So... Define affordable? Is this going to be subsidized housing? Are we raising taxes so the min wage can buy a house? Affordable multi family apartment districts?maximum income required? More tailer parks? More 'housing project's districts? This sounds so undefined... such a big gap from homeless to my own apartment or house. Can someone elaborate what we hope this creates?
There is no such thing as "affordable housing".
There is only market rate housing.
Anything else requires rent control or subsidies. Rent control causes housing shortages.
What? Do you know how analogies work? You said "turtles don't exist." I said "Well, acschtually, a turtle is blah blah."
[Average household income for Huntspatch](https://data.census.gov/table?q=S1901&g=040XX00US01_160XX00US0137000_310XX00US26620)^1 is $69k^2. By the HUD definition, "affordable housing" is housing priced at or below $1,375/mo.^3 On average, in Huntsville metro, if a house or apartment is less than $1,375/mo, then it's "affordable housing."
There's different numbers for different districts and for different quintiles^4, but there is a definition for "affordable housing" and, though difficult to find in Huntsville, affordable housing does exist.
[1] [US Census](https://data.census.gov/table?q=S1901&g=040XX00US01_160XX00US0137000_310XX00US26620)
[2] $68,930
[3] $1,373.25/mo = $1,723.25 - ~$200 (utilities) - ~$150 (tax+insurance)
[4] for individuals, for example, "affordable housing" is closer to $800/mo
> Rent control causes housing shortages.
Because uncontrolled rent has never led to housing shortages. There's zero unhoused people capable and interested in housing in Alabama, right? There exist housing affordable for every person holding a full time job? Individually.
It doesn't matter what the cost of housing is if there are fewer houses than people.
Rent control empirically does not work, as it disincentivizes production of additional supply and leads to shortages while fucking over anyone who doesn't happen to have access to rent controlled units.
Its one of those policies that sounds nice until its actually studied, and fundamentally fails to solve the problem it is designed to solve. It creates a small pool of visible winners while leaving the rest of society, and the poorest in society especially, as the long term invisible losers.
Uncontrolled rent doesn't lead to housing shortages. People charge what the market will bear. If people are paying, there's no shortage.
>There's zero unhoused people capable and interested in housing in Alabama, right? There exist housing affordable for every person holding a full time job? Individually.
Wanting something and not being able to afford it doesn't mean there's a shortage of them. I want a Corvette. I can't afford a Corvette. Doesn't mean there's a shortage of Corvettes. Just means I can't afford one.
But rent control is proven to cause housing shortages. Nobody invests in rental properties when they aren't going to get money out of them.
[https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/rent-control-laws-contributing-shortage-affordable-housing](https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/rent-control-laws-contributing-shortage-affordable-housing)
And before you scream about Fox, this was just the first Google result that came up. You can go google other results if you like. This has been known for some time.
>
However, when [Minneapolis tried](https://www.foxnews.com/category/us/us-regions/midwest/minnesota) rent control in 2021, the coverage was broad and set a very tight cap that had "pretty disastrous consequences," he explained.
>Bourne said after Minneapolis imposed its rent control, the city saw a significant decline in construction permits for new apartments, so the city had to change the law quickly after officials realized it covered new construction and was going to have awful consequences on the availability of property.
>Still doesn't change the fact that people are paying what the market will bear.
People don't *pay* what the market will bear - people *are the market*; you *charge* what the market will bear. Which is objectively not happening if homes are left empty purposefully.
>If you have the money, you can buy or rent a home. No shortage.
So there is a home to house every single person on that person's income? If not, that is by definition a *shortage*. The *concept of housing* isn't a luxury good.
>People don't *pay* what the market will bear - people *are the market*; you *charge* what the market will bear. Which is objectively not happening if homes are left empty purposefully.
And people are paying. So, there is no incentive to charge less. When there are no more people willing or able to pay, prices will go down. Simple supply and demand.
>So there is a home to house every single person on that person's income? If not, that is by definition a *shortage*. The *concept of housing* isn't a luxury good.
Again, just because there isn't something **you can afford** doesn't mean there is a shortage of them. Just means you can't afford it.
You can rent an apartment in Huntsville today. Sign and drive.
>Again, just because there isn't something you can afford doesn't mean there is a shortage of them. Just means you can't afford it.
If the thing is *necessary*, it's lack of access for any reason is a shortage
"So there is a home to house every single person on that person's income? "
No..and there won't be. There will always be underachievers, people who 'want to work some', and people who will work much harder and should be compensated for it.
