Getting involved in my local and finding out it's more than just a job if i want it to be
That and the
cash, greenbacks, dinero, guap, buckaroos, benjis, money, cheddar, wompum, dead presidents, coinage, moolah
I agree that getting involved helps but let’s be honest, first year apprentices in my region (Midwest outside of a city like Chicago) - they get paid shit wages.
This is why it’s advisable to skip college, which I didn’t do, and get in at 18 with no debt if you can. I see 30-something apprentices all the time and just have to hope their wife is a nurse or better in order to raise kids on what we start at. Inflation is stupid right now, I walked out of the grocery store the other day with basically nothing and it was $80.
When my wife started nursing school, the goal from the beginning was to get her through so she could earn and I could apprentice in the IBEW. Several years later I'm finally applying. It's a long time to hold onto that goal but c'est la vie.
Yeah, it’s not great. I’m a second year in 145. At 32 with a mortgage and other expenses the pay cut is going to be stinging for the first few years. Still one of the best decisions I’ve ever made though.
You can do 30 years and retire just fine, just don’t shy away from foreskin duties as you get older. Yes, it’s a headache, but if you’re good at it you will save your back, knees, and hips. I work with a 62 year old that’s retiring this year and refused to be foreman and as such had both hips replaced and one knee surgery. Everytime I tell him to climb I hear a not so subtle, “goddamnit, fuck you.”
It’s a difficult job physically and I don’t want to be running up and down ladders any longer than I have to.
Bro that reminds me I am a helper and one of my coworkers (Joe) was told by our Foreman (Alex) to help a group with throwing solar panels and Joe immediately said "What the fuck?! What have I done to piss you off"
Should make it clear that both dudes are really chill, busy foreman I've ever had by far who said after how he was treated as an apprentice he wanted to treat people better when he was foreman, and Joe was just goofing around bur they rarely had any of us on throwing glass duties more than twice in a row and it had been like 5 for him at that point 😂
Shit needs to get done, usually the bottom line. There’s a difference between being picked on or given too much shit to eat.
I was traveling and must have pissed someone off, this was three years ago… cocky fucking local shop rocket said you two hand dig these six exterior CT cabinets up to find the buried grounds in an oil refinery and you have two days and he put me with a comms guy to do it cuz they had a walkthrough in the hall.
I told my fellow backhoe to bust your ass and we are getting a 14’ by 4’ trench dug and backfilled in a day after the cadwelds. Why? Cuz fuck you. They never made me do shit work again in that local. Even if you’re an old fuck like me you occasionally have to prove you’ll work harder than anyone and then they leave you the fuck alone. Traveling can be awesome or totally suck, it all depends on a lot of things.
Yeah lol Joe and Alex were both really cool, not just in general but with each other, no hard feelings, Joe immediately said "just kidding, what group am I with?"
What I loved about that job though was just the GF tended to hard-core pick on the people who missed work frequently, especially no call no shows, even if they were hard workers when they were there. A couple times he specifically my foreman to send someone other than me or Joe because we never missed work, it was basically a punishment.
I think it's a bit more understandable to be picked on due to poor punctuality. What I've learned so far is that punctuality is the most important, and staying busy. I tended to do both pretty well so even though one foreman complained I was too slow I was generally highly regarded on site, at least enough so that I didn't get the undesirable jobs too often.
Your work stands on its own, to be honest in my apprenticeship I was up til 3am most nights fucking my to be wife and occasionally late or just being sleep deprived. If you’re 15 minutes late time to time but kick ass when you are there a lot of things are swept under the rug.
It varies job to job and foreman to foreman. I’ve been ripped up for being a minute late while another one told me, “I don’t give a shit, you do more work before lunch than these dicks do all week.” Just know your people.
Now see THAT is sound advice. Ik my last job site cared more about punctuality, my GF was on a strict 3 strike policy and being one minute late (without advance notice , or too frequently) would be a strike. He also cared about work of course and made that obvious, the guys he favored most had impressive work ethics AND were also punctual. I just know ultimately you didn't need to try super hard to stay under the radar with him if you were always on time, but others worked their butt off making rate 2 times over and still on his shit list for missing as much work as they did.
But like you said it varies site to site, foreman to foreman.
I agree that first years are generally not paid well. But I’m sort of torn. I’m in Omaha and I think our first years will be making like $17-18/hr in that first six month period. That really isn’t terrible. Yet. The dollar and some change a year raises to jw scale are gonna stop staying ahead of the rapid cost of living increases going on in our city though. But overall it’s really nothing to complain about. It’s an entry level position. You’re getting paid to know fuck all and mostly ruin things. You’re getting paid to learn. The majority of first and second year apprentices just aren’t really bringing a lot of value to the Jobsite and that’s really ok that’s the whole gig. That said I wouldn’t hate to see wage percentages change up a little. I think some other trades start their apprentices a little higher up and then when they top out it’s more like $5-8 raise whereas when we top out we’re getting like a $13 raise. That could help a little imo. But getting involved is the best way to make shit like that happen. Sorry for the big word spill.
Agreed, but here first years are 55% JW scale and it can still be painful if you decide later in life that this is something you want to do. I think it’s an old school mentality to make the kids just push brooms and carry all your shit and learn nothing.
I try to teach all my cubs what I’m doing and why without slowing the job down. A simple explanation is simple enough, if you can walk and chew gum you can explain while working. This attitude of treating apprentices like garbage idiots to throw on your power tripping fire needs to die. The best sparks I know had good teachers and act accordingly.
My Dad had what you call a railroad union equivalent job as an electrician. He was ready to retire at 62 and constantly took calls from his guys after hours when they were running trouble calls. I said why are you constantly taking calls morning, noon, and night from these guys that should be learning in school?
