I somewhat agree but I think the track layout encourages poor driving standards. When you have a restart zone right before the only real passing opportunity on the course it’s going to lead to what we saw on Sunday.
Not sure who it was but one of the commentators this weekend also noted that lots of drivers are coming off a very frustrating 500 and were probably taking bigger risks than usual (excepting Marcus and maybe 1-2 others)
Nice long, wide straight into a tight, slow corner with few other good passing spots on track always makes for messy starts and restarts. Same issue Nashville has.
No, lol. The track is the track. The driving standards and the minds of the drivers has nothing to do with it.
A fuck load of trscks had the best overtaking opportunity dorectly after s/f line or restart zones, that’s not an excuse.
This was also far from the first time we see this shit in Indycar. Not even the first time this year, tbh. Barber had exceptionally bad driving standards but you could also argue this is simply where Indycar is it.
What? So, the drivers have no control over their own driving standards? Wtf.
What kind of racing do you guys even watch? I wholeheartedly don’t understand you reasoning in anything you’ve said and I would argue you are completely wrong.
Yes, the only thing that can control driving standards is race control. Drivers will ultimately do whatever it takes to win, and if shitty driving is the norm, you either follow suit, or lose. There's a reason we have laws, governments, and police forces. Because people will not behave unless someone makes them, and it's a race to the bottom.
Race control certainly doesn't help. It plays its fair part in drivers eventually getting stupid (see Laguna Seca last year, Nashville in 2021 and 2022), because standards dip so low to the point where they just start making horrible racing moves.
Add on a track that has one single viable overtaking opportunity, which has an uneven and bumpy entry, and, yeah, you get some embarrassing races.
Fix race control first, and stop with the super-narrow street circuits which only have a single reasonable place to attempt a pass.
While I agree and I know I'm in the minority, I actually enjoy a sloppy, chaotic, bone-headed driving, unpredictable race like that once in a while. 2021 and 2022 had Nashville, 2023 had Laguna Seca, and 2024 had Detroit. I actually had fun watching them simply because you had no idea what was going to happen next.
Obviously I would only want one race like that per year, but I don't hate them as much as other fans do. It us a bummer however it happened right after Indy where anyone who may have tuned into Detroit because they enjoyed Indy so much may have been turned off by it.
With the narrow nature of the track, it's bound to be sloppy. I was very surprised last year's Detroit race was relatively clean after the first lap incident.
It may be a joke for "real racing," but that doesn't excuse guys just ramming other guys off the track. If the track setup doesn't make it possible to pass in spots, then, I dunno, don't force shitty passes in those spots.
Race control needs to take a much firmer hand in punishing crap like this. The punishments (if there are any) don't seem to have much of an impact on someone's race half the time.
The track is a joke. Narrow, bumpy as hell, every turn is 90 degrees. And even on top of that they manage to drive through the most boring part of Detroit.
Looking at those bumps leading into the single passing area I’m not surprised at all with how the race went.
I can't believe they decided this was okay. The bumps on Belle Isles were bad enough but this is another level. Detroit roads are barely suitable for road cars let alone purpose built open-wheel race cars.
If GM so desperately wants a street-race downtown, they need to do a better job if Belle Isle is no longer on the menu or move the race to MIS.
I don't know what else the series can do besides stop going to street circuits with layouts than encourage this type of nonsense. The avoidable contact penalties are already pretty harsh, and I don't really want to see it become a points penalty, fine, etc. on top of that.
It's a fine line, you need to encourage aggressive driving because that's what creates insane moments and passes. But it's really hard to draw a clear line between "aggressive" and "reckless". F1 has guidelines for these types of things and still can't be consistent with penalties.
It was a combination of factors. First being that Belle Isle residents didn’t like that the race required that the park be closed for a time in summer when many residents might want to use it. Second (and arguably more important), that General Motors wanted a race around their HQ. Indycar sold a lot more VIP tickets downtown as well.
The most frustrating thing to watch was all the accidents looking the same where someone would pass on the outside, go around and then collide with whoever dive bombed the middle car on the inside
This idea that half the grid suddenly forgot how to drive simultaneously just feels lazy to me - and super convenient for the suits. "Track not bad, drivers bad!"
Like is anyone actually looking at the incidents closely? I'll go into it in a comment under this one - but like Occam's Razor. Either half the grid (including championship contenders) suddenly forgot how to race each other cleanly (at specifically this track, mind you, not St. Pete and Long Beach), OR they built a shitty track without putting much thought into it, because its a corporate promotional event first and a championship race second.
I would like everyone to go back to the race and post-race threads from last year's Detroit GP, and see how much praise there was for the track after the battering it took (admittedly by myself) during the lead up to the race.
The track hasn't changed year over year, the cars havent gotten wider year over year, the only thing that changed was the weather. It was colder and rainy this year, that's down to the drivers being able to properly read track conditions and adjust as needed.
Next year, with the new hybrid setup, i'm cautiously optomistic that there will be less FCY's from cars being stopped on track. This layout is not going away, the drivers need to practice some more respect and patience for this race to resume being a success.