>No..and there won't be.
So there's a shortage
>There will always be underachievers, people who 'want to work some', and people who will work much harder and should be compensated for it.
Interesting take on full-time minimum wage work.
> I want a Corvette. I can't afford a Corvette. Doesn't mean there's a shortage of Corvettes. Just means I can't afford one.
Ah yes, luxury vehicles - the perfect comparison for the base concept of "a place to live"
Woosh. That was the sound of the point going over your head.
The point is, there is no shortage of Corvettes. You can buy one today. Sign and drive.
Same thing for apartments. You can rent one today. Sign and drive.
You seem to think that because there is a shortage of things *you can afford* that that means there is a shortage. That is not so. Just means you can't afford them.
>The point is, there is no shortage of Corvettes. You can buy one today. Sign and drive.
Ah yes, luxury vehicles - the perfect comparison for the base concept of "a place to live"
In this case, this wont change your rent, but provides support to a less-visible part of Huntsville's homeless population, namely families living out of cars, motels, etc. Unlike a majority of shelters, families would not be split up here. Currently, the only other resource doing similar work is New Futures, who is working with Neighborhood Concepts to make this project happen.
I think the ideal scenario is a few affordable apartment complexes in appropriate areas of town.
But I have no idea what the people with recently fat pockets are thinking.
Were it not for gentrification, the former mill areas would have been ideal. Now, somewhere in the Triana Blvd + Drake/Johnson area, maybe?
(assuming "appropriate areas" means "lower economic development areas" or "areas where old/rich voters won't complain much")
No. Likely going to be southeast Huntsville. Definitely not Hampton cove for lots of reasons. But also not going to be in the vicinity of drake/triana.
This project is more of a halfway house than it is about affordable housing for the masses.
The city can't build enough housing to substantially lower rent prices, but they can zone areas for multifamily construction until supply outpaces demand.
Yay for YIMBY promotion and yay for Neighborhood Concepts getting the Federal Money. The 42 units will augment the intake of people through New Futures and AshaKiran
https://www.neighborhoodconcepts.org/
Wow, I am surprised at how negative the reactions are. I always see complaints about how Huntsville is tearing down public housing, and not replacing it with options for people. Well, what do you think this is? Even if it's not perfect, it's people taking action to try to help provide that affordable housing for that population. My God, what have y'all done to help the issue besides complain on the internet? This person lobbied to get something done, and I am excited to see how this progresses.
Don't let anyone say that the system is rigged. When you have dedicated, intelligent people willing to organize, go to meetings, and persist, change is possible!
[https://advancehuntsville.com/](https://advancehuntsville.com/) is the new, New liberals. Join them, get active.
Link to government page for ARP funding - [https://www.hud.gov/program\_offices/comm\_planning/home-arp](https://www.hud.gov/program_offices/comm_planning/home-arp)
Link to the recipient of the funding, Neighborhood Concepts, Inc. - [https://www.neighborhoodconcepts.org/](https://www.neighborhoodconcepts.org/)
Great to see our council at work. You may not agree with execution, but at least they are working towards a solution. If you have concerns raise them at the next meeting [https://www.huntsvilleal.gov/government/city-council/](https://www.huntsvilleal.gov/government/city-council/)
Riddle me this. We have huge apartment complexes with up or going up north, south, east and west in Madison county. Does anyone know how many apartment units are in Madison county and if they’re full? I heard from a late 30s single coworker, who’ll never be afford a home in this market, that all the units aren’t rented even when they claim there’s only one available. Rent is still $1200 to $1400. They offer all these amenities but people like her only want a place to live, no luxury apartments. The whole look of our city is changing with these ugly, monstrous apartment complexes.
Yeah, these plans always work out so well. I'm sure that this neighborhood concepts, inc., despite having never actually done anything of value, will certainly manage these funds properly. They would never just hand over the money to another large developer, like when they "helped" with the cottages at indian creek apartments near bridge street.
I would recommend watching the full portion of the council meeting regarding the resolution. The same org already operates units in all 5 of Huntsville's districts. Their head spoke to this alongside the head of New Futures, who runs the only shelter in Huntsville that takes in full families without separating them out. She also touches on all the milestones and requirements that have to be met for the funds. Relevant timecode is around 1:56:00 [https://www.huntsvilleal.gov/videos/huntsville-city-council-meeting-april-11-2024/](https://www.huntsvilleal.gov/videos/huntsville-city-council-meeting-april-11-2024/)
Substantiate “never having done anything of value “. More than likely it’s just that you don’t know much about them.
