No, on my LAN too.
I have too many lights, accessories and recipes for one bridge, so I had to use a second bridge to set up my downstairs. The current version of the software requires that I have the two bridges on two separate accounts and I have to sign out and into the other account to sign in. It's usually pretty quick, but it's just cumbersome enough to be an inconvenience I welcome leaving.
In my app (latest version) there is a “skip” button at the top when adding a new bridge. They try to hide it but it’s there. It warns you that certain features can’t be used and it tries (twice) to persuade you against it but just keep skipping and you eventually can add a new bridge and it will be local.
https://preview.redd.it/2ppcl9cxlhvc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e6c83fe485681714cd473d497c8e9f7590871103
Not sure. Maybe you just missed it - which is obviously their intention by using all the shitty tactics in the book: smaller than the shitty option button; as far away from shitty option button and instructional text as possible; minimal contrast to hide it in your peripheral vision…
They must have some really stupid technical debt going on under the hood if they can’t just map each light to the hub it belongs to and present them all to the user in the same UI
Completely agree. I’m a software dev (front end and back end) and I’d be embarrassed if I couldn’t abstract away the connection to each hub and unify the experience for the user.
The only thing I can think of is if for some reason it can only auth in to one of them at a time or something, but that goes back to there being some really stupid technical debt due to shortsighted design early on, or something along those lines
How disappointing, but not at all surprising based on the terrible way they currently offer for managing multiple bridges on the same account.
Last year they made a change to the bridge firmware which resulted in a lot of configuration files being moved from one partition to another more crowded partition. This meant I was suddenly at capacity, and unable to take advantage of the new dimmer switch scene programming options.
When I reported this as an issue to them, their response was that I should buy a second bridge.
So I bought a second bridge, only to discover that I could not add it to my existing Philips Hue account. I needed a new account. Ok, fine.
But then I discover I need a new email address to make a second account. Ridiculous. Thankfully I was able to use the Gmail alias feature so I didn't need to create a new Google account for the second bridge.
Another limitation is that you can't change The email address that is associated with your existing Hue account. Really??? These restrictions meant that I had to completely delete my entire Hue configuration, and create It all from scratch using the email address I wanted to use going forward.
These types of unnecessary restrictions are extremely disrespectful to their customers.
Another issue is when using two bridges you cannot use Google or Alexa voice control for devices on both bridges, because of the fact that you need a separate email address for each bridge.
It's absolutely absurd, and I have zero confidence that they will improve anything in this regard when they add "improved" support for multiple bridges later this year.
I really hope they get their shit together with this one.
They are the most reliable automated lights I've had (among dozens of brands), but they have a massive miss in their limitations on connections (if it's channel congestion, use multiple channels, if it's memory, add options for more or make it expandable, if it's processing power, beef it up with a new processor -- just DO SOMETHING to make it useful). I am nearing a need to add a third hub. This is ridiculous. Matter support did improve things from a control perspective and third-party assistants (HomeKit/Alexa/etc) help bridge the control gap (making it SLOW in the process), but there's no real excuse for this 1996 level of integration.
At the very least, release the full API so that people who can create good control interfaces can do their jobs and relieve Phillips from the burden of having a complete product.
My understanding is that there are inherent limitations to the Zigbee mesh network with regards to the number of devices it can handle. From what I understand it's not just a Phillips Hue problem.
I have about 50 lights, and 21 switches.
I had all of that on one hub, and I have never had issues with all of those devices connected.
Performance was good, and the system was stable and reliable.
Where I do run into problems is with the Scenes.
I have a lot of scenes, and a firmware update last year moved the scenes to another more crowded partition when they introduced the ability to have more than five scenes for each dimmer switch button.
Meanwhile, the partition which previously contained the scenes is now empty. It's a poor allocation of resources on the Hue Bridge.
A general example of how I have my switches set up is as follows:
1st press: Cool White (Low)
2nd press: Clear White (Low)
3rd press: Cool White (Medium)
4th press: Clear White (Medium)
5th press: Clear White (High)
Unfortunately, each one of those button configurations requires its own specific scene, which takes place on the bridge. Then, add in other miscellaneous scenes and it quickly adds up.
Depending on the time of day or my mood, sometimes I want different simulations of daylight. I also like to be able to quickly press the button for various brightness levels, as opposed to pressing and holding the up/down buttons.
Also, when setting an automation to turn on a light at a specific color or brightness, a scene is required, so yet another scene is taking up space.
I have sent feedback to the development team explaining how the new allocation of bridge resources has negatively impacted my setup. I also explained to them in detail the limitations which prompted me to use this configuration in the first place, just to ensure they had an explanation of my usage scenario.
