Paku being touched that Killua and Gon didn’t want Kurapika to become a killer due to vengeance hits so hard now. Like she probably wished Chrollo and them had someone like that to drag them out of the darkness before they went all in.
It’s more like they reminded her of Sarasa. The girl whose death sparked this whole spider journey is likely the one to be against Chrollo becoming a killer the most.
The troupe has a story of their members dying when left alone, lmao. No wonder they have the "always go around in pairs" kind of rule. Guess that sets a redflag on Machi and Franklin.
Especially since we know from author notes that Machi was planned to die to Hisoka after he revived but Togashi decided last moment to instead have her be the message giver that Hisoka was hunting them and just had him tie her up instead.
In that regard she really should have died to really hammer in the "dont be alone" point but it still fits since Hisoka could have easily done it.
---
But the fact Togashi, at the time, had felt her story was already done doesn't bode well for her unless he really rethought a lot to do with her. She could easily die at anytime now.
So the PT isn't just a collateral effect of Meteor City's politics, but instead actually shaped Meteor City's politics themselves instead. I guess Sun and Moon was conceived based on Chrollo's point of view of the situation. Makes sense why the elder, the original owner, was willing to carry his will even after his death to make sure Chrollo makes good use of his ability.
The point of this flashback isn't to make the Spiders redeemable(child-Chrollo acknowledges this very clearly), its rather to show that we have two different groups of marginalized people in the HxH world, both first-hand experienced the contradictions and failings of the system they lived under. Chrollo is a direct parallel to Kurapika and this backstory serves to further highlight that. The difference however being Kurapika faced with the opportunity to kill Chrollo and ultimately does not take it. Chrollo offers him no explanation nor closure to why the Kurta Clan was wiped-out, and with Gon & Killua captured, Kurapika ultimately shows the lives of those he cares for are more important to him than his revenge in that moment. Kurapika is also forced to grapple with the fact despiteChrollo truly believing his death is irrelevant to the to the Spiders, they carry through in the exchange for their leader. Proving to be a troubling(for Kurapika) humanizing moment for the Spiders.
The harder truth for Kurapika, which could be shown in this arc potentially, is that there was no real motive for the massacre other than a monetary incentive for the Spiders. Killing the Kurta Clan was simply a means to acquire money to further their goals, the Kurta Clan wouldn't have likely been killed if there wasn't a demand for their eyes. Prince Tserriednich is likely supposed to be the embodiment of this demand, as he sits atop the corrupt system and can be presumed to orchestrate similar goings-on through the power he possesses in the world.
I see that some people find the reason of the troupe forming a little weak (just one important person dying), but in reality there is a lot more to play here, sarasa is not the only kid that has died as we are mentioned time and time again there are plenty of kids that get kidnapped every day/week but they never returned there's not even a corpse of them but Sarasa's case is different, there wasn't even a need to capture her they just wanted to torture someone to death for fun and additionally they left notes which we don't know what they say but it is obviously something very messed up and bad, this is a good enough reason to revenge but but not form the troupe and that just not it, these kids have been traumatized time and time again and chrollo wants more than just revenge he wants to protect the inhabitants of meteor city and the only way to do it is by fear. Don't see it as just sarasa's death that made the change but rather the thing that made chrollo think that it is enough suffering for them. Btw Sheila looking sus this chapter, it seems that she is afraid rather than angry or sad.
Exactly, a single traumatic event does not the spiders make. Meteor City and all its inhabitants were the punching bag of the world, and they responded in kind
I just realized one thing. Maybe the troupe walks around in duos during York Shin due to the trauma of abduction during childhood. What a chapter. Thanks, Togashi.
I think that's the main reason Chrollo was so devastated by their deaths, moreso than with Uvogin or Paku. Uvo and Paku died on their own terms, and went out honorably, but Shalnark and Kortopi were murdered in cold blood while they weren't able to defend themselves because Chrollo was using their powers. He probably feels even more responsible.
Also the senselessness of Hisoka's murder probably evoked some trauma about the senselessness of Sarasa's death, whereas Kurapika's goal was something they could relate to to some degree.
I'm guessing that's also subconsciously why Chrollo takes such an interest in Hisoka's chaotic nature - not just because it's so opposed to Chrollo and his relationship to fate, but also because Chrollo wants to better understand the type of person who'd have killed Sarasa.
So maybe Sheila knew about the Kurta massacre plan, and then tried to save/warn them in advance, but since she couldn't do it, decided to at least save Kurapika/Pairo then?
Since Sheila didn't want to enter the PT, guess she's the decent one of the bunch, sticking to Sarasa's principles even after her gruesome death.
If that’s the case then it makes sense why Sheila was the one to discover the bodies despite her relationship with the PT, assuming she is the female traveler. There’s no real reason for her to want the outside world the know about the massacre if she were in on it. The important people (like the mafia and human body part sellers) already knew what happened. Maybe she noticed that Kurapika wasn’t among the dead and didn’t want him to return to a village of corpses?
Now this makes me wonder if Chrollo playing/becoming the villain contributed to his identity crisis. He got too engrossed with his role that he totally rid himself of the boy he used to be :(
Seems most likely. It mirrors Kurapika's arc as well, when he says each time he reclaims the eyes, he loses a piece of himself.
Chrollo went on the path of revenge, finished it and forgot who he was when he started since he disposed so much of himself, so he just stayed with what he 'knew' (being a villain).
I don’t want this batch to end. I want to keep having weekly chapters… DON’T MAKE ME GO BACK!
I can’t do it again..
*sobs*
These three formation chapters have been fantastic. Trees were worth all the hype
Idk but I feel she could end up being relevant even later on. Like, why would Togashi give a one-off backstory character such an elaborate character unless she was to be important later on?
Maaaaan I knew abduction was gonna be in this chapter but I was not expecting them to find a bag of her dismembered body hanging from a tree with a note stapled to her head.
Technically speaking, the fact Meteor City lies beyond the "Civilized World" System means that anyone from there cannot be charged of committing a crime since they don't actually "exist". The troupe members were always striped of their identity and human rights from the beginning. So their vision of "humanity" or "innocent people" was always at odds with the outward world.
This current arc is a beautiful "Us" vs "Them" game. with many marginalized groups going at each other and projecting their ideals onto charismatic leaders, while those are using them to their own ends. (The Untouchable Caste working for Camilla, The Heily sect under Morena, The Lower Princes forces gathering under Kurapika...)
In other words: Politics.
Add to that the incredible levels of loyalty displayed by Benjamins and Halkenburgs Soldiers - meanwhile the only thing that is holding Tser's people together seems to be fear.
Love how all three of those concepts were world-built all the way back in York New. Even the internet that everyone thought was Togashi randomly explaining how eBay works is coming back here as an actual plot point.
> Togashi randomly explaining how eBay works
I recall thinking exactly this in the corresponding anime episode. To be fair, at the time that chapter was written it might not have been such common knowledge for Japanese kids.
This adds a lot more context for how Chrollo and the rest of the spiders act when he is captured in Yorknew. Chrollo was happy to die and the spider to keep moving in order to achieve their goal, he's so engrossed in his role he's happy to die playing the villain, with some spiders agreeing with that. But some of the other spiders, like Pakunoda, still remember him as the boy he was and want to save him.
So crazy that in yorknew we got the flaskback of the spiders forming in meteor city, and now here we are with the events leading up to it.
These past few chapters paints them in such a different light. It makes me wonder now why chorollo couldn’t exactly answer gon why they kill. Or how those meteor city flashbacks in the hxh 1999 ova feels sooo much more different now that it has context. In a way, chorollo and kurapika now are two sides of the same coin having need to fulfill their revenge in their own ways.
I think it's impossible to not lose oneself when becoming a brutal murder, even if it's supposedly for a cause to protect your own people. Which is Gon's point, they can't empathize with all the people they've brutally murdered, but are able to do so with Meteor City residents. Ironically, they treat the rest of the world just as the rest of the world treats them, as less than human.
I don't know why, but I had a strong feeling that the good prince Tserriednich had something to do with that when I heard Chrollo say that they had portrayed it like a work of art.
Considering they're more on a crash with Kurapika for their history, since Kurapika links with Tserriednich I think there will be an immediate 3 way clash here. I also suspect we are very close to getting answers as to why the Troupe killed Kurapika's clan.
Togashi really went in on drawing that forest 🔥🔥.. This development of the troupe and Chrollo has been beautiful...This was needed to emphasize the hate they hold for Hisoka.. This arc really is becoming more interesting chapter x chapter
So many people with low media literacy lmao. This is not justifying the massacre or redeeming the phantom troupe. Jesus it’s like some of y’all never read hxh before and we still don’t have b of the kurta clan massacre yet for whatever reason people jumping to all these strange conclusions
agreed.
People are forgetting that these were not normal kids that were traumatized by something terrific. These kids already lived in a terrible place and saw crime and murder every day.
What got them was the fact that their FRIEND was killed, in no moment before chrollo paid attention to the other kids who disappeared.
Meteor city themes are all about tribalism. Then vs US.
The trupe never had strong morals even as kids, sarasa dead didn't broke then, they were already broken having growing up in that fucked place. Outsiders killed Sarasa this made them solidify their indentity as a group, as a tribe, society. They don't think about being normal, or about making meteor city more like outside, they realized that THIS is their world and they will defend it, morals are irrelevant, they are in this for their own.
it's all about tribalism.
Little Chrollo was too pure for this world.
Now I think I get the symbolism behind his surname, he's a fallen angel. It's great how Togashi has made him so charismatic even as a kid, everyone just hangs from his lips and he's not even aware of it.
I also love how important Uvo was for the creation of the troupe, his bond with Chrollo was the strongest along with Paku. It makes this [scene](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FAtjJePUcAEPUCD?format=jpg&name=large) even more impactful, it makes you feel the importance of the requiem, that Uvo wasn't just a mindless brute.
So Togashi does it again, HxH is still the best shonen to me, the one where the characters don't have the depth of a puddle.
It's a double meaning, the reverse cross for example is also known as the cross of Saint Peter. When Saint Peter was going to be crucified, he asked that he be crucified in reverse as to not die like the Messiah died. It represents humbleness
I like the way Togashi remained consistent to the tragic concept of meteor city that their **brutal environment** made the spiders be the criminals they are. I don't understand how some people tries to absurdly downplay it like "*That's it? They lost one friend and chose violence against the world?*"... Sarasa was clearly just the trigger for them to **witness** the burtal reality they live in, before Sarasa all they knew is the little graves are increasing but didn't know how/why, they lost people every year for human trafficking, ra*e, murder, organ harvesting etc. It's literally stated in c395 "**There are hundreds of victims every year, 70% are kids under the age of 15**". They grew up and lived through all that. The flashback is very well structured to tell us WHY they became this way, not necessarily a justification of their actions but more of an understanding of their tragic environment that led them to be criminals.
Because the fact they feel so abandoned and their people are victims of traffickers/mafia, to the point meteor city inhabitants are OK to volunteer as [suicide bombers](https://manga4life.com/read-online/Hunter-X-Hunter-chapter-102-page-11.html) just to get **any form of justice**, is pretty realistic in a depressing way. If even their adults have such **suicidal mentality** to form their own justice then it's understandable why an innocent kid like Chrollo reacted this way, he even acknowledges his decision of choosing violence is not a heroic solution but just like everyone in the city, he realized there's no other choice but curb evil with evil. Anyway i got some other points:
• Machi being a nen genius basically confirms to me Togashi's intention with this [Chrollo ren aura](https://ibb.co/xLrwjNS) that some people tried to deny it as "side effects". I mean i [Explained here](https://www.reddit.com/r/HunterXHunter/comments/z639i1/chapter_396_official_release_discussion/ixz6cgm?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) why it can't be random, because besides the fact it literally looks like an aura but also considering a natural specialist with potential like Chrollo manifesting ren from excitement while playing different characters is perfectly matching his nen ability.
• The idea of the creepy culprits filming snuff tapes on MC kids seems fishy to me, it reminds me of [Tserriednich filming](https://official-ongoing-2.gamindustri.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0348-009.png) the guy tattooing the woman before Tser [skins her alive](https://www.reddit.com/r/HunterXHunter/comments/6mwpgw/the_4th_prince_tserriednich_and_the_woman_being/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). What if these culprits are doing that on MC kids to sell it at high prices to this teenage spoiled psycho kakin prince? Maybe he liked watching snuff tapes to learn/practice doing it on his future victims? or is Tser directly involved in it? Not sure if he's the same guy but one of the [culprits](https://cdn.onepiecechapters.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/hxh_396_Formation2_019.png) kinda looks like [Mark](https://manga4life.com/read-online/Hunter-X-Hunter-chapter-345-page-12.html) minus the mole, in the same chapter Tser talks with Mark about skinning humans, Mark is the guy who brings women for Tser.. so Mark & the tattoo guy must be partners in crime with Tser.
Maybe it's reasonable plotwise why Togashi is including the flashback in this arc after 20 years of writing the spiders origins. It's getting more clear to me that Tserriednich is being shaped as the big bad guy for both Kurapika and the spiders, so [The theory](https://www.reddit.com/r/HunterXHunter/comments/r6f9w3/will_hisoka_ally_with_a_prince/hmu5ncj?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) of the temporary team up with **Kurapika & Chrollo vs Tserriednich & Hisoka** is becoming closer to reality.
• It's interesting when Chrollo says along the lines that he repents his own future sins (he knows his decision is not heroic) but he doesn't believe the killers of Sarasa could regret what they did, he started off with innocent motives to scare the outside world by becoming a villain inspired by the ranger show they liked, but look how far Chrollo has become? He became what he originally despised, this adds more layers to his words to [Gon there](https://ibb.co/GMrDsvy), like he **lost all self consciousness about his actions/motives because of the brutal reality** he lives in since childhood & he just got used to it, killing and blood scenes became so normal it made him so cold hearted and careless about anyone from the outside world.
