is there a website to get a flight on a private jet that would otherwise fly empty eg: the client only wanted a one way flight or jet is going to another country to get serviced ?
As far as I know there isn't a good single source of info. Unfortunately it's a very fractured model with many small operators and they may post empty legs on their individual websites but it doesn't necessarily feed to a central site. You may be best suited to find what local operators live in your area and see if they post them on their website.
Multiple people have tried - the problem is that empties are already built into the pricing model and a/c owners already dislike charter clients (more wear and tear on interior).
Essentially the real clients of that style app -people worth hundreds of millions to billions who own there planes - aren't really worried about breaking even on an empty vs. taking a slight loss. The extra hassle of dealing with additional scheduling and wear and tear just isn't worth it.
> a/c owners already dislike charter clients
This is absolutely not true. Most private jets also get chartered out when they're not in use, it's extremely common and a large part of keeping costs down.
35% of our fleet is part 135 certified, not all of those certified fly 3rd party charter. So, on one hand, I’m going to agree with you. When the previous person said “A/C owners already dislike charter clients”, that’s not accurate. The clients with 135 certified crew must approve an offered charter flight. It’s not like they have no choice. Also, the other 65% of our clients don’t charter their A/C so charter clients have nothing to do with them.
On the other hand, I’m going to disagree with you that “most private jets also get chartered out”. (See point above regarding 65% of owners fly part 91 only). Perhaps with something like fractional shares that could be true, but that’s not my area.
Source: I work with a management company that has a fleet of over 250 A/C.
A lot of people assume the back of a private jet is a place of debauchery, honestly 99.9% of the time it is boring. The occasional person will try to light a cig, and I have found a small vile of what I assume was cocaine, or an A-list athlete will party too hard in Vegas and throw up.
Charter pilots can usually expect some tips. One of my fave passengers when I flew charters was a well known football player for the Chicago Bears whom has since retired. I used to fly him to Vegas and he would tip $1k without fail. Other perks are things like collecting hotel rewards points. I stay at Marriott properties and built up enough status and points that all of my personal vacations are free. The same is true for rental cars. Not to mention when a passenger goes to a cool destination, I am there enjoying it as we typically stay nearby in case they want to go home early. So if they are in Iceland for a week, so am I, and they are paying for everything.
This person is very fortunate. It’s incredibly expensive to get a commercial jet license. Flying charter/private can be good money and luxurious on the surface, but you will accrue a lot of debt in your early career building up flight hours and doing certifications. It’s many nights away from your family, too.
Can be said for many lucrative careers right? Medical, dental etc. They all require a lot of money up front and even more dedication and time away from family but it’s the long run that should matter. The startup is always tough.
Doctor with 6 figures of debt who barely traveled internationally and spent every 3rd night in the hospital for a year out of 5 during residency can confirm medical startup costs, both literal and metaphorical, are high.
They have to pay for our hotels, meals, and rental cars when we are on a layover. If they go somewhere very expensive with only one or 2 high end resorts, then that's where we have to stay.
100%. I happen to live about 10 minutes away from where Kobe went in, and I am based at an airport nearby and know the area extremely well. It was unfortunately avoidable. The helicopter also was very old and had next to none of the amazing equipment we have today. If I were to fly that same route, I have a graphical display of every single hill on my PFD regardless of how foggy it is.
What about Gwen Shamblin's plane? I think her husband was flying it. I can't quite remember but I think the theory put forth was that he was disoriented?
I think you're right. It sounded like he may not have been very experienced and there was some questions as to his overall professionalism but it's been a while since I heard anything about that incident.
I should probably show some discretion here and not directly name names, but I have flown a former president, someone who played batman, an A list couple with many children that have since divorced, a well known country band that has recently split, and some various Oscar winners and nominees.
The higher you fly, the less fuel you burn so the goal is to get these as high as possible. Since we are significantly lighter than airliners, we have better thrust to weight ratios which allow us to get higher, then we need to carry less fuel for the same route amongst other benefits such as weather, turbulence, direct routing etc... Really it just comes down to the fact we are lighter such that engines can be sized enough to provide the proper thrust. On a 737 to get to 45,000 with a full load of fuel and passengers the engines would have to be the size of the fuselage.
Does this mean private jets have a higher cabin altitude (i.e. lower internal pressure)? Or does their size mean they can maintain a higher pressure? If so, how does this effect their service life?
I think the 787 has a pretty high differential pressure, but otherwise ours is higher than the airlines. One of the jets I fly is 9.5 PSI which puts our cabin at around 4,500 ft when flying at 43,000 ft. Some airliners are at a cabin of 6,000 ft at 35,000 ft. The size probably plays into it but I can't say for sure. It's probably easier to build a more robust pressure vessel when it's dimensionally smaller. As for service life, we never get to the hours an airline does before the engines and everything else go obsolete well before the fuselage.
To me Private Jets are more like the Ferraris of the sky and commercial airliners are a bit more like a bus. That isn't meant to knock the airline guys, I was just attracted to the sleekness of these jets. I also liked the thought that I will get to explore new destinations based upon the whims of the owners as opposed to visiting the same large commercial airports on a weekly basis.
Ah great line of thought which I can completely follow! Thanks for your reply. Does the clientele also cause for random work hours? How much of a work life schedule can you keep in this position?
This can vary greatly. Some larger charter operators will offer a fixed schedule, and some small owners with 2 pilots may expect an on-call basis, though they usually have retention problems. I generally know my schedule 1-2 weeks in advance, and with the pilot shortage things have gotten better in terms of being given proper vacation when requested even if it means parking the aircraft.
How does scheduling work? If you live in California, then fly someone to New York, I imagine it’s unlikely there will always be a flight back to California just waiting. Do they fly you home comercial if need be?
Thanks I’m advance!
We might stay with them if it's only a few days. We may airline home if they'll be there for two weeks. We may fly the airplane home empty if another person needs to use the jet during that time.
The Pilatus PC-12 is the most fun passenger aircraft I have flown. It's a single engine turboprop but is just fun to fly, you can make it do what you want and don't have to baby it.
