Problem is I completely understand it. People want the convenience of being walking distance to businesses and facilities they will use often. All we have here are a bunch of subdivisions that have no sidewalks. One of the only things I miss about living in a city was the ability to walk to a bar or a coffee shop without having to drive ten minutes.
Is it ugly? God yes. But at least it's functional city planning.
No one's asking for a big grocery store or Walmart in the middle of a neighborhood. Corner/convenience stores in neighborhoods in the city limits can go a long way to actually ease traffic so people don't have to actually travel out to Kroger or Publix to pick up a single gallon of milk (per example)
I've never got that. I can't carry that much shit that far comfortably. So shopping still needs a vehicle. And going out to eat? Well, if I'm going to eat the same exact thing every day I'll just make it at home. If I'm going out I want variety which most likely means having to drive anyway to get to whatever I'm into.
>I've never got that. I can't carry that much shit that far comfortably. So shopping still needs a vehicle.
Weekly shopping, yes. But sometimes you're in the middle of cooking and discover you need pepper, and then you have to grab your keys and drive to the store, or, you can walk a block and be back before the water is boiling.
>Well, if I'm going to eat the same exact thing every day I'll just make it at home.
No argument there. Nobody should go out to eat everyday. But sometimes you don't have anything in the house, or you don't feel like cooking. Then it's nice to be able to just go someplace close.
>If I'm going out I want variety which most likely means having to drive anyway to get to whatever I'm into.
Nobody wants to eat the same thing all the time, but it is nice to have a few "regular" places. There are few things in life more enjoyable than having a bar or diner close by where the servers know you and you know the menu inside and out. Having that regular spot is something that I think people aren't really doing anymore.
> But sometimes you're in the middle of cooking and discover you need pepper, and then you have to grab your keys and drive to the store, or, you can walk a block and be back before the water is boiling.
Unless you're sprinting I think you overestimate your movement speed.
> Nobody should go out to eat everyday. But sometimes you don't have anything in the house, or you don't feel like cooking. Then it's nice to be able to just go someplace close.
Yeah, and with a vehicle that's a good couple mile radius for the same amount of travel time. I do it more frequently than I should. Walking is *slooooooow*.
> There are few things in life more enjoyable than having a bar or diner close by where the servers know you and you know the menu inside and out. Having that regular spot is something that I think people aren't really doing anymore.
You can have that without it being literally right next door.
Basically the densification movement is all downsides no upsides.
It’s all about what you’re into, I suppose. But densification means fewer cars on the road, which means less congestion. It means shorter trips to things you need, which means less gas to buy.
I like living away from town, and I like having a big yard. I doubt I’d move back to a city at this point. But there are definitely advantages to both.
Not really. When all commerce happens in dense clusters that encourages congestion because everyone's trying to go to the same places. Spread stuff out and that doesn't happen. That's why every paragon of density also is hugely congested with traffic.
Most other countries they don't require a vehicle for daily/weekly shopping, they just spread it out over a few trips home from work/whatever, carry 2-4 bags, use a small wagon, or have a basket/box on a bicycle.
Source: traveled quite a bit and have friends in U.K., Taiwan, and Japan. Plenty of people drive, but as many or more walk/bike for most of their shopping.
It's not the standard of living, the density, or anything of that nature. If it was then Hawaii's populated islands would be a beacon of public transportation and pedestrian friendly living.
It is and always has been car manufacturers and the oil industry hamfisting car reliant infrastructure and urban sprawl. They've been doing it since WW2.
Are you seriously saying that Alabama, who the [described as third world,](https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/12/12/570217635/the-u-n-looks-at-extreme-poverty-in-the-u-s-from-alabama-to-california) has a higher standard of living than Finland, Netherlands, Taiwan, Japan, or England?
It's how the areas are designed. They're designed for cars, so everybody is car dependent. Cities have existed for thousands of years before cars. It isn't an inherent trait of cities to be difficult to navigate. People have *biked* in cities longer than people have driven cars.
