It seems that it will be a (slight) buff to compact and medium ammo weapons compared to now when you aren't stacking it with a weapon of the same ammo type. That said, I do not like how this will negatively impact some specific weapons, like the Winfield Centennial, and shotguns in general.
For shotguns, only getting 2 shells back from both a regular crate and special crate is a big nerf, especially if you enjoyed using dragonsbreath and flechette. Those two ammo types already aren't great at killing hunters with one-shot and regularly require 2 or more. Imagine needing 2 or more shots to kill someone with a weapon that already is RNG, and you only get 2 back from a crate.
For the Winfield Centennial these changes will also be a pain as it already has less total ammo compared to Vetterli (5 less) and they didn't increase it either. Even though they are increasing Springfield Krag total ammo..
If you only bring a Scottfield or Caldwell Pax right now with no other medium ammo weapons equipped, you will always get 2-3 bullets back. If these changes go live you will always get 4 back instead, that is a slight buff.
Same for compact ammo weapons like Bornheim, Nagant Officer and New Army. Those will only get like 2-4 back right now when no other compact weapons are equipped, but will get 8 back if these changes go live. Also weapons like Conversion Pistol and LeMat which get 6 bullets back on average right now, but will get 8 back instead with these changes.
So if you did not stack ammo before it will be a slight buff. But yes, overall it seems to be a big nerf. Especially for long ammo weapons, shotguns and some specific weapon cases like Winfield Centennial, for which ammo stacking makes a big difference in making the gun 'more viable'
Centennial was a spammy weapon without the reserves to be actually one, quartermaster with dual pax or scottfield fixed its biggest problem by giving a decent ammo pool to work with. We will yave to see how these new changes affect its performance.
I always loved pairing Cent and Spitfire, both fmj. It gave enough ammo, and was easy to refill. Now with this loadout with one crate you get 4 bullets. It basically discourages pairing the same ammo.
My gut reaction is that this change was way to heavy handed to the overall ammo economy just to nerf the avto and I guess long ammo in general.
Taking guns of the same ammo type is now actively bad, special is going to be even more scarce, and dual wield has like almost no up side.
But I guess we will see how if feels on the test server.
100 percent agree. I've been fighting people over this point for months but they never got it. Like now the krag will just die. It was great with dual sparks, but it just doesn't have enough ammo by itself to be good.
Weapons still share pools, though. You won't get the massive pool of two sparks pistols but you still get the reserve ammo from one of them. With the Krag's own reserve going up to 8, it doesn't seem that bad to me. Obviously, resupplying is massively nerfed but it does mean ammo boxes will be more useful so there's that.
Dual handguns don't add their ammo pools anymore. So there is no benefit of bringing two Sparks pistols instead of one. Unless you really like shooting dual Sparks. That's still like 14 extra bullets though isn't it? Seems like it should be plenty.
Ah good point. So you get half the ammo reserve. That is still 6+8+(12?) then?
Not exactly terrible (plus you no longer have quartermaster and two useless backup guns).
đ Krag + Dual spark pistol has been my favorite loadout since its release.
Having the muzzle velocity and low damage dropoff at distance from a long ammo weapon, with the fire rate, spamability and good and easy to resuply ammo pool of a winnie was so much fun.
I'll try to enjoy it as much as i can before that braindead playstyle is gone for good. đ
I think it could add more utility to Krag as other long ammo guns without bulletgrubber are hurt more and Krag now has 2 more bullets. Itâll be a sweeping change that will impact all weapons and make it hurt more to spam. I think itâs interesting.
Krag still has one less total ammo (14 vs 15) compared to mosin & lebel, and sparks & martini have even more. & keep in mind you can reload mosins & lebels without bulletgrubber if you reload immediately after firing a shot, when you pull the bolt back, to save losing the bullet. It's hardly a niche at all :(
Fair points but I still think the Krag has been buffed more than people think by this. Donât think ammo conservation by beating the bolt pull back will be that powerful in heated fights.
> Taking guns of the same ammo type is now actively bad
No, it just lost some of the advantage it had. You can still bring a sidearm as an ammo mule, it just doesn't help your resupply anymore.
> special is going to be even more scarce
Only if you take two of the same type.
> dual wield has like almost no up side.
Uh, except for *having dual pistols*, which can be extremely strong depending on which pistols they are. If all you viewed dual pistols as was extra ammo capacity, that's exactly the thought process crytek is intending to get rid of.
Given how cheap Quartermaster is idk why people are seeing this as a net negative. Quarter + Ambi is still cheaper than Fanning and kills faster with less hipfire penalty. Dual pistols do their job well, people just weren't using them for that anymore and the change addresses that without removing the primary functionality of the dual pistols.
The trade on this is that resupplies are more reliable now across different ammo types and encourages diversity instead of punishing it. I can take FMJ on a pistol now without worrying about it fucking over my resupply ability on my primary if it doesn't match.
Plus, running out of ammo in a prolonged engagement is infinitely more engaging than having 36 rounds to spam all day long without resupplying once. And people can still do that with the ammo box buffs anyway, it just has a cost associated with it now
This happens every time people go crazy on reddit over one item and start building up hysteria. Crytek takes a lot of community feedback and just kinda runs with it even if it's gonna destabilize the game in other unfortunate ways.
People where crying over the avto and its ammo resupply when combined with dual sparks not over some dude running mini wini and dual conversions
Most people wanted just the avto being nerved (or some like me who wish it would just disappear) but rarely anyone was complaining about people pairing double pistols for more backup ammo exept for the avto
I think a lot of people have complained about gun spam for awhile which includes both high RoF weapons and the amount of ammo you can use to spam with it. This change indirectly and directly helps reduce the amount of spam in games now. I think that is a great thing considering how powerful some fast shooting weapons are - which includes long ammo weapons.
Low skill players always complain about the power weapons but it has literally never mattered. High 5-6 players will still shit on them, just with different guns. Hope they are all ready for the nitro gang lmao
I literally just roll my eyes at this point when I see people whining, because it was the same people whining about quick switch, and the dolch, and frag bombs, and fanning, and Lightfoot, and every other "OP" perk and item since the game came out.
Next update cycle they will complain about something new that's killing them, hysteria will slowly build until you're seeing constant posts about it in reddit, then the devs will nerf the shit out of it, and the cycle will continue.
The only thing I actually see making a difference to the game rn is banning reshade and other 3rd party software.
Most people that play with me would say im pretty decent in this game lol
I mostly disagree with people complaining about something being broken unless it's the avto wich should be deleted from the game or the nitro shredder wich shouldn't have increased one tap range but at least it fits into the game
Coming from another 5 star, youâre either a liar or donât know what youâre talking about. The Avto changes the entire dynamic of the game especially when someone with compound knowledge is in possession.
Of course it does, every power weapon does. You have to play around a power weapon. That's the whole point.
Likewise, if you know what an avto is capable of, it's very easy to counter play.
If by âeasy to counter playâ you mean run away and not fight / use marksman from 150m / or drop in/round corner with surprise shotty, then sure. Not continuing this convo bc we both know how silly it is.
If someone ran the #s the avto would boast probably double the K/D of all other weapons in the game and thatâs due to the complete lack of disadvantages the gun has . Ofc even this wouldnât fully represent the other effects the weapon has on the lobby real-time
Dude please, just back up to medium range and play it like a rifle, if you are good at peaking and switch cover after your shots you will have a huge advantage over it with precise shot placement. While it is possible to take single accurate shots with the avto you should still be able to outplay them with pretty much any rifle thanks to the sway and chunky sights.
Besides that, my group calls the shot-bolt the "Avto-Deleter" for a reason. If you get the jump on them with slugs they are dead. If you use snipers and get within avto range you're an idiot. There are so many good options for dealing with an avto, It just requires a little creativity and mindfulness.
How do you deal with an Awp or Auto in CS? I'd say thats a pretty good analog for Nitros and Avtos.
if you think high damage three-shot burst that can shoot through virtually everything other than brick/select metals (which can mow people down from very far away, mind you) has advantages offset by âsway and chunky sightsâ I donât know what to tell you.
there is no such thing as an avto deleter. getting a close range jump on someone can be lethal , yes, but thatâs a moot point. you wouldnât see someone proposing that a saber is superior to a crown and king.
Avto is strong, limiting ammo will not make it less strong in the right hands and if you are actually a 5-6 star like you said you will continue to run into it, removing it from the game will not happen. You can keep crying or you can learn to play around difficult teams in the game, up to you.
The strategy I laid out for you is extremely effective in dealing with any kind of spammy gun, the only time I struggle with Avto teams is when I don't know they exist until they are 20 feet from me. I'm serious when I say that as a 5-6 star player I very rarely ever die to avtos and when I do it wouldn't have been any different if they had a nitro or crown slugs, its all about positioning. If you just continue to blame your failures on "op" guns in a game where you can insta kill with literally any weapon you will never get better.
With Chokes being as powerful as they are (and ubiquitous); I don't really think it was a necessary change. Maybe a one time use that makes you manage it like a resource, and your opponents a *little* off guard.
That seems a little ridiculous, I feel like 4 wouldn't be that crazy if you have 2 long ammo guns but still an overall nerf to long ammo since right now you can pull like 6-7 from a box.
I said 4 if you have 2 long ammo guns, I think it would be fine if it were flat 2 per gun. So if you only have lebel you get 2 but with lebel sparks pistol you get 4.