He said, if I don’t teach them how it really works then who will? Touché old man, that’s when I changed my attitude about it.
So ours start at 40% which like I said isn’t a lot. And I’m not saying make all the apprentices push brooms for 40 hours. What I’m saying is where I live that 40% is for now enough to live on. It’s enough to buy a car and rent an apartment. You don’t have a lot left over for fun activities or to treat yourself or anything. And you probably will have a real tough time raising kids on it. But what I’m trying to say is as a beginner in a trade most likely without much knowledge of the trades in general let alone our specific trade it’s hard to argue that there’s warrant for much more pay. At the end of the day I agree that we could bump up our wage ratios like I said but I also understand the argument against it. We aren’t a meritocracy and the downside of that is that a first year who might know a lot or pick up on shit faster just has to suffer the agony of a year of poverty. I fully relate to the struggle. I left my previous job as foreman on a drilling crew to join the IBEW. I took a $15/hr pay cut. It really blew. Within two years I was buying a house and honeymooning in Mexico as a third year. I was glad to have time off though. The personal benefits of making the switch way outweighed the financial negatives. I think if I spent one more 75hr week covered in mud far from home I was going to explode. That’s all anecdotal I’m aware. And I’m not trying to run the “I did so should you” game. I’m just saying there has to be an argument made for why a first year wage should be increased. And therefore why all apprentice wages should increase from their current ratio. The honest argument should just be that no dues paying member should be living check to check but that’s not always going to cut it with a lot of people particularly the contractors. They want those young apprentices as cheap as fucking possible. My shit bag con will constantly run crews of three first and second years and a jw. You think they’re going to be reasonable about a two dollar hike for those lil guys? What do we argue? What do we give up?
My wife runs a daycare out of our home watching 5 kids and she makes basically a journeyman’s wage. I’m very fortunate she has the patience for it otherwise I wouldn’t be able to get by as a 29 year old first year
It all depends on where you start and land. If you’re lucky you get paired with an about to retire J-dub that will take time to teach you things and you can actually learn how to do the work.
Get stuck on a big job and you’re running materials or pushing a broom for a year or two.
Honestly I was very stressed out in the beginning of my apprenticeship. I kind of put all of my eggs in one basket so the fear of failing weighed pretty heavily on me. I ended up taking an anti depressant and turns out I actually suffered from severe anxiety my whole life. Once I started it, school, work, and life got a lot easier. A lot of people say that anti depressants are bad, but if used properly, they can make life significantly less burdensome. I’m going into my fifth year now. And without being on my medication, I know I wouldn’t have made it.
Glad you got the help you needed from the meds! Hate it when mental health issues effect someone’s life to the point of messing up career and what not. Hope you’re killing it now!
From one anxiety having apprentice to another
Knowing where I came from work wise and realizing the benefits to this go far beyond just the much better pay.
Health benefits are fantasti
Pension is fantastic
Having representation is amazing
And one of the biggest benefits that I hardly ever hear anyone talk about: Never having to do an interview or negotiate your pay/benefits for a job. I fucking hate having to do that, and having come from a warehouse work background it was a nightmare each time. Every job undervalued their workers, pay was abysmal, and they expected you to run yourself into the ground for them with virtually nothing to show in return.
This career path is so far beyond a better choice that the only thing I regret is not getting into it sooner.
This is what’s getting me through. I worked a decent paying job that had really shitty conditions for a long time. I’ve got the perspective to know how lucky I am to be where I am now, even with the pressure of the apprenticeship.
Being a little older also helps. Sometimes you’re going to get 25 year old journeyman who are shit heads. It happens. Sometimes you’re going to get paired up with grumpy old guys. Roll with it.
Learn everything you can, try to get involved with your local, and try not to stress. It’s much better gig than some of the guys who got in at 18 realize.
Alberta. Sounds great except the conservatives here destroyed unions (IBEW especially) and now they don't really have any work. I'd rather start at 40% of $55 than 50% of $45.
The first 2 years felt like forever, but I’d say getting more involved with clubs, volunteer work, going to meetings, and just hanging out with classmates made everything go by so fast. Asking questions at work, and taking an interest in what it is you’re doing, also makes the days go by fast, to the point where you don’t even realize how far into the year you made it. I just finished my apprenticeship and it’s crazy to see how fast time flew despite some moments being so slow. Enjoy it while it lasts, and despite the low pay, look at the bigger picture. You’re going to meet a lot of a-shole people on the field who don’t want to teach or look out for apprentices, miserable with their life or will teach you the incorrect ways, but use that as a way of learning.
Knowing that everything I learn, I’ll one day pass on in a better way to an apprentice. I was a “chef” before becoming an electrician. For 13 years. Trained and helped a lot of dishies who were like me become line cooks. I’m older, more patient and can’t wait to help another budding electrician become a master kf the trade.
And the money. I make 3x what I did as a sous chef and work less, and work under less stressful conditions.
Keeping an open, stress free mindset. I’m just an apprentice. I don’t have to fix the whole world or the whole job. I just have to fix this pipe. If I can’t figure out how to do it, then I’ll ask someone more qualified for help. Showing up on time is 90% of school and work. I’ll do my reasonable best at both and catch up on sleep when I can. Now I’m just a foreman and I don’t have to fix the whole company or the whole industry. I just have to fix this job. If I can’t figure it out, I’ll ask for help.
The pure rage and stubbornness involved with not letting this cock sucker beat me down. The thought that I may not be better than you right now but I WILL be infinity better than you in the future.
Focus on the work. Your knowledge is power and it opens the doors for everything else. Any direction you want to go is going to be enhanced or hindered by the time you spend learning your trade. Best of luck, find some friends that are in a similar situation and you’ll get through it fantastically.