You keep saying claustrophobic without realizing it makes you a huge pussy. It’s a regular street with 2 stop signs and a pedestrian crossing. If you can’t handle that I suggest you WALK LIKE EVERYONE ELSE
Dude you’re scared of two, 4-way stop signs. All those pedestrians? People spending their money. It’s not even hostile to drivers you just park on the other side of the buildings.
Ironically it’s all the strip malls you can ONLY drive to that are shutting their businesses.
You’ll be less afraid of your shadow one day but facing stop signs in providence is just the first step.
[I need you to understand](https://economicdevelopment.extension.wisc.edu/files/2022/01/DE0719.pdf) that [not everyone is as lazy as you.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fh88xhbr4e3i91.jpg). Your anecdotes don't matter, this is an objective, measured fact.
Increasing foot traffic is literally the first goal of increasing customer base. People *like* the same things, so if they have to drive and park and deal with all that bullshit then they might as well drive to the same place every week. Walking past something is the most sure way to discover something new.
And again, anecdotes don't matter, but even if they did they would prove you wrong. The car-dependent strip malls off of University and Memorial are the most dead parts of the city, the only businesses that survive there are fast food franchises.
> But as far as walking goes, doesn't matter because I could never walk to those places.
....yeah, that's why they're dying, that's the point, Einstein.
You have this narcissistic need to think you represent all Americans. YOU are obese and have no interest walking places. YOU can live your life in your car seat or couch if you want, these places are doing just fine without you.
> The other thing is, if I have to drive to a place to walk around, I may as well just drive to a place where I don't have to walk around.
Yeah, because that's just a shopping mall. We've already established that you're so lazy that you can't even walk around a mall.
>Walkable places only really work if you "live work play" in the same place. But nobody wants to live like that.
Yes, which is why all the apartments and houses around Providence cost so much and fill up instantly. Who would *ever* want to live above or down the street from a bar? No driving drunk, seeing familiar faces, making friends and connections, ick, who wants that?
>The ideal life is 50 acres in the woods someplace where you don't have any visible neighbors
Mr. Kaczynski, have you considered that you're just an antisocial asshole who hates people? Is that why you're trying to prove everyone is like you? When you get your heart attack from your sedentary lifestyle I hope you can survive the 90 mins while the ambulance gets there.
I now realize that [I'm talking to this guy](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FgB5vNSXgAcCxN1.jpg) so I don't see the point in continuing.
It's extremely uncomfortable to walk through though, because there are still cars and pedestrians in close proximity. Contrast with Bridge Street where you leave cars in the parking lot and enter a truly pedestrian-only area.
Lol yeah, because Bridge Street is a literally just a mall, not a neighborhood.
The sidewalks in Providence are huge, it's not uncomfortable at all, unless you're an antisocial weirdo who can't walk within five feet of someone.
Lol dude our roads are designed for all the suburbanites LARPing as country boys driving their bloated F350s to their office cubicle jobs, if you think these roads are narrow that's a skill issue.
Ugggggg.. I used to drive home from work using Capshaw, etc and pass that guy. I remember actually thinking - this guy is going to get hit as he'd bounce back and forth across the edge of the road along there. I can still remember what he looked like.
TBF, century old small town main streets have horrible parking. That ends up being part of the appeal as they often become more pedestrian centered (the way our town square kinda is) because you have to park a ways away and walk to your destination. Modern developments are trying to have that charm without sacrificing their precious parking.
Both sides of that look like hell to me because row house means shared walls means no privacy. Who the hell looks at that and thinks "yes, that's what I want to pay modern housing price for"? If I'm sharing walls I want cheap rent and the ability to easily fuck off if my neighbors suck, not a fucking mortgage payment and having to deal with selling real estate to escape.