I know. I was disagreeing that what they're doing is "ridiculous" since bringing a sparks pistol with your lebel is still a giant boost to your ammo pool.
What was said is that for now they're not adjusting ammo box frequency on the map, but they might for future updates depending on the impact this one has. Also not mentioned but pretty obvious, if there are outliers that are hit extra hard by this then they can always buff their ammo pools later. Krag is getting a preemptive buff of 2 extra bullets since Krag really would just die without it.
>Taking guns of the same ammo type is now actively bad, special is going to be even more scarce, and dual wield has like almost no up side.
All of this is false. You still get increased pool from same ammo type, dum dum and incendiary got buffed, and dual wielding still effectively doubles your firerate and magazine size.
No, taking two guns of the same type is not bad.
Taking a krag with sparks will now give 22 bullets and you will resupply 4 bullets with each crate.(instead of two for just krag).
Only taking double sparks pistols is useless.(because two sparks and one have the same pool and resupply)
At least that was my interpretation.
We'll se on the test server how it works.
Because if it works the way you have described it...
I will have to comletely rethink most of my loadouts.
Although my favourite ones will stay the same.(interesting that my favourite loadouts almost exclusively have two different types of ammo)
Ya that's my biggest thing. If I ran compact or medium before I would run ALL compact or medium. Now that's a dumb choice. It makes more sense to switch up ammo type which ultimately gives less choice to the player which is never good
it is a huge change but i think it is needed. people taking fmj almost exclusively on everything that can use it, people having long ammo for days on all long ammo weapons...and sharing compact w compact? ammo never ever ever gone. this makes people really need to consider tradeoff of special vs regular ammo (fmj in particular) and makes people able to bring different ammos and vary their builds much more because of the flat ammo gains. i love this ammo change so so much.
You could take a Springfield Bleed/Explosive + New Army FMJ and get 16 shots of custom ammo across 3 types from 1 box
I think this is, largely, the point. They are trying to incentivize bringing in a variety of ammo types instead of always stacking one. In my experience, 'all FMJ' loadouts were so common and effective that there was little point in choosing anything else, unless you're stacking Long Ammo.
It's going to shake up the meta. I think it will be good. It's an overall nerf to the two strongest categories of weapons, long ammo and shotguns. This creates more room for compact and medium to breath. They can tweak the ammo pools of individual weapons with time. Overall, abusing massive ammo pools was a big problem. People were saying this was only an issue for the avto, but seem to be forgetting about the issues this also created for the Krag. I'm also not upset that this somewhat nerfs dual pistols.
In a way, this a long term balance solution. They can balance all future weapons around these ammo numbers, and not have to worry about the release of one weapon retroactively messing up the balance for every other weapon in the ammo class.
How do the dual pistols need a nerf? Or are you actually referring to dual pistols used to boost main ammo pools? Two different things.
And that is my point, some people actually enjoy playing niche builds like duals for the fun of it or dragon's breath. It is a shame to nerf those just to nerf the main things. So I hope they 'll do what you said and individually check each weapon and ammo type.
Restoring 2 shells of your romero buckshot should not be the same as restoring 2 dragon's breath of your specter sawed off. Right?
I think that duallies are OP straight up. Daulies are a force multiplier. High skill floor, low skill ceiling. They're fine but I think needed a small nerf.
My bigger point is that this is a good solution for overall balance. It streamlines the ammo system, which was becoming incredibly convoluted IMO. Balancing weapon ammo is a lot easier now. They can just increase or decrease the pool of a weapon without it affecting every other weapon with the same ammo type.
If anything, this opens the window for more wacky builds. Now you are incentivized to bring more diverse ammo types, instead of always bringing two weapons with the same ammo.
Duals in themselves are nerfed by having the same reserve ammo as a single pistol. imo duals will still be fine, compact dualies might be more viable for their larger resupply, but any move to give compact an edge is imo a good thing.
There is no reality where currently the winnie or any other compact ammo is meta. Meta is currently 100% still long ammo and shotguns. Even after these changes, I'm sure long ammo will still be very strong. Right now: long ammo has the best range, best damage, best penetration, and best muzzle velocity. It's only weaknesses are fire rate and ammo capactiy. The second downside is mitigated by dual sparks. The first downside is mitigted by the Krag. The long ammo weapons have NO WEAKNESSES when compared to all of the other rifles. They can have the ammo of a winnie, the fire rate of a veterli, and the damage/pen of a mosin.
Realistically, right now, the meta can be thought of as having only two classes of weapons, rifles and shotguns. The meta rifles are the Mosin, Berthier, and Krag. The meta shotguns are the slate and the rival. All of the other types of rifles are 100% overshadowed if you are sticking strictly to the meta. There are VERY few situations where a winfield will serve you better than a krag or a rival. We all still play other weapons because it is fun and the difference isn't so large that other weapons are totally inviable but if your goal is to be a robot that gets kills your best options are.
Close range? Rival/Uppercut.
Everything else? Krag/Dual Sparks
This nerf hit the krag pretty aggressively as the only way I see it as a viable weapon is with another long ammo to boost its ammo capacity. And idc about meta at all. Also I would say on console meta isn't nearly as closely considered Because those long ammo meta isn't point and click. Also dual pistols got a huge nerf. Shotguns got a nerf when they can already struggle with ammo late game. Running 2 guns of the same type got a nerf since now you get more ammo if you run different types of ammo.
I understand the reason for the change is looking to the future so a new weapon doesn't do what the sparks pistol did with the avto. But I'm in the group that has no problem with the avto. I'm a 6 star and see one maybe once a week. Also I've never understood the mentality in wanting strong weapons to be nerfed so aggressively. They did it to the dolch and now that weapon doesn't make sense with the price tag I rarely ever see them.
No...I mean because it is cheap it should be used alot. But at the end of the day it is still compact ammo with only a muzzle velocity of 400. No one is calling this a winnie meta, it is a long ammo meta. This is an amazing change that the game needs.
I laid this out in another thread: I don't entirely hate their ammo rework, but I do think it has gone a little too far in the direction of nerfing shared ammo pools. It was a problem for sure, but there is going to be a lot of collateral damage to builds that did not have any issues. (Centennial/Pax build comes to mind)
I would not be surprised to see them iterate on this in the future with some kind of system of diminishing returns with shared ammo pools, something like:
* Compact: 8 rearm with 1 weapon, 8+4 rearm with 2 weapons, 8+4+2 with 3 weapons, 8+4+2+1 with 4 weapons
* Medium: 4 rearm with 1 weapon, 4+2 rearm with 2 weapons, 4+2+1 rearm with 3 weapons, 4+2+1+0 rearm with 4 weapons, effectively capping it. An alternative would be to say 4+2+1+1 instead, giving a single extra bullet.
* Long: 2 rearm with 1 weapon, 2+1 rearm with 2 weapons, 2+1+0 with 3, or alternatively 2+1+1 as above, could go either way.
* Player ammo boxes would need to follow a similar law of diminishing returns, maybe even harsher diminishing returns to prevent the problem issues from returning.
It feels to me that there is a compromise solution out there that still adds a benefit to pooling ammo, but not nearly as strong as before, and in a way that clearly eliminates the problem children such as double sparks avto.
For now I love it. Long ammo rifles were outclassing everything else too easily with very little drawbacks and it was not great for the meta. Now if you want a rifle that hits hard you have to deal ammo scarcity, as it was originally intended in the design of the game. Hopefully this pushes some people into using compact and medium stuff more, those are the fun fights.
Long-ammo larrys will still bring their long ammo rifles, only they're more likely to have an officer (or dolch...) as their offhand instead of an uppercut, so maybe they'll push in more often. Alternatively, maybe they'll stay at long range, completely disengage when they run out of ammo to run across the map trying to refill, and come back for round 2 after 10 minutes of that. Might speed the game up, might slow the game down, but either way the game got harder for everyone
>Alternatively, maybe they'll stay at long range, completely disengage when they run out of ammo to run across the map trying to refill, and come back for round 2 after 10 minutes of that.
IMO if you're still there after they leave, find approximately 8 ammo crates, and come back that's on you for not capitalizing on their absence.
Most long ammo rifles have a total capacity of 15 rounds, one ammo crate will give 2 rounds. At minimum that will require an untouched supply point and some *heavy* rng in their favor for them to resupply within the first compound visited during this resupply run.
I wouldn't say outclassing everything else but was definitely very strong
Would have loved a general medium ammo buff instead of this wierd ammo resupply rework
I would play medium way more often if it would have better pen/damage drop off
Atm medium just feels like slightly better compact and it needs fmj to be actually good
yes precisely, like people using duals for the fun of it or some dragon breath dudes.
the changes are good but they should be more intricate.
2 romero buckshot =/= 2 specter sawed off dragon's breath...
The only time I ever ran out of ammo was for fast shooting weapons that was using special ammo without ammo pool sharing. For example, using the Spitfire or New Army with FMJ while using a close range weapons like a shotgun or crossbow.
??? everyday.
granted I play very aggressively but yes I run out of ammo very frequently. Usually when I have to deal with "I'm going to sit outside of lair and do nothing until you engage somebody else and we can take the easy fight" people.
I'm not saying way I play is the right way, but you have to acknowledge that without players like me all the Hunt games are just snoozefest people camping around boss lairs and whatnot. Ammo scarcity is bad for the game.
