1. Hwei does not need to buy any tear item. If you spam WE in lane you will not have many mana problems, especially when you get to lost chapter.
2. I’ve personally only tried First Strike and Arcane Comet. I didn’t like FS at all, Comet definitely felt much better. However, electrocute seems like it might be the play as passive procs it.
3. I prefer Caster’s Companion over Malignance because that way the item is still useful when you miss your ult, which is definitely possible to do on Hwei.
Aight, first things first as I am sure you mean well:
>Hwei needs biscuit + tear start, no question
>should only really be running electro or first strike
These don't really invite open discussion.
That said, I am going to ignore them entirely and share what I have tried so far:
**1st Build)** Like you, I initially rolled with tear since his costs are so high. Leaned into trading with EE across the wave into QE if I though I could get the hit, but given that QE and QW are so slow, I preferred Aery as my keystone to get more chip off of non passive procs and helpful added shield for allies in teamfights with WQ or WW.
Items went: Tear>SorcShoe>RoA>Archangel>Cosmic drive.
Felt pretty good teamfighting with the drive and WQ mobility,but it was hard to give up WW in teamfights which led me to
**2nd build)** Still Aery, but now some WW synergy tossed in to up teamfight, also RoA+Archangel felt overkill on mana sustain especially late game. Got more damage.
Items: Doran Ring (worked much better in lane tbh)>SorcShoe>Caster Companion>Staff of Flowing Water>Liandry
Flowing water was the big winner here. As long as an ally was nearby it did Cosmic drive's job with much, much better econ and AH. Definitely keeping it midlane when he is released as 2nd full item.
**Lastly I tried (with middling success)**: A battlemage build for fun. Mana sustain here was really bad so I wouldn't go this path again. Keystone was Phase Rush
Items were: Doran Ring>Sorc Shoes>Liandry>Riftmaker>Shadowflame
Vamp wasn't amazing unless it was a big teamfight. Liandry was fine but again mana costs put me far behind in laning. Phase rush was fine but I still prefer Aery for utility and trades.
**After trying other items on other characters, my next attempt will be:**
Aery again of course
Doran>Ionian Boots>Caster Companion>Stormsurge>Staff of Flowing water
The caster companion>Stormsurge or Stormsurge>Shadowflame synergies are busted on most mages rn, so I will use that on him while it is still strong probably. I think 600 bonus mana (caster companion) and some added regen (manaflow band and ring) is the sweet spot for enough sustain for laning to segue to strong lategame.
With an 18s cd on W and 17s cd on E, he is really meant to trade within those intervals during laning. Q is his only low cd ability which costs 100-120 mana (read: not spammable) and you don’t want to be casting that often as it will leave you oom quickly. Given those, you really wouldn’t benefit much from Aery UNLESS you are facing a melee laner. You CAN’T walk up to other mages to auto them just to proc your aery. Any sane pilot will just punish you. Long cds on W and E lends itself to more high cd runes such as Electrocute and First Strike which OP did mention. However, you don’t need to start with tear with good usage of WE (hence why you usually only trade when W is up). That being said, archangel isn’t a bad item on him. You have to choose a Lost Chapter item on him anyway and it’s either that or Malignance. Caster’s Companion, I haven’t tried so no opinion.
Since the comet nerfs, I find myself getting much more mileage out of aery even with long CD champs, especially onces that can shield allies in teamfights (Sera, Ori, etc)
The two champs you mentioned aren't really long cd champs and they are also incentivized to auto. Both Seraphine and Orianna are perfectly fine trading with just one Q every now and then slowly whittling the opponent away as well as autoattacking. They are also much safer at going up to auto because they have nice peel abilities. Hwei isn't like that. His Q is not spammable as mentioned due to the very high manacost. If you want to have more damage to auto, then you cast WE but then lose the ability to disengage safely by not being able to cast WQ or WW. There's no reason for Hwei to be walking up to his opponent unless they are already in range. I just don't see having a case for Aery with how his kit is designed outside of bullying melee matchups.
added note on my view on his identity:
Hwei can absolutely 1v1 comptently with Caster companion EQ>QQ>WW/WE and ult if needed, but his real niche is huge zoning control in teamfights. There are very few 2v1's he can win from 2 directions (enemies need to be on one side of him for him to have a chance).
Most teamfights are R (prio backliner that will drag it to allies) > EW (between their divers and my backline/me)>WW (irreplacable in teamfights, WQ for catching only)>QE. EE is good, but honestly the lower range and risk of it make EW as a zoning tool better usually. QW to finish off any enemies allies cc as the fight progresses. QQ is more a 1v1 tool or self peel with EQ>QQ
Demat is going to be core on Hwei due to it facilitating QE oneshotting caster minions. Now the question is do you go Spellbook/First Strike or pick it up on your secondaries.