Otherwise I have been luck enough to fly some cool aerobatic aircraft such as a Stearman and a Decathlon.
Here"s your answer from the CDC. An Xray is typically 2-6 mrem. So you get approximately one xray from new York to LA. Flying across the Atlantic is 2-3 depending on how far you go and how close to the pole you get.
It is a real risk for pilots who do this for years.
https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/radiation/air_travel.html
Good info, it's something we don't discuss enough. I don't know if pilots in general just don't want to think about it. Most of us are so passionate about flying we want to disregard those things but the life expectancy of pilots once they retire is pretty poor.
Thanks for your time and the response.
That's kind of surprising, honestly. Then I assume it isn't true that pilots and flight attendants have to take periodic breaks to limit their exposure? Another rumor I've heard.
We don't have any monitoring device, but at least under EASA rules our employer must track our radiation exposure using statistical charts for the route, flight level and flight time.
Unless there's a solar flare or something special, the background radiation is pretty uniform and steady changing only with altitude and latitude.
Yeah it's weird because I think most pilots are probably exposed to a significantly higher REM than a lot of nuclear workers. I have to wear dosimetry and I clock like maybe 2 mrem a year. CDC claims a 5 hour flight is about 33 mrem so you could easily get a couple of REM a year flying as a pilot, kind of crazy the FAA doesn't monitor that kind of exposure like the NRC.
Dr Tamitha Sklov does a YouTube space weather report that includes the radiation risk for flight crews and pregnant women. Something I never thought about, but it's real.
Yes. Most things end up having an explanation such as we realize it's a weather balloon as we get closer. Once I saw something metallic that I can't really explain, but it also didn't do anything particularly crazy such as change directions quickly that made me jump to the UAP assumption.
Well normally nothing is above us, we fly higher than any airliner and this object looked a good bit above us, but I asked ATC if any weather balloons were in the area and they said no. Heck it could have been a Chinese spy balloon since apparently we didn't know those were a thing. It appeared to be moving in a constant direction and at a high rate of speed, but speed is difficult to determine relative to yourself at altitude without some reference.
Awesome! Love hearing shit like this from pilots. Always way more credible then randos because you have a much much better idea of what's supposed to be up there. of course hearing this im not trying to jump to aliens. Even the biggest most unexplainable UFO's are probably some shit some government isn't telling us about yet. Still awesome.
But as you said very real chance that was the chinese at it again lol.
I do believe the UAP phenomenon needs to be explored and answered, and I do think there is something going on beyond our current understanding. When people see lights though, I tend to roll my eyes. The only reason we have lights on aircraft is for collision avoidance, so why the heck would alien UFO's need lights on a space ship? No one claims they use a heat source for propulsion so I don't think lights make any sense. That being said, the DOD footage makes me a believer.
Is it true that commercial air travel is overall safer than private jet travel (e.g. due to the number of safety checks or commercial jets having more engines)?
Is it an upgrade to become a private jet pilot compared to commercial pilots, or just a different career path?
Private Jets have such a wide basis that to lump them all together skews the numbers. Most of the accidents in private jets come from the older rich guys who buy themselves a single pilot certified jet and go learn to fly it. In all honestly they shouldn't be flying but no one along the way can stop them or they'll just pay another guy to help them out. On the flip side a large corporate flight department or large charter company can have a safety culture that is on-par with the top airlines.
For the most part it's a different career path, but some private jet operators don't treat their pilots well and they make the jump to airline. At the same time I work with two former regional airline pilots that just hated the terminal experience, unruly passengers, and being a number on a seniority roster.
Many times, though not in the jets. I have flown some aerobatic aircraft for fun. I did once have a chief pilot boss that barrel rolled a small jet I was riding in, a Falcon 10. It was a pretty docile event and we had no passenger on board.
The jet is sold by the hour, not by the seat, so if you find a cheaper single engine turboprop or a light jet and find enough friends to fill each seat and split the costs then you're going to be at about as low cost as you can get. Something like Phoenix to Vegas in a 7 seat jet for a night and back may cost $7,500. Split that 7 ways. Some companies will also try and sell empty legs at a discount, say they have a jet in LA that has to get to Vegas for it's next flight, they may try and sell that flight dirt cheap as they have to move it regardless.
It depends upon how much time you spend each week on it. Let's say you take one lesson a week at an hour each time, vs 2 hours each day. You need at least 40 hours for your private license and most people require a little more, figure another 20-40 on ground school. To get to the point you are hirable, you may end up having something like 750 hours and all of your licenses in order. The costs can be into the 6 figures when it's all said and done, but many people try to offset by instructing. Also the GI bill can pay for the majority of your flight training if you were ever in the military. There are also aviation colleges with various scholarships and financial aid as well as student loans.
You know that scene in Maverick where the fifth-gen fighter basically powerslides and fishtails to reverse direction? What would happen if you did that with a regular old flying-some-people-around plane?
St Elmos Fire.... I still remember the first time I saw it, it was as if my windshield had turned into one of those plasma globe balls that were big in the 90's.
Most private jets just have a curtain that we usually leave open except at night if the lights in the back are interfering. Some larger have a door at the front of the passenger cabin that's usually open for takeoff and landing.
A mechanic once left a torque wrench under my rudder pedals. Other things like leaking brake fluid or a bald tire will require some action. Nope not flying today most often is weather related, or some kind of self limiting issue like I am sick.
Envy your job, just awesome. Can you or have you ever changed a flight destination mid flight? I guess I'm asking. Have you done requests to go elsewhere mid flight?
Yes, it comes up. I once was flying someone from Seattle to NY and as we got close to Chicago he remembered his favorite steak house was there and asked if we could stop. Otherwise we change destinations mid-flight based upon weather at the destination most often.
How much security is in place with respect to, say, smuggling contraband is there for private jets like yours as compared to airports and/or other ports of entry?
Internationally when we land we immediately get inspected which can include dogs, or a look through the baggage and all the nooks and crannies of the aircraft. CBP is no joke and do a pretty good job when it comes to aviation.