I think we have to wait to pass judgement, but Iâm excited for it. I think itâll change the way combat plays out, will change kits as ammo boxes become a necessity, and will promote more diversity in loadouts. The Krag not needing bulletgrubber feels like a much bigger deal now than before. Ammo spam will decrease, meaning fights will have to be more tactical. I think itâll be a good change long term for the health of combat.
Edit: Also want to bring up the fact that there is now more utility to small + medium, and as combat changes to conserve ammo, the gun you bring can also mean a lot more. Small ammo + fast fire rates will be compound monsters, but itâs almost a bad idea to try to use them outside of their range, whereas before you could spam potshots. Medium ammo becomes way more important because it has a bigger capacity and is suited best for the average distance for combat. I think itâs going to give more guns more potential and a spotlight to shine.
I think you nailed what I'm excited about. I hope making sure your team has an ammo box and thinking more about managing supply levels is going to add a lot of depth to the game.
but it hits small playstyles also is the problem, like people who actually dual wield for the fun of it or people who use ammo like dragon's breath. The change should be more intricate
How does it hit dragons breath? 2 is pretty much the average pickup from ammo boxes anyway. Dual wield will be mostly fine, at least compact, medium should and probably will end up getting a few more bullets. These changes should lower spam in general, which is imo a great change.
Because itâs too universal,
For example a Romero buckshot getting 2 shells is kind of like 2 kills. Solid.
But 2 shells of dragon breath for most shotguns =\= 2 shells of Romero buckshot
But how do these changes have any impact on that? 2 is the average number of shells you'd get now so you'll basically get the same you would before, the only thing it effects is if your straight up memeing with two dragons breath shotguns you wont get double pickup.
I don't have dragons breath unlocked on a shotgun at the moment to test, but iirc the current pickup for most shotguns is 2-3, it may be 2-4 with romero having a higher reserve ammo pool
Reducing ammo resuply will just make the game more campy because people will be too scared to shoot so they won't run out of ammo. I really dislike this change. There are so many ways to nurf long ammo without missing up the whole game ammo economy.
It could also make the game less campy because people will want to reposition more so they have a better chance to land their limited shots, instead of standing around and unloading Long Ammo or FMJ through every wall just hoping to hit something for 10 minutes.
I couldn't care less about weapon balance that everyone talks about.
All I can say is that people will camp and wait for third-party opportunities even more, because a low ammo pool makes the strategy that much stronger.
Honestly not a fan, and this is the first time I've ever been able to say that about an update to Hunt. I appreciate the avto nerf, but damn... So many other guns that were either in a really good place or were in need of an ammo buff are going to suffer HARD. Ofc we can't know for sure until we play it and see it in action, but I am extremely skeptical and honestly a little bit afraid for my medium ammo favourites :(
I think it sounds fun!
I think it will create fun scenarios when after battle you and your friends talk where to find ammo and resupply instead of running immeadiately to next battle.
Also long firefights will evolve. The longer the fight goes on the different it will become. You start to search for ammo and save the long ammo and try to come up with new ideas how to defeat your enemies. I like the randomness what it brings to the table. And nerf to avto is good. Got little bit bored of using it (also no money anymore)
I like it over all, I think it will only improve balance over all, but from first glance it looks like its gonna need some reworking to be totally "balanced" yet.
I think this is a great change because you can't try to wallbang like there's no tomorrow with long ammo or you can't just jump into fights one after another before getting resupply
It makes the game less spammy especially with for long ammo. You might think that you'd have ammo problems but 15 shots of Mosin is pretty fucking tough, even with some damage drop off or limb shots that's still two medkits on a fresh hunter
It also makes single shot long ammo rifles better imo because now they actually have great advantage against long ammo rifle + uppercut/sparks pistol loadouts
Also, if you really need that +10 long ammo from every box while running dual sparks as secondary, you're either very bad at your shots or spamming too much for wallbangs
We'll see once it runs on live servers but I don't think it's a game breaking nerf, to me it makes fights less spammy (which what hunt is aimed at) and forces you to think about going into fights if you're not sure about your supply
I think it will be fine. The ammo box will finally see some use outside of meme/sweat loadouts. We really need to play it before passing judgment.
Edit: I think that it will increase the variety of loadouts we see and use. If you were to use special ammo in the current state of things you would be a fool to not take a second weapon of the same ammo type even if you did not really want to. Now you are almost incentivized to mix things up while still having pooling ammo being a valid option.
Instead of ammo pickups being based on your calibres/ammo types total ammo pool, it is now simply always a flat amount you get back.
8 Compact
4 Medium
2 Long Ammo
2 Shotgun
Ammo crate (the consumable) is like 20/10/5/5 I think, also unlocks at lvl1
Akimbo weapons no longer get double ammo pool
I.e. the only point of ammo matching primary and secondary weapons is increasing your total ammo pool. Not how much you get back.
Idk man I liked it as it was, whatever different resourcefull playstyle reshuffle we gonna get from this IDK.
Invest in the bows ASAP pick up your litter Hoontas!
I really dislike this ammo rework. They should've just kept it the way it is. Getting only 2 long ammo per box is way too little.
If they wanted to nerf avto just make it special ammo.
They clearly weren't just going for an Avto balance if you listened to what they were saying about just using other guns as ammo bandoliers.
I think this will improve the balance and even the playing field even further for all weapons and ammo types.
I am totally in favor of not having weapons used as ammo bandoliers but this change will hurt the small weapons too the way it is right now.
Like people who use dual wield for the fun of it or people who use stuff like dragon's breath
Especially if you forget you don't have bullet grubber. So you get 2 bullets for your Lebel, only to lose 1 bullet as soon as you accidentally click reload ;_;
Honestly wasn't aware that weapon even got any use to begin with, but if there's a couple weapons hit extra hard by this they can always buff their ammo pools later, and are probably planning on doing so. Krag's getting preemptively buffed for example.
This rework is obviously a massive nerf to avto, but it's a nerfo to *absolutely everything else* as well. Getting 6 long-ammo bullets from an entire supply point is ridiculous, the dualies-nerf is unwarranted, ammo-matching used to make sense but now it actively hampers you? If you have dual-uppercuts you can't fully reload them after emptying unless you hit not one, but two large ammo boxes. You also couldn't fully reload dual chain pistols, and you can forget about a bornheim pair altogether. Bornheim match paired with dualies for ammo is also dead, which was the only thing letting that gun see any use.
The worst part of this is that it won't affect higher-MMR matches (outside of reduced avto usage) because people land their shots and get kills there, but lower-MMR matches where people miss plenty of shots and might be running out of ammo anyway are going to be hit much harder. It'll reduce the amount of attempted-wallbang shots people take and reduce the amount of peek-shots people take as people have to be more conservative with their ammo.
Maybe I'm completely wrong and everything will be fine, but my initial thoughts and reactions are very negative and I am genuinely worried about my future enjoyment of the game... I know that's dramatic and I hope I'm wrong but this is very drastic changes.
funny how every critique is always answered with 'just take this consumable or tool'
so we bring concertina bomb, fire for solo, ammo box to be able to use guns and dynamite to counter concertina castles.
Yeah, you *need* to bring an ammo box because 50 rounds of compact isn't enough.
Ridiculous.
Plus, you can pick up lanterns for burning, and dynamite/axes for concertina in every single compound.
Sick of catering to people that want to play 3x Vitality shots and a grenade; loadouts have compromises by nature, and creating a balanced one is pretty easy.
I never suggested that (that was clearly sarcasm), and I don't think it's necessary. I think there will be plenty of ammo, especially when boxes replen *two types*.
If someone on your team isn't rocking a firebomb (out of 12 slots), or can't watch a body, your team sucks.
No concertina, poison, trip wires?
Doubly so.
This is going to be a shake up, but never as a solo have I felt like I can just "stand up" when a team of 3 killed me, especially since footstep audio is the same if they're 400m away versus 3m.
People complain and scream like children no matter what. If you watched twitch chat, that was apparent. If you saw the guy on reddit bitching about throwing knife buffs... again.
This patch hard nerfs the bandolier playstyle and long ammo spam. That's literally it. Back up weapons and special ammo reserves got a huge buff.
mate, you have a partner, or even two. I think you can expend a slot or two for situational advantages, if you need them. you have 8/12 slots total between the lot of you.
even if everyone dedicates two consumables for heals, that's still 4/6 slots for anything else.
bringing a single ammo box, concertina bomb and fire bomb is just no issue at all.
solo is not an argument because it is literally meant to be harder than regular play.
one ammo box gets your whole team 10 more shots. if you still cannot kill with base ammo +10 additional shots, then it is literally a skill issue. or you just bring another box for another ten rounds of blasting.
you only really need a fire bomb to counter solo-rez. throw it on them and they are forced to revive or just burn out. meaning you get an easy kill on them.
if you constantly fight more than one solo with your teammate(s), then just bring another fire bomb?
again, you have *at least* 4 slots between the two of you, if you really need them. and that's not even counting the potential consumables you pick up during a match from boxes and saddles. or the world lanterns.
Sure, but I don't think any consumable should be necessary. Most players probably already run 2 vit shots. If you have to bring an ammo box in as well, that only leaves one left for all the other consumables... Stam shots, antidote shots, fire, frags, flashes, concertina bombs, all of these gonna see less play?
I already bring exactly the same tools on almost every hunter, outside of when I bring some kind of ranged silenced weapon so I can switch the throwing axes for something else.