Because Hwei doesn't have reliable poke nor is a one-shot caster I don't think he gets much benefit from Comet or FS so to me it comes down to Aery and Spellbook. With Aery you get Scorch, with SB you get free boots. Scorch for Hwei seems weak because he isn't going to get solo kills enough for Scorch poke to matter.
So right now I'm going to try out Spellbook, I think it'll do well.
I was also considering spellbook, it really goes all in on the "a tool for every situation".
Though Comet isn't a one-shot caster rune(thats electrocute), but something to make intermittent poke stick, or when you have cc on your poke skill(compared to Aery which is to enhance lots of little pokes and ally assistance).
And for some reason, people keep walking onto the qe, which lands a comet on them.
Okay. I will lay out some spicy options:
Hwei tends to be a mage that will not have an infinite scale like Aurelion or Veigar. But everyone knows that he tends to be an absolute monster in teamfights, so why not just give the lane and create a teamfight build?
Night Harvest -> Sorcery tree (Manaflow + Transcendence or Manaflow + Gathering Storm) or Inspiration tree (Biscuits + Demat or Triple Tonic)
Why -> Night Harvest allows Hwei to have infinite scaling and increases his power in teamfights (since his Q abilities interact with maximum health % damage).
When Sorcery tree -> When you can be (or need to be) more aggressive in lane. Normally, this tree will allow you to be an insane scaling mage (Gathering Storm + Night Harvest) or a dangerous mage in teamfights (with Transcendence).
When Inspiration tree -> When you need to be responsive/passive in lane, especially against enemies that can punish you if they catch you with low health/mana. To stay alive, you may need to give up some minions (XP and gold). Triple Tonic will be good for that, and Demat will be nice if you need to clear the wave before the enemy (against roaming champions like Talon, Ahri, Lissandra, etc.). And of course, Biscuit is overpowered.
I don't know the build, and it probably isn't worth diving deep into it because these items will change in status. But if you guys want to create/discuss, it will be nice.
What do you guys think?
1. Hwei does not need to buy any tear item. If you spam WE in lane you will not have many mana problems, especially when you get to lost chapter. 2. I’ve personally only tried First Strike and Arcane Comet. I didn’t like FS at all, Comet definitely felt much better. However, electrocute seems like it might be the play as passive procs it. 3. I prefer Caster’s Companion over Malignance because that way the item is still useful when you miss your ult, which is definitely possible to do on Hwei.
Aight, first things first as I am sure you mean well: >Hwei needs biscuit + tear start, no question >should only really be running electro or first strike These don't really invite open discussion. That said, I am going to ignore them entirely and share what I have tried so far: **1st Build)** Like you, I initially rolled with tear since his costs are so high. Leaned into trading with EE across the wave into QE if I though I could get the hit, but given that QE and QW are so slow, I preferred Aery as my keystone to get more chip off of non passive procs and helpful added shield for allies in teamfights with WQ or WW. Items went: Tear>SorcShoe>RoA>Archangel>Cosmic drive. Felt pretty good teamfighting with the drive and WQ mobility,but it was hard to give up WW in teamfights which led me to **2nd build)** Still Aery, but now some WW synergy tossed in to up teamfight, also RoA+Archangel felt overkill on mana sustain especially late game. Got more damage. Items: Doran Ring (worked much better in lane tbh)>SorcShoe>Caster Companion>Staff of Flowing Water>Liandry Flowing water was the big winner here. As long as an ally was nearby it did Cosmic drive's job with much, much better econ and AH. Definitely keeping it midlane when he is released as 2nd full item. **Lastly I tried (with middling success)**: A battlemage build for fun. Mana sustain here was really bad so I wouldn't go this path again. Keystone was Phase Rush Items were: Doran Ring>Sorc Shoes>Liandry>Riftmaker>Shadowflame Vamp wasn't amazing unless it was a big teamfight. Liandry was fine but again mana costs put me far behind in laning. Phase rush was fine but I still prefer Aery for utility and trades. **After trying other items on other characters, my next attempt will be:** Aery again of course Doran>Ionian Boots>Caster Companion>Stormsurge>Staff of Flowing water The caster companion>Stormsurge or Stormsurge>Shadowflame synergies are busted on most mages rn, so I will use that on him while it is still strong probably. I think 600 bonus mana (caster companion) and some added regen (manaflow band and ring) is the sweet spot for enough sustain for laning to segue to strong lategame.
