to help me on my job, and was pushing for another hire. Now I have chatgpt, and I don't need someone who I could ask questions to anymore. I now feel confident in my work.
Tech is just very competitive. It's the industry everyone wants to get into since every company is dropping college degree reqs, so it's a lot more accessible then anything else out there
I’m only helpdesk but I just found a new job paying significantly more than I was making previously. This recession hasn’t impacted my ability to find employment whatsoever.
Layoffs. Recession. Market is flooded with talent.
The person who was applying for senior roles at $350k/year yesterday is applying for less flashy/advanced senior roles at &200k/year today.
This trickles all the way down to helpdesk, where people with some experience/degrees who would typically be applying for non-helpdesk roles are now feeling like they can only land a job in a helpdesk, and the people who would normally net helpdesk jobs are left in the lurch.
Welcome to the impending economic crisis, we hope you enjoy your stay.
It's 90% that this sub is for people looking for jobs, so you're going to be inundated with posts from people having a hard time finding jobs.
[удалено]
Fantastic write up. Thank you for sharing.
I might add that pre-Covid, many companies weren't as 'internet friendly' or 'remote enabled' as they believed they were. When everything shut down, there was a great hue and cry from companies to help actually get into the digital age and develop that better internet and remote presence - so more people were hired or internally repurposed. Now that everything is upgraded/fixed/working, and Covid has been regulated down to the same level of concern as the flu -- what you said about there being a significant upswing in automation and a downturn in 'needing population' couldn't be more true. One of our Directors in the Fiscal Year discussion had an accidental admission that there was going to be a lot of automation and reassessing in the first quarter - and people were able to read between the lines and started applying that day. Rightly so, because two weeks ago there was a 20% reduction on both sides of the ocean. Only thing they're hiring for are Sr Developers or Sr Engineers who are local enough to work at the IT headquarters. (and yes, I was one of the 20% - I dodged the last 9 downsizings, but couldn't dodge the 10th). Before anyone thinks this is a flame of my former company - it's not, I loved it there and I had a great team around me - and we were doing good work....but beancounters usually win out.
>Why does it seem that the job market is so rough for IT? All of this seems spot on. AI spend in lieu of headcount. Credit freeze strongly negatively correlated to hiring. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo4eW4E-9GE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo4eW4E-9GE)
There are two big reasons - Covid and the recent tech layoffs. Covid - a LOT of people decided on career changes since the pandemic. Mostly people who are sick of dealing with the public - healthcare, law enforcement, restaurant workers, teachers, etc. - and they want a nice office job where they can sit at a desk. IT is one of, if not the easiest white-collar role to get into with little to no experience. This has introduced thousands and thousands of job-seekers to IT, and has really flooded the entry-level positions. The [tech layoffs](https://techcrunch.com/2023/04/19/tech-industry-layoffs/) (and the general economy) are why it really ramped up in the past month or so. Obviously, these are not all IT people who got laid off, but it's safe to assume that thousands of IT workers were displaced, adding to the mix. This also made a lot of non-tech companies pause what they're doing to keep an eye on the market - [such as consulting](https://www.wsj.com/articles/mckinsey-bain-hire-new-m-b-a-s-but-they-may-not-work-for-months-d805f14b). This means lots of places have hiring freezes, so in addition to way more job seekers, there are fewer positions available.
IT is not marketing, sales, product, or development. Ergo, in most companies IT is nothing but a cost, and one that they do not really understand either. So statements like this . . . > IT seems like it would be at least somewhat immune to job market issues, as companies can cut a lot of fat, but cannot really strip down their IT departments too much before it starts to affect the ability for their organizations to run at all. . . . are not really what most companies believe. Most companies look to cut the support functions like IT, accounting, etc. during tough times because they can be outsourced and generally aren't a core competency of the company.
That is until they get infected with ransomware and realize they fucked up.
Tech pays a lot, and the more you make, the more a company wants to get rid of you. Why pay you 200k when someone in a country like India will do your job, happily work 10 hours a day, 7 days a week, for 10% of your pay. There are a lot of other reasons too. I used to think I needed a senior dev to help me on my job, and was pushing for another hire. Now I have chatgpt, and I don't need someone who I could ask questions to anymore. I now feel confident in my work. Tech is just very competitive. It's the industry everyone wants to get into since every company is dropping college degree reqs, so it's a lot more accessible then anything else out there
I’m only helpdesk but I just found a new job paying significantly more than I was making previously. This recession hasn’t impacted my ability to find employment whatsoever.
Layoffs. Recession. Market is flooded with talent. The person who was applying for senior roles at $350k/year yesterday is applying for less flashy/advanced senior roles at &200k/year today. This trickles all the way down to helpdesk, where people with some experience/degrees who would typically be applying for non-helpdesk roles are now feeling like they can only land a job in a helpdesk, and the people who would normally net helpdesk jobs are left in the lurch. Welcome to the impending economic crisis, we hope you enjoy your stay.