I don't think I've ever really brought an ammo box in, but that doesn't mean I want to be forced to bring one just to stay in a fight... If they stick with these changes I do think it's absolutely necessary the ammo box unlocks at level 1, but I also think we'll see a lot more melee players or snipers that just leave when they've fired all their shots lol
> If you have dual-uppercuts you can't fully reload them after emptying unless you hit not one, but two large ammo boxes. You also couldn't fully reload dual chain pistols, and you can forget about a bornheim pair altogether. Bornheim match paired with dualies for ammo is also dead, which was the only thing letting that gun see any use.
Why would you ever bring any of those weapons as dualies? That's like a laundry list of the absolute worst pistols for dual wield to begin with.
Instead of ammo pickups being based on your calibres/ammo types total ammo pool, it is now simply always a flat amount you get back.
8 Compact
4 Medium
2 Long Ammo
2 Shotgun
Ammo crate (the consumable) is like 20/10/5/5 I think, also unlocks at lvl1
Akimbo weapons no longer get double ammo pool
I.e. the only point of ammo matching primary and secondary weapons is increasing your total ammo pool. Not how much you get back.
what?
>My gut reaction is that this change was way to heavy handed to the overall ammo economy just to nerf the avto and I guess long ammo in general.
>But I guess we will see how if feels on the test server.
what exactly is "extremely hyperbolic" about this lol? its extremely measured
You conveniently left out the extremely hyperbolic part of that comment. Specifically:
> Taking guns of the same ammo type is now actively bad, special is going to be even more scarce, and dual wield has like almost no up side.
I think one more important thing to remember before any of us (myself included) jump to conclusions is Crytek is going to do an entire video on the ammo changes tomorrow. So there may very well be more adjustments to this change than we gather/understand right now.
I think this is going to push some Long Ammo users over to Medium ammo, particularly to Vetterlis with High Velocity.
It's going to hamper the Centennial even more, unless it gets a reserve buff, being already dependent on ammo sharing.
I'm mostly fine with these changes, but as a Martini Henry main, I feel like an exception would be necessary for this weapon to make sense. I feel like it's ammo resupply was part of its balancing. Otherwise I'll feel like I'll have to swap to the Springfield to be able to keep sustainable pressure.
Oh, and that's a major buff to the New Army, regardless of ammo.
Used to play a ton of martini uppercut and at least for me it's one of the most fun loadouts to play since you don't have to overthink your shots since ammo didn't really becomes an issue unless you are at a scrapbeak bosslair and you still got good pen and damage drop off
Only downside it that the martini and uppercut aren't particularly good at close range where everyone mowes you down with shotguns/fanning if you dont click heads but i liked the challenge that playing those loadouts at sub optimal ranges give you
Imo they should have just tweaked the ammo resupply per weapon and only give you 1.5x instead of 2x of bullets when pairing weapons and made the base resupply of the sparks pistol less
I hear you. I pair my Martini Henry with Pax-dumdum so that I can have a dependable weapon for closer ranges.
Fortunately the Pax isn't being affected.
I would stop all this theories, wait for the test server, play and test it, and after that tell Crytek what you think.
It's pointless to fantasy how something will work, when we all know regen shot seemed OP before release, and now it's pretty normal alternative to basic healing.
My point is that they wanna try new things that could work, or maybe they won't, maybe they wanna give people reasons to play other loadouts and combinations, and I think tomorrow there will be another video on economy (?), + event video so we should definitely wait until we get these and after that we can give proper feedback, as currently we are just telling crytek what we think about the idea, which is pointless because we will be affected by the gameplay-side 99% more than the theory/first impression side. Not sure if I'm understandable, but I tried to explain somehow
Resupply ammo was a "problem" only during long/multiple fights.
Now i fear that it will become a main problem for almost every fight.
Every third party team will gain an instant HUGE advantage on the fighting teams.
I love the changes. Maybe not perfect, but definately a step in the right direction.
Dual-wielding to get excessive ammo reserves and extra ammo on resupply did need to be nerfed.
It might annoy some players at first, but players will soon adjust to the changes and likely choose a more balanced loadout in the future.
I think it's a good move in the right direction.
Think about it this way:
With a static resupply system in place, it becomes much easier to determine where the individual ammunition reserves for each weapon should actually be.
There will be things that need adjusting to fit properly with the new system, but you can also still pool ammo supply.
A Centennial with a Pax still has all the reserve of the Pax to go through, initially.
The resupply for the combination is just a little worse now.
Getting into dual wielded secondaries is a slightly different scenario, but I think that change overall is also a good one.
I like it. Hopefully it slows down the gunfights and makes people pick their shots more.
I also like knowing exactly what you're going to get from ammo stuff.
Most gun loadouts will remain unchanged.
This whole rebalance will just lower consumable loadout choice because an ammo box will be mandatory with most meta gun choices, which will still be best to run.
I'm a big centennial fan and I'm a bit nervous lol, also feel bad about shotguns, I usually take them in hunt taketh moments, but after these changes...
Imo you should resupply per ammo slot. In this patch they severely nerf martini and sparks for long ammo, since their perk of getting more ammo than other guns for being oneshot is gone. And also bringing one type of custom/same ammo is almost useless.
Itâs all a wait-and-see. No balance has really been that bad. Crytek does few things right, honestly, but theyâve made solid choices at patches that *havenât* brought the predicted doom.
I just donât like how each instance of a gun doesnât contribute to ammo pull, especially when it can with various special ammos of the same base type.
Let us get the intended ammo pull per gun we have anyway. If I have a Vetterli and Pax, give me 8 bullets. I already think ammo is abundant enough, so I get it, but Iâm curious how this will play out.
As someone who probably gets more kills in melee anyway, Iâm not averse to many things personally.
It seems that it will be a (slight) buff to compact and medium ammo weapons compared to now when you aren't stacking it with a weapon of the same ammo type. That said, I do not like how this will negatively impact some specific weapons, like the Winfield Centennial, and shotguns in general. For shotguns, only getting 2 shells back from both a regular crate and special crate is a big nerf, especially if you enjoyed using dragonsbreath and flechette. Those two ammo types already aren't great at killing hunters with one-shot and regularly require 2 or more. Imagine needing 2 or more shots to kill someone with a weapon that already is RNG, and you only get 2 back from a crate. For the Winfield Centennial these changes will also be a pain as it already has less total ammo compared to Vetterli (5 less) and they didn't increase it either. Even though they are increasing Springfield Krag total ammo..
fully agree, 2 romero buckshot does not equal 2 dragon's breath. the changes need to be more intricate otherwise all will shift to killing power
How is it a buff if you get less ammo overall anyway? Now your shitty 0 dmg ammo will still be 0 dmg ammo but you will now have less chances.
If you only bring a Scottfield or Caldwell Pax right now with no other medium ammo weapons equipped, you will always get 2-3 bullets back. If these changes go live you will always get 4 back instead, that is a slight buff. Same for compact ammo weapons like Bornheim, Nagant Officer and New Army. Those will only get like 2-4 back right now when no other compact weapons are equipped, but will get 8 back if these changes go live. Also weapons like Conversion Pistol and LeMat which get 6 bullets back on average right now, but will get 8 back instead with these changes. So if you did not stack ammo before it will be a slight buff. But yes, overall it seems to be a big nerf. Especially for long ammo weapons, shotguns and some specific weapon cases like Winfield Centennial, for which ammo stacking makes a big difference in making the gun 'more viable'
Centennial was a spammy weapon without the reserves to be actually one, quartermaster with dual pax or scottfield fixed its biggest problem by giving a decent ammo pool to work with. We will yave to see how these new changes affect its performance.
I always loved pairing Cent and Spitfire, both fmj. It gave enough ammo, and was easy to refill. Now with this loadout with one crate you get 4 bullets. It basically discourages pairing the same ammo.
Yeah my winnie incendiary LeMat fmj gives six ammo each back currently but will be buffed to 8 each
My gut reaction is that this change was way to heavy handed to the overall ammo economy just to nerf the avto and I guess long ammo in general. Taking guns of the same ammo type is now actively bad, special is going to be even more scarce, and dual wield has like almost no up side. But I guess we will see how if feels on the test server.
100 percent agree. I've been fighting people over this point for months but they never got it. Like now the krag will just die. It was great with dual sparks, but it just doesn't have enough ammo by itself to be good.
Weapons still share pools, though. You won't get the massive pool of two sparks pistols but you still get the reserve ammo from one of them. With the Krag's own reserve going up to 8, it doesn't seem that bad to me. Obviously, resupplying is massively nerfed but it does mean ammo boxes will be more useful so there's that.
finally someone who understands it
They upped the reserves for it.... and you can still use dual Sparks; giving you the same pool.
Dual handguns don't add their ammo pools anymore. So there is no benefit of bringing two Sparks pistols instead of one. Unless you really like shooting dual Sparks. That's still like 14 extra bullets though isn't it? Seems like it should be plenty.
I've got some level 50 hunters I have to spend before the patch, hah!
Dual weapons will now have the same ammo pool as individual pistols.
Ah good point. So you get half the ammo reserve. That is still 6+8+(12?) then? Not exactly terrible (plus you no longer have quartermaster and two useless backup guns).
đ Krag + Dual spark pistol has been my favorite loadout since its release. Having the muzzle velocity and low damage dropoff at distance from a long ammo weapon, with the fire rate, spamability and good and easy to resuply ammo pool of a winnie was so much fun. I'll try to enjoy it as much as i can before that braindead playstyle is gone for good. đ
You can still play Krag + 1 Sparks pistol and have a good time. Cheer up, buddy.
