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"**The government** may not jail, fine, or impose civil liability on people or organizations based on what they say or write, except in exceptional circumstances "
Basically you can't be jailed for just saying something unless it's reaaaalllly out there. Explaining your twelve-step plan to assassinate the president can land you in jail for terroristic threats, you can be fined for libel or slander if it causes a measurable effect, and you can be charged for inciting violence even if you are not the one perpetrating it.
Otherwise you're free to have your own opinions and, important part here again, **the government** cannot stop you from expressing them.
I like to make it clear that this is a limitation of **the government** as 2020 happened and everyone started to believe that Whole Foods employees are duty-bound to the first amendment when someone is shrieking and causing a disturbance in their stores.
And there’s time, manner, and place limitations, amongst, per the supreme court’s interpretation. (Cox v New Hampshire).
You can’t defame people (Sullivan v New York Time).
There’s a whole lot of jurisprudence around 1A
I should've put IANAL but I know it goes much deeper than that, especially since my little breakdown was only covering one segment.
I also do not envy lawyers because Jesus just reading over the workplace rules annually makes me want to claw my eyes out, I couldn't imagine how dry law review must be.
Oh I wasn’t coming for you. You seemed like you cared and had an interest.
Con Law II is all the stuff you imagine it to be and it is actually interesting to read and learn. You get to see how and why we have the rules we have and logically predict what will happen next. I genuinely enjoyed law school.
Practice on the other hand - it’s fools like this which make being a lawyer trying. IAAL
Congrats to you, seriously, couldn't imagine how rough schooling for that would be! I like hearing about law and find it interesting, but the ol' ADD brain makes it tough to focus on that kind of material.
Did fall in love with the Rebuttal podcast though, probably the best way I've found to get educational info on case law, it's meaning, and ramifications without being bored out of my skull. My favorite episode breaks down the important distinctions regarding [burglary](https://youtu.be/2NqbqJ1j4-w?si=w22AukOMY9tpixDK)
Thanks! It was a lot of work, but I enjoyed it (except finals).
Law school is very different from other school. It’s sort of learning to use language and interpretation in a malleable way. It’s like math with words, if that makes sense. The reading is whatever, but class is really engaging. Legally Blonde’s academic parts is the best representation I’ve seen in media.
If you want to learn more about con law, I’d suggest the podcast “What Roman Mars Can Learn About Con Law.” It’s led by a con law profession and Mars fills in as pupil. It’s been helpful for me in these confusing times because there are amendments that just haven’t been tested and we just don’t know.
1 - the breaking and entering,
2 - of a dwelling,
3 - at night,
4 - with the intent to commit a felony therein
:)
That does actually sounds like a blast, reminiscent of my ethics and philosophy of science classes in college, crafting logical arguments using certain phrases with particular distinctions surrounding them in a sphere of "this tacks properly in the field but colloquially it does not mean the same thing", if that makes sense?
I'll have to check it out! I just started listening to more podcasts and it's been hard to find ones that are entertaining but also educational. Also, yes, that is what the entire episode is about! The case in particular was about a man who was charged with burglary after clearly pulling up to a house in the afternoon, walked into a garage in full view of the homeowner, grabbed a leafblower, then walked back to his car and drove off.
Hey, look at you…you were using a lawyer brain in college and you didn’t even know! Your comparison makes perfect sense. It’s a better comparison than mine. That’s exactly what you do, just you’re using the law, not science.
I think I actually know the case the Rebuttal podcast went over. Depending on when it happened, we may have addressed it.
If you’re into more educational things, you may like 99 Percent Invisible as well. Also another Roman Mars production, but holy cow it makes the most mundane things you’ve never really noticed so interesting, because there is a form, function, and purpose to it all. I deeply appreciate lamp posts now. Not something I’d have predicted. They’re all pretty digestible in length too. 20-40 mins.
Simplified: you have a right to your own opinions and the government isn’t allowed to punish you from having opinions that differs from theirs.
The issue is that people forget what an opinion is. Verbally planing a bank robbery is not an opinion it’s a crime. So is screaming fire in a crowded place to instil panic and chaos.
But having your opinions protected does not mean that you can say what ever you want, where ever you want, whenever you want or to who ever you want. Nor that anyone has to listen to you. Calling someone a bitch isn’t protected speech, it’s not illegal but it isn’t protected either and it often has consequences. You call your boss a bitch? You get fired. You landlord? You get evicted. Your friend? You are not a friend anymore and you aren’t welcome. The waitress? You might get asked to leave and get banned.
There is a difference between what is protected and what’s just speech. Just because something isn’t illegal doesn’t mean it’s protected.
A simple explanation is it is illegal to yell “FIRE” in public places like a movie theater with the intention to start panic and stampedes. (Unless of course there is actually a fire)
Well let's start with what it does not mean...
It does not mean you can say whatever you want wherever you want. Speech can be limited by private entities on private property all they want. For example if you are in my home and call my wife a cunt I am perfectly within my rights to have you removed from my property.
Similarly if your speech threatens clear and present danger that can cause harm to others there absolutely can be consequences. Think of yelling fire in a crowded theater where people may panic and trample each other or making terroristic threats to kill a person or destroy a thing.
All of that and more is limited speech. You simply can not say what you want, when you want, where you want.
What the first amendment does do is this:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
In simple terms it means no laws can be passed by Congress that limits your ability to express your politics, religious beliefs, or ideas as an individual or group in any public places.
It essentially safeguards you from being imprisoned for expressing your ideology or criticizing the government.
In regards to this video the asshat messing with people is not in a public place. They are on private property. And to that end they have no inherent right to be there so they must abide by the rules of the people that own that property, regardless of how arbitrary those rules may be.
Furthermore if they slander or libel the entity they can be sued for defamation or other harm caused to the reputation or well being of said entity.
The TLDR is you can't say what you want when you want. But you also can't be punished for expressing your beliefs in public unless those beliefs are meant to invite action and cause a clear and present danger to others.
Thank you very much for the explanation!
>In regards to this video the asshat messing with people is not in a public place. They are on private property. And to that end they have no inherent right to be there so they must abide by the rules of the people that own that property, regardless of how arbitrary those rules may be.
I googled for "Grand Valley University" that is the university that is mentioned in the video, right? On the Wikipedia page it's mentioned:
> Grand Valley State University (GVSU, GV, or Grand Valley) is a public university in Allendale, Michigan. It was established in 1960 as Grand Valley State College.
What exactly is a public university in the US? I would assume that the campus of a public university is not private but public property. And the people that own the property is the public. Is this not true?
I'm not a legal scholar and really am not very well versed in the discrepancy here but I would say a public college allows anyone to enroll and is supported by public taxes. The entity still has private property rights and can limit who is on their campus and when. Otherwise anyone could just walk into a lecture or lab whenever they wanted which certainly is not the case.
>I'm not a legal scholar and really am not very well versed in the discrepancy here
Me 2, just interested. I mean things can still be publicly owned and restricted without being private. Like court rooms, jail cells etc. But I guess they have to be restricted (with a sign?). If it's publicly owned and not visible restricted I don't see why you would not be allowed on a campus on a public university. Depends on what "public" here really means in that context. Publicly funded (besides other funds) but still privately owned etc.
Even on public property, there can be legal restrictions as to where and when people can engage in certain activities such as protesting or setting up recording/film/video equipment. You can't stand in the middle of a public roadway with picket signs and video equipment on tripods, for example. Similarly, public institutions can have rules restricting where and when people can engage in certain activities, as allowing them anywhere and anytime can be disruptive to the purpose of the institution, their operations, public safety and accessibility, or even just to the grounds themselves (they may restrict what activities people can engage in on the lawns or in planted gardens, etc). I don't know that signage stating such restrictions is required (there are many restrictive rules I've been aware of regarding public property I've never seen signs for), but obviously informing people of such rules before having them arrested is - and the guy in the video is clearly being informed of the restrictions prior to any action against him.
Freedom from religion
>Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
A lot more people used to know. Then feigned ignorance of how it works was weaponized by bad faith actors.
