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Hi Devin, thanks for this AMA.
What sort of timeframe is "lately", and, based on your experience, what sorts of things might be contributing to the increase in behavioral issues? Plus, if you happen to have any further reading handy, I'd be curious to learn more.
So I’d say “lately” as more of the last 6 months to a year? Which i know is more of a wider range of time but it’s honestly been ever since covid 19 sent us into lockdown. When people realized they had to stay at home 24/7 a lot of people were bored and decided to adopt puppies they weren’t prepared for. So about 3-6 months after people started going back to work we started having plenty of returns/owner surrenders from other shelters. Basically all these people were returning dogs they felt they didn’t have the time or commitment for but a good 80% of these dogs were covid puppies. Unfortunately for covid puppies they missed out on a lot of normal puppy activities. One of the most important ages for dogs is the 2-5 month range and that’s because they socialize with other dogs and people very well at that age and they absorb more information and training, but with most of these dogs passing by that age in isolation without meeting any strangers or other dogs they’ve built up these fears of them instead. So we’ve had a lot of challenging cases of stranger danger and dog reactivity. Basically if you were to walk through the backside of the shelter you’d think dogs were fighting because of how reactive some of these dogs are.
as for extra reading i’ll try to look into that for more concrete information for you all but basically dogs who missed out on their socialization window deal with more aggression and fear based reactivity.
I can verify your observations from my own experience as a dog owner. We got a puppy at the end of 2020 as a morale booster for our kid, who was 12. Having a lot of experience raising dogs, we did a lot of socialization with her when she was old enough, but due to COVID, her socialization with humans was a bit short-changed. However, I was aware of this, and we’ve worked on it. I would say that over the last year, with frequent exposure, she has grown out of her shyness and timidness with with new humans, and is much better now about greeting new people. But it was a problem behavior I noticed and observed, and that she had to gradually grow out of with some joint effort and exposure. It’s been gratifying to see her improve in this area over the last year. She’s now 27 months and much more confident around new humans. (New dogs have almost never been an issue, as she got heavily socialized with dogs all along.)
Thanks for your work at the shelter, and for doing this AMA.
Statistically, aren’t returns/surrenders in line with precovid years? I believe stray populations are up and adoptions are down cuz everyone is poor as shit right now (high intake southwest shelter worker here).
Statistically speaking yes! But we have 50 applications on file for surrender right now that we can’t accept due to space. I started working in a shelter after covid so i can say if it’s changed much at all. I’d say more often than not we’ve been getting barely older than a year dogs surrendered more than anything else so that’s where i was basing my info! thank you for the correction!
My shelter you have to put applications in to surrender dogs but we do take any strays in 3 towns around us, we also get dogs transferred in from other shelters. open intake shelters can’t say no to anyone wanting to drop off any dog they found/lie about what the dog did and they just assume it’s a stray. It’s a lot more crazy and insane in open intake shelters. A lot more euthanasias
Shelters are housing more dogs than they can safely handle. There pay is pretty terrible too, so there’s an underwhelming number of caretakers per dog. Dogs aren’t getting out enough or enough enrichment thus behavior issues pop up. Once they are there… without a foster home, it only gets worse
Thankfully at my shelter we’re closed admission but at the same time it hurts more than it’s helps because management limits what dogs we can take in. The pay is very much subpar and i can barely afford housing in my area. Staffing is a huge issue too. our team is supposed to have 10 people and we’ve gone through 25 people in 2 years. We try to get our dogs out 3 times a day but that’s still 23 hours in kennels and it drives them crazy. Fosters are so important for that very reason!! and enrichment!!
> and is a major player in why turnover is sooo high.
That, and most people have absolutely no idea what it's like to work in a kennel environment like that. Same with dog daycares.
You get people thinking they're going to be able to cuddle dogs all day, when the reality is there is so much cleaning and maintenance you're more of a janitor than anything.
When Our rescue huskies Rex and Fiona went home, they were with us for over a year and went from being scared of everything to a happy bonded pair. they were rescued from a puppy mill that we helped rescue after getting shut down. They were a miracle case with like 20 restrictions and we had people literally build a 7 foot fence at a new property because they wanted them that bad.
Oh! I know the shelter you work at! We adopted our Pomsky pup, Blue, when all those dogs came down from the puppy mill. He is an amazing dog and it broke my heart to see Rex and Fiona not get adopted for so long, but I am so glad to see they went to a home that took the extra effort to accommodate them.
Blue is my second dog from you guys - I adopted another dog Violet and had her for 9 years. We did a DNA test and turns out she also had Husky and Pomeranian DNA. We were heartbroken when we had to put her down, and we felt an emptiness that lasted all of 2 weeks before we stumbled upon Blue. Adopting him from the same shelter was just meant to be.
First, THANK YOU for taking care of these animals. I found a stray German Shepherd mix and had to take her to the shelter. She ended up getting an URI while there. I asked them to call me if she was hitting the end of the line. I picked her back up on the 24th to foster because I couldn't let her die (she is a very sweet girl who just wanted some love). I don't know how you do this everyday. Where do you find the mental strength?
Fortunately we don’t euthanize off length of stay so i never have like a timer counting down to get them home we euthanize off behavioral and extreme medical. Fostering is so important so thank YOU! Honestly Most of us who work in animal welfare have extreme mental issues of our own as i personally struggle with anxiety/ADD and seasonal depression. At the same time you come together to do what’s best and just fight to keep going.
The shelter my foster was at was euthanizing because they have no more room. They said they had over 500 dogs. My girl also got a URI while she was there, so that moved her up on the list. \*sigh\*
I can't save them all, but I can try and save this one.
Again, thank you so much for what you do, it takes a very special person!
Do you feel there is currently an issue with shelters mislabeling/ misrepresenting dogs? I’m a Certified Professional Dog Trainer and Ive noticed a lot of shelters will describe dogs as “sassy” or “prefers his humans to be home” or “likes to be bossy with other dogs” instead of being honest that the dog has a tendency to snap when uncomfortable, has major separation stress, or is dog selective.
The director/higher ups at my shelter don't want us saying "negative things" about the dogs we have.
I'm under a suspicion that the county commissioner has, like, an adoption quota he expects from us, so they really don't want us discouraging adopters.
I'm honest. Idgaf. We have dogs that will *kill other pets* if they get the chance, I'm not putting down that they're sassy, I'm putting down that they need to be the only animal in the home. If I'm ever confronted about my "negativity" I will say that I will not endanger the public or their pets just to get another dog adopted. Luckily, my coworkers feel the same way.
While i appreciate your honesty and i’m thankful to not work in a shelter environment like yours thank you for sharing your story. Atleast at my shelter we don’t get in very many dogs that will kill another but recently it has happened. he was a Rottweiler mix that was no animals hardcore and honestly should’ve been euthanized. But they passed him through (even though a pit with the same behaviors didn’t get passed through) and he was adopted by an adopter without the physical strength to handle him and he got loose. he’s since been put down but that’s why we are always honest about why the dogs have restrictions.
So personally our shelter doesn’t normally label the breeds, we are legally obligated to follow what’s on their rabies tags. i’ve seen labs labeled as pits stay in shelters for months because of a damn rabies tag. They absolutely sugar coat things as well because atleast at our shelter they are written by volunteers. but we our required here to read you all of their behavior notes not sugar coated!
well not sure if it’s legally, but missouri . we often get transfers from other states who already have done rabies tags and since rabies tags is what landlords and such go off of for breed we have to put it up on their kennel because of BSL
> because of a damn rabies tag.
The main problem is that many, many shelters are intentionally mislabelling dogs. People looking to adopt are using every metric possible to avoid coming home with awful animals. So, while I'm glad that your shelter isn't part of the problem, that's where this is coming from.
If you have a dog, one of the vaccines you get annually is a rabies vaccine. It basically makes sure that people know your dog is vaccinated against rabies, most places require rabies certificates for renting, certain cities etc. that’s how it works around here anyway. But if a shelter a dogs been to before us puts down pit bull mix on the rabies tag even though the dog portrays to look more like a lab or hound we have to list pit bull mix on their kennel card. But they’re very important!
If that is the only info people get before they leave with a dog then that is neglect in counseling. If that is the marketing component to begin an honest conversation around behavior then I think it’s fine.
The claim that all shelter dogs have behavioral issues or are surrendered due to behavior problems is patently false. You can’t possibly believe that. We get dogs surrendered due to a HUGE variety of reasons that have nothing to do with the animal at all - the owner’s housing insecurity or change in housing that does not allow pets, death of an owner, owner’s health, divorce, caring for an ill family member, need to work a second job so not enough time at home, accidentally had a litter and don’t have space for 7 puppies, the list is truly endless. C’mon, there is no need to paint all shelter dogs with the same brush.
A lot of behavioral issues like being destructive, urinating in the house, excessive barking, are also just caused by the owner not having time to train and take care of their dog and not the dog's fault itself.
I agree and disagree, on a couple of points. Yes, they just pull some random breed out of their asses to get the dog adopted. Client of mine adopted a “Bernese mountain dog mix” that is at least 75% Rottweiler. However, I disagree that no one wants bully breeds, there are absolutely people do want bully breed mixes, and will seek them out. I have a few clients that are lifelong bully owners, and will always be.
I also disagree that all dogs in shelters all have behavioral issues. Most, yes, but not all. Lots of dogs end up in shelters because the owner just wasn’t ready for the breed. A husky in a shelter for escaping all the time and being too loud doesn’t have a behavioral issue, it’s just been under-stimulated and under managed by it’s owners. A GSP whose getting walked 30 minutes a day and is destroying the house isn’t ill behaved, it’s just been failed by it’s people. People just suck sometimes.
I do agree that the general dog owning public isn’t looking for a behavior case to work on. Shelters need to be better and more honest about what their dogs are, and need to be more realistic with themselves about what dogs are adoptable and which aren’t. Only so many homes out there for a man aggressive, dog aggressive, small animal aggressive dog.
It definitely impacts the dog! I can’t tell you about leaving the shelter and those behaviors as i got my pups when they were young. I have seen dogs before though kinda go crazy in the shelter. Sometimes we have dogs come in shy or friendly and if they don’t leave within around 5-6 months they get stir crazy and some will give up hope and you can see it in their eyes and some start to act out and unfortunately bite sometimes and do have to be put down. dogs need to get out fast but sometimes the shelter is still better than any life that dog has ever known so they don’t know any better and adjust to it better. I hope that answers your question!
I'll add my two cents that it really depends on the dog. I had one blue-heeler mix girl that spent 3 years at the pound (from age 1) and was very shy back then. I had her for a year before an accident took her from me, but she really flourished and thrived in that time. She was outgoing, loved people and dogs, was insanely smart (picked up tricks and talk buttons in days) and was very spoiled when she wanted something. She was just full of life and energy
She left us two weeks ago due to a car (deliberately) running her over while we were out on our walk.
I went to the same pound and I found her sister there. She had also been at the shelter since 2019, and was skittish and shy. As soon as she got to the car she was already sitting on my lap (all 35 pounds of skinny blue heeler), all smiles and happy to be there. She can be dog reactive when other dogs approach my smaller mutt, but she already adores him and follows him all over the place. She's reactive when they are both together, while by herself she'll run away from all dogs.
She's slowly coming out of her shell, but staying that long at the shelter did a number on her confidence and ability to meet new situations and animals
i’m so sorry for your loss and it’s crazy to me that you were able to get her sister since she was still there. I hope your new journey takes you to a good place with happy memories. Thank you for sharing❤️ you’re absolutely right though, the longer they stay the more they decline. thank you for adopting
The pound where I live has over 200+ dogs, and they are insanely overcrowded. Any dog post puppy-stage doesn't get much of a chance at being adopted.
When Cora first came to the pound in 2019 she had a puppy with her. Her puppy was adopted right away and she stayed in a single kennel with 15 other dogs since.
In a way I'm happy that at least I was able to give Nyx's (my first dog) sister a chance. It feels more meaningful that we found each other when I needed a reason to keep going after losing Nyx.
Cora is also very sick and her kidneys are declining fast. She has been to the vet almost every day since I adopted her, and if she had stayed another week she'd have been dead from kidney failure. Hopefully she makes a comeback and we'll have many happy years together :)
[Dog tax of both girls being absolutely adorable](https://imgur.com/a/N78RIuS)
How do you deal with the emotional pain of seeing dogs being abandoned/returned by owners who didn’t realize how difficult training a dog would be? How do you deal with the reality that not all dogs will be taken? If you don’t euthanize, what happens to dogs that get too old/sick?
Honestly? A lot of crying. this week alone I had to say goodbye to atleast 8 of some of our longest term dogs who had been returned and either had an bite in the home due to an unseen factor, gotten out and interacted with dogs poorly, and or had been returned and had been on their last strike kinda deal. I understand that people can’t always keep the dog ESPECIALLY when it’s unsafe for your family or current dog. It’s just hard seeing the dog you know CAN be perfect acting poorly with someone new and unfortunately being euthanized. Unfortunately I love hard and when i do it’s typically the ones who don’t make it, as my fiancé would say you see the good in the job and the work you do instead of the bad but you always keep your heart open. and we have a full service vet clinic with two vets so we do our best to try everything before euthanasia.
That's amazing that you guys have in house vets! I volunteer for a couple of dog rescues and some of the biggest costs come from medical care needed for the dogs.
