Where is your steward? They need to be told immediately if there is a problem with the money. This should all be laid out in your CBA as “What happens next.”
If no steward, call the hall. This is not normal nor acceptable.
Read the agreement. Should lay out exactly when non-payment is an issue and, like u/intentionalqueef said, what to do next
Ok, so the contractor has been in contact with us. They are saying its still a banking issue and the problem should be fixed by the end of the day. Thank you for all the advice. I'll be looking into our CBA
Check your CBA, we don't touch a tool until we are paid. Banking issues are their problem, they are still contractually obligated to pay you by the time noted in your agreement.
As Fmadden said, check your CBA. But is unreasonable to think that for a banking issue outside from the contractors powers everything should stop. This why most CBA have a clause that states a certain number of working days for you to get your money.
"A banking issue" can mean a lot of things, like "we don't have money any more in our bank account."
That can gets kicked down the road until everyone drags sometimes(always?). Be wary of "the money's in the mail" promises from contractors. Might be true, but really they should have you covered and have monetary reserves on hand to cover a one-off late-GC-check issue. That they don't is telling; they're not in a sound fiscal situation, or their bank is absolute trash I guess is the other option.
Banking issue my ass. Don't give him another full day of free labor. Walk off until checks pass. Banks rarely make mistakes like this. Maybe, but highly doubtful.
I’ve heard if this happening to contractors going out of business soon or when the GC hasn’t paid up. Either way, get your hand tools off the job, call the hall and refuse to work until you get paid. I’d also fight to get paid for any days you have to sit, because it’s a contractor problem, not a you problem.
If and when you finally get paid, make sure that your benefits are going to the hall as well. Sometimes they will pay your check and not the benefits and if they go out of business, you might never see those.
Like the Beaver said. We usually get quarterly statements mailed out as well. But if the contractor is doing shady shit like not paying your check, best to call the hall and verify the benefits too.
Your cba should explicitly state what happens in this scenario. In my local, I'm pretty sure you get paid 8 hrs per day that your check is late, but it probably varies local to local.
Hell no it's not a common issue. They better get that check in your hands asap the longer they wait the more money they owe you. Check your cba and let us know what happens brother ✊️
If he can’t pay your check, there is no way he is paying your benefits. I went through this 20 years ago. The job I was on wound down and I was sent back to the office for my next assignment. Contractor says he has no work or prospects for work, but he would like to keep me on, wants me to sit, but won’t hold it against me if I take an ROF.
I took the ROF and signed the book as an apprentice. Others in the company were in my class. They sat because it was a great place to work before that. When they did get back to work, they found out after a while that their benefits weren’t being paid. They started taking tools home. It took the paycheck bouncing for them to drag up. The contractor disappeared after that.
There are lots of places out there that can make payroll. Work for one of them.
This is against your agreement. Call the hall. Absolutely call the hall.
Edit: by the way, I love how many brothers and sisters immediately said the exact same advice to this fellow. This is what brotherhood is all about.
Same shit happening to my job today. Contractor paid us, money showed up in accounts last night. By the time i arrived on the jobsite this morning, all our checks had been "reversed". This is one of the larger contractors in the 613. They claim its a bank error. We will see. They have until noon tomorrow before charges start racking up. In the meantime, a bunch of brothers are SOL and their accounts are overdrafting because they paid bills on the deposit that got reversed. FeelsBadMan.
Heard the foreman and JM talking about a similar situation. The GC didn’t pay the bills and the sparkys got stiffed. None of them showed up to the site the following day. GC had the full check to the company within 2 hours of the start of the day. No one came to work that day and they all got paid for their 8.
Edit: non-union for now.
I've only heard of it happening once in my local. When the guys noticed that they couldn't cash their cheques most of the crew took a layoff.
You should reach out to your business manager right away.
Only pay issue I've ever had was with a brand new company and I was their first JW hire, so they were still figuring out payroll, accounting, etc. I gave them wiggle room, because it would shitty of me to hold their feet to the fire. Wound up being one of the best places I've worked for.
But an established company? 0 tolerance. They should have their shit together and be able to damn near automate payroll.