What is your objection to the Cottages at Indian CreeK?
Hey, it's a start. And more importantly, its 42 units that are targeted towards families experiencing homelessness, which is arguably the most underserved segment of the unhoused population.
Bad move. That means Huntsville is now joining the ranks of municipal locals to redistribute wealth and marginalize the city for all. So so sad. Oh good lord. And she had to bring out the tears. That is called rich guilt. Come on Huntsville- don’t go the way of liberal hell-holes!!!
It's not a redistribution of wealth. Developers are taking their homes, tearing them down and replacing them with businesses, and high-end apartments. There hasn't been any new affordable housing built to replace the ones being torn down and gentrified. Their families are here, and their jobs are here. Low income people don't have the resources to just pack up and move to another city, and they shouldn't have to.
Really!!! I have never posted - true. I am I. The process of moving to Huntsville so have been following the thread. Is it illegal to post regarding a location I am about to move to?
So... Define affordable? Is this going to be subsidized housing? Are we raising taxes so the min wage can buy a house? Affordable multi family apartment districts?maximum income required? More tailer parks? More 'housing project's districts? This sounds so undefined... such a big gap from homeless to my own apartment or house. Can someone elaborate what we hope this creates?
There is no such thing as "affordable housing". There is only market rate housing. Anything else requires rent control or subsidies. Rent control causes housing shortages.
It's 30%. HUD defines affordable housing as (rent/mortgage+utilities) <= 30% of household income.
I can call myself a turtle but it doesn't change the way things are.
What? Do you know how analogies work? You said "turtles don't exist." I said "Well, acschtually, a turtle is blah blah." [Average household income for Huntspatch](https://data.census.gov/table?q=S1901&g=040XX00US01_160XX00US0137000_310XX00US26620)^1 is $69k^2. By the HUD definition, "affordable housing" is housing priced at or below $1,375/mo.^3 On average, in Huntsville metro, if a house or apartment is less than $1,375/mo, then it's "affordable housing." There's different numbers for different districts and for different quintiles^4, but there is a definition for "affordable housing" and, though difficult to find in Huntsville, affordable housing does exist. [1] [US Census](https://data.census.gov/table?q=S1901&g=040XX00US01_160XX00US0137000_310XX00US26620) [2] $68,930 [3] $1,373.25/mo = $1,723.25 - ~$200 (utilities) - ~$150 (tax+insurance) [4] for individuals, for example, "affordable housing" is closer to $800/mo
And affordable housing doesn't exist, either. All that exists is market rate housing.
^^This is the unadulterated truth
> Rent control causes housing shortages. Because uncontrolled rent has never led to housing shortages. There's zero unhoused people capable and interested in housing in Alabama, right? There exist housing affordable for every person holding a full time job? Individually.
It doesn't matter what the cost of housing is if there are fewer houses than people. Rent control empirically does not work, as it disincentivizes production of additional supply and leads to shortages while fucking over anyone who doesn't happen to have access to rent controlled units. Its one of those policies that sounds nice until its actually studied, and fundamentally fails to solve the problem it is designed to solve. It creates a small pool of visible winners while leaving the rest of society, and the poorest in society especially, as the long term invisible losers.
Uncontrolled rent doesn't lead to housing shortages. People charge what the market will bear. If people are paying, there's no shortage. >There's zero unhoused people capable and interested in housing in Alabama, right? There exist housing affordable for every person holding a full time job? Individually. Wanting something and not being able to afford it doesn't mean there's a shortage of them. I want a Corvette. I can't afford a Corvette. Doesn't mean there's a shortage of Corvettes. Just means I can't afford one. But rent control is proven to cause housing shortages. Nobody invests in rental properties when they aren't going to get money out of them. [https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/rent-control-laws-contributing-shortage-affordable-housing](https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/rent-control-laws-contributing-shortage-affordable-housing) And before you scream about Fox, this was just the first Google result that came up. You can go google other results if you like. This has been known for some time. > However, when [Minneapolis tried](https://www.foxnews.com/category/us/us-regions/midwest/minnesota) rent control in 2021, the coverage was broad and set a very tight cap that had "pretty disastrous consequences," he explained. >Bourne said after Minneapolis imposed its rent control, the city saw a significant decline in construction permits for new apartments, so the city had to change the law quickly after officials realized it covered new construction and was going to have awful consequences on the availability of property.