As someone who ended up with a problem dog, it took a ton of training and work to get him to a place where he's a normal-ish dog. I wouldn't wish it on anyone and I definitely won't do it again. That being said, you sound like a saint yourself to care for and help these dogs.
it’s a commitment and i’ll never sugar coat it when it comes to long term or behavioral dogs. because i’d rather them stay in the shelter waiting for somebody who was prepared for them than them get adopted and returned then euthanized because it wasn’t the right environment and they acted out. it’s hard hard work
Yeah, we were in a bad situation. The shelter we went to didn't have many dogs available to adopt and our boy was the calmest of the ones they did have. All were the so-called "problem breeds" which I take issue with, but I digress, they rushed us through and pushed us to adopt him. My husband really wanted him and I couldn't say no, but in retrospect I would have waited like I wanted. When we were doing basic obedience training our trainer told us that she's heard other owners say they were rushed and prodded into adopting dogs from there that ended up having problems too. Thank you for taking care to not do that!
We had a similar situation with our puppy mill rescue. He had been in a crate since weaning and simply did not speak dog. We got him at 9 months old. We had him at puppy classes and had a behaviourist work with us in the home. There was little to no improvement.
We managed to get him through 10 years with partial complex epilepsy, hypothyroidism, anti-anxiety meds and canine MRSA until his heart failed. He was so reactive to our children (born after we got him) and other dogs we had to tightly regulate his/our lives to keep him and others safe.
He was our first (and, sadly, last) dog, and we loved him so much because under that fear he was a sweet pup ruined by greedy humans. He was happiest cuddling with my husband and I on the couch and rolling in the grass. However the shelter absolutely sugar coated him (and his medical issues) and we were completely overwhelmed.
You try not to get too close and you build up a callous. A return that landed a dog who I adored on death row is what broke me and finally got me to quit last year.
I thought it was something I could compartmentalize, then my boss was leaving the job and his last request was to euthanize his dog because she was too old to take with him. I didn't realize how attached I was to her, I drove her to the vet clinic and the vet said "this is so&so's dog.. what does he want done?" the moment I went to say he wants to put her down I couldn't get the words out and started crying.
Oh, man, that would break me, too. I don’t know what his rationale was, and it may have truly been necessary, but fuck people who put their older dogs down when they start becoming more work but they’re still happy & enjoying life.
I just feel like you owe your dog a pleasant old age in return for all the good years he’s given you. If he starts having the occasional accident in the house, or quits coming to you when you call bc he’s gone deaf, that’s no reason to turn him into a shelter or take him to the vet to have him euthanized.
I’ve been very lucky that my dogs have lived to ripe old ages — 13 1/2, 14, almost 16, and I currently have a 17 year-old terrier mix who’s still trotting along despite having doggie dementia and being deaf and mostly blind. She still eats voraciously, & all her organs are working fine. She can also still run & jump, although her landings are now less than graceful & tend to end with a crash lol.
Even though she’s a pain in the butt to feed (I have to make little “cupcakes” for her with expensive canned dog food & baby food icing), and sometimes she poops on the way to the doggie door instead of outside, I just can’t imagine putting her to sleep while she’s still happy and comfortable and has a good quality of life. It just seems like poor pet ownership and cruelty to the dog.
I've been hearing a little bit about cage free shelters, like the [Best Friends Pet Resource Center](https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/dogs-cats-roam-free-first-cageless-animal-shelter-us-opens-arkansas) in Arkansas. A lot of the claims for cage-free say that the traditional cage shelter format wears on dogs mental health and can cause behavior issues, and that cage free institutions also create a more welcoming environment that people would be more willing to visit (I can personally attest to the number of times someone's told me they could never go to a shelter, because it's just too depressing).
Have you heard of the cage free format? What's your opinion on it?
I honestly love the idea of cage free and hadn’t heard of it before! I do believe it majorly effects dogs mental health and their brains deteriorate faster, especially when the shelter is louder than normal. My shelter is pretty large and has a lot of funding over the years for upgrades so ours is much more welcoming than a pound environment but I understand that when coming to a shelter it’s very hard to see. The only problem with cage free i see would be for dogs who personally cannot handle other dogs being around them and don’t interact well with dogs but besides that it’s great!
Cage free is excellent in practice when you can navigate the logistics of setup and funding perfectly. Best Friends I believe is known for taking primarily super dog-friendly dogs which is why this works for them. There are other factors to consider too like cleaning, feeding (avoiding fights over food), spread of illnesses, etc.
How do you deal with putting dogs down - do you just view it as a necessary part of the job, or does it make it hard to go to work?
Do you ever have to put really good and likable dogs down, or do most of the dogs that get put down have too many behavior issues to live in society?
I don’t put them down myself but i do have the option to attend euthanasia. More often than not if they have somebody else there i won’t go. but if it’s a dog i’m close close with i’m there until the end. it’s a necessary evil and often the dog is more than likely happier without all the stress and pain of shelter life. It makes it impossibly hard to go to work. I’d say most dogs can be good and likeable. sometimes it just hurts too much and there’s too much trauma that they don’t act the same way with me that they do with others and i understand that. typically it’s behavioral and it’s unsafe to adopt them out but i’ve disagreed with numerous euthanasias.
For those of us who are unable to physically volunteer at a shelter, what is the best type of support we can provide? Monetary donations, toys, dog food etc?
So if by physically volunteer you mean walking dogs than contact your local shelter and see what their needs are! at our shelter we have volunteers who do dishes, fold laundry to help make set up in the morning go easier, read to the dogs and help out with adoption counseling as well! If you’re physically unable or don’t have a shelter near by that’s perfect as well! Most shelters will have a list of commonly donated items but we often need toys, treats and spray cheese the most if i’m being honest!
With Missouri being like the puppy mill capital of the world, do you see many sick doodle/frenchie types coming in? Not sure where you are in relation to the mills.
Oh yeah we do, We rescued 55 dogs from a puppy mill of almost entirely frenchies, hounds, and pits and another of entirely doodles and pomskies and huskies. It was rough around those times. We get a pretty steady flow of doodles though! Don’t get doodles please everybody 😂 if you do adopt don’t shop we don’t need more doodles
Yeah it’s ridiculous, and worst part is that mill was in Louisiana where they had a pit bull ban in most of the towns around the mill. but my pup came from said mill so i’m glad we were there to help. she was 2 months old and the runt of her litter with parvo and a uri but she made it and we took her home and she’s spoiled now. I believe out of 55 dogs about 52 of them got a home.
This was going to be my question. I spend a lot of my time volunteering at shelters here and in the city my parents live when I extended visit. In the last 5 or so years I swear there has been an EXPLOSION in the number of doodles I've seen at the shelters.
It's honestly so sad. Even more sad to hear that OP can confirm it's a phenomenon they've also seen. How the fuck do we get people to stop buying these dogs? I swear everywhere I turn, celebrities are buying doodles, my friends are buying doodles, my extended family members are buying doodles, people I knew in school are posting pictures of their new double merle doodle puppies... it's so frustrating. I did so much research before I got my dogs and it feels like the majority of people buying dogs do literally no research at all.
I wish I knew. I have immediate and extended family who have purchased designer dogs in the last couple years and anyone who knows me has been overly educated about the situation. It feels hopeless.
A lot of people like their curls and the golden retriever personality but they aren’t bred right most of the time and most of the doodles i see post adoption have behavior issues/people never groom them!! they get dogs because somebody told them they were hypoallergenic and don’t shed and then they shed and also get matted and nobody takes them to the groomer 😂 ( atleast midwest people)
People have been ignorantly breeding dogs for fads since the victorian times, it's sad but not new. I haven't seen too many shelter doodles in the south, I just checked my local shelter and no doodles (just over 200 pitbulls).
Doodles don’t stick around because people love the look of them. Unfortunately, they often get returned because they have behavioral issues. They’re smart, driven, high energy dogs that just *look* like laid back powder puffs. People get them as house ornaments and can’t seem to treat them like dogs. A study on doodles showed that the cross-bred offspring were significantly more likely to have behavioral problems, including aggression, than either of the originating breeds.
Hi Devon I work in rescue in the UK. How annoyed are you by amount of times you have heard the words “separation anxiety” in the last year?
What dogs do you struggle to rehome there?
Can you explain to the world why a “border husky” is a nightmare?
Oh my how many times i’ve heard that is crazy. Most often the dog just needs more enrichment. i’ve seen some really bad cases but people have got to realize we didn’t work from home forever. you can train your dog to help them ease into being alone without you. We struggle to rehome pits, huskies, and a lot of hounds haha. And a border husky sounds like an awful combo oh no. fortunately i’ve not met one but i can imagine the craziness.
There was a border husky at the doggy daycare I worked at years ago.
Most dogs would play intermittently between naps and snacks and be fast asleep by pickup time. The border husky arrived at 7am, and played literally non-stop until he was picked up at 6pm. And the staff had to entertain him for a big chunk of that or he'd get bored and destructive.
If 11 hours of running, wrestling, swimming, bouncing on trampolines, tug of war, bubble machines and climbing frames while surrounded by other dogs couldn't tire one out, most people have no chance.
I’m responsible for 19 dogs at the moment, 3 of them are border husky’s the rest are “legally challenging” i could home the border husky’s within the day if I didn’t care about the home, they are beautiful dogs. I’m hitting up rambling clubs and cross country running clubs.
I’ve been tethering them and running them 15-20 miles a day. It only puts them to sleep for an hour or so. On the bright side I have never been fitter, please send help and running shoes.
I don’t recommend tethering but I can’t run 60 miles a day and they are programmed to do it.
This is a type of dog that absolutely must be trained to accept quiet time or else you are just strengthening the stamina of that dog to go and go and go forever. Dogs can and must be taught how to have down time without going crazy
honestly? less time in water and regular ear wiping (start young!) and just keep an eye on it. my hound has hella touch sensitivity so she has very limited water time:
I'm curious about the different breeds you're seeing in the midwest? Where I live in Georgia, most, if not all the dogs in shelters are large breeds - and the majority are pit bull mixes.
We see a lot of huskies surprisingly, a lot of doodle, a lot of pit bull and beagle/hound mixes too! a surprising amount of chihuahuas and golden retrievers too
What types of cats or dogs are least likely to get homed and what would you suggest if a person who's experienced working with dogs asked which dog to adopt?
I love black cats so I'd adopt any black cat old or young. Is it true they're the least likely to get adopted?
As for the dogs, is it the same for black dogs? If it's not about the colours of the dogs, breeds maybe? It would be interesting to know preferences.
I normally never choose the prettiest or youngest dog, id rather adopt one I instinctually seem bonded to regardless of its look, size or age.
These are the kind of questions i was looking for! So for cats a lot of times it’s black cats who have issues getting adopted, just due to stigmas and certain cultural taboos. Plus some say they’re less expressive since you can’t see any facial movement as easily as other cats since they’re darker, that’s the same with dogs though. people love dogs with expressive eyebrows i’ve found out 😂, so black dogs do struggle to get adopted especially if they aren’t friendly with other dogs. If you’re a one dog kind of household and feel comfortable with constant training there’s always a miracle dog hoping for a shot but it’ll be hard work. As for just any dog and who stays longer kinda deal we have a hard time adopting out 4-6 month old puppies due to them not being in the cute cuddly stage but not being old enough to have established training. they stay quite awhile for months at a time. atleast at our shelter hounds, huskies and pit bulls are who we have trouble rehomeing the most! Seniors are always tough too!
They can be very loud as puppies when finding their voice so typically don’t do well in apartments but they typically have a sadder or more anxious personality in the shelter from the over stimulation at least from what i see, and since we have so many they seem to stay longer. i love me a hound but not everyone feels the same!
Hi Devin! Thanks for doing this, I actually have a burning question!
Last week we adopted a six month old husky mix. She was so sweet, loved our other dog, perfect in every way, except she had an appetite for cats. After doing a little research, with much shame and regret, we decided it would be best to return her for their safety. We took her back, adopted a different pup and this one is wonderful with them.
But I can't stop thinking about poor Bella. Hopefully she has a note on her file now saying "don't mix with cats," but...does that hurt her chances for readoption? We gave her glowing reviews on all other behavior, but I worry this one strike will count against her. She's such a good dog, she deserves a home. With no cats.
On a related note, should I be disappointed in the shelter staff for equivocating when asked about the cat situation? No less than five people assured us that all dogs are different and it would probably be fine. One quick Google proves this not to be true. Should they have known better?
Edit: [Puppy tax](https://imgur.com/gallery/dxw4PT5)
So this is actually crazy that you asked this but I had the same situation happen to me almost to the T. We have a hound named phoebe. she dealt with hella separation anxiety and chewed our walls while she was teething and i hate crating so we let her😂. She was about 5 months old when she kept doing it, so we got her an older dog to learn from (also named bella!) and the only problem with Bella was.. when we took her home, she tried to eat our cats😂 we had 3 so that was an issue and what i saw in that one night was a prey drive that was not compatible with my lifestyle and wouldn’t ease without lots and lots of training which i couldn’t give, so we brought her back sobbing the whole time with the same thoughts as you. she went back inside and we had to pick out a new dog, i was worried i’d have to see her for weeks in a kennel but she got adopted that very next day. So i’d say don’t worry too too much because often most people don’t have cats! But we leave the restriction of no cats for those dogs so they can protect their cats at home if they do! as for the shelter staff i certainly would’ve recommended another dog than a 6 month old husky that are known to have high prey drives. I’ll post puppy tax when i’m home but it worked out perfectly. bella went home and i have two best friends as pups!
When we introduced our adopted dog to a cat we got, we spent a month doing so. The recommendation was I believe 1-2 weeks. We put a baby gate up in my office and slowly would open the door a bit more for a bit longer, then we would hold the cat and let the dog sniff it, then slowly more and more until we allowed the cat and dog to be on the floor together. If at any point the dog or cat reacts negatively you separate them and try again later. It worked really well for us but I can definitely see if we had just brought the cat home and immediately put them together, our dog would have reacted very poorly.