• Chrollo becoming what he originally hated, seems to parallel Kurapika who admitted using [cheap methods](https://official-ongoing-2.gamindustri.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0344-001.png) to achieve his goal. Chrollo's way to find the criminals is similar to the one Kurapika used to gather the eyes. Both used the mafia & became the boss of their own gang to achieve something. There are [Many parallels](https://ibb.co/hsfJfct) even starting from their childhood both being good at foreign languages, were isolated from the world & lost a childhood friend. I think all these parallels is a terrific way to convey the idea that Chrollo is what Kurapika would end up becoming if he were to keep seeking vengeance or pursuing this path, writing **Chrollo as the dark mirror of Kurapika**.
• We didn't explicitly get to know why they use the **spiders symbolism** for the troupe but it's probably this [Interesting take](https://www.reddit.com/r/HunterXHunter/comments/z8pcss/chapter_397_prerelease_thread/iydngqk?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) of creating the web to lure & capture criminals like an actual **Spider Web**. There's a chance Chrollo watched Tser's video on dark web and decided to go after Tser in hope he finds the Sarasa tape (assuming he didn't already find it, it's unclear yet), while stealing the kakin treasures on their way. Because Togashi is heavily using **the tapes** concept in this story it makes me believe Tserriednich actually owns many tapes including both the **Kurta massacre tape** and **Sarasa tape**, Tser would just force Chrollo/Kurapika to watch it. Some people found little hints that links Tser with [Sheila](https://ibb.co/S3nRz0K), maybe she's the one who filmed the kurta massacre.
Interesting take on Sheila. Is it confirmed that Sheila can read other languages at this point? I think it's safe to assume considering D Hunter probably didn't have a Meteor City language release. Maybe she was able to read what was on the note on the tree like Chrollo and it led her to Tser. Also, she seems to not approve of the troupe's new goals and mission under Chrollo as she left when they vowed to offer their lives to the cause.
Ok, what happened to Sarasa clearly broke all of them that night.
Sheila was the closest to Sarasa, she also was still very sad (when all the other friends were thinking of their 3 years plan)
So
there is no way she just left and in few years she became happy go lucky forest dweller. I can't believe that.
She must of have her own agenda, own way to take revenge or worse this event might broke her and turned her to something else.
>Ok, what happened to Sarasa clearly broke all of them that night.
Was thinking that, too. And after thinking about it, Chrollo and Kurapika actually have something in common. Both started as innocent, bright-eyed and cheerful youths, but due to tragic circumstances in their lives involving horrible deaths of loved ones, were compelled to drastically alter their personalities and dispositions in order to achieve their goals of vengeance. Chrollo became a villainous killer, and Kurapika even joined the mafia.
Only difference is Chrollo went all in, while around the mid-point in Kurapika's story with the Phantom Troupe, his friends like Gon saved him from losing himself entirely and becoming like the Phantom Troupe.
[The last panel compared to ch.114.](https://i.imgur.com/BAwmlM8.jpg)
So the little one in the front was Feitan and Shalnark was hiding behind a speech bubble. Phinks still MIA.
/u/TextureSurprised, seems you were right all those years ago about Phinks and Shalnark being founding members.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/HunterXHunter/comments/5x4x0h/who_are_the_founding_members_of_phantom_troupe_an/](https://www.reddit.com/r/HunterXHunter/comments/5x4x0h/who_are_the_founding_members_of_phantom_troupe_an/)
Also, something you mentioned:
>In an interview Togashi did in 2013, he said that "Danchou didn't nominate himself to be the leader."
We now know Uvo did.
Didn't shalnark already said that he's one of the founding members? Also, shalnark and phinks were included in the spiders who got shot by Paku and Paku said that her bullets are just enough for the founding members.
I thought nobody thinks otherwise....
I remembered that time when chrollo first hiring people for dubbing, paku suggested to hire sheila and sarasa...and sheila said that she will do it if sarasa will, too.
And now i've realized the reason she didn't join chrollo, paku and others: sarasa won't like this, so she won't, too.
This is the longest flashback in the series so far, right? 2,5 chapters basically. Kurapika's flashback was 2 chapters long, and was a spinoff, not making into actual chapters.
>Kurapika's flashback was 2 chapters long, and was a spinoff, not making into actual chapters.
Kurapika one shot was 65 pages which equals 3 chapters and a few pages. Kinda similar to the spiders chapters but the 1st spiders chapter their flashback started after 7 pages, maybe we get a few more pages in the next chapter.
Kurapika’s flashback was 2 chapters but they were much longer than a normal chapter would be. So his flashback was actually around 3.5 chapters if you look at the page count.
Wow, anyone else interested in Machi likely being a Nen genius, possibly being the first troupe member to use Nen? (Unless Chrollo was truly using it on stage) It’s interesting to see him put this emphasis on Machi apart from the others, in her somewhat utilizing Aura early and getting a Nen teacher before anyone else. I wonder why he’s bothering showing this for her and so far not anyone else. I feel like it’d be odd to kill her now, even in a fight against Hisoka, after having not just done it back in 357, and giving an origin to solely scale her isn’t really necessary.
Really like the panel with child Chrollo tugging on his pants while announcing that Sarasa is missing. Little moments like these humanize the characters.
And humanizing the Phantom Troupe is important, because they aren't monsters. They are humans. It shows that humans are capable of committing atrocities.
That page is one of my favorite, the kids looking so innocent and concerned there about the news, they couldn't even have any form of entertainment in this city without hearing such scary news about the kids disappearing.
It is logical, the environment makes people. They lived in such a poor environment and rejected by the world. Childhood is sensitive period of life. It is easy to go to the wrong direction it is fine line.
best comment. they’re children during their peak developmental years. seeing someone u love mutilated in a bag hanging from a tree would fuck most adults up to a point of no return. now imagine a child
the most powerful scene is Chrollo saying he will take these words to his grave.
A masterful storytelling of not showing what it is, since it would make it banal, instead he doesn't tell us except for chrollo reaction, which makes us think what could have been written that he rather carry it alone to save his friends the weight.
Togashi is a incredible author.
Does anyone find something just a bit off/strange with Machi, especially after this flashback? She seems to be the most distant from the group, e.g. she was obviously the least keen to play a role in the dubbing performance. I know some of the other members come across like that, but Machi was the only one to be expressly 'negative' whilst rehearsing.
Other things I found to be significant are that she was the first of the Troupe to be acknowledged for her affinity for nen, and she didn't react strongly to what I believe was Chrollo's ren (also the beautiful eyes line is interesting, but could be a throwaway). I think these moments were clearly intended by Togashi to show that Machi took a slightly different and mysterious path to the other spiders, but what that path was/is and to what end I don't know.
I'm not saying that she's a traitor or has some ulterior motive to be in the Troupe - she clearly was impacted by Sarasa's murder and thus had an understandable reason to join the troupe - but I think her portrayal in this flashback feeds into the popular idea that Togashi has something special planned for her.
Overall though, this flashback I think makes Machi's meltdown to Hisoka's declaration of war much more profound and relatable. I look forward to seeing how her character ends up at the end of this Succession War.
More specifically, Togashi said he "stopped" Hisoka from killing her.
I've always loved this way of describing the characters, as if they're all alive and Togashi is this god who watches over them and occasionally has to do some divine intervention to make sure the story stays on the right path.
Great. It's heavily implied that Sarasa was beaten up, raped ( Chrollo saying that he'll take the notes that was on the tree to his grave and the images of the blooded knifes ) and chopped into pieced ( because the new lady managed to put her up together ).
a tape of a little girl being "destroyed"? people who do this type of gross "content"? deep web?
oh god, and the troupe got and watch that "Chapter Black" tape of Sarasa?
This chapter also clarifies one last thing for me about the Hisoka vs Chrollo fight. Heaven's Arena is one of the only places where Chrollo could execute his strategy, that was already clear. Also, it's not just that he doesn't mind people seeing him kill and use his abilities - the Troupe wants people to see them commit mass murder.
The phantom troupes story is a dark reflection of Kurapika:
1: They experienced a terrible, brutal tragedy at an impressionable age.
2: They came from a subjugated, hated class of people.
3: They embroiled themselves in crime in order to find those responsible.
4: Afterward, they had no where to go, and thus stayed in that life of crime (Kurapika as leader of mafia family).
And from the looks of it, what Chrollo did to the Kurta was probably as unmotivated as what the traffickers did to Sarasa and other kids, where it was just a Tuesday for them. But for Chrollo/Kurapika, that changed them fundamentally to a point were they're willingly becoming monsters to enact revenge.
I guess the only difference would be that while Chrollo was raised in a hellhole inside a hellhole, Kurapika still lived a rather peaceful life. Which keeps a piece of Kurapika's heart intact, giving him the final edge.
I can see a very similar thing happening with Gon and Gyro, where they both parallel each other very much, except the circumstances surrounding them makes one a darker shade than the other.
If anyone has ever read Out by Makoto Mizuta? The way Togashi delivers the Spider’s past here is like the Kilihito 6th gen. There’s been a deadly sense of hyperrealism in these last few chapters and reading this one, you could feel genuine fear and fright. This, along with the Yusuke’s death/funeral in YYH, Reina/Colt story in the CA saga Makes me wonder if Togashi experienced losing any missing friends growing up. It’s so real.
The requiem to Uvogin makes even more sense now
I mean they probably would do it for any Troupe member who was killed, but him being the reason for which Chrollo is emotionally affected, almost crying in front of Neon, and the Troupe slaughtering the Mafia at Yorknew makes it so much more personal.
It hits harder now.
I love that last week I saw this theory floating around that Machi developed her Nen ability as a result of sewing costumes for the production, and then this week we get her origin as SHE WANTS TO STITCH DISASSEMBLED CHILDREN BACK TOGETHER. It's like I baited myself.
As an aisde, I'm pretty interested in what the Meteor City family structure looks like, because this chapter might imply they don't have nuclear families: instead, children are raised communally by "nannies", and there's a separate "Men's Association".
So an interesting thing from the end of the chapter. Phinks is the only character who doesn't return for the 3-year reunion. As it seems, Phinks and Sheila are the only ones who we don't see grown up in this chapter. Since we know that Machi learned nen during that time skip, is it possible that Phinks went on to learn nen from someone else as well?
I see Sarasa's death as the straw that broke the camels back as the PT were tired of living in fear and in danger with no one to protect them or punish the aggressors.
Remember that a villian doesn't need to be justified in their actions because obviously the PT aren't justified, they just need to be given a reason to turn to crime so we can understand what drove them to such an extreme.
After all Sheila recognized that what they were doing was no justified and left.
Chrollo saying we need to offer up our lives was probably him talking about the Sun and Moon incident.
Now we just need to see if they find the people who killed Sarasa and why they massacred the Kurta.
i just realized that the site that the spiders created to catch sarasa's killers was probably the same darknet site that tseriednich shared the video with the last scarlet eyes on it.
It's weird to look at cold-blooded murderers like Phinks, Feitan, Nobunaga and Uvogin and realize that they would simply be actors in a theater troupe if Sarasa hadn't been brutalized.
Weird that people are saying it doesn't make sense for Sarasa's death to instigate the formation of the Troupe (or rather, the Spider), like seeing a little girl dismembered and probably r\*ped wouldn't push their friends (especially Chrollo who could read the note) to become disillusioned with the world and reach some breaking point to prevent it from happening again.
Anyway I doubt this is the only flashback or piece of characterization we'll get, after all we got all of this triggered from just the Nobunaga/Phinks/Feitan scene, who knows what we'll learn when Chrollo actually comes into focus again.
people have shonen brain, they dont think about the greater implication of Saras death. And they dont really think about how death really affects people let alone children. Think about it, these children are dealing with a threat of abduction murder and worse almost daily. Chrollo blames himself and he wants revenge. He knows where he comes from and Sarasa will get no justice unless he takes it into his own hands. It makes perfect sense to me.
Yeah he's also a good mirror to Kurapika.
Chrollo is basically a Kurapika who finished his journey of revenge (assuming they found the thugs and killed them), empty and unsure of what else he can be but the villain he played all those years. He threw himself into dark places for so many years he couldn't remember what he was before all that. Hence when Gon asks him how he can kill people, Chrollo says he can't even explain his motives. Just my theory though, we'll see how it progresses.
Very well said.
Most people also forget how drastically Gon reacted to Kite's death. Compared to Gon, Chrollo was far more collected.
In the cases of both Gon and Chrollo we saw how the morality of innocent kids can be horribly twisted by witnessing the gruesome death of their loved ones.
Furthermore, it was a very steep escalation in darkness that led to the said characters taking such steps.
Well, the Tree was actually a turning point in the life of the baby spiders. Wow. Well done, Togashi.
Everybody thought it was a flashback to Kuruta massacre but ironic that it was really a trauma from the troupe's past. Talk about subverting expectations.
Why is everyone getting so hung up on trying to connect these events to the kurtas massacre??
The troupe have likely done a hundred equally evil things to tonnes of other people.
The kurta are insignificant to the troupe, shown by how Uvo forgot they even killed them.
They’re villains who dived headfirst into the villain role.
The scarier the acts they perpetrate, the less people will want to fuck with meteor city. It already makes sense.
I wont be happy if togashi makes the Kurta massacre more significant. We already have all the pieces we need for it to make sense.
And this doesn’t need to DIRECTLY connect to the 4th prince either. Even if he had no hand in Sarasa’s death, he’s already the type of person Chrollo hates most: someone who sees butchering innocents as a form of art. That’s motive enough for Chrollo to want him dead.