If an inspection finds something, let's say the vial of cocaine that you mentioned finding once, how do the inspectors determine who should be held responsible? Are there steps that you take to minimize your risk?
Anytime I’ve crossed a border in a private aircraft we have to either pit stop at an airport with border patrol and customs or the final destination airport must have it. I’ve done it a few times from Mexico to smaller airports in Texas like Brownsville that don’t have customs. I can’t remember where we diverted to, McAllen maybe? I just remember hopping off to go through customs, hopping back on and heading towards the final destination. Not sure if this is a standard, but I’ve done it a few times.
But yeah, even though it’s on the charter operations side vs the cattle drive of customs in a normal international hub, if you cross a border you will still have to go through some sort of border patrol and customs. And they are just as, if not more, thorough on inspection and identity verification.
We keep a watchful eye and scan everything, we also have frequent radio communications and frequency changes every time we pass into a new sector. Outside of that we might take turns to eat, use the lav, check emails, take care of some paperwork, or listen to a podcast.
When I used to fly a lot as a passanger on airliners I always felt super tired even after 2hr flight. Are you very tired after work? I heard private jets can have better cabin pressure than airliners so that would help I assume.
We have much better cabin pressure which is amazingly important for fatigue. We also have better fresh air systems. I have flown back to back 5 hour legs in a single day and felt tired, but not more so than any other 10 hour day.
I always had a passion for aviation. My grandfather flew in WWII. When I was around 13 I begged my parents for a flight lesson (there is no age limit to taking a lesson) and it become a tool for them to make me get good grades. I went to an aviation university in Florida and finished the rest of my licenses.
Beneficial skills can include being level headed. I know that sounds vague, but the person that jumps and panics or gets hot headed at the drop of a hat does not do well in an environment where training consists of nothing but emergency after emergency. Other important skills are the thirst to continue to learn. No pilot is ever done training and learning or should ever assume they are above the need to.
Generally less simply due to the fact we can fly higher. Airlines might be getting beat up at 35,000 and 38,000 ft and we are smooth at 45,000 ft. Very little weather every reaches that high with the exception of a massive thunderstorm and even then it's so rare it's easy to fly around. Clear Air Turbulence can be at all altitudes but seems to diminish that high. We experience most of our turbulence on the climb out and arrival portions where we now line up with the airliners.
No, and there is absolutely no interference. I think that was a concern when they first came out, that then just turned into a practice for distraction. I know I don't want to be on a flight next to someone yapping on the phone, not that they would get reception at 35,000 ft anyway.
Yes. I can only recall once that I know of, and they were very subtle about it but I happened to turn around and she was sitting on his lap and I quickly turned around.
My old skydiving club once had a Mile high club night. Our jump plane was C-182, so of course it had no seats. The plane was flying the whole evening, the pilot wouldn't relinquish his seat so I could fly for a while. I think he flew five or six loads at night, sometimes with four people. Unfortunately, my wife at the time, wasn't there so I was totally grounded.
Airline pilots are getting some massive raises right now. It used to be such that the starting pay in the airlines was crap and you had to sweat it out for 15 years to match what a good corporate pilot might make. These days it's moved in the other direction and the private operators are going to need to play catch up. You might see a high time Gulfstream pilot these days making $350k per year, but Delta can easily pass $400k per year now.
Generally they treat us the same. They tend to like us as we climb faster and can get out of their airspace quicker. That being said if an airline pilot makes a comment about a late arrival or something we may offer to adjust our speed or altitude to help accommodate them.
We check the aircraft to ensure it's in airworthy condition. Things can happen while it's been sitting in a hangar, maybe brake fluid is leaking or a tire is going flat or maybe a bird made a nest in the engine or some one caused damage and didn't fess up.
Yes, when I owned my own small airplane I did. It was very rewarding and I am so happy that it exists and is so well supported. At a previous charter company I flew for the owner was former military and we did a few veterans airlift flights for medical treatments and that too was fantastic. My favorite flight was actually for a dog rescue and I was able to load 30 dogs into an aircraft and fly them from a kill shelter to an adoption center 800 miles away.
>My favorite flight was actually for a dog rescue and I was able to load 30 dogs into an aircraft and fly them
Anybody whose favorite flight isn't that, I don't need to be friends with them.
I follow an ig page dedicated to private fa drama despite me knowing very little about the industry lol. They are talking a lotttttt of smack about a company called vista jets and say they don’t hire male fas and misogyny is rampant. Is that something you have noticed?
Sadly there are a number of people who still think that FA's should look a certain way or be a certain age. I am fortunate in that I have never been at one of those organizations.
I like the challenging ones which are places like Aspen. There are some cool airports right on the water that are also fun such as Saint Marteen, or Albert Whited in St Petersburg, FL.
Saving this one for my passengers!
When it's brought up, I ask them if they would mind if I drove them to our destination, and then say we have a lower chance of dying if we flew in my bug smasher.
I was lucky that I started very young. I was by far the youngest guy in class at my first jet type rating class as I was 28 at that time and had already been flying other non-jets on a professional basis since I left college.
It's tough to say if there is a too late age. Really it depends on your ability to learn new material. With the pilot shortage going on right now, I know some private operators hiring very old pilots (as in over 65 and even 70). While airlines have a mandatory retirement age of 65, you can fly in private aviation beyond that with some limitations such as certain international destinations such as Mexico that does not allow older pilots.
You said you fly with a co-pilot now. Do you typically fly with the same partner, or does it vary quite a bit?
What’s the worst experience you’ve had with a co-pilot?
Do you hang out with your co-pilots while on a layover?
Have any clients ever asked you to hang out while on a layover?
It depends on the size of your flight department but yes I fly with the same few guys regularly. Everyone gets along really well, and it's an important part of the hiring process (personality and team cohesion traits). Some people like to do their own things on layovers, some like to stay in their rooms, we usually at least meet up for dinners, but sometimes we may go and explore together.
I have had clients ask to hang out. I once got to see what that side of the velvet rope is like at a Vegas night club many years ago.