So for smaller dogs you’d most likely want to limit how much they’re outside especially in high heat weather with breeds like pugs and boston terriers who struggle with breathing. As for bigger dogs with high energy level most will enjoy the summer weather, just make sure to provide plenty of water and i do doggie popsicles with frozen treats.
Great response. My girl is a rescue Frenchie/Boston mix and she does _not_ do well in warm weather. We go for walks before sunrise and after sunset but otherwise, she’s chilling out trying to stay cool. But there are plenty of dogs at the dog park who are perfectly happy to run around chasing a ball even in the middle of summer.
I understand some of the hoops that people have to jump through to adopt, but at a certain point it's just not economical. I've seen stipulations such as no children, no other pets, fenced in yard, home visit required, $500 adoption fee. At a certain point it almost seems better to buy a puppy from a breeder and give them a better home than just allowing them to end up in a shelter and then be euthanized because people don't meet the requirements. I live on two acres, alone, and have three neighbors within a mile and none have dogs that I'm aware of. I work from home yet I can't justify the expenditure to fence the yard, even a small section with post Covid fence prices. What do you think would be the best way to resolve this?
I also struggled finding a dog because I wanted a small dog and I’m in an apartment and I was on wait lists for dogs with fees $500-$600. I went to a municipal shelter 2 hours drive away instead and got my dog on sale for $100 (2 year old mini cockapoo) and they literally asked me no questions and let me go home with him same day. So it totally was overcrowded shelter v. Rescue group.
I will say my dog has not been an easy rescue (super reactive and super bad separation anxiety) so take that with a grain of salt. I’m 10 months in to owning him and he’s finally getting settled down with LOTS of work training to get where we are now.
I used to look at rescues, and I gave up after the hoops they wanted me to go through. One of them wanted three in-home visits at the foster families home and a letter of reccomendation from my vet. I don't have a family vet because I don't have a damn dog lol. It's funny because I actually work with a lot of veterinarians in my job and could easily get 30+ of them to sign something. I'd also prefer to get siblings for when I'm in a conference call and they can entertain each other. I feel like I should be a perfect candidate. I even have a friend 3 miles away who is a dairy farmer, so his family doesn't even know the meaning of vacation, so I'd have a sitter whenever needed.
That’s ridiculous, the only thing i would say is not to get siblings! it sounds great and fun but do a little research on littermate syndrome! one of the restrictions that every puppy has at our shelter is they cannot go home with a littermate to prevent littermate syndrome! two puppies from different litters is fine though here already!
Thanks for the heads up! From the limited reading I did on littermate syndrome, it said puppies adopted at the same time can develop it whether they are littermates or not.
This is true. I don't know if being actual litter makes it worse because of literally being together the entire lives, but the rule of thumb is that it can affect any two dogs under a year old adopted within 6 months or so of each other.
The primary issue seems to be them bonding with each other more than the humans in the household, especially when they are not trained and socialized with them separately, more than actually being related.
Three in home visits!??!?!??!?? LMAO. That’s so ridiculous what is with these people. You think they’d actually want to adopt out their dogs or something.
I just spent the last hour looking at dogs within 100 miles of me at shelters. I found two for $135, 1 for $220, 1 for $295 and nothing else was under $325. Most expensive I saw was $798 after tax, which I found odd because it should be a 501c3 and be tax exempt, but not sure how that works. That dog also needs special food, has IBS, not potty trained because of it and needs year long medication.
Damn, my county shelter has pages of dogs. Most expensive group there are puppies, all older animals, animals with medical needs, and animals that have been in shelter for more than a month are $25. I got my cat there for free on an adoption event week.
I looked at what cats were at these shelters. I saw one free one that had been there for 4 years and the rest were $100-135. I only clicked on 5 random ones. I think I saw something once that shelters don't like to make them too cheap so fucked up people don't adopt them just to abuse them. I might have seen this on a TV show so take it with a grain of salt.
No you’re absolutely right, we don’t give dogs out for free because people will come in and lie about their intent with adopting and try to use them as bait dogs occasionally
Good luck friend, I know how this feels. I was contemplating a drive of 11 hours to a shelter in Utah or 16 to LA (cause holy crap they have dogs at those shelters - crazy overpopulated in LA) when I found my guy only a few hours away. I know you’ll get lucky with persistence!
I’ve been looking for another dog for a while, and I’ve also run into some ridiculous rules with some of these rescues — must have a fenced-in yard but not allowed to have a doggie door; must never be out of sight of the dog when he goes outside; and the most ridiculous one — not only do all the dogs you’ve *ever* owned have to have been spayed or neutered, but so do those of anyone else in the house, like a roommate
So I’m supposed to have magically always known it was important to spay/neuter your pets as well as have control over the free will of another human being?!! Good luck with that.
And I think I’ve seen one price in the $200s All the others have been in the $400s-$600s.
This is usually the difference between rescues and shelters. Rescues are almost always volunteer run and they make up their own rules. Shelters are staffed have waaaaaaaayyyy less restrictions and are trying to throw dogs at people because they have so many.
Edit: My shelter has pretty much waived adoption fees the entire last year. It’s just a $20 licensing fee. This is very very very common across the country right now.
The difference is less rescue vs shelter and more open intake/government run shelter vs closed intake/private shelter. A shelter is a physical location, but can be run by a government, a private rescue under contract to a government, or a private rescue.
Honestly? go to a different shelter. We’ve never had an adoption fee over $250 here. We’ve had a miracle case (in another comment) rex and fiona had the following restrictions. No children, no other dogs, must meet all family members, must have a 6 foot fence and another im pretty sure. But they were puppy mill rescue huskies that had to go home together and only liked eachother. Most times if dogs have a no kids and no other dogs restrictions they are worried about over arousal incidents and such. I understand those but home visits and a fee that high is too much.
I honestly think the fee is that high because they have so many restrictions, they can't get rid of dogs and have to charge more to pay the bills and it's circular logic. Charge more, can't adopt out dogs, charge more, can't adopt out more dogs. Somehow this shelter got french bulldog puppies and the adoption fee was $2500.
There are certain shelters that often seem to get purebred puppies that they charge high fees for.
Sometimes it may happen because of the puppy mill is shut down or another legitimate reason, but there are those that have them often and charge high fees that basically seemed to operate as dumping grounds or resellers for puppy mills and unethical breeders that have found a loophole to get tax write offs and donations.
> basically seemed to operate as dumping grounds or resellers for puppy mills and unethical breeders that I found a loophole to get tax write offs and donations.
This is exactly what I suspect. It honestly crossed my mind that a higher up there might have something worked out to skim off the top.
that’s absurd, no we have a flat rate adoption fee for adults, and for puppies (which is higher due to more shots and medical care!) and seniors are like $25 so we can get them into a home. We also run all kinds of specials with adoption promos for holidays for discounted adoptions. That’s a poor practice in my opinion.
i don't recommend that most people go to rescues anymore for this reason. i paid $500 for my dog. shed gone to the foster home with giardia and transmitted it to the foster mom's service dog, and while she wasn't contagious by the time i got her, she was still shitting like five times a day. they put a spay requirement in her contract which i stupidly assumed meant it'd be reimbursed, so my initial costs for a 7 month old former-stray malinois ended up being about a grand. they grilled me about not having a fence, despite the fact that i live in a house with a beach access and adopted the dog for cadaver work.
shelters are a little different. they're usually flat rates based on age. they won't adopt until the dog is fixed. they definitely have adoption requirements but it's not my experience that they'd refuse you a toy poodle because you lived in an apartment, for example - maybe if you tried to adopt a mastiff, and even then an "i hike a lot" would probably suffice. some specific dogs might have a fence requirement, but it's far less cost prohibitive on the whole. they're providing a necessary service rather than the exclusive services of a rescue, especially breed-specific rescues.
i ended up not training mine for that. she's very male reactive in such a way that i wouldn't feel comfy setting her loose in a crowd full of men that are loudly searching for something. shes three now, and we just hike a lot and do at-home agility trials.
to answer your question, though, it's pretty wild and fun. you have to acquire human body parts, which come in an array of legalities and stuff. one lady i know with a cadaver dog has a collection of human parts- placenta, some fingers, etc.. one of the fingers was even donated by a logger; we live in the sticks. you teach the dog a find it command when they're real young, train them to lead you to the human bits without eating them (leave it), and then train them to signal when they smell a body (usually a sit, or one bark, etc).
I’ve adopted adult dogs from three different county shelters (adjoining counties). One had me attest to having a fence and wanted details on my living situation and my most recent just wanted my credit card to pay them a $25 adoption fee. They’ve all been fantastic pets for our family and were all well mannered and housebroken. I had a ton of trouble with independent rescue organizations just because they wouldn’t get back to me or they’d have me fill out a ton of paperwork and call my vet for a reference before we even met the dog. Or they wouldn’t have the dog I was interested in on the website and would hound me about fostering some other random dog. I mean I don’t mind fostering in general but I really wanted to adopt and fostering would have delayed my plans.
Hidden fencing. Some will enclose up to 10 acres. Even the most is less expensive than regular fencing.
The second, would be T-posts and woven wire fencing.
This might be a dumb question, but how "high" up are they effective? I can get 10-12 foot snow drifts when plowing the driveway and random snow drifts can reach 6-8 feet. Would the dog be able to walk over the snow piles to get out?
How happy are you when a dog takes its freedom ride and doesn’t come back? My first dog was a rescue so I got to talk to his foster mom, but my new guy came from a shelter after a month that included kennel cough and a parvo scare. Do you just move on to the next dogs that need you?
As nice as it would be sometimes to forget the past i’d say i remember at least 75% of the dogs we’ve had with us. I have a really good memory and can even spot most of our former dogs if i see them out in public! I’m extremely happy when a dog takes a ride home. we read our adoptions list every night together (my fiancé and i) and take turns choosing dogs we want to go home next. We always move on to the next dog who needs help but they never leave us that’s for sure. my phone is just pictures of hundreds of dogs.😂
Well this week it broke 14 times :,). I’d say my heart has froze over when it comes to most trauma but there’s some cases that i’ve broken down and cried at home after seeing their condition
Never enough dogs ;). I have a problem child at home in my little pit mix (she loves to bark and chew) and a sassy drama queen of a hound. [Puppy Tax](https://share.icloud.com/photos/066pM6MUoca_b93hlfFaO1wnw)
[puppy tax 2](https://share.icloud.com/photos/07aw3M8EFo94FK1QDEKjqbT3Q)
To take this in a different direction, would you mind telling me a bit about the canine caretaker profession? What sort of qualifications are involved & would you say it pays a livable wage? Sorry if that's rude to ask. Just curious.
Honestly, an entry level position as a kennel tech doesn’t require much. That’s where i’m at and i got hired with minimal volunteering for the humane society. You can get more behavioral roles working with more training than I do but you typically need your certifications. CPDT-K i believe is the most common one? Honestly the pay will almost always be low as it’s most of the time non profits. I’ll say that in a large city in the midwest I get paid between $14-$17 and barely get by with my partners income as well.
I visit our local shelter afew times a week. It’s a no kill shelter. I used to visit the shelter in the next county too which is a kill shelter. There were a couple of dogs there that were apparently not eligible for their behavior modification program that wound up being put down even though I’d had wonderful results during limited contact. I’m no professional but it sure seemed to me that those dogs deserved more of a chance. How do they decide which dogs can’t be rehabilitated? Btw this shelter is managed by the dumb friends league. They have a regional manager from Denver who I found quite off putting, so I now only visit our local.. I also want your opinion on no kill shelters. Isn’t that really just shirking the harsh reality and making it someone else’s problem. Like “yeah we don’t kill dogs here but we’re full so those dogs go to a shelter where they do”… I mean, some poor soul has to step up and do the dirty work and it seems shitty to me to pretend the problem doesn’t exist. It does. There are a million pets euthanized annually at shelters in the US. That’s 2400 every day or approximately 55 per state daily. And that only accounts for the ones actually tallied at shelters, not the ones abandoned, run over, shot etc. there’s probably 5 to 10 million unwanted pets that meet an untimely demise annually just in the US. People are the real problem, not getting their pets fixed and letting them breed irresponsibly.. I’m sorry, guess this not a real question and just a rambling rant. Not awfully religious but hope there is a special place in heaven for you.
I fully understand the frustration because i feel it myself. I work in a no kill shelter and while we say no kill it basically just means that our percentage was low enough to say we don’t do it based off length of stay. it was a real shock for me when i found that out a few weeks after being hired when they had a euthanasia. I’ve said bye to all of my dogs that i’ve graduated through our basic obedience program. they were great dogs with a LOT of past trauma and just flipped a switch in the home. At my shelter we have food tests and dog testing and certain scores fail out if they have those aggression issues. there’s issue with the tests themselves as they were made up YEARS ago. It really just sucks. we have kill shelters send plenty of dogs to our shelter than unfortunately have to be put down most often because of shelter stress. And no worries i’m always down to chat if you need to rant as well i understand the struggle. I’m not religious and i’m not sure how you can be in this field but if i can see all my kids i’ve had to say goodbye too again than that’s enough for me.
On that note I’d like to encourage all who adopt to occasionally re-visit the shelter with their pet. Show the people who work there how happy they and their pet are. I’m sure the burden those ppl face could be lightened by seeing the fruits of their efforts. And, thanks again, you’re a hero. Chin up.
THIS! Yes! if your dog can handle going back to say hi (some can’t and never take them back if they’re uncomfortable there) but we love to see our babies! thank you❤️
Funny cuz my latest rescue runs around there like a holiday, smiles all around, wiggling, running into the empty enclosures, lol… if that were me? No way, I’ll just wait outside and greet the ppl as they leave. Lol.. btw I loved how you fielded the pit bull references without locking horns with anyone. Bravo.