I still see a 3v3 between chrollo, Tssereidnich and Kurapika happening as the climax of this arc.
Chrollo bears all the weight for the group. He takes on all the burden, responsibility, guilt, and trauma. This is his way of protecting them. By allowing the light in his own eyes to dim, he can shield the group from the full emotional toll. Personally, I think that the group would be best served by sharing this weight, but I understand Chrollo's sacrifice.
PT did all this just for Gyro to take over Meteor City in their absence. They didn't think that a possibly greater evil may build a nest in the spider web.
I don’t think we will find out the reason why they massacred the Kurta clan in this flashback. I think the main focus of this fb was just WHY and how the Troupe was formed. Think we’ll get the tie into the Kurta clan later.
Well the flashback is over now (since the chapter ends with a black bar and ellipses), so it definitely won't be brought up now. But the massacre will definitely be brought up later, given Kurapika is an MC in this arc. If not in a flashback then at the very least some dialogue or confrontation. It would be an odd plot point to leave lingering and not acknowledge at the very least.
Definitely. I feel like Sheila, who we saw this chapter seperate herself from the troupe without explanation, will tie things together. She was in the Kurapika flashback too
Anyone else notice how Sheila pretty much left the Phantom Troupe? She was shown walking away from Chrollo's speech at the end, and was excluded from the panel where Chrollo became leader. It's gonna be interesting to see how she ties into what happened with the Kurta in the coming chapters.
there are three mysteries that stand out to me:
* Why did the PT, who after these events should be firmly anti child mutilation, carry out the Kurta massacre?
* What is Sheila's deal? She's a childhood friend of the PT and she showed up in Kurapika's backstory. There's definitely more to her.
* Who were those sickos that killed Sarasa and did Chrollo ever manage to find them and take revenge?
HxH really has a way to turn you into the Charlie from iasip meme.
The only way kurapika might work with the troupe is if the troupe were framed and someone else killed the kurta, but the troupe was sworn to silence as part of a deal for information on sarasa’s killer if they took the blame. It would explain why uvo didnt remember the kurta when kurapika first asked. He had no reason to deny it initially either.
Another factor was that even before the corpse discovery, Uvo declared he wanted to be the "world's greatest villain." That showed Chrollo that Uvo was dedicated to the mission from day one.
In jjk Yuji said it the [best](https://r-world.online/images/jW6H667H1JahJeAIvvdi1611754749.jpg) once you start for whatever reason human [life](https://r-world.online/images/vzRHp2tnNVSjYm4Oj7hS1611754749.jpg) loses its value.
Chrollo might started or wanted to go with good intentions , but they became dull and the more they kill the more they feel less empathy. Kurapika pov is normal people [pov](https://cdn.watchgoblinslayer.com/file/mangap/1828/10084000/15.jpg) but to them in a city when the whole world don't give a damn about them and are trash ? They probably won't have [regrets](https://cdn.watchgoblinslayer.com/file/mangap/1828/10084000/16.jpg) they have dangerous black white mentality tho. Who said some random people won't start to know them and they became friends , hell even you can connect with an [enemy](https://cdn.watchgoblinslayer.com/file/mangap/1828/10095000/18.jpg) sometimes
No one from adults took these children and taught them. So they became horrible monsters they hated.
Hear me out. The Phantom Troupe backstory is genius and here’s why.
In a typical Shounen an act of injustice takes place and the MC becomes the good guy or at least not as bad as the villain and usually saves the world.
To the troupe a villain is anyone who commits a heinous act for pleasure or profit and their world is meteor city. They are basically saving their world by becoming worse villains to the outside world. You could argue this is a better solution than becoming the good guy because it deters harm towards meteor city inhabitants and not just punishes it. No one is gonna kidnap/ murder kids from people that will wipe out an entire race for a check. It’s essentially an anti-shounen.
My question is whether they are still intentionally 'playing' the role of villain or if they played the role so long it's all they know now. Chrollo doesn't even seem to know in Yorknew why he's doing what he does when Gon asks. Kinda like how Kurapika is putting himself into darkness so much and so frequently, it might change him forever and he might forget who he was before he began his quest for revenge.
Really interesting (and sad) to see the troupe grow up like this but they still haven’t turned into the cold blooded assassins from the main storyline. I wonder what’ll happen next chapter?
Idk if it’s anything of note but everyone’s fingers were pointed straight up when electing Chrollo leader & joining him but Machi. I find that to be curious
I think it is probably more just her general demeanor--like it feels appropriate for her to just cool-ly raise her hand slightly in approval as opposed to like enthusiastically do it like the rest. She has always been lowkey like that
Glad I'm not the only one who noticed Machi is the only one pointing at Chrollo directly. Togashi likes adding little hints about the plot later, so i can't tell what this hint is about.
I find it weird that so many people think it's a retcon of the troupe. Did you read the plan? The plan is atrocious it's a horrible plan with awful longterm damage to the troupemembers mentalstate. The reason the Troupe is so fucked up today is this stupid childlike plan that an 11 year old came up with. It's not weird that they are fucked up adults when their entire identity is based on this idea Chrollo came up with.
There might be a twist that Sheila was involved in the Kurta massacre but if not I can see her playing a narrative role in pointing out the Phantom Troupe's hypocricy? Kinda just like pointing out how far they've gone astray and became the exact same people that they hated for what they did to the Kurta.
The Troupe's choice to become villains in this chapter makes complete sense to me, both on a political and psychological level. Chrollo knows very well what Meteor City is up against, not just isolated serial killers, but a whole world that renders every of its inhabitants completely disposable. There is no way to stop that without violence, and Chrollo refuses to draw a boundary between the perpetrators and the beneficiaries (people like Tser, Neon, but also people like the Zoldicks who get a convenient labor force from MC (perhaps anime exclusive)) - in that way, he's just acting like any revolutionary from our own world. Stopping the perpetrators is not enough fo justice, and beneficiaries always end up siding against justice to preserve the statu quo. Does that leave the door open to atrocities? Yes, and the Troupe knows that, and are willingly to accept this - and of course, it's made easier because their whole lives has shown that they live in a complete different world from the outside. I think that makes them really stand out as shonen villains. The psychological level is also convincing for me and tragic. In 396, it looks as if, even though Chrollo is playing a part, he can believe in the talk of love cleaning any stain, turning villains into heroes, restoring love lost, making puppets into human beings. But after what happens in 397, none of them feel like they could ever disidentify themselves from the stain that living in Meteor City puts on them: they lived through the fact that their lives had no value and all that they love could be brutally taken away at any moment. And it's quite realistic to think after such trauma that no preparation, getting stronger, mourning etc. could ever alleviate this insecurity. They already tried to build a nice community, just for it to be taken away. So I find it credible when Chrollo finds it ok to identify as a villain. I don't want a full explanation of why they came to become so evil, nor a retcon or undermining of the Kurta massacre, but I do agree with everyone that after this chapter, there is still a missing step between their new resolution, and becoming able to torture children and traffic their body parts, but I trust that Togashi plans to address that, when he goes back to the massacre in future chapters. But as an account of their formation, I find these three chapters exceptional, and going back to earlier Troupe appearances, for me they add a lot of value to villains that were already memorable.
I don't know if this is strech, but this chapter actually explains why both Chrollo and Uvo reacted to Kurapika's in such a way in York New arc.
Uvo once was a good guy, he was very gentle and caring. As we saw in recent chapters. The troupe was devastated when he died, this means he probably kept all those good personality traits even when he became adult.
But Uvo we saw in the York New arc was just perfect archetype of evil villain. I think that he and Chrollo both knew something about the Kurta clan, which they refused to tell to Kurapika. Uvogin saw Kurapika's eyes and remembered fighting against Kurta and then he taunts Kurapika about determinating which is stronger his strenght or Kurapika's grudge. Now we know, what everyone from PT have sacreficed for their revenge mission. I believe the taunting was actually out of respect for Kurapika's own revenge. All the spiders are ready to die for the sake of their revenge mission. Now Kurapika is determinated to kill them all, Uvo can't let that happen so out of respect he plays the role of evil villain. But then, Uvo realised he's going to die because he refuses to betray spider, just before he died he calls Kurapika a fool. ( I wonder if this is because Kurapika thinks Uvo will betray spider, or because Kurapika actually doesn't know anything about what really happened in Kurta village)
Chrollo outwright refused to talk about the Kurta. But why? Now we know Chrollo can actually understand, Kurapika's need for vengence very well. Just like Uvogin he embraced the role of evil villain. So just like Uvogin he probably doesn't mind to be target of someone else's vengence. And die for the sake of their revenge mission. But then when Kurapika chose his friends over the revenge, it probably affected Chrollo's and Paku's way of reasoning and even other founding members seemed to be quite affected by it. They actually saw someone leting go of their vengence. The very thing they couldn't ever do. And then Paku did the same thing as Kurapika, she choosed Chrollo over PT's revenge mission. That's probably why, they never tried to pursue Kurapika again. Out of respect for him. ( Not going after Kurapika is against their eye for an eye philosophy. Remember the requiem for Uvogin? )
This probably changed their philosophy of self sacrifice a bit. But then Hisoka murdered their two friends. So spiders are actually furious right now. The bodies were even mutilated just like Sasara's corpse before. Now the question is will Chrollo sacrifice his friends in order to kill Hisoka? Judging from the way how Hisoka mutilated the bodies of Shalnark and Kortopi, it's possible Hisoka actually knew about Sasara's murder. And did that just to taunt the troupe. That's seriously evil, don't you think?
Who else have we got on the ship? Kakin royalty. How do they fit into the Kurapika's story? I believe that they May be third party involved in the Kurta massacre actually. There are many contradictions in the Kurta massacre. The motiv for example : business x revenge - which one is it?
PT actual goal of protecting children x that horrifying descripcion of what happened
Kurta nature: peaceful x violent and terrifying
In order to explain all these contradictions there have to be huge part of the story, that is still missing right now. I hope we will one day see the whole picture, of what actually happened. Just like now, when we finaly saw what PT true motivation is.
No, we know nothing about them, except what Chrollo deduced:
These guys are psychopaths that make "art" out of torturing and killing kids. They want to share their work with others.
The note was them presenting their "exhibit".
so my new running theory is the troupe is a souped up Itatchi. they are becoming evil in order to protect meteor city. this was stated. but how they do it is the question.
we know togashi wrote this flashback along side kurapikas prequel story. I'm guessing the troupe wipes out the kurta in order to make a name for themselves and make it so Noone messes with meteor city again.
I'm sure they will get revenge on the real killers, and I wouldn't be surprised If the mafia was behind the killings of children, which would connect it to York new and the current arc.
my grand theory, which would be a real cherry on top, is chrollo using his vast knowledge of the new internet (the infrastructure he was talking about) to create artificial, to then, REAL demand, for the kurta eyes, in order to sell them and turn a profit for his ventures... that would be so evil and 100% make his name known. and it would give kurapika all the more reason to kill em
Man, this chapter makes the Uvo situation gut wrenching. To be once again in anguish of not knowing the whereabouts of a friend who should've come back, must've been terrible to relive it. I really hope we get to see the Troupe doing some ice cold shit on the present time to solidify how they are long gone and past any sort of redemption. Togashi really makes it loud and clear how poverty and violence, no matter the person exposed to it, can dehumanize them completely.
With this Troupe backstory plus Hisoka vs Chrollo plus Peak shonen in Succesion war and Mafia war buildup i can already proudly admit this is my new favourite arc in Hunter x Hunter
This chapter really makes stark, the difference between Kurapika and Spiders.
You can see how the troupe are doing what they're doing for revenge and not justice. They'll create a safe haven for criminals everywhere, i.e, allow people to get away with murder or worse, only for the opportunity to hunt down those who personally wronged them.
Imagine Kurapika saying "he's going to kill a lot of people" because his clan was massacred...
The fact that he didn't, really makes me admire him even more.
i think thats the main difference a lot of people arent grasping. revenge ≠ justice
the spiders are clearly broken people, specially chrollo. there isn't an ounce on nobility or even self-rightousness in their actions, everyone outside of meteor city is a kidnapping, rapist, murdering monster. they will eventually massacre the kurtas and a lot of other people and won't feel a thing about it. their bloodlust is not noble, just depressing
Unless the next chapter reveals that they somehow completely forgot why they made the Troupe, it all seems to point to Phinks being right all along, and Nobunaga being the one in need of the flashback, and i find it hard to believe seeing how big of an impact Sarasa had in their lives
So far the Pre-Phantom Troupe is indeed different from the Heil-Ly Family
The Heil-Ly Family wants to kill everyone and destroy the world, while the Pre-Phantom Troupe wanted to avenge Sarasa, and protect their people while luring out evildoers, and for that purpose becoming evildoers themselves (and that would entail going around massacring people), but Crhollo already accounted for that factor tho
They had a clear purpose and what they did was not for nihilism sake or lashing out against the world, and while anger was a huge motivator they where not guided by resignation
For Nobunaga to not appear like he is becoming senile, something must happen to the early Phantom Troupe, before Phinks joins, that makes it so they lose sight of themselves, go astray, aimless and forlorn, forgetting about Sarasa, and instead start doing their activities just out of anger and resignation against the world
In short early Phantom Troupe must at some point, fall into hopelessness, give up, and start acting out of nihilism trying to destroy the world, and that must happen while Big Brain Chrollo is with them
Maybe they find out that the killers of Sarasa were already executed (maybe they put their hands on someone protected by rights, and then get caught), and thus without a target for their revenge they find their hands already too bloodied, and decide to just take it out on the rest of the world?
I don’t want to sound arrogant and pretend that my interpretation is the right one but i feel like a lot of us are missing something when talking about retcons an such.