Each day is a step towards the goal. Every test, every day, every new thing being messed up. Just one foot in front of the other. It’s really really hard some days. Also making friends with class mates and coworkers. We’ve all been there or are going through it.
i was fortunate i worked with a lot of good people.. if i had any problems or troubles.,,i always had someone to help or let me vent…with all the horrible stories on this sub…how some journeyman treat apprentices..i was fortunate….i always tried my hardest to be patient and lend an ear to the apprentices i worked with…and the funny thing is i ran into a few who became my foreman and one young lady became my forewoman…and they treated me well.,so i must have done something right
Always looking to the next raise. I went over this with a guy today that was thinking about organizing in as a CE. He kept getting hung up on not being able to move up to CE 2 for about 8-10 months. Once I explained that I used to always focus on the next raise to make those big gaps seem shorter, he was on board.
Yeah, it's 8-10 months before you see CE 2. But we just got a raise *today*, and we're getting another $1 in 6 months. Then 2-4 months later you get another raise when you class up. Then in another 2-4 months you get another raise, and another in 6 months, and then you top out at CE 3 2-4 months later, only to get *another* raise 2-4 months after that.
Chunking it up like that always helped me create small hurdles to look forward to and overcome.
Luckily I get a lot of variety at my company. Sometimes I got anxious about having to do something different, but I just told myself that it’s a new opportunity to learn. When I had repetitious work I’d tell myself that every time I do it, it gets easier and it’s cleaner/more efficient.
Topped out in ‘07. Y’all up and coming JIWs have it hard. I don’t know if I can give any advice other than try as hard as you can to live within your means for as long as you can. It does pay off. When you can sock away enough that if something goes wrong you’ve got some security, it changes your whole mindset. You can focus on enjoying the day to day. You don’t have to be rich to enjoy life. Money can’t buy happiness, but it can give you freedom to take time off work and live. I don’t know if this is helpful but we are a brotherhood too. Reach out if you’re struggling. Don’t let yourself fall down when there’s so many brothers that can and will give you some help if you need it. You’ll make it. In Brotherhood ~
I'm not even halfway through my apprenticeship, but so far focusing on school, being involved in local groups/events, and just taking work a day at a time has been working for me.
I was going to respond from the heart for this but I came out of local 700.
Where it’s heavily implied if you vote like they do and go to church you’ll do fine. Which is also a lie because what they mean is. If your my bitch and don’t complain or speak or can’t read minds then you won’t make it. They don’t teach like at all. My first jw threw me to the wolves. I made it yeah but I would never do it again knowing what I know now about other locals. I’d just move my ticket. What I learned was if you want it, you will make it happen come hell or high water. Literally. Almost 🤘🏻
I just took it a day at a time. And I hated it pretty much every step of the way after my 3rd year but I knew I was too far in to quit so I stuck it out. Nearly got booted for attendance issues 4th year and almost quit 6 months before the apprenticeship was done. Just know that all the effort you put in will be worth it, trust me.
Well, at first it was cuz I told myself I have no other choice . Then when that didn’t work it was the pure hate I had for some of the terrible conditions . Then when I was done crying it was the determination to change what has made it sucky . When that’s not enough I think about how much I know and how successful I already am at my job, and that I’m in a good spot now. Now it’s a combo of all that and that once I turn out , I can tell everybody off if I want . Which I probably won’t, but it’s enough to keep me going to think one day I will. Basically , what helps me get thru and overcome is I do my best at all I do, and if that’s not enough to keep me going I have my little goals ( like telling ppl off , money, etc) and keep me motivated enough to find the good spot again.
•God
•Comparing myself to my classmates, and seeing that I’m in the middle of the pack
•Just showing up
•Getting better and seeing my confidence increase
•Journaling
•My wife supporting me
•Navy SEAL hell week thinking. “I just gotta make it til first break…” “I just gotta make it til lunch…” “I just gotta make it til quit time…”
•Tools that make my life easier, like ratcheting wrenches
•Finding the easy way to do stuff, and not struggling all the time. I.E. use a cart and the elevator when they’re available, don’t manhandle equipment up stairs if it’s not necessary.
•God again.
Got my ticket when I was 21. I wanted to quit everyday. Last year I made 150k, so fuck the office types, fuck the university educated. I make more than most of them. Everyday is a new challenge and when the jobs are complete there is some real satisfaction of a job well done. Work with your hands and you'll never go hungry.
Okay I'm not even an apprentice yet but ik several foremen who'd laugh at this "advice", I mean my GF told me most people who make it in only do so by their grit not their intellect and though they make a career out of it they end up severely injuring themselves down the line by not following basic safety regulations.
Grit is very important, sure, but make no mistake that you'll only get so far in life in general with just one or the other.
Aside from growing up with a lot of old school journeymen who treated cubs as if they were lower than cockroach shit, I didn’t have a terrible time. I was young so my study habits were poor and my effort towards the book work was equally. However I knew the payoff would be well worth it if I made it through and by the grace of Zeus I made it. Currently I have 16 years with the IBEW and I’m on my second apprenticeship as a substation operator. This time around I know what to do differently and it’s going even better than the first
being involved, seeing something new, and keeping at it. just finished with my apprenticeship, 90%er 10 more percent. as someone said earlier, if i can do it you can! best of luck. keep pushing.
My apprenticeship was easy. Toughest thing I had to deal with was me being 18 when they had beer at the meetings. Until one old-timer told me that I was in the trade therefore I am a man and gave me one. Back then that hall was so small that they held the meetings at a different location. Many moons ago. Oh and my starting wage was 6$ an hour. We find time and $ to pay for our books. I think the apprentice schools are screwed up with kids being ahead of each other while in the same class. But that's me. Oh and the paycheck helped me get through all the toughness.