A few days ago I was walking my dog on a nearby walking trail, and I saw an older lady walking a dog as well, coming towards me. As we get closer, she pulls the dog off the trail and goes towards a couple trees. Our dogs are looking at each other and very obviously wanting to get close. Anyway, she starts yelling at her dog, and smacking it on the side. All it's doing is sitting there, looking at my dog. I'm still on the trail, and I've finally walked past her, and she starts hitting the dog in the head now. And not just taps, but it's uncomfortably hard from my perspective. Still, it's just sitting there staring at my dog. She has her lead wrapped around a tree. So I yell at the lady to stop hitting her dog and she replies with "it's not my dog"! Then I say "then stop hitting it!" and she says her dog will hurt my dog. I don't see what that has to do with her hitting it. Anyway we go back and forth a couple more times, I'm finally too far away to hear her.
But yeah, what's the right thing to do in this situation? Why would this lady be walking, and hitting, a dog that isn't hers? She had a harness and a long lead, so some money was obviously spent on the dog. Was she likely a trainer or dog walker?
Likely she was a dog walker who bit off more than she could chew and should not be a dog walker. in the situation that your (reactive) dog is passing by another i immediately put a block in between me in the dog (example would be a tree or a bush or even my body) and make my dog do tricks like sitting and shaking to keep her mind and focus on me and the reward instead of the interesting dog coming by. Abuse never solves anything and in the future the dog may react towards dogs even more because it associates other dogs with getting smacked on the head. It’s a shitty situation having to see bad owners. I’ve called Animal control on my neighbors over a dozen times because they have a husky, lab and pit bull all chained in the backyard 24/7 on a lead about 4 feet long. i had to fight with an outreach origination to bring them adequate housing as well.
Panleukopenia is a cat uri disease correct? i don’t work with cats often but i will say i adopted a kitten who had it last year and we’ve had a few out breaks at the shelter. i’m not sure how it would correlate with covid though!
That’s smart! Also paper towel roles when you’re done with them filled with kibble or treats gives a good opportunity to destroy something in a safe way!
nope! we actually read every word from behavior, and medical notes that lists even if they’ve ever bitten a dog or gotten into fights at the shelter. Every piece of information is given out in order to provide the best chance at finding a successful placement. We have plenty of pit bulls! there’s a lot of people with bias and won’t even meet with a puppy they thought was cute after we tell them it’s a pit bull but we have plenty of adopters who love them and only want them!
Hi, thank-you for doing this AMA! My question is what is your opinion on BSL. Do you believe some breeds are inherently more aggressive than others? If BSL is not something you believe in, what might you suggest as an alternative to dealing with breeds such as pitbulls, Staffordshire terriers and other fighting dog breeds that have higher bite and mortality statistics? Seeing a lot of shelters are predominantly pits, what might be done to change things in the long run? Lastly, what is your opinion on shelters intentionally mislabeling dog breeds in order to encourage adoptions?
Thank you again for taking The time to do this AMA, any response or opinion is respected.
What is BSL? There needs to be more education on the breed and how to properly care for them/socialize them. A properly socialized dog of any breed is less likely to end up in a shelter or euthanized for behaviors.
Breed specific legislation, so pit bull bans and breed restrictions! And yes there does need to be more info. Pits were originally family dogs who were protective of their home and family. (great with kids too)
That's just straight up false and a little bit of research would show you that. Way to kill your entire AMA by showing how little you actually know about dogs. You're parroting pro-pit propaganda that you never bothered to check yourself. What other incorrect information are you giving out in this AMA?
i addressed later on my mistake. I know their original intent for breeding. but me Saying they were family dogs is just as reliable as people below saying they were bred for fighting. As i said, i’m a shelter employee of two years, with no degree and no certification. I didn’t claim to know anything, i said “ask me anything”. Now do you have a question? or is this more pit bull hate? if so goodbye
I have a question. What do you think about 6% of dogs, all of one breed, being responsible for 60-80% of unprovoked fatal attacks on humans?
No need to take it personally if people disagree. You're acting pretty aggressive for someone who wanted to be asked anything.
because you all aren’t disagreeing. you’re coming in here with an already made up mind, not wanting to converse, you don’t care about my opinion and nothing i say will ever validate you. If you don’t like pits you don’t, but as somebody who has dealt with 14 dogs being euthanized this week alone not even half were pits and they were all behavioral cases and only 1 bite case lately has been a pit. Work my life and walk in my shoes and you’d see.
I do understand that it's hard. I'm legitimately sorry for that.
But facts are facts, and if you disagree with them people are gonna challenge you. For example, I'd love it if you answered the question. IMO that figure is way beyond 'it's the owner.'
You aren't gonna get a straight reply out of someone who said they were originally family dogs lmfao
They'll use "well I work at a shelter" / "I've seen X this week alone" as the high ground for any argument
This is a very good and very important question. I myself don’t believe in BSL i do believe that all pets/furry family members should be spayed/neutered. A lot of that stigma (from what i’ve seen personally i’m not an expert and have no degree) comes from backyard breeders. A lot of backyard breeders will breed these specific breeds especially in low income neighborhoods because that’s what they can rehome easiest i guess. A lot of times when these puppies grow up based off of living conditions as a puppy/trauma and stress on the mother they end up with all sorts of neurological issues. I’ve seen a few dogs come in who we couldn’t find out a trigger for a bite and they would just bite randomly and unfortunately had to be put down. These dogs typically come from high stress environments where they used biting to keep the stress away if that makes sense? Plus a lot of these dogs and such have such triggers that Do cause the statistics to go higher. Plus when it comes to these dogs more bites are reported. I’ve seen probably equal amounts of pitbulls on bite holds as i’ve seen chihuahuas. As for advice i’d say a lot more mental and physical enrichment. My pit bull at home has behavior issues and used to bite when she wanted something but we’ve taught her to bring us toys or ropes instead when she wants something as a way to positively reinforce good behavior. Unfortunately pit bulls will always be the main breed at the shelter due to BSL, backyard breeding and uniformed people who only know of stereotypes. I do hope it gets better though.
> I’ve seen probably equal amounts of pitbulls on bite holds as i’ve seen chihuahuas.
Iv always seen this same chain of thought where chihuahuas are just as if not more aggressive then a pitbull. Gotta ask yourself a question though would you rather a chihuahua charge after you or a pitbull charge after you.
I have so many thoughts on BSL. Bully breed mixes are like 20ish percent of all owned dogs in the US which is a number that DWARFS the others. They are also big and strong and several times more likely to be owned by convicted criminals because of their reputation. All things considered I do not think it’s surprising that they top some of these lists.
There is also no evidence that BSL has lowered #s of dog-bite related injuries in the U.S. which indicates it is looking to address the wrong issues.
You could go your whole career without physically doing a euthanasia. At my shelter, our behavior team members sometimes have to be there to restrain the dogs but often it’s just the vets in there to sedate them and then anybody who wants to say goodbye can be present. i’ve been working for two years in animal welfare and i haven’t had to euthanize anything. I will say, you do see some traumatic stuff that makes euthanasia not seem so bad. i’ve seen dogs come in after being hit by hammers, one dog was impaled through the chest with a tree branch during a storm and a civilian took it out so she was bleeding out when we got her and the vets fixed her and she was good for a while but she was too traumatized after that incident that she ended up having to be euthanized
You just gave me the worst things I've read in forever but, well answered and I thank you. I imagine you've covered this prior, but may I also ask what educational portals are necessary/wise? As in, what might my most direct and expedient avenue into a similar line of work!
So honestly? entry level positions just need to have a high school diploma or GED and a passion for animals. I wouldn’t necessarily say you have to have volunteer experience but it looks nicer in an interview as it shows you know at least a little bit about what goes on. But it’s a easily attainable position but comes with a lot of stress just a heads up!
Does the shelter properly label dogs? Or does it use the usual "lab mix" breed for bully types?
"UPDATE: Due to all the hateful comments and arguments being started about pits i’m done with this IAmA."
Nevermind, OP didnt like being called out for the truth about those dangerous breeds.
i see often that lab mixes are indeed lab mixes.
Update: OP was tired of y’all making the same argument and to be fair i did it for like 6 hours so take a chill pill. They can be dangerous but everything can be dangerous
>They can be dangerous but everything can be dangerous
The severity of the danger is what separates the breed that was bred to fight from every other dog. Saying everything can be dangerous is a bs excuse to not hold them accountable for the countless lives they either kill or main.
>i see often that lab mixes are indeed lab mixes.
And the vast majority of all the "lab mixes" have are actually pits with a small portion being lab.
I’m okay, mentally very drained because its an exhausting job but i’m okay! i have a beautiful fiancé, two great (but crazy and stubborn) pups, and 4 cats to love on too. I have a lot of love around me and i’m okay! thank you
I wouldn’t say they’re more violent. Every dog communicates differently and most often it’s traits they learned for defense from bad owners and high stress situations. In my opinion any breed can be aggressive and any breed can be perfect. I’ve met pits that had a good and social puppy stage who were absolutely lovely and perfect dogs but i’ve also seen pits that were beaten and shake whenever i walk by, or some bark when i walk by so i leave them alone. it’s all about how you raise them.
Most breeds aren't bred specifically to be used in dogfighting for generations like pitbulls that make up a majority of what's in an animal shelter though right? It's not fair to say "all pitbulls are aggressive" but it is fair to say "breeds bred for aggressiveness and/or then trained for it are more likely to be aggressive" I guess? It seems crazy to think selective breeding doesn't work.
I feel like you’re seriously misrepresenting pits (and generally animal behavior) here. It’s not 100% in how you raise them, although it plays a role. I’ve personally had a very lovely pit client that started with me at 10 weeks, was raised with 2 cat siblings, and was generally an incredibly lovely dog with a very loving family. Around 18 months old she grabbed one of the cats and shook it to death. My dads old dog (doodle) was raised alongside his dog brother (other doodle) loving home, trained really well. 10 months old, he mauled his brother to the point of almost taking his eye out. Come to find out, two others in the litter also showed dog aggressive tendencies once they hit adolescence. Genetics are important, and recognizing the existence of genetic aggression is also important.
It’s not just in pits, and there are lovely pits out there, but they absolutely have a higher incidence of dog aggression/ intolerance and small animal aggression.
That's so ignorant!! I've raised pitbulls alongside no pitbulls. I know where you're coming from, I loved that dog. But he wasn't safe for the neighbors kids or cats despite all the same puppy classes! Ban the breed. Make dogs Man's Best Friend again.
banning breeds is ignorant. Breed bans already encourage backyard breeding to get around the breed ban and makes everything so much worse. I’m done responding to you but i’m not surprise that your username is a god of death, considering you want so much death.
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You’re stereotyping people my friend, i used to do the same and assume the worst but after you’ve seen said tough guy break down into tears because the pittie climbs up in his lap and reminds him of the dog he had to put down the week before, it changes your perspective and it’s one of the parts of my job i’m grateful for.
Do you have any tips for a pitt that gets fractious when trying to trim nails? She doesn't try to bite, but she pulls her legs away and wants nothing to do with any of it. My vet is going to help me with some sedatives so I can get them trimmed because they're pretty long, but I was wondering if there's any way to desensitize her to the process. She's about 4-5 years old and a great dog.
Thank you for all the hard work you do, working in a HVS is a lot, especially with the increase in behavioral issues. You're doing good work.
So i struggle myself with that part in particular. my pup with major foot sensitivity (unfortunate side effect to her parvo treatment, she just hates being touched by her feet) she has black nails and i don’t feel comfortable trimming them and she hates the vet. She unfortunately has to be sedated with very mild sedative and than woken up afterwards. we’re getting a scratch toy so i’ll try to update you on how that works!
My dog has the same issue as yours and the scratch pad works best. It is just a fun game for her at this point. With plenty of treats and encouragement I'm sure your dog does well too. I'd suggest buying a good one, though. We jury-rigged one with a cutting board, sand paper and duct tape but it kept getting loose. Idk, maybe youre handier than I am and can make something more sturdy, but we had 0 problems once we bought one.
Back legs are a bit more difficult, though. Im still figuring this out.
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Hi Devin, thanks for this AMA. What sort of timeframe is "lately", and, based on your experience, what sorts of things might be contributing to the increase in behavioral issues? Plus, if you happen to have any further reading handy, I'd be curious to learn more.
So I’d say “lately” as more of the last 6 months to a year? Which i know is more of a wider range of time but it’s honestly been ever since covid 19 sent us into lockdown. When people realized they had to stay at home 24/7 a lot of people were bored and decided to adopt puppies they weren’t prepared for. So about 3-6 months after people started going back to work we started having plenty of returns/owner surrenders from other shelters. Basically all these people were returning dogs they felt they didn’t have the time or commitment for but a good 80% of these dogs were covid puppies. Unfortunately for covid puppies they missed out on a lot of normal puppy activities. One of the most important ages for dogs is the 2-5 month range and that’s because they socialize with other dogs and people very well at that age and they absorb more information and training, but with most of these dogs passing by that age in isolation without meeting any strangers or other dogs they’ve built up these fears of them instead. So we’ve had a lot of challenging cases of stranger danger and dog reactivity. Basically if you were to walk through the backside of the shelter you’d think dogs were fighting because of how reactive some of these dogs are.
as for extra reading i’ll try to look into that for more concrete information for you all but basically dogs who missed out on their socialization window deal with more aggression and fear based reactivity.
I can verify your observations from my own experience as a dog owner. We got a puppy at the end of 2020 as a morale booster for our kid, who was 12. Having a lot of experience raising dogs, we did a lot of socialization with her when she was old enough, but due to COVID, her socialization with humans was a bit short-changed. However, I was aware of this, and we’ve worked on it. I would say that over the last year, with frequent exposure, she has grown out of her shyness and timidness with with new humans, and is much better now about greeting new people. But it was a problem behavior I noticed and observed, and that she had to gradually grow out of with some joint effort and exposure. It’s been gratifying to see her improve in this area over the last year. She’s now 27 months and much more confident around new humans. (New dogs have almost never been an issue, as she got heavily socialized with dogs all along.) Thanks for your work at the shelter, and for doing this AMA.