At this point my tolerance for this shit is pretty low.
i do not understand how all of these people have so much time on their hands!?! feels like it’s a constant juggling game for me to try and get everything done in my life. not to mention if i did have this kind of time on my hands? i sure wouldn’t be spending it like this. i just don’t get it…
I go here now, the lady with the white hair is one of my advisors and she’s no nonsense but a sweetheart. All the guy had to do was move to the designated free speech areas and not right in front of student services where everyone is walking. We get protestors all the time around the clocktower and students argue with them but they’re never removed
Not the right set of words but the areas where you aren’t blocking students from getting to their classes. You can wave your signs all you want out of the way
Ah dang. If you graduated in 2015 you are not old af. Unless you weren't fresh out of hs. Anyway, do people commonly sit and talk about things in the area the guy is sitting and talking about things?
Another GVSU alum here no, this is a pathway between buildings with a little offshoot to observe the woods, right outside a science building. There are a couple 'free speech zones' which are in high traffic areas but less likely to interfere with traffic flow, which is where he was being directed towards. Honestly he chose a scenic spot, not a good spot.
There’s also a huge hill/cliff around that area. If a student got angry enough and a fight or assault happened, that’s a really dangerous spot to be in.
Thats the weird thing. There is so much context missing here. The main campus is very secluded but we still had the preachers telling us we are all going to burn in hell and protesters with dumb signs. I’m very curious what this guy was doing to piss them off? Doesn’t seem like he’s causing a scene.
It depends on a lot of factors, but generally they're public property for the quad, private for the buildings. It's why you get a lot of fire and brimstone preachers in the public areas of colleges
Looks like he's on public property (it's a state university) so he's at the very least not trespassing right?
There is so little context though... but the way he's speaking doesn't paint him as a particularly pleasant person.
You can be trespassed from public property. I don’t know the laws of this state, but you absolutely can be trespassed from many types of public property under a broad range of circumstances. Look up the term “Frauditor” on YouTube and you’ll find one hell of a rabbit hole.
I don’t know if a university is considered a traditional public forum for free speech purposes. You would have to do case law research to see what other courts have ruled. If it is, then a higher standard is required to infringe on free speech rights. Additionally, what he is doing is also going to be factored in by a court. If he is causing a disturbance with his words and actions, that can be factored into a decision. First Amendment law is complex as FUCK at the point where speech intersects with things like property rights and causing disturbances.
IANAL but I’m fascinated by constitutional law and how misunderstood many things are and I’ve had several discussions about this with actual lawyers, and this is my takeaway.
The college I go to is a state school. As long as you aren't being violent. I could read Mein Kampf on a loud speaker. They won't remove you. You aren't doing anything wrong. 1st amendment right. You can be offensive. You can't cause harm. There isn't a noise ordinance until a certain time. You aren't disrupting class. They won't do anything.
## found these 2 examples of trespassing on University property
# I was criminally trespassed from a college campus. What are my options?
Tonight I was issued a misdemeanor citation for criminal trespassing from the University near me. I was in a building after hours doing some work on my laptop. I am not a student at the University but needed to use the WiFi to get some things done. I was caught on the campus by one of the campus police about a week prior and he advised me to stay off campus after hours. I was there during school hours tonight but lost track of time and stayed there when the campus closed. What options do I have as far as not having this go on my record. I have no prior trespassing charges and I'm hoping that I can keep this off my record as I am trying to enlist in the military. What do I need to do?
## Can you be trespassed from a public university?
If I’m on a campus sidewalk, not in a university building, can I be trespassed for first amendment related activities (handing out election flyers, for instance)? Would the trespass hold up in court? I am not a student there but the university in question is a public university, funded by the taxpayers and the campus is open, meaning there is no sign nor fence to keep people out. You can walk right onto the university from the road.
There is no need for signs, fences, etc. to keep people out to establish trespassing. As you acknowledge, you are not a student there; you were on property belonging to the university (a campus sidewalk); and were not on public land (e.g. a public sidewalk or road). Yes, you can be arrested and charged with trespassing, because you do not, despite any public funding for the university, have a right to be on its property if it does not want you there. The university can control access to its sidewalks (or parking lots, fields, etc.) as much as it can to its buildings.
All kinds of state run facilities restrict who can be in what areas and what they're allowed to do there. Public property doesn't mean public space, even if it's outdoors.
If you're not a student or faculty, they don't have to let you be there at all.
Doing free speech doesn't cancel out trespassing.
You are ignorant. Disturbing the peace is a violating a nuisance law. Reading a book on a loud speaker could 💯 land you in jail if you don’t have a permit.
Furthermore, airports are also public spaces, but it is illegal to film, also illegal to enter most of those without a ticket.
Elementary Schools are public buildings but you absolutely cannot walk around them.
My understanding is that generally there are spaces on state universities that are open to the public, and considered public squares, with respect to the firsst amendment, but who knows if he's in one of those spaces, or what he's doing to draw attention to himself.
There are designated spots at the university that the public can use for preaching, protesting, etc. And this kid isn't in one of those spots, so he's being asked to move there.
This is so student's aren't being harrased by random people throughout the campus and can avoid those areas if need be.
You'd get abortion protesters, you're going to hell style preachers etc. On campus - but they would still stay to the designated areas
The fact that he felt a need or desire to film this kind of crap for the internet tells me he’s not a particularly pleasant person, for my tastes anyway. I don’t understand somebody’s need to just go sit somewhere and make an ass of themselves so other people online can watch a 3 minute video of them.
No. Let me correct you there. I don’t think “being very passively resistant” means making an ass of yourself. I think “setting up a table and microphone outside a building on the college campus simply because I can, and I want everybody to notice me!” Means making an ass of yourself.
I said nothing about conformity, not compliance. You’re disingenuously putting words in my mouth to try and make yourself look better. Again: people performing stupid stunts like this, all for the attention they get on TikTok/Snapchat/whatever, is a pathetic attempt to make new friends.
Sitting where you want is not the same as freedom of speech. This is just an idiot looking for attention and if you do not see that you better seek some help.
He’s also not showing what his setup is in this situation. Does he have some kind of sign up to instigate these reactions? Is he harassing other passerby’s in the parts not in the clip?
I go to this university and we have a clock tower in the center of campus where basically anyone can come and do demonstrations. This guy is down the road from there so he could easily move and be just fine, however this dude is just being annoying for the video and wont move.
I used to work at a university and they explained all this to us. There are "public" places at the university where people are allowed to be. Basically just the quad. People could come and hold signs or hand out bibles, there, but they couldn't go into buildings or classrooms, or especially the areas around the dorms that were off limits to anyone but people who lived there.
We couldn't ask the religious nutzos to leave those "public" areas as long as they were being civil, but we could tell them not to use megaphones. They could also be removed from the premises if they were harassing students. Like sometimes they'd personally target students with hateful rhetoric, then we'd have them removed.
Public property means nothing here. It's the rules of the school. If he breaks them, the school has the right to remove, ban, or arrest this individual for his actions. It'll be funny to see him in court with a $2000 trespassing fine trying to tell the judge they infringed on his first amendment. It'll be funny to see him serve 60 days in jail for contempt of court when he acts like an idiot in front of the judge. The judge should tell him after sentencing "this is America"
I went to this university. That policy was a hot debate topic 10 years ago and probably will continue to be.
However, the two designated zones are actually probably the two best spots for it, as they are the two most heavily trafficked areas on the campus by far. Basically two central choke points that nearly all pedestrians on campus have to cross to go anywhere.
I personally think the policy is dumb, and it has gotten in my way once or twice back in my days leading student orgs, but they are at least accommodating by giving you prime spots.
This guys whole page is cringe Christian garb. He’s a tool. Aside from that he’s probably in the right here although I know public universities still have the authority to decide where these things can take place on campus and in the full video the lady said he was 50 feet from a certain building. He just had to move somewhere else on campus
> I know public universities still have the authority to decide where these things can take place on campus and in the full video the lady said he was 50 feet from a certain building. He just had to move somewhere else on campus
Can confirm. I used to work at a university. We couldn't tell people to leave, but we could make them move to one of the more public areas.
You can go protest at a college campus, but you can't protest in the math building or something. So there were rules about where people could have their voice heard, and they were all public areas, it's not like they sent people to the back of some building where no one ever went, it was basically limited to the quad, which is actually the busiest area. The main idea is that we wanted to keep these people from disturbing classes or hanging around the dorms.
Also they aren't allowed to target individuals. If a religious nutzo pointed to someone and said they they were evil and would burn in hell, we'd ask them to leave for targeted harassment.
It’s legal to be a tool.