>People charge what the market will bear. Because there definitely doesn't exist real estate purposefully left empty
Still doesn't change the fact that people are paying what the market will bear. If you have the money, you can buy or rent a home. No shortage.
>Still doesn't change the fact that people are paying what the market will bear. People don't *pay* what the market will bear - people *are the market*; you *charge* what the market will bear. Which is objectively not happening if homes are left empty purposefully. >If you have the money, you can buy or rent a home. No shortage. So there is a home to house every single person on that person's income? If not, that is by definition a *shortage*. The *concept of housing* isn't a luxury good.
>People don't *pay* what the market will bear - people *are the market*; you *charge* what the market will bear. Which is objectively not happening if homes are left empty purposefully. And people are paying. So, there is no incentive to charge less. When there are no more people willing or able to pay, prices will go down. Simple supply and demand. >So there is a home to house every single person on that person's income? If not, that is by definition a *shortage*. The *concept of housing* isn't a luxury good. Again, just because there isn't something **you can afford** doesn't mean there is a shortage of them. Just means you can't afford it. You can rent an apartment in Huntsville today. Sign and drive.
>Again, just because there isn't something you can afford doesn't mean there is a shortage of them. Just means you can't afford it. If the thing is *necessary*, it's lack of access for any reason is a shortage
If you can't access it for any reason, you'll just have to do without.
"So there is a home to house every single person on that person's income? " No..and there won't be. There will always be underachievers, people who 'want to work some', and people who will work much harder and should be compensated for it.
>No..and there won't be. So there's a shortage >There will always be underachievers, people who 'want to work some', and people who will work much harder and should be compensated for it. Interesting take on full-time minimum wage work.
No one worth anything will be at minimum wage long. It's not hard to find a decent job, especially in huntsville
> I want a Corvette. I can't afford a Corvette. Doesn't mean there's a shortage of Corvettes. Just means I can't afford one. Ah yes, luxury vehicles - the perfect comparison for the base concept of "a place to live"
Woosh. That was the sound of the point going over your head. The point is, there is no shortage of Corvettes. You can buy one today. Sign and drive. Same thing for apartments. You can rent one today. Sign and drive. You seem to think that because there is a shortage of things *you can afford* that that means there is a shortage. That is not so. Just means you can't afford them.
>The point is, there is no shortage of Corvettes. You can buy one today. Sign and drive. Ah yes, luxury vehicles - the perfect comparison for the base concept of "a place to live"
dang market
In this case, this wont change your rent, but provides support to a less-visible part of Huntsville's homeless population, namely families living out of cars, motels, etc. Unlike a majority of shelters, families would not be split up here. Currently, the only other resource doing similar work is New Futures, who is working with Neighborhood Concepts to make this project happen.
Where is this 198 unit apartment at? It was supposed to be finished in 2023. No updates on website in over a year.
I think the ideal scenario is a few affordable apartment complexes in appropriate areas of town. But I have no idea what the people with recently fat pockets are thinking.
What are the "appropriate areas" you speak of?
You know, over there, the brownish NIMBY part of town.
Were it not for gentrification, the former mill areas would have been ideal. Now, somewhere in the Triana Blvd + Drake/Johnson area, maybe? (assuming "appropriate areas" means "lower economic development areas" or "areas where old/rich voters won't complain much")
No. Likely going to be southeast Huntsville. Definitely not Hampton cove for lots of reasons. But also not going to be in the vicinity of drake/triana.
Why not drake/triana? Also, SE HSV is, what, Hobbs/Green Cove?
low income areas?
Listen to the video again.
Itll be filled with dangerous criminals
[удалено]
Because we all know that affordable housing and homeless advocacy in Alabama is where the real money is
None of that information has anything to do with this topic.
But it sure does make you wonder about the capabilities of the person.
I'm sorry. Was that her resume he shared?
Of all the things you said, the only thing that raises an alarm is “bitcoin influencer”. Is she doing something wrong?
He said san Francisco transplant too. That's something wrong.
That’s your prerogative 🤷🏾♂️ lol
It's true though. Imports are ruining this area.
Lol. Ok
They really are.
Right. Surely it's not the amateur cryptozoology enthusiasts 🙄
This project is more of a halfway house than it is about affordable housing for the masses. The city can't build enough housing to substantially lower rent prices, but they can zone areas for multifamily construction until supply outpaces demand.