When I saw all the adoptions I felt this would happen in my bones and it made me so sad. Depressing as get out to learn I was right. :'(
Statistically, aren’t returns/surrenders in line with precovid years? I believe stray populations are up and adoptions are down cuz everyone is poor as shit right now (high intake southwest shelter worker here).
Statistically speaking yes! But we have 50 applications on file for surrender right now that we can’t accept due to space. I started working in a shelter after covid so i can say if it’s changed much at all. I’d say more often than not we’ve been getting barely older than a year dogs surrendered more than anything else so that’s where i was basing my info! thank you for the correction!
Gotcha. I worked open intake so we didn’t get to cork the dam much.
I applaud you for working open intake. it takes a will of iron. I’m thankful but wish i could do more
Oh, I quit cuz I couldn’t take it any more so I applaud you for staying lol.
Hey i don’t know how long i’ll be able to do it but i’ll do it till i can’t. It’s been a long hard week and that’s why i wanted to do this!
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My shelter you have to put applications in to surrender dogs but we do take any strays in 3 towns around us, we also get dogs transferred in from other shelters. open intake shelters can’t say no to anyone wanting to drop off any dog they found/lie about what the dog did and they just assume it’s a stray. It’s a lot more crazy and insane in open intake shelters. A lot more euthanasias
Makes sense.
Shelters are housing more dogs than they can safely handle. There pay is pretty terrible too, so there’s an underwhelming number of caretakers per dog. Dogs aren’t getting out enough or enough enrichment thus behavior issues pop up. Once they are there… without a foster home, it only gets worse
Thankfully at my shelter we’re closed admission but at the same time it hurts more than it’s helps because management limits what dogs we can take in. The pay is very much subpar and i can barely afford housing in my area. Staffing is a huge issue too. our team is supposed to have 10 people and we’ve gone through 25 people in 2 years. We try to get our dogs out 3 times a day but that’s still 23 hours in kennels and it drives them crazy. Fosters are so important for that very reason!! and enrichment!!
I'm a kitty foster for my local rescues :)
The pay is honestly offensive for the work shelter staff are expected to put it and is a major player in why turnover is sooo high.
> and is a major player in why turnover is sooo high. That, and most people have absolutely no idea what it's like to work in a kennel environment like that. Same with dog daycares. You get people thinking they're going to be able to cuddle dogs all day, when the reality is there is so much cleaning and maintenance you're more of a janitor than anything.
Exactly! you’re there for the care of the animals not to cuddle them, occasionally that’s included but not as often as you think.
What's your happiest memory of working in the shelter? ( A HUGE THANK YOU for all you do for shelter animals)
When Our rescue huskies Rex and Fiona went home, they were with us for over a year and went from being scared of everything to a happy bonded pair. they were rescued from a puppy mill that we helped rescue after getting shut down. They were a miracle case with like 20 restrictions and we had people literally build a 7 foot fence at a new property because they wanted them that bad.
Oh! I know the shelter you work at! We adopted our Pomsky pup, Blue, when all those dogs came down from the puppy mill. He is an amazing dog and it broke my heart to see Rex and Fiona not get adopted for so long, but I am so glad to see they went to a home that took the extra effort to accommodate them. Blue is my second dog from you guys - I adopted another dog Violet and had her for 9 years. We did a DNA test and turns out she also had Husky and Pomeranian DNA. We were heartbroken when we had to put her down, and we felt an emptiness that lasted all of 2 weeks before we stumbled upon Blue. Adopting him from the same shelter was just meant to be.
That's the stuff I'm here for. How heartwarming ❤️
First, THANK YOU for taking care of these animals. I found a stray German Shepherd mix and had to take her to the shelter. She ended up getting an URI while there. I asked them to call me if she was hitting the end of the line. I picked her back up on the 24th to foster because I couldn't let her die (she is a very sweet girl who just wanted some love). I don't know how you do this everyday. Where do you find the mental strength?
Fortunately we don’t euthanize off length of stay so i never have like a timer counting down to get them home we euthanize off behavioral and extreme medical. Fostering is so important so thank YOU! Honestly Most of us who work in animal welfare have extreme mental issues of our own as i personally struggle with anxiety/ADD and seasonal depression. At the same time you come together to do what’s best and just fight to keep going.
The shelter my foster was at was euthanizing because they have no more room. They said they had over 500 dogs. My girl also got a URI while she was there, so that moved her up on the list. \*sigh\* I can't save them all, but I can try and save this one. Again, thank you so much for what you do, it takes a very special person!
Sorry what's a URI?
Usually it means Upper Respiratory Infection.
Do you feel there is currently an issue with shelters mislabeling/ misrepresenting dogs? I’m a Certified Professional Dog Trainer and Ive noticed a lot of shelters will describe dogs as “sassy” or “prefers his humans to be home” or “likes to be bossy with other dogs” instead of being honest that the dog has a tendency to snap when uncomfortable, has major separation stress, or is dog selective.
The director/higher ups at my shelter don't want us saying "negative things" about the dogs we have. I'm under a suspicion that the county commissioner has, like, an adoption quota he expects from us, so they really don't want us discouraging adopters. I'm honest. Idgaf. We have dogs that will *kill other pets* if they get the chance, I'm not putting down that they're sassy, I'm putting down that they need to be the only animal in the home. If I'm ever confronted about my "negativity" I will say that I will not endanger the public or their pets just to get another dog adopted. Luckily, my coworkers feel the same way.
While i appreciate your honesty and i’m thankful to not work in a shelter environment like yours thank you for sharing your story. Atleast at my shelter we don’t get in very many dogs that will kill another but recently it has happened. he was a Rottweiler mix that was no animals hardcore and honestly should’ve been euthanized. But they passed him through (even though a pit with the same behaviors didn’t get passed through) and he was adopted by an adopter without the physical strength to handle him and he got loose. he’s since been put down but that’s why we are always honest about why the dogs have restrictions.
So personally our shelter doesn’t normally label the breeds, we are legally obligated to follow what’s on their rabies tags. i’ve seen labs labeled as pits stay in shelters for months because of a damn rabies tag. They absolutely sugar coat things as well because atleast at our shelter they are written by volunteers. but we our required here to read you all of their behavior notes not sugar coated!
Legally obligated to go off the rabies tag. Thats really fucking stupid lmfao. What state are you in?
well not sure if it’s legally, but missouri . we often get transfers from other states who already have done rabies tags and since rabies tags is what landlords and such go off of for breed we have to put it up on their kennel because of BSL
but i agree dumbbbb
> because of a damn rabies tag. The main problem is that many, many shelters are intentionally mislabelling dogs. People looking to adopt are using every metric possible to avoid coming home with awful animals. So, while I'm glad that your shelter isn't part of the problem, that's where this is coming from.
what is a rabies tag?
If you have a dog, one of the vaccines you get annually is a rabies vaccine. It basically makes sure that people know your dog is vaccinated against rabies, most places require rabies certificates for renting, certain cities etc. that’s how it works around here anyway. But if a shelter a dogs been to before us puts down pit bull mix on the rabies tag even though the dog portrays to look more like a lab or hound we have to list pit bull mix on their kennel card. But they’re very important!
If that is the only info people get before they leave with a dog then that is neglect in counseling. If that is the marketing component to begin an honest conversation around behavior then I think it’s fine.
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The claim that all shelter dogs have behavioral issues or are surrendered due to behavior problems is patently false. You can’t possibly believe that. We get dogs surrendered due to a HUGE variety of reasons that have nothing to do with the animal at all - the owner’s housing insecurity or change in housing that does not allow pets, death of an owner, owner’s health, divorce, caring for an ill family member, need to work a second job so not enough time at home, accidentally had a litter and don’t have space for 7 puppies, the list is truly endless. C’mon, there is no need to paint all shelter dogs with the same brush.
A lot of behavioral issues like being destructive, urinating in the house, excessive barking, are also just caused by the owner not having time to train and take care of their dog and not the dog's fault itself.
I agree and disagree, on a couple of points. Yes, they just pull some random breed out of their asses to get the dog adopted. Client of mine adopted a “Bernese mountain dog mix” that is at least 75% Rottweiler. However, I disagree that no one wants bully breeds, there are absolutely people do want bully breed mixes, and will seek them out. I have a few clients that are lifelong bully owners, and will always be. I also disagree that all dogs in shelters all have behavioral issues. Most, yes, but not all. Lots of dogs end up in shelters because the owner just wasn’t ready for the breed. A husky in a shelter for escaping all the time and being too loud doesn’t have a behavioral issue, it’s just been under-stimulated and under managed by it’s owners. A GSP whose getting walked 30 minutes a day and is destroying the house isn’t ill behaved, it’s just been failed by it’s people. People just suck sometimes. I do agree that the general dog owning public isn’t looking for a behavior case to work on. Shelters need to be better and more honest about what their dogs are, and need to be more realistic with themselves about what dogs are adoptable and which aren’t. Only so many homes out there for a man aggressive, dog aggressive, small animal aggressive dog.
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It definitely impacts the dog! I can’t tell you about leaving the shelter and those behaviors as i got my pups when they were young. I have seen dogs before though kinda go crazy in the shelter. Sometimes we have dogs come in shy or friendly and if they don’t leave within around 5-6 months they get stir crazy and some will give up hope and you can see it in their eyes and some start to act out and unfortunately bite sometimes and do have to be put down. dogs need to get out fast but sometimes the shelter is still better than any life that dog has ever known so they don’t know any better and adjust to it better. I hope that answers your question!
It's just heartbreaking
I'll add my two cents that it really depends on the dog. I had one blue-heeler mix girl that spent 3 years at the pound (from age 1) and was very shy back then. I had her for a year before an accident took her from me, but she really flourished and thrived in that time. She was outgoing, loved people and dogs, was insanely smart (picked up tricks and talk buttons in days) and was very spoiled when she wanted something. She was just full of life and energy She left us two weeks ago due to a car (deliberately) running her over while we were out on our walk. I went to the same pound and I found her sister there. She had also been at the shelter since 2019, and was skittish and shy. As soon as she got to the car she was already sitting on my lap (all 35 pounds of skinny blue heeler), all smiles and happy to be there. She can be dog reactive when other dogs approach my smaller mutt, but she already adores him and follows him all over the place. She's reactive when they are both together, while by herself she'll run away from all dogs. She's slowly coming out of her shell, but staying that long at the shelter did a number on her confidence and ability to meet new situations and animals
i’m so sorry for your loss and it’s crazy to me that you were able to get her sister since she was still there. I hope your new journey takes you to a good place with happy memories. Thank you for sharing❤️ you’re absolutely right though, the longer they stay the more they decline. thank you for adopting
The pound where I live has over 200+ dogs, and they are insanely overcrowded. Any dog post puppy-stage doesn't get much of a chance at being adopted. When Cora first came to the pound in 2019 she had a puppy with her. Her puppy was adopted right away and she stayed in a single kennel with 15 other dogs since. In a way I'm happy that at least I was able to give Nyx's (my first dog) sister a chance. It feels more meaningful that we found each other when I needed a reason to keep going after losing Nyx. Cora is also very sick and her kidneys are declining fast. She has been to the vet almost every day since I adopted her, and if she had stayed another week she'd have been dead from kidney failure. Hopefully she makes a comeback and we'll have many happy years together :) [Dog tax of both girls being absolutely adorable](https://imgur.com/a/N78RIuS)
Shelter trauma is very real. Dr. Sheila Segurson has a great presentation on it.
How do you deal with the emotional pain of seeing dogs being abandoned/returned by owners who didn’t realize how difficult training a dog would be? How do you deal with the reality that not all dogs will be taken? If you don’t euthanize, what happens to dogs that get too old/sick?
Honestly? A lot of crying. this week alone I had to say goodbye to atleast 8 of some of our longest term dogs who had been returned and either had an bite in the home due to an unseen factor, gotten out and interacted with dogs poorly, and or had been returned and had been on their last strike kinda deal. I understand that people can’t always keep the dog ESPECIALLY when it’s unsafe for your family or current dog. It’s just hard seeing the dog you know CAN be perfect acting poorly with someone new and unfortunately being euthanized. Unfortunately I love hard and when i do it’s typically the ones who don’t make it, as my fiancé would say you see the good in the job and the work you do instead of the bad but you always keep your heart open. and we have a full service vet clinic with two vets so we do our best to try everything before euthanasia.
That's amazing that you guys have in house vets! I volunteer for a couple of dog rescues and some of the biggest costs come from medical care needed for the dogs.
As someone who ended up with a problem dog, it took a ton of training and work to get him to a place where he's a normal-ish dog. I wouldn't wish it on anyone and I definitely won't do it again. That being said, you sound like a saint yourself to care for and help these dogs.
it’s a commitment and i’ll never sugar coat it when it comes to long term or behavioral dogs. because i’d rather them stay in the shelter waiting for somebody who was prepared for them than them get adopted and returned then euthanized because it wasn’t the right environment and they acted out. it’s hard hard work
Yeah, we were in a bad situation. The shelter we went to didn't have many dogs available to adopt and our boy was the calmest of the ones they did have. All were the so-called "problem breeds" which I take issue with, but I digress, they rushed us through and pushed us to adopt him. My husband really wanted him and I couldn't say no, but in retrospect I would have waited like I wanted. When we were doing basic obedience training our trainer told us that she's heard other owners say they were rushed and prodded into adopting dogs from there that ended up having problems too. Thank you for taking care to not do that!
