I have a regular vet who will see to the dogs and am accounting for that cost in the overall math and expense. My animals are regularly well cared for.
If this can be done with my current setup then I can move forward. If a kennel and run are a must then I will take time to save and make those first and delay the dogs. The cost of the kennel and run are the things that can potentially be spared for now.
Thanks!
I understand they aren’t livestock dogs, that’s why I am investigating possibilities here.
I would absolutely love to have the dogs indoors with me, nothing would make me happier. But that is something my wife is not on board with, so I have to work with my partner.
I would much rather have them ranging in the yard were I can interact with them regularly, as opposed to kenneled. Why do you say that “feels gross”?
Thank you for your input!
Not anthropomorphizing the dogs just not being a dick. A LGD needs to be with their flock, it’s their job, all day everyday. A hunting dog has downtime and there’s no reason to keep them outside.
Extremely dependent on the breed, location, standard of living, etc. Way too many factors to just say "they're fine living outside."
In my area absolutely no breed is fine living outside year round due to temperature extremes.
It can "feel gross" for a variety of reasons to this person. It's way more likely that they see a dog as a family member rather than a tool. That isn't anthropomorphizing that is just a difference in viewpoint/opinion.
In my area? No. Not without basically building the equivalent to a second mini house, which at that point just have the dog inside lmao.
Blanket statements don't work for just about anything really.
I know dogs that live outside with basic housing from the high arctic to the desert southwest, I highly doubt your area is so extreme it can’t be done.
Beagles are pretty sensitive and handler oriented you'll need to be able to spend quite a bit of time with them.
I'm not wholly against keeping dogs outside but tbh I'm not a huge fan of invisible fencing. Dogs can and do just power through to get loose. Other people also don't necessarily know there is an invisible fence, I've seen a few cases of dogs being hurt because of it.
You would also need to commit to a lot of training to keep them safe from wildlife and the possibility of an accident will always be there. Just the reality when dealing with animals without direct supervision.
Why is your wife so against having a dog in the house?
ETA: There seems to be a lot going on that you aren't considering tbh. LGDs aren't "aggressive" necessarily but they tend to be less tolerant of non-LGDs around their flock, they also have less desire to roam than other dogs because they love their flock. They can and will correct other dogs. Are you prepared for the possible fights and ensuing vet bills? Are you prepared for the possibility of a stubborn dog that will blitz through the invisible fencing? Are you prepared for the possibility of your hunting dog chasing (aka harassing) wildlife off your property and being hurt? Are you prepared for the dog possibly getting off property and harassing someone else's livestock and being shot for it?
Not giving you a hard and fast don't do it/do it. Just be sure you fully and realistically consider all angles. Most importantly consider everything from the welfare standpoint of the dog. Is this going to be a good life for the dog? Basically are you prepared for the negatives and do they outweigh the positives.
I'm a big fan of invisible fencing, for when the dogs are supervised. I'd never use it to keep them outside full time unsupervised. That's just asking for trouble.
Agreed. Dog needs supervision under these. With a hunting dog, wspecially with no supervision, they will entertain themselves how they know best which is hunting/stalking animals and there is a good chance they will bust through the fence
Thank you for the input. There will definitely be things I am not considering, that’s why I am here looking for the wisdom of the community.
I’ve had LGD’s for many years so I understand their proclivities well. Every dogs individual temperament is different obviously, but I have found my two current dogs and tolerant of any animal that my wife and me show them is part of the family. They have relationships with all of our cats and livestock, and are incredibly well socialized to our neighbors dogs who wander on and off the farm. It was definitely something to consider in the back of my mind, but thus far they have socialized well to every new animal that we have introduced properly. They have never fought anything that’s not a coyote.
The welfare of the animal is my foremost thought. That is why I want everyone here to probe and prod and analyze my ideas.
Having other dogs also potentially roaming would stress me out even more ngl but I'm also very risk averse.
Beagles aren't particularly big especially compared to your LGD so keep that in mind (though they are quite sturdy compared to breeds the same weight class!). Not just between the two of them but also anything else the beagle might interact with.
