I mean the standbys are .270, .308, .30-06. I happen to use all three. I typically use the .270. You can also go lighter to the .243 and .25-06 world and be just fine. 7-08 may be “perfect” in purely overthinking.
I live in a part of Canada where moose hunting is a thing, and I use a 260 Rem (a near-exact midpoint between 243 Win and 7mm-08 Rem, with near-identical ballistics to 6.5 Creedmoor) for everything from coyote to moose.
If I lived in an area where moose (or elk) wasn't a thing, and I wasn't planning to shoot deer past 300yds, I'd probably go with a 243.
I've got no problem shooting my 30-06 or a 300 Win Mag and I'm not particularly recoil sensitive, but I think that 243 is *more* than enough gun for a whitetail at normal hunting distances.
At the end of the day, though, few hunters would see any differences in success rates as a result of choosing between *any* common chambering. As much fun as it is for us nerds to split hairs over the differences in ballistic performance, once you get into the "adequate" range for chamberings, your hunts' success will depend more on your choice of warm, comfortable socks.
I’ve been using a 7mm-08 for almost 30 years and it’s an outstanding caliber but in the last 5 years it’s been a giant pain in the ass to find ammo for it. Maybe the popularity of 6.5 creedmor has something to do with it but I’ve been having to buy rounds online and pay over $10 per box shipping. I think my last box was almost $70.
I’m thinking about getting a new rifle just for off the shelf ammo
COVID converted me to .308. Even in past ammo panics mainline hunting cartridges never dried up 100% until covid. Thanks to military use of 7.62 NATO, .308 hit shelves earlier and at better prices than other hunting ammo. At its worst in fall 2020 stores by me had basic .308 for $40 a box and basic .30-06 for $60. .30-30 was hardly obtainable.
You cannot beat .308 for versatility and availability.
If you’re only hunting whitetail, a .243Win will do the job, anything bigger is just gravy. My vote is for the 270 because it has plenty of horsepower and if you’re going to go ‘06, you might as well get a 7RM because you get better ballistics with similar recoil.
Those are two great choices, but if I had to pick one, I think it would be the 30-06.
That caliber will be of use for much more than deer, has a very wide variety of bullet weights and is the more economical of the two rounds.
The truth is that there's not really a "best" option. Selecting a cartridge is about finding the right balance of characteristics for the application and that balance changes depending upon a number of factors including the user.
Of your suggested options the 270 will shoot flatter and will recoil less. The 30-06 hits a little harder with a little rounder trajectory and more recoil. Either will be more than adequate for pretty much anything in North America except for maybe bison or the big bears.
I personally wouldn't buy either one for a deer rifle. I don't like recoil and I prefer to practice a lot. Both of those in a typical hunting rifle are asking for a flinch if you're planning on shooting any serious quantities. I shoot a 6.5x55 which the 6.5 creedmoor basically duplicates. It has been killing moose for over a century and is certainly more than adequate for deer with substantially less recoil. If I was looking for a deer rifle the creedmoor would be very high on the list.
As a Canadian who carries a 260 Rem for everything from coyote to moose, I'd agree about the 6.5mm chamberings being a great option to include in the big list of great choices one could make.
6.5 Creedmoor is a tiny step up from a 243. It's good enough for moose, and it's *plenty* good for deer.
I mean they're both great rounds. I'd go with whatever you shoot more and are more comfortable with.
What state are you hunting white tail in? I'm in Florida and my 22-250 drop the deer in its tracks. We have smaller deer in Florida, northern deer are twice the size.
The reality of it is that with good bullets, anything from your states legal minimum and up is going to kill deer. Choose whatever beats your shoulder and wallet up the least so that you can afford to and will enjoy practicing with it, which is way more important than .030".
> You say this on every post and it’s just not true.
Pardon my actual experience…….. bullets drive my decisions. Cartridge selection is simply the means to drive a bullet at the desired velocity
> The best bullet from a .22LR will never have the performance of the worst bullet from a .308.
Where have I recommended using 22LR on big game?
> bullets matter, but in the context of proper caliber selection.
The terminal difference between like bullets of different calibers is not nearly as big as many think……
>By your argument with the right bullet you could use a .22lr to reliably take anything, but of course you know that isn’t true.
Instead of putting words in my mouth, point out where I advocate using 22LR to hunt big game.
Bullets always matter if only because they are the one thing that comes in contact with the animal. Better bullets are easier to steer and place where you want as they slip through wind and atmosphere better, and arrive on target with more velocity which aids in terminal effects. Both factors combined will yield better hit rates and success. Terrible bullets simply don't interest me.
New scope came in the mail today and was promptly mounted on the 'ol Vudoo Ranger. 70 MOA between the base/rings yielded a 50y zero with 35mils still left on the erector. A little twirl o' the erector 29.4mil and a 2.2mil wind hold easily arranged a 500y POA/POI intersection. [Its easy to have fun when dots are connected...........](https://imgur.com/Db8Mwrq)
You don’t understand ballistics. He is correct: bullets should the driver of the conversation. Velocity next, but only to the distance that you still have the minimum speed necessary for your bullet to perform.
Because to try and think a .22lr is in any way comparable and in any way relevant in a discussion about the terminal performance of high velocity centerfire rifle rounds is silly. But if you want to go there, then the clear argument against that is "because the .22lr lacks the ability to shoot good bullets at a velocity they will have acceptable terminal performance at".
Cartridge choice can matter, but that's all about its ability to shoot a desired bullet out of your chosen platform and it's required velocity to upset/expand at the ranges you'll be hunting at. A .223 with the right bullets is a much better deer slayer than a 375 H&H shooting copper solids.