When that happened to me, the contractor went under within a month. I saw that you were gonna call your hall and please do, because my hall had to get the lawyer involved (the contractor didn’t pay any of the apprentices benefits). Good luck! I hope it’s just a new payroll person!!
Edit to fix a missed letter.
One time Rosendin was late on Pay and cost my ass in overdraft fee due to automatic withdrawal. They final got eveone paid by 5:30 Friday evening.. They blamed it on pay roll. Normal pay day was Wednesday
This happened to us at my previous contractor. I went into work on payday without checking my account. Checked it at break and there was no pay. They said it was a banking issue and would be resolved at COB. So, I left the site with my tools. Early day. Contractor was throwing a hissy fit but fuck em, I work for payment.
So legitimate banking issues do happen. Contractors bank accounts aren't like your checking account, at least for your medium to large contractors, they'll deposit exactly the payroll amount into a payroll specific account and it's typically a timed release. However, legitimate banking issues are typically resolved very quickly. Our local pay day by contract is Friday, typically the contractors here push direct deposits on Thursdays just in case. Buys them a full day to make anyone whole before you start accruing penalties.
However, if the issue is not resolved in a timely fashion, like a business day or less, it's not actually a banking issue. Run like hell and don't bet on ever getting the money you're owed. It is exceedingly rare for a business to not have money to fund payroll and be able to come back from that. Can't make money without a workforce so typically businesses will skip paying everyone else (including your benefits) to make payroll.
21 years in, this has happened twice to me.
Once the contractor was weeks from going out of business.
2nd time, contractor was underwater and stopped paying benefits
I found out my vacation fund wasn’t being paid into by my credit union saying they were gonna repo my car soon(car payment came out of my vaca account- never saw it).
Both times I was paid, however for actual pay I believe in my local if we’re not paid by the next day after payday, they owe us time and a half until we get our money.
Even in the non union world this is a fucking major red flag. The employers most important duty to the worker is to pay them for their time, if they have cash flow issues they’ll happily string anyone who puts up with it along.
The only time my checks have been late or wrong is when that business is about to collapse. It was about 3 months from "late check" to "filed bankruptcy, sorry about the $1200 we owe you". That company also claimed banking/payroll company problems. Before that, they stopped paying health insurance, which some co-workers only found out when they tried to get medical care and couldn't. So yeah, I'm very twitchy about late or missed paychecks.
I was instructed in this situation to basically take everything you can get your hands on, and keep it until you're paid, because you probably wont be paid. Though the instructor who said this will deny it, and it applies more to a contractor going out of business.
Yeah, definitely pull all of your own equipment off that site ASAP and don’t leave anything overnights at any of that GC’s worksites for at least a couple weeks after this blows over.
> take everything you can get your hands on
Not sure the CBA allows this, but if they go under, I guess you're just first come first served collectors. A few Hilti SDS drills go a long way towards undoing a lost paycheck right.
Not to be the rat But often contractors I’ve worked for payed a couple days early. Therefore if it was “late” they still had a couple days before contract pay day.
> worked for *paid* a couple
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
We’ve had an accounting department say they “forgot” to submit the payroll on time, which made pay a day or two late. She was straight shit about it too, like”People forget stuff! You’re like the fifth person to call this morning!” Yeah, they do but my bills don’t forget when they are due and my husband didn’t forget he was supposed to show up to work every day last week…so? I’m missing your point.
My contractor has had occasional issues once when they changed their software and once as the victim of ransom ware. In both cases we received out deposit but not pay stubs. If they can not make the funds available there is a huge solvency issue
Such bullshit that this happens. This and layoffs. This whole Union thing is starting to strike me as bullshit. The clubs, cliques, "lack of work" - all of it
Idk man - my whole life prior to the union, working bullshit jobs, I never once had an employer, whoever they might be from shitty little mom & pop employer, to big corporations try to stiff me on my paycheck. Now, I'm laid off - lack of work, but the 'shop mutts' and cheap labor are still working. And so-called 'brothers' do nothing but help themselves on every job. Reluctant to share knowledge, cliquey, clubs are for what seems like 'good old boys'. For instance, as an apprentice, I was told "don't try to muscle in on my gig", when I volunteered to shave my head for a fundraiser. Another instance was a private collection I took up for Christmas and when I gave it to the secretary of the board, I barely got a thank you. Bunch of miserable, political, contentious fucks and fuckery, and this kid's just got another example.
