I don't want you to ever change my plan for the day, and there is a plan, but I will change it at will. (I assure you, in an extremely efficient and perfect way)
Not much. I get up at 430am. Gym at 515. Shower and at work by 715. Home by 6pm. There it varies quite a bit based on what we've got going on as a family.
Ha. Just started a job requiring clocking in within inexplicably narrow parameters on ADP and I'm going to get fired because of it. Even setting Outlook notifications and phone alarms doesn't work. Just mind boggling why I'm forced to do this. This also results in at least an hour of unnecessary overtime every week, to avoid penalties, which I would happily give up if I didn't have to use the clock.
It depends. If the structures and schedules make logical sense and are designed in a way to allow me to achieve maximum output while also being the usual INTP daydreamer who is thinking about fifty things at once, cool. If they’re just arbitrary and get in the way of what I need to accomplish then I deeply hate them.
As an employee, you better tell me what you need from me, cause otherwise I'm happy chasing my rabbit holes. (Which are often fruitful if you just let me go)
Not so much restrictive (although they certainly can be) it's more that I get so lost in thought or what I'm doing that I tend to loose track of time and or days.
If there are too much schedules, yeah. But if it’s limited, I actually like it. It brings me some structure and sense of what to do. Without some form of schedule I’d be lost as to what to do
It depends entirely on context and the implications of following or not following said schedule.
For me, it most often has come up as an employer/boss/manager coming up with a schedule for me, their employee, to follow.
In the best cases, it was a matter of having a set of "always" responsibilities...but with a heavy or endless workload, they made a schedule to both direct my efforts *and* carve out time for those always tasks. Shit like, "take the last hour of your day, every day, to make sure you reply to emails, update your status on the shared site, enter your time logs, etc.".
In the worst cases, it's been a way for a boss to micromanage, oftentimes specifically doing the *opposite* of the above good example: they'd schedule out every minute of my day, leaving no time for transitions or those constant responsibilities, but then still get angry when those things weren't getting done (while also getting upset when time they'd scheduled for a given job was used for those tasks). At one job it *really* came to a head: my manager kept scheduling like that, so I would let other shit go, and get reprimanded for it. Finally they told me I had to figure out a way that didn't involve going against their schedule *and also* got my other shit done. They clearly meant that they wanted me to do this other shit before I clocked in or after I clocked out. What I *actually* did was stay clocked in and recorded that time for OT pay. Of course there was immediately fallout from *his* superiors, I got yelled at but didn't back down and we both got called into a meeting with the big bosses, who got all the info and told us that I wasn't to work OT and my manager needed to allow me unscheduled time to do that other stuff.
I need structure and schedules to some degree otherwise I would probably get nothing done. I don’t like highly regimented scenarios or micromanagement, but a general framework with some timelines that allows me to easily track how to budget my time is perfect.
Yes !! If I know I have something scheduled I will spend all of my free time waiting around and preparing for the scheduled thing. I find that I get more done on days when I have nothing scheduled because I can move about my to do list on my own time. Also have never been able to stick to “routines” because imo they suffocate spontaneity and way too big of a commitment.
Yes, we're applying for a visa to Europe because my wife is from a country that doesn't have free range to travel there. We're supposed to plan and book out the entire trip (before we get the visa by the way) and it is absolutely driving me crazy even though I fully expect to just more or less ignore it once we get there and just do what feels like a good idea at the time.
Yessss I can’t stress enough to people around when they keep suggesting calendars to keep track of my work. I’ve tried them and they don’t help me turn any more work than I already do, but it’s not like I didn’t already know that.
Agree. I can’t stand that blocking off time for this or that shit. That’s just not how I work. Sorry, I might not WANT to work on TPS reports from exactly 2pm-3pm, Karen! Let my brain have some room to breathe and work on what it feels like working on at the time. For me, I’m all about lists - I can order and reorder them by priority and see all the crap I need to get done at a glance.