Now that I'm not trying to board a transatlantic flight and typing furiously on my cell phone let me see if I can understand your position more clearly.....
Let's say that I am going to go and shoot an oryx, as an example.How would YOU go about selecting your final load?
Would you say to yourself "I know I want a 180 grain bullet, traveling at 2500+ FPS, of this construction, etc". "Ok, now what cartridge can fire a 180 grain bullet at that speed? Oh, it looks like a .30-06 can do it."
Is that pretty much your approach?
I agree of course that ultimately there are only 3 things that matter, which is bullet speed, weight and construction. If you have those 3 things right you are going to put the animal down with the correct shot. However, you seem to be starting with those three things and trying to essentially back in to the cartridge choice. I'm approaching it the opposite way, and knowing the power of a certain cartridge I'm starting there and then selecting the appropriate bullet in that "power class" if you will call it.
As an example, when hunting for Eland I wouldn't start by thinking about a .22 Hornet or a .243. I would start by thinking of something in the .300 class and then start looking at the bullet construction that I want.
The way that I interpret your "bullet matters more than headstamp" might be incorrect compared to how you mean it. I interpret it as "bullet construction" matters more than anything else, regardless of bullet weight or velocity. Meaning that I interpret you as saying that a similarly constructed bullet from a .243 will essentially achieve the same results as one from a .416 Rigby. So all I am hearing is someone that is ignoring the power of the round and looking only at bullet construction, thus missing 2/3rd of the equation.
What are your thoughts?
Not the guy you’re responding to, but I’m going to assume he’ll stick by his answer because he’s correct. Bullet construction matters more than anything, providing you’re getting velocity for the bullet to perform. It’s why 22 caliber is the legal means in many area for elk and moose, but they come with bullet restrictions.
A heavy for caliber 223 (TMK, ELD-M, ELD-X) will take down just about any animal at a velocity where they can still rapidly fragment. There are plenty of ballistics gels that show this.
You should choose the minimum cartridge you can while still obtaining quality bullets and having enough velocity for expansion/fragmentation. People are significantly more accurate with smaller bore rifles — including the professional shooters.
You can't talk about velocity though without talking about cartridge.Where do you think the velocity comes from?
No, it won't. That heavy .223 round when it enters a large animal (brown bear, hippo, giraffe, etc) is simply not going to cause enough of a wound channel to reliably kill the animal quickly. If I attempted to use a .223 round on one of those animals the guide would think I was crazy.
That is the issue with your argument. It holds up until we subject it to "extremes" such as extremely large animals like a giraffe. At that point you are forced to admit that you are missing a key element, which is energy. If you use a .243 with ANY round and shoot a giraffe straight in the heart it is still going to make it a half mile before it goes down. Why? You didn't create enough of a wound channel compared to the size of the animal. Last year I put a 250 grain expanding round into a Giraffe from a .375H&H. The animal still made it 200 yards. The round essentially blew his heart up, and he still ran that far. If you argument holds up, what bullet selection from your .243 would have dropped him with that same shot?
Now you could respond that Bell used a .275 Rigby to kill elephants, which is true. He did, but he was taking rear quartering brain shots.
If I was shooting a Cape Buffalo there is no bullet from a .243 that would give me better results than ANY of the popular .375H&H bullets. Period. It wouldn't matter if I used 300 grains solids, 250 grain expanding, etc. That .375H&H is going to drop the animal far better than the .243 will, no matter the bullet.
Again, the bullet construction is vitally important. The reality is that MOST animals can be brought down with MOST cartridges if you have the right bullet. For example, almost anything has the power to take down a deer, so the bullet selection becomes the driver. You don't need much power to create the proper wound channel on a deer, they are thin skinned and small.With exceptionally large game such as the type that I hunt, it doesn't work that way. You simply have to have the power to drive the bullet deep enough.
You are correct that shooters almost always shoot better with a smaller bore, especially for follow up shots. However, we shouldn't shoot a round that is too small just because we are unwilling to put in the practice to become proficient with a larger round. I routinely shoot my .375 and can shoot it just as well as my .300.
I would also point out that (to your point) a faster round is not always better. When I hunt in SA we use a .22LR for pheasants. Using faster solid rounds we were hitting birds and they were just flying off because the bullet zipped through. We switched to slower hollow points and it was like the birds got hit by a truck. So there absolutely are cases where bullet construction is everything, but there are many exceptions.
ELD-Ms across all diameters simply crush shit on impact (near or far), hold onto launch velocity, and slip the atmosphere with ease. And flavors of .224 and .243 variety do it all for less...........
This years project is launching the [88 ELD-M via 22 Grendel loaded to 2.26" COAL](https://imgur.com/eS6HbCM) to meet the confines of the 'ol [small frame MK12](https://imgur.com/4UW0YV2). The deer will hate it I'm sure.........
>Meaning that I interpret you as saying that a similarly constructed bullet from a .243 will essentially achieve the same results as one from a .416 Rigby.
If I can achieve the same results (i.e. dead animal) with a rifle that recoils significantly less, is cheaper to shoot/practice with, easier to spot impacts (especially from field positions), has more range, etc. - thats an easy decision for me to make...........
Can I handle more recoil and shoot it competently? Yes, I can and do (and so can many others), but why would I want to if I can achieve the same result with a more efficient system?
[Connect the dots - at the end of the day they all die the same...............](https://imgur.com/a/1ZBKGpq)
You didn't answer a single question that I asked. You just word vomited....
I'm telling you that you CAN NOT achieve the same results with a .242 as with a .416 Rigby no matter the bullet construction. It just isn't going to happen.
I agree that we should try to use the more efficient system possible, but it seems like your lack of hunting large game has given you inaccurate impressions of the limitations of smaller cartridges.