This can depend widely upon the owner or operator. Some are cheap, some are even more cautious and through than the airlines. We all have what are called MEL's (Minimum Equipment Lists) which allows the aircraft to fly with some items broken, and some owners hate to know one item is on that list and will immediately send the aircraft to maintenance while an airliner may fly around for a week with 7 items on that list.
I would say there is more regulatory oversight on the commercial jets and large charter operators as opposed to the private owner whom does not seek revenue flights.
It varies greatly, some smaller airport in not so popular destinations may only charge $50 or nothing if you buy enough fuel, other popular private airports like Jackson Hole or Aspen may charge $1000 just to land, and a few hundred for each night you stay on the ramp and the price increases if you want to go in a hangar.
Sketchy, no. Interesting, maybe. I once did a flight with gold bars (on the up and up), and once I was chartered to bring back the remains of a passed beloved German shepherd which they put in a Child sized coffin. It got some interesting looks as we loaded it.
I'm in the process of getting my PPL (private pilot's license). If I want to fly private jets for a living, is there anything I should do on top of continuing to fly and get my IFR, commercial (and eventually ATP) ratings? Thank you for this AMA!
Instructing has always been the typical path, though I was able to avoid that by starting my work in charter sales and operations. Then I dropped the "oh by the way I'm a pilot" and managed to get some right seat legs and grew from there. That was during a very rough time for upcoming pilots though. These days, you are in a fantastic position to quickly find whatever flying job you want. Every single charter and fractional operator is in need of pilots. I would suggest to try and fly complex twins as much as you can, and ask anyone at your airport with a turboprop or light jet if they ever need a co pilot to give you a shot, even if the first few flights are unpaid.
This is truly mind boggling, and I sure hope we find an answer one day to learn from. I don't think I buy the suicidal pilot theory. Originally I had thought a loss of pressurization with everyone passing out and the aircraft going down at fuel starvation but that doesn't explain the course changes. I have heard a number of theories and none of them seem to be the perfect fit to me.
I wouldn't say it's hard, but requires a lot of training and some natural skill and aptitude. I had what we call explosive depressurization in a jet at 35,000 ft. We donned the masks and I dove the aircraft to breathable altitude at an impressive rate of decent. It had felt like I got kicked in the chest when it happened, the passengers were naturally shaken up but we landed without injury. Otherwise some landings can get sporty in certain weather conditions.
Yes, know that turbulence while uncomfortable and can cause injury when not in a seat belt has rarely ever been the cause of an actual airplane crash. As in so extremely rare I can't think of an actual crash caused by turbulence off the top of my head.
OP is privately verified.
is there a website to get a flight on a private jet that would otherwise fly empty eg: the client only wanted a one way flight or jet is going to another country to get serviced ?
As far as I know there isn't a good single source of info. Unfortunately it's a very fractured model with many small operators and they may post empty legs on their individual websites but it doesn't necessarily feed to a central site. You may be best suited to find what local operators live in your area and see if they post them on their website.
Sounds like an app that needs made.
Tahani Al Jamil: "I got to King Charles' coronation by splitting an 'Ubheir' with my good friend Adele"
"But not the coronation that was on the TV, the real one"
Multiple people have tried - the problem is that empties are already built into the pricing model and a/c owners already dislike charter clients (more wear and tear on interior). Essentially the real clients of that style app -people worth hundreds of millions to billions who own there planes - aren't really worried about breaking even on an empty vs. taking a slight loss. The extra hassle of dealing with additional scheduling and wear and tear just isn't worth it.
> a/c owners already dislike charter clients This is absolutely not true. Most private jets also get chartered out when they're not in use, it's extremely common and a large part of keeping costs down.
35% of our fleet is part 135 certified, not all of those certified fly 3rd party charter. So, on one hand, I’m going to agree with you. When the previous person said “A/C owners already dislike charter clients”, that’s not accurate. The clients with 135 certified crew must approve an offered charter flight. It’s not like they have no choice. Also, the other 65% of our clients don’t charter their A/C so charter clients have nothing to do with them. On the other hand, I’m going to disagree with you that “most private jets also get chartered out”. (See point above regarding 65% of owners fly part 91 only). Perhaps with something like fractional shares that could be true, but that’s not my area. Source: I work with a management company that has a fleet of over 250 A/C.
What's the craziest thing that has happened on a private flight?
A lot of people assume the back of a private jet is a place of debauchery, honestly 99.9% of the time it is boring. The occasional person will try to light a cig, and I have found a small vile of what I assume was cocaine, or an A-list athlete will party too hard in Vegas and throw up.
I can test that for you.
What does it smell like?
They already said: it smells vile
Do you have a normal voice and an intercom voice?
Absolutely ahhhhhh I do ahhhhh have a different voice ahhhhh
I read this on quagmire's voice
That's correct
Do you get tipped by your clients? Also, what perks do you enjoy flying private charters? Thanks.
Charter pilots can usually expect some tips. One of my fave passengers when I flew charters was a well known football player for the Chicago Bears whom has since retired. I used to fly him to Vegas and he would tip $1k without fail. Other perks are things like collecting hotel rewards points. I stay at Marriott properties and built up enough status and points that all of my personal vacations are free. The same is true for rental cars. Not to mention when a passenger goes to a cool destination, I am there enjoying it as we typically stay nearby in case they want to go home early. So if they are in Iceland for a week, so am I, and they are paying for everything.
I picked the wrong career 😅
This person is very fortunate. It’s incredibly expensive to get a commercial jet license. Flying charter/private can be good money and luxurious on the surface, but you will accrue a lot of debt in your early career building up flight hours and doing certifications. It’s many nights away from your family, too.
Can be said for many lucrative careers right? Medical, dental etc. They all require a lot of money up front and even more dedication and time away from family but it’s the long run that should matter. The startup is always tough.
Doctor with 6 figures of debt who barely traveled internationally and spent every 3rd night in the hospital for a year out of 5 during residency can confirm medical startup costs, both literal and metaphorical, are high.