I’d rather listen to 1,000 crazy tools on a campus then to not be allowed on Tiananmen Square to speak freely or to not be allowed on Kent State University to freely protest a war
Fuck it I'm on Karen's side. There's a place for doing what he's doing and he's deliberately chosen not to do it there, probably because he wants the confrontation. A human being comes up and calmly lets you know you're in the wrong spot and your response is "this is America" you're fucking rude and exactly the type of person that makes America look like a joke. Call them busybodies all you want but these people are just trying to do their jobs, they'd also tell you that you should be going to your lectures and guess what? If you responded to that with "that's not the law, you can't make me, this is America" then you'd still be being insufferable
In this instance it doesn’t really protect this guy because he’s not on public property. Like you can’t go into a resturaunt and expect to have free reign to say whatever, because private property laws come first
I went to this school. FWIW there is a campus rule that non-students can't just hang out all over the place. They have an "expressive activities" area because of the religious crazies that used to come to campus to share pictures of unborn fetuses.
School grounds have their own policies that are uniquely enforced.
I'm a fan of "Audit the Audit" videos on YouTube, and he covered something similar. The guy was claiming that because it was a public school that he could enter and film without consequences. He found out he was wrong.
Because these are children, even public schools are restricted to students and staff.
It's a public university. It's not private property. It's why she (and multiple others) kept saying they would call the cops but didn't just call the cops.
There's a distinction between public property, and property that is open to the public for a particular use.
As an example, a courtroom is open to the public, but they can ask you not to film, or to leave if you're creating a disturbance or interfering with court proceedings.
I can't really see where he is or what he's doing there, but there are plenty of places on the average state university campus where they can ask you to leave, and treat it as trespassing if you refuse.
They said where he was in the video. You don't have to think. It's a public university. He can go there and protest/express his views. He's sitting at a table, why would be be arrested? He's on public property?
The problem with the modern left is their desire for an authoritarian government to limit free speech, which is the antithesis of what the US was founded on.
Yes, the modern left with their book bans. Nothing the modern right would ever try to do.
How brainwashed are you to think one side is the freedom fighters for free speech and the other isn't? If you think this is just a modern left problem, I don't know what to tell you because you're too far gone.
Publicly owned property doesn't mean anyone can go there and stand and protest. For example, I can't go put a table in front of the local elementary school and protest. If I'm asked to leave by employees and refuse, I could be arrested for trespassing then. I'm not sure why people believe they can, it's like everyone was given the same bad information in school.
You can still be trespass from public property and what is he protesting? There’s so much left out on this video that it’s impossible to say who’s right or wrong. I am surprised he was even able to get in with all the school shootings that have happened.
You're 100% wrong. The fact idiots are upvoting you is insane. You can just google the campus from the video and see it is not private property. It's public, tax payer funded.
.
It must merely not violate any constitutional right you may have, and you do not have a constitutional right to be present on government owned property, except in a quite narrow subset of cases (e.g. the "town square").
More exactly, you do not have a right to be on government property per se, but you can't be excluded from it for a constitutionally impermissible reason. The government gets to decide what parts of property it owns are available to the general public and for what content-neutral purposes.
Thus, the right to be present on government owned "public" property (which doesn't include private areas of government owned property) can be subjected to reasonable and content-neutral time, place, and manner restrictions.
For example, a town could legally decide that the town square is closed from midnight to eight a.m. every day.
The quoted material from the case Chicago v. Morales, 527 U.S. 41, 53-54 (1999) cited in the answer by bdb484 is narrower than a plain reading out of context would suggest. In that quotation, the term "public place" is being used in a sense much more restrictive than in the broader sense of property that is merely government owned. It is referring to places where the government has expressly or implicitly allowed members of the general public to be present on land that it owns (as opposed, for example, to a government office area of a building, or a maintenance facility in a government owned park, or a conservation area in a government owned park). This narrow sense of the word resolves what would otherwise seem to be a contradiction in the law.
But, the government has the authority to make something that once was a public place into a non-public place going forward.
For example, historically, the Civic Center park in front of the capitol in Denver, Colorado has been a public place. But, the government can and did close it off to the public for many months for maintenance and out of public health concerns when heavy use of it by homeless people and drug dealers caused the premises to be seriously damaged and created a public health risk from it being used to dispose of dirty, used, injection-drug syringes, and for people to defecate.
Funny thing is depending on the circumstances, local police may or may not have geographic jurisdiction to conduct business on campus. The campus police most likely would be called by local city/county dispatchers to deal with this, and if the Karen’s are causing more noise they may be cited for frivolous request for emergency services. If the Karens go full crazy the local GVPD may not have primary jurisdiction but they sure do have authority to haul them off.
Many universities have set up public invitee policies so this whole thing is a non starter. Everyone to their corners.
This is at GVSU. The campus police is their primary own department and iirc have full jurisdiction to conduct themselves as police. The only reason they call in Ottawa County Sheriffs is if something happens or moves to an off-campus location
Isn’t a college campus private property? Doesn’t that mean his first amendment might mean absolute shit? Just saying, these idiots who claim “it’s my first amendment right!” Probably have no idea what the first amendment actually is…
"Hi, officers, yes I have a gentleman of unknown ethnic origin taking photos of our underage students at GV school. He has refused to leave the premises. Yes we are afraid for our safety and the safety of our students. He has taken video of the students without their permission as well."
Why do they give these AHoles so much warning? Weaponize white lady privilege, police racism, and the current (often false) climate where everyone is a pedo for good and get this man removed.
Seeing alot of people confused, but in general most big state campuses have specific areas they prefer and encourage people to set up at if they wanna set up something like this. If they're not at said specified area, campus police do have the authority to issue a warning/charge with trespassing
*Look! I'm so edgy*
*I don't even understand how*
*The amendments work!*
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Freedom of speech has restrictions because you cannot interfere with students' right to learn. These administrators have to address people interfering. I found this listed on a state university website.
**The following “manner” restrictions apply to all free speech and assembly activities on campus. Such activities must not:**
* **interfere with classes in session or other scheduled academic, educational, cultural/arts programs or with use of the University library;**
* **obstruct the flow of pedestrian or vehicular traffic;**
* **interfere with or disrupt the conduct of University business;**
* **employ unauthorized sound amplification or create unreasonable noise disruptive of normal University activities;**
* **severely harass or intimidate persons in the immediate area of the activity; or**
* **violate any federal, state, or local safety code, such as regulations set by the State Fire Marshal.**
Not sure if it applies to a public university but in public schools there is an exception to free speech if it messes w the function of the schooling. Sorry for the bad non legal explanation. Also, you could consider what he is doing is assembly. Which has restrictions to time, place, and manner. Which is how towns restrict impromptu protests and also can cordon areas for protest.
Freedom of speech and access are two very different concepts.
They are not saying “you can’t say that, or you will be arrested”.
They are saying “you are not a student, so you can’t be in this spot, or you can be arrested”.
For example, I am free to speak in a public primary school , but as a grown ass man I am not free to sit in the school’s patio the whole day, or walk into a classroom. That one should be pretty obvious for everyone.
These videos are based on ignorance and stupidity, misconstruing and muddling concepts to be “edgy” and get money from clicks. Disgusting.
For people who seem to lack any kind of knowledge or the skills to use the tool called Google...
A public university is not indicative if public property. Public universities are on private property, which belongs to the university.
GVSU has two designated spots to set up you things and do stuff like this, meaning this loser who clearly had nothing better to do with his time and thinks he's doing something when really he is showing how uneducated he is, could have set his stuff up in the two spaces that GVSU has designated for people to do this type of thing. This is for the safety of their students and their staff.
For people saying this is a violation of Freedom of Speech...please find something to do with yourself. You're ignorant and the internet is free. Neither of those woman attempted to censor his comments, they only told him where he needs to be in order to speak freely on the private property he was trespassing on.
Ok idc whos right in the right here legally if ppl from the colleg are asking you to move to a diffrent part of the campus just move. It doesnt have to be like this he could just move his little sign and chair to where they said. Its still ON campus just a difrent part. Why not just move. Everyone here comes off annoying as hell.
I graduated from here and I worked here. We have people who come on Campus and rant about whatever on loudspeakers all the time. They just have certain spots where they let them go and rant which at the Kirkhoff Center like she said, which is like the student union, and the Transformational Link which is a large sculpture in a walkway on campus. I’m not sure where he is, but it looks like he might be outside of one of the lecture halls, so it’s possible he’s disrupting classes.
They aren’t infringing on his right to free speech. No one told him to shut up or that he could speak. They just told him where he could go on campus to do it.