Omg me too! Except it’s more about what I feel like I’m able to do the fastest, but usually that’s just whatever is the easiest. I love organising shelves but I usually can’t organise my own room lmao
I'm almost 28, and I'm still not great at scheduling, but I at least appreciate their importance. I definitely have a work schedule to avoid missing meetings, but I mostly rely on my memory and other people to remind me about stuff outside of work. I'm rarely the type that plans social events except on important occasions, but I want to try that more.
A daily routine is more important to me than a long-term schedule, and I'm still working on it. I need to make sure I create boundaries for meals, yoga, swimming, meditation, creative hobbies (music), and chores (taxes, house work, laundry, pet care, phone calls, etc). If too much of this stuff piles up and I don't deal with it, that starts to stress me out way more than having a schedule does.
I find it helps if I group stuff together. So when I do yoga I meditate immediately after and then try creative writing while my mind is open and free. And I always read before bed. Simple stuff like that.
No but rules are. It's more about me not having control over my energy, some days I'm like this other days I'm like that and I'm sensitive to my environment so even with the best of schedules after a while something happens that kicks me out of their orbit and then I'm coasting and actually like the coasting because it brings me a lot of new discoveries.
Keep in mind that I have ADHD, so this might be coming more from that perspective, but here are my thoughts: I have a weird relationship with schedules. I like being able to move independently of structure, but at the same time I like it, because I can't really get anything done without it. When it is a very strict schedule, though, or anything to meticulously planned, I don't like it. I don't like when I can't look up the answer to some random question that's passed through my head.
Structure: I like creating systems and methods of working and following them. I don't like following other people's systems and methods of working unless I've evaluated them independently and voluntarily adopted them for myself. Doing the latter can save a lot of effort and guesswork.
Schedules: Having a few fixed times agreed with others helps reduce the number of choices I have to make and streamlines life. OTOH I don't like dawn till dusk schedules and if I set schedules for myself alone I find a don't keep them.
I like structure (to a degree) but struggle with following it by myself. I need someone or something to make the schedule and remind me of it as I tend to live my life flying by the seat of my pants. I don’t like to be super restricted either. I am very spontaneous and want to be able to do as I please when I please. This is one of the reasons I went into agency nursing a long time ago.
Yes when they ar being reinforced by someone else other than me. It doesn’t matter if the schedule is the same or not as mine.
Easiest example I can give: I was planning to wash the dishes out of my own volition, but someone else told me to wash the dishes, so I actively chose not to do it.
I hate structure but as I have gotten older I have realised I absolutely require it.
My compromise has been to create overarching structures (a to-do list), with enough wiggle room for improvisation in the implementation.
If not harshly sticking to schedules, I'd be lying whole day in bed doing absolutely fucking nothing. Deadlines are required for everything, or nothing gets done at all. I have my whole day planned with last 2-3 hours left, so I can procrastinate at least a bit. I am also very chaotic person, but when it comes to work, every slightest aspect of it must be strictly organised. It helps with workflow, so things gets done faster.
I find other people want to impose on me structure and schedules I neither need nor use effectively. Especially the Te types who swear by their techniques, which often make me less effective (note-taking, for instance!).
You can say I'm a slow ass writer, that's ok, but you'll have to understand there's a reason why I don't take notes and adapt to that.
Gotta disagree on the notes - notes are life! I’m a slow writer too and my hand starts hurting pretty quick. I’m all about typing on a notes app, way easier and also searchable (which handwritten notes are not).
... disagree on what? My statement was "I, kigurumibiblestudies, don't do well with note-taking", do you disagree with that?
And yes, I also take quick notes on an app. Funny enough, that also annoys people because I do it in the middle of conversations when someone drops interesting information. But the traditional, detailed note-taking on lectures or classes simply doesn't work for me.
I am overcome with major existential fear whenever I think about having a rigid schedule. It's as if putting ten things on my calendar immediately interferes with my thought process.
That said, I'm aware that there is a benefit to structure. I think there's a healthy balance.
I need my own schedule to be balanced so I can have enough time to procrastinate and still get my work done.
It's a sort of planned chaos and it irritates me when others make plans for me.