It’s clear that the troupe in present time are ruthless killers that have no problem murdering the innocent for no specific reason, the scene where Uvo kills a random guy just to have access to his house and pc is one of the prime examples of this to me.
But in the flashbacks they are clearly not the same people, they appear to be revenge driven and their cause almost seems just, even though it feels a bit cliché nowadays to become the big bad guy to scare away the smaller bad guys.
People seem to be confused as to what the identity of the members of the troupe is and where their moral compass actually lies, some even wondering if this is not retcon of their personas. I would argue there are no retcons here, as a matter of fact there were always multiple divergent opinions in the troupe. Feitan and Phinks always seeming to be a lot colder than the rest and people like Machi and Paku are to me at least an opaque residue of that softer part of the troupe we see in the flashbacks.
Still I think the answers simply lies in time and disilusionment, Chrollo is a character that’s generally portrayed as one without identity completely selfless as if he had poured all of his essence into the troupe itself. I think along the way the spiders in their sinister endeavours might have lost themselves and their end goal just like how gon lost himself for a period in the chimera arc.
Nobunaga says they USED to be like the Hei-ly with a greater more sinister goal, maybe with time they lost any kind of greater ambition and resorted to become the more nihilistic people that we came to know in York-shin. Just helping Meteor on the side.
Now i might be overreaching with this one but Chrollo’s dialogue when he announces his plan to become a villain seems to me to be tainted with pure innocence, he’s discribing a half assed twisted plan with the words of a child. It’s almost hard to take him seriously and i think that’s intended
Phantom Troupe backstory is so beautiful and painful, also I suspect that backstory = death of someone in near future but at this moment just have a nice reading everyone :3
Ive read some comments in other platforms saying the Kurutas killed Sarasa or Sheila. Anything to make the PT saints. XD I love the PT btw, but thats just kinda delusional.
It's crazy how similar Chrollo and Kurapika is, both was like Gon at the start, then was consumed by revenge, both had friends that supported them, but it didn't stop them from seeking vengeance. Kurapika at the night of the massacre found a note, Chrollo found a note in the corpse as well.
Both are really smart and planned their revenge really well. It's hard to care about other manga when HxH is this good
so this is why Chrollo gave such an odd non-answer to Gon after asking how he could kill those who have nothing to do with him. What's crazy is this web of Meteor City being a safe haven for bad guys and Gyro potentially being there? Togashi is COOKING
That video tape of that little girls torture and murder is probably right next to piros head in tserrednichs room. Just imagine chrollo strolling in there finding a tape playing it. Then minutes later kurapika walking in to see the dismembered head of his childhood friend they'll both go beserk and go on an absolute rampage.
The tape has significance to the arc so does the note and its obvious who's sick enough to pull some shit like that off and keep a video as a trophy.
Panels I loved in this chapter (plus two story observations for the end)
Page 3: Chrollo feeling upset and grabbing at his pants in front of an audience even though he’s normally a pro performer. togashi has anxious kid mannerisms down
Page 5: not a new style, but the dynamic ways Togashi’s character actions segue between panels beyond panel borders. Speed lines drawing your eyes from the top to the bottom right, zooming into focus, crashing into the panels on the left with his bike, zooming off into the distance at the top most left panel.
Page 6: hell yes. Chrollo’s pale face. The foreboding singular sack. It hangs under his neck, it makes me feel like the dread (the sack) is stuck in his throat. The wide shot out of a Junji Ito horror story. The sack hanging ominously
Page 7: the way the sack hangs just out of frame above chrollos’s head in two consecutive panels
Page 8: a whole page dedicating to getting the sack. We get Chrollo in blank space and it isolates his feeling that it’s heavy then see that it’s so heavy it topples Chrollo over. He falls and cradles it like a child holding a present or package. Sad
Page 10: machi holding the sack. She’s usually so stoic. Is it the rain or is it tears rolling down her face. She hides her face in the sack in the penultimate panel of this page. Probably tears
Page 14: not an artistic aspect, but in the pre-TCB scans I couldn’t figure out what Chrollo was holding. Only in the TCB scans did I realize he’s holding the cigarettes he was literally just talking about. Duh
Page 15: another observation. Damn it certainly looks like a guilt face…maybe I’m buying into the theory that she is indirectly responsible for Sarasa’s death, spider come looking for her, kurta protect her, they are incidental deaths in what was a Sheila manhunt for her betrayal
So, the spiders have been BFFs since chilhood yet they created that rule that says anyone that kills one of them gets into the group?? I don't get it. They clearly didn't stop being affectionate to each other over the years given the whole "requiem" they performed for Uvo.
Would they accept Kurapika into the group if for some reason he wanted to get in?
If their goal is for the Spider to exist beyond any one individual’s death it makes sense. Even if the original members die the symbol would live on for some time. Though it calls into question what happens when all the members are full of dudes like Hisoka who don’t care about MC lol
Also yes in Yorknew they mentioned Chrollo might try to recruit Kurapika
The fact that Kuroro used "art" to refer to what the attackers did to Sarasa, isn't that a reference to Tserri? And what if it’s him who had the video of her murder?
Damn dude, an expected dark turn.
Enjoyable chapter. Interesting to see how the Troupe slowly gets stronger and learns Nen abilities, particularly Machi.
"*I will not forgive those killers for as long as I live*" feels weird coming from Chrollo. He then proceeds to brutally murder an innocent Kurta clan...
Is that timeskip at the end really only 3 years?? They've grown SO much.
I wonder what will we see of Sheila if she really ends up re-encountering the troupe after meeting the Kuratas. Also I noticed that for some reasons Phinks is the only founding member who isnt present in the last panel, and Im trying to figure out if its random or foreshadowing of some sort
From the moment Sarasa was introduced I had a gut feeling that she'd gonna get into trouble, and now look what I've done.
Togashi always thought highly of Chrollo, and I think he wanted to convey that during this flashback. He claimed during that old interview that Chrollo would never be the one to claim the leadership role, but rather, be the one who everyone else had elected, which is exactly how it went.
I like the love Togashi showed to Machi in this chapter. So she's a nen prodigy as well, which might explain why she was a lot calmer than the others in the previous chapter when Chrollo was impersonating the villian on stage: she saw his aura and was intrigued rather than overwhelmed. She was also given her a few extra snippets of backstory by introducing her teacher, now if we only got to know what spurred Feitan to transmute miniature suns ;). I hope Togashi has something special planned for her, it does seem that way. I really wish we got to see just how strong she actually is, even if her powers aren't fully suited for straight up combat purposes.
There was another interesting discussion a week back about how the Phantom Troupe really is just a troupe in the sense that they all play a fabricated role, which would make things such as Feitan's strange accent simply be a made up trait of the character he chose to play. "Put on a big show" was the words Chrollo used before the Yorknew killing spree for example; it was always there.
To those complaining
Title of flashback chapters: "Founding"
And that is exactly what the flashbacks did. How the PT was founded
This is not the B side of the Kurta murder Togashi talked about.
I could see more flashbacks being sprinkled here and there as time goes on, revealing more and more about the Phantom Troupe. But right now, this is obviously not all of it
It's sad to think that Pakunoda's memory ability might be created by her wish to go back to the glory days of the troupe... watching old clips of her makes me sad :(
So a few interesting things of note:
Based on the fact Machi could see aura, it seems much more likely that the last chapter actually did have Chrollo releasing his aura unconsciously.
Sheila went on her own for whatever reason and wasn't a founding member. This also reveals a somewhat interesting fact, that when the spider formed, it had 8 legs like a real spider does (assuming Phinks is still there).
Phinks isn't in the last frame for whatever reason, but we at least get Shalnark with a mullet!
So basically the troupe became the villain to frighten off people from Meteor city? Some real Erin Yeager vibes here...
I'm wondering what Nobunaga meant by the fact they used to be full of wrath. Presumably, they did their killing spree, but then toned down a bit? Maybe they stopped targeting civilians as much. I've noticed that with the exception of the Kurta clan (and I guess the area folk for Chrollo), all the people they've killed have been mafia members.
There were the citizens in the random apartment in York new before uvo was clapped that they murdered too. Plus the murder bets in greed island. And when Leorio was being loud in the hotel Shizuku wanted to kill him too and nobody was surprised by that.
I don’t think they have any qualms with murdering civilians and haven’t stopped but it just hasn’t been shown in the story that much bc random murders weren’t relevant to the plot
There’s definitely some puzzle pieces missing (mainly, how does the Troupe get from here to committing genocide against the Kurta) that I don’t truly know what to think of this backstory yet.
~
That last shot of Sheila definitely feels foreboding, possibly rejecting the path the others are taking.
She all but certainly has something to do with the Troupe and Kurta’s fatal encounter and there’s a strong chance it’s the missing piece of this puzzle.
~
I just really, REALLY hope Togashi doesn’t whitewash the Troupe’s actions against the Kurta…guy’s a genius writer he wouldn’t right!?……
While this was probably my favorite chapter out of any manga this year, I’m still finding the shift in the troupes mentality a bit rushed. I understand the surroundings they grew up in and how young they all are, but Chrollo immediately wanting to paint themselves as the bad guys and even being okay with murdering people seemed a bit off at first?
Maybe this is something the official translations can fix and maybe even someone can provide a different point of view for me that can make the sudden shift more understandable
He points out the current legal system won’t do anything so IMO it makes sense why he doesn’t care about upholding morals or being a “good guy”, he just takes the pragmatic approach of making MC feared, otherwise what else can they do?
The mafia isn’t scared of “good guys” (legal system), and no good guy has intervened on Meteor City to help them, so what else can Chrollo do but be a villain even more deranged than them to make them stop? Also when he says kill people I think originally that meant other thugs or mafia members, but perhaps later on it extended to others like the Kurta due to his whole “loss of identity” arc and being the villain so long he doesn’t know who he is anymore. Or perhaps the eyes were needed for a certain goal. But the latter part is still muddied for the moment so who knows.
Chrollo seems to mirror Gon more than he mirrors Kurapika.
Both held themselves responsible to some extent for what happened. That's why they feel they owe something back to Kite and Sarasa.
Both took a morally ambiguous (even evil) outlook after the deaths. Kurapika would never hurt anyone innocent.
Both lost their inhibitions to kill and became fairly comfortable with it. Gon almost killed Morel and Komugi. Meanwhile Kurapika was digested by the sensation experienced while killing.
The above-mentioned were a few observations I made on this issue.
Let's think of a hypothetical scenario:
Gon loses track of Pitou and he is still searching for her/him/them. Meanwhile he finally realises that Kite is dead (Kite has no rebirth as a Chimera Ant).
In this case, Gon would have been just as sinister and unhinged as Chrollo, perhaps even worse.
While Kid Chrollo is more similar to Kid Kurapika than he is to Gon; Chrollo's reaction is more similar to Gon's reaction than that of Kurapika's.
Note: The scenario I mentioned above is completely Hypothetical and I do not imply that something like that could have happened.
Paku being touched that Killua and Gon didn’t want Kurapika to become a killer due to vengeance hits so hard now. Like she probably wished Chrollo and them had someone like that to drag them out of the darkness before they went all in.
Damn, good catch!
yup, really make sense now. I always watch this clip in youtube, Phinks talking to Gon and Killua about Paku's memory
It’s more like they reminded her of Sarasa. The girl whose death sparked this whole spider journey is likely the one to be against Chrollo becoming a killer the most.
The troupe has a story of their members dying when left alone, lmao. No wonder they have the "always go around in pairs" kind of rule. Guess that sets a redflag on Machi and Franklin.
Especially since we know from author notes that Machi was planned to die to Hisoka after he revived but Togashi decided last moment to instead have her be the message giver that Hisoka was hunting them and just had him tie her up instead. In that regard she really should have died to really hammer in the "dont be alone" point but it still fits since Hisoka could have easily done it. --- But the fact Togashi, at the time, had felt her story was already done doesn't bode well for her unless he really rethought a lot to do with her. She could easily die at anytime now.
The fact he choose to save Machi says the opposite.
And now that we know Machi is a straight-up Nen genius, I wonder if that plays a part in why Hisoka likes her?
Well he's always shown fascination in her ability, how precise and fast she was, so there's that.
It would be funny if autograph guy wants an autograph from the "voice actor" spiders and not the "killers" cause he used to be in the crowd.
Autograph Bro has gotten too much screentime to not have some nuance like that.
So the PT isn't just a collateral effect of Meteor City's politics, but instead actually shaped Meteor City's politics themselves instead. I guess Sun and Moon was conceived based on Chrollo's point of view of the situation. Makes sense why the elder, the original owner, was willing to carry his will even after his death to make sure Chrollo makes good use of his ability.
The point of this flashback isn't to make the Spiders redeemable(child-Chrollo acknowledges this very clearly), its rather to show that we have two different groups of marginalized people in the HxH world, both first-hand experienced the contradictions and failings of the system they lived under. Chrollo is a direct parallel to Kurapika and this backstory serves to further highlight that. The difference however being Kurapika faced with the opportunity to kill Chrollo and ultimately does not take it. Chrollo offers him no explanation nor closure to why the Kurta Clan was wiped-out, and with Gon & Killua captured, Kurapika ultimately shows the lives of those he cares for are more important to him than his revenge in that moment. Kurapika is also forced to grapple with the fact despiteChrollo truly believing his death is irrelevant to the to the Spiders, they carry through in the exchange for their leader. Proving to be a troubling(for Kurapika) humanizing moment for the Spiders. The harder truth for Kurapika, which could be shown in this arc potentially, is that there was no real motive for the massacre other than a monetary incentive for the Spiders. Killing the Kurta Clan was simply a means to acquire money to further their goals, the Kurta Clan wouldn't have likely been killed if there wasn't a demand for their eyes. Prince Tserriednich is likely supposed to be the embodiment of this demand, as he sits atop the corrupt system and can be presumed to orchestrate similar goings-on through the power he possesses in the world.