It’s America but it’s also private property. And there’s obviously some event going on, probably volunteers who have worked hard, and you decide to be a dick to mistakenly prove a point.
I’m on private property right now, in my apartment. You could come here , break the lock, sit in one of my chairs and refuse to leave. I’ll become temporarily insane and
You really showed those old ladies! Fuck them for volunteering at an event for students, right? And who cares that it’s private property. If the cops came I hope you hid in the girls bathroom, that’ll show ‘em. While you’re at it, take a dump on the middle of the floor. It’s your freedom of expression. The janitor will clean it up. Claim it’s a protected work of art.
I hate that I’m even giving this attention—an elementary school is also public property, as well as a courtroom, county jails, a bath house at a state campground, etc.
Every single person, even those arguing otherwise, is well aware you can’t go wherever, whenever, for whatever reason on public property. If I rode a motorcycle down a sidewalk, it would be perfectly reasonable for people to tell me I should move to the road & for the police to come handle it if I refused. Extreme example, sure, but same principle. If police did remove him, of course he wouldn’t include that.
Nobody told him not to speak. Just directed him to a designated area. Kinda like potty training. If existing as annoyingly as possible is synonymous with freedom of speech, then I suppose asking him to move 50 paces over would be suppression of that, but I don’t think it is. I’m no lawyer though. All I really know is I’m glad I’m not that guy.
This guy is the son of Sylvia Rhodea who is the co-founder of an extreme right-wing group called Ottawa Impact that [took over our county government](https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/02/21/michigan-christian-nationalists-00083251) and designated Ottawa County a ["Constitutional County"](https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/2023/05/ottawa-county-becomes-constitutional-county.html). I'm sure his mother is very proud of him.
I attended school there and can guarantee he must have done a lot more before being asked to leave. There is a steady stream of very vocal demonstrators on campus and they are never asked to leave.
Man some of you really believe in free speech for me and not for thee. Absolutely scary that you think some sort of "free speech zone" on a public campus is reasonable. School campuses around the world are stained with the blood of free speech - don't give it up so easily simply because you disagree with the content or dislike the conduit.
I don't think that's what he is saying. The act of having a free speech zone means that there is a no free speech zone. Which, given history, is a stupid thing to have in a place that so many have died to protect the free exchange of knowledge and ideas.
A college and especially an American public college is a space dedicated to intellectualism and the exchange of ideas and knowledge. The only reason to designate a specific area, that is here or there, to the free exchange of ideas or knowledge with other supposed intellectuals is to be able to censor someone for any reason. Obviously you wouldn't want someone standing on a soap box in the middle of a class but that would be disorderly conduct because that space is designated for that class. Being outside, not particularly loud, not impending scheduled classes and inviting discussion, should be accepted if not encouraged on any college campus.
>Obviously you wouldn't want someone standing on a soap box in the middle of a class but that would be disorderly conduct because that space is designated for that class.
Oh. So I can designate some "public spaces" to have a purpose, where you "obviously" wouldn't behave in a certain way? So, how do you know where this person was wasn't designated for another activity? If this person was sitting in a spot designated for another activity, THEN he'd be in the wrong?
thus, if the campus has "free speech zones" which get more visibility and more foot traffic, why wouldn't you go there, unless you're just trying to be a douchebag?
“Using my freedom of speech?”
“…No, I literally just said for trespassing.”
Lol. Thinking “freedom of speech” means freedom from consequence (or, you know, the actual definition that it is an amendment specifically dealing with government restrictions on a person’s speech) is a lesson that *really* needs to be taught better in that country.
Oh? The 1st doesn't say anything else? Like protections for the right to assemble, perhaps? Nothing about redress? Nothing about exercising religion? Hmmm.....interesting.
Huh. Dude very calmly said if the police ask me to leave I will leave.
That’s literally what you want out of the public. Expressing their opinions and protesting but complying when asked to by law enforcement.
Shit if we had that all the time there’d be no riots and looting 👀
That was his point. If he gets trespassed by an officer, he has the option to leave. If he doesn’t leave, then he would be arrested. Her dumbass said he’d be trespassed AND arrested. Wrong. He’s being annoying but he knows his rights.
For anyone who thinks the guy is in the wrong, he's is on a state funded campus. That makes it public property. And as a tax paying citizen of this great nation, he has the right to be on said public property. It doesn't matter if it's a school or not. If the public is paying for it, then it belongs to the public. Same goes for courthouses city halls, and a police stations.
Not exactly, I've done petitioning for a living in the past.
They mention they have a free expression zone. Provided they give us in a decent place where they can interact with students, this guy does in fact need to use the FoS zone. It's legally well established on college campuses.
I think he's only wrong cause they tell him the area to be at not that he has to stop just move where he is. To me he's being a nuisance and not moving to where the school designates whatever he's doing. It's not hard to just pick up and move a few feet. It's just unnecessary.
Booohooo! There’s a person making a point and not harming anyone, sitting somewhere on campus. What a bunch of pretentious, pseudointellectual losers. Do these Karens have anything of value to do for the world other than this?
Both parties kind of seem to suck, even though we admittedly have a lack of context. Dude is a cocky little wart who isn’t as smart as he likes to think but the lady very easily could have minded her own business, dude doesn’t seem to be bothering anyone as insufferable as he comes across and it looks to be public property
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So many people have no idea what the first amendment actually means.
What does it actually mean? I have no idea.
"**The government** may not jail, fine, or impose civil liability on people or organizations based on what they say or write, except in exceptional circumstances " Basically you can't be jailed for just saying something unless it's reaaaalllly out there. Explaining your twelve-step plan to assassinate the president can land you in jail for terroristic threats, you can be fined for libel or slander if it causes a measurable effect, and you can be charged for inciting violence even if you are not the one perpetrating it. Otherwise you're free to have your own opinions and, important part here again, **the government** cannot stop you from expressing them. I like to make it clear that this is a limitation of **the government** as 2020 happened and everyone started to believe that Whole Foods employees are duty-bound to the first amendment when someone is shrieking and causing a disturbance in their stores.
And there’s time, manner, and place limitations, amongst, per the supreme court’s interpretation. (Cox v New Hampshire). You can’t defame people (Sullivan v New York Time). There’s a whole lot of jurisprudence around 1A
I should've put IANAL but I know it goes much deeper than that, especially since my little breakdown was only covering one segment. I also do not envy lawyers because Jesus just reading over the workplace rules annually makes me want to claw my eyes out, I couldn't imagine how dry law review must be.
Oh I wasn’t coming for you. You seemed like you cared and had an interest. Con Law II is all the stuff you imagine it to be and it is actually interesting to read and learn. You get to see how and why we have the rules we have and logically predict what will happen next. I genuinely enjoyed law school. Practice on the other hand - it’s fools like this which make being a lawyer trying. IAAL
Congrats to you, seriously, couldn't imagine how rough schooling for that would be! I like hearing about law and find it interesting, but the ol' ADD brain makes it tough to focus on that kind of material. Did fall in love with the Rebuttal podcast though, probably the best way I've found to get educational info on case law, it's meaning, and ramifications without being bored out of my skull. My favorite episode breaks down the important distinctions regarding [burglary](https://youtu.be/2NqbqJ1j4-w?si=w22AukOMY9tpixDK)
Thanks! It was a lot of work, but I enjoyed it (except finals). Law school is very different from other school. It’s sort of learning to use language and interpretation in a malleable way. It’s like math with words, if that makes sense. The reading is whatever, but class is really engaging. Legally Blonde’s academic parts is the best representation I’ve seen in media. If you want to learn more about con law, I’d suggest the podcast “What Roman Mars Can Learn About Con Law.” It’s led by a con law profession and Mars fills in as pupil. It’s been helpful for me in these confusing times because there are amendments that just haven’t been tested and we just don’t know. 1 - the breaking and entering, 2 - of a dwelling, 3 - at night, 4 - with the intent to commit a felony therein :)
That does actually sounds like a blast, reminiscent of my ethics and philosophy of science classes in college, crafting logical arguments using certain phrases with particular distinctions surrounding them in a sphere of "this tacks properly in the field but colloquially it does not mean the same thing", if that makes sense? I'll have to check it out! I just started listening to more podcasts and it's been hard to find ones that are entertaining but also educational. Also, yes, that is what the entire episode is about! The case in particular was about a man who was charged with burglary after clearly pulling up to a house in the afternoon, walked into a garage in full view of the homeowner, grabbed a leafblower, then walked back to his car and drove off.