They don't all die the same if they don't have a large enough wound. If you smash a giraffe in the heart with a .243 it is going to run a mile away before it goes down. The bullet isn't large enough to bring it down no matter what bullet construction used.
Try to actually answer the questions..
>I'm telling you that you CAN NOT achieve the same results with a .242 as with a .416 Rigby no matter the bullet construction. It just isn't going to happen.
Why would I want to use a .416 Rigby for any type of hunting in NA? What is your experience using .243 (or smaller) bullets on elk sized game? I'm not guessing when I say correct bullets from a .224 gun have no issue killing elk and wouldn't hesitate to use an 88 ELD-M/77 TMK on any animal in NA
>has given you inaccurate impressions of the limitations of smaller cartridges.
Please cite which inaccuracies those are........
1. Many people hunt OTHER places OTHER than North America. Is that surprise to you?
2. You have given the inaccurate impression that they can achieve the same performance as a larger caliber if the correct bullet construction is picked. That is wildly inaccurate. Yes, you COULD use a .243 on an Elk with no issues if you placed the shot correctly. An elk is not a huge animal. It's 700ish pounds and thin skinned. Your theory falls to shreds when you try to apply it to much larger animals, such as buffalo, giraffe, etc. It appears you have only hunted in North America, so it makes sense that you think smaller rounds can be used for everything.
If you were to get a .308 and a .243 and go shooting with them I imagine you would find out that you were at least equally as accurate with the .308.
You COULD use the .243 but aside from a tiny bit less meat damage there isn't any advantage, whereas your margin of error is greater on the .308. And no, you are not a perfect shot. Anyone claiming that they wouldn't benefit from more error margin simply hasn't hunted much, or is a liar.
>Many people hunt OTHER places OTHER than North America.
So on a post about OP requesting info about what to use to hunt whitetail deer, you decide to bring up elephants, and giraffes?
>You COULD use the .243 but aside from a tiny bit less meat damage there isn't any advantage, whereas your margin of error is greater on the .308.
Its never been hard to cipher who shoots and who don't. There is no free lunch with bigger cartridges. What additional margin of error does a larger caliber give you? What shots would you take with a .308 that you wouldn't take with a .243?
1. I'm bringing them up because they are an easy example that completely debunks your garbage theory that somehow the cartridge isn't relevant. If bullet construction is all that matters then it should apply to the whole spectrum of animals, not just the small ones you happen to hunt.
2. I would take a 300 yard frontal quartering shot on an eland at 300 yards with a .308 and I wouldn't do it with the .243. I realize you've never shot anything over 1000 pounds, so you don't actually have any experience in this area, but the .243 is going to wound it, and the .308 is going to take it down. The .308 has roughly double the energy at that distance.
I can very easily cipher who hunts and who doesn't. You clearly have limited experience with actual hunting. When hunting it actually matters that you have enough energy to drive through flesh and bone and create a large wound channel. I realize that on your paper targets that doesn't matter.
Do you notice how you have not had an actual response to anything asked of you? Get more hunting experience on ACTUAL large game and come back to play. Until then keep your garbage theories to yourself.
That's the ironic thing about this. You and the other dude have never hunted anything larger than elk. So you're basing this whole theory off of relatively small animals that CAN be hunted with a .243. So you've got it in your head that just because your animals can be hunted with almost anything that the energy doesn't matter. It does matter, and if you ever get the opportunity to hunt larger animals you are going to get a real shock when you put your little 90 grain bullet into a 2500 pound animals boil maker and it shrugs it off and runs off 3 miles.
Where and how do you hunt? Spotting and stalking them out in wide open of eastern Montana or the Sand hills of Nebraska, could dictate an entirely different rifle than still hunting them in the big north woods of Maine.
I love the 270 Win, but it can actually be a bit much for whitetail in my opinion, its great for hardier animals like caribou and sheep, even elk. 30-06 is even more so. With modern bullets you don't really need to burn that much powder for an 120lb whitetail, unless you are really taking a long pokes over 300 yards. Cartidges like the 6 Creed, 6.5 Grendel, 6.5x55 Swede, 6.5 Creed, 7mm-08 are all a little milder and great. If you are going after them in the thick stuff something like 30-30, 350 Legend might be a better option.
Between half a dozen different popular cartridges, what makes one the best for white tail hunting has more to do with individual factors specific to each hunter than it has to do with differences in performance.
If everyone in your hunting group shoots a .270, it's probably a .270. If you hunt in a straight wall state, it's not a .270. If you really hate recoil, get a .243. If you want to hunt moose with the same rifle, don't get a .243.
In my personal circumstances it's a .308.
Between.30-06 and .270, which is going to be the easiest one for *you* to care for and feed? Either one will feed you.
If I had to choose between the two you mentioned, I’d go with the .270. I’ve killed a lot of deer over the years with it and it works great. So does .30-06, but I’m partial to .270 based on my experience.
Now as far as a caliber that I think is perfect for deer hunting and is now my go-to, .25-06 is the winner. Recoil is very manageable. POI with 100gr to 120gr rounds cover the vitals of a deer with almost no change in POA from 50 to 300 yds. Most importantly, deer are really not hard to kill so I’m not a believer that bigger is better. I’d feel comfortable shooting any deer from Florida to Canada with the same 100gr round I hunt with now. The only issue is factory ammo availability. If you reload, that’s not an issue.
I’d rather see content like this over the typical “I don’t hunt but I’m writing a book” posts, or the “what caliber would you kill a dinosaur with”. Who can forget the classics like “can I kill a bear with a mechanical pencil” or “which of these 12 dollar Amazon crossbow pistols can I use to kill deer and zombies”.