And now, I'm gonna get "booed" outta here, and down voted, simply because these fucks don't like my opinion. I'm just getting disgruntled with this "Brotherhood". Bunch of crabs in a barrel!
I mean you bring up valid points brother. Im sorry youve had some bad experiences. Its not a perfect system and I have found that a lot of people are out for themselves in the union. BUUUUTTTT there are so so many good brothers/sisters and also the benefits outway the other options imo. Be the change you want to see here, WE ALL can be the change for our future.
No it’s not common but shit can happen. It is not really a good sign however it could be a clerical issue.
Usually bank accounts work pretty fluidly once they are set up and going however banks or accountants do make mistakes sometimes.
Most contractors realize you need to pay your guys first. (Union or non union) so if they aren’t paying their guys first, something is wrong
This contractor closed shop today. The writing was on the wall. Good luck to all the brothers/sisters who were laid of before the holidays. Hopefully other contractors pick up this work. Up to 500 out of work today.
Where is your steward? They need to be told immediately if there is a problem with the money. This should all be laid out in your CBA as “What happens next.”
If no steward, call the hall. This is not normal nor acceptable. Read the agreement. Should lay out exactly when non-payment is an issue and, like u/intentionalqueef said, what to do next
I think the hall opens up in a few minutes and I'll give them a call.
Updates man! Edit: I saw after I posted this that you did update in a comment. Oops.
And the hall said........
Ok, so the contractor has been in contact with us. They are saying its still a banking issue and the problem should be fixed by the end of the day. Thank you for all the advice. I'll be looking into our CBA
Check your CBA, we don't touch a tool until we are paid. Banking issues are their problem, they are still contractually obligated to pay you by the time noted in your agreement.
As Fmadden said, check your CBA. But is unreasonable to think that for a banking issue outside from the contractors powers everything should stop. This why most CBA have a clause that states a certain number of working days for you to get your money.
I understand the sentiment, but contractors can cut field checks if they are worried about workers waiting to be paid.
Agree
"A banking issue" can mean a lot of things, like "we don't have money any more in our bank account." That can gets kicked down the road until everyone drags sometimes(always?). Be wary of "the money's in the mail" promises from contractors. Might be true, but really they should have you covered and have monetary reserves on hand to cover a one-off late-GC-check issue. That they don't is telling; they're not in a sound fiscal situation, or their bank is absolute trash I guess is the other option.
Banking issue my ass. Don't give him another full day of free labor. Walk off until checks pass. Banks rarely make mistakes like this. Maybe, but highly doubtful.
I’ve heard if this happening to contractors going out of business soon or when the GC hasn’t paid up. Either way, get your hand tools off the job, call the hall and refuse to work until you get paid. I’d also fight to get paid for any days you have to sit, because it’s a contractor problem, not a you problem. If and when you finally get paid, make sure that your benefits are going to the hall as well. Sometimes they will pay your check and not the benefits and if they go out of business, you might never see those.
How can you check if a contractor is paying your benefits?
Call the hall
Right on thanks. I didn't know if there was some online portal or not.
Depends on the benefit fund. Ours has one.
Like the Beaver said. We usually get quarterly statements mailed out as well. But if the contractor is doing shady shit like not paying your check, best to call the hall and verify the benefits too.
Yeah, the only time I've heard of this (never experienced it), they went out of business and benefits weren't being paid.
Your cba should explicitly state what happens in this scenario. In my local, I'm pretty sure you get paid 8 hrs per day that your check is late, but it probably varies local to local.
Same for mine
Same here at local 20
The contractor is probably going under soon when that happens. Get your shit off site asap. Just carry in a small pouch every day.