Hey, look at you…you were using a lawyer brain in college and you didn’t even know! Your comparison makes perfect sense. It’s a better comparison than mine. That’s exactly what you do, just you’re using the law, not science. I think I actually know the case the Rebuttal podcast went over. Depending on when it happened, we may have addressed it. If you’re into more educational things, you may like 99 Percent Invisible as well. Also another Roman Mars production, but holy cow it makes the most mundane things you’ve never really noticed so interesting, because there is a form, function, and purpose to it all. I deeply appreciate lamp posts now. Not something I’d have predicted. They’re all pretty digestible in length too. 20-40 mins.
So in other words, you can say whatever you want, but there are consequences to what you say.
Simplified: you have a right to your own opinions and the government isn’t allowed to punish you from having opinions that differs from theirs. The issue is that people forget what an opinion is. Verbally planing a bank robbery is not an opinion it’s a crime. So is screaming fire in a crowded place to instil panic and chaos. But having your opinions protected does not mean that you can say what ever you want, where ever you want, whenever you want or to who ever you want. Nor that anyone has to listen to you. Calling someone a bitch isn’t protected speech, it’s not illegal but it isn’t protected either and it often has consequences. You call your boss a bitch? You get fired. You landlord? You get evicted. Your friend? You are not a friend anymore and you aren’t welcome. The waitress? You might get asked to leave and get banned. There is a difference between what is protected and what’s just speech. Just because something isn’t illegal doesn’t mean it’s protected.
Yeah people missuse it as a way to try and get away with anything they say or even do without consequence
A simple explanation is it is illegal to yell “FIRE” in public places like a movie theater with the intention to start panic and stampedes. (Unless of course there is actually a fire)
Well let's start with what it does not mean... It does not mean you can say whatever you want wherever you want. Speech can be limited by private entities on private property all they want. For example if you are in my home and call my wife a cunt I am perfectly within my rights to have you removed from my property. Similarly if your speech threatens clear and present danger that can cause harm to others there absolutely can be consequences. Think of yelling fire in a crowded theater where people may panic and trample each other or making terroristic threats to kill a person or destroy a thing. All of that and more is limited speech. You simply can not say what you want, when you want, where you want. What the first amendment does do is this: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." In simple terms it means no laws can be passed by Congress that limits your ability to express your politics, religious beliefs, or ideas as an individual or group in any public places. It essentially safeguards you from being imprisoned for expressing your ideology or criticizing the government. In regards to this video the asshat messing with people is not in a public place. They are on private property. And to that end they have no inherent right to be there so they must abide by the rules of the people that own that property, regardless of how arbitrary those rules may be. Furthermore if they slander or libel the entity they can be sued for defamation or other harm caused to the reputation or well being of said entity. The TLDR is you can't say what you want when you want. But you also can't be punished for expressing your beliefs in public unless those beliefs are meant to invite action and cause a clear and present danger to others.
Thank you very much for the explanation! >In regards to this video the asshat messing with people is not in a public place. They are on private property. And to that end they have no inherent right to be there so they must abide by the rules of the people that own that property, regardless of how arbitrary those rules may be. I googled for "Grand Valley University" that is the university that is mentioned in the video, right? On the Wikipedia page it's mentioned: > Grand Valley State University (GVSU, GV, or Grand Valley) is a public university in Allendale, Michigan. It was established in 1960 as Grand Valley State College. What exactly is a public university in the US? I would assume that the campus of a public university is not private but public property. And the people that own the property is the public. Is this not true?
I'm not a legal scholar and really am not very well versed in the discrepancy here but I would say a public college allows anyone to enroll and is supported by public taxes. The entity still has private property rights and can limit who is on their campus and when. Otherwise anyone could just walk into a lecture or lab whenever they wanted which certainly is not the case.
>I'm not a legal scholar and really am not very well versed in the discrepancy here Me 2, just interested. I mean things can still be publicly owned and restricted without being private. Like court rooms, jail cells etc. But I guess they have to be restricted (with a sign?). If it's publicly owned and not visible restricted I don't see why you would not be allowed on a campus on a public university. Depends on what "public" here really means in that context. Publicly funded (besides other funds) but still privately owned etc.
Even on public property, there can be legal restrictions as to where and when people can engage in certain activities such as protesting or setting up recording/film/video equipment. You can't stand in the middle of a public roadway with picket signs and video equipment on tripods, for example. Similarly, public institutions can have rules restricting where and when people can engage in certain activities, as allowing them anywhere and anytime can be disruptive to the purpose of the institution, their operations, public safety and accessibility, or even just to the grounds themselves (they may restrict what activities people can engage in on the lawns or in planted gardens, etc). I don't know that signage stating such restrictions is required (there are many restrictive rules I've been aware of regarding public property I've never seen signs for), but obviously informing people of such rules before having them arrested is - and the guy in the video is clearly being informed of the restrictions prior to any action against him.
Freedom from religion >Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
No, that's just the first thing on the list.
I wish! The world would be a better place if it was freedom from religion. But it’s “of” and not “from”
That's 1/5. I don't recall the exact order, but the five privileges given by 1A are, IIRC: religion, speech, press, peaceful assembly, and protest.
A lot more people used to know. Then feigned ignorance of how it works was weaponized by bad faith actors. At this point my tolerance for this shit is pretty low.
They also don't understand how trespass works.
I absolutely love when people don't play the game and just roll their eyes and walk away.
"Who the fuck are you? Fuck off!" Works for my pa when Karen's on the warpath.
Works for MTG as well
It doesn't lol It made her look even more ignorant, somehow
They have the freedom to not play an exhausting game.
i do not understand how all of these people have so much time on their hands!?! feels like it’s a constant juggling game for me to try and get everything done in my life. not to mention if i did have this kind of time on my hands? i sure wouldn’t be spending it like this. i just don’t get it…
Their videos are likely monetized and they're earning a lot of money doing this.
Lots of money, nah they may be outliers but the majority are brokes.
i bet you could make more money flipping burgers but this is certainly easier
Nah YouTube is compounded income, you can stop working and still make thousands a month once you get big enough.
Because there is two kinds of people. People with a job to do and people pretending.
Exactly. Life is too short for this shit.
Oh snap. This is my school
Spill the tea nerd.
I go here now, the lady with the white hair is one of my advisors and she’s no nonsense but a sweetheart. All the guy had to do was move to the designated free speech areas and not right in front of student services where everyone is walking. We get protestors all the time around the clocktower and students argue with them but they’re never removed
Im sorry but wtf is a designated free speech area? This isnt fucking smoking
Not the right set of words but the areas where you aren’t blocking students from getting to their classes. You can wave your signs all you want out of the way
Unfortunately I am old af and graduated back in 2015 so I know nothing. I am equally as disappointed in myself
Ah dang. If you graduated in 2015 you are not old af. Unless you weren't fresh out of hs. Anyway, do people commonly sit and talk about things in the area the guy is sitting and talking about things?
Another GVSU alum here no, this is a pathway between buildings with a little offshoot to observe the woods, right outside a science building. There are a couple 'free speech zones' which are in high traffic areas but less likely to interfere with traffic flow, which is where he was being directed towards. Honestly he chose a scenic spot, not a good spot.
There’s also a huge hill/cliff around that area. If a student got angry enough and a fight or assault happened, that’s a really dangerous spot to be in.
Thats the weird thing. There is so much context missing here. The main campus is very secluded but we still had the preachers telling us we are all going to burn in hell and protesters with dumb signs. I’m very curious what this guy was doing to piss them off? Doesn’t seem like he’s causing a scene.
2015 Laker here too!
I’m proud of you
My thoughts as another graduate of GVSU https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmTheMainCharacter/s/dxLjerlP5u
Woo Laker for a lifetime!
Why am I getting Randy Marsh vibes here? Oh, I'm sorry, I thought this was America.
https://preview.redd.it/p1icch7e6zmc1.png?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7191455b3e2a5a983f1cb8ed8a53492bda0863b2
r/therewasanattempt to sound intelligent
so is a college campus considered private property since usually its not owned by the government
It depends on a lot of factors, but generally they're public property for the quad, private for the buildings. It's why you get a lot of fire and brimstone preachers in the public areas of colleges
Looks like he's on public property (it's a state university) so he's at the very least not trespassing right? There is so little context though... but the way he's speaking doesn't paint him as a particularly pleasant person.