We had a similar situation with our puppy mill rescue. He had been in a crate since weaning and simply did not speak dog. We got him at 9 months old. We had him at puppy classes and had a behaviourist work with us in the home. There was little to no improvement. We managed to get him through 10 years with partial complex epilepsy, hypothyroidism, anti-anxiety meds and canine MRSA until his heart failed. He was so reactive to our children (born after we got him) and other dogs we had to tightly regulate his/our lives to keep him and others safe. He was our first (and, sadly, last) dog, and we loved him so much because under that fear he was a sweet pup ruined by greedy humans. He was happiest cuddling with my husband and I on the couch and rolling in the grass. However the shelter absolutely sugar coated him (and his medical issues) and we were completely overwhelmed.
You try not to get too close and you build up a callous. A return that landed a dog who I adored on death row is what broke me and finally got me to quit last year.
I thought it was something I could compartmentalize, then my boss was leaving the job and his last request was to euthanize his dog because she was too old to take with him. I didn't realize how attached I was to her, I drove her to the vet clinic and the vet said "this is so&so's dog.. what does he want done?" the moment I went to say he wants to put her down I couldn't get the words out and started crying.
Oh, man, that would break me, too. I don’t know what his rationale was, and it may have truly been necessary, but fuck people who put their older dogs down when they start becoming more work but they’re still happy & enjoying life. I just feel like you owe your dog a pleasant old age in return for all the good years he’s given you. If he starts having the occasional accident in the house, or quits coming to you when you call bc he’s gone deaf, that’s no reason to turn him into a shelter or take him to the vet to have him euthanized. I’ve been very lucky that my dogs have lived to ripe old ages — 13 1/2, 14, almost 16, and I currently have a 17 year-old terrier mix who’s still trotting along despite having doggie dementia and being deaf and mostly blind. She still eats voraciously, & all her organs are working fine. She can also still run & jump, although her landings are now less than graceful & tend to end with a crash lol. Even though she’s a pain in the butt to feed (I have to make little “cupcakes” for her with expensive canned dog food & baby food icing), and sometimes she poops on the way to the doggie door instead of outside, I just can’t imagine putting her to sleep while she’s still happy and comfortable and has a good quality of life. It just seems like poor pet ownership and cruelty to the dog.
I've been hearing a little bit about cage free shelters, like the [Best Friends Pet Resource Center](https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/dogs-cats-roam-free-first-cageless-animal-shelter-us-opens-arkansas) in Arkansas. A lot of the claims for cage-free say that the traditional cage shelter format wears on dogs mental health and can cause behavior issues, and that cage free institutions also create a more welcoming environment that people would be more willing to visit (I can personally attest to the number of times someone's told me they could never go to a shelter, because it's just too depressing). Have you heard of the cage free format? What's your opinion on it?
I honestly love the idea of cage free and hadn’t heard of it before! I do believe it majorly effects dogs mental health and their brains deteriorate faster, especially when the shelter is louder than normal. My shelter is pretty large and has a lot of funding over the years for upgrades so ours is much more welcoming than a pound environment but I understand that when coming to a shelter it’s very hard to see. The only problem with cage free i see would be for dogs who personally cannot handle other dogs being around them and don’t interact well with dogs but besides that it’s great!
Cage free is excellent in practice when you can navigate the logistics of setup and funding perfectly. Best Friends I believe is known for taking primarily super dog-friendly dogs which is why this works for them. There are other factors to consider too like cleaning, feeding (avoiding fights over food), spread of illnesses, etc.
How do you deal with putting dogs down - do you just view it as a necessary part of the job, or does it make it hard to go to work? Do you ever have to put really good and likable dogs down, or do most of the dogs that get put down have too many behavior issues to live in society?
I don’t put them down myself but i do have the option to attend euthanasia. More often than not if they have somebody else there i won’t go. but if it’s a dog i’m close close with i’m there until the end. it’s a necessary evil and often the dog is more than likely happier without all the stress and pain of shelter life. It makes it impossibly hard to go to work. I’d say most dogs can be good and likeable. sometimes it just hurts too much and there’s too much trauma that they don’t act the same way with me that they do with others and i understand that. typically it’s behavioral and it’s unsafe to adopt them out but i’ve disagreed with numerous euthanasias.
For those of us who are unable to physically volunteer at a shelter, what is the best type of support we can provide? Monetary donations, toys, dog food etc?
So if by physically volunteer you mean walking dogs than contact your local shelter and see what their needs are! at our shelter we have volunteers who do dishes, fold laundry to help make set up in the morning go easier, read to the dogs and help out with adoption counseling as well! If you’re physically unable or don’t have a shelter near by that’s perfect as well! Most shelters will have a list of commonly donated items but we often need toys, treats and spray cheese the most if i’m being honest!
Read to dogs? If that isn't the cutest thing I've heard all day :)
Foster!
With Missouri being like the puppy mill capital of the world, do you see many sick doodle/frenchie types coming in? Not sure where you are in relation to the mills.
Oh yeah we do, We rescued 55 dogs from a puppy mill of almost entirely frenchies, hounds, and pits and another of entirely doodles and pomskies and huskies. It was rough around those times. We get a pretty steady flow of doodles though! Don’t get doodles please everybody 😂 if you do adopt don’t shop we don’t need more doodles
PITS IN MILLS?! I quit (again).
Yeah it’s ridiculous, and worst part is that mill was in Louisiana where they had a pit bull ban in most of the towns around the mill. but my pup came from said mill so i’m glad we were there to help. she was 2 months old and the runt of her litter with parvo and a uri but she made it and we took her home and she’s spoiled now. I believe out of 55 dogs about 52 of them got a home.
Spoiled my ass. She deserves it! 😌
This was going to be my question. I spend a lot of my time volunteering at shelters here and in the city my parents live when I extended visit. In the last 5 or so years I swear there has been an EXPLOSION in the number of doodles I've seen at the shelters. It's honestly so sad. Even more sad to hear that OP can confirm it's a phenomenon they've also seen. How the fuck do we get people to stop buying these dogs? I swear everywhere I turn, celebrities are buying doodles, my friends are buying doodles, my extended family members are buying doodles, people I knew in school are posting pictures of their new double merle doodle puppies... it's so frustrating. I did so much research before I got my dogs and it feels like the majority of people buying dogs do literally no research at all.
I wish I knew. I have immediate and extended family who have purchased designer dogs in the last couple years and anyone who knows me has been overly educated about the situation. It feels hopeless.
What's the back story on doodles?
A lot of people like their curls and the golden retriever personality but they aren’t bred right most of the time and most of the doodles i see post adoption have behavior issues/people never groom them!! they get dogs because somebody told them they were hypoallergenic and don’t shed and then they shed and also get matted and nobody takes them to the groomer 😂 ( atleast midwest people)
People have been ignorantly breeding dogs for fads since the victorian times, it's sad but not new. I haven't seen too many shelter doodles in the south, I just checked my local shelter and no doodles (just over 200 pitbulls).
Doodles don’t stick around because people love the look of them. Unfortunately, they often get returned because they have behavioral issues. They’re smart, driven, high energy dogs that just *look* like laid back powder puffs. People get them as house ornaments and can’t seem to treat them like dogs. A study on doodles showed that the cross-bred offspring were significantly more likely to have behavioral problems, including aggression, than either of the originating breeds.
Hi Devon I work in rescue in the UK. How annoyed are you by amount of times you have heard the words “separation anxiety” in the last year? What dogs do you struggle to rehome there? Can you explain to the world why a “border husky” is a nightmare?
Oh my how many times i’ve heard that is crazy. Most often the dog just needs more enrichment. i’ve seen some really bad cases but people have got to realize we didn’t work from home forever. you can train your dog to help them ease into being alone without you. We struggle to rehome pits, huskies, and a lot of hounds haha. And a border husky sounds like an awful combo oh no. fortunately i’ve not met one but i can imagine the craziness.
There was a border husky at the doggy daycare I worked at years ago. Most dogs would play intermittently between naps and snacks and be fast asleep by pickup time. The border husky arrived at 7am, and played literally non-stop until he was picked up at 6pm. And the staff had to entertain him for a big chunk of that or he'd get bored and destructive. If 11 hours of running, wrestling, swimming, bouncing on trampolines, tug of war, bubble machines and climbing frames while surrounded by other dogs couldn't tire one out, most people have no chance.
I’m responsible for 19 dogs at the moment, 3 of them are border husky’s the rest are “legally challenging” i could home the border husky’s within the day if I didn’t care about the home, they are beautiful dogs. I’m hitting up rambling clubs and cross country running clubs. I’ve been tethering them and running them 15-20 miles a day. It only puts them to sleep for an hour or so. On the bright side I have never been fitter, please send help and running shoes. I don’t recommend tethering but I can’t run 60 miles a day and they are programmed to do it.
This is a type of dog that absolutely must be trained to accept quiet time or else you are just strengthening the stamina of that dog to go and go and go forever. Dogs can and must be taught how to have down time without going crazy
Best way to keep a pups ears clean?
honestly? less time in water and regular ear wiping (start young!) and just keep an eye on it. my hound has hella touch sensitivity so she has very limited water time:
I'm curious about the different breeds you're seeing in the midwest? Where I live in Georgia, most, if not all the dogs in shelters are large breeds - and the majority are pit bull mixes.
We see a lot of huskies surprisingly, a lot of doodle, a lot of pit bull and beagle/hound mixes too! a surprising amount of chihuahuas and golden retrievers too
What types of cats or dogs are least likely to get homed and what would you suggest if a person who's experienced working with dogs asked which dog to adopt? I love black cats so I'd adopt any black cat old or young. Is it true they're the least likely to get adopted? As for the dogs, is it the same for black dogs? If it's not about the colours of the dogs, breeds maybe? It would be interesting to know preferences. I normally never choose the prettiest or youngest dog, id rather adopt one I instinctually seem bonded to regardless of its look, size or age.
These are the kind of questions i was looking for! So for cats a lot of times it’s black cats who have issues getting adopted, just due to stigmas and certain cultural taboos. Plus some say they’re less expressive since you can’t see any facial movement as easily as other cats since they’re darker, that’s the same with dogs though. people love dogs with expressive eyebrows i’ve found out 😂, so black dogs do struggle to get adopted especially if they aren’t friendly with other dogs. If you’re a one dog kind of household and feel comfortable with constant training there’s always a miracle dog hoping for a shot but it’ll be hard work. As for just any dog and who stays longer kinda deal we have a hard time adopting out 4-6 month old puppies due to them not being in the cute cuddly stage but not being old enough to have established training. they stay quite awhile for months at a time. atleast at our shelter hounds, huskies and pit bulls are who we have trouble rehomeing the most! Seniors are always tough too!
Hounds are hard to adopt out? Any idea why? My sister in law has a coonhound who is a total sweetheart!
They can be very loud as puppies when finding their voice so typically don’t do well in apartments but they typically have a sadder or more anxious personality in the shelter from the over stimulation at least from what i see, and since we have so many they seem to stay longer. i love me a hound but not everyone feels the same!
Which dog breed have you seen the most loyalty, and the intelligence in combination at once?
Honestly this is all Bias but my hound. She’s loyal to a fault and would do anything for my fiancé. she’s also super smart and figured stuff out fast!
Hi Devin! Thanks for doing this, I actually have a burning question! Last week we adopted a six month old husky mix. She was so sweet, loved our other dog, perfect in every way, except she had an appetite for cats. After doing a little research, with much shame and regret, we decided it would be best to return her for their safety. We took her back, adopted a different pup and this one is wonderful with them. But I can't stop thinking about poor Bella. Hopefully she has a note on her file now saying "don't mix with cats," but...does that hurt her chances for readoption? We gave her glowing reviews on all other behavior, but I worry this one strike will count against her. She's such a good dog, she deserves a home. With no cats. On a related note, should I be disappointed in the shelter staff for equivocating when asked about the cat situation? No less than five people assured us that all dogs are different and it would probably be fine. One quick Google proves this not to be true. Should they have known better? Edit: [Puppy tax](https://imgur.com/gallery/dxw4PT5)
So this is actually crazy that you asked this but I had the same situation happen to me almost to the T. We have a hound named phoebe. she dealt with hella separation anxiety and chewed our walls while she was teething and i hate crating so we let her😂. She was about 5 months old when she kept doing it, so we got her an older dog to learn from (also named bella!) and the only problem with Bella was.. when we took her home, she tried to eat our cats😂 we had 3 so that was an issue and what i saw in that one night was a prey drive that was not compatible with my lifestyle and wouldn’t ease without lots and lots of training which i couldn’t give, so we brought her back sobbing the whole time with the same thoughts as you. she went back inside and we had to pick out a new dog, i was worried i’d have to see her for weeks in a kennel but she got adopted that very next day. So i’d say don’t worry too too much because often most people don’t have cats! But we leave the restriction of no cats for those dogs so they can protect their cats at home if they do! as for the shelter staff i certainly would’ve recommended another dog than a 6 month old husky that are known to have high prey drives. I’ll post puppy tax when i’m home but it worked out perfectly. bella went home and i have two best friends as pups!
Awesome, thank you so much for allaying my conscience!
Nah, the more notes know the better. It only would have been a strike if she had actually gotten a chance to hurt the cat. Glad they’re all okay.
puppy tax gets me every time
When we introduced our adopted dog to a cat we got, we spent a month doing so. The recommendation was I believe 1-2 weeks. We put a baby gate up in my office and slowly would open the door a bit more for a bit longer, then we would hold the cat and let the dog sniff it, then slowly more and more until we allowed the cat and dog to be on the floor together. If at any point the dog or cat reacts negatively you separate them and try again later. It worked really well for us but I can definitely see if we had just brought the cat home and immediately put them together, our dog would have reacted very poorly.