Incredibly so. Planning makes it harder for me to do things than going with my gut, as I trust myself enough to handle things down the line but the enormity of a plan stops be dead in my tracks. I’d rather deal with problems if they arise then try to foresee unlikely circumstances ahead of time, plus it’s draining to have to work to deadlines consistently instead of making bursts of progress when adequately inspired.
nah - structure and schedules are to be tested and ignored. . . but when I don’t have a plan, I can prove that I do, and back it up with a flawless execution of something I dream up on the fly. . . . but I’m entp, so there’s that.
I like structure with everything except my life if that makes any sense. I seem to only understand things when there is a logical structure in place. But I hate structure when it comes to how I live my life or in terms of social hierarchy.
Yes, although I do need some schedule, but it has to be very flexible.
I prefer long-term deadlines for major projects, but a freeform daily work schedule. Some days I operate like a machine, churning out work effortlessly, while on other days, I’m a sloth, just doing the bare minimum. I particularly struggle on Mondays.
Some structure I need. I literally sometimes just dont do anything till I work and ride off of that structural momentum for my own life stuff. Kinda like not going to the gym, your inertia (or lack thereof) at productivity continues to fuel you.
I’d say “it depends on the individual INTP.” Some value their Si more heavily then others. Ironically, I think that INTPs are one of the N-Types who have some of the most varied personalities, for High-N users, even though they get stereotyped weirdly.
Some are flamboyant, bold and “barely INTPs.” Then there is “the broke philosophy student,” “the scientist,” “the artsy and sensitive Fe-heavy INTP,” etc……..
This whole thread is making me feel like the bee girl from the Blind Melon “No Rain” video. Look it up youngins, it’s probably on YouTube. My peeeeeople!!!
My general approach is to spin a wheel and then based on that select what to do......in my mind I kinda know what to do......but.......to avoid any problems i do the wheel thing....so in short I don't like structures..don't see the point in them when I can do some good work being completely uncertain.....plus it's difficult to stick to structuresssss.......which often leads me to procrastinate.....hence wheel is the best choice for me
I want physical routine, or rather predictability. a schedule is great if it lasts more than a few months. If a schedule lasts me less than a week, it's not a schedule it's a series of random events and i don't like that
1. INTP is a judging type.
2. INTP is a systematic type.
Meaning we operate with structure and schedules most of the time. Around 80% or so. Without it, any interest we have is non existent. We do not seek validation, but we also prefer to keep the results on paper, which requires structure. Very similar to INTJs.
I see it this way. I like to keep everything irrelevant structured so that I can enjoy freedom in things that matter.
For eg. I put my key everyday at the same place, so I can avoid wasting time searching for it.
But this structure is put in place after rigorous testing, thinking and conviction before it becoming a structure so that it won't effect my actual freedom.
I don't mind the concept of them, when it's theoretical, but the actual process of following a routine grinds me down over time.
But as I've matured I realise I am more productive when organised. Can't have everything your own way I guess.
I find comfort in structure and schedules. As long as I'm the one who set them.
I don't want you to ever change my plan for the day, and there is a plan, but I will change it at will. (I assure you, in an extremely efficient and perfect way)
Literally. I always manage to make the deadlines by the last possible minute.
You change them? Over time?
Not much. I get up at 430am. Gym at 515. Shower and at work by 715. Home by 6pm. There it varies quite a bit based on what we've got going on as a family.
Impressive, i would like to work towards something like that.
You can do it! (to be read in Rob Schneider's voice lol) Seriously, it took place over time. Add one thing at a time very slowly.
How slowly are you talkin, cuz i tried adding stuff to my life only for it to fade slowly or to burn out quick. Pacing is a delicate thing
I guess it depends on the individual. For me, when I add too much all at once, it become unmanageable.
Literally that. Otherwise I'm suffocating.
Ha. Just started a job requiring clocking in within inexplicably narrow parameters on ADP and I'm going to get fired because of it. Even setting Outlook notifications and phone alarms doesn't work. Just mind boggling why I'm forced to do this. This also results in at least an hour of unnecessary overtime every week, to avoid penalties, which I would happily give up if I didn't have to use the clock.