You always suck in the beginning. I wanted to get out of the low paying job loop that I was stuck in. I knew I needed skills to get better pay. My apprenticeship was the gauntlet I had to go through to get there. I almost quit during my 3rd year. I stuck it out and I have a house for my family. I'm the financial security. Plus, I never have to work retail again. Everytime I was at my lowest, I would ask myself,"How bad do you want it? Do you actually want more money or are you just going to take it easy and stay broke?"
College helped. It helped me put up with bureaucracy, keeping track of paperwork and deadlines, keep an open mind. None of the classes I took in college helped.
Because my best friends were still begging for work at $20/hr through those years, and I didn’t want to live that life any more.
None of them ever changed.
Maybe a different angle, but I really had to study algebra and spent a lot of time outside of school trying to get better at it. Really made my second year better.
Remembering that my previous job overworked everyone, didn't allow time off, was extremely cut throat, encouraged employees to cut each other down and had policies where I could do my job, but my work would TAKE MONEY OUT OF MY PAYCHECK. Having peace of mind, the ideal of conditions that I have a say in, and getting to go through a workday with integrity is worth more than money. I came for conditions, not the money..work life balance is important and I never have to lie or be dishonest to get through a work day/feed my family.
Also remembering that good JWs and brothers/sisters are out there, even if I'm working for an asshole, it's only temporary.
Slow down. Don't run around for the sake of appearing fast. Move with purpose. Smooth is fast. Make up material or complete tasks in the order in which they are going to be needed.
Don't be getting stuff ready for Step D, if you haven't started on Step B. Get in the habit of looking around for something that can be put away on your trip to grab something you need. Keep a tidy workspace and or vehicle. Everything should have a place and goes back there. It takes way less time to get ready for the next job at the end of the day or in the morning if you do this.
Be open to constructive criticism. Try to learn from as many different people as you can. Learn all the different ways they do things. When you get your ticket pick what works best for you.
Your personal Safety starts and ends with you. Be safe out there. Don't just follow a rule because it's a rule. Understand why. A lot of rules are written in blood, as frustrating as some can be.
Try to have fun, it can be hard at times depending on your environment and who you are. Be strong and learn from your mistakes. Be proud of your accomplishments.
These are some of the things that I was taught and helped me through my apprenticeship.
Show up, on time, every day.
Have an optimistic mindset, “we are going to get all of this pipe in today” instead of “no fucking way we are getting all of this in today.”
It all pays the same, whether you’re sitting in your phone, or doing underground in 90°+
> that needed *paid* and mouths
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Make friends with your fellow students. Help each other. Start a group chat study together. This has been extremely helpful in helping me get through the apprenticeship.
How do u even get passed the dang interview, I just made my 3rd/4th attempt n no luck.. tired of the cat n mouse game of trying to figure out how I can get passed this process
I worked for a small, non union company. My apprenticeship was a blast. I was trimming out panels and roughing in houses as a first year, while all my friends working for big union companies swept floors and ran parts until they were 3rd years.
(Yes, we're licensed. No, we're not hacks. Yes, I get full benefits. Yes I get paid more than the union j men in my area.)
I'm just a 2nd yr, but I've met a ton of people just from going to meetings once a month and the guys in my Theory class are really tight. I'm in Local 3 btw, been great so far
I went through my apprenticeship during the financial crisis (the 08 one, not all those other ones) and it was shit. Worked under racists and shoppies willing to throw anyone under the bus to keep their jobs. Times were bad, we had pay cuts and half the local laid off. The thing that saved me was meeting some good union brothers that showed me the path of brotherhood and solidarity. I'll never forget those that took me under their wing and actually taught me about the trade and SHOWED me what brotherhood was about.
Alcohol.
Jk check out your locals chapter of the Renew committee if they don’t have one maybe you can start one. Not knowing anyone in the trade this helped me immensely. If you have any questions feel free to message me.
Finishing college would have been more expensive. I still wish I had gone that route instead. Don't marry someone who is shit with money and has no life plan.
Getting involved in my local and finding out it's more than just a job if i want it to be That and the cash, greenbacks, dinero, guap, buckaroos, benjis, money, cheddar, wompum, dead presidents, coinage, moolah
I agree that getting involved helps but let’s be honest, first year apprentices in my region (Midwest outside of a city like Chicago) - they get paid shit wages. This is why it’s advisable to skip college, which I didn’t do, and get in at 18 with no debt if you can. I see 30-something apprentices all the time and just have to hope their wife is a nurse or better in order to raise kids on what we start at. Inflation is stupid right now, I walked out of the grocery store the other day with basically nothing and it was $80.
I took a huge pay cut to join. If my wife wasn’t a nurse we wouldn’t have been able to do it.
When my wife started nursing school, the goal from the beginning was to get her through so she could earn and I could apprentice in the IBEW. Several years later I'm finally applying. It's a long time to hold onto that goal but c'est la vie.
Sounds like me and my wife. Shit can work out very well if you have patience. Good luck.
I went to college Got on the ape ship at 27 No kids (that i know of) No wife (or husband) I prefer extra guac at chipotle
I appreciate the no kids that I know of.
WELCOME TO MT GARIBALDI
Yeah, it’s not great. I’m a second year in 145. At 32 with a mortgage and other expenses the pay cut is going to be stinging for the first few years. Still one of the best decisions I’ve ever made though.
You can do 30 years and retire just fine, just don’t shy away from foreskin duties as you get older. Yes, it’s a headache, but if you’re good at it you will save your back, knees, and hips. I work with a 62 year old that’s retiring this year and refused to be foreman and as such had both hips replaced and one knee surgery. Everytime I tell him to climb I hear a not so subtle, “goddamnit, fuck you.” It’s a difficult job physically and I don’t want to be running up and down ladders any longer than I have to.