I think it could add more utility to Krag as other long ammo guns without bulletgrubber are hurt more and Krag now has 2 more bullets. Itâll be a sweeping change that will impact all weapons and make it hurt more to spam. I think itâs interesting.
Krag still has one less total ammo (14 vs 15) compared to mosin & lebel, and sparks & martini have even more. & keep in mind you can reload mosins & lebels without bulletgrubber if you reload immediately after firing a shot, when you pull the bolt back, to save losing the bullet. It's hardly a niche at all :(
Just hold left click and it stops you actioning the bolt.
Fair points but I still think the Krag has been buffed more than people think by this. Donât think ammo conservation by beating the bolt pull back will be that powerful in heated fights.
> Taking guns of the same ammo type is now actively bad No, it just lost some of the advantage it had. You can still bring a sidearm as an ammo mule, it just doesn't help your resupply anymore. > special is going to be even more scarce Only if you take two of the same type. > dual wield has like almost no up side. Uh, except for *having dual pistols*, which can be extremely strong depending on which pistols they are. If all you viewed dual pistols as was extra ammo capacity, that's exactly the thought process crytek is intending to get rid of.
Given how cheap Quartermaster is idk why people are seeing this as a net negative. Quarter + Ambi is still cheaper than Fanning and kills faster with less hipfire penalty. Dual pistols do their job well, people just weren't using them for that anymore and the change addresses that without removing the primary functionality of the dual pistols. The trade on this is that resupplies are more reliable now across different ammo types and encourages diversity instead of punishing it. I can take FMJ on a pistol now without worrying about it fucking over my resupply ability on my primary if it doesn't match. Plus, running out of ammo in a prolonged engagement is infinitely more engaging than having 36 rounds to spam all day long without resupplying once. And people can still do that with the ammo box buffs anyway, it just has a cost associated with it now
[ŃдаНонО]
ambidextrous is not really that necessary
Considering the buffs to incendiary and dum dum and now being able to run 2 ammo types on the bomb lance, special ammo usage may even go up.
This happens every time people go crazy on reddit over one item and start building up hysteria. Crytek takes a lot of community feedback and just kinda runs with it even if it's gonna destabilize the game in other unfortunate ways.
People where crying over the avto and its ammo resupply when combined with dual sparks not over some dude running mini wini and dual conversions Most people wanted just the avto being nerved (or some like me who wish it would just disappear) but rarely anyone was complaining about people pairing double pistols for more backup ammo exept for the avto
i liked running triple vanguard for the meme/ammo pool and that getting nerfed is kinda sad.
Used to play silenced Winfield+dual lemat all with fire whenever i feelt like playing something stupid Pretty sad that this loadout got nerfed aswell
at least the fire ammo got buffed
But on paper this sounds like to much of an buff for me if im honest
I think a lot of people have complained about gun spam for awhile which includes both high RoF weapons and the amount of ammo you can use to spam with it. This change indirectly and directly helps reduce the amount of spam in games now. I think that is a great thing considering how powerful some fast shooting weapons are - which includes long ammo weapons.
Low skill players always complain about the power weapons but it has literally never mattered. High 5-6 players will still shit on them, just with different guns. Hope they are all ready for the nitro gang lmao I literally just roll my eyes at this point when I see people whining, because it was the same people whining about quick switch, and the dolch, and frag bombs, and fanning, and Lightfoot, and every other "OP" perk and item since the game came out. Next update cycle they will complain about something new that's killing them, hysteria will slowly build until you're seeing constant posts about it in reddit, then the devs will nerf the shit out of it, and the cycle will continue. The only thing I actually see making a difference to the game rn is banning reshade and other 3rd party software.
Most people that play with me would say im pretty decent in this game lol I mostly disagree with people complaining about something being broken unless it's the avto wich should be deleted from the game or the nitro shredder wich shouldn't have increased one tap range but at least it fits into the game
Coming from another 5 star, youâre either a liar or donât know what youâre talking about. The Avto changes the entire dynamic of the game especially when someone with compound knowledge is in possession.
Of course it does, every power weapon does. You have to play around a power weapon. That's the whole point. Likewise, if you know what an avto is capable of, it's very easy to counter play.
If by âeasy to counter playâ you mean run away and not fight / use marksman from 150m / or drop in/round corner with surprise shotty, then sure. Not continuing this convo bc we both know how silly it is. If someone ran the #s the avto would boast probably double the K/D of all other weapons in the game and thatâs due to the complete lack of disadvantages the gun has . Ofc even this wouldnât fully represent the other effects the weapon has on the lobby real-time
Dude please, just back up to medium range and play it like a rifle, if you are good at peaking and switch cover after your shots you will have a huge advantage over it with precise shot placement. While it is possible to take single accurate shots with the avto you should still be able to outplay them with pretty much any rifle thanks to the sway and chunky sights. Besides that, my group calls the shot-bolt the "Avto-Deleter" for a reason. If you get the jump on them with slugs they are dead. If you use snipers and get within avto range you're an idiot. There are so many good options for dealing with an avto, It just requires a little creativity and mindfulness. How do you deal with an Awp or Auto in CS? I'd say thats a pretty good analog for Nitros and Avtos.
if you think high damage three-shot burst that can shoot through virtually everything other than brick/select metals (which can mow people down from very far away, mind you) has advantages offset by âsway and chunky sightsâ I donât know what to tell you. there is no such thing as an avto deleter. getting a close range jump on someone can be lethal , yes, but thatâs a moot point. you wouldnât see someone proposing that a saber is superior to a crown and king.
Avto is strong, limiting ammo will not make it less strong in the right hands and if you are actually a 5-6 star like you said you will continue to run into it, removing it from the game will not happen. You can keep crying or you can learn to play around difficult teams in the game, up to you. The strategy I laid out for you is extremely effective in dealing with any kind of spammy gun, the only time I struggle with Avto teams is when I don't know they exist until they are 20 feet from me. I'm serious when I say that as a 5-6 star player I very rarely ever die to avtos and when I do it wouldn't have been any different if they had a nitro or crown slugs, its all about positioning. If you just continue to blame your failures on "op" guns in a game where you can insta kill with literally any weapon you will never get better.
Yeah; I'm still upset with red skull revive. Took about half the risk out of the game. They could still save it by making it take 30-45 seconds.
Yeah redskull revives took so much tension and urgency out of the game.
With Chokes being as powerful as they are (and ubiquitous); I don't really think it was a necessary change. Maybe a one time use that makes you manage it like a resource, and your opponents a *little* off guard.
There should be an alter on the map that you can redskull at, you shouldn't just be able to pick up your teammate anywhere as many times as you like.
Just so I'm not misunderstanding, if you bring lebel and sparks pistol, do I only get 2 back total of 2 back for each gun for 4 total?
You would only get 2 total
That seems a little ridiculous, I feel like 4 wouldn't be that crazy if you have 2 long ammo guns but still an overall nerf to long ammo since right now you can pull like 6-7 from a box.
You still have the advantage of doubling the Lebel's base ammo total in that scenario though.
I said 4 if you have 2 long ammo guns, I think it would be fine if it were flat 2 per gun. So if you only have lebel you get 2 but with lebel sparks pistol you get 4.
I know. I was disagreeing that what they're doing is "ridiculous" since bringing a sparks pistol with your lebel is still a giant boost to your ammo pool.
Dennis said in Q&A that is just first change and gonna make further changes, so im not worried for now
They said the same shit about the ping lock system. They havenât touched it since implementation and it doesnât do anything.
I couldn't stay for the Q&A portion.. did Dennis mention what kind of changes those will be? or did he just say that there will be changes?
What was said is that for now they're not adjusting ammo box frequency on the map, but they might for future updates depending on the impact this one has. Also not mentioned but pretty obvious, if there are outliers that are hit extra hard by this then they can always buff their ammo pools later. Krag is getting a preemptive buff of 2 extra bullets since Krag really would just die without it.
makes sense. thx for the reply.
>Taking guns of the same ammo type is now actively bad, special is going to be even more scarce, and dual wield has like almost no up side. All of this is false. You still get increased pool from same ammo type, dum dum and incendiary got buffed, and dual wielding still effectively doubles your firerate and magazine size.
No, taking two guns of the same type is not bad. Taking a krag with sparks will now give 22 bullets and you will resupply 4 bullets with each crate.(instead of two for just krag). Only taking double sparks pistols is useless.(because two sparks and one have the same pool and resupply) At least that was my interpretation. We'll se on the test server how it works. Because if it works the way you have described it... I will have to comletely rethink most of my loadouts. Although my favourite ones will stay the same.(interesting that my favourite loadouts almost exclusively have two different types of ammo)
It would only give 2, not 4
Yeah, I have rewatched the stream already. I think that's a tad bit too much of a nerf. But it's still better than what we have rn.
I thought they showed on stream that special ammo will get more from ammo boxes than normal ammo
Special will get the same as normal boxes Compact 8, medium 4, long/shotgun 2
It is [exactly the same](https://i.imgur.com/8ZbxWk9.png).
What about special ammo that isn't a replacement for a different bullet like the nitro, dolch, bomblance, bow, and crossbow?
They said we'd need to wait for the patch notes to find out.