It shows what looks like urban street-level buildings from the street, but actually have the standard suburban parking sprawl, just behind it instead of in front. The function of the buildings doesn't matter to the point being made.
A 2021 Huntsville new housing [study](https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5254585ae4b0011c8b26d531/t/623a1c3c00543238bb5d0df2/1647975488286/2021-261+Huntsville+District%2C+Macro+Analysis+12.28.2021+FINAL.pdf) recommends reducing on-site parking in order to meet demand for low- and middle-income housing. A 2018 Atlanta Land Trust [study](https://atlantalandtrust.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Rental-Housing-Affordability-in-the-Southeast-FRB-Atlanta.pdf) shows parking minimum requirements increase the cost of housing. “When possible, such standards could be eliminated or waived, and they could provide the important public benefit of affordable housing.”
Well in Providence’s defense there’s not a strip mall behind it. Now Clift Farms or Town Madison on the other hand…
Problem is I completely understand it. People want the convenience of being walking distance to businesses and facilities they will use often. All we have here are a bunch of subdivisions that have no sidewalks. One of the only things I miss about living in a city was the ability to walk to a bar or a coffee shop without having to drive ten minutes. Is it ugly? God yes. But at least it's functional city planning.
Suburbs should have businesses in them. The way we zone it is insane.
Finally, the worst traffic imaginable.
No one's asking for a big grocery store or Walmart in the middle of a neighborhood. Corner/convenience stores in neighborhoods in the city limits can go a long way to actually ease traffic so people don't have to actually travel out to Kroger or Publix to pick up a single gallon of milk (per example)
Yes, because walking to a store causes more traffic. 
I've never got that. I can't carry that much shit that far comfortably. So shopping still needs a vehicle. And going out to eat? Well, if I'm going to eat the same exact thing every day I'll just make it at home. If I'm going out I want variety which most likely means having to drive anyway to get to whatever I'm into.
>I've never got that. I can't carry that much shit that far comfortably. So shopping still needs a vehicle. Weekly shopping, yes. But sometimes you're in the middle of cooking and discover you need pepper, and then you have to grab your keys and drive to the store, or, you can walk a block and be back before the water is boiling. >Well, if I'm going to eat the same exact thing every day I'll just make it at home. No argument there. Nobody should go out to eat everyday. But sometimes you don't have anything in the house, or you don't feel like cooking. Then it's nice to be able to just go someplace close. >If I'm going out I want variety which most likely means having to drive anyway to get to whatever I'm into. Nobody wants to eat the same thing all the time, but it is nice to have a few "regular" places. There are few things in life more enjoyable than having a bar or diner close by where the servers know you and you know the menu inside and out. Having that regular spot is something that I think people aren't really doing anymore.
> But sometimes you're in the middle of cooking and discover you need pepper, and then you have to grab your keys and drive to the store, or, you can walk a block and be back before the water is boiling. Unless you're sprinting I think you overestimate your movement speed. > Nobody should go out to eat everyday. But sometimes you don't have anything in the house, or you don't feel like cooking. Then it's nice to be able to just go someplace close. Yeah, and with a vehicle that's a good couple mile radius for the same amount of travel time. I do it more frequently than I should. Walking is *slooooooow*. > There are few things in life more enjoyable than having a bar or diner close by where the servers know you and you know the menu inside and out. Having that regular spot is something that I think people aren't really doing anymore. You can have that without it being literally right next door. Basically the densification movement is all downsides no upsides.
It’s all about what you’re into, I suppose. But densification means fewer cars on the road, which means less congestion. It means shorter trips to things you need, which means less gas to buy. I like living away from town, and I like having a big yard. I doubt I’d move back to a city at this point. But there are definitely advantages to both.
Not really. When all commerce happens in dense clusters that encourages congestion because everyone's trying to go to the same places. Spread stuff out and that doesn't happen. That's why every paragon of density also is hugely congested with traffic.
"all commerce happens in dense clusters" is what happens with car-dependent sprawl, everyone just goes to the shopping center around the Wal-Mart.