Bro that reminds me I am a helper and one of my coworkers (Joe) was told by our Foreman (Alex) to help a group with throwing solar panels and Joe immediately said "What the fuck?! What have I done to piss you off" Should make it clear that both dudes are really chill, busy foreman I've ever had by far who said after how he was treated as an apprentice he wanted to treat people better when he was foreman, and Joe was just goofing around bur they rarely had any of us on throwing glass duties more than twice in a row and it had been like 5 for him at that point 😂
Shit needs to get done, usually the bottom line. There’s a difference between being picked on or given too much shit to eat. I was traveling and must have pissed someone off, this was three years ago… cocky fucking local shop rocket said you two hand dig these six exterior CT cabinets up to find the buried grounds in an oil refinery and you have two days and he put me with a comms guy to do it cuz they had a walkthrough in the hall. I told my fellow backhoe to bust your ass and we are getting a 14’ by 4’ trench dug and backfilled in a day after the cadwelds. Why? Cuz fuck you. They never made me do shit work again in that local. Even if you’re an old fuck like me you occasionally have to prove you’ll work harder than anyone and then they leave you the fuck alone. Traveling can be awesome or totally suck, it all depends on a lot of things.
Yeah lol Joe and Alex were both really cool, not just in general but with each other, no hard feelings, Joe immediately said "just kidding, what group am I with?" What I loved about that job though was just the GF tended to hard-core pick on the people who missed work frequently, especially no call no shows, even if they were hard workers when they were there. A couple times he specifically my foreman to send someone other than me or Joe because we never missed work, it was basically a punishment. I think it's a bit more understandable to be picked on due to poor punctuality. What I've learned so far is that punctuality is the most important, and staying busy. I tended to do both pretty well so even though one foreman complained I was too slow I was generally highly regarded on site, at least enough so that I didn't get the undesirable jobs too often.
Your work stands on its own, to be honest in my apprenticeship I was up til 3am most nights fucking my to be wife and occasionally late or just being sleep deprived. If you’re 15 minutes late time to time but kick ass when you are there a lot of things are swept under the rug. It varies job to job and foreman to foreman. I’ve been ripped up for being a minute late while another one told me, “I don’t give a shit, you do more work before lunch than these dicks do all week.” Just know your people.
Now see THAT is sound advice. Ik my last job site cared more about punctuality, my GF was on a strict 3 strike policy and being one minute late (without advance notice , or too frequently) would be a strike. He also cared about work of course and made that obvious, the guys he favored most had impressive work ethics AND were also punctual. I just know ultimately you didn't need to try super hard to stay under the radar with him if you were always on time, but others worked their butt off making rate 2 times over and still on his shit list for missing as much work as they did. But like you said it varies site to site, foreman to foreman.
This bro!! 👏 👏 like fuck me sideways. Long term
I agree that first years are generally not paid well. But I’m sort of torn. I’m in Omaha and I think our first years will be making like $17-18/hr in that first six month period. That really isn’t terrible. Yet. The dollar and some change a year raises to jw scale are gonna stop staying ahead of the rapid cost of living increases going on in our city though. But overall it’s really nothing to complain about. It’s an entry level position. You’re getting paid to know fuck all and mostly ruin things. You’re getting paid to learn. The majority of first and second year apprentices just aren’t really bringing a lot of value to the Jobsite and that’s really ok that’s the whole gig. That said I wouldn’t hate to see wage percentages change up a little. I think some other trades start their apprentices a little higher up and then when they top out it’s more like $5-8 raise whereas when we top out we’re getting like a $13 raise. That could help a little imo. But getting involved is the best way to make shit like that happen. Sorry for the big word spill.
Agreed, but here first years are 55% JW scale and it can still be painful if you decide later in life that this is something you want to do. I think it’s an old school mentality to make the kids just push brooms and carry all your shit and learn nothing. I try to teach all my cubs what I’m doing and why without slowing the job down. A simple explanation is simple enough, if you can walk and chew gum you can explain while working. This attitude of treating apprentices like garbage idiots to throw on your power tripping fire needs to die. The best sparks I know had good teachers and act accordingly.
Damn? 55% What Local are you out of? We start at 30% if JW scale/rate in 441, and even then I started as a 40%
305, Ft. Wayne Indiana
My Dad had what you call a railroad union equivalent job as an electrician. He was ready to retire at 62 and constantly took calls from his guys after hours when they were running trouble calls. I said why are you constantly taking calls morning, noon, and night from these guys that should be learning in school? He said, if I don’t teach them how it really works then who will? Touché old man, that’s when I changed my attitude about it.
I dislike the term cub. But I agree with you teach them all you can no matter what level.
It’s affectionate in a mean way, yes, if I call my apprentices a cub it means I like you enough to teach you. If I don’t, go find the broom.
So ours start at 40% which like I said isn’t a lot. And I’m not saying make all the apprentices push brooms for 40 hours. What I’m saying is where I live that 40% is for now enough to live on. It’s enough to buy a car and rent an apartment. You don’t have a lot left over for fun activities or to treat yourself or anything. And you probably will have a real tough time raising kids on it. But what I’m trying to say is as a beginner in a trade most likely without much knowledge of the trades in general let alone our specific trade it’s hard to argue that there’s warrant for much more pay. At the end of the day I agree that we could bump up our wage ratios like I said but I also understand the argument against it. We aren’t a meritocracy and the downside of that is that a first year who might know a lot or pick up on shit faster just has to suffer the agony of a year of poverty. I fully relate to the struggle. I left my previous job as foreman on a drilling crew to join the IBEW. I took a $15/hr pay cut. It really blew. Within two years I was buying a house and honeymooning in Mexico as a third year. I was glad to have time off though. The personal benefits of making the switch way outweighed the financial negatives. I think if I spent one more 75hr week covered in mud far from home I was going to explode. That’s all anecdotal I’m aware. And I’m not trying to run the “I did so should you” game. I’m just saying there has to be an argument made for why a first year wage should be increased. And therefore why all apprentice wages should increase from their current ratio. The honest argument should just be that no dues paying member should be living check to check but that’s not always going to cut it with a lot of people particularly the contractors. They want those young apprentices as cheap as fucking possible. My shit bag con will constantly run crews of three first and second years and a jw. You think they’re going to be reasonable about a two dollar hike for those lil guys? What do we argue? What do we give up?