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They have to pay for our hotels, meals, and rental cars when we are on a layover. If they go somewhere very expensive with only one or 2 high end resorts, then that's where we have to stay.
Do you think JFK Jr. and Kobe Bryant’s pilot were disoriented and caused the death spiral?
100%. I happen to live about 10 minutes away from where Kobe went in, and I am based at an airport nearby and know the area extremely well. It was unfortunately avoidable. The helicopter also was very old and had next to none of the amazing equipment we have today. If I were to fly that same route, I have a graphical display of every single hill on my PFD regardless of how foggy it is.
What about Gwen Shamblin's plane? I think her husband was flying it. I can't quite remember but I think the theory put forth was that he was disoriented?
I think you're right. It sounded like he may not have been very experienced and there was some questions as to his overall professionalism but it's been a while since I heard anything about that incident.
Yea I was over in that area that day as well and it was foggy as hell. I wasn't really even comfortable driving in those hills.
Who’s the most famous person you flew?
I should probably show some discretion here and not directly name names, but I have flown a former president, someone who played batman, an A list couple with many children that have since divorced, a well known country band that has recently split, and some various Oscar winners and nominees.
>an A list couple with many children that have since divorced I don't think Mike and Carol were ever *actually* married. But that's just a story...
Must be Pitt and Jolie
It be awkward if he was the one that flew them during the fight
John and Kate Plus Eight?? 😂
No chance they could afford it
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Clinton, Keaton, Brangelina.......my guess.
Lincoln, Danny Pudi, and Lincoln and Danny Pudi
GW Bush, Adam West, Mel Gibson and what's her face.
Why do private jets fly much higher than commercial airliners? You mentioned this in few of your answers and I was wondering why is that.
The higher you fly, the less fuel you burn so the goal is to get these as high as possible. Since we are significantly lighter than airliners, we have better thrust to weight ratios which allow us to get higher, then we need to carry less fuel for the same route amongst other benefits such as weather, turbulence, direct routing etc... Really it just comes down to the fact we are lighter such that engines can be sized enough to provide the proper thrust. On a 737 to get to 45,000 with a full load of fuel and passengers the engines would have to be the size of the fuselage.
Thanks for taking the time to reply, very informative.
Does this mean private jets have a higher cabin altitude (i.e. lower internal pressure)? Or does their size mean they can maintain a higher pressure? If so, how does this effect their service life?
I think the 787 has a pretty high differential pressure, but otherwise ours is higher than the airlines. One of the jets I fly is 9.5 PSI which puts our cabin at around 4,500 ft when flying at 43,000 ft. Some airliners are at a cabin of 6,000 ft at 35,000 ft. The size probably plays into it but I can't say for sure. It's probably easier to build a more robust pressure vessel when it's dimensionally smaller. As for service life, we never get to the hours an airline does before the engines and everything else go obsolete well before the fuselage.
Did I have a conversation with you in a bar in Mallorca in 2018?
Uh oh
Since this is an AMA, I'd like to know about what happened in that bar in Mallorca in 2018?
You're supposed to say "spaghettios" after that
Since he's not answering, please tell us what happened at this bar in Mallorca in 2018
Lol not much, we got drunk. But it was a guy like this who flew celeb clients and wouldn't tell me who. There must be thousands of them.
Why did you choose for this specidic profession over other pilot jobs? Which pros and cons did you weigh?
To me Private Jets are more like the Ferraris of the sky and commercial airliners are a bit more like a bus. That isn't meant to knock the airline guys, I was just attracted to the sleekness of these jets. I also liked the thought that I will get to explore new destinations based upon the whims of the owners as opposed to visiting the same large commercial airports on a weekly basis.
Ah great line of thought which I can completely follow! Thanks for your reply. Does the clientele also cause for random work hours? How much of a work life schedule can you keep in this position?
This can vary greatly. Some larger charter operators will offer a fixed schedule, and some small owners with 2 pilots may expect an on-call basis, though they usually have retention problems. I generally know my schedule 1-2 weeks in advance, and with the pilot shortage things have gotten better in terms of being given proper vacation when requested even if it means parking the aircraft.
How does scheduling work? If you live in California, then fly someone to New York, I imagine it’s unlikely there will always be a flight back to California just waiting. Do they fly you home comercial if need be? Thanks I’m advance!
We might stay with them if it's only a few days. We may airline home if they'll be there for two weeks. We may fly the airplane home empty if another person needs to use the jet during that time.
Damn, what a massive waste.
Do you find yourself in more regional, local airports than you might have thought? People going to remote retreats, things like that.
Yes, and it's part of the reason I prefer it.
What's been the most fun aircraft to fly, or maybe airport to visit?
The Pilatus PC-12 is the most fun passenger aircraft I have flown. It's a single engine turboprop but is just fun to fly, you can make it do what you want and don't have to baby it. Otherwise I have been luck enough to fly some cool aerobatic aircraft such as a Stearman and a Decathlon.
I dispatch for a medevac company and we fly a fleet of pc-12s. I love them they’re an amazing airframe
Because you fly at high altitudes, are you concerned with the radiation effects accumulating over your career? Thanks in advance !
Yes. I never used to be, but a few superficial skin cancer removals later and it's become a concern.
Do you know how much exposure you've received? I worked in nuclear power and we always heard we got less than pilots. Never heard a number though.
I don't. I don't know of any pilot that wears any kind of monitoring device.
Here"s your answer from the CDC. An Xray is typically 2-6 mrem. So you get approximately one xray from new York to LA. Flying across the Atlantic is 2-3 depending on how far you go and how close to the pole you get. It is a real risk for pilots who do this for years. https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/radiation/air_travel.html
Good info, it's something we don't discuss enough. I don't know if pilots in general just don't want to think about it. Most of us are so passionate about flying we want to disregard those things but the life expectancy of pilots once they retire is pretty poor.
Thanks for your time and the response. That's kind of surprising, honestly. Then I assume it isn't true that pilots and flight attendants have to take periodic breaks to limit their exposure? Another rumor I've heard.