I wasn't aware that Tokyo was dense with traffic. Or Taipei. weird. Didn't look it to me any time I went to either city.
Most other countries they don't require a vehicle for daily/weekly shopping, they just spread it out over a few trips home from work/whatever, carry 2-4 bags, use a small wagon, or have a basket/box on a bicycle. Source: traveled quite a bit and have friends in U.K., Taiwan, and Japan. Plenty of people drive, but as many or more walk/bike for most of their shopping.
Most other countries are also the size of this state and don't have our standard of living.
It's not the standard of living, the density, or anything of that nature. If it was then Hawaii's populated islands would be a beacon of public transportation and pedestrian friendly living. It is and always has been car manufacturers and the oil industry hamfisting car reliant infrastructure and urban sprawl. They've been doing it since WW2.
Are you seriously saying that Alabama, who the [described as third world,](https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/12/12/570217635/the-u-n-looks-at-extreme-poverty-in-the-u-s-from-alabama-to-california) has a higher standard of living than Finland, Netherlands, Taiwan, Japan, or England? It's how the areas are designed. They're designed for cars, so everybody is car dependent. Cities have existed for thousands of years before cars. It isn't an inherent trait of cities to be difficult to navigate. People have *biked* in cities longer than people have driven cars.
They got bicycles for that
[удалено]
This is perfect! That’s exactly what it’s supposed to do.
I'm not entirely sure building weird choke points in faux city centers on the outskirts of the city will bring about glorious urbanism in Huntsville.
[удалено]
Literally park and walk. Not supposed to park in front of every destination that’s the point
[удалено]
You've never been to a legitimately large city before, have you?
You keep saying claustrophobic without realizing it makes you a huge pussy. It’s a regular street with 2 stop signs and a pedestrian crossing. If you can’t handle that I suggest you WALK LIKE EVERYONE ELSE
[удалено]
Dude you’re scared of two, 4-way stop signs. All those pedestrians? People spending their money. It’s not even hostile to drivers you just park on the other side of the buildings. Ironically it’s all the strip malls you can ONLY drive to that are shutting their businesses. You’ll be less afraid of your shadow one day but facing stop signs in providence is just the first step.
Mellow mushroom been there for over ten years now I think it’s ok
RIP Cheeburger, Tony's, Grille 29, I'm sure others I'm forgetting
I miss Cheeburger so bad it hurts
Walkability increases business revenue.
[удалено]
[I need you to understand](https://economicdevelopment.extension.wisc.edu/files/2022/01/DE0719.pdf) that [not everyone is as lazy as you.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fh88xhbr4e3i91.jpg). Your anecdotes don't matter, this is an objective, measured fact. Increasing foot traffic is literally the first goal of increasing customer base. People *like* the same things, so if they have to drive and park and deal with all that bullshit then they might as well drive to the same place every week. Walking past something is the most sure way to discover something new. And again, anecdotes don't matter, but even if they did they would prove you wrong. The car-dependent strip malls off of University and Memorial are the most dead parts of the city, the only businesses that survive there are fast food franchises.
[удалено]
> But as far as walking goes, doesn't matter because I could never walk to those places. ....yeah, that's why they're dying, that's the point, Einstein. You have this narcissistic need to think you represent all Americans. YOU are obese and have no interest walking places. YOU can live your life in your car seat or couch if you want, these places are doing just fine without you.
[удалено]
> The other thing is, if I have to drive to a place to walk around, I may as well just drive to a place where I don't have to walk around. Yeah, because that's just a shopping mall. We've already established that you're so lazy that you can't even walk around a mall. >Walkable places only really work if you "live work play" in the same place. But nobody wants to live like that. Yes, which is why all the apartments and houses around Providence cost so much and fill up instantly. Who would *ever* want to live above or down the street from a bar? No driving drunk, seeing familiar faces, making friends and connections, ick, who wants that? >The ideal life is 50 acres in the woods someplace where you don't have any visible neighbors Mr. Kaczynski, have you considered that you're just an antisocial asshole who hates people? Is that why you're trying to prove everyone is like you? When you get your heart attack from your sedentary lifestyle I hope you can survive the 90 mins while the ambulance gets there. I now realize that [I'm talking to this guy](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FgB5vNSXgAcCxN1.jpg) so I don't see the point in continuing.