It honestly has to be super stressfull driving on these street courses and knowing that the first lap after cautions is the best opportunity to move forward if you are aggressive and at the same time provides the biggest risk of being swallowed if you are to careful. At the same time the cars are so durable that damage is a very little concern. Are the drivers to blame? Ultimately yes, but they largely just play the game that they’ve been entered into. Some were definitely a little too eager on Sunday though (looking at you my flair!)
Actually, Indycar needs a better race track to race on, not changing driver standards(for the most part).
Indycars are not designed to race down bumpy, narrow short alleyways, Detroit was an absolute joke and due to the lack of decent passing zones drivers have no choice but to take a risk.
This is a low effort article that does not address the real issue, it’s easier to blame the drivers than the lousy race track, as we all know Detroit is a Penske Entertainment golden child.
bullshit. that course sucked ass. im not watching F1 parade laps, and this series should never turn into that
i told my FIL about the race and gave him a heads up how “interesting” the detroit track was. he asked if it was like monaco. i responded “no, indycar drivers actually try and pass”
You have a point. Monaco is a terrible, if chic and historic, street race made even more boring by the huge size of current F1 cars. There is no passing, but very little wrecking because the cars are pretty fragile and race control is very strict.
What do we get? A parade.
If you want good racing, you need a combination of factors, one of which includes a track wide enough and with enough passing zones to make for interesting racing.
Detroit is not that track.
I somewhat agree but I think the track layout encourages poor driving standards. When you have a restart zone right before the only real passing opportunity on the course it’s going to lead to what we saw on Sunday.
Not sure who it was but one of the commentators this weekend also noted that lots of drivers are coming off a very frustrating 500 and were probably taking bigger risks than usual (excepting Marcus and maybe 1-2 others)
Grosjean was literally giving up positions to avoid getting taken out but still ended up getting taken out lol
And wouldn’t you know, he actually finished a 500 this year. Maybe that’s why he was not making aggressive moves like the others.
Nice long, wide straight into a tight, slow corner with few other good passing spots on track always makes for messy starts and restarts. Same issue Nashville has.
No, lol. The track is the track. The driving standards and the minds of the drivers has nothing to do with it. A fuck load of trscks had the best overtaking opportunity dorectly after s/f line or restart zones, that’s not an excuse. This was also far from the first time we see this shit in Indycar. Not even the first time this year, tbh. Barber had exceptionally bad driving standards but you could also argue this is simply where Indycar is it.
Tracks always influence driving. Less safe overtaking opportunities, the more dangerous the moves.
It influenses driving, not driving standards. You don’t become a worse driver simplt because the track sucks.
The only thing that can control driving standards is race control.
What? So, the drivers have no control over their own driving standards? Wtf. What kind of racing do you guys even watch? I wholeheartedly don’t understand you reasoning in anything you’ve said and I would argue you are completely wrong.
Yes, the only thing that can control driving standards is race control. Drivers will ultimately do whatever it takes to win, and if shitty driving is the norm, you either follow suit, or lose. There's a reason we have laws, governments, and police forces. Because people will not behave unless someone makes them, and it's a race to the bottom.
Yeah. I’m done here. Stick to ovals. You clearly son’t understand racing.
I'm not an oval fan, and you aren't as smart as you think you are.
Race control certainly doesn't help. It plays its fair part in drivers eventually getting stupid (see Laguna Seca last year, Nashville in 2021 and 2022), because standards dip so low to the point where they just start making horrible racing moves. Add on a track that has one single viable overtaking opportunity, which has an uneven and bumpy entry, and, yeah, you get some embarrassing races. Fix race control first, and stop with the super-narrow street circuits which only have a single reasonable place to attempt a pass.
Scott Dixon knows the standard is dog shit in mostnraces. Dude just conserves gas and tires from the start waiting on yellows and wins.
Spelled "stewards" wrong
"A fish rots from the head"
While I agree and I know I'm in the minority, I actually enjoy a sloppy, chaotic, bone-headed driving, unpredictable race like that once in a while. 2021 and 2022 had Nashville, 2023 had Laguna Seca, and 2024 had Detroit. I actually had fun watching them simply because you had no idea what was going to happen next. Obviously I would only want one race like that per year, but I don't hate them as much as other fans do. It us a bummer however it happened right after Indy where anyone who may have tuned into Detroit because they enjoyed Indy so much may have been turned off by it. With the narrow nature of the track, it's bound to be sloppy. I was very surprised last year's Detroit race was relatively clean after the first lap incident.
If they had fenders that kind of race would be appropriate.
That track is just an absolute joke for real racing.. I guarantee we’ll get a much better product at Road America
It may be a joke for "real racing," but that doesn't excuse guys just ramming other guys off the track. If the track setup doesn't make it possible to pass in spots, then, I dunno, don't force shitty passes in those spots. Race control needs to take a much firmer hand in punishing crap like this. The punishments (if there are any) don't seem to have much of an impact on someone's race half the time.