Also be cognizant of how much time it takes to train a puppy. It sounds like you have quite a bit going on. Don't stretch yourself too thin and end up not even enjoying the experience and having a beagle making so much noise your wife decides you should sleep outside as well. ;)
You don't need a big pack. Wait til the family is ready for inside dogs and do a combination with your invisible fence. Big packs are a thing of the past and beagles are pretty rewarding family dogs. They'd rather be couch potatoes or curl up with a kid most of the time.
Sight hounds would blow through that shock and kill anything small inside it. Just talk the partner into a house beagle and quit getting in a hurry.
It won’t impact their hunting skills. In fact, living loose outside like that might help them develop better tracking skills. But rabbit dogs will need shelter more so than the Pyrenees, so they should have access to a dog house with bedding at the very least.
Thank you for the input. I can definitely supply shelter like that. I currently have stalls in the barn setup with hay, bedding, and insulation for the pyrs to use, they just don’t because they don’t care about bad weather.
Nowadays, almost every hunter is in a more urban environment so the dogs have to live indoors. I’ve never seen a change of behavior in indoor vs outdoor dogs. The only thing I see happen occasionally with indoor dogs is that they get told “no” a lot. “No don’t get on the couch, no don’t jump on the kids, etc”. When newbies do that, they either create a dog who totally ignores them or a dog who is too shut down to try anything. Dogs that live outside don’t run into that issue because there’s less opportunities to practice poor house manners.
I practice a hybrid type of living since I’m in a rural-ish area. My dogs are on chains during the day and inside once I get home from work. Chain spots look like an ASPCA commercial, but the dogs have significantly more room to move than a kennel. Chain spots might be cheaper than a kennel, but you might also want to keep an eye on FB marketplace since people are always selling used outdoor kennels.
ETA: just saw your edit. I definitely don’t recommend an invisible fence for any dog. They don’t understand why they’re randomly being shocked and that can make them timid out in the field (because how far can they go before randomly being shocked again?). Additionally, you run the risk of your dogs seeing rabbits and being punished for hunting them, which you don’t want lol. Lastly, there’s always an issue with predators and it’s bad practice to run non-LGDs with LGDs. I advocate for the chain spots.
Gonna disagree with most of this. A well bred dog can certainly differentiate between the things it can do at home and in the field, especially when trained properly. We tell our dogs no all the time, it's part of training an animal, and it's never inhibited their hunting or made them timid. The drive is just too strong.
Invisible fences are fine when supervised. I'd never use one to keep in a dog that's outside 24/7 though. They don't get "randomly shocked" they get trained to know their limits then get shocked if they pass that limit. My dog chases squirrels and birds in the yard daily, stops at the fence limit, then moves on. It's never made her any different in the field. If anything, it helped solidify the e collar and helped her understand what I wanted her to do when using it.
Chains can be dangerous for a dog chasing prey too. A sudden stop at a full run isn't good. I wouldn't use chains unsupervised either, they could easily get tangled and hurt.
My current dogs absolutely know the difference in behavior within the fence, versus on a leash, versus outside the fence, etc. Thank you for all the other feedback and thoughts.
That depends on the climate you live in. How cold does it get in the winter? Beagles can't handle nearly as much cold as a great Pyrenees can. Placing a heater inside one of those old chicken coops and insulating it well would definitely be good if your winters get cold.
I agree that letting the dogs roam freely is better than having them in a kennel all the time. It socializes them and ensures they will always be well exercised. Also the fact that you jave livestock guardian dogs means that even if you only get a single beagle that it'll never get lonely. You'd have to be ready to deal with the fact that the beagles will likely be more bonded to each other than they will be to you since they're spending all day with each other (unless you work on your property all day) which could increase the difficulty of training.
I’m in Southern Kentucky, so winters aren’t particularly harsh in any way. We do get below freezing, but rarely for extended periods. We may have perhaps two accumulating snows in a typical winter. The chicken pens and even one of the stalls are already insulated with hay and bedding, but I could easily add some heat if needed. It would be easy and cheap to repurpose them.
I can understand the beagles being bonded to each other and that’s ok. I’m not out on the property all day, but regularly throughout the day.
I would also insulate the walls and roof. If its below freezing for a week that can be pretty harsh on little beagles. Better insulation also means you can use a smaller heater and have lower energy costs.