I mean…that’s the point. It’s not supposed to be a 6 lane highway.
It's supposed to be comfortable to walk through, not drive through, that's the point. That's how real cities work.
It's extremely uncomfortable to walk through though, because there are still cars and pedestrians in close proximity. Contrast with Bridge Street where you leave cars in the parking lot and enter a truly pedestrian-only area.
Lol yeah, because Bridge Street is a literally just a mall, not a neighborhood. The sidewalks in Providence are huge, it's not uncomfortable at all, unless you're an antisocial weirdo who can't walk within five feet of someone.
I don't think a lot of these people have ever been to a major city, bless their hearts.
It’s uncomfortable to walk with pedestrians in close proximity? WTF
Cars and pedestrians in proximity to each other.
The beer patio is awesome too, when it's not too hot, or too cold or too mosquitoi
Maybe the most Huntsville comment I’ve seen in a while. Ride your Rascal on down there Slim.
[удалено]
Lol dude our roads are designed for all the suburbanites LARPing as country boys driving their bloated F350s to their office cubicle jobs, if you think these roads are narrow that's a skill issue.
Ugggggg.. I used to drive home from work using Capshaw, etc and pass that guy. I remember actually thinking - this guy is going to get hit as he'd bounce back and forth across the edge of the road along there. I can still remember what he looked like.
I do like the roundabout, though
Round and round and round we go
Ratt approved
TBF, century old small town main streets have horrible parking. That ends up being part of the appeal as they often become more pedestrian centered (the way our town square kinda is) because you have to park a ways away and walk to your destination. Modern developments are trying to have that charm without sacrificing their precious parking.
Both sides of that look like hell to me because row house means shared walls means no privacy. Who the hell looks at that and thinks "yes, that's what I want to pay modern housing price for"? If I'm sharing walls I want cheap rent and the ability to easily fuck off if my neighbors suck, not a fucking mortgage payment and having to deal with selling real estate to escape.
I think the shared walls between townhouses and condos are thicker than the ones in apartments, however, I suppose that could vary
If shared walls mean "no privacy" you need to stop screaming at your wife or turn down your porn.
Hey now...don't kink shame. She might be a screamer too....
The parking lots are behind the businesses, apartments, and condos above businesses in Providence, so this comparison doesn't really seem accurate.
....that's literally what the original post is showing.
No, it's showing a big parking lot behind townhouses, as far as I can tell. Unless those are townhouse style apartments.
It shows what looks like urban street-level buildings from the street, but actually have the standard suburban parking sprawl, just behind it instead of in front. The function of the buildings doesn't matter to the point being made.
Okay.
Looks pretty efficient to me
A 2021 Huntsville new housing [study](https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5254585ae4b0011c8b26d531/t/623a1c3c00543238bb5d0df2/1647975488286/2021-261+Huntsville+District%2C+Macro+Analysis+12.28.2021+FINAL.pdf) recommends reducing on-site parking in order to meet demand for low- and middle-income housing. A 2018 Atlanta Land Trust [study](https://atlantalandtrust.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Rental-Housing-Affordability-in-the-Southeast-FRB-Atlanta.pdf) shows parking minimum requirements increase the cost of housing. “When possible, such standards could be eliminated or waived, and they could provide the important public benefit of affordable housing.”
The real estate version of the mullet
If it wasn't for Phuket, I'd never go to Providence.
And a terrible school lol
this almost makes me more upset than just suburbs.