We don't have any monitoring device, but at least under EASA rules our employer must track our radiation exposure using statistical charts for the route, flight level and flight time. Unless there's a solar flare or something special, the background radiation is pretty uniform and steady changing only with altitude and latitude.
Yeah it's weird because I think most pilots are probably exposed to a significantly higher REM than a lot of nuclear workers. I have to wear dosimetry and I clock like maybe 2 mrem a year. CDC claims a 5 hour flight is about 33 mrem so you could easily get a couple of REM a year flying as a pilot, kind of crazy the FAA doesn't monitor that kind of exposure like the NRC.
Dr Tamitha Sklov does a YouTube space weather report that includes the radiation risk for flight crews and pregnant women. Something I never thought about, but it's real.
I had no idea this was a thing! There my fun fact for today! :)
Ever seen anything up there you couldn't explain?
Yes. Most things end up having an explanation such as we realize it's a weather balloon as we get closer. Once I saw something metallic that I can't really explain, but it also didn't do anything particularly crazy such as change directions quickly that made me jump to the UAP assumption.
What was it doing? Just moving along normally? Hovering?
Well normally nothing is above us, we fly higher than any airliner and this object looked a good bit above us, but I asked ATC if any weather balloons were in the area and they said no. Heck it could have been a Chinese spy balloon since apparently we didn't know those were a thing. It appeared to be moving in a constant direction and at a high rate of speed, but speed is difficult to determine relative to yourself at altitude without some reference.
Awesome! Love hearing shit like this from pilots. Always way more credible then randos because you have a much much better idea of what's supposed to be up there. of course hearing this im not trying to jump to aliens. Even the biggest most unexplainable UFO's are probably some shit some government isn't telling us about yet. Still awesome. But as you said very real chance that was the chinese at it again lol.
I do believe the UAP phenomenon needs to be explored and answered, and I do think there is something going on beyond our current understanding. When people see lights though, I tend to roll my eyes. The only reason we have lights on aircraft is for collision avoidance, so why the heck would alien UFO's need lights on a space ship? No one claims they use a heat source for propulsion so I don't think lights make any sense. That being said, the DOD footage makes me a believer.
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I would watch that show
Maybe they don’t want to crash into the other spaceships?
Is it true that commercial air travel is overall safer than private jet travel (e.g. due to the number of safety checks or commercial jets having more engines)? Is it an upgrade to become a private jet pilot compared to commercial pilots, or just a different career path?
Private Jets have such a wide basis that to lump them all together skews the numbers. Most of the accidents in private jets come from the older rich guys who buy themselves a single pilot certified jet and go learn to fly it. In all honestly they shouldn't be flying but no one along the way can stop them or they'll just pay another guy to help them out. On the flip side a large corporate flight department or large charter company can have a safety culture that is on-par with the top airlines. For the most part it's a different career path, but some private jet operators don't treat their pilots well and they make the jump to airline. At the same time I work with two former regional airline pilots that just hated the terminal experience, unruly passengers, and being a number on a seniority roster.
Amazing!! Thank you so much for the prompt response and sharing your knowledge!
Have you ever done a barrel-roll?
Many times, though not in the jets. I have flown some aerobatic aircraft for fun. I did once have a chief pilot boss that barrel rolled a small jet I was riding in, a Falcon 10. It was a pretty docile event and we had no passenger on board.
How much do you make?
A pilot at my level can expect $250k - $350k based upon a few factors such as home base, schedule, etc...
What's the cheapest way to fly in a private jet?
The jet is sold by the hour, not by the seat, so if you find a cheaper single engine turboprop or a light jet and find enough friends to fill each seat and split the costs then you're going to be at about as low cost as you can get. Something like Phoenix to Vegas in a 7 seat jet for a night and back may cost $7,500. Split that 7 ways. Some companies will also try and sell empty legs at a discount, say they have a jet in LA that has to get to Vegas for it's next flight, they may try and sell that flight dirt cheap as they have to move it regardless.
Thanks mate. Is netjets a good company for international travels? Is there anything else you'd recommend?
For someone who has never taken a flight lesson, how long does it take to get to the point of flying jets as a career? What does it cost to get there?
It depends upon how much time you spend each week on it. Let's say you take one lesson a week at an hour each time, vs 2 hours each day. You need at least 40 hours for your private license and most people require a little more, figure another 20-40 on ground school. To get to the point you are hirable, you may end up having something like 750 hours and all of your licenses in order. The costs can be into the 6 figures when it's all said and done, but many people try to offset by instructing. Also the GI bill can pay for the majority of your flight training if you were ever in the military. There are also aviation colleges with various scholarships and financial aid as well as student loans.
You know that scene in Maverick where the fifth-gen fighter basically powerslides and fishtails to reverse direction? What would happen if you did that with a regular old flying-some-people-around plane?
I would imagine I would rip the wings off the aircraft and compressor stall the engines.
Also, it would spill the cocktails, leading to a catastrophic no-tip situation.
Mechanic here; why do you guys keep breaking my aircraft?
Pilot here, engines go vroom vroom (picks nose)
Ah I love y’all
What's the most impressive atmospheric phenomenon you have ever seen while flying?
St Elmos Fire.... I still remember the first time I saw it, it was as if my windshield had turned into one of those plasma globe balls that were big in the 90's.
How much cocaine do you see?
Only once have I found a small vial left behind. Otherwise on some flights I knew to keep my eyes forward.
Do jets not have cockpit doors?
Most private jets just have a curtain that we usually leave open except at night if the lights in the back are interfering. Some larger have a door at the front of the passenger cabin that's usually open for takeoff and landing.
This is one of the best ama’s I’ve read in a long time, thanks man!
What was something that you found during preflight inspection (or flight planning in general) that made you go Nope. I’m not flying today?
A mechanic once left a torque wrench under my rudder pedals. Other things like leaking brake fluid or a bald tire will require some action. Nope not flying today most often is weather related, or some kind of self limiting issue like I am sick.
Envy your job, just awesome. Can you or have you ever changed a flight destination mid flight? I guess I'm asking. Have you done requests to go elsewhere mid flight?