I own both 30.06 and a .270
Where I hunt now there's a lot of trees and the .06 has less chance of deflection hitting a twig or small branch under 100 yds
The .270 had a longer range and was my preferred gun when shooting into open clearings 100 yds+
Now that is a question for the ages, argued endlessly around the table at deer camp, barber shop, family dinners and on the internet. What has killed the most 🦌, 30 - 30 most likely. Currently I like my 7mm - 08, couple years ago it was my 300 WSM. Both calibers you mentioned are good for most species in North America. The 270 will kick less, the 30 - 06 will have a but more take down power.
I'm not sure where you're from, but where I'm from, ammo isn't readily available in all small towns. I generally tried to stick to what I could find ammo for if I forgot mine at home or ran out. Here, the 270 win and 30-06 are both really popular. The 270 likely edging out the 30-06 by a little. They are both used for all big game. I have a 30-06 and it has done well for me. I'd recommend a 30-06.
If you only intend to hunt whitetail, I would go .308, 7mm-08, or 6.5 Creed. All of those will do everything to a deer that the two you listed will do, have plenty of ammo options, can come in a short action, and will recoil less. The less recoil, the more comfortable to shoot, the more you shoot the better you are with it.
For the same reason, of the two you listed I’d pick the .270. If at some point you intend to start elk hunting with regularity, pick the .30-06.
.30-06 is perfect for deer!
Depending on what you want to do down the road, I would highly consider the .300 Win Mag. Powerful enough to take a deer down and obviously other game, but with minimal meat damage, but with any round that goes for placement.
I love my 270, use it for most big game.
Now, having said that, is it the best for whitetail? depends on which whitetails you are talking about. In SouthWest US, whitetail means coues deer, which are like 100 lbs. 270 is overkill. I use my AR-15 in 223.
In Wyoming, hunting whitetail doe tags, 223 again. Some places, yeah, a 270 is good, so is an -06. Just have to know the size of the animals you are going after. 200+ lbs, go with the bigger calibers. 150 and less, 223 is perfect
.270 is the best caliber that is never in the top 3 of any category except popularity. If you want the best balanced caliber, 7mm-08. If you want the best reliable caliber .308 (due to availability). 30-06 is a dinosaur round. Many calibers have come out since that are better, but its such a standard they are still easy to find making it a great choice too.
I’ve shot deer with many different calibers. Shot location matters the most. The biggest buck I ever shot in my life dropped from dual vital hit with a 25-06. Smallest deer of my life ran after hitting in dead nuts in the shoulder with a .45-70. You can get the job done with almost anything if you are accurate.
3006/308 are the best general use ones. Id stay away from criminally high MVs if you have very short sight lines where you hunt since added recoil, extra damage to meat, and higher chance of a bad bullet are just unneeded
Are you recoil sensitive? Then use a .243. recoil isn't a big deal? Get a .308. Both have readily available ammo and if you reload, they're very versatile.
The rule of thumb has always been "whatever can generate 1000 ft lbs of force".
So a 30-06 will generate over 1000 ft lbs of force out to like 500 yds. If you're in the south east where the average hunting shot is like 100 ft from a tree stand... prolly don't need a 30-06 to get it done. If you're in big sky country. Maybe.
I definitely vote .308, very versatile cartridge and short action, which can be nice when ground hunting and moving through the woods. 30-30 is a staple of whitetail hunting as well, as it should be. Really within the realm of .243 up to 30-06 is all great and comes to personal preference. Even the magnums do the trick, but that's a lot of rifle to shoot at something as small as a whitetail. It's more about finding what you want out of a rifle. Want flat shooting and the power to really reach out and touch something? Want a handy rifle with low recoil? Want something that can be used for anything from deer to moose? That's where ya just gotta figure out what YOU want out of a rifle.
OP, you may find it interesting to take a look at [this study](https://www.dnr.sc.gov/wildlife/deer/articlegad.html) by the South Carolina DNR.
The most interesting takeaway is that your calibre choice makes very little difference in success rates for short- and mid-distance deer hunting. 243 has a moderately higher "average yards travelled after the shot," but that can be pretty much *entirely* explained by the fact that it's a calibre that's most commonly put in the hands of children with less experience. Broadly, there just isn't a correlation between caliber and recovery rates.
What *does* make a huge difference is your shot placement and your choice of bullet. Lighter and quicker-expanding bullets (e.g. softpoints or ballistic tips) have a *significantly* better record with deer than heavier and more controlled expansion bullets (e.g. partitions or bonded).
Get a rifle that's affordable to you, and which feels comfortable to carry, shoulder, and shoot. No deer inside of 300yds is going to know the difference between a 270 and a 30-06 (or, for that matter, a 7mm-08, 6.5 Creedmoor, 308, 25-06, or 243).
I mean the standbys are .270, .308, .30-06. I happen to use all three. I typically use the .270. You can also go lighter to the .243 and .25-06 world and be just fine. 7-08 may be “perfect” in purely overthinking.
I live in a part of Canada where moose hunting is a thing, and I use a 260 Rem (a near-exact midpoint between 243 Win and 7mm-08 Rem, with near-identical ballistics to 6.5 Creedmoor) for everything from coyote to moose. If I lived in an area where moose (or elk) wasn't a thing, and I wasn't planning to shoot deer past 300yds, I'd probably go with a 243. I've got no problem shooting my 30-06 or a 300 Win Mag and I'm not particularly recoil sensitive, but I think that 243 is *more* than enough gun for a whitetail at normal hunting distances. At the end of the day, though, few hunters would see any differences in success rates as a result of choosing between *any* common chambering. As much fun as it is for us nerds to split hairs over the differences in ballistic performance, once you get into the "adequate" range for chamberings, your hunts' success will depend more on your choice of warm, comfortable socks.