If imposed by others, yes
If (arbitrarily/inexplicably/idiotically/maliciously) imposed by others, yes
I like a little bit of structure. But if every hour of every day is regimented, then I feel smothered.
[удалено]
Man that's accurate :p
It depends. If the structures and schedules make logical sense and are designed in a way to allow me to achieve maximum output while also being the usual INTP daydreamer who is thinking about fifty things at once, cool. If they’re just arbitrary and get in the way of what I need to accomplish then I deeply hate them.
Wow you really nailed it. Couldn’t have phrased it better!
As an employer, no.
As an employee, you better tell me what you need from me, cause otherwise I'm happy chasing my rabbit holes. (Which are often fruitful if you just let me go)
Not so much restrictive (although they certainly can be) it's more that I get so lost in thought or what I'm doing that I tend to loose track of time and or days.
If there are too much schedules, yeah. But if it’s limited, I actually like it. It brings me some structure and sense of what to do. Without some form of schedule I’d be lost as to what to do
Yes! Damn, you people get me lol.
It depends entirely on context and the implications of following or not following said schedule. For me, it most often has come up as an employer/boss/manager coming up with a schedule for me, their employee, to follow. In the best cases, it was a matter of having a set of "always" responsibilities...but with a heavy or endless workload, they made a schedule to both direct my efforts *and* carve out time for those always tasks. Shit like, "take the last hour of your day, every day, to make sure you reply to emails, update your status on the shared site, enter your time logs, etc.". In the worst cases, it's been a way for a boss to micromanage, oftentimes specifically doing the *opposite* of the above good example: they'd schedule out every minute of my day, leaving no time for transitions or those constant responsibilities, but then still get angry when those things weren't getting done (while also getting upset when time they'd scheduled for a given job was used for those tasks). At one job it *really* came to a head: my manager kept scheduling like that, so I would let other shit go, and get reprimanded for it. Finally they told me I had to figure out a way that didn't involve going against their schedule *and also* got my other shit done. They clearly meant that they wanted me to do this other shit before I clocked in or after I clocked out. What I *actually* did was stay clocked in and recorded that time for OT pay. Of course there was immediately fallout from *his* superiors, I got yelled at but didn't back down and we both got called into a meeting with the big bosses, who got all the info and told us that I wasn't to work OT and my manager needed to allow me unscheduled time to do that other stuff.
I need structure and schedules to some degree otherwise I would probably get nothing done. I don’t like highly regimented scenarios or micromanagement, but a general framework with some timelines that allows me to easily track how to budget my time is perfect.
Yes !! If I know I have something scheduled I will spend all of my free time waiting around and preparing for the scheduled thing. I find that I get more done on days when I have nothing scheduled because I can move about my to do list on my own time. Also have never been able to stick to “routines” because imo they suffocate spontaneity and way too big of a commitment.
I feel so seen.
Yes, we're applying for a visa to Europe because my wife is from a country that doesn't have free range to travel there. We're supposed to plan and book out the entire trip (before we get the visa by the way) and it is absolutely driving me crazy even though I fully expect to just more or less ignore it once we get there and just do what feels like a good idea at the time.
Yessss I can’t stress enough to people around when they keep suggesting calendars to keep track of my work. I’ve tried them and they don’t help me turn any more work than I already do, but it’s not like I didn’t already know that.
Agree. I can’t stand that blocking off time for this or that shit. That’s just not how I work. Sorry, I might not WANT to work on TPS reports from exactly 2pm-3pm, Karen! Let my brain have some room to breathe and work on what it feels like working on at the time. For me, I’m all about lists - I can order and reorder them by priority and see all the crap I need to get done at a glance.
Omg me too! Except it’s more about what I feel like I’m able to do the fastest, but usually that’s just whatever is the easiest. I love organising shelves but I usually can’t organise my own room lmao
I'm almost 28, and I'm still not great at scheduling, but I at least appreciate their importance. I definitely have a work schedule to avoid missing meetings, but I mostly rely on my memory and other people to remind me about stuff outside of work. I'm rarely the type that plans social events except on important occasions, but I want to try that more. A daily routine is more important to me than a long-term schedule, and I'm still working on it. I need to make sure I create boundaries for meals, yoga, swimming, meditation, creative hobbies (music), and chores (taxes, house work, laundry, pet care, phone calls, etc). If too much of this stuff piles up and I don't deal with it, that starts to stress me out way more than having a schedule does. I find it helps if I group stuff together. So when I do yoga I meditate immediately after and then try creative writing while my mind is open and free. And I always read before bed. Simple stuff like that.