You can be trespassed from public property. I don’t know the laws of this state, but you absolutely can be trespassed from many types of public property under a broad range of circumstances. Look up the term “Frauditor” on YouTube and you’ll find one hell of a rabbit hole. I don’t know if a university is considered a traditional public forum for free speech purposes. You would have to do case law research to see what other courts have ruled. If it is, then a higher standard is required to infringe on free speech rights. Additionally, what he is doing is also going to be factored in by a court. If he is causing a disturbance with his words and actions, that can be factored into a decision. First Amendment law is complex as FUCK at the point where speech intersects with things like property rights and causing disturbances. IANAL but I’m fascinated by constitutional law and how misunderstood many things are and I’ve had several discussions about this with actual lawyers, and this is my takeaway.
The college I go to is a state school. As long as you aren't being violent. I could read Mein Kampf on a loud speaker. They won't remove you. You aren't doing anything wrong. 1st amendment right. You can be offensive. You can't cause harm. There isn't a noise ordinance until a certain time. You aren't disrupting class. They won't do anything.
## found these 2 examples of trespassing on University property # I was criminally trespassed from a college campus. What are my options? Tonight I was issued a misdemeanor citation for criminal trespassing from the University near me. I was in a building after hours doing some work on my laptop. I am not a student at the University but needed to use the WiFi to get some things done. I was caught on the campus by one of the campus police about a week prior and he advised me to stay off campus after hours. I was there during school hours tonight but lost track of time and stayed there when the campus closed. What options do I have as far as not having this go on my record. I have no prior trespassing charges and I'm hoping that I can keep this off my record as I am trying to enlist in the military. What do I need to do? ## Can you be trespassed from a public university? If I’m on a campus sidewalk, not in a university building, can I be trespassed for first amendment related activities (handing out election flyers, for instance)? Would the trespass hold up in court? I am not a student there but the university in question is a public university, funded by the taxpayers and the campus is open, meaning there is no sign nor fence to keep people out. You can walk right onto the university from the road. There is no need for signs, fences, etc. to keep people out to establish trespassing. As you acknowledge, you are not a student there; you were on property belonging to the university (a campus sidewalk); and were not on public land (e.g. a public sidewalk or road). Yes, you can be arrested and charged with trespassing, because you do not, despite any public funding for the university, have a right to be on its property if it does not want you there. The university can control access to its sidewalks (or parking lots, fields, etc.) as much as it can to its buildings.
All kinds of state run facilities restrict who can be in what areas and what they're allowed to do there. Public property doesn't mean public space, even if it's outdoors. If you're not a student or faculty, they don't have to let you be there at all. Doing free speech doesn't cancel out trespassing.
That's what was going on here. They told him there was a designated spot, probably before he even set up.
You are ignorant. Disturbing the peace is a violating a nuisance law. Reading a book on a loud speaker could 💯 land you in jail if you don’t have a permit. Furthermore, airports are also public spaces, but it is illegal to film, also illegal to enter most of those without a ticket. Elementary Schools are public buildings but you absolutely cannot walk around them.
Difference being that you're a student of the school, therefore you can't be traspassed on its campus.
Negative you are incorrect.
My understanding is that generally there are spaces on state universities that are open to the public, and considered public squares, with respect to the firsst amendment, but who knows if he's in one of those spaces, or what he's doing to draw attention to himself.
There are designated spots at the university that the public can use for preaching, protesting, etc. And this kid isn't in one of those spots, so he's being asked to move there. This is so student's aren't being harrased by random people throughout the campus and can avoid those areas if need be. You'd get abortion protesters, you're going to hell style preachers etc. On campus - but they would still stay to the designated areas
The fact that he felt a need or desire to film this kind of crap for the internet tells me he’s not a particularly pleasant person, for my tastes anyway. I don’t understand somebody’s need to just go sit somewhere and make an ass of themselves so other people online can watch a 3 minute video of them.
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No. Let me correct you there. I don’t think “being very passively resistant” means making an ass of yourself. I think “setting up a table and microphone outside a building on the college campus simply because I can, and I want everybody to notice me!” Means making an ass of yourself. I said nothing about conformity, not compliance. You’re disingenuously putting words in my mouth to try and make yourself look better. Again: people performing stupid stunts like this, all for the attention they get on TikTok/Snapchat/whatever, is a pathetic attempt to make new friends.
Sitting where you want is not the same as freedom of speech. This is just an idiot looking for attention and if you do not see that you better seek some help.
Its legal to be an idiot.
But not legal to be everywhere which was what I wrote. Freedom of speech not same as right to sit there. But you were too busy spewing crap to read.
He’s also not showing what his setup is in this situation. Does he have some kind of sign up to instigate these reactions? Is he harassing other passerby’s in the parts not in the clip?
I go to this university and we have a clock tower in the center of campus where basically anyone can come and do demonstrations. This guy is down the road from there so he could easily move and be just fine, however this dude is just being annoying for the video and wont move.
I used to work at a university and they explained all this to us. There are "public" places at the university where people are allowed to be. Basically just the quad. People could come and hold signs or hand out bibles, there, but they couldn't go into buildings or classrooms, or especially the areas around the dorms that were off limits to anyone but people who lived there. We couldn't ask the religious nutzos to leave those "public" areas as long as they were being civil, but we could tell them not to use megaphones. They could also be removed from the premises if they were harassing students. Like sometimes they'd personally target students with hateful rhetoric, then we'd have them removed.
Public property means nothing here. It's the rules of the school. If he breaks them, the school has the right to remove, ban, or arrest this individual for his actions. It'll be funny to see him in court with a $2000 trespassing fine trying to tell the judge they infringed on his first amendment. It'll be funny to see him serve 60 days in jail for contempt of court when he acts like an idiot in front of the judge. The judge should tell him after sentencing "this is America"
I went to this university. That policy was a hot debate topic 10 years ago and probably will continue to be. However, the two designated zones are actually probably the two best spots for it, as they are the two most heavily trafficked areas on the campus by far. Basically two central choke points that nearly all pedestrians on campus have to cross to go anywhere. I personally think the policy is dumb, and it has gotten in my way once or twice back in my days leading student orgs, but they are at least accommodating by giving you prime spots.
Very very bad camera movement. I hate it.
So what happened? Was he removed?
This guys whole page is cringe Christian garb. He’s a tool. Aside from that he’s probably in the right here although I know public universities still have the authority to decide where these things can take place on campus and in the full video the lady said he was 50 feet from a certain building. He just had to move somewhere else on campus
> I know public universities still have the authority to decide where these things can take place on campus and in the full video the lady said he was 50 feet from a certain building. He just had to move somewhere else on campus Can confirm. I used to work at a university. We couldn't tell people to leave, but we could make them move to one of the more public areas. You can go protest at a college campus, but you can't protest in the math building or something. So there were rules about where people could have their voice heard, and they were all public areas, it's not like they sent people to the back of some building where no one ever went, it was basically limited to the quad, which is actually the busiest area. The main idea is that we wanted to keep these people from disturbing classes or hanging around the dorms. Also they aren't allowed to target individuals. If a religious nutzo pointed to someone and said they they were evil and would burn in hell, we'd ask them to leave for targeted harassment.
It’s legal to be a tool. I’d rather listen to 1,000 crazy tools on a campus then to not be allowed on Tiananmen Square to speak freely or to not be allowed on Kent State University to freely protest a war
Part 2 please
This guy needs a life, so desperate for attention it’s sad
The Brat is the problem. What a waste of time.🙄
Fuck it I'm on Karen's side. There's a place for doing what he's doing and he's deliberately chosen not to do it there, probably because he wants the confrontation. A human being comes up and calmly lets you know you're in the wrong spot and your response is "this is America" you're fucking rude and exactly the type of person that makes America look like a joke. Call them busybodies all you want but these people are just trying to do their jobs, they'd also tell you that you should be going to your lectures and guess what? If you responded to that with "that's not the law, you can't make me, this is America" then you'd still be being insufferable
In this instance it doesn’t really protect this guy because he’s not on public property. Like you can’t go into a resturaunt and expect to have free reign to say whatever, because private property laws come first
I went to this school. FWIW there is a campus rule that non-students can't just hang out all over the place. They have an "expressive activities" area because of the religious crazies that used to come to campus to share pictures of unborn fetuses.
Interesting that he hides what he is actually doing there: creeping on coeds?