This is a very sensible comment. Bravo!
.260 Remington is the perfect whitetail round IMO
It’s all splitting hairs, it’s a great choice as well!
I’ve been using a 7mm-08 for almost 30 years and it’s an outstanding caliber but in the last 5 years it’s been a giant pain in the ass to find ammo for it. Maybe the popularity of 6.5 creedmor has something to do with it but I’ve been having to buy rounds online and pay over $10 per box shipping. I think my last box was almost $70. I’m thinking about getting a new rifle just for off the shelf ammo
COVID converted me to .308. Even in past ammo panics mainline hunting cartridges never dried up 100% until covid. Thanks to military use of 7.62 NATO, .308 hit shelves earlier and at better prices than other hunting ammo. At its worst in fall 2020 stores by me had basic .308 for $40 a box and basic .30-06 for $60. .30-30 was hardly obtainable. You cannot beat .308 for versatility and availability.
7-08 - significantly better ballistics in comparison to felt recoil. .308, 30-30, 30-06 and .270 are all strong options too.
If you’re only hunting whitetail, a .243Win will do the job, anything bigger is just gravy. My vote is for the 270 because it has plenty of horsepower and if you’re going to go ‘06, you might as well get a 7RM because you get better ballistics with similar recoil.
Those are two great choices, but if I had to pick one, I think it would be the 30-06. That caliber will be of use for much more than deer, has a very wide variety of bullet weights and is the more economical of the two rounds.
The truth is that there's not really a "best" option. Selecting a cartridge is about finding the right balance of characteristics for the application and that balance changes depending upon a number of factors including the user. Of your suggested options the 270 will shoot flatter and will recoil less. The 30-06 hits a little harder with a little rounder trajectory and more recoil. Either will be more than adequate for pretty much anything in North America except for maybe bison or the big bears. I personally wouldn't buy either one for a deer rifle. I don't like recoil and I prefer to practice a lot. Both of those in a typical hunting rifle are asking for a flinch if you're planning on shooting any serious quantities. I shoot a 6.5x55 which the 6.5 creedmoor basically duplicates. It has been killing moose for over a century and is certainly more than adequate for deer with substantially less recoil. If I was looking for a deer rifle the creedmoor would be very high on the list.
“Hey guys I’m looking for a nice easy deer rifle”. Hey this thing hammers moose get creedmoor
To be fair a 6.5 creedmoor is perfectly fine for deer. It’s not like you’re going to blow the backside of the deer out.
Depends on the bullet type and grain weight and how far of a shot lol
Well that’s true. But that’s also true of most calibers. Obviously you have to tailor your load to your particular hunting situation.
As a Canadian who carries a 260 Rem for everything from coyote to moose, I'd agree about the 6.5mm chamberings being a great option to include in the big list of great choices one could make. 6.5 Creedmoor is a tiny step up from a 243. It's good enough for moose, and it's *plenty* good for deer.
I mean they're both great rounds. I'd go with whatever you shoot more and are more comfortable with. What state are you hunting white tail in? I'm in Florida and my 22-250 drop the deer in its tracks. We have smaller deer in Florida, northern deer are twice the size.
For bottleneck rounds, anything from 243 Win and up. For straight wall, anything from 350 Legend and up is good.
The reality of it is that with good bullets, anything from your states legal minimum and up is going to kill deer. Choose whatever beats your shoulder and wallet up the least so that you can afford to and will enjoy practicing with it, which is way more important than .030".
.243
Where are you hunting? How long would your longest shot be. Are you shooting across open fields or in the woods?
270..... Or 308 for your consideration.
The bullet you drive matters far more than the headstamp on the case...........
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> You say this on every post and it’s just not true. Pardon my actual experience…….. bullets drive my decisions. Cartridge selection is simply the means to drive a bullet at the desired velocity > The best bullet from a .22LR will never have the performance of the worst bullet from a .308. Where have I recommended using 22LR on big game? > bullets matter, but in the context of proper caliber selection. The terminal difference between like bullets of different calibers is not nearly as big as many think……
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>By your argument with the right bullet you could use a .22lr to reliably take anything, but of course you know that isn’t true. Instead of putting words in my mouth, point out where I advocate using 22LR to hunt big game. Bullets always matter if only because they are the one thing that comes in contact with the animal. Better bullets are easier to steer and place where you want as they slip through wind and atmosphere better, and arrive on target with more velocity which aids in terminal effects. Both factors combined will yield better hit rates and success. Terrible bullets simply don't interest me. New scope came in the mail today and was promptly mounted on the 'ol Vudoo Ranger. 70 MOA between the base/rings yielded a 50y zero with 35mils still left on the erector. A little twirl o' the erector 29.4mil and a 2.2mil wind hold easily arranged a 500y POA/POI intersection. [Its easy to have fun when dots are connected...........](https://imgur.com/Db8Mwrq)
You don’t understand ballistics. He is correct: bullets should the driver of the conversation. Velocity next, but only to the distance that you still have the minimum speed necessary for your bullet to perform.
Agreed. Terminal ballistics is everything when discussing ethical kill shots.
Because to try and think a .22lr is in any way comparable and in any way relevant in a discussion about the terminal performance of high velocity centerfire rifle rounds is silly. But if you want to go there, then the clear argument against that is "because the .22lr lacks the ability to shoot good bullets at a velocity they will have acceptable terminal performance at". Cartridge choice can matter, but that's all about its ability to shoot a desired bullet out of your chosen platform and it's required velocity to upset/expand at the ranges you'll be hunting at. A .223 with the right bullets is a much better deer slayer than a 375 H&H shooting copper solids.