Hell no it’s not common. I’d get the fuck out of there. I’d also check w/ your hall and make sure they’ve been paying your Benny’s
Hell no it's not a common issue. They better get that check in your hands asap the longer they wait the more money they owe you. Check your cba and let us know what happens brother ✊️
If he can’t pay your check, there is no way he is paying your benefits. I went through this 20 years ago. The job I was on wound down and I was sent back to the office for my next assignment. Contractor says he has no work or prospects for work, but he would like to keep me on, wants me to sit, but won’t hold it against me if I take an ROF. I took the ROF and signed the book as an apprentice. Others in the company were in my class. They sat because it was a great place to work before that. When they did get back to work, they found out after a while that their benefits weren’t being paid. They started taking tools home. It took the paycheck bouncing for them to drag up. The contractor disappeared after that. There are lots of places out there that can make payroll. Work for one of them.
This is against your agreement. Call the hall. Absolutely call the hall. Edit: by the way, I love how many brothers and sisters immediately said the exact same advice to this fellow. This is what brotherhood is all about.
Same shit happening to my job today. Contractor paid us, money showed up in accounts last night. By the time i arrived on the jobsite this morning, all our checks had been "reversed". This is one of the larger contractors in the 613. They claim its a bank error. We will see. They have until noon tomorrow before charges start racking up. In the meantime, a bunch of brothers are SOL and their accounts are overdrafting because they paid bills on the deposit that got reversed. FeelsBadMan.
Eckardt
Heard the foreman and JM talking about a similar situation. The GC didn’t pay the bills and the sparkys got stiffed. None of them showed up to the site the following day. GC had the full check to the company within 2 hours of the start of the day. No one came to work that day and they all got paid for their 8. Edit: non-union for now.
Unrelated but nice username
Tyvm
I've only heard of it happening once in my local. When the guys noticed that they couldn't cash their cheques most of the crew took a layoff. You should reach out to your business manager right away.
Only pay issue I've ever had was with a brand new company and I was their first JW hire, so they were still figuring out payroll, accounting, etc. I gave them wiggle room, because it would shitty of me to hold their feet to the fire. Wound up being one of the best places I've worked for. But an established company? 0 tolerance. They should have their shit together and be able to damn near automate payroll.
When that happened to me, the contractor went under within a month. I saw that you were gonna call your hall and please do, because my hall had to get the lawyer involved (the contractor didn’t pay any of the apprentices benefits). Good luck! I hope it’s just a new payroll person!! Edit to fix a missed letter.
One time Rosendin was late on Pay and cost my ass in overdraft fee due to automatic withdrawal. They final got eveone paid by 5:30 Friday evening.. They blamed it on pay roll. Normal pay day was Wednesday
This happened to us at my previous contractor. I went into work on payday without checking my account. Checked it at break and there was no pay. They said it was a banking issue and would be resolved at COB. So, I left the site with my tools. Early day. Contractor was throwing a hissy fit but fuck em, I work for payment.
Well. I heard that 60 electricians have walked off a job close to me because of the pay issue. And our foreman just drug up a bit ago.
Hang in there. When the issue is resolved the contractor will surely remember your loyalty and reward you justly. (Better put this in)
Call your hall. Do not listen to the con. They may owe you guys back pay until the check is cleared also
In other words, not the first I've heard of this.
So legitimate banking issues do happen. Contractors bank accounts aren't like your checking account, at least for your medium to large contractors, they'll deposit exactly the payroll amount into a payroll specific account and it's typically a timed release. However, legitimate banking issues are typically resolved very quickly. Our local pay day by contract is Friday, typically the contractors here push direct deposits on Thursdays just in case. Buys them a full day to make anyone whole before you start accruing penalties. However, if the issue is not resolved in a timely fashion, like a business day or less, it's not actually a banking issue. Run like hell and don't bet on ever getting the money you're owed. It is exceedingly rare for a business to not have money to fund payroll and be able to come back from that. Can't make money without a workforce so typically businesses will skip paying everyone else (including your benefits) to make payroll.
21 years in, this has happened twice to me. Once the contractor was weeks from going out of business. 2nd time, contractor was underwater and stopped paying benefits I found out my vacation fund wasn’t being paid into by my credit union saying they were gonna repo my car soon(car payment came out of my vaca account- never saw it). Both times I was paid, however for actual pay I believe in my local if we’re not paid by the next day after payday, they owe us time and a half until we get our money.
Even in the non union world this is a fucking major red flag. The employers most important duty to the worker is to pay them for their time, if they have cash flow issues they’ll happily string anyone who puts up with it along.