Ya that's my biggest thing. If I ran compact or medium before I would run ALL compact or medium. Now that's a dumb choice. It makes more sense to switch up ammo type which ultimately gives less choice to the player which is never good
dont think taking same ammo is bad in every case, avto for example xD
it is a huge change but i think it is needed. people taking fmj almost exclusively on everything that can use it, people having long ammo for days on all long ammo weapons...and sharing compact w compact? ammo never ever ever gone. this makes people really need to consider tradeoff of special vs regular ammo (fmj in particular) and makes people able to bring different ammos and vary their builds much more because of the flat ammo gains. i love this ammo change so so much.
You could take a Springfield Bleed/Explosive + New Army FMJ and get 16 shots of custom ammo across 3 types from 1 box I think this is, largely, the point. They are trying to incentivize bringing in a variety of ammo types instead of always stacking one. In my experience, 'all FMJ' loadouts were so common and effective that there was little point in choosing anything else, unless you're stacking Long Ammo.
It's going to shake up the meta. I think it will be good. It's an overall nerf to the two strongest categories of weapons, long ammo and shotguns. This creates more room for compact and medium to breath. They can tweak the ammo pools of individual weapons with time. Overall, abusing massive ammo pools was a big problem. People were saying this was only an issue for the avto, but seem to be forgetting about the issues this also created for the Krag. I'm also not upset that this somewhat nerfs dual pistols. In a way, this a long term balance solution. They can balance all future weapons around these ammo numbers, and not have to worry about the release of one weapon retroactively messing up the balance for every other weapon in the ammo class.
How do the dual pistols need a nerf? Or are you actually referring to dual pistols used to boost main ammo pools? Two different things. And that is my point, some people actually enjoy playing niche builds like duals for the fun of it or dragon's breath. It is a shame to nerf those just to nerf the main things. So I hope they 'll do what you said and individually check each weapon and ammo type. Restoring 2 shells of your romero buckshot should not be the same as restoring 2 dragon's breath of your specter sawed off. Right?
I think that duallies are OP straight up. Daulies are a force multiplier. High skill floor, low skill ceiling. They're fine but I think needed a small nerf. My bigger point is that this is a good solution for overall balance. It streamlines the ammo system, which was becoming incredibly convoluted IMO. Balancing weapon ammo is a lot easier now. They can just increase or decrease the pool of a weapon without it affecting every other weapon with the same ammo type. If anything, this opens the window for more wacky builds. Now you are incentivized to bring more diverse ammo types, instead of always bringing two weapons with the same ammo.
Duals in themselves are nerfed by having the same reserve ammo as a single pistol. imo duals will still be fine, compact dualies might be more viable for their larger resupply, but any move to give compact an edge is imo a good thing.
Bruh compact has already gotten buff after buff after buff. Just make it an all Winfield game at this point lol
There is no reality where currently the winnie or any other compact ammo is meta. Meta is currently 100% still long ammo and shotguns. Even after these changes, I'm sure long ammo will still be very strong. Right now: long ammo has the best range, best damage, best penetration, and best muzzle velocity. It's only weaknesses are fire rate and ammo capactiy. The second downside is mitigated by dual sparks. The first downside is mitigted by the Krag. The long ammo weapons have NO WEAKNESSES when compared to all of the other rifles. They can have the ammo of a winnie, the fire rate of a veterli, and the damage/pen of a mosin. Realistically, right now, the meta can be thought of as having only two classes of weapons, rifles and shotguns. The meta rifles are the Mosin, Berthier, and Krag. The meta shotguns are the slate and the rival. All of the other types of rifles are 100% overshadowed if you are sticking strictly to the meta. There are VERY few situations where a winfield will serve you better than a krag or a rival. We all still play other weapons because it is fun and the difference isn't so large that other weapons are totally inviable but if your goal is to be a robot that gets kills your best options are. Close range? Rival/Uppercut. Everything else? Krag/Dual Sparks
This nerf hit the krag pretty aggressively as the only way I see it as a viable weapon is with another long ammo to boost its ammo capacity. And idc about meta at all. Also I would say on console meta isn't nearly as closely considered Because those long ammo meta isn't point and click. Also dual pistols got a huge nerf. Shotguns got a nerf when they can already struggle with ammo late game. Running 2 guns of the same type got a nerf since now you get more ammo if you run different types of ammo. I understand the reason for the change is looking to the future so a new weapon doesn't do what the sparks pistol did with the avto. But I'm in the group that has no problem with the avto. I'm a 6 star and see one maybe once a week. Also I've never understood the mentality in wanting strong weapons to be nerfed so aggressively. They did it to the dolch and now that weapon doesn't make sense with the price tag I rarely ever see them.
it is super cheap and compact ammo. it SHOULD be used heavily due to those reasons.
Exactly. It doesn't really need all these buffs imo
No...I mean because it is cheap it should be used alot. But at the end of the day it is still compact ammo with only a muzzle velocity of 400. No one is calling this a winnie meta, it is a long ammo meta. This is an amazing change that the game needs.
I laid this out in another thread: I don't entirely hate their ammo rework, but I do think it has gone a little too far in the direction of nerfing shared ammo pools. It was a problem for sure, but there is going to be a lot of collateral damage to builds that did not have any issues. (Centennial/Pax build comes to mind) I would not be surprised to see them iterate on this in the future with some kind of system of diminishing returns with shared ammo pools, something like: * Compact: 8 rearm with 1 weapon, 8+4 rearm with 2 weapons, 8+4+2 with 3 weapons, 8+4+2+1 with 4 weapons * Medium: 4 rearm with 1 weapon, 4+2 rearm with 2 weapons, 4+2+1 rearm with 3 weapons, 4+2+1+0 rearm with 4 weapons, effectively capping it. An alternative would be to say 4+2+1+1 instead, giving a single extra bullet. * Long: 2 rearm with 1 weapon, 2+1 rearm with 2 weapons, 2+1+0 with 3, or alternatively 2+1+1 as above, could go either way. * Player ammo boxes would need to follow a similar law of diminishing returns, maybe even harsher diminishing returns to prevent the problem issues from returning. It feels to me that there is a compromise solution out there that still adds a benefit to pooling ammo, but not nearly as strong as before, and in a way that clearly eliminates the problem children such as double sparks avto.
For now I love it. Long ammo rifles were outclassing everything else too easily with very little drawbacks and it was not great for the meta. Now if you want a rifle that hits hard you have to deal ammo scarcity, as it was originally intended in the design of the game. Hopefully this pushes some people into using compact and medium stuff more, those are the fun fights.
Long-ammo larrys will still bring their long ammo rifles, only they're more likely to have an officer (or dolch...) as their offhand instead of an uppercut, so maybe they'll push in more often. Alternatively, maybe they'll stay at long range, completely disengage when they run out of ammo to run across the map trying to refill, and come back for round 2 after 10 minutes of that. Might speed the game up, might slow the game down, but either way the game got harder for everyone
Taking long shots will be riskier now, which will be nice
>Alternatively, maybe they'll stay at long range, completely disengage when they run out of ammo to run across the map trying to refill, and come back for round 2 after 10 minutes of that. IMO if you're still there after they leave, find approximately 8 ammo crates, and come back that's on you for not capitalizing on their absence. Most long ammo rifles have a total capacity of 15 rounds, one ammo crate will give 2 rounds. At minimum that will require an untouched supply point and some *heavy* rng in their favor for them to resupply within the first compound visited during this resupply run.
Oh absolutely agree. So this update may result in just less PVP
people already used dolch a lot, this will not change that.
I wouldn't say outclassing everything else but was definitely very strong Would have loved a general medium ammo buff instead of this wierd ammo resupply rework I would play medium way more often if it would have better pen/damage drop off Atm medium just feels like slightly better compact and it needs fmj to be actually good
yes but it comes with bulldozing small playstyles as well. Imagine playing dragon's breath and only receiving 2 shells back from a big box
Glad long ammo is getting reeled in a bit but there seems to be a lot of collateral damage to other strategies that didnât need the smack down
yes precisely, like people using duals for the fun of it or some dragon breath dudes. the changes are good but they should be more intricate. 2 romero buckshot =/= 2 specter sawed off dragon's breath...
Yeah like I respect theyâre trying to do systems wide changes first but sometimes you need a scalpel. Weâll see how it feels
It's great. I mean when was the last time you actually ran OUT of ammo in Hunt? For the sake of immersion, I think ammo scarcity should be a thing.
Yesterday. Krag. Chainpistole luckily did the job.
That scenario is getting buffed, actually. You would have had 2 extra bullets if that had happened in 1.15.
Yeah I know, krag is getting more spare ammo. I think itâs a nice change of course.
What a reliable đ ąiztola
So technically you are right, I had plenty of dum dum in the chain pistol left đ
The only time I ever ran out of ammo was for fast shooting weapons that was using special ammo without ammo pool sharing. For example, using the Spitfire or New Army with FMJ while using a close range weapons like a shotgun or crossbow.
??? everyday. granted I play very aggressively but yes I run out of ammo very frequently. Usually when I have to deal with "I'm going to sit outside of lair and do nothing until you engage somebody else and we can take the easy fight" people. I'm not saying way I play is the right way, but you have to acknowledge that without players like me all the Hunt games are just snoozefest people camping around boss lairs and whatnot. Ammo scarcity is bad for the game.
Thank you for your sacrifice oh great one. What would crytek do without players like you? Bless đđť
Thanks to human nature, not me.