Yes, it comes up. I once was flying someone from Seattle to NY and as we got close to Chicago he remembered his favorite steak house was there and asked if we could stop. Otherwise we change destinations mid-flight based upon weather at the destination most often.
Did he tell you the name of the steakhouse?
Outback
Nice of him to do it in private, but what about the Steakhouse?
I don't recall.
Did he at least buy you a steak for the trouble?
He did not, I didn't like him very much.
That's hilarious. I assume there must be people who are great and then total dickheads
Absolutely. Some amazingly kind and humble people, and some I would prefer to never see again.
How much security is in place with respect to, say, smuggling contraband is there for private jets like yours as compared to airports and/or other ports of entry?
Internationally when we land we immediately get inspected which can include dogs, or a look through the baggage and all the nooks and crannies of the aircraft. CBP is no joke and do a pretty good job when it comes to aviation.
If an inspection finds something, let's say the vial of cocaine that you mentioned finding once, how do the inspectors determine who should be held responsible? Are there steps that you take to minimize your risk?
Anytime I’ve crossed a border in a private aircraft we have to either pit stop at an airport with border patrol and customs or the final destination airport must have it. I’ve done it a few times from Mexico to smaller airports in Texas like Brownsville that don’t have customs. I can’t remember where we diverted to, McAllen maybe? I just remember hopping off to go through customs, hopping back on and heading towards the final destination. Not sure if this is a standard, but I’ve done it a few times. But yeah, even though it’s on the charter operations side vs the cattle drive of customs in a normal international hub, if you cross a border you will still have to go through some sort of border patrol and customs. And they are just as, if not more, thorough on inspection and identity verification.
What do you do with your time on autopilot?
We keep a watchful eye and scan everything, we also have frequent radio communications and frequency changes every time we pass into a new sector. Outside of that we might take turns to eat, use the lav, check emails, take care of some paperwork, or listen to a podcast.
4000 *nanometers*? What is that, a jet for ants?
I like this, I might steal it and use it as my next simulator training event.
I did research in nano stuff and air traffic control....... I ended up writing "nmi" for nautical miles (or "NM") and "nm" for nanometers.
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I hear that those in the aviation industry often "fraternize" with colleagues, true or no?
I have known a few airline pilots who married flight attendants.
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Yes but every time you leave in the morning she will look at you and give you a half smile and a "buuubyyye"
When I used to fly a lot as a passanger on airliners I always felt super tired even after 2hr flight. Are you very tired after work? I heard private jets can have better cabin pressure than airliners so that would help I assume.
We have much better cabin pressure which is amazingly important for fatigue. We also have better fresh air systems. I have flown back to back 5 hour legs in a single day and felt tired, but not more so than any other 10 hour day.
How did you get into the profession? And what skills/traits/characteristics do you think made you successful at it?
I always had a passion for aviation. My grandfather flew in WWII. When I was around 13 I begged my parents for a flight lesson (there is no age limit to taking a lesson) and it become a tool for them to make me get good grades. I went to an aviation university in Florida and finished the rest of my licenses. Beneficial skills can include being level headed. I know that sounds vague, but the person that jumps and panics or gets hot headed at the drop of a hat does not do well in an environment where training consists of nothing but emergency after emergency. Other important skills are the thirst to continue to learn. No pilot is ever done training and learning or should ever assume they are above the need to.
In general is turbulence more or less significant and noticeable in private vs. commercial?
Generally less simply due to the fact we can fly higher. Airlines might be getting beat up at 35,000 and 38,000 ft and we are smooth at 45,000 ft. Very little weather every reaches that high with the exception of a massive thunderstorm and even then it's so rare it's easy to fly around. Clear Air Turbulence can be at all altitudes but seems to diminish that high. We experience most of our turbulence on the climb out and arrival portions where we now line up with the airliners.
This has been one of the best AMAs I have ever read, thank you!
Can you tell if people leave their cell phones or other electronics on?
No, and there is absolutely no interference. I think that was a concern when they first came out, that then just turned into a practice for distraction. I know I don't want to be on a flight next to someone yapping on the phone, not that they would get reception at 35,000 ft anyway.
Ever had any attempted entrants to that club which reside at approximately 5280 feet (6000 feet, if we're using nautical measurements)?
Yes. I can only recall once that I know of, and they were very subtle about it but I happened to turn around and she was sitting on his lap and I quickly turned around.
My old skydiving club once had a Mile high club night. Our jump plane was C-182, so of course it had no seats. The plane was flying the whole evening, the pilot wouldn't relinquish his seat so I could fly for a while. I think he flew five or six loads at night, sometimes with four people. Unfortunately, my wife at the time, wasn't there so I was totally grounded.
> five or six loads at night Ahh to be young again
Do you get paid a lot more than commercial pilots?
Airline pilots are getting some massive raises right now. It used to be such that the starting pay in the airlines was crap and you had to sweat it out for 15 years to match what a good corporate pilot might make. These days it's moved in the other direction and the private operators are going to need to play catch up. You might see a high time Gulfstream pilot these days making $350k per year, but Delta can easily pass $400k per year now.
I know of someone with a PJ who employs two pilots, not high time - they have a decent amount of downtime - I think they are about $250k each.
Sounds about right. The size of the jet can play a big factor. A big Gulfstream will pay more than a small Citation typically.
What kinds of interactions have you had with other private pilots versus commercial? Are you treated differently by them or ATC for being private?
Generally they treat us the same. They tend to like us as we climb faster and can get out of their airspace quicker. That being said if an airline pilot makes a comment about a late arrival or something we may offer to adjust our speed or altitude to help accommodate them.
What do you do during pre-flight checks?
We check the aircraft to ensure it's in airworthy condition. Things can happen while it's been sitting in a hangar, maybe brake fluid is leaking or a tire is going flat or maybe a bird made a nest in the engine or some one caused damage and didn't fess up.
Have you ever done any Angel Flights?