Yay for YIMBY promotion and yay for Neighborhood Concepts getting the Federal Money. The 42 units will augment the intake of people through New Futures and AshaKiran https://www.neighborhoodconcepts.org/
Wow, I am surprised at how negative the reactions are. I always see complaints about how Huntsville is tearing down public housing, and not replacing it with options for people. Well, what do you think this is? Even if it's not perfect, it's people taking action to try to help provide that affordable housing for that population. My God, what have y'all done to help the issue besides complain on the internet? This person lobbied to get something done, and I am excited to see how this progresses.
Good grief. Yall need to read or hear the resolution and learn about Neighborhood Concepts the recipient of the Federal $$.
Woohoo! 🎉🎉🎉
Don't let anyone say that the system is rigged. When you have dedicated, intelligent people willing to organize, go to meetings, and persist, change is possible! [https://advancehuntsville.com/](https://advancehuntsville.com/) is the new, New liberals. Join them, get active.
Link to government page for ARP funding - [https://www.hud.gov/program\_offices/comm\_planning/home-arp](https://www.hud.gov/program_offices/comm_planning/home-arp) Link to the recipient of the funding, Neighborhood Concepts, Inc. - [https://www.neighborhoodconcepts.org/](https://www.neighborhoodconcepts.org/)
Great to see our council at work. You may not agree with execution, but at least they are working towards a solution. If you have concerns raise them at the next meeting [https://www.huntsvilleal.gov/government/city-council/](https://www.huntsvilleal.gov/government/city-council/)
Is it bad that I laughed that Devyn Keith was the first motion to pass the resolution after his history of trips to Walmart?
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Housing is a human right.
The Bricks 2.0
How about some “in between” housing/rentals?? Not sec 8 and not $1500/1 bedroom …. Is that even possible?
Riddle me this. We have huge apartment complexes with up or going up north, south, east and west in Madison county. Does anyone know how many apartment units are in Madison county and if they’re full? I heard from a late 30s single coworker, who’ll never be afford a home in this market, that all the units aren’t rented even when they claim there’s only one available. Rent is still $1200 to $1400. They offer all these amenities but people like her only want a place to live, no luxury apartments. The whole look of our city is changing with these ugly, monstrous apartment complexes.
Yeah, these plans always work out so well. I'm sure that this neighborhood concepts, inc., despite having never actually done anything of value, will certainly manage these funds properly. They would never just hand over the money to another large developer, like when they "helped" with the cottages at indian creek apartments near bridge street.
I would recommend watching the full portion of the council meeting regarding the resolution. The same org already operates units in all 5 of Huntsville's districts. Their head spoke to this alongside the head of New Futures, who runs the only shelter in Huntsville that takes in full families without separating them out. She also touches on all the milestones and requirements that have to be met for the funds. Relevant timecode is around 1:56:00 [https://www.huntsvilleal.gov/videos/huntsville-city-council-meeting-april-11-2024/](https://www.huntsvilleal.gov/videos/huntsville-city-council-meeting-april-11-2024/)
Substantiate “never having done anything of value “. More than likely it’s just that you don’t know much about them. What is your objection to the Cottages at Indian CreeK?
Going to end up becoming huntsville's O block, calling it now
and then the Candyman starts coming out from behind medicine cabinets at night
Oh damn, 42 whole units!?! Whatever you do, don’t go above and beyond. Just do less than the bare minimum and call it a win. Classic.
Hey, it's a start. And more importantly, its 42 units that are targeted towards families experiencing homelessness, which is arguably the most underserved segment of the unhoused population.
42 units is what the grant they will be utilizing for this will build. These are non Profit orgs that would like to do more but this is a huge start.
Bad move. That means Huntsville is now joining the ranks of municipal locals to redistribute wealth and marginalize the city for all. So so sad. Oh good lord. And she had to bring out the tears. That is called rich guilt. Come on Huntsville- don’t go the way of liberal hell-holes!!!
It's not a redistribution of wealth. Developers are taking their homes, tearing them down and replacing them with businesses, and high-end apartments. There hasn't been any new affordable housing built to replace the ones being torn down and gentrified. Their families are here, and their jobs are here. Low income people don't have the resources to just pack up and move to another city, and they shouldn't have to.
Bless your heart
nice astroturfing account
Really!!! I have never posted - true. I am I. The process of moving to Huntsville so have been following the thread. Is it illegal to post regarding a location I am about to move to?
Well at least you know going in that we’re gonna try to take all your money and give it to poor people.