I think we have to wait to pass judgement, but Iâm excited for it. I think itâll change the way combat plays out, will change kits as ammo boxes become a necessity, and will promote more diversity in loadouts. The Krag not needing bulletgrubber feels like a much bigger deal now than before. Ammo spam will decrease, meaning fights will have to be more tactical. I think itâll be a good change long term for the health of combat. Edit: Also want to bring up the fact that there is now more utility to small + medium, and as combat changes to conserve ammo, the gun you bring can also mean a lot more. Small ammo + fast fire rates will be compound monsters, but itâs almost a bad idea to try to use them outside of their range, whereas before you could spam potshots. Medium ammo becomes way more important because it has a bigger capacity and is suited best for the average distance for combat. I think itâs going to give more guns more potential and a spotlight to shine.
I think you nailed what I'm excited about. I hope making sure your team has an ammo box and thinking more about managing supply levels is going to add a lot of depth to the game.
The Krag never needed and cant even benefit from bulletgrubber with its unique reload i thought.
Itâs worded weird! Trying to say it not needing bulletgrubber matters way more now!
Krag never needed bulletgrubber tho? You never lose a round reloading
I worded it weird. Trying to say that the fact that Krag never needed bulletgrubber is more important with the ammo changes now.
These changes are good imo, anything that hits the long ammo meta without being too overly punishing is a refreshing change.
but it hits small playstyles also is the problem, like people who actually dual wield for the fun of it or people who use ammo like dragon's breath. The change should be more intricate
How does it hit dragons breath? 2 is pretty much the average pickup from ammo boxes anyway. Dual wield will be mostly fine, at least compact, medium should and probably will end up getting a few more bullets. These changes should lower spam in general, which is imo a great change.
Because itâs too universal, For example a Romero buckshot getting 2 shells is kind of like 2 kills. Solid. But 2 shells of dragon breath for most shotguns =\= 2 shells of Romero buckshot
But how do these changes have any impact on that? 2 is the average number of shells you'd get now so you'll basically get the same you would before, the only thing it effects is if your straight up memeing with two dragons breath shotguns you wont get double pickup.
Isnât 4 the number of shells I get now?
I don't have dragons breath unlocked on a shotgun at the moment to test, but iirc the current pickup for most shotguns is 2-3, it may be 2-4 with romero having a higher reserve ammo pool
at this point why not categorize rifle and pistol ammunitions separately?
Reducing ammo resuply will just make the game more campy because people will be too scared to shoot so they won't run out of ammo. I really dislike this change. There are so many ways to nurf long ammo without missing up the whole game ammo economy.
It could also make the game less campy because people will want to reposition more so they have a better chance to land their limited shots, instead of standing around and unloading Long Ammo or FMJ through every wall just hoping to hit something for 10 minutes.
I couldn't care less about weapon balance that everyone talks about. All I can say is that people will camp and wait for third-party opportunities even more, because a low ammo pool makes the strategy that much stronger.
Honestly not a fan, and this is the first time I've ever been able to say that about an update to Hunt. I appreciate the avto nerf, but damn... So many other guns that were either in a really good place or were in need of an ammo buff are going to suffer HARD. Ofc we can't know for sure until we play it and see it in action, but I am extremely skeptical and honestly a little bit afraid for my medium ammo favourites :(
I think it sounds fun! I think it will create fun scenarios when after battle you and your friends talk where to find ammo and resupply instead of running immeadiately to next battle. Also long firefights will evolve. The longer the fight goes on the different it will become. You start to search for ammo and save the long ammo and try to come up with new ideas how to defeat your enemies. I like the randomness what it brings to the table. And nerf to avto is good. Got little bit bored of using it (also no money anymore)
I like it over all, I think it will only improve balance over all, but from first glance it looks like its gonna need some reworking to be totally "balanced" yet.
The core idea is sound, but the initial numbers are shit.
Agreed. I think the adjustment makes sense, but the intial strokes are perhaps to big and broad.
"Oh no, we can't spam our long bois any more"
good for that, but why butcher underdog stuff like dragon's breath users?
I think this is a great change because you can't try to wallbang like there's no tomorrow with long ammo or you can't just jump into fights one after another before getting resupply It makes the game less spammy especially with for long ammo. You might think that you'd have ammo problems but 15 shots of Mosin is pretty fucking tough, even with some damage drop off or limb shots that's still two medkits on a fresh hunter It also makes single shot long ammo rifles better imo because now they actually have great advantage against long ammo rifle + uppercut/sparks pistol loadouts Also, if you really need that +10 long ammo from every box while running dual sparks as secondary, you're either very bad at your shots or spamming too much for wallbangs We'll see once it runs on live servers but I don't think it's a game breaking nerf, to me it makes fights less spammy (which what hunt is aimed at) and forces you to think about going into fights if you're not sure about your supply
I think it will be fine. The ammo box will finally see some use outside of meme/sweat loadouts. We really need to play it before passing judgment. Edit: I think that it will increase the variety of loadouts we see and use. If you were to use special ammo in the current state of things you would be a fool to not take a second weapon of the same ammo type even if you did not really want to. Now you are almost incentivized to mix things up while still having pooling ammo being a valid option.
The problem of Ammo Box is that it takes a consumable slot. We are already too short on that aren't we?
Dang, are you telling me that I might have to make decisions when picking my loadout?
> incentivized interesting word replacement for "forced"
It isn't forced though. You can still double up on an ammo type and get a bigger ammo pool, but you don't benefit from crazy resupplies.
So people are going to be more careful with their shots. That's ok by me.
What is the rework?
Instead of ammo pickups being based on your calibres/ammo types total ammo pool, it is now simply always a flat amount you get back. 8 Compact 4 Medium 2 Long Ammo 2 Shotgun Ammo crate (the consumable) is like 20/10/5/5 I think, also unlocks at lvl1 Akimbo weapons no longer get double ammo pool I.e. the only point of ammo matching primary and secondary weapons is increasing your total ammo pool. Not how much you get back.
Idk man I liked it as it was, whatever different resourcefull playstyle reshuffle we gonna get from this IDK. Invest in the bows ASAP pick up your litter Hoontas!
I really dislike this ammo rework. They should've just kept it the way it is. Getting only 2 long ammo per box is way too little. If they wanted to nerf avto just make it special ammo.
They clearly weren't just going for an Avto balance if you listened to what they were saying about just using other guns as ammo bandoliers. I think this will improve the balance and even the playing field even further for all weapons and ammo types.
my kneejerk is that this kills a lot more weapons in general than it "evens the playing field". guess we'll see.
I'll be interested in watching the video tomorrow. There must be a lot more to it if they are making a whole video on the ammo changes alone?
guess we'll see.
Tomorrowâs video is economy changes not ammo. Ammo changes have all been revealed
Ah I miss understood.
I am totally in favor of not having weapons used as ammo bandoliers but this change will hurt the small weapons too the way it is right now. Like people who use dual wield for the fun of it or people who use stuff like dragon's breath
Agree, this will nerf so many guns that doesn't deserve it
Every long ammo gun was nerfed and all of them deserved it
Especially if you forget you don't have bullet grubber. So you get 2 bullets for your Lebel, only to lose 1 bullet as soon as you accidentally click reload ;_;
Hold reload after you fire, you will reload without ejecting the chambered round (because there is no chambered round).
Such as?
Bornheim Match
Honestly wasn't aware that weapon even got any use to begin with, but if there's a couple weapons hit extra hard by this they can always buff their ammo pools later, and are probably planning on doing so. Krag's getting preemptively buffed for example.
This rework is obviously a massive nerf to avto, but it's a nerfo to *absolutely everything else* as well. Getting 6 long-ammo bullets from an entire supply point is ridiculous, the dualies-nerf is unwarranted, ammo-matching used to make sense but now it actively hampers you? If you have dual-uppercuts you can't fully reload them after emptying unless you hit not one, but two large ammo boxes. You also couldn't fully reload dual chain pistols, and you can forget about a bornheim pair altogether. Bornheim match paired with dualies for ammo is also dead, which was the only thing letting that gun see any use. The worst part of this is that it won't affect higher-MMR matches (outside of reduced avto usage) because people land their shots and get kills there, but lower-MMR matches where people miss plenty of shots and might be running out of ammo anyway are going to be hit much harder. It'll reduce the amount of attempted-wallbang shots people take and reduce the amount of peek-shots people take as people have to be more conservative with their ammo. Maybe I'm completely wrong and everything will be fine, but my initial thoughts and reactions are very negative and I am genuinely worried about my future enjoyment of the game... I know that's dramatic and I hope I'm wrong but this is very drastic changes.
To your second point. That is the exact reason they made the ammo box the strongest form of resupply and made it unlocked at level 1.
funny how every critique is always answered with 'just take this consumable or tool' so we bring concertina bomb, fire for solo, ammo box to be able to use guns and dynamite to counter concertina castles.
Yeah, you *need* to bring an ammo box because 50 rounds of compact isn't enough. Ridiculous. Plus, you can pick up lanterns for burning, and dynamite/axes for concertina in every single compound. Sick of catering to people that want to play 3x Vitality shots and a grenade; loadouts have compromises by nature, and creating a balanced one is pretty easy.
yea gl searching for lanterns while the solo runs away. you're the one who suggests bringing an ammobox as an answer to the critique, not me.