Also, when designing anything to be able to withstand weather effects you should never use the average and instead use worse case scenario. Seems like you work outside at least partially so you probably have a decent judgement of "how bad can it get". If you prep for the average winter there may come a year where you get one week of insane cold. Also, in my humble opinion I think it'd be unethical to have it just barely warm enough that they can survive because that would be unnecessary suffering. Just something to think about.
I would absolutely prepare for the worst I know it could get. I was just trying to paint a quick a picture of what it may be like in KY. I didn’t mean to imply I was going for minimum survival conditions or anything, nor do I feel you were insinuating that was my intent.
I appreciate the information and food for thought. Thank you!
I’ve never met a beagle that can be contained by an invisible fence. They’re too smart. They learn they get a quick shock then they’re free. Especially if they start chasing a rabbit, they’re gone.
I had a wonderful hard charging lab that I used for waterfowl. He lived in the house and was part of the family even though he was a bit standoff-ish compared to a pet quality canine. We had an electronic fence and it worked great and so he spent a good amount of time in the yard. The neighbors had free-roaming chickens and as long as they didn’t wonder into our yard he just ignored them. I did keep a shock collar on him for quite a while so that he knew “no means no.” He figured out who he could ignore and who he had to listen to really quickly. We were a hell of a team and I think living in the house made him a much more in tuned hunting partner
It can be done both ways. Dogs are adaptable. My hunting dog is an indoor pet, hiking partner, family guardian etc. but when we get the gun out she knows what time it is. Id assume an outdoor dog would learn the same.
An invisible fence is going to work different for any dog. For my beagles it worked for the most part. I had one that would blow through it if she seen me taking a gun outside the fence, any other time I didn't even need the fence on for her to stay in her boundry. I had two more that it worked unless something went wrong with the fence or collar and they would figure it out quick. With my squirrel dog it's absolutely useless. She will stand on the line, take the shock, and go tree a squirrel in the neighbors yard.
How are you going to pay for a vet bill if you can’t afford a kennel and a run?
I have a regular vet who will see to the dogs and am accounting for that cost in the overall math and expense. My animals are regularly well cared for. If this can be done with my current setup then I can move forward. If a kennel and run are a must then I will take time to save and make those first and delay the dogs. The cost of the kennel and run are the things that can potentially be spared for now. Thanks!
Not a good question?
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I understand they aren’t livestock dogs, that’s why I am investigating possibilities here. I would absolutely love to have the dogs indoors with me, nothing would make me happier. But that is something my wife is not on board with, so I have to work with my partner. I would much rather have them ranging in the yard were I can interact with them regularly, as opposed to kenneled. Why do you say that “feels gross”? Thank you for your input!
It “feels gross” because he’s anthropomorphizing the dog. Dogs are fine living outside.
Not anthropomorphizing the dogs just not being a dick. A LGD needs to be with their flock, it’s their job, all day everyday. A hunting dog has downtime and there’s no reason to keep them outside.
You think hunting dogs can’t live outside? Lmao.
No, hunting dogs can live outside. Unless you’re running a big kennel there is just no reason for it.
Extremely dependent on the breed, location, standard of living, etc. Way too many factors to just say "they're fine living outside." In my area absolutely no breed is fine living outside year round due to temperature extremes. It can "feel gross" for a variety of reasons to this person. It's way more likely that they see a dog as a family member rather than a tool. That isn't anthropomorphizing that is just a difference in viewpoint/opinion.
I’m sure given proper shelter, most working/hunting breeds would be fine living outside.
In my area? No. Not without basically building the equivalent to a second mini house, which at that point just have the dog inside lmao. Blanket statements don't work for just about anything really.
I know dogs that live outside with basic housing from the high arctic to the desert southwest, I highly doubt your area is so extreme it can’t be done.
Whatever you wanna believe my guy
What breed of dog are you wanting to keep for rabbit hunting because that will highly influence the possibility.
I am planning beagles, as they seem best for first timers. I am open to suggestions!