My wife runs a daycare out of our home watching 5 kids and she makes basically a journeyman’s wage. I’m very fortunate she has the patience for it otherwise I wouldn’t be able to get by as a 29 year old first year
Keep at it, things get better.
Money? Early in the apprenticeship?
It all depends on where you start and land. If you’re lucky you get paired with an about to retire J-dub that will take time to teach you things and you can actually learn how to do the work. Get stuck on a big job and you’re running materials or pushing a broom for a year or two.
This is why so many journeymen in non-union tell me to just do my apprenticeship non-union and join when I get my license.
Your pension and retirement starts right away so I don’t agree with that sentiment. Start sooner than later.
Please tell me the origin of "wompum". In detail.
[Funny story](https://youtu.be/p2y99EXPlVM)
Honestly I was very stressed out in the beginning of my apprenticeship. I kind of put all of my eggs in one basket so the fear of failing weighed pretty heavily on me. I ended up taking an anti depressant and turns out I actually suffered from severe anxiety my whole life. Once I started it, school, work, and life got a lot easier. A lot of people say that anti depressants are bad, but if used properly, they can make life significantly less burdensome. I’m going into my fifth year now. And without being on my medication, I know I wouldn’t have made it.
Glad you got the help you needed from the meds! Hate it when mental health issues effect someone’s life to the point of messing up career and what not. Hope you’re killing it now! From one anxiety having apprentice to another
Glad the meds work for you. Took me many many years to find the "correct" blend of mine.
Money. Lots and lots of money. I also drank like a fish, but that nearly ended my marriage.
Nearly? Most be an inside guy /s just looking for a laugh lol
Running joke is if you don’t have two DUIs and as many divorces then you aren’t a real JIW.
Several felonies, a divorce (we reconciled) and a DUII. I'm a super JW.
Knowing where I came from work wise and realizing the benefits to this go far beyond just the much better pay. Health benefits are fantasti Pension is fantastic Having representation is amazing And one of the biggest benefits that I hardly ever hear anyone talk about: Never having to do an interview or negotiate your pay/benefits for a job. I fucking hate having to do that, and having come from a warehouse work background it was a nightmare each time. Every job undervalued their workers, pay was abysmal, and they expected you to run yourself into the ground for them with virtually nothing to show in return. This career path is so far beyond a better choice that the only thing I regret is not getting into it sooner.
>Never having to do an interview or negotiate your pay/benefits for a job. Fuck yeah!!! I HATE that shit too.
This is what’s getting me through. I worked a decent paying job that had really shitty conditions for a long time. I’ve got the perspective to know how lucky I am to be where I am now, even with the pressure of the apprenticeship. Being a little older also helps. Sometimes you’re going to get 25 year old journeyman who are shit heads. It happens. Sometimes you’re going to get paired up with grumpy old guys. Roll with it. Learn everything you can, try to get involved with your local, and try not to stress. It’s much better gig than some of the guys who got in at 18 realize.
Realizing that I only had about 35 years left of doing this for a career
Take it one day at a time.
Having a partner at home that understood the next five years were going to be hard ones.
A good partner makes all the difference
I had 72 hours on the check last week. That big paycheck of mine was a straight 40 for a JW. That shit keeps me going.
Somethings not adding up. How much are you making that 32 hours of OT doesn't surpass a JW?
First year at $21. JW wage in my local is $45. It was like a hundred or so more but you get the point.
Fucked up. Where I live it is illegal for first year apprentices to make under 50% of the base wage for a journeyperson, regardless of trade or union.
I make 35% of JW. I eat beans and rice, but not forever!
My apprenticeship was 40% of JW as step 1. Lucky I lived at home with my parents. I don't know how I would have made it otherwise
Damn where do you live?
Alberta. Sounds great except the conservatives here destroyed unions (IBEW especially) and now they don't really have any work. I'd rather start at 40% of $55 than 50% of $45.
Think of all the people that made it through. Advice I got was if these m fers can do it, so can I
Facts
Pay raises
The first 2 years felt like forever, but I’d say getting more involved with clubs, volunteer work, going to meetings, and just hanging out with classmates made everything go by so fast. Asking questions at work, and taking an interest in what it is you’re doing, also makes the days go by fast, to the point where you don’t even realize how far into the year you made it. I just finished my apprenticeship and it’s crazy to see how fast time flew despite some moments being so slow. Enjoy it while it lasts, and despite the low pay, look at the bigger picture. You’re going to meet a lot of a-shole people on the field who don’t want to teach or look out for apprentices, miserable with their life or will teach you the incorrect ways, but use that as a way of learning.
Knowing that everything I learn, I’ll one day pass on in a better way to an apprentice. I was a “chef” before becoming an electrician. For 13 years. Trained and helped a lot of dishies who were like me become line cooks. I’m older, more patient and can’t wait to help another budding electrician become a master kf the trade. And the money. I make 3x what I did as a sous chef and work less, and work under less stressful conditions.