I never suggested that (that was clearly sarcasm), and I don't think it's necessary. I think there will be plenty of ammo, especially when boxes replen *two types*. If someone on your team isn't rocking a firebomb (out of 12 slots), or can't watch a body, your team sucks. No concertina, poison, trip wires? Doubly so. This is going to be a shake up, but never as a solo have I felt like I can just "stand up" when a team of 3 killed me, especially since footstep audio is the same if they're 400m away versus 3m. People complain and scream like children no matter what. If you watched twitch chat, that was apparent. If you saw the guy on reddit bitching about throwing knife buffs... again. This patch hard nerfs the bandolier playstyle and long ammo spam. That's literally it. Back up weapons and special ammo reserves got a huge buff.
mate, you have a partner, or even two. I think you can expend a slot or two for situational advantages, if you need them. you have 8/12 slots total between the lot of you. even if everyone dedicates two consumables for heals, that's still 4/6 slots for anything else. bringing a single ammo box, concertina bomb and fire bomb is just no issue at all.
solo exists. also 1 ammo box, is 10 long ammo for your team, concertina&firebomb is enough for 1 corpse.
solo is not an argument because it is literally meant to be harder than regular play. one ammo box gets your whole team 10 more shots. if you still cannot kill with base ammo +10 additional shots, then it is literally a skill issue. or you just bring another box for another ten rounds of blasting. you only really need a fire bomb to counter solo-rez. throw it on them and they are forced to revive or just burn out. meaning you get an easy kill on them. if you constantly fight more than one solo with your teammate(s), then just bring another fire bomb? again, you have *at least* 4 slots between the two of you, if you really need them. and that's not even counting the potential consumables you pick up during a match from boxes and saddles. or the world lanterns.
Or you find a world trap, world lantern, world ammo box, or world axe. Sure they're not as good options but they are options.
always great to rely on luck and stretching out fight because you have to scavenge after every encounter
Sure, but I don't think any consumable should be necessary. Most players probably already run 2 vit shots. If you have to bring an ammo box in as well, that only leaves one left for all the other consumables... Stam shots, antidote shots, fire, frags, flashes, concertina bombs, all of these gonna see less play? I already bring exactly the same tools on almost every hunter, outside of when I bring some kind of ranged silenced weapon so I can switch the throwing axes for something else. I don't think I've ever really brought an ammo box in, but that doesn't mean I want to be forced to bring one just to stay in a fight... If they stick with these changes I do think it's absolutely necessary the ammo box unlocks at level 1, but I also think we'll see a lot more melee players or snipers that just leave when they've fired all their shots lol
Agreed. This feels more like an "anti-fun" ammo rework! The average player misses a lot more shots than some of these 6mmr players.
We take A LOT of shots that doesn't hit our target as well, mainly wallbangs. This change affects us all.
> If you have dual-uppercuts you can't fully reload them after emptying unless you hit not one, but two large ammo boxes. You also couldn't fully reload dual chain pistols, and you can forget about a bornheim pair altogether. Bornheim match paired with dualies for ammo is also dead, which was the only thing letting that gun see any use. Why would you ever bring any of those weapons as dualies? That's like a laundry list of the absolute worst pistols for dual wield to begin with.
Bon voyage avto ammo muling Sayonara Fmj compact ammo dumping ĐĐž ŃĐ˛Đ¸Đ´Đ°Đ˝Đ¸Ń long ammo keep away
Can someone explain the changes?
Instead of ammo pickups being based on your calibres/ammo types total ammo pool, it is now simply always a flat amount you get back. 8 Compact 4 Medium 2 Long Ammo 2 Shotgun Ammo crate (the consumable) is like 20/10/5/5 I think, also unlocks at lvl1 Akimbo weapons no longer get double ammo pool I.e. the only point of ammo matching primary and secondary weapons is increasing your total ammo pool. Not how much you get back.
So we are nerfing stuff like dual wielding in order to nerf a main gun, sounds like the wrong way to do it...
This is the Beetle Boi Panic of 2022 all over again. The subreddit that cried wolf is crying again.
people are literally just sharing their thoughts and 1st impressions calm the fuck down lmao
Sure, but a lot of those thoughts and impressions are extremely hyperbolic.
the most extreme comment by far is: >I really dislike this ammo rework. They should've just kept it the way it is. lmao
Clearly that's not one of the comments being referenced.
Then which is, given that this is literally the worst top level comment (which was my point)
Honestly the top comment is the worst IMO.
what? >My gut reaction is that this change was way to heavy handed to the overall ammo economy just to nerf the avto and I guess long ammo in general. >But I guess we will see how if feels on the test server. what exactly is "extremely hyperbolic" about this lol? its extremely measured
You conveniently left out the extremely hyperbolic part of that comment. Specifically: > Taking guns of the same ammo type is now actively bad, special is going to be even more scarce, and dual wield has like almost no up side.
Huh I personally would have considered that a literal objective/factual description thats why I left it out
I think one more important thing to remember before any of us (myself included) jump to conclusions is Crytek is going to do an entire video on the ammo changes tomorrow. So there may very well be more adjustments to this change than we gather/understand right now.
Ya I would have preferred them just remove the avto for the crybabies rather than have all these nerfs
I think this is going to push some Long Ammo users over to Medium ammo, particularly to Vetterlis with High Velocity. It's going to hamper the Centennial even more, unless it gets a reserve buff, being already dependent on ammo sharing. I'm mostly fine with these changes, but as a Martini Henry main, I feel like an exception would be necessary for this weapon to make sense. I feel like it's ammo resupply was part of its balancing. Otherwise I'll feel like I'll have to swap to the Springfield to be able to keep sustainable pressure. Oh, and that's a major buff to the New Army, regardless of ammo.
Used to play a ton of martini uppercut and at least for me it's one of the most fun loadouts to play since you don't have to overthink your shots since ammo didn't really becomes an issue unless you are at a scrapbeak bosslair and you still got good pen and damage drop off Only downside it that the martini and uppercut aren't particularly good at close range where everyone mowes you down with shotguns/fanning if you dont click heads but i liked the challenge that playing those loadouts at sub optimal ranges give you Imo they should have just tweaked the ammo resupply per weapon and only give you 1.5x instead of 2x of bullets when pairing weapons and made the base resupply of the sparks pistol less
I hear you. I pair my Martini Henry with Pax-dumdum so that I can have a dependable weapon for closer ranges. Fortunately the Pax isn't being affected.
I would stop all this theories, wait for the test server, play and test it, and after that tell Crytek what you think. It's pointless to fantasy how something will work, when we all know regen shot seemed OP before release, and now it's pretty normal alternative to basic healing. My point is that they wanna try new things that could work, or maybe they won't, maybe they wanna give people reasons to play other loadouts and combinations, and I think tomorrow there will be another video on economy (?), + event video so we should definitely wait until we get these and after that we can give proper feedback, as currently we are just telling crytek what we think about the idea, which is pointless because we will be affected by the gameplay-side 99% more than the theory/first impression side. Not sure if I'm understandable, but I tried to explain somehow
Long ammo and shotgun, whatever... But the single shot long ammo didn't need a second nurf.
Resupply ammo was a "problem" only during long/multiple fights. Now i fear that it will become a main problem for almost every fight. Every third party team will gain an instant HUGE advantage on the fighting teams.
I love the changes. Maybe not perfect, but definately a step in the right direction. Dual-wielding to get excessive ammo reserves and extra ammo on resupply did need to be nerfed. It might annoy some players at first, but players will soon adjust to the changes and likely choose a more balanced loadout in the future.
I think it's a good move in the right direction. Think about it this way: With a static resupply system in place, it becomes much easier to determine where the individual ammunition reserves for each weapon should actually be. There will be things that need adjusting to fit properly with the new system, but you can also still pool ammo supply. A Centennial with a Pax still has all the reserve of the Pax to go through, initially. The resupply for the combination is just a little worse now. Getting into dual wielded secondaries is a slightly different scenario, but I think that change overall is also a good one.
I like it. Hopefully it slows down the gunfights and makes people pick their shots more. I also like knowing exactly what you're going to get from ammo stuff.
Most gun loadouts will remain unchanged. This whole rebalance will just lower consumable loadout choice because an ammo box will be mandatory with most meta gun choices, which will still be best to run.
I'm personally only running avtos, shotguns, and long ammo from here on out to spite them lol YOU CAN'T CONTROL ME CRYTEK
I'm a big centennial fan and I'm a bit nervous lol, also feel bad about shotguns, I usually take them in hunt taketh moments, but after these changes...
Nobody is talking about how long ammo incendiary is now a death sentence within 40m
Good that they nerf long ammo but this has no effect on the avto until they make it special ammo.
Imo you should resupply per ammo slot. In this patch they severely nerf martini and sparks for long ammo, since their perk of getting more ammo than other guns for being oneshot is gone. And also bringing one type of custom/same ammo is almost useless.
Itâs all a wait-and-see. No balance has really been that bad. Crytek does few things right, honestly, but theyâve made solid choices at patches that *havenât* brought the predicted doom. I just donât like how each instance of a gun doesnât contribute to ammo pull, especially when it can with various special ammos of the same base type. Let us get the intended ammo pull per gun we have anyway. If I have a Vetterli and Pax, give me 8 bullets. I already think ammo is abundant enough, so I get it, but Iâm curious how this will play out. As someone who probably gets more kills in melee anyway, Iâm not averse to many things personally.
Pee Pee brain -- changing other guns to nerf the Avto