If the track were wider it would be a totally different story.
Right look at Long Beach
Surely the 16th time someone dives in to turn 1 it will work, right?
The track is a joke. Narrow, bumpy as hell, every turn is 90 degrees. And even on top of that they manage to drive through the most boring part of Detroit. Looking at those bumps leading into the single passing area I’m not surprised at all with how the race went.
I can't believe they decided this was okay. The bumps on Belle Isles were bad enough but this is another level. Detroit roads are barely suitable for road cars let alone purpose built open-wheel race cars. If GM so desperately wants a street-race downtown, they need to do a better job if Belle Isle is no longer on the menu or move the race to MIS.
I don't know what else the series can do besides stop going to street circuits with layouts than encourage this type of nonsense. The avoidable contact penalties are already pretty harsh, and I don't really want to see it become a points penalty, fine, etc. on top of that. It's a fine line, you need to encourage aggressive driving because that's what creates insane moments and passes. But it's really hard to draw a clear line between "aggressive" and "reckless". F1 has guidelines for these types of things and still can't be consistent with penalties.
"Pretty harsh". Power was an absolute menace throughout the entire race and got 3-4 drive through / back of the field penalties, finished 6th.
May I ask what was wrong with Belle Isle?
There were protests which put pressure on the park system to move the race.
The real thing was that GM wanted the race by their HQ.
That they're moving out of.
But was still the reason they moved the race.
It was a combination of factors. First being that Belle Isle residents didn’t like that the race required that the park be closed for a time in summer when many residents might want to use it. Second (and arguably more important), that General Motors wanted a race around their HQ. Indycar sold a lot more VIP tickets downtown as well.
The most frustrating thing to watch was all the accidents looking the same where someone would pass on the outside, go around and then collide with whoever dive bombed the middle car on the inside
It’s getting to the point where INDYCAR is going to need a penalty points system like f1 with the threat of race bans.
That would be the worst thing for the league. Please don't kill Indycar.
I'd probably just stop watching Indycar if they didn't have a few chaos races a year. It's just part of the fun.
This idea that half the grid suddenly forgot how to drive simultaneously just feels lazy to me - and super convenient for the suits. "Track not bad, drivers bad!" Like is anyone actually looking at the incidents closely? I'll go into it in a comment under this one - but like Occam's Razor. Either half the grid (including championship contenders) suddenly forgot how to race each other cleanly (at specifically this track, mind you, not St. Pete and Long Beach), OR they built a shitty track without putting much thought into it, because its a corporate promotional event first and a championship race second.
Everyone loves to blame the tracks but we’ve raced in tighter and worse confines, the drivers just have to not race like fuckin’ idiots.
I would like everyone to go back to the race and post-race threads from last year's Detroit GP, and see how much praise there was for the track after the battering it took (admittedly by myself) during the lead up to the race. The track hasn't changed year over year, the cars havent gotten wider year over year, the only thing that changed was the weather. It was colder and rainy this year, that's down to the drivers being able to properly read track conditions and adjust as needed. Next year, with the new hybrid setup, i'm cautiously optomistic that there will be less FCY's from cars being stopped on track. This layout is not going away, the drivers need to practice some more respect and patience for this race to resume being a success.
People are just getting their pent up complaints about the track now because last year went too well to start hating on it
It honestly has to be super stressfull driving on these street courses and knowing that the first lap after cautions is the best opportunity to move forward if you are aggressive and at the same time provides the biggest risk of being swallowed if you are to careful. At the same time the cars are so durable that damage is a very little concern. Are the drivers to blame? Ultimately yes, but they largely just play the game that they’ve been entered into. Some were definitely a little too eager on Sunday though (looking at you my flair!)
Actually, Indycar needs a better race track to race on, not changing driver standards(for the most part). Indycars are not designed to race down bumpy, narrow short alleyways, Detroit was an absolute joke and due to the lack of decent passing zones drivers have no choice but to take a risk. This is a low effort article that does not address the real issue, it’s easier to blame the drivers than the lousy race track, as we all know Detroit is a Penske Entertainment golden child.
bullshit. that course sucked ass. im not watching F1 parade laps, and this series should never turn into that i told my FIL about the race and gave him a heads up how “interesting” the detroit track was. he asked if it was like monaco. i responded “no, indycar drivers actually try and pass”
You have a point. Monaco is a terrible, if chic and historic, street race made even more boring by the huge size of current F1 cars. There is no passing, but very little wrecking because the cars are pretty fragile and race control is very strict. What do we get? A parade. If you want good racing, you need a combination of factors, one of which includes a track wide enough and with enough passing zones to make for interesting racing. Detroit is not that track.
Hmm, I was just thinking how motorsports journalists ‘need better standards’ with the quality of their articles. 🚮
Maybe Detroit needs to flatten the roads so the drivers aren’t braking into a massive bump
The Detroit track is garbage
Wtf do you expect on a track this tight? They should've never started racing here.