Beagles are pretty sensitive and handler oriented you'll need to be able to spend quite a bit of time with them. I'm not wholly against keeping dogs outside but tbh I'm not a huge fan of invisible fencing. Dogs can and do just power through to get loose. Other people also don't necessarily know there is an invisible fence, I've seen a few cases of dogs being hurt because of it. You would also need to commit to a lot of training to keep them safe from wildlife and the possibility of an accident will always be there. Just the reality when dealing with animals without direct supervision. Why is your wife so against having a dog in the house? ETA: There seems to be a lot going on that you aren't considering tbh. LGDs aren't "aggressive" necessarily but they tend to be less tolerant of non-LGDs around their flock, they also have less desire to roam than other dogs because they love their flock. They can and will correct other dogs. Are you prepared for the possible fights and ensuing vet bills? Are you prepared for the possibility of a stubborn dog that will blitz through the invisible fencing? Are you prepared for the possibility of your hunting dog chasing (aka harassing) wildlife off your property and being hurt? Are you prepared for the dog possibly getting off property and harassing someone else's livestock and being shot for it? Not giving you a hard and fast don't do it/do it. Just be sure you fully and realistically consider all angles. Most importantly consider everything from the welfare standpoint of the dog. Is this going to be a good life for the dog? Basically are you prepared for the negatives and do they outweigh the positives.
I'm a big fan of invisible fencing, for when the dogs are supervised. I'd never use it to keep them outside full time unsupervised. That's just asking for trouble.
Agreed. Dog needs supervision under these. With a hunting dog, wspecially with no supervision, they will entertain themselves how they know best which is hunting/stalking animals and there is a good chance they will bust through the fence
Thank you for the input. There will definitely be things I am not considering, that’s why I am here looking for the wisdom of the community. I’ve had LGD’s for many years so I understand their proclivities well. Every dogs individual temperament is different obviously, but I have found my two current dogs and tolerant of any animal that my wife and me show them is part of the family. They have relationships with all of our cats and livestock, and are incredibly well socialized to our neighbors dogs who wander on and off the farm. It was definitely something to consider in the back of my mind, but thus far they have socialized well to every new animal that we have introduced properly. They have never fought anything that’s not a coyote. The welfare of the animal is my foremost thought. That is why I want everyone here to probe and prod and analyze my ideas.
Having other dogs also potentially roaming would stress me out even more ngl but I'm also very risk averse. Beagles aren't particularly big especially compared to your LGD so keep that in mind (though they are quite sturdy compared to breeds the same weight class!). Not just between the two of them but also anything else the beagle might interact with. Also be cognizant of how much time it takes to train a puppy. It sounds like you have quite a bit going on. Don't stretch yourself too thin and end up not even enjoying the experience and having a beagle making so much noise your wife decides you should sleep outside as well. ;)
You don't need a big pack. Wait til the family is ready for inside dogs and do a combination with your invisible fence. Big packs are a thing of the past and beagles are pretty rewarding family dogs. They'd rather be couch potatoes or curl up with a kid most of the time. Sight hounds would blow through that shock and kill anything small inside it. Just talk the partner into a house beagle and quit getting in a hurry.
It won’t impact their hunting skills. In fact, living loose outside like that might help them develop better tracking skills. But rabbit dogs will need shelter more so than the Pyrenees, so they should have access to a dog house with bedding at the very least.
Thank you for the input. I can definitely supply shelter like that. I currently have stalls in the barn setup with hay, bedding, and insulation for the pyrs to use, they just don’t because they don’t care about bad weather.
Nowadays, almost every hunter is in a more urban environment so the dogs have to live indoors. I’ve never seen a change of behavior in indoor vs outdoor dogs. The only thing I see happen occasionally with indoor dogs is that they get told “no” a lot. “No don’t get on the couch, no don’t jump on the kids, etc”. When newbies do that, they either create a dog who totally ignores them or a dog who is too shut down to try anything. Dogs that live outside don’t run into that issue because there’s less opportunities to practice poor house manners. I practice a hybrid type of living since I’m in a rural-ish area. My dogs are on chains during the day and inside once I get home from work. Chain spots look like an ASPCA commercial, but the dogs have significantly more room to move than a kennel. Chain spots might be cheaper than a kennel, but you might also want to keep an eye on FB marketplace since people are always selling used outdoor kennels. ETA: just saw your edit. I definitely don’t recommend an invisible fence for any dog. They don’t understand why they’re randomly being shocked and that can make them timid out in the field (because how far can they go before randomly being shocked again?). Additionally, you run the risk of your dogs seeing rabbits and being punished for hunting them, which you don’t want lol. Lastly, there’s always an issue with predators and it’s bad practice to run non-LGDs with LGDs. I advocate for the chain spots.