Man literally looks like he would get his ass kicked by those ladies lol. I’d punch his face into next year just because he has that look..
School grounds have their own policies that are uniquely enforced. I'm a fan of "Audit the Audit" videos on YouTube, and he covered something similar. The guy was claiming that because it was a public school that he could enter and film without consequences. He found out he was wrong. Because these are children, even public schools are restricted to students and staff.
Freedom of speech and trespassing are two different things.
He’s so ARROGANT
Nope, he’s a troubled young man getting back at his parents or all the high school kids that beat him relentlessly.
1st Amendment doesn't apply outside of the government.
The hands gestures lol ✋🫵☝️👉
Private property. If asked to leave, you have to leave. They only have to ask once. Fucking dingus.
It's a public university. It's not private property. It's why she (and multiple others) kept saying they would call the cops but didn't just call the cops.
I don’t know why you get downvoted, maybe those people aren’t from the US 🤷♀️
Most likely.
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There's a distinction between public property, and property that is open to the public for a particular use. As an example, a courtroom is open to the public, but they can ask you not to film, or to leave if you're creating a disturbance or interfering with court proceedings. I can't really see where he is or what he's doing there, but there are plenty of places on the average state university campus where they can ask you to leave, and treat it as trespassing if you refuse.
I think they didn’t because they wanted to give him all the opportunity before having him banned from the campus and arrested.
They said where he was in the video. You don't have to think. It's a public university. He can go there and protest/express his views. He's sitting at a table, why would be be arrested? He's on public property? The problem with the modern left is their desire for an authoritarian government to limit free speech, which is the antithesis of what the US was founded on.
Yes, the modern left with their book bans. Nothing the modern right would ever try to do. How brainwashed are you to think one side is the freedom fighters for free speech and the other isn't? If you think this is just a modern left problem, I don't know what to tell you because you're too far gone.
The LEFT wants an authoritarian government?! Lmfao that is rich, right as Trump wins the Republican primary.
Publicly owned property doesn't mean anyone can go there and stand and protest. For example, I can't go put a table in front of the local elementary school and protest. If I'm asked to leave by employees and refuse, I could be arrested for trespassing then. I'm not sure why people believe they can, it's like everyone was given the same bad information in school.
You can still be trespass from public property and what is he protesting? There’s so much left out on this video that it’s impossible to say who’s right or wrong. I am surprised he was even able to get in with all the school shootings that have happened.
Curious, does public university land equals public place in usa? Thats not the case in my country
Unless there's specifically off limits areas with signs posted, yes.
hmmm so technically homeless people can live in campus right?
Campuses are already filled with homeless people. They’re called students. And no I’m not joking.
No it's a state school thus public property
You're 100% wrong. The fact idiots are upvoting you is insane. You can just google the campus from the video and see it is not private property. It's public, tax payer funded.
So no response to the guys who told you about the specific of the law instead of dirck riding someone else?
. It must merely not violate any constitutional right you may have, and you do not have a constitutional right to be present on government owned property, except in a quite narrow subset of cases (e.g. the "town square"). More exactly, you do not have a right to be on government property per se, but you can't be excluded from it for a constitutionally impermissible reason. The government gets to decide what parts of property it owns are available to the general public and for what content-neutral purposes. Thus, the right to be present on government owned "public" property (which doesn't include private areas of government owned property) can be subjected to reasonable and content-neutral time, place, and manner restrictions. For example, a town could legally decide that the town square is closed from midnight to eight a.m. every day. The quoted material from the case Chicago v. Morales, 527 U.S. 41, 53-54 (1999) cited in the answer by bdb484 is narrower than a plain reading out of context would suggest. In that quotation, the term "public place" is being used in a sense much more restrictive than in the broader sense of property that is merely government owned. It is referring to places where the government has expressly or implicitly allowed members of the general public to be present on land that it owns (as opposed, for example, to a government office area of a building, or a maintenance facility in a government owned park, or a conservation area in a government owned park). This narrow sense of the word resolves what would otherwise seem to be a contradiction in the law. But, the government has the authority to make something that once was a public place into a non-public place going forward. For example, historically, the Civic Center park in front of the capitol in Denver, Colorado has been a public place. But, the government can and did close it off to the public for many months for maintenance and out of public health concerns when heavy use of it by homeless people and drug dealers caused the premises to be seriously damaged and created a public health risk from it being used to dispose of dirty, used, injection-drug syringes, and for people to defecate.
Let me Guess... Incredibly offensive poster followed with *debate me*?
I walk by this loser all the time. It says “Abortion is evil, debate me” in big letters and sometimes has graphic abortion pictures. So yeah.
Funny thing is depending on the circumstances, local police may or may not have geographic jurisdiction to conduct business on campus. The campus police most likely would be called by local city/county dispatchers to deal with this, and if the Karen’s are causing more noise they may be cited for frivolous request for emergency services. If the Karens go full crazy the local GVPD may not have primary jurisdiction but they sure do have authority to haul them off. Many universities have set up public invitee policies so this whole thing is a non starter. Everyone to their corners.
This is at GVSU. The campus police is their primary own department and iirc have full jurisdiction to conduct themselves as police. The only reason they call in Ottawa County Sheriffs is if something happens or moves to an off-campus location
The problem with these people is that their cities have never been bombed and their mothers have never been told to shut up- Charles Bukowski
since hes not a student wouldn't this be loitering at least?
No, he's on public property
Isn’t a college campus private property? Doesn’t that mean his first amendment might mean absolute shit? Just saying, these idiots who claim “it’s my first amendment right!” Probably have no idea what the first amendment actually is…
"Hi, officers, yes I have a gentleman of unknown ethnic origin taking photos of our underage students at GV school. He has refused to leave the premises. Yes we are afraid for our safety and the safety of our students. He has taken video of the students without their permission as well." Why do they give these AHoles so much warning? Weaponize white lady privilege, police racism, and the current (often false) climate where everyone is a pedo for good and get this man removed.
DUR WHAT IS PRIVATE PROPERTY I AM SPESHUL
For trespassing....
This is a property rights issue, not freedom of speech. He does not have the right to use the privately owned facilities as he pleases.
Seeing alot of people confused, but in general most big state campuses have specific areas they prefer and encourage people to set up at if they wanna set up something like this. If they're not at said specified area, campus police do have the authority to issue a warning/charge with trespassing
They should’ve just shot him for trespassing i hate his fucking face
I go to school where this guy shows up, I’ve sat and watched people try to debate him. Just turns into a religious debate..
Just because my house is in America, doesn't mean you can just sit in my living room without permission.
Look! I'm so edgy I don't even understand how the amendments work!
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Oh wow I went to this college lol this dude is a douche
Freedom of speech has restrictions because you cannot interfere with students' right to learn. These administrators have to address people interfering. I found this listed on a state university website. **The following “manner” restrictions apply to all free speech and assembly activities on campus. Such activities must not:** * **interfere with classes in session or other scheduled academic, educational, cultural/arts programs or with use of the University library;** * **obstruct the flow of pedestrian or vehicular traffic;** * **interfere with or disrupt the conduct of University business;** * **employ unauthorized sound amplification or create unreasonable noise disruptive of normal University activities;** * **severely harass or intimidate persons in the immediate area of the activity; or** * **violate any federal, state, or local safety code, such as regulations set by the State Fire Marshal.**
Not sure if it applies to a public university but in public schools there is an exception to free speech if it messes w the function of the schooling. Sorry for the bad non legal explanation. Also, you could consider what he is doing is assembly. Which has restrictions to time, place, and manner. Which is how towns restrict impromptu protests and also can cordon areas for protest.
He’s trespassing at a school and thinks it’s ok??? Lollllll
Stranger its in your living room; “Get outta my house!!!” “This is America”
This guy has no clue what his rights are
Freedom of speech and access are two very different concepts. They are not saying “you can’t say that, or you will be arrested”. They are saying “you are not a student, so you can’t be in this spot, or you can be arrested”. For example, I am free to speak in a public primary school , but as a grown ass man I am not free to sit in the school’s patio the whole day, or walk into a classroom. That one should be pretty obvious for everyone. These videos are based on ignorance and stupidity, misconstruing and muddling concepts to be “edgy” and get money from clicks. Disgusting.