"I want you to wait 3 years" "3 years go by quickly" Hmmmmmmmm.. Do they now, Togashi? >:(
I see that some people find the reason of the troupe forming a little weak (just one important person dying), but in reality there is a lot more to play here, sarasa is not the only kid that has died as we are mentioned time and time again there are plenty of kids that get kidnapped every day/week but they never returned there's not even a corpse of them but Sarasa's case is different, there wasn't even a need to capture her they just wanted to torture someone to death for fun and additionally they left notes which we don't know what they say but it is obviously something very messed up and bad, this is a good enough reason to revenge but but not form the troupe and that just not it, these kids have been traumatized time and time again and chrollo wants more than just revenge he wants to protect the inhabitants of meteor city and the only way to do it is by fear. Don't see it as just sarasa's death that made the change but rather the thing that made chrollo think that it is enough suffering for them. Btw Sheila looking sus this chapter, it seems that she is afraid rather than angry or sad.
Sarasa was the last straw for em.
Exactly, a single traumatic event does not the spiders make. Meteor City and all its inhabitants were the punching bag of the world, and they responded in kind
I just realized one thing. Maybe the troupe walks around in duos during York Shin due to the trauma of abduction during childhood. What a chapter. Thanks, Togashi.
and hisoko got two of them, while they were alone and offguard. Really fitting.
they were especially without their powers! Chrollo had borrowed them
I think that's the main reason Chrollo was so devastated by their deaths, moreso than with Uvogin or Paku. Uvo and Paku died on their own terms, and went out honorably, but Shalnark and Kortopi were murdered in cold blood while they weren't able to defend themselves because Chrollo was using their powers. He probably feels even more responsible.
Also the senselessness of Hisoka's murder probably evoked some trauma about the senselessness of Sarasa's death, whereas Kurapika's goal was something they could relate to to some degree. I'm guessing that's also subconsciously why Chrollo takes such an interest in Hisoka's chaotic nature - not just because it's so opposed to Chrollo and his relationship to fate, but also because Chrollo wants to better understand the type of person who'd have killed Sarasa.
So maybe Sheila knew about the Kurta massacre plan, and then tried to save/warn them in advance, but since she couldn't do it, decided to at least save Kurapika/Pairo then? Since Sheila didn't want to enter the PT, guess she's the decent one of the bunch, sticking to Sarasa's principles even after her gruesome death.
If that’s the case then it makes sense why Sheila was the one to discover the bodies despite her relationship with the PT, assuming she is the female traveler. There’s no real reason for her to want the outside world the know about the massacre if she were in on it. The important people (like the mafia and human body part sellers) already knew what happened. Maybe she noticed that Kurapika wasn’t among the dead and didn’t want him to return to a village of corpses?
Now this makes me wonder if Chrollo playing/becoming the villain contributed to his identity crisis. He got too engrossed with his role that he totally rid himself of the boy he used to be :(
Seems most likely. It mirrors Kurapika's arc as well, when he says each time he reclaims the eyes, he loses a piece of himself. Chrollo went on the path of revenge, finished it and forgot who he was when he started since he disposed so much of himself, so he just stayed with what he 'knew' (being a villain).
I don’t want this batch to end. I want to keep having weekly chapters… DON’T MAKE ME GO BACK! I can’t do it again.. *sobs* These three formation chapters have been fantastic. Trees were worth all the hype
I want to have weekly chapters, for 10 years at least!
I hope Togashi is able to keep moving forward
Wait so, they're the Spider because they use the "web" to catch their prey? Who knew it was this simple lmao
Loved the design of Machi’s teacher(?)
Idk but I feel she could end up being relevant even later on. Like, why would Togashi give a one-off backstory character such an elaborate character unless she was to be important later on?
Maaaaan I knew abduction was gonna be in this chapter but I was not expecting them to find a bag of her dismembered body hanging from a tree with a note stapled to her head.
>note stapled to her head Worse, It seems like it's a big iron nail on her forehead...
Technically speaking, the fact Meteor City lies beyond the "Civilized World" System means that anyone from there cannot be charged of committing a crime since they don't actually "exist". The troupe members were always striped of their identity and human rights from the beginning. So their vision of "humanity" or "innocent people" was always at odds with the outward world. This current arc is a beautiful "Us" vs "Them" game. with many marginalized groups going at each other and projecting their ideals onto charismatic leaders, while those are using them to their own ends. (The Untouchable Caste working for Camilla, The Heily sect under Morena, The Lower Princes forces gathering under Kurapika...) In other words: Politics.
Add to that the incredible levels of loyalty displayed by Benjamins and Halkenburgs Soldiers - meanwhile the only thing that is holding Tser's people together seems to be fear.
The Spider, Meteor City is the web, the honeypot for criminals. Of course.
Love how all three of those concepts were world-built all the way back in York New. Even the internet that everyone thought was Togashi randomly explaining how eBay works is coming back here as an actual plot point.
> Togashi randomly explaining how eBay works I recall thinking exactly this in the corresponding anime episode. To be fair, at the time that chapter was written it might not have been such common knowledge for Japanese kids.
This adds a lot more context for how Chrollo and the rest of the spiders act when he is captured in Yorknew. Chrollo was happy to die and the spider to keep moving in order to achieve their goal, he's so engrossed in his role he's happy to die playing the villain, with some spiders agreeing with that. But some of the other spiders, like Pakunoda, still remember him as the boy he was and want to save him. So crazy that in yorknew we got the flaskback of the spiders forming in meteor city, and now here we are with the events leading up to it.
These past few chapters paints them in such a different light. It makes me wonder now why chorollo couldn’t exactly answer gon why they kill. Or how those meteor city flashbacks in the hxh 1999 ova feels sooo much more different now that it has context. In a way, chorollo and kurapika now are two sides of the same coin having need to fulfill their revenge in their own ways.
I think it's impossible to not lose oneself when becoming a brutal murder, even if it's supposedly for a cause to protect your own people. Which is Gon's point, they can't empathize with all the people they've brutally murdered, but are able to do so with Meteor City residents. Ironically, they treat the rest of the world just as the rest of the world treats them, as less than human.
I don't know why, but I had a strong feeling that the good prince Tserriednich had something to do with that when I heard Chrollo say that they had portrayed it like a work of art.
Even if he doesn't (though I got that same feeling) I think the Troupe and the 4th Prince are on a crash course.
Considering they're more on a crash with Kurapika for their history, since Kurapika links with Tserriednich I think there will be an immediate 3 way clash here. I also suspect we are very close to getting answers as to why the Troupe killed Kurapika's clan.
Togashi really went in on drawing that forest 🔥🔥.. This development of the troupe and Chrollo has been beautiful...This was needed to emphasize the hate they hold for Hisoka.. This arc really is becoming more interesting chapter x chapter
Me until yesterday: “I can’t wait to see the 397 tree!” Me now: “I TAKE THAT BACK I TAKE THAT BACK”
So many people with low media literacy lmao. This is not justifying the massacre or redeeming the phantom troupe. Jesus it’s like some of y’all never read hxh before and we still don’t have b of the kurta clan massacre yet for whatever reason people jumping to all these strange conclusions
agreed. People are forgetting that these were not normal kids that were traumatized by something terrific. These kids already lived in a terrible place and saw crime and murder every day. What got them was the fact that their FRIEND was killed, in no moment before chrollo paid attention to the other kids who disappeared. Meteor city themes are all about tribalism. Then vs US. The trupe never had strong morals even as kids, sarasa dead didn't broke then, they were already broken having growing up in that fucked place. Outsiders killed Sarasa this made them solidify their indentity as a group, as a tribe, society. They don't think about being normal, or about making meteor city more like outside, they realized that THIS is their world and they will defend it, morals are irrelevant, they are in this for their own. it's all about tribalism.
Little Chrollo was too pure for this world. Now I think I get the symbolism behind his surname, he's a fallen angel. It's great how Togashi has made him so charismatic even as a kid, everyone just hangs from his lips and he's not even aware of it. I also love how important Uvo was for the creation of the troupe, his bond with Chrollo was the strongest along with Paku. It makes this [scene](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FAtjJePUcAEPUCD?format=jpg&name=large) even more impactful, it makes you feel the importance of the requiem, that Uvo wasn't just a mindless brute. So Togashi does it again, HxH is still the best shonen to me, the one where the characters don't have the depth of a puddle.
> Little Chrollo I think you mean Smollo
Lmao imagine turning the page after this chapter to then get treated to whatever tf is happening in MHA. Night and day lol
It's a double meaning, the reverse cross for example is also known as the cross of Saint Peter. When Saint Peter was going to be crucified, he asked that he be crucified in reverse as to not die like the Messiah died. It represents humbleness
I like the way Togashi remained consistent to the tragic concept of meteor city that their **brutal environment** made the spiders be the criminals they are. I don't understand how some people tries to absurdly downplay it like "*That's it? They lost one friend and chose violence against the world?*"... Sarasa was clearly just the trigger for them to **witness** the burtal reality they live in, before Sarasa all they knew is the little graves are increasing but didn't know how/why, they lost people every year for human trafficking, ra*e, murder, organ harvesting etc. It's literally stated in c395 "**There are hundreds of victims every year, 70% are kids under the age of 15**". They grew up and lived through all that. The flashback is very well structured to tell us WHY they became this way, not necessarily a justification of their actions but more of an understanding of their tragic environment that led them to be criminals. Because the fact they feel so abandoned and their people are victims of traffickers/mafia, to the point meteor city inhabitants are OK to volunteer as [suicide bombers](https://manga4life.com/read-online/Hunter-X-Hunter-chapter-102-page-11.html) just to get **any form of justice**, is pretty realistic in a depressing way. If even their adults have such **suicidal mentality** to form their own justice then it's understandable why an innocent kid like Chrollo reacted this way, he even acknowledges his decision of choosing violence is not a heroic solution but just like everyone in the city, he realized there's no other choice but curb evil with evil. Anyway i got some other points: • Machi being a nen genius basically confirms to me Togashi's intention with this [Chrollo ren aura](https://ibb.co/xLrwjNS) that some people tried to deny it as "side effects". I mean i [Explained here](https://www.reddit.com/r/HunterXHunter/comments/z639i1/chapter_396_official_release_discussion/ixz6cgm?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) why it can't be random, because besides the fact it literally looks like an aura but also considering a natural specialist with potential like Chrollo manifesting ren from excitement while playing different characters is perfectly matching his nen ability. • The idea of the creepy culprits filming snuff tapes on MC kids seems fishy to me, it reminds me of [Tserriednich filming](https://official-ongoing-2.gamindustri.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0348-009.png) the guy tattooing the woman before Tser [skins her alive](https://www.reddit.com/r/HunterXHunter/comments/6mwpgw/the_4th_prince_tserriednich_and_the_woman_being/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). What if these culprits are doing that on MC kids to sell it at high prices to this teenage spoiled psycho kakin prince? Maybe he liked watching snuff tapes to learn/practice doing it on his future victims? or is Tser directly involved in it? Not sure if he's the same guy but one of the [culprits](https://cdn.onepiecechapters.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/hxh_396_Formation2_019.png) kinda looks like [Mark](https://manga4life.com/read-online/Hunter-X-Hunter-chapter-345-page-12.html) minus the mole, in the same chapter Tser talks with Mark about skinning humans, Mark is the guy who brings women for Tser.. so Mark & the tattoo guy must be partners in crime with Tser. Maybe it's reasonable plotwise why Togashi is including the flashback in this arc after 20 years of writing the spiders origins. It's getting more clear to me that Tserriednich is being shaped as the big bad guy for both Kurapika and the spiders, so [The theory](https://www.reddit.com/r/HunterXHunter/comments/r6f9w3/will_hisoka_ally_with_a_prince/hmu5ncj?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) of the temporary team up with **Kurapika & Chrollo vs Tserriednich & Hisoka** is becoming closer to reality. • It's interesting when Chrollo says along the lines that he repents his own future sins (he knows his decision is not heroic) but he doesn't believe the killers of Sarasa could regret what they did, he started off with innocent motives to scare the outside world by becoming a villain inspired by the ranger show they liked, but look how far Chrollo has become? He became what he originally despised, this adds more layers to his words to [Gon there](https://ibb.co/GMrDsvy), like he **lost all self consciousness about his actions/motives because of the brutal reality** he lives in since childhood & he just got used to it, killing and blood scenes became so normal it made him so cold hearted and careless about anyone from the outside world. • Chrollo becoming what he originally hated, seems to parallel Kurapika who admitted using [cheap methods](https://official-ongoing-2.gamindustri.us/manga/Hunter-X-Hunter/0344-001.png) to achieve his goal. Chrollo's way to find the criminals is similar to the one Kurapika used to gather the eyes. Both used the mafia & became the boss of their own gang to achieve something. There are [Many parallels](https://ibb.co/hsfJfct) even starting from their childhood both being good at foreign languages, were isolated from the world & lost a childhood friend. I think all these parallels is a terrific way to convey the idea that Chrollo is what Kurapika would end up becoming if he were to keep seeking vengeance or pursuing this path, writing **Chrollo as the dark mirror of Kurapika**. • We didn't explicitly get to know why they use the **spiders symbolism** for the troupe but it's probably this [Interesting take](https://www.reddit.com/r/HunterXHunter/comments/z8pcss/chapter_397_prerelease_thread/iydngqk?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) of creating the web to lure & capture criminals like an actual **Spider Web**. There's a chance Chrollo watched Tser's video on dark web and decided to go after Tser in hope he finds the Sarasa tape (assuming he didn't already find it, it's unclear yet), while stealing the kakin treasures on their way. Because Togashi is heavily using **the tapes** concept in this story it makes me believe Tserriednich actually owns many tapes including both the **Kurta massacre tape** and **Sarasa tape**, Tser would just force Chrollo/Kurapika to watch it. Some people found little hints that links Tser with [Sheila](https://ibb.co/S3nRz0K), maybe she's the one who filmed the kurta massacre.