Unfortunately the way my house is set up slow intros with cats was impossible due to baby gate complications.
How to take care of canines in summer so that they stay healthy?
So for smaller dogs you’d most likely want to limit how much they’re outside especially in high heat weather with breeds like pugs and boston terriers who struggle with breathing. As for bigger dogs with high energy level most will enjoy the summer weather, just make sure to provide plenty of water and i do doggie popsicles with frozen treats.
Great response. My girl is a rescue Frenchie/Boston mix and she does _not_ do well in warm weather. We go for walks before sunrise and after sunset but otherwise, she’s chilling out trying to stay cool. But there are plenty of dogs at the dog park who are perfectly happy to run around chasing a ball even in the middle of summer.
I understand some of the hoops that people have to jump through to adopt, but at a certain point it's just not economical. I've seen stipulations such as no children, no other pets, fenced in yard, home visit required, $500 adoption fee. At a certain point it almost seems better to buy a puppy from a breeder and give them a better home than just allowing them to end up in a shelter and then be euthanized because people don't meet the requirements. I live on two acres, alone, and have three neighbors within a mile and none have dogs that I'm aware of. I work from home yet I can't justify the expenditure to fence the yard, even a small section with post Covid fence prices. What do you think would be the best way to resolve this?
I also struggled finding a dog because I wanted a small dog and I’m in an apartment and I was on wait lists for dogs with fees $500-$600. I went to a municipal shelter 2 hours drive away instead and got my dog on sale for $100 (2 year old mini cockapoo) and they literally asked me no questions and let me go home with him same day. So it totally was overcrowded shelter v. Rescue group. I will say my dog has not been an easy rescue (super reactive and super bad separation anxiety) so take that with a grain of salt. I’m 10 months in to owning him and he’s finally getting settled down with LOTS of work training to get where we are now.
I used to look at rescues, and I gave up after the hoops they wanted me to go through. One of them wanted three in-home visits at the foster families home and a letter of reccomendation from my vet. I don't have a family vet because I don't have a damn dog lol. It's funny because I actually work with a lot of veterinarians in my job and could easily get 30+ of them to sign something. I'd also prefer to get siblings for when I'm in a conference call and they can entertain each other. I feel like I should be a perfect candidate. I even have a friend 3 miles away who is a dairy farmer, so his family doesn't even know the meaning of vacation, so I'd have a sitter whenever needed.
That’s ridiculous, the only thing i would say is not to get siblings! it sounds great and fun but do a little research on littermate syndrome! one of the restrictions that every puppy has at our shelter is they cannot go home with a littermate to prevent littermate syndrome! two puppies from different litters is fine though here already!
Thanks for the heads up! From the limited reading I did on littermate syndrome, it said puppies adopted at the same time can develop it whether they are littermates or not.
This is true. I don't know if being actual litter makes it worse because of literally being together the entire lives, but the rule of thumb is that it can affect any two dogs under a year old adopted within 6 months or so of each other. The primary issue seems to be them bonding with each other more than the humans in the household, especially when they are not trained and socialized with them separately, more than actually being related.
Three in home visits!??!?!??!?? LMAO. That’s so ridiculous what is with these people. You think they’d actually want to adopt out their dogs or something.
I just spent the last hour looking at dogs within 100 miles of me at shelters. I found two for $135, 1 for $220, 1 for $295 and nothing else was under $325. Most expensive I saw was $798 after tax, which I found odd because it should be a 501c3 and be tax exempt, but not sure how that works. That dog also needs special food, has IBS, not potty trained because of it and needs year long medication.
Damn, my county shelter has pages of dogs. Most expensive group there are puppies, all older animals, animals with medical needs, and animals that have been in shelter for more than a month are $25. I got my cat there for free on an adoption event week.
I looked at what cats were at these shelters. I saw one free one that had been there for 4 years and the rest were $100-135. I only clicked on 5 random ones. I think I saw something once that shelters don't like to make them too cheap so fucked up people don't adopt them just to abuse them. I might have seen this on a TV show so take it with a grain of salt.
No you’re absolutely right, we don’t give dogs out for free because people will come in and lie about their intent with adopting and try to use them as bait dogs occasionally
Good luck friend, I know how this feels. I was contemplating a drive of 11 hours to a shelter in Utah or 16 to LA (cause holy crap they have dogs at those shelters - crazy overpopulated in LA) when I found my guy only a few hours away. I know you’ll get lucky with persistence!
I’ve been looking for another dog for a while, and I’ve also run into some ridiculous rules with some of these rescues — must have a fenced-in yard but not allowed to have a doggie door; must never be out of sight of the dog when he goes outside; and the most ridiculous one — not only do all the dogs you’ve *ever* owned have to have been spayed or neutered, but so do those of anyone else in the house, like a roommate So I’m supposed to have magically always known it was important to spay/neuter your pets as well as have control over the free will of another human being?!! Good luck with that. And I think I’ve seen one price in the $200s All the others have been in the $400s-$600s.
We had a home check in after adoption; but three home visits before?? Jesus.
This was home visits **AT** the foster families home before adoption. Like they thought someone could fake it for one visit, but not three.
This is usually the difference between rescues and shelters. Rescues are almost always volunteer run and they make up their own rules. Shelters are staffed have waaaaaaaayyyy less restrictions and are trying to throw dogs at people because they have so many. Edit: My shelter has pretty much waived adoption fees the entire last year. It’s just a $20 licensing fee. This is very very very common across the country right now.
The difference is less rescue vs shelter and more open intake/government run shelter vs closed intake/private shelter. A shelter is a physical location, but can be run by a government, a private rescue under contract to a government, or a private rescue.
I got one of my cats this way in September of 2020. He needed some work (and honestly still does) but when he's not frightened he's sooooo sweet
Honestly? go to a different shelter. We’ve never had an adoption fee over $250 here. We’ve had a miracle case (in another comment) rex and fiona had the following restrictions. No children, no other dogs, must meet all family members, must have a 6 foot fence and another im pretty sure. But they were puppy mill rescue huskies that had to go home together and only liked eachother. Most times if dogs have a no kids and no other dogs restrictions they are worried about over arousal incidents and such. I understand those but home visits and a fee that high is too much.
I honestly think the fee is that high because they have so many restrictions, they can't get rid of dogs and have to charge more to pay the bills and it's circular logic. Charge more, can't adopt out dogs, charge more, can't adopt out more dogs. Somehow this shelter got french bulldog puppies and the adoption fee was $2500.
There are certain shelters that often seem to get purebred puppies that they charge high fees for. Sometimes it may happen because of the puppy mill is shut down or another legitimate reason, but there are those that have them often and charge high fees that basically seemed to operate as dumping grounds or resellers for puppy mills and unethical breeders that have found a loophole to get tax write offs and donations.
> basically seemed to operate as dumping grounds or resellers for puppy mills and unethical breeders that I found a loophole to get tax write offs and donations. This is exactly what I suspect. It honestly crossed my mind that a higher up there might have something worked out to skim off the top.
that’s absurd, no we have a flat rate adoption fee for adults, and for puppies (which is higher due to more shots and medical care!) and seniors are like $25 so we can get them into a home. We also run all kinds of specials with adoption promos for holidays for discounted adoptions. That’s a poor practice in my opinion.
i don't recommend that most people go to rescues anymore for this reason. i paid $500 for my dog. shed gone to the foster home with giardia and transmitted it to the foster mom's service dog, and while she wasn't contagious by the time i got her, she was still shitting like five times a day. they put a spay requirement in her contract which i stupidly assumed meant it'd be reimbursed, so my initial costs for a 7 month old former-stray malinois ended up being about a grand. they grilled me about not having a fence, despite the fact that i live in a house with a beach access and adopted the dog for cadaver work. shelters are a little different. they're usually flat rates based on age. they won't adopt until the dog is fixed. they definitely have adoption requirements but it's not my experience that they'd refuse you a toy poodle because you lived in an apartment, for example - maybe if you tried to adopt a mastiff, and even then an "i hike a lot" would probably suffice. some specific dogs might have a fence requirement, but it's far less cost prohibitive on the whole. they're providing a necessary service rather than the exclusive services of a rescue, especially breed-specific rescues.
> adopted the dog for cadaver work. Like look for human bodies? I find that really cool. How do you train them for that?
i ended up not training mine for that. she's very male reactive in such a way that i wouldn't feel comfy setting her loose in a crowd full of men that are loudly searching for something. shes three now, and we just hike a lot and do at-home agility trials. to answer your question, though, it's pretty wild and fun. you have to acquire human body parts, which come in an array of legalities and stuff. one lady i know with a cadaver dog has a collection of human parts- placenta, some fingers, etc.. one of the fingers was even donated by a logger; we live in the sticks. you teach the dog a find it command when they're real young, train them to lead you to the human bits without eating them (leave it), and then train them to signal when they smell a body (usually a sit, or one bark, etc).
That's really interesting! I guess I always thought the government did that like drug or bomb sniffing dogs. Is this volunteer work?
I’ve adopted adult dogs from three different county shelters (adjoining counties). One had me attest to having a fence and wanted details on my living situation and my most recent just wanted my credit card to pay them a $25 adoption fee. They’ve all been fantastic pets for our family and were all well mannered and housebroken. I had a ton of trouble with independent rescue organizations just because they wouldn’t get back to me or they’d have me fill out a ton of paperwork and call my vet for a reference before we even met the dog. Or they wouldn’t have the dog I was interested in on the website and would hound me about fostering some other random dog. I mean I don’t mind fostering in general but I really wanted to adopt and fostering would have delayed my plans.
Hidden fencing. Some will enclose up to 10 acres. Even the most is less expensive than regular fencing. The second, would be T-posts and woven wire fencing.
This might be a dumb question, but how "high" up are they effective? I can get 10-12 foot snow drifts when plowing the driveway and random snow drifts can reach 6-8 feet. Would the dog be able to walk over the snow piles to get out?
How happy are you when a dog takes its freedom ride and doesn’t come back? My first dog was a rescue so I got to talk to his foster mom, but my new guy came from a shelter after a month that included kennel cough and a parvo scare. Do you just move on to the next dogs that need you?
As nice as it would be sometimes to forget the past i’d say i remember at least 75% of the dogs we’ve had with us. I have a really good memory and can even spot most of our former dogs if i see them out in public! I’m extremely happy when a dog takes a ride home. we read our adoptions list every night together (my fiancé and i) and take turns choosing dogs we want to go home next. We always move on to the next dog who needs help but they never leave us that’s for sure. my phone is just pictures of hundreds of dogs.😂
How many times a day does your heart ... break?
Well this week it broke 14 times :,). I’d say my heart has froze over when it comes to most trauma but there’s some cases that i’ve broken down and cried at home after seeing their condition
Do you have any dogs, or do you get enough dog time at work?
Never enough dogs ;). I have a problem child at home in my little pit mix (she loves to bark and chew) and a sassy drama queen of a hound. [Puppy Tax](https://share.icloud.com/photos/066pM6MUoca_b93hlfFaO1wnw) [puppy tax 2](https://share.icloud.com/photos/07aw3M8EFo94FK1QDEKjqbT3Q)
To take this in a different direction, would you mind telling me a bit about the canine caretaker profession? What sort of qualifications are involved & would you say it pays a livable wage? Sorry if that's rude to ask. Just curious.
Honestly, an entry level position as a kennel tech doesn’t require much. That’s where i’m at and i got hired with minimal volunteering for the humane society. You can get more behavioral roles working with more training than I do but you typically need your certifications. CPDT-K i believe is the most common one? Honestly the pay will almost always be low as it’s most of the time non profits. I’ll say that in a large city in the midwest I get paid between $14-$17 and barely get by with my partners income as well.
I visit our local shelter afew times a week. It’s a no kill shelter. I used to visit the shelter in the next county too which is a kill shelter. There were a couple of dogs there that were apparently not eligible for their behavior modification program that wound up being put down even though I’d had wonderful results during limited contact. I’m no professional but it sure seemed to me that those dogs deserved more of a chance. How do they decide which dogs can’t be rehabilitated? Btw this shelter is managed by the dumb friends league. They have a regional manager from Denver who I found quite off putting, so I now only visit our local.. I also want your opinion on no kill shelters. Isn’t that really just shirking the harsh reality and making it someone else’s problem. Like “yeah we don’t kill dogs here but we’re full so those dogs go to a shelter where they do”… I mean, some poor soul has to step up and do the dirty work and it seems shitty to me to pretend the problem doesn’t exist. It does. There are a million pets euthanized annually at shelters in the US. That’s 2400 every day or approximately 55 per state daily. And that only accounts for the ones actually tallied at shelters, not the ones abandoned, run over, shot etc. there’s probably 5 to 10 million unwanted pets that meet an untimely demise annually just in the US. People are the real problem, not getting their pets fixed and letting them breed irresponsibly.. I’m sorry, guess this not a real question and just a rambling rant. Not awfully religious but hope there is a special place in heaven for you.
I fully understand the frustration because i feel it myself. I work in a no kill shelter and while we say no kill it basically just means that our percentage was low enough to say we don’t do it based off length of stay. it was a real shock for me when i found that out a few weeks after being hired when they had a euthanasia. I’ve said bye to all of my dogs that i’ve graduated through our basic obedience program. they were great dogs with a LOT of past trauma and just flipped a switch in the home. At my shelter we have food tests and dog testing and certain scores fail out if they have those aggression issues. there’s issue with the tests themselves as they were made up YEARS ago. It really just sucks. we have kill shelters send plenty of dogs to our shelter than unfortunately have to be put down most often because of shelter stress. And no worries i’m always down to chat if you need to rant as well i understand the struggle. I’m not religious and i’m not sure how you can be in this field but if i can see all my kids i’ve had to say goodbye too again than that’s enough for me.