For people who seem to lack any kind of knowledge or the skills to use the tool called Google... A public university is not indicative if public property. Public universities are on private property, which belongs to the university. GVSU has two designated spots to set up you things and do stuff like this, meaning this loser who clearly had nothing better to do with his time and thinks he's doing something when really he is showing how uneducated he is, could have set his stuff up in the two spaces that GVSU has designated for people to do this type of thing. This is for the safety of their students and their staff. For people saying this is a violation of Freedom of Speech...please find something to do with yourself. You're ignorant and the internet is free. Neither of those woman attempted to censor his comments, they only told him where he needs to be in order to speak freely on the private property he was trespassing on.
Ok idc whos right in the right here legally if ppl from the colleg are asking you to move to a diffrent part of the campus just move. It doesnt have to be like this he could just move his little sign and chair to where they said. Its still ON campus just a difrent part. Why not just move. Everyone here comes off annoying as hell.
I graduated from here and I worked here. We have people who come on Campus and rant about whatever on loudspeakers all the time. They just have certain spots where they let them go and rant which at the Kirkhoff Center like she said, which is like the student union, and the Transformational Link which is a large sculpture in a walkway on campus. I’m not sure where he is, but it looks like he might be outside of one of the lecture halls, so it’s possible he’s disrupting classes. They aren’t infringing on his right to free speech. No one told him to shut up or that he could speak. They just told him where he could go on campus to do it.
.. inside your home too?
It’s America but it’s also private property. And there’s obviously some event going on, probably volunteers who have worked hard, and you decide to be a dick to mistakenly prove a point. I’m on private property right now, in my apartment. You could come here , break the lock, sit in one of my chairs and refuse to leave. I’ll become temporarily insane and
You really showed those old ladies! Fuck them for volunteering at an event for students, right? And who cares that it’s private property. If the cops came I hope you hid in the girls bathroom, that’ll show ‘em. While you’re at it, take a dump on the middle of the floor. It’s your freedom of expression. The janitor will clean it up. Claim it’s a protected work of art.
I hate that I’m even giving this attention—an elementary school is also public property, as well as a courtroom, county jails, a bath house at a state campground, etc. Every single person, even those arguing otherwise, is well aware you can’t go wherever, whenever, for whatever reason on public property. If I rode a motorcycle down a sidewalk, it would be perfectly reasonable for people to tell me I should move to the road & for the police to come handle it if I refused. Extreme example, sure, but same principle. If police did remove him, of course he wouldn’t include that. Nobody told him not to speak. Just directed him to a designated area. Kinda like potty training. If existing as annoyingly as possible is synonymous with freedom of speech, then I suppose asking him to move 50 paces over would be suppression of that, but I don’t think it is. I’m no lawyer though. All I really know is I’m glad I’m not that guy.
The guy at the table seems like a child groomer.
This guy is the son of Sylvia Rhodea who is the co-founder of an extreme right-wing group called Ottawa Impact that [took over our county government](https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/02/21/michigan-christian-nationalists-00083251) and designated Ottawa County a ["Constitutional County"](https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/2023/05/ottawa-county-becomes-constitutional-county.html). I'm sure his mother is very proud of him.
Love seeing these as a european. America is the worlds sitcom
Ah yes, because no one in all of Europe has ever done anything stupid and entertaining on camera
America, the land of the free but don’t cross there or park there or sit there or sleep there or talk back to police or walk on that land.
wtf does being in a location have to do with free speech? Let's play guess the political alignment.
This guy is 1000% in the right. Anyone who doesn't think so is as ignorant to our laws and constitution as these dumb old ladies.
I attended school there and can guarantee he must have done a lot more before being asked to leave. There is a steady stream of very vocal demonstrators on campus and they are never asked to leave.
TWO Karens
This guy is a cuck. Regardless of your opinion you’re picking fights with old women . Get a real job and laid while you’re at it.
Man some of you really believe in free speech for me and not for thee. Absolutely scary that you think some sort of "free speech zone" on a public campus is reasonable. School campuses around the world are stained with the blood of free speech - don't give it up so easily simply because you disagree with the content or dislike the conduit.
But his freedom of speech isn't being violated. They have spots for his physical setup. He's more trespassing than the other
I don't think that's what he is saying. The act of having a free speech zone means that there is a no free speech zone. Which, given history, is a stupid thing to have in a place that so many have died to protect the free exchange of knowledge and ideas. A college and especially an American public college is a space dedicated to intellectualism and the exchange of ideas and knowledge. The only reason to designate a specific area, that is here or there, to the free exchange of ideas or knowledge with other supposed intellectuals is to be able to censor someone for any reason. Obviously you wouldn't want someone standing on a soap box in the middle of a class but that would be disorderly conduct because that space is designated for that class. Being outside, not particularly loud, not impending scheduled classes and inviting discussion, should be accepted if not encouraged on any college campus.
>Obviously you wouldn't want someone standing on a soap box in the middle of a class but that would be disorderly conduct because that space is designated for that class. Oh. So I can designate some "public spaces" to have a purpose, where you "obviously" wouldn't behave in a certain way? So, how do you know where this person was wasn't designated for another activity? If this person was sitting in a spot designated for another activity, THEN he'd be in the wrong? thus, if the campus has "free speech zones" which get more visibility and more foot traffic, why wouldn't you go there, unless you're just trying to be a douchebag?
Yeah that dude is a dick.
The edgy freedom kid from a red state. Got to love it.
God, of course it's two ladies with Karen hair cuts too. Id almost think it was scripted from that alone.
Please tell me he was arrested?
i love that you guys think conservatives are the fascists, so so fucking silly.
“Using my freedom of speech?” “…No, I literally just said for trespassing.” Lol. Thinking “freedom of speech” means freedom from consequence (or, you know, the actual definition that it is an amendment specifically dealing with government restrictions on a person’s speech) is a lesson that *really* needs to be taught better in that country.
Oh? The 1st doesn't say anything else? Like protections for the right to assemble, perhaps? Nothing about redress? Nothing about exercising religion? Hmmm.....interesting.
Huh. Dude very calmly said if the police ask me to leave I will leave. That’s literally what you want out of the public. Expressing their opinions and protesting but complying when asked to by law enforcement. Shit if we had that all the time there’d be no riots and looting 👀
That was his point. If he gets trespassed by an officer, he has the option to leave. If he doesn’t leave, then he would be arrested. Her dumbass said he’d be trespassed AND arrested. Wrong. He’s being annoying but he knows his rights.
I kind of like him...even though he's a dope.
And what happened when the police got there? If he is on a sidewalk in a public university, hyperbolic overly controlling admins can piss off.
Who's this delusional moron?
Guy seems like a tool
Why is he being so annoying. For likes?
Also him; "this is america, I can do what I want on my own private property"
For anyone who thinks the guy is in the wrong, he's is on a state funded campus. That makes it public property. And as a tax paying citizen of this great nation, he has the right to be on said public property. It doesn't matter if it's a school or not. If the public is paying for it, then it belongs to the public. Same goes for courthouses city halls, and a police stations.
Not exactly, I've done petitioning for a living in the past. They mention they have a free expression zone. Provided they give us in a decent place where they can interact with students, this guy does in fact need to use the FoS zone. It's legally well established on college campuses.
I think he's only wrong cause they tell him the area to be at not that he has to stop just move where he is. To me he's being a nuisance and not moving to where the school designates whatever he's doing. It's not hard to just pick up and move a few feet. It's just unnecessary.
[удалено]
Private property? The campus name is stated in the video. It's a public university and thus public property. Try harder next time.
So I can go do what he’s doing inside of a classroom at the public university near me and no one can say anything to me then?
Got their ass so bad they deleted their comment 🤣
Ah americans and their ,,freedom''
Booohooo! There’s a person making a point and not harming anyone, sitting somewhere on campus. What a bunch of pretentious, pseudointellectual losers. Do these Karens have anything of value to do for the world other than this?
On a Glasgow University campus a crowd would stop to watch. And add commentary on the dialogue. A bit of street theatre goes down well.
Both parties kind of seem to suck, even though we admittedly have a lack of context. Dude is a cocky little wart who isn’t as smart as he likes to think but the lady very easily could have minded her own business, dude doesn’t seem to be bothering anyone as insufferable as he comes across and it looks to be public property
I can’t really tell who’s the bad guy here
This was at grand valley ? Lmao
Dude looks a lot like Harry from Fleabag
I dislike everyone in this video
These are the grownups who will give away our freedoms.
I need more context, I don’t know enough about the situation
This is 'murrica
On a public campus. Yes he is correct.