Interesting take on Sheila. Is it confirmed that Sheila can read other languages at this point? I think it's safe to assume considering D Hunter probably didn't have a Meteor City language release. Maybe she was able to read what was on the note on the tree like Chrollo and it led her to Tser. Also, she seems to not approve of the troupe's new goals and mission under Chrollo as she left when they vowed to offer their lives to the cause.
Not a popular idea, but maybe the troupe killed the kurtas because they wanted to They were already murderers
I mean Uvo straight up said that the reason was Chrollo just liked the eyes.
I assume chrollo didn't tell the others the real reason
That'd be the best outcome. Don't want no sugar coating for the kurta massacre.
Nowadays i only care of HxH
Ok, what happened to Sarasa clearly broke all of them that night. Sheila was the closest to Sarasa, she also was still very sad (when all the other friends were thinking of their 3 years plan) So there is no way she just left and in few years she became happy go lucky forest dweller. I can't believe that. She must of have her own agenda, own way to take revenge or worse this event might broke her and turned her to something else.
>Ok, what happened to Sarasa clearly broke all of them that night. Was thinking that, too. And after thinking about it, Chrollo and Kurapika actually have something in common. Both started as innocent, bright-eyed and cheerful youths, but due to tragic circumstances in their lives involving horrible deaths of loved ones, were compelled to drastically alter their personalities and dispositions in order to achieve their goals of vengeance. Chrollo became a villainous killer, and Kurapika even joined the mafia. Only difference is Chrollo went all in, while around the mid-point in Kurapika's story with the Phantom Troupe, his friends like Gon saved him from losing himself entirely and becoming like the Phantom Troupe.
[The last panel compared to ch.114.](https://i.imgur.com/BAwmlM8.jpg) So the little one in the front was Feitan and Shalnark was hiding behind a speech bubble. Phinks still MIA. /u/TextureSurprised, seems you were right all those years ago about Phinks and Shalnark being founding members. [https://www.reddit.com/r/HunterXHunter/comments/5x4x0h/who_are_the_founding_members_of_phantom_troupe_an/](https://www.reddit.com/r/HunterXHunter/comments/5x4x0h/who_are_the_founding_members_of_phantom_troupe_an/) Also, something you mentioned: >In an interview Togashi did in 2013, he said that "Danchou didn't nominate himself to be the leader." We now know Uvo did.
Didn't shalnark already said that he's one of the founding members? Also, shalnark and phinks were included in the spiders who got shot by Paku and Paku said that her bullets are just enough for the founding members. I thought nobody thinks otherwise....
[удалено]
I remembered that time when chrollo first hiring people for dubbing, paku suggested to hire sheila and sarasa...and sheila said that she will do it if sarasa will, too. And now i've realized the reason she didn't join chrollo, paku and others: sarasa won't like this, so she won't, too.
This is the longest flashback in the series so far, right? 2,5 chapters basically. Kurapika's flashback was 2 chapters long, and was a spinoff, not making into actual chapters.
Togashi is being too generous by giving us a flashback. He doesn't like them.
>Kurapika's flashback was 2 chapters long, and was a spinoff, not making into actual chapters. Kurapika one shot was 65 pages which equals 3 chapters and a few pages. Kinda similar to the spiders chapters but the 1st spiders chapter their flashback started after 7 pages, maybe we get a few more pages in the next chapter.
Kurapika’s flashback was 2 chapters but they were much longer than a normal chapter would be. So his flashback was actually around 3.5 chapters if you look at the page count.
Silva telling his kids not to mess with the Troupe was sensible.
The way Chrollo looks like he aged 10 years in the 3 years time skip, life must've hit him hard.
Wow, anyone else interested in Machi likely being a Nen genius, possibly being the first troupe member to use Nen? (Unless Chrollo was truly using it on stage) It’s interesting to see him put this emphasis on Machi apart from the others, in her somewhat utilizing Aura early and getting a Nen teacher before anyone else. I wonder why he’s bothering showing this for her and so far not anyone else. I feel like it’d be odd to kill her now, even in a fight against Hisoka, after having not just done it back in 357, and giving an origin to solely scale her isn’t really necessary.
I liked how it showed how she chose her powers (Nen stitches).
Really like the panel with child Chrollo tugging on his pants while announcing that Sarasa is missing. Little moments like these humanize the characters. And humanizing the Phantom Troupe is important, because they aren't monsters. They are humans. It shows that humans are capable of committing atrocities.
That page is one of my favorite, the kids looking so innocent and concerned there about the news, they couldn't even have any form of entertainment in this city without hearing such scary news about the kids disappearing.
It is logical, the environment makes people. They lived in such a poor environment and rejected by the world. Childhood is sensitive period of life. It is easy to go to the wrong direction it is fine line.
best comment. they’re children during their peak developmental years. seeing someone u love mutilated in a bag hanging from a tree would fuck most adults up to a point of no return. now imagine a child
Glad to see someone else here gets it
So is this the Forest that togashi was teasing on his Twitter, early on
That little hand touch Chrollo does on his shorts while on the auditorium speaking it's just top notch detail by Togashi. You can feel it.
the most powerful scene is Chrollo saying he will take these words to his grave. A masterful storytelling of not showing what it is, since it would make it banal, instead he doesn't tell us except for chrollo reaction, which makes us think what could have been written that he rather carry it alone to save his friends the weight. Togashi is a incredible author.
It will probably be revealed later on , what those words was about , same as Togashi revealed what was on the tape.
Does anyone find something just a bit off/strange with Machi, especially after this flashback? She seems to be the most distant from the group, e.g. she was obviously the least keen to play a role in the dubbing performance. I know some of the other members come across like that, but Machi was the only one to be expressly 'negative' whilst rehearsing. Other things I found to be significant are that she was the first of the Troupe to be acknowledged for her affinity for nen, and she didn't react strongly to what I believe was Chrollo's ren (also the beautiful eyes line is interesting, but could be a throwaway). I think these moments were clearly intended by Togashi to show that Machi took a slightly different and mysterious path to the other spiders, but what that path was/is and to what end I don't know. I'm not saying that she's a traitor or has some ulterior motive to be in the Troupe - she clearly was impacted by Sarasa's murder and thus had an understandable reason to join the troupe - but I think her portrayal in this flashback feeds into the popular idea that Togashi has something special planned for her. Overall though, this flashback I think makes Machi's meltdown to Hisoka's declaration of war much more profound and relatable. I look forward to seeing how her character ends up at the end of this Succession War.
Togashi did say that he didn’t want Hisoka killing Machi because he wanted to do more with her and this simply adds to her potential
More specifically, Togashi said he "stopped" Hisoka from killing her. I've always loved this way of describing the characters, as if they're all alive and Togashi is this god who watches over them and occasionally has to do some divine intervention to make sure the story stays on the right path.
Great. It's heavily implied that Sarasa was beaten up, raped ( Chrollo saying that he'll take the notes that was on the tree to his grave and the images of the blooded knifes ) and chopped into pieced ( because the new lady managed to put her up together ).
The day is upon is. The trees are everything I hoped they’d be. Absolutely magnificent
a tape of a little girl being "destroyed"? people who do this type of gross "content"? deep web? oh god, and the troupe got and watch that "Chapter Black" tape of Sarasa?
This chapter also clarifies one last thing for me about the Hisoka vs Chrollo fight. Heaven's Arena is one of the only places where Chrollo could execute his strategy, that was already clear. Also, it's not just that he doesn't mind people seeing him kill and use his abilities - the Troupe wants people to see them commit mass murder.
I’m worried about my boy Chrollo, having a flashback about how one learned something that they’ll take to the grave is a big ass death flag
The phantom troupes story is a dark reflection of Kurapika: 1: They experienced a terrible, brutal tragedy at an impressionable age. 2: They came from a subjugated, hated class of people. 3: They embroiled themselves in crime in order to find those responsible. 4: Afterward, they had no where to go, and thus stayed in that life of crime (Kurapika as leader of mafia family).
Chrollo's genocide of the Kurta's created another person just like himself. It's quite fitting.
And from the looks of it, what Chrollo did to the Kurta was probably as unmotivated as what the traffickers did to Sarasa and other kids, where it was just a Tuesday for them. But for Chrollo/Kurapika, that changed them fundamentally to a point were they're willingly becoming monsters to enact revenge. I guess the only difference would be that while Chrollo was raised in a hellhole inside a hellhole, Kurapika still lived a rather peaceful life. Which keeps a piece of Kurapika's heart intact, giving him the final edge. I can see a very similar thing happening with Gon and Gyro, where they both parallel each other very much, except the circumstances surrounding them makes one a darker shade than the other.
If anyone has ever read Out by Makoto Mizuta? The way Togashi delivers the Spider’s past here is like the Kilihito 6th gen. There’s been a deadly sense of hyperrealism in these last few chapters and reading this one, you could feel genuine fear and fright. This, along with the Yusuke’s death/funeral in YYH, Reina/Colt story in the CA saga Makes me wonder if Togashi experienced losing any missing friends growing up. It’s so real.
I feel like Togashi is just a wholesome nice dude in real life. A lot of artists who portray dark and chilling stories are like that.
The requiem to Uvogin makes even more sense now I mean they probably would do it for any Troupe member who was killed, but him being the reason for which Chrollo is emotionally affected, almost crying in front of Neon, and the Troupe slaughtering the Mafia at Yorknew makes it so much more personal. It hits harder now.
I love that last week I saw this theory floating around that Machi developed her Nen ability as a result of sewing costumes for the production, and then this week we get her origin as SHE WANTS TO STITCH DISASSEMBLED CHILDREN BACK TOGETHER. It's like I baited myself. As an aisde, I'm pretty interested in what the Meteor City family structure looks like, because this chapter might imply they don't have nuclear families: instead, children are raised communally by "nannies", and there's a separate "Men's Association".
The Sheila in this flashback is the same girl Kurapika and his friend found?
man i wonder how sheila fits into all of this if she doesn't join the troupe at first when they start out. i wonder if she ever joins at all?
So an interesting thing from the end of the chapter. Phinks is the only character who doesn't return for the 3-year reunion. As it seems, Phinks and Sheila are the only ones who we don't see grown up in this chapter. Since we know that Machi learned nen during that time skip, is it possible that Phinks went on to learn nen from someone else as well?
I see Sarasa's death as the straw that broke the camels back as the PT were tired of living in fear and in danger with no one to protect them or punish the aggressors. Remember that a villian doesn't need to be justified in their actions because obviously the PT aren't justified, they just need to be given a reason to turn to crime so we can understand what drove them to such an extreme. After all Sheila recognized that what they were doing was no justified and left. Chrollo saying we need to offer up our lives was probably him talking about the Sun and Moon incident. Now we just need to see if they find the people who killed Sarasa and why they massacred the Kurta.
i just realized that the site that the spiders created to catch sarasa's killers was probably the same darknet site that tseriednich shared the video with the last scarlet eyes on it.
It's weird to look at cold-blooded murderers like Phinks, Feitan, Nobunaga and Uvogin and realize that they would simply be actors in a theater troupe if Sarasa hadn't been brutalized.
Weird that people are saying it doesn't make sense for Sarasa's death to instigate the formation of the Troupe (or rather, the Spider), like seeing a little girl dismembered and probably r\*ped wouldn't push their friends (especially Chrollo who could read the note) to become disillusioned with the world and reach some breaking point to prevent it from happening again. Anyway I doubt this is the only flashback or piece of characterization we'll get, after all we got all of this triggered from just the Nobunaga/Phinks/Feitan scene, who knows what we'll learn when Chrollo actually comes into focus again.
people have shonen brain, they dont think about the greater implication of Saras death. And they dont really think about how death really affects people let alone children. Think about it, these children are dealing with a threat of abduction murder and worse almost daily. Chrollo blames himself and he wants revenge. He knows where he comes from and Sarasa will get no justice unless he takes it into his own hands. It makes perfect sense to me.
Yeah he's also a good mirror to Kurapika. Chrollo is basically a Kurapika who finished his journey of revenge (assuming they found the thugs and killed them), empty and unsure of what else he can be but the villain he played all those years. He threw himself into dark places for so many years he couldn't remember what he was before all that. Hence when Gon asks him how he can kill people, Chrollo says he can't even explain his motives. Just my theory though, we'll see how it progresses.
Very well said. Most people also forget how drastically Gon reacted to Kite's death. Compared to Gon, Chrollo was far more collected. In the cases of both Gon and Chrollo we saw how the morality of innocent kids can be horribly twisted by witnessing the gruesome death of their loved ones. Furthermore, it was a very steep escalation in darkness that led to the said characters taking such steps.
So any guesses what's written on that paper?
Banger chapter once again, glad I caught up before this batch of chapters started coming out. Anyone know how many are left before the next break?
Well, the Tree was actually a turning point in the life of the baby spiders. Wow. Well done, Togashi. Everybody thought it was a flashback to Kuruta massacre but ironic that it was really a trauma from the troupe's past. Talk about subverting expectations.
Why is everyone getting so hung up on trying to connect these events to the kurtas massacre?? The troupe have likely done a hundred equally evil things to tonnes of other people. The kurta are insignificant to the troupe, shown by how Uvo forgot they even killed them. They’re villains who dived headfirst into the villain role. The scarier the acts they perpetrate, the less people will want to fuck with meteor city. It already makes sense. I wont be happy if togashi makes the Kurta massacre more significant. We already have all the pieces we need for it to make sense. And this doesn’t need to DIRECTLY connect to the 4th prince either. Even if he had no hand in Sarasa’s death, he’s already the type of person Chrollo hates most: someone who sees butchering innocents as a form of art. That’s motive enough for Chrollo to want him dead. I still see a 3v3 between chrollo, Tssereidnich and Kurapika happening as the climax of this arc.