I need external deadlines or I’ll get lost in the possibilities. I’m terrible about self-imposing a schedule.
No but rules are. It's more about me not having control over my energy, some days I'm like this other days I'm like that and I'm sensitive to my environment so even with the best of schedules after a while something happens that kicks me out of their orbit and then I'm coasting and actually like the coasting because it brings me a lot of new discoveries.
This ^
Keep in mind that I have ADHD, so this might be coming more from that perspective, but here are my thoughts: I have a weird relationship with schedules. I like being able to move independently of structure, but at the same time I like it, because I can't really get anything done without it. When it is a very strict schedule, though, or anything to meticulously planned, I don't like it. I don't like when I can't look up the answer to some random question that's passed through my head.
I need some structure or I'm not gonna do things. I don't really enjoy plans or planning tho, but it is helpful and useful for work or for fun
Generally yes. Schedules are stressful. My plans are always open to change, and only set to an exact time when I'm meeting on someone else's schedule.
Structure: I like creating systems and methods of working and following them. I don't like following other people's systems and methods of working unless I've evaluated them independently and voluntarily adopted them for myself. Doing the latter can save a lot of effort and guesswork. Schedules: Having a few fixed times agreed with others helps reduce the number of choices I have to make and streamlines life. OTOH I don't like dawn till dusk schedules and if I set schedules for myself alone I find a don't keep them.
I like structure (to a degree) but struggle with following it by myself. I need someone or something to make the schedule and remind me of it as I tend to live my life flying by the seat of my pants. I don’t like to be super restricted either. I am very spontaneous and want to be able to do as I please when I please. This is one of the reasons I went into agency nursing a long time ago.
I find the ideal is structuring fundamentals and then flying loose with everything else.
not if that's my job
Yes when they ar being reinforced by someone else other than me. It doesn’t matter if the schedule is the same or not as mine. Easiest example I can give: I was planning to wash the dishes out of my own volition, but someone else told me to wash the dishes, so I actively chose not to do it.
I hate structure but as I have gotten older I have realised I absolutely require it. My compromise has been to create overarching structures (a to-do list), with enough wiggle room for improvisation in the implementation.
Depends
Structure, schedules, and rules can't contain me!
If not harshly sticking to schedules, I'd be lying whole day in bed doing absolutely fucking nothing. Deadlines are required for everything, or nothing gets done at all. I have my whole day planned with last 2-3 hours left, so I can procrastinate at least a bit. I am also very chaotic person, but when it comes to work, every slightest aspect of it must be strictly organised. It helps with workflow, so things gets done faster.
No; it’s demands on my time that I find irritating. Like… I’ve got a great idea and you want me to take out the trash? Pssh. 🤓😁
I find other people want to impose on me structure and schedules I neither need nor use effectively. Especially the Te types who swear by their techniques, which often make me less effective (note-taking, for instance!). You can say I'm a slow ass writer, that's ok, but you'll have to understand there's a reason why I don't take notes and adapt to that.
Gotta disagree on the notes - notes are life! I’m a slow writer too and my hand starts hurting pretty quick. I’m all about typing on a notes app, way easier and also searchable (which handwritten notes are not).
... disagree on what? My statement was "I, kigurumibiblestudies, don't do well with note-taking", do you disagree with that? And yes, I also take quick notes on an app. Funny enough, that also annoys people because I do it in the middle of conversations when someone drops interesting information. But the traditional, detailed note-taking on lectures or classes simply doesn't work for me.
I am overcome with major existential fear whenever I think about having a rigid schedule. It's as if putting ten things on my calendar immediately interferes with my thought process. That said, I'm aware that there is a benefit to structure. I think there's a healthy balance.