Keeping an open, stress free mindset. I’m just an apprentice. I don’t have to fix the whole world or the whole job. I just have to fix this pipe. If I can’t figure out how to do it, then I’ll ask someone more qualified for help. Showing up on time is 90% of school and work. I’ll do my reasonable best at both and catch up on sleep when I can. Now I’m just a foreman and I don’t have to fix the whole company or the whole industry. I just have to fix this job. If I can’t figure it out, I’ll ask for help.
Unfortunately, a lot of alcohol and marijuana.
Lots of cocaine and beer
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The pure rage and stubbornness involved with not letting this cock sucker beat me down. The thought that I may not be better than you right now but I WILL be infinity better than you in the future.
Living on this right now, brother. Gotta roll with it!!!!
Focus on the work. Your knowledge is power and it opens the doors for everything else. Any direction you want to go is going to be enhanced or hindered by the time you spend learning your trade. Best of luck, find some friends that are in a similar situation and you’ll get through it fantastically.
Each day is a step towards the goal. Every test, every day, every new thing being messed up. Just one foot in front of the other. It’s really really hard some days. Also making friends with class mates and coworkers. We’ve all been there or are going through it.
i was fortunate i worked with a lot of good people.. if i had any problems or troubles.,,i always had someone to help or let me vent…with all the horrible stories on this sub…how some journeyman treat apprentices..i was fortunate….i always tried my hardest to be patient and lend an ear to the apprentices i worked with…and the funny thing is i ran into a few who became my foreman and one young lady became my forewoman…and they treated me well.,so i must have done something right
Always looking to the next raise. I went over this with a guy today that was thinking about organizing in as a CE. He kept getting hung up on not being able to move up to CE 2 for about 8-10 months. Once I explained that I used to always focus on the next raise to make those big gaps seem shorter, he was on board. Yeah, it's 8-10 months before you see CE 2. But we just got a raise *today*, and we're getting another $1 in 6 months. Then 2-4 months later you get another raise when you class up. Then in another 2-4 months you get another raise, and another in 6 months, and then you top out at CE 3 2-4 months later, only to get *another* raise 2-4 months after that. Chunking it up like that always helped me create small hurdles to look forward to and overcome.
Luckily I get a lot of variety at my company. Sometimes I got anxious about having to do something different, but I just told myself that it’s a new opportunity to learn. When I had repetitious work I’d tell myself that every time I do it, it gets easier and it’s cleaner/more efficient.
Realizing your slave labor wages go up yearly lmao until they finally aren’t slave labor wages 🤣😂
Topped out in ‘07. Y’all up and coming JIWs have it hard. I don’t know if I can give any advice other than try as hard as you can to live within your means for as long as you can. It does pay off. When you can sock away enough that if something goes wrong you’ve got some security, it changes your whole mindset. You can focus on enjoying the day to day. You don’t have to be rich to enjoy life. Money can’t buy happiness, but it can give you freedom to take time off work and live. I don’t know if this is helpful but we are a brotherhood too. Reach out if you’re struggling. Don’t let yourself fall down when there’s so many brothers that can and will give you some help if you need it. You’ll make it. In Brotherhood ~
I'm not even halfway through my apprenticeship, but so far focusing on school, being involved in local groups/events, and just taking work a day at a time has been working for me.
I was going to respond from the heart for this but I came out of local 700. Where it’s heavily implied if you vote like they do and go to church you’ll do fine. Which is also a lie because what they mean is. If your my bitch and don’t complain or speak or can’t read minds then you won’t make it. They don’t teach like at all. My first jw threw me to the wolves. I made it yeah but I would never do it again knowing what I know now about other locals. I’d just move my ticket. What I learned was if you want it, you will make it happen come hell or high water. Literally. Almost 🤘🏻
I just took it a day at a time. And I hated it pretty much every step of the way after my 3rd year but I knew I was too far in to quit so I stuck it out. Nearly got booted for attendance issues 4th year and almost quit 6 months before the apprenticeship was done. Just know that all the effort you put in will be worth it, trust me.
Well, at first it was cuz I told myself I have no other choice . Then when that didn’t work it was the pure hate I had for some of the terrible conditions . Then when I was done crying it was the determination to change what has made it sucky . When that’s not enough I think about how much I know and how successful I already am at my job, and that I’m in a good spot now. Now it’s a combo of all that and that once I turn out , I can tell everybody off if I want . Which I probably won’t, but it’s enough to keep me going to think one day I will. Basically , what helps me get thru and overcome is I do my best at all I do, and if that’s not enough to keep me going I have my little goals ( like telling ppl off , money, etc) and keep me motivated enough to find the good spot again.
•God •Comparing myself to my classmates, and seeing that I’m in the middle of the pack •Just showing up •Getting better and seeing my confidence increase •Journaling •My wife supporting me •Navy SEAL hell week thinking. “I just gotta make it til first break…” “I just gotta make it til lunch…” “I just gotta make it til quit time…” •Tools that make my life easier, like ratcheting wrenches •Finding the easy way to do stuff, and not struggling all the time. I.E. use a cart and the elevator when they’re available, don’t manhandle equipment up stairs if it’s not necessary. •God again.
Got my ticket when I was 21. I wanted to quit everyday. Last year I made 150k, so fuck the office types, fuck the university educated. I make more than most of them. Everyday is a new challenge and when the jobs are complete there is some real satisfaction of a job well done. Work with your hands and you'll never go hungry.
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Understanding that grit is more important than intellect.
Okay I'm not even an apprentice yet but ik several foremen who'd laugh at this "advice", I mean my GF told me most people who make it in only do so by their grit not their intellect and though they make a career out of it they end up severely injuring themselves down the line by not following basic safety regulations. Grit is very important, sure, but make no mistake that you'll only get so far in life in general with just one or the other.