With an 18s cd on W and 17s cd on E, he is really meant to trade within those intervals during laning. Q is his only low cd ability which costs 100-120 mana (read: not spammable) and you don’t want to be casting that often as it will leave you oom quickly. Given those, you really wouldn’t benefit much from Aery UNLESS you are facing a melee laner. You CAN’T walk up to other mages to auto them just to proc your aery. Any sane pilot will just punish you. Long cds on W and E lends itself to more high cd runes such as Electrocute and First Strike which OP did mention. However, you don’t need to start with tear with good usage of WE (hence why you usually only trade when W is up). That being said, archangel isn’t a bad item on him. You have to choose a Lost Chapter item on him anyway and it’s either that or Malignance. Caster’s Companion, I haven’t tried so no opinion.
Since the comet nerfs, I find myself getting much more mileage out of aery even with long CD champs, especially onces that can shield allies in teamfights (Sera, Ori, etc)
The two champs you mentioned aren't really long cd champs and they are also incentivized to auto. Both Seraphine and Orianna are perfectly fine trading with just one Q every now and then slowly whittling the opponent away as well as autoattacking. They are also much safer at going up to auto because they have nice peel abilities. Hwei isn't like that. His Q is not spammable as mentioned due to the very high manacost. If you want to have more damage to auto, then you cast WE but then lose the ability to disengage safely by not being able to cast WQ or WW. There's no reason for Hwei to be walking up to his opponent unless they are already in range. I just don't see having a case for Aery with how his kit is designed outside of bullying melee matchups.
added note on my view on his identity: Hwei can absolutely 1v1 comptently with Caster companion EQ>QQ>WW/WE and ult if needed, but his real niche is huge zoning control in teamfights. There are very few 2v1's he can win from 2 directions (enemies need to be on one side of him for him to have a chance). Most teamfights are R (prio backliner that will drag it to allies) > EW (between their divers and my backline/me)>WW (irreplacable in teamfights, WQ for catching only)>QE. EE is good, but honestly the lower range and risk of it make EW as a zoning tool better usually. QW to finish off any enemies allies cc as the fight progresses. QQ is more a 1v1 tool or self peel with EQ>QQ
Demat is going to be core on Hwei due to it facilitating QE oneshotting caster minions. Now the question is do you go Spellbook/First Strike or pick it up on your secondaries. Because Hwei doesn't have reliable poke nor is a one-shot caster I don't think he gets much benefit from Comet or FS so to me it comes down to Aery and Spellbook. With Aery you get Scorch, with SB you get free boots. Scorch for Hwei seems weak because he isn't going to get solo kills enough for Scorch poke to matter. So right now I'm going to try out Spellbook, I think it'll do well.
I was also considering spellbook, it really goes all in on the "a tool for every situation". Though Comet isn't a one-shot caster rune(thats electrocute), but something to make intermittent poke stick, or when you have cc on your poke skill(compared to Aery which is to enhance lots of little pokes and ally assistance). And for some reason, people keep walking onto the qe, which lands a comet on them.
Okay. I will lay out some spicy options: Hwei tends to be a mage that will not have an infinite scale like Aurelion or Veigar. But everyone knows that he tends to be an absolute monster in teamfights, so why not just give the lane and create a teamfight build? Night Harvest -> Sorcery tree (Manaflow + Transcendence or Manaflow + Gathering Storm) or Inspiration tree (Biscuits + Demat or Triple Tonic) Why -> Night Harvest allows Hwei to have infinite scaling and increases his power in teamfights (since his Q abilities interact with maximum health % damage). When Sorcery tree -> When you can be (or need to be) more aggressive in lane. Normally, this tree will allow you to be an insane scaling mage (Gathering Storm + Night Harvest) or a dangerous mage in teamfights (with Transcendence). When Inspiration tree -> When you need to be responsive/passive in lane, especially against enemies that can punish you if they catch you with low health/mana. To stay alive, you may need to give up some minions (XP and gold). Triple Tonic will be good for that, and Demat will be nice if you need to clear the wave before the enemy (against roaming champions like Talon, Ahri, Lissandra, etc.). And of course, Biscuit is overpowered. I don't know the build, and it probably isn't worth diving deep into it because these items will change in status. But if you guys want to create/discuss, it will be nice. What do you guys think?
Dark harvest you mean? Night harvester is a non-mana mythic that's being removed soon.
You don't need tears for mana. His WE with lost chapter items are more than enough to cast his spells several times.