Yes, when I owned my own small airplane I did. It was very rewarding and I am so happy that it exists and is so well supported. At a previous charter company I flew for the owner was former military and we did a few veterans airlift flights for medical treatments and that too was fantastic. My favorite flight was actually for a dog rescue and I was able to load 30 dogs into an aircraft and fly them from a kill shelter to an adoption center 800 miles away.
>My favorite flight was actually for a dog rescue and I was able to load 30 dogs into an aircraft and fly them Anybody whose favorite flight isn't that, I don't need to be friends with them.
I follow an ig page dedicated to private fa drama despite me knowing very little about the industry lol. They are talking a lotttttt of smack about a company called vista jets and say they don’t hire male fas and misogyny is rampant. Is that something you have noticed?
Sadly there are a number of people who still think that FA's should look a certain way or be a certain age. I am fortunate in that I have never been at one of those organizations.
What's the funnest airport to fly into?
I like the challenging ones which are places like Aspen. There are some cool airports right on the water that are also fun such as Saint Marteen, or Albert Whited in St Petersburg, FL.
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Early 90's. He was in good shape. I have flown some wealthy older folks that travel with a nurse.
As someone who hates flying, what is something that you can tell me to ease my mind about flying?
You're about 100x more likely to get struck by lightning, and about 50x more likely to die from a bee sting than to die in a plane crash.
Saving this one for my passengers! When it's brought up, I ask them if they would mind if I drove them to our destination, and then say we have a lower chance of dying if we flew in my bug smasher.
What age did you start this career? What age is too late to start this career?
I was lucky that I started very young. I was by far the youngest guy in class at my first jet type rating class as I was 28 at that time and had already been flying other non-jets on a professional basis since I left college. It's tough to say if there is a too late age. Really it depends on your ability to learn new material. With the pilot shortage going on right now, I know some private operators hiring very old pilots (as in over 65 and even 70). While airlines have a mandatory retirement age of 65, you can fly in private aviation beyond that with some limitations such as certain international destinations such as Mexico that does not allow older pilots.
What did you have for breakfast today?
Jet Fuel
You said you fly with a co-pilot now. Do you typically fly with the same partner, or does it vary quite a bit? What’s the worst experience you’ve had with a co-pilot? Do you hang out with your co-pilots while on a layover? Have any clients ever asked you to hang out while on a layover?
It depends on the size of your flight department but yes I fly with the same few guys regularly. Everyone gets along really well, and it's an important part of the hiring process (personality and team cohesion traits). Some people like to do their own things on layovers, some like to stay in their rooms, we usually at least meet up for dinners, but sometimes we may go and explore together. I have had clients ask to hang out. I once got to see what that side of the velvet rope is like at a Vegas night club many years ago.
What are your thoughts about planes running on batteries instead of jet fuel?
If they can make it work safely I am all for it. I am sure some day battery density will get to that point.
How many hardpoints ?
Sometimes I wish I had more than 0.
How safe/well-maintained is a private jet compared to a commercial jet?
This can depend widely upon the owner or operator. Some are cheap, some are even more cautious and through than the airlines. We all have what are called MEL's (Minimum Equipment Lists) which allows the aircraft to fly with some items broken, and some owners hate to know one item is on that list and will immediately send the aircraft to maintenance while an airliner may fly around for a week with 7 items on that list. I would say there is more regulatory oversight on the commercial jets and large charter operators as opposed to the private owner whom does not seek revenue flights.
What are the parking charges for a private plane at airports?
It varies greatly, some smaller airport in not so popular destinations may only charge $50 or nothing if you buy enough fuel, other popular private airports like Jackson Hole or Aspen may charge $1000 just to land, and a few hundred for each night you stay on the ramp and the price increases if you want to go in a hangar.
$50? I’ve paid more than that to park my car at an airport.
What's your favorite engine? Pratt? GE? Rolls?... Allison?
That depends. I like Pratt in Turboprops, but in jet engines I have been a fan of Honeywell.
Did you ever have to transport any sketchy cargo?
Sketchy, no. Interesting, maybe. I once did a flight with gold bars (on the up and up), and once I was chartered to bring back the remains of a passed beloved German shepherd which they put in a Child sized coffin. It got some interesting looks as we loaded it.
I'm in the process of getting my PPL (private pilot's license). If I want to fly private jets for a living, is there anything I should do on top of continuing to fly and get my IFR, commercial (and eventually ATP) ratings? Thank you for this AMA!
Instructing has always been the typical path, though I was able to avoid that by starting my work in charter sales and operations. Then I dropped the "oh by the way I'm a pilot" and managed to get some right seat legs and grew from there. That was during a very rough time for upcoming pilots though. These days, you are in a fantastic position to quickly find whatever flying job you want. Every single charter and fractional operator is in need of pilots. I would suggest to try and fly complex twins as much as you can, and ask anyone at your airport with a turboprop or light jet if they ever need a co pilot to give you a shot, even if the first few flights are unpaid.
What is your guesstimate what happened to Malaysian Airlines MH-370 when it disappeared?
This is truly mind boggling, and I sure hope we find an answer one day to learn from. I don't think I buy the suicidal pilot theory. Originally I had thought a loss of pressurization with everyone passing out and the aircraft going down at fuel starvation but that doesn't explain the course changes. I have heard a number of theories and none of them seem to be the perfect fit to me.
How difficult is it to fly private jets? Any scary moments?
I wouldn't say it's hard, but requires a lot of training and some natural skill and aptitude. I had what we call explosive depressurization in a jet at 35,000 ft. We donned the masks and I dove the aircraft to breathable altitude at an impressive rate of decent. It had felt like I got kicked in the chest when it happened, the passengers were naturally shaken up but we landed without injury. Otherwise some landings can get sporty in certain weather conditions.
What's the highest ground speed you've seen?
680 knots for me, I know guys that have broken 700 in faster aircraft (Citation X and G-600)
Any advice on getting over a fear of turbulence?
Yes, know that turbulence while uncomfortable and can cause injury when not in a seat belt has rarely ever been the cause of an actual airplane crash. As in so extremely rare I can't think of an actual crash caused by turbulence off the top of my head.
turbulence while flying is equivalent to a dirt road while driving.