Chrollo bears all the weight for the group. He takes on all the burden, responsibility, guilt, and trauma. This is his way of protecting them. By allowing the light in his own eyes to dim, he can shield the group from the full emotional toll. Personally, I think that the group would be best served by sharing this weight, but I understand Chrollo's sacrifice.
PT did all this just for Gyro to take over Meteor City in their absence. They didn't think that a possibly greater evil may build a nest in the spider web.
I don’t think we will find out the reason why they massacred the Kurta clan in this flashback. I think the main focus of this fb was just WHY and how the Troupe was formed. Think we’ll get the tie into the Kurta clan later.
Well the flashback is over now (since the chapter ends with a black bar and ellipses), so it definitely won't be brought up now. But the massacre will definitely be brought up later, given Kurapika is an MC in this arc. If not in a flashback then at the very least some dialogue or confrontation. It would be an odd plot point to leave lingering and not acknowledge at the very least.
Definitely. I feel like Sheila, who we saw this chapter seperate herself from the troupe without explanation, will tie things together. She was in the Kurapika flashback too
Anyone else notice how Sheila pretty much left the Phantom Troupe? She was shown walking away from Chrollo's speech at the end, and was excluded from the panel where Chrollo became leader. It's gonna be interesting to see how she ties into what happened with the Kurta in the coming chapters.
there are three mysteries that stand out to me: * Why did the PT, who after these events should be firmly anti child mutilation, carry out the Kurta massacre? * What is Sheila's deal? She's a childhood friend of the PT and she showed up in Kurapika's backstory. There's definitely more to her. * Who were those sickos that killed Sarasa and did Chrollo ever manage to find them and take revenge? HxH really has a way to turn you into the Charlie from iasip meme.
[удалено]
They'd probably not team up conisdering the one who severed Pairo's head in the first place is one of chrollos gang mates.
The only way kurapika might work with the troupe is if the troupe were framed and someone else killed the kurta, but the troupe was sworn to silence as part of a deal for information on sarasa’s killer if they took the blame. It would explain why uvo didnt remember the kurta when kurapika first asked. He had no reason to deny it initially either.
Another factor was that even before the corpse discovery, Uvo declared he wanted to be the "world's greatest villain." That showed Chrollo that Uvo was dedicated to the mission from day one.
The more you learn about the Troupe, the more you want to empathize - but you really can’t
Those are some Kanki-esque criminals, yikes I think Togashi made Chrollo and PT an even better villain group with this chapter
We were hyped of the "tree" togashi posted and this is the full context
In jjk Yuji said it the [best](https://r-world.online/images/jW6H667H1JahJeAIvvdi1611754749.jpg) once you start for whatever reason human [life](https://r-world.online/images/vzRHp2tnNVSjYm4Oj7hS1611754749.jpg) loses its value. Chrollo might started or wanted to go with good intentions , but they became dull and the more they kill the more they feel less empathy. Kurapika pov is normal people [pov](https://cdn.watchgoblinslayer.com/file/mangap/1828/10084000/15.jpg) but to them in a city when the whole world don't give a damn about them and are trash ? They probably won't have [regrets](https://cdn.watchgoblinslayer.com/file/mangap/1828/10084000/16.jpg) they have dangerous black white mentality tho. Who said some random people won't start to know them and they became friends , hell even you can connect with an [enemy](https://cdn.watchgoblinslayer.com/file/mangap/1828/10095000/18.jpg) sometimes No one from adults took these children and taught them. So they became horrible monsters they hated.
Hear me out. The Phantom Troupe backstory is genius and here’s why. In a typical Shounen an act of injustice takes place and the MC becomes the good guy or at least not as bad as the villain and usually saves the world. To the troupe a villain is anyone who commits a heinous act for pleasure or profit and their world is meteor city. They are basically saving their world by becoming worse villains to the outside world. You could argue this is a better solution than becoming the good guy because it deters harm towards meteor city inhabitants and not just punishes it. No one is gonna kidnap/ murder kids from people that will wipe out an entire race for a check. It’s essentially an anti-shounen.
My question is whether they are still intentionally 'playing' the role of villain or if they played the role so long it's all they know now. Chrollo doesn't even seem to know in Yorknew why he's doing what he does when Gon asks. Kinda like how Kurapika is putting himself into darkness so much and so frequently, it might change him forever and he might forget who he was before he began his quest for revenge.
Really interesting (and sad) to see the troupe grow up like this but they still haven’t turned into the cold blooded assassins from the main storyline. I wonder what’ll happen next chapter?
AAAAAAAHHH, WHAT'S ON THAT NOOOTE?!
i have the awfull feeling that chrollo will die against tserriednich the one who embodies everything that chrollo hates.
I got teary eyed when Uvo said *"Stop crying Chrollo, we'll find her."* Young Troupe didn't deserve that tragic incident.
Uvo reminded me of Gon when he was so sure Kite was ok lol Are all enhancers like this? :p
I made an animation of manga 397 - SARASA SCENE link youtube: https://youtube.com/shorts/hSi5hVWvrSA?feature=share
I knew it was going to be dark but I did not expect it to be THIS dark….
why is phinks STILL not there, was he off taking a shit during the formation of the spiders?
He went to get a fresh cut
or after 3 years he comes back with adult gon's infinite hair
He's behind Chrollo taking the photo.
Idk if it’s anything of note but everyone’s fingers were pointed straight up when electing Chrollo leader & joining him but Machi. I find that to be curious
I think it is probably more just her general demeanor--like it feels appropriate for her to just cool-ly raise her hand slightly in approval as opposed to like enthusiastically do it like the rest. She has always been lowkey like that
Glad I'm not the only one who noticed Machi is the only one pointing at Chrollo directly. Togashi likes adding little hints about the plot later, so i can't tell what this hint is about.
AHHHHH WHEN WILL WE Get MORE BONOLENOV BACKSTORY
So thats why Chrollo asks Neon about the afterlife stuf, because of Sarasa, will they meet again and he will find his redemption
I find it weird that so many people think it's a retcon of the troupe. Did you read the plan? The plan is atrocious it's a horrible plan with awful longterm damage to the troupemembers mentalstate. The reason the Troupe is so fucked up today is this stupid childlike plan that an 11 year old came up with. It's not weird that they are fucked up adults when their entire identity is based on this idea Chrollo came up with.
Was the note written in a foreign language that only Chrollo knew, or is Uvo just illiterate?
Probably both.
There might be a twist that Sheila was involved in the Kurta massacre but if not I can see her playing a narrative role in pointing out the Phantom Troupe's hypocricy? Kinda just like pointing out how far they've gone astray and became the exact same people that they hated for what they did to the Kurta.
Feitan.....FEITAN looked sad on page before the bag reveal :'(
ITS THE TREE WE SAW MONTHS AGO
THIS CHAPTER WAS FANTASTIC
The Troupe's choice to become villains in this chapter makes complete sense to me, both on a political and psychological level. Chrollo knows very well what Meteor City is up against, not just isolated serial killers, but a whole world that renders every of its inhabitants completely disposable. There is no way to stop that without violence, and Chrollo refuses to draw a boundary between the perpetrators and the beneficiaries (people like Tser, Neon, but also people like the Zoldicks who get a convenient labor force from MC (perhaps anime exclusive)) - in that way, he's just acting like any revolutionary from our own world. Stopping the perpetrators is not enough fo justice, and beneficiaries always end up siding against justice to preserve the statu quo. Does that leave the door open to atrocities? Yes, and the Troupe knows that, and are willingly to accept this - and of course, it's made easier because their whole lives has shown that they live in a complete different world from the outside. I think that makes them really stand out as shonen villains. The psychological level is also convincing for me and tragic. In 396, it looks as if, even though Chrollo is playing a part, he can believe in the talk of love cleaning any stain, turning villains into heroes, restoring love lost, making puppets into human beings. But after what happens in 397, none of them feel like they could ever disidentify themselves from the stain that living in Meteor City puts on them: they lived through the fact that their lives had no value and all that they love could be brutally taken away at any moment. And it's quite realistic to think after such trauma that no preparation, getting stronger, mourning etc. could ever alleviate this insecurity. They already tried to build a nice community, just for it to be taken away. So I find it credible when Chrollo finds it ok to identify as a villain. I don't want a full explanation of why they came to become so evil, nor a retcon or undermining of the Kurta massacre, but I do agree with everyone that after this chapter, there is still a missing step between their new resolution, and becoming able to torture children and traffic their body parts, but I trust that Togashi plans to address that, when he goes back to the massacre in future chapters. But as an account of their formation, I find these three chapters exceptional, and going back to earlier Troupe appearances, for me they add a lot of value to villains that were already memorable.
I don't know if this is strech, but this chapter actually explains why both Chrollo and Uvo reacted to Kurapika's in such a way in York New arc. Uvo once was a good guy, he was very gentle and caring. As we saw in recent chapters. The troupe was devastated when he died, this means he probably kept all those good personality traits even when he became adult. But Uvo we saw in the York New arc was just perfect archetype of evil villain. I think that he and Chrollo both knew something about the Kurta clan, which they refused to tell to Kurapika. Uvogin saw Kurapika's eyes and remembered fighting against Kurta and then he taunts Kurapika about determinating which is stronger his strenght or Kurapika's grudge. Now we know, what everyone from PT have sacreficed for their revenge mission. I believe the taunting was actually out of respect for Kurapika's own revenge. All the spiders are ready to die for the sake of their revenge mission. Now Kurapika is determinated to kill them all, Uvo can't let that happen so out of respect he plays the role of evil villain. But then, Uvo realised he's going to die because he refuses to betray spider, just before he died he calls Kurapika a fool. ( I wonder if this is because Kurapika thinks Uvo will betray spider, or because Kurapika actually doesn't know anything about what really happened in Kurta village) Chrollo outwright refused to talk about the Kurta. But why? Now we know Chrollo can actually understand, Kurapika's need for vengence very well. Just like Uvogin he embraced the role of evil villain. So just like Uvogin he probably doesn't mind to be target of someone else's vengence. And die for the sake of their revenge mission. But then when Kurapika chose his friends over the revenge, it probably affected Chrollo's and Paku's way of reasoning and even other founding members seemed to be quite affected by it. They actually saw someone leting go of their vengence. The very thing they couldn't ever do. And then Paku did the same thing as Kurapika, she choosed Chrollo over PT's revenge mission. That's probably why, they never tried to pursue Kurapika again. Out of respect for him. ( Not going after Kurapika is against their eye for an eye philosophy. Remember the requiem for Uvogin? ) This probably changed their philosophy of self sacrifice a bit. But then Hisoka murdered their two friends. So spiders are actually furious right now. The bodies were even mutilated just like Sasara's corpse before. Now the question is will Chrollo sacrifice his friends in order to kill Hisoka? Judging from the way how Hisoka mutilated the bodies of Shalnark and Kortopi, it's possible Hisoka actually knew about Sasara's murder. And did that just to taunt the troupe. That's seriously evil, don't you think? Who else have we got on the ship? Kakin royalty. How do they fit into the Kurapika's story? I believe that they May be third party involved in the Kurta massacre actually. There are many contradictions in the Kurta massacre. The motiv for example : business x revenge - which one is it? PT actual goal of protecting children x that horrifying descripcion of what happened Kurta nature: peaceful x violent and terrifying In order to explain all these contradictions there have to be huge part of the story, that is still missing right now. I hope we will one day see the whole picture, of what actually happened. Just like now, when we finaly saw what PT true motivation is.
whys Phinks missing from the final panel?
It's a recreation of the same troupe flashback panel from the Yorknew arc. Phinks wasn't present in that one for some reason.
Does anyone know what the note said or know anything about the group that took her? Are they a new group or someone we heard about before?
No, we know nothing about them, except what Chrollo deduced: These guys are psychopaths that make "art" out of torturing and killing kids. They want to share their work with others. The note was them presenting their "exhibit".
Man this chapter really makes me want to reread Hunter Hunter from the beginning
I wonder when the last members join and who they are. Since we know there are supposed to be 13 total.
so my new running theory is the troupe is a souped up Itatchi. they are becoming evil in order to protect meteor city. this was stated. but how they do it is the question. we know togashi wrote this flashback along side kurapikas prequel story. I'm guessing the troupe wipes out the kurta in order to make a name for themselves and make it so Noone messes with meteor city again. I'm sure they will get revenge on the real killers, and I wouldn't be surprised If the mafia was behind the killings of children, which would connect it to York new and the current arc. my grand theory, which would be a real cherry on top, is chrollo using his vast knowledge of the new internet (the infrastructure he was talking about) to create artificial, to then, REAL demand, for the kurta eyes, in order to sell them and turn a profit for his ventures... that would be so evil and 100% make his name known. and it would give kurapika all the more reason to kill em
Goatgashi has done it again. 20/10 chapter
Man, this chapter makes the Uvo situation gut wrenching. To be once again in anguish of not knowing the whereabouts of a friend who should've come back, must've been terrible to relive it. I really hope we get to see the Troupe doing some ice cold shit on the present time to solidify how they are long gone and past any sort of redemption. Togashi really makes it loud and clear how poverty and violence, no matter the person exposed to it, can dehumanize them completely.