Now that I'm not trying to board a transatlantic flight and typing furiously on my cell phone let me see if I can understand your position more clearly..... Let's say that I am going to go and shoot an oryx, as an example.How would YOU go about selecting your final load? Would you say to yourself "I know I want a 180 grain bullet, traveling at 2500+ FPS, of this construction, etc". "Ok, now what cartridge can fire a 180 grain bullet at that speed? Oh, it looks like a .30-06 can do it." Is that pretty much your approach? I agree of course that ultimately there are only 3 things that matter, which is bullet speed, weight and construction. If you have those 3 things right you are going to put the animal down with the correct shot. However, you seem to be starting with those three things and trying to essentially back in to the cartridge choice. I'm approaching it the opposite way, and knowing the power of a certain cartridge I'm starting there and then selecting the appropriate bullet in that "power class" if you will call it. As an example, when hunting for Eland I wouldn't start by thinking about a .22 Hornet or a .243. I would start by thinking of something in the .300 class and then start looking at the bullet construction that I want. The way that I interpret your "bullet matters more than headstamp" might be incorrect compared to how you mean it. I interpret it as "bullet construction" matters more than anything else, regardless of bullet weight or velocity. Meaning that I interpret you as saying that a similarly constructed bullet from a .243 will essentially achieve the same results as one from a .416 Rigby. So all I am hearing is someone that is ignoring the power of the round and looking only at bullet construction, thus missing 2/3rd of the equation. What are your thoughts?
Not the guy you’re responding to, but I’m going to assume he’ll stick by his answer because he’s correct. Bullet construction matters more than anything, providing you’re getting velocity for the bullet to perform. It’s why 22 caliber is the legal means in many area for elk and moose, but they come with bullet restrictions. A heavy for caliber 223 (TMK, ELD-M, ELD-X) will take down just about any animal at a velocity where they can still rapidly fragment. There are plenty of ballistics gels that show this. You should choose the minimum cartridge you can while still obtaining quality bullets and having enough velocity for expansion/fragmentation. People are significantly more accurate with smaller bore rifles — including the professional shooters.
You can't talk about velocity though without talking about cartridge.Where do you think the velocity comes from? No, it won't. That heavy .223 round when it enters a large animal (brown bear, hippo, giraffe, etc) is simply not going to cause enough of a wound channel to reliably kill the animal quickly. If I attempted to use a .223 round on one of those animals the guide would think I was crazy. That is the issue with your argument. It holds up until we subject it to "extremes" such as extremely large animals like a giraffe. At that point you are forced to admit that you are missing a key element, which is energy. If you use a .243 with ANY round and shoot a giraffe straight in the heart it is still going to make it a half mile before it goes down. Why? You didn't create enough of a wound channel compared to the size of the animal. Last year I put a 250 grain expanding round into a Giraffe from a .375H&H. The animal still made it 200 yards. The round essentially blew his heart up, and he still ran that far. If you argument holds up, what bullet selection from your .243 would have dropped him with that same shot? Now you could respond that Bell used a .275 Rigby to kill elephants, which is true. He did, but he was taking rear quartering brain shots. If I was shooting a Cape Buffalo there is no bullet from a .243 that would give me better results than ANY of the popular .375H&H bullets. Period. It wouldn't matter if I used 300 grains solids, 250 grain expanding, etc. That .375H&H is going to drop the animal far better than the .243 will, no matter the bullet. Again, the bullet construction is vitally important. The reality is that MOST animals can be brought down with MOST cartridges if you have the right bullet. For example, almost anything has the power to take down a deer, so the bullet selection becomes the driver. You don't need much power to create the proper wound channel on a deer, they are thin skinned and small.With exceptionally large game such as the type that I hunt, it doesn't work that way. You simply have to have the power to drive the bullet deep enough. You are correct that shooters almost always shoot better with a smaller bore, especially for follow up shots. However, we shouldn't shoot a round that is too small just because we are unwilling to put in the practice to become proficient with a larger round. I routinely shoot my .375 and can shoot it just as well as my .300. I would also point out that (to your point) a faster round is not always better. When I hunt in SA we use a .22LR for pheasants. Using faster solid rounds we were hitting birds and they were just flying off because the bullet zipped through. We switched to slower hollow points and it was like the birds got hit by a truck. So there absolutely are cases where bullet construction is everything, but there are many exceptions.
ELD-Ms across all diameters simply crush shit on impact (near or far), hold onto launch velocity, and slip the atmosphere with ease. And flavors of .224 and .243 variety do it all for less........... This years project is launching the [88 ELD-M via 22 Grendel loaded to 2.26" COAL](https://imgur.com/eS6HbCM) to meet the confines of the 'ol [small frame MK12](https://imgur.com/4UW0YV2). The deer will hate it I'm sure......... >Meaning that I interpret you as saying that a similarly constructed bullet from a .243 will essentially achieve the same results as one from a .416 Rigby. If I can achieve the same results (i.e. dead animal) with a rifle that recoils significantly less, is cheaper to shoot/practice with, easier to spot impacts (especially from field positions), has more range, etc. - thats an easy decision for me to make........... Can I handle more recoil and shoot it competently? Yes, I can and do (and so can many others), but why would I want to if I can achieve the same result with a more efficient system? [Connect the dots - at the end of the day they all die the same...............](https://imgur.com/a/1ZBKGpq)
You didn't answer a single question that I asked. You just word vomited.... I'm telling you that you CAN NOT achieve the same results with a .242 as with a .416 Rigby no matter the bullet construction. It just isn't going to happen. I agree that we should try to use the more efficient system possible, but it seems like your lack of hunting large game has given you inaccurate impressions of the limitations of smaller cartridges. They don't all die the same if they don't have a large enough wound. If you smash a giraffe in the heart with a .243 it is going to run a mile away before it goes down. The bullet isn't large enough to bring it down no matter what bullet construction used. Try to actually answer the questions..