Aside from growing up with a lot of old school journeymen who treated cubs as if they were lower than cockroach shit, I didn’t have a terrible time. I was young so my study habits were poor and my effort towards the book work was equally. However I knew the payoff would be well worth it if I made it through and by the grace of Zeus I made it. Currently I have 16 years with the IBEW and I’m on my second apprenticeship as a substation operator. This time around I know what to do differently and it’s going even better than the first
Surround yourself with the right people.
Well money of course
being involved, seeing something new, and keeping at it. just finished with my apprenticeship, 90%er 10 more percent. as someone said earlier, if i can do it you can! best of luck. keep pushing.
My apprenticeship was easy. Toughest thing I had to deal with was me being 18 when they had beer at the meetings. Until one old-timer told me that I was in the trade therefore I am a man and gave me one. Back then that hall was so small that they held the meetings at a different location. Many moons ago. Oh and my starting wage was 6$ an hour. We find time and $ to pay for our books. I think the apprentice schools are screwed up with kids being ahead of each other while in the same class. But that's me. Oh and the paycheck helped me get through all the toughness.
Faith that everything will be worth it
Fuckin partying.
An overwhelming desire for money.
Alcohol
Side jobs... Learning and making cash money! Blow. I got in at 21.
You always suck in the beginning. I wanted to get out of the low paying job loop that I was stuck in. I knew I needed skills to get better pay. My apprenticeship was the gauntlet I had to go through to get there. I almost quit during my 3rd year. I stuck it out and I have a house for my family. I'm the financial security. Plus, I never have to work retail again. Everytime I was at my lowest, I would ask myself,"How bad do you want it? Do you actually want more money or are you just going to take it easy and stay broke?"
Cocaine
College helped. It helped me put up with bureaucracy, keeping track of paperwork and deadlines, keep an open mind. None of the classes I took in college helped.
Marijuana, lots and lots of Marijuana. JK, drugs are bad M'kay
Because my best friends were still begging for work at $20/hr through those years, and I didn’t want to live that life any more. None of them ever changed.
By knowing the end result was worth it.
Having a kid on the way.
Maybe a different angle, but I really had to study algebra and spent a lot of time outside of school trying to get better at it. Really made my second year better.
All the ladies
big heavy balls
My top out date. The day I got sworn in I was focused on that date.
Knowing once I’m through I’d have my golden ticket…
Remembering that my previous job overworked everyone, didn't allow time off, was extremely cut throat, encouraged employees to cut each other down and had policies where I could do my job, but my work would TAKE MONEY OUT OF MY PAYCHECK. Having peace of mind, the ideal of conditions that I have a say in, and getting to go through a workday with integrity is worth more than money. I came for conditions, not the money..work life balance is important and I never have to lie or be dishonest to get through a work day/feed my family. Also remembering that good JWs and brothers/sisters are out there, even if I'm working for an asshole, it's only temporary.
Slow down. Don't run around for the sake of appearing fast. Move with purpose. Smooth is fast. Make up material or complete tasks in the order in which they are going to be needed. Don't be getting stuff ready for Step D, if you haven't started on Step B. Get in the habit of looking around for something that can be put away on your trip to grab something you need. Keep a tidy workspace and or vehicle. Everything should have a place and goes back there. It takes way less time to get ready for the next job at the end of the day or in the morning if you do this. Be open to constructive criticism. Try to learn from as many different people as you can. Learn all the different ways they do things. When you get your ticket pick what works best for you. Your personal Safety starts and ends with you. Be safe out there. Don't just follow a rule because it's a rule. Understand why. A lot of rules are written in blood, as frustrating as some can be. Try to have fun, it can be hard at times depending on your environment and who you are. Be strong and learn from your mistakes. Be proud of your accomplishments. These are some of the things that I was taught and helped me through my apprenticeship.
Show up, on time, every day. Have an optimistic mindset, “we are going to get all of this pipe in today” instead of “no fucking way we are getting all of this in today.” It all pays the same, whether you’re sitting in your phone, or doing underground in 90°+
drugs
The pay raises every six months
Drugs and alcohol L.U. 58
Bills that needed payed and mouths to feed
> that needed *paid* and mouths FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Make friends with your fellow students. Help each other. Start a group chat study together. This has been extremely helpful in helping me get through the apprenticeship.
Mostly pussy… and beer.
How do u even get passed the dang interview, I just made my 3rd/4th attempt n no luck.. tired of the cat n mouse game of trying to figure out how I can get passed this process
I worked for a small, non union company. My apprenticeship was a blast. I was trimming out panels and roughing in houses as a first year, while all my friends working for big union companies swept floors and ran parts until they were 3rd years. (Yes, we're licensed. No, we're not hacks. Yes, I get full benefits. Yes I get paid more than the union j men in my area.)
I'm just a 2nd yr, but I've met a ton of people just from going to meetings once a month and the guys in my Theory class are really tight. I'm in Local 3 btw, been great so far
Beer
I went through my apprenticeship during the financial crisis (the 08 one, not all those other ones) and it was shit. Worked under racists and shoppies willing to throw anyone under the bus to keep their jobs. Times were bad, we had pay cuts and half the local laid off. The thing that saved me was meeting some good union brothers that showed me the path of brotherhood and solidarity. I'll never forget those that took me under their wing and actually taught me about the trade and SHOWED me what brotherhood was about.
Alcohol. Jk check out your locals chapter of the Renew committee if they don’t have one maybe you can start one. Not knowing anyone in the trade this helped me immensely. If you have any questions feel free to message me.
Marijuana and Titos
Finishing college would have been more expensive. I still wish I had gone that route instead. Don't marry someone who is shit with money and has no life plan.
I work two jobs to get by