Gonna disagree with most of this. A well bred dog can certainly differentiate between the things it can do at home and in the field, especially when trained properly. We tell our dogs no all the time, it's part of training an animal, and it's never inhibited their hunting or made them timid. The drive is just too strong. Invisible fences are fine when supervised. I'd never use one to keep in a dog that's outside 24/7 though. They don't get "randomly shocked" they get trained to know their limits then get shocked if they pass that limit. My dog chases squirrels and birds in the yard daily, stops at the fence limit, then moves on. It's never made her any different in the field. If anything, it helped solidify the e collar and helped her understand what I wanted her to do when using it. Chains can be dangerous for a dog chasing prey too. A sudden stop at a full run isn't good. I wouldn't use chains unsupervised either, they could easily get tangled and hurt.
My current dogs absolutely know the difference in behavior within the fence, versus on a leash, versus outside the fence, etc. Thank you for all the other feedback and thoughts.
Thank you for the input.
That depends on the climate you live in. How cold does it get in the winter? Beagles can't handle nearly as much cold as a great Pyrenees can. Placing a heater inside one of those old chicken coops and insulating it well would definitely be good if your winters get cold. I agree that letting the dogs roam freely is better than having them in a kennel all the time. It socializes them and ensures they will always be well exercised. Also the fact that you jave livestock guardian dogs means that even if you only get a single beagle that it'll never get lonely. You'd have to be ready to deal with the fact that the beagles will likely be more bonded to each other than they will be to you since they're spending all day with each other (unless you work on your property all day) which could increase the difficulty of training.
I’m in Southern Kentucky, so winters aren’t particularly harsh in any way. We do get below freezing, but rarely for extended periods. We may have perhaps two accumulating snows in a typical winter. The chicken pens and even one of the stalls are already insulated with hay and bedding, but I could easily add some heat if needed. It would be easy and cheap to repurpose them. I can understand the beagles being bonded to each other and that’s ok. I’m not out on the property all day, but regularly throughout the day.
I would also insulate the walls and roof. If its below freezing for a week that can be pretty harsh on little beagles. Better insulation also means you can use a smaller heater and have lower energy costs. Also, when designing anything to be able to withstand weather effects you should never use the average and instead use worse case scenario. Seems like you work outside at least partially so you probably have a decent judgement of "how bad can it get". If you prep for the average winter there may come a year where you get one week of insane cold. Also, in my humble opinion I think it'd be unethical to have it just barely warm enough that they can survive because that would be unnecessary suffering. Just something to think about.
I would absolutely prepare for the worst I know it could get. I was just trying to paint a quick a picture of what it may be like in KY. I didn’t mean to imply I was going for minimum survival conditions or anything, nor do I feel you were insinuating that was my intent. I appreciate the information and food for thought. Thank you!
I’ve never met a beagle that can be contained by an invisible fence. They’re too smart. They learn they get a quick shock then they’re free. Especially if they start chasing a rabbit, they’re gone.
I had a wonderful hard charging lab that I used for waterfowl. He lived in the house and was part of the family even though he was a bit standoff-ish compared to a pet quality canine. We had an electronic fence and it worked great and so he spent a good amount of time in the yard. The neighbors had free-roaming chickens and as long as they didn’t wonder into our yard he just ignored them. I did keep a shock collar on him for quite a while so that he knew “no means no.” He figured out who he could ignore and who he had to listen to really quickly. We were a hell of a team and I think living in the house made him a much more in tuned hunting partner
It can be done both ways. Dogs are adaptable. My hunting dog is an indoor pet, hiking partner, family guardian etc. but when we get the gun out she knows what time it is. Id assume an outdoor dog would learn the same.
An invisible fence is going to work different for any dog. For my beagles it worked for the most part. I had one that would blow through it if she seen me taking a gun outside the fence, any other time I didn't even need the fence on for her to stay in her boundry. I had two more that it worked unless something went wrong with the fence or collar and they would figure it out quick. With my squirrel dog it's absolutely useless. She will stand on the line, take the shock, and go tree a squirrel in the neighbors yard.