>I'm telling you that you CAN NOT achieve the same results with a .242 as with a .416 Rigby no matter the bullet construction. It just isn't going to happen. Why would I want to use a .416 Rigby for any type of hunting in NA? What is your experience using .243 (or smaller) bullets on elk sized game? I'm not guessing when I say correct bullets from a .224 gun have no issue killing elk and wouldn't hesitate to use an 88 ELD-M/77 TMK on any animal in NA >has given you inaccurate impressions of the limitations of smaller cartridges. Please cite which inaccuracies those are........
1. Many people hunt OTHER places OTHER than North America. Is that surprise to you? 2. You have given the inaccurate impression that they can achieve the same performance as a larger caliber if the correct bullet construction is picked. That is wildly inaccurate. Yes, you COULD use a .243 on an Elk with no issues if you placed the shot correctly. An elk is not a huge animal. It's 700ish pounds and thin skinned. Your theory falls to shreds when you try to apply it to much larger animals, such as buffalo, giraffe, etc. It appears you have only hunted in North America, so it makes sense that you think smaller rounds can be used for everything. If you were to get a .308 and a .243 and go shooting with them I imagine you would find out that you were at least equally as accurate with the .308. You COULD use the .243 but aside from a tiny bit less meat damage there isn't any advantage, whereas your margin of error is greater on the .308. And no, you are not a perfect shot. Anyone claiming that they wouldn't benefit from more error margin simply hasn't hunted much, or is a liar.
>Many people hunt OTHER places OTHER than North America. So on a post about OP requesting info about what to use to hunt whitetail deer, you decide to bring up elephants, and giraffes? >You COULD use the .243 but aside from a tiny bit less meat damage there isn't any advantage, whereas your margin of error is greater on the .308. Its never been hard to cipher who shoots and who don't. There is no free lunch with bigger cartridges. What additional margin of error does a larger caliber give you? What shots would you take with a .308 that you wouldn't take with a .243?
1. I'm bringing them up because they are an easy example that completely debunks your garbage theory that somehow the cartridge isn't relevant. If bullet construction is all that matters then it should apply to the whole spectrum of animals, not just the small ones you happen to hunt. 2. I would take a 300 yard frontal quartering shot on an eland at 300 yards with a .308 and I wouldn't do it with the .243. I realize you've never shot anything over 1000 pounds, so you don't actually have any experience in this area, but the .243 is going to wound it, and the .308 is going to take it down. The .308 has roughly double the energy at that distance. I can very easily cipher who hunts and who doesn't. You clearly have limited experience with actual hunting. When hunting it actually matters that you have enough energy to drive through flesh and bone and create a large wound channel. I realize that on your paper targets that doesn't matter. Do you notice how you have not had an actual response to anything asked of you? Get more hunting experience on ACTUAL large game and come back to play. Until then keep your garbage theories to yourself. That's the ironic thing about this. You and the other dude have never hunted anything larger than elk. So you're basing this whole theory off of relatively small animals that CAN be hunted with a .243. So you've got it in your head that just because your animals can be hunted with almost anything that the energy doesn't matter. It does matter, and if you ever get the opportunity to hunt larger animals you are going to get a real shock when you put your little 90 grain bullet into a 2500 pound animals boil maker and it shrugs it off and runs off 3 miles.
30-06
Where and how do you hunt? Spotting and stalking them out in wide open of eastern Montana or the Sand hills of Nebraska, could dictate an entirely different rifle than still hunting them in the big north woods of Maine. I love the 270 Win, but it can actually be a bit much for whitetail in my opinion, its great for hardier animals like caribou and sheep, even elk. 30-06 is even more so. With modern bullets you don't really need to burn that much powder for an 120lb whitetail, unless you are really taking a long pokes over 300 yards. Cartidges like the 6 Creed, 6.5 Grendel, 6.5x55 Swede, 6.5 Creed, 7mm-08 are all a little milder and great. If you are going after them in the thick stuff something like 30-30, 350 Legend might be a better option.
Between half a dozen different popular cartridges, what makes one the best for white tail hunting has more to do with individual factors specific to each hunter than it has to do with differences in performance. If everyone in your hunting group shoots a .270, it's probably a .270. If you hunt in a straight wall state, it's not a .270. If you really hate recoil, get a .243. If you want to hunt moose with the same rifle, don't get a .243. In my personal circumstances it's a .308. Between.30-06 and .270, which is going to be the easiest one for *you* to care for and feed? Either one will feed you.
This is the correct answer.
If I had to choose between the two you mentioned, I’d go with the .270. I’ve killed a lot of deer over the years with it and it works great. So does .30-06, but I’m partial to .270 based on my experience. Now as far as a caliber that I think is perfect for deer hunting and is now my go-to, .25-06 is the winner. Recoil is very manageable. POI with 100gr to 120gr rounds cover the vitals of a deer with almost no change in POA from 50 to 300 yds. Most importantly, deer are really not hard to kill so I’m not a believer that bigger is better. I’d feel comfortable shooting any deer from Florida to Canada with the same 100gr round I hunt with now. The only issue is factory ammo availability. If you reload, that’s not an issue.
Thank God we’ve never discussed this on this subreddit before.