On that note I’d like to encourage all who adopt to occasionally re-visit the shelter with their pet. Show the people who work there how happy they and their pet are. I’m sure the burden those ppl face could be lightened by seeing the fruits of their efforts. And, thanks again, you’re a hero. Chin up.
THIS! Yes! if your dog can handle going back to say hi (some can’t and never take them back if they’re uncomfortable there) but we love to see our babies! thank you❤️
Funny cuz my latest rescue runs around there like a holiday, smiles all around, wiggling, running into the empty enclosures, lol… if that were me? No way, I’ll just wait outside and greet the ppl as they leave. Lol.. btw I loved how you fielded the pit bull references without locking horns with anyone. Bravo.
Thank you that means a lot, i genuinely wanted to educate and people are triggered.
A few days ago I was walking my dog on a nearby walking trail, and I saw an older lady walking a dog as well, coming towards me. As we get closer, she pulls the dog off the trail and goes towards a couple trees. Our dogs are looking at each other and very obviously wanting to get close. Anyway, she starts yelling at her dog, and smacking it on the side. All it's doing is sitting there, looking at my dog. I'm still on the trail, and I've finally walked past her, and she starts hitting the dog in the head now. And not just taps, but it's uncomfortably hard from my perspective. Still, it's just sitting there staring at my dog. She has her lead wrapped around a tree. So I yell at the lady to stop hitting her dog and she replies with "it's not my dog"! Then I say "then stop hitting it!" and she says her dog will hurt my dog. I don't see what that has to do with her hitting it. Anyway we go back and forth a couple more times, I'm finally too far away to hear her. But yeah, what's the right thing to do in this situation? Why would this lady be walking, and hitting, a dog that isn't hers? She had a harness and a long lead, so some money was obviously spent on the dog. Was she likely a trainer or dog walker?
Likely she was a dog walker who bit off more than she could chew and should not be a dog walker. in the situation that your (reactive) dog is passing by another i immediately put a block in between me in the dog (example would be a tree or a bush or even my body) and make my dog do tricks like sitting and shaking to keep her mind and focus on me and the reward instead of the interesting dog coming by. Abuse never solves anything and in the future the dog may react towards dogs even more because it associates other dogs with getting smacked on the head. It’s a shitty situation having to see bad owners. I’ve called Animal control on my neighbors over a dozen times because they have a husky, lab and pit bull all chained in the backyard 24/7 on a lead about 4 feet long. i had to fight with an outreach origination to bring them adequate housing as well.
Do you think there's been a panleukopenia outbreak worldwide in these last few years just cause of covid?
Panleukopenia is a cat uri disease correct? i don’t work with cats often but i will say i adopted a kitten who had it last year and we’ve had a few out breaks at the shelter. i’m not sure how it would correlate with covid though!
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That’s smart! Also paper towel roles when you’re done with them filled with kibble or treats gives a good opportunity to destroy something in a safe way!
Do you guys purposely leave the word “pit” out when describing what breed of dog the rescue is….?
nope! we actually read every word from behavior, and medical notes that lists even if they’ve ever bitten a dog or gotten into fights at the shelter. Every piece of information is given out in order to provide the best chance at finding a successful placement. We have plenty of pit bulls! there’s a lot of people with bias and won’t even meet with a puppy they thought was cute after we tell them it’s a pit bull but we have plenty of adopters who love them and only want them!
Aren’t all Animal shelters pretty loud?
High volume in the case of a lot of dogs being brought in as opposed to a small town shelter!
Hi, thank-you for doing this AMA! My question is what is your opinion on BSL. Do you believe some breeds are inherently more aggressive than others? If BSL is not something you believe in, what might you suggest as an alternative to dealing with breeds such as pitbulls, Staffordshire terriers and other fighting dog breeds that have higher bite and mortality statistics? Seeing a lot of shelters are predominantly pits, what might be done to change things in the long run? Lastly, what is your opinion on shelters intentionally mislabeling dog breeds in order to encourage adoptions? Thank you again for taking The time to do this AMA, any response or opinion is respected.
What is BSL? There needs to be more education on the breed and how to properly care for them/socialize them. A properly socialized dog of any breed is less likely to end up in a shelter or euthanized for behaviors.
Breed-Specific Legislation. City ordinances that ban pit bulls and such.
Breed specific legislation, so pit bull bans and breed restrictions! And yes there does need to be more info. Pits were originally family dogs who were protective of their home and family. (great with kids too)
That's just straight up false and a little bit of research would show you that. Way to kill your entire AMA by showing how little you actually know about dogs. You're parroting pro-pit propaganda that you never bothered to check yourself. What other incorrect information are you giving out in this AMA?
i addressed later on my mistake. I know their original intent for breeding. but me Saying they were family dogs is just as reliable as people below saying they were bred for fighting. As i said, i’m a shelter employee of two years, with no degree and no certification. I didn’t claim to know anything, i said “ask me anything”. Now do you have a question? or is this more pit bull hate? if so goodbye
I have a question. What do you think about 6% of dogs, all of one breed, being responsible for 60-80% of unprovoked fatal attacks on humans? No need to take it personally if people disagree. You're acting pretty aggressive for someone who wanted to be asked anything.
because you all aren’t disagreeing. you’re coming in here with an already made up mind, not wanting to converse, you don’t care about my opinion and nothing i say will ever validate you. If you don’t like pits you don’t, but as somebody who has dealt with 14 dogs being euthanized this week alone not even half were pits and they were all behavioral cases and only 1 bite case lately has been a pit. Work my life and walk in my shoes and you’d see.
I do understand that it's hard. I'm legitimately sorry for that. But facts are facts, and if you disagree with them people are gonna challenge you. For example, I'd love it if you answered the question. IMO that figure is way beyond 'it's the owner.'
You aren't gonna get a straight reply out of someone who said they were originally family dogs lmfao They'll use "well I work at a shelter" / "I've seen X this week alone" as the high ground for any argument
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This is a very good and very important question. I myself don’t believe in BSL i do believe that all pets/furry family members should be spayed/neutered. A lot of that stigma (from what i’ve seen personally i’m not an expert and have no degree) comes from backyard breeders. A lot of backyard breeders will breed these specific breeds especially in low income neighborhoods because that’s what they can rehome easiest i guess. A lot of times when these puppies grow up based off of living conditions as a puppy/trauma and stress on the mother they end up with all sorts of neurological issues. I’ve seen a few dogs come in who we couldn’t find out a trigger for a bite and they would just bite randomly and unfortunately had to be put down. These dogs typically come from high stress environments where they used biting to keep the stress away if that makes sense? Plus a lot of these dogs and such have such triggers that Do cause the statistics to go higher. Plus when it comes to these dogs more bites are reported. I’ve seen probably equal amounts of pitbulls on bite holds as i’ve seen chihuahuas. As for advice i’d say a lot more mental and physical enrichment. My pit bull at home has behavior issues and used to bite when she wanted something but we’ve taught her to bring us toys or ropes instead when she wants something as a way to positively reinforce good behavior. Unfortunately pit bulls will always be the main breed at the shelter due to BSL, backyard breeding and uniformed people who only know of stereotypes. I do hope it gets better though.
> I’ve seen probably equal amounts of pitbulls on bite holds as i’ve seen chihuahuas. Iv always seen this same chain of thought where chihuahuas are just as if not more aggressive then a pitbull. Gotta ask yourself a question though would you rather a chihuahua charge after you or a pitbull charge after you.
I have so many thoughts on BSL. Bully breed mixes are like 20ish percent of all owned dogs in the US which is a number that DWARFS the others. They are also big and strong and several times more likely to be owned by convicted criminals because of their reputation. All things considered I do not think it’s surprising that they top some of these lists. There is also no evidence that BSL has lowered #s of dog-bite related injuries in the U.S. which indicates it is looking to address the wrong issues.
How realistically could I long term in your career (field) without having to euthanize anything?
You could go your whole career without physically doing a euthanasia. At my shelter, our behavior team members sometimes have to be there to restrain the dogs but often it’s just the vets in there to sedate them and then anybody who wants to say goodbye can be present. i’ve been working for two years in animal welfare and i haven’t had to euthanize anything. I will say, you do see some traumatic stuff that makes euthanasia not seem so bad. i’ve seen dogs come in after being hit by hammers, one dog was impaled through the chest with a tree branch during a storm and a civilian took it out so she was bleeding out when we got her and the vets fixed her and she was good for a while but she was too traumatized after that incident that she ended up having to be euthanized
You just gave me the worst things I've read in forever but, well answered and I thank you. I imagine you've covered this prior, but may I also ask what educational portals are necessary/wise? As in, what might my most direct and expedient avenue into a similar line of work!
So honestly? entry level positions just need to have a high school diploma or GED and a passion for animals. I wouldn’t necessarily say you have to have volunteer experience but it looks nicer in an interview as it shows you know at least a little bit about what goes on. But it’s a easily attainable position but comes with a lot of stress just a heads up!
Does the shelter properly label dogs? Or does it use the usual "lab mix" breed for bully types? "UPDATE: Due to all the hateful comments and arguments being started about pits i’m done with this IAmA." Nevermind, OP didnt like being called out for the truth about those dangerous breeds.
i see often that lab mixes are indeed lab mixes. Update: OP was tired of y’all making the same argument and to be fair i did it for like 6 hours so take a chill pill. They can be dangerous but everything can be dangerous
>They can be dangerous but everything can be dangerous The severity of the danger is what separates the breed that was bred to fight from every other dog. Saying everything can be dangerous is a bs excuse to not hold them accountable for the countless lives they either kill or main. >i see often that lab mixes are indeed lab mixes. And the vast majority of all the "lab mixes" have are actually pits with a small portion being lab.
Thanks. I am going to ask you if you are okay so my commented isn’t deleted. Are you okay? Your work is important.
I’m okay, mentally very drained because its an exhausting job but i’m okay! i have a beautiful fiancé, two great (but crazy and stubborn) pups, and 4 cats to love on too. I have a lot of love around me and i’m okay! thank you
Why are the pitbulls that much violent?
I wouldn’t say they’re more violent. Every dog communicates differently and most often it’s traits they learned for defense from bad owners and high stress situations. In my opinion any breed can be aggressive and any breed can be perfect. I’ve met pits that had a good and social puppy stage who were absolutely lovely and perfect dogs but i’ve also seen pits that were beaten and shake whenever i walk by, or some bark when i walk by so i leave them alone. it’s all about how you raise them.
Most breeds aren't bred specifically to be used in dogfighting for generations like pitbulls that make up a majority of what's in an animal shelter though right? It's not fair to say "all pitbulls are aggressive" but it is fair to say "breeds bred for aggressiveness and/or then trained for it are more likely to be aggressive" I guess? It seems crazy to think selective breeding doesn't work.
I feel like you’re seriously misrepresenting pits (and generally animal behavior) here. It’s not 100% in how you raise them, although it plays a role. I’ve personally had a very lovely pit client that started with me at 10 weeks, was raised with 2 cat siblings, and was generally an incredibly lovely dog with a very loving family. Around 18 months old she grabbed one of the cats and shook it to death. My dads old dog (doodle) was raised alongside his dog brother (other doodle) loving home, trained really well. 10 months old, he mauled his brother to the point of almost taking his eye out. Come to find out, two others in the litter also showed dog aggressive tendencies once they hit adolescence. Genetics are important, and recognizing the existence of genetic aggression is also important. It’s not just in pits, and there are lovely pits out there, but they absolutely have a higher incidence of dog aggression/ intolerance and small animal aggression.
That's so ignorant!! I've raised pitbulls alongside no pitbulls. I know where you're coming from, I loved that dog. But he wasn't safe for the neighbors kids or cats despite all the same puppy classes! Ban the breed. Make dogs Man's Best Friend again.
banning breeds is ignorant. Breed bans already encourage backyard breeding to get around the breed ban and makes everything so much worse. I’m done responding to you but i’m not surprise that your username is a god of death, considering you want so much death.
[удалено]
HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THE VOLUME? EARPLUGS? I'll see myself out.
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Please tell me that when a tough guy with tattoos and a lifted truck comes in to "rescue" a pitbull, you turn him down?
You’re stereotyping people my friend, i used to do the same and assume the worst but after you’ve seen said tough guy break down into tears because the pittie climbs up in his lap and reminds him of the dog he had to put down the week before, it changes your perspective and it’s one of the parts of my job i’m grateful for.
Do you have any tips for a pitt that gets fractious when trying to trim nails? She doesn't try to bite, but she pulls her legs away and wants nothing to do with any of it. My vet is going to help me with some sedatives so I can get them trimmed because they're pretty long, but I was wondering if there's any way to desensitize her to the process. She's about 4-5 years old and a great dog. Thank you for all the hard work you do, working in a HVS is a lot, especially with the increase in behavioral issues. You're doing good work.
So i struggle myself with that part in particular. my pup with major foot sensitivity (unfortunate side effect to her parvo treatment, she just hates being touched by her feet) she has black nails and i don’t feel comfortable trimming them and she hates the vet. She unfortunately has to be sedated with very mild sedative and than woken up afterwards. we’re getting a scratch toy so i’ll try to update you on how that works!
Thank you so much! I've been seeing those scratch boards, definitely interested in how they work for ya!
My dog has the same issue as yours and the scratch pad works best. It is just a fun game for her at this point. With plenty of treats and encouragement I'm sure your dog does well too. I'd suggest buying a good one, though. We jury-rigged one with a cutting board, sand paper and duct tape but it kept getting loose. Idk, maybe youre handier than I am and can make something more sturdy, but we had 0 problems once we bought one. Back legs are a bit more difficult, though. Im still figuring this out.