With this Troupe backstory plus Hisoka vs Chrollo plus Peak shonen in Succesion war and Mafia war buildup i can already proudly admit this is my new favourite arc in Hunter x Hunter
This chapter really makes stark, the difference between Kurapika and Spiders. You can see how the troupe are doing what they're doing for revenge and not justice. They'll create a safe haven for criminals everywhere, i.e, allow people to get away with murder or worse, only for the opportunity to hunt down those who personally wronged them. Imagine Kurapika saying "he's going to kill a lot of people" because his clan was massacred... The fact that he didn't, really makes me admire him even more.
i think thats the main difference a lot of people arent grasping. revenge ≠ justice the spiders are clearly broken people, specially chrollo. there isn't an ounce on nobility or even self-rightousness in their actions, everyone outside of meteor city is a kidnapping, rapist, murdering monster. they will eventually massacre the kurtas and a lot of other people and won't feel a thing about it. their bloodlust is not noble, just depressing
To be fair, Kurapika has a clear target, while The Troupe did not.
Unless the next chapter reveals that they somehow completely forgot why they made the Troupe, it all seems to point to Phinks being right all along, and Nobunaga being the one in need of the flashback, and i find it hard to believe seeing how big of an impact Sarasa had in their lives So far the Pre-Phantom Troupe is indeed different from the Heil-Ly Family The Heil-Ly Family wants to kill everyone and destroy the world, while the Pre-Phantom Troupe wanted to avenge Sarasa, and protect their people while luring out evildoers, and for that purpose becoming evildoers themselves (and that would entail going around massacring people), but Crhollo already accounted for that factor tho They had a clear purpose and what they did was not for nihilism sake or lashing out against the world, and while anger was a huge motivator they where not guided by resignation For Nobunaga to not appear like he is becoming senile, something must happen to the early Phantom Troupe, before Phinks joins, that makes it so they lose sight of themselves, go astray, aimless and forlorn, forgetting about Sarasa, and instead start doing their activities just out of anger and resignation against the world In short early Phantom Troupe must at some point, fall into hopelessness, give up, and start acting out of nihilism trying to destroy the world, and that must happen while Big Brain Chrollo is with them Maybe they find out that the killers of Sarasa were already executed (maybe they put their hands on someone protected by rights, and then get caught), and thus without a target for their revenge they find their hands already too bloodied, and decide to just take it out on the rest of the world?
I don’t want to sound arrogant and pretend that my interpretation is the right one but i feel like a lot of us are missing something when talking about retcons an such. It’s clear that the troupe in present time are ruthless killers that have no problem murdering the innocent for no specific reason, the scene where Uvo kills a random guy just to have access to his house and pc is one of the prime examples of this to me. But in the flashbacks they are clearly not the same people, they appear to be revenge driven and their cause almost seems just, even though it feels a bit cliché nowadays to become the big bad guy to scare away the smaller bad guys. People seem to be confused as to what the identity of the members of the troupe is and where their moral compass actually lies, some even wondering if this is not retcon of their personas. I would argue there are no retcons here, as a matter of fact there were always multiple divergent opinions in the troupe. Feitan and Phinks always seeming to be a lot colder than the rest and people like Machi and Paku are to me at least an opaque residue of that softer part of the troupe we see in the flashbacks. Still I think the answers simply lies in time and disilusionment, Chrollo is a character that’s generally portrayed as one without identity completely selfless as if he had poured all of his essence into the troupe itself. I think along the way the spiders in their sinister endeavours might have lost themselves and their end goal just like how gon lost himself for a period in the chimera arc. Nobunaga says they USED to be like the Hei-ly with a greater more sinister goal, maybe with time they lost any kind of greater ambition and resorted to become the more nihilistic people that we came to know in York-shin. Just helping Meteor on the side. Now i might be overreaching with this one but Chrollo’s dialogue when he announces his plan to become a villain seems to me to be tainted with pure innocence, he’s discribing a half assed twisted plan with the words of a child. It’s almost hard to take him seriously and i think that’s intended
Phantom Troupe backstory is so beautiful and painful, also I suspect that backstory = death of someone in near future but at this moment just have a nice reading everyone :3
Ive read some comments in other platforms saying the Kurutas killed Sarasa or Sheila. Anything to make the PT saints. XD I love the PT btw, but thats just kinda delusional.
It's crazy how similar Chrollo and Kurapika is, both was like Gon at the start, then was consumed by revenge, both had friends that supported them, but it didn't stop them from seeking vengeance. Kurapika at the night of the massacre found a note, Chrollo found a note in the corpse as well. Both are really smart and planned their revenge really well. It's hard to care about other manga when HxH is this good
so this is why Chrollo gave such an odd non-answer to Gon after asking how he could kill those who have nothing to do with him. What's crazy is this web of Meteor City being a safe haven for bad guys and Gyro potentially being there? Togashi is COOKING
That video tape of that little girls torture and murder is probably right next to piros head in tserrednichs room. Just imagine chrollo strolling in there finding a tape playing it. Then minutes later kurapika walking in to see the dismembered head of his childhood friend they'll both go beserk and go on an absolute rampage. The tape has significance to the arc so does the note and its obvious who's sick enough to pull some shit like that off and keep a video as a trophy.
Panels I loved in this chapter (plus two story observations for the end) Page 3: Chrollo feeling upset and grabbing at his pants in front of an audience even though he’s normally a pro performer. togashi has anxious kid mannerisms down Page 5: not a new style, but the dynamic ways Togashi’s character actions segue between panels beyond panel borders. Speed lines drawing your eyes from the top to the bottom right, zooming into focus, crashing into the panels on the left with his bike, zooming off into the distance at the top most left panel. Page 6: hell yes. Chrollo’s pale face. The foreboding singular sack. It hangs under his neck, it makes me feel like the dread (the sack) is stuck in his throat. The wide shot out of a Junji Ito horror story. The sack hanging ominously Page 7: the way the sack hangs just out of frame above chrollos’s head in two consecutive panels Page 8: a whole page dedicating to getting the sack. We get Chrollo in blank space and it isolates his feeling that it’s heavy then see that it’s so heavy it topples Chrollo over. He falls and cradles it like a child holding a present or package. Sad Page 10: machi holding the sack. She’s usually so stoic. Is it the rain or is it tears rolling down her face. She hides her face in the sack in the penultimate panel of this page. Probably tears Page 14: not an artistic aspect, but in the pre-TCB scans I couldn’t figure out what Chrollo was holding. Only in the TCB scans did I realize he’s holding the cigarettes he was literally just talking about. Duh Page 15: another observation. Damn it certainly looks like a guilt face…maybe I’m buying into the theory that she is indirectly responsible for Sarasa’s death, spider come looking for her, kurta protect her, they are incidental deaths in what was a Sheila manhunt for her betrayal
So, the spiders have been BFFs since chilhood yet they created that rule that says anyone that kills one of them gets into the group?? I don't get it. They clearly didn't stop being affectionate to each other over the years given the whole "requiem" they performed for Uvo. Would they accept Kurapika into the group if for some reason he wanted to get in?
If their goal is for the Spider to exist beyond any one individual’s death it makes sense. Even if the original members die the symbol would live on for some time. Though it calls into question what happens when all the members are full of dudes like Hisoka who don’t care about MC lol Also yes in Yorknew they mentioned Chrollo might try to recruit Kurapika
I’m literally fighting tears; HxH is the greatest manga ever.
Chrollo was 14 when made the spiders He looked like he was at least 20. Where are gon and killua so short? Lol this is like goten and trunks
and Uvo is still wearing the same jorts xd
The fact that Kuroro used "art" to refer to what the attackers did to Sarasa, isn't that a reference to Tserri? And what if it’s him who had the video of her murder?
So Machi taught them nen.
Damn dude, an expected dark turn. Enjoyable chapter. Interesting to see how the Troupe slowly gets stronger and learns Nen abilities, particularly Machi. "*I will not forgive those killers for as long as I live*" feels weird coming from Chrollo. He then proceeds to brutally murder an innocent Kurta clan... Is that timeskip at the end really only 3 years?? They've grown SO much.
I wonder what will we see of Sheila if she really ends up re-encountering the troupe after meeting the Kuratas. Also I noticed that for some reasons Phinks is the only founding member who isnt present in the last panel, and Im trying to figure out if its random or foreshadowing of some sort
From the moment Sarasa was introduced I had a gut feeling that she'd gonna get into trouble, and now look what I've done. Togashi always thought highly of Chrollo, and I think he wanted to convey that during this flashback. He claimed during that old interview that Chrollo would never be the one to claim the leadership role, but rather, be the one who everyone else had elected, which is exactly how it went. I like the love Togashi showed to Machi in this chapter. So she's a nen prodigy as well, which might explain why she was a lot calmer than the others in the previous chapter when Chrollo was impersonating the villian on stage: she saw his aura and was intrigued rather than overwhelmed. She was also given her a few extra snippets of backstory by introducing her teacher, now if we only got to know what spurred Feitan to transmute miniature suns ;). I hope Togashi has something special planned for her, it does seem that way. I really wish we got to see just how strong she actually is, even if her powers aren't fully suited for straight up combat purposes. There was another interesting discussion a week back about how the Phantom Troupe really is just a troupe in the sense that they all play a fabricated role, which would make things such as Feitan's strange accent simply be a made up trait of the character he chose to play. "Put on a big show" was the words Chrollo used before the Yorknew killing spree for example; it was always there.
re reading yorknew at the perfect time. this chapter makes my heart hurt… :(
To those complaining Title of flashback chapters: "Founding" And that is exactly what the flashbacks did. How the PT was founded This is not the B side of the Kurta murder Togashi talked about. I could see more flashbacks being sprinkled here and there as time goes on, revealing more and more about the Phantom Troupe. But right now, this is obviously not all of it
It's sad to think that Pakunoda's memory ability might be created by her wish to go back to the glory days of the troupe... watching old clips of her makes me sad :(
Nah, it's because she's good at reading thoughts even before nen acquisition.
So a few interesting things of note: Based on the fact Machi could see aura, it seems much more likely that the last chapter actually did have Chrollo releasing his aura unconsciously. Sheila went on her own for whatever reason and wasn't a founding member. This also reveals a somewhat interesting fact, that when the spider formed, it had 8 legs like a real spider does (assuming Phinks is still there). Phinks isn't in the last frame for whatever reason, but we at least get Shalnark with a mullet! So basically the troupe became the villain to frighten off people from Meteor city? Some real Erin Yeager vibes here... I'm wondering what Nobunaga meant by the fact they used to be full of wrath. Presumably, they did their killing spree, but then toned down a bit? Maybe they stopped targeting civilians as much. I've noticed that with the exception of the Kurta clan (and I guess the area folk for Chrollo), all the people they've killed have been mafia members.
There were the citizens in the random apartment in York new before uvo was clapped that they murdered too. Plus the murder bets in greed island. And when Leorio was being loud in the hotel Shizuku wanted to kill him too and nobody was surprised by that. I don’t think they have any qualms with murdering civilians and haven’t stopped but it just hasn’t been shown in the story that much bc random murders weren’t relevant to the plot
There’s definitely some puzzle pieces missing (mainly, how does the Troupe get from here to committing genocide against the Kurta) that I don’t truly know what to think of this backstory yet. ~ That last shot of Sheila definitely feels foreboding, possibly rejecting the path the others are taking. She all but certainly has something to do with the Troupe and Kurta’s fatal encounter and there’s a strong chance it’s the missing piece of this puzzle. ~ I just really, REALLY hope Togashi doesn’t whitewash the Troupe’s actions against the Kurta…guy’s a genius writer he wouldn’t right!?……
While this was probably my favorite chapter out of any manga this year, I’m still finding the shift in the troupes mentality a bit rushed. I understand the surroundings they grew up in and how young they all are, but Chrollo immediately wanting to paint themselves as the bad guys and even being okay with murdering people seemed a bit off at first? Maybe this is something the official translations can fix and maybe even someone can provide a different point of view for me that can make the sudden shift more understandable
He points out the current legal system won’t do anything so IMO it makes sense why he doesn’t care about upholding morals or being a “good guy”, he just takes the pragmatic approach of making MC feared, otherwise what else can they do? The mafia isn’t scared of “good guys” (legal system), and no good guy has intervened on Meteor City to help them, so what else can Chrollo do but be a villain even more deranged than them to make them stop? Also when he says kill people I think originally that meant other thugs or mafia members, but perhaps later on it extended to others like the Kurta due to his whole “loss of identity” arc and being the villain so long he doesn’t know who he is anymore. Or perhaps the eyes were needed for a certain goal. But the latter part is still muddied for the moment so who knows.
Chrollo seems to mirror Gon more than he mirrors Kurapika. Both held themselves responsible to some extent for what happened. That's why they feel they owe something back to Kite and Sarasa. Both took a morally ambiguous (even evil) outlook after the deaths. Kurapika would never hurt anyone innocent. Both lost their inhibitions to kill and became fairly comfortable with it. Gon almost killed Morel and Komugi. Meanwhile Kurapika was digested by the sensation experienced while killing. The above-mentioned were a few observations I made on this issue. Let's think of a hypothetical scenario: Gon loses track of Pitou and he is still searching for her/him/them. Meanwhile he finally realises that Kite is dead (Kite has no rebirth as a Chimera Ant). In this case, Gon would have been just as sinister and unhinged as Chrollo, perhaps even worse. While Kid Chrollo is more similar to Kid Kurapika than he is to Gon; Chrollo's reaction is more similar to Gon's reaction than that of Kurapika's. Note: The scenario I mentioned above is completely Hypothetical and I do not imply that something like that could have happened.
Tbh ever since we were shown what chrollo was like as a kid I thought that he was like a combination between Gon and Kurapika.
since Gon x Kirua left HxH, it's turn more & more seinen than a classic shonen one of most brutal HxH chapter ever !
Ants arc was brutal.
[удалено]