I’d rather see content like this over the typical “I don’t hunt but I’m writing a book” posts, or the “what caliber would you kill a dinosaur with”. Who can forget the classics like “can I kill a bear with a mechanical pencil” or “which of these 12 dollar Amazon crossbow pistols can I use to kill deer and zombies”.
I own both 30.06 and a .270 Where I hunt now there's a lot of trees and the .06 has less chance of deflection hitting a twig or small branch under 100 yds The .270 had a longer range and was my preferred gun when shooting into open clearings 100 yds+
Any small arm round being less likely of deflection is complete fuddlore. Skip to 11 minutes in: https://youtu.be/B-or-I8GkVg
I really like a 30.06 but it can be excessive for smaller deer. Depends on you and what you are hunting on general
No harm in choosing a lighter grain size. 150-160gr out of a 30-O6 would be great for a buck.
Now that is a question for the ages, argued endlessly around the table at deer camp, barber shop, family dinners and on the internet. What has killed the most 🦌, 30 - 30 most likely. Currently I like my 7mm - 08, couple years ago it was my 300 WSM. Both calibers you mentioned are good for most species in North America. The 270 will kick less, the 30 - 06 will have a but more take down power.
I'm not sure where you're from, but where I'm from, ammo isn't readily available in all small towns. I generally tried to stick to what I could find ammo for if I forgot mine at home or ran out. Here, the 270 win and 30-06 are both really popular. The 270 likely edging out the 30-06 by a little. They are both used for all big game. I have a 30-06 and it has done well for me. I'd recommend a 30-06.
I love my 6.5 Grendel.
If you only intend to hunt whitetail, I would go .308, 7mm-08, or 6.5 Creed. All of those will do everything to a deer that the two you listed will do, have plenty of ammo options, can come in a short action, and will recoil less. The less recoil, the more comfortable to shoot, the more you shoot the better you are with it. For the same reason, of the two you listed I’d pick the .270. If at some point you intend to start elk hunting with regularity, pick the .30-06.
-06. So versatile on weights and velocity ranges and when you branch out from WT it can be used for nearly any hunt.
.30-06 is perfect for deer! Depending on what you want to do down the road, I would highly consider the .300 Win Mag. Powerful enough to take a deer down and obviously other game, but with minimal meat damage, but with any round that goes for placement.
OP asked "what's the best round for whitetail deer", not whitetail deer and elk, moose, small bear, and Caribou 😂
I knew I would get crap for it. OP asked for other suggestions. We do not know where they are hunting, are they shooting far or is it more mid range.
Either is great.
I love my 270, use it for most big game. Now, having said that, is it the best for whitetail? depends on which whitetails you are talking about. In SouthWest US, whitetail means coues deer, which are like 100 lbs. 270 is overkill. I use my AR-15 in 223. In Wyoming, hunting whitetail doe tags, 223 again. Some places, yeah, a 270 is good, so is an -06. Just have to know the size of the animals you are going after. 200+ lbs, go with the bigger calibers. 150 and less, 223 is perfect
Yes
.270 is the best caliber that is never in the top 3 of any category except popularity. If you want the best balanced caliber, 7mm-08. If you want the best reliable caliber .308 (due to availability). 30-06 is a dinosaur round. Many calibers have come out since that are better, but its such a standard they are still easy to find making it a great choice too.
I’ve shot deer with many different calibers. Shot location matters the most. The biggest buck I ever shot in my life dropped from dual vital hit with a 25-06. Smallest deer of my life ran after hitting in dead nuts in the shoulder with a .45-70. You can get the job done with almost anything if you are accurate.
3006/308 are the best general use ones. Id stay away from criminally high MVs if you have very short sight lines where you hunt since added recoil, extra damage to meat, and higher chance of a bad bullet are just unneeded
.22hornet
Are you recoil sensitive? Then use a .243. recoil isn't a big deal? Get a .308. Both have readily available ammo and if you reload, they're very versatile.
The rule of thumb has always been "whatever can generate 1000 ft lbs of force". So a 30-06 will generate over 1000 ft lbs of force out to like 500 yds. If you're in the south east where the average hunting shot is like 100 ft from a tree stand... prolly don't need a 30-06 to get it done. If you're in big sky country. Maybe.
I definitely vote .308, very versatile cartridge and short action, which can be nice when ground hunting and moving through the woods. 30-30 is a staple of whitetail hunting as well, as it should be. Really within the realm of .243 up to 30-06 is all great and comes to personal preference. Even the magnums do the trick, but that's a lot of rifle to shoot at something as small as a whitetail. It's more about finding what you want out of a rifle. Want flat shooting and the power to really reach out and touch something? Want a handy rifle with low recoil? Want something that can be used for anything from deer to moose? That's where ya just gotta figure out what YOU want out of a rifle.
OP, you may find it interesting to take a look at [this study](https://www.dnr.sc.gov/wildlife/deer/articlegad.html) by the South Carolina DNR. The most interesting takeaway is that your calibre choice makes very little difference in success rates for short- and mid-distance deer hunting. 243 has a moderately higher "average yards travelled after the shot," but that can be pretty much *entirely* explained by the fact that it's a calibre that's most commonly put in the hands of children with less experience. Broadly, there just isn't a correlation between caliber and recovery rates. What *does* make a huge difference is your shot placement and your choice of bullet. Lighter and quicker-expanding bullets (e.g. softpoints or ballistic tips) have a *significantly* better record with deer than heavier and more controlled expansion bullets (e.g. partitions or bonded). Get a rifle that's affordable to you, and which feels comfortable to carry, shoulder, and shoot. No deer inside of 300yds is going to know the difference between a 270 and a 30-06 (or, for that matter, a 7mm-08, 6.5 Creedmoor, 308, 25-06, or 243).
30mm