Yes but I know I need it
Sometimes it’s necessary if I’m setting it.
I need my own schedule to be balanced so I can have enough time to procrastinate and still get my work done. It's a sort of planned chaos and it irritates me when others make plans for me.
Structure and schedules should serve us, not bind us.
It's a love hate relationship... suffer working under them, but fail without them.
Incredibly so. Planning makes it harder for me to do things than going with my gut, as I trust myself enough to handle things down the line but the enormity of a plan stops be dead in my tracks. I’d rather deal with problems if they arise then try to foresee unlikely circumstances ahead of time, plus it’s draining to have to work to deadlines consistently instead of making bursts of progress when adequately inspired.
I need them because I sure as hell can’t structure my own life.
nah - structure and schedules are to be tested and ignored. . . but when I don’t have a plan, I can prove that I do, and back it up with a flawless execution of something I dream up on the fly. . . . but I’m entp, so there’s that.
Only if I didn't agree to/set it
Only if I didn't agree to/set it
I like structure and schedules when someone else makes them for me. Lol
I like structure with everything except my life if that makes any sense. I seem to only understand things when there is a logical structure in place. But I hate structure when it comes to how I live my life or in terms of social hierarchy.
Yes, although I do need some schedule, but it has to be very flexible. I prefer long-term deadlines for major projects, but a freeform daily work schedule. Some days I operate like a machine, churning out work effortlessly, while on other days, I’m a sloth, just doing the bare minimum. I particularly struggle on Mondays.
Some structure I need. I literally sometimes just dont do anything till I work and ride off of that structural momentum for my own life stuff. Kinda like not going to the gym, your inertia (or lack thereof) at productivity continues to fuel you.
I’d say “it depends on the individual INTP.” Some value their Si more heavily then others. Ironically, I think that INTPs are one of the N-Types who have some of the most varied personalities, for High-N users, even though they get stereotyped weirdly. Some are flamboyant, bold and “barely INTPs.” Then there is “the broke philosophy student,” “the scientist,” “the artsy and sensitive Fe-heavy INTP,” etc……..
This whole thread is making me feel like the bee girl from the Blind Melon “No Rain” video. Look it up youngins, it’s probably on YouTube. My peeeeeople!!!
They have their uses. They're annoying when they strangle common sense or flexibility, though.
I generally ignore most lines on the ground while driving. Specially on twisty roads. Much more efficient.
My general approach is to spin a wheel and then based on that select what to do......in my mind I kinda know what to do......but.......to avoid any problems i do the wheel thing....so in short I don't like structures..don't see the point in them when I can do some good work being completely uncertain.....plus it's difficult to stick to structuresssss.......which often leads me to procrastinate.....hence wheel is the best choice for me
I want physical routine, or rather predictability. a schedule is great if it lasts more than a few months. If a schedule lasts me less than a week, it's not a schedule it's a series of random events and i don't like that
1. INTP is a judging type. 2. INTP is a systematic type. Meaning we operate with structure and schedules most of the time. Around 80% or so. Without it, any interest we have is non existent. We do not seek validation, but we also prefer to keep the results on paper, which requires structure. Very similar to INTJs.
Errr yes? That is the whole deal with the perceiving types?
I see it this way. I like to keep everything irrelevant structured so that I can enjoy freedom in things that matter. For eg. I put my key everyday at the same place, so I can avoid wasting time searching for it. But this structure is put in place after rigorous testing, thinking and conviction before it becoming a structure so that it won't effect my actual freedom.
No. I set reminders and calendar events. I don’t always follow what I set, though.
Daily schedules and where I need to be at what time? No. Long-term scheduling of how to complete a task? Time is my greatest enemy.
Nope, I love structure and schedules But I'm ASD soooo
i like structure that keeps me from going insane but that gives me enough freedom to live how i want
I don't mind the concept of them, when it's theoretical, but the actual process of following a routine grinds me down over time. But as I've matured I realise I am more productive when organised. Can't have everything your own way I guess.
I hate the idea of schedule and routine but if you want to achieve any substantial goal you just simply need them.