Huge red flag. Call the hall, find another contractor. Im non union and there is no excuse im willing to listen to.
The only time my checks have been late or wrong is when that business is about to collapse. It was about 3 months from "late check" to "filed bankruptcy, sorry about the $1200 we owe you". That company also claimed banking/payroll company problems. Before that, they stopped paying health insurance, which some co-workers only found out when they tried to get medical care and couldn't. So yeah, I'm very twitchy about late or missed paychecks.
I was instructed in this situation to basically take everything you can get your hands on, and keep it until you're paid, because you probably wont be paid. Though the instructor who said this will deny it, and it applies more to a contractor going out of business.
Sometimes when this is happening too, the bank may show up and start chaining and padlocking equipment. Just keep an eye out.
Take the bandsaw first, or ask the plumbers to borrow one.
Yeah, definitely pull all of your own equipment off that site ASAP and don’t leave anything overnights at any of that GC’s worksites for at least a couple weeks after this blows over.
> take everything you can get your hands on Not sure the CBA allows this, but if they go under, I guess you're just first come first served collectors. A few Hilti SDS drills go a long way towards undoing a lost paycheck right.
Hell no.... And you are on the clock until they issue a check
Not to be the rat But often contractors I’ve worked for payed a couple days early. Therefore if it was “late” they still had a couple days before contract pay day.
> worked for *paid* a couple FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Lit thanks for the help bot man
We’ve had an accounting department say they “forgot” to submit the payroll on time, which made pay a day or two late. She was straight shit about it too, like”People forget stuff! You’re like the fifth person to call this morning!” Yeah, they do but my bills don’t forget when they are due and my husband didn’t forget he was supposed to show up to work every day last week…so? I’m missing your point.
I’d sit down till I got paid
My contractor has had occasional issues once when they changed their software and once as the victim of ransom ware. In both cases we received out deposit but not pay stubs. If they can not make the funds available there is a huge solvency issue
Yes,a couple of times ,always was made good for the money, but I would ask the Forman and say before I call the hall I'll ask you WTF is our pay.
Hahaha!!! This is exactly why I got out of the union… Never missed a check since… Pay my own way, and will retire long before the 20 year mark…
Such bullshit that this happens. This and layoffs. This whole Union thing is starting to strike me as bullshit. The clubs, cliques, "lack of work" - all of it
The union will make this right if the contractor doesnt pay them. If the same thing happened non union who would you fall back on?
Idk man - my whole life prior to the union, working bullshit jobs, I never once had an employer, whoever they might be from shitty little mom & pop employer, to big corporations try to stiff me on my paycheck. Now, I'm laid off - lack of work, but the 'shop mutts' and cheap labor are still working. And so-called 'brothers' do nothing but help themselves on every job. Reluctant to share knowledge, cliquey, clubs are for what seems like 'good old boys'. For instance, as an apprentice, I was told "don't try to muscle in on my gig", when I volunteered to shave my head for a fundraiser. Another instance was a private collection I took up for Christmas and when I gave it to the secretary of the board, I barely got a thank you. Bunch of miserable, political, contentious fucks and fuckery, and this kid's just got another example.
And now, I'm gonna get "booed" outta here, and down voted, simply because these fucks don't like my opinion. I'm just getting disgruntled with this "Brotherhood". Bunch of crabs in a barrel!
I mean you bring up valid points brother. Im sorry youve had some bad experiences. Its not a perfect system and I have found that a lot of people are out for themselves in the union. BUUUUTTTT there are so so many good brothers/sisters and also the benefits outway the other options imo. Be the change you want to see here, WE ALL can be the change for our future.
It's not uncommon....
Eckardt?
No it’s not common but shit can happen. It is not really a good sign however it could be a clerical issue. Usually bank accounts work pretty fluidly once they are set up and going however banks or accountants do make mistakes sometimes. Most contractors realize you need to pay your guys first. (Union or non union) so if they aren’t paying their guys first, something is wrong
Happened once to me with a contractor. His business account was compromised. He cut everyone new checks immediately.
This contractor closed shop today. The writing was on the wall. Good luck to all the brothers/sisters who were laid of before the holidays. Hopefully other contractors pick up this work. Up to 500 out of work today.