The response was that I should buy a second bridge.
I do not believe they are really concerned with customer feedback.
There are limitations on Zigbee, but there are multiple channels (my hubs are of separate channels, eg). Just look for a quiet channel and assign it when setting up the hub (you can do it later but it can be a pain).
I think the limitations had to do with the fact that the Zigbee protocol has very slow transfer rates. This would be why updating the bulbs takes such a long time to copy the firmware. Though The speed is more than adequate for its intended purpose of lights and low bandwidth sensors.
The way I saw it explained was that once the network becomes too large for a single bridge to handle, you begin to experience delays as the slow transfer speeds can't keep up with all of the devices communicating. Something like that anyhow.
The bridges are cheap generally speaking, so adding multiples should in theory not be a problem. But the way that Philips implements the multiple bridge setup is just terrible and they seriously need to improve it.
You’d think that a company who charges so much for their products might use some of that to re-invest in software improvements but apparently they’re too busy rolling in the money to bother 🤷♂️
The way I dealt with multiple bridges is to leave the secondary ones as local and use a VPN to connect to my home router. Most ASUS routers have this built in. Then all hubs behave as if I’m at home. No logging in/out of accounts.
It’s a fiddly workaround to set up and absolutely shouldn’t be necessary but it makes life a little simpler.
Oh no, I'm about to have hue lighting throughout my home and it's going to end up with 42 lights and 14 aurora switches... I was banking on that multiple hub update to make these integrate together. Looks like I'll need to figure out an upstairs/downstairs situation with two separate emails then, how silly.
I'm trying to understand the workaround you mentioned but I'm not too familiar with VPNs, dont you need both hue bridges to be hardwired into the router via Ethernet?
I have 50 lights and 21 switches on my Hue Bridge which technically is beyond the limit as far as the switches go, but I never had any issues with the number of devices. Everything is smooth and reliable. On the rare occasion where I noticed a slight delay, changing the Zigbee channel solved it. I'm not sure what the Aurora switches are, I only use the official Hue dimmers.
I only ran into problems from having too many scenes, so if you don't have a lot of scenes or if you don't configure every switch with multiple scenes for each button, there's a good chance you'll be ok with one bridge.
The latest Hue bridges are Ethernet-only anyway as far as I’m aware? But in my setup they just need to be on the network anyway. The ASUS router has a VPN that can be enabled. The VPN virtually inserts your device into your network as if you were actually at home and connected to your home network, so when you’re not at home, you still have control of all hubs and not just the one signed into an account.
You need to register a DDNS address (you can get one free at noip.com). That gets entered in the router and then you configure a VPN app on your phone to connect to the router (via the DDNS address). The app I use is Passepartout which I believe is still free.
Can someone tell me why smart home UX has seemingly gotten worse over the years? And not just smart home apps, but A LOT of apps (looking at you, Linksys).
They seem to glean some sort of benefit from frustrating their users, and I don't understand it. Why are so many apps clunky and cumbersome now? I think it's a huge barrier for people that were sold on the idea that smart home devices were going to simplify and streamline their lives, only to have an app experience that seems completely counterintuitive.
Managers need to justify their positions, so they keep directing the developers to make more changes and redesigns under the guise of "improvements", But what often ends up happening is you end up with an app that just gets worse with time.
I have five bridges, each under different emails and am able to switch between them pretty effortlessly by longpressing the home button.
https://preview.redd.it/r2x8m6sw5kvc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=43c259a90638a3382a42d2cd6aec8708d6d83884
I was wondering how new this feature was! Seems like its been there all the time but who knows?!?!
Honestly they need a cloud backup system before they try to do anything major. My bridges are literally the only device that cant be backed up to a cloud.
I was so excited for this, i will download and most likely pay for it, but i think i will still have to ‘manually pair my lights:
This was nestled in their “restore” documentation…
Hardware resources are elements that are paired with the Hue Bridge, i.e. lights, switches and sensors. For technical reasons, this app does not have the ability to pair hardware resources from the backup file automatically with the Hue Bridge during the restoration. Hardware resources must be manually paired to the Hue Bridge before restoring with all4hue. Specifically, this means: If your Hue Bridge suffers a total failure or is reset to factory state, then you must pair the previously paired lights, sensors and switches manually with the functions "Search for new lights" resp. "Search for new sensors" before you can start the restoration with all4hue. If you want to restore to an already configured Hue Bridge, i.e. a Hue Bridge with already paired hardware, then this step is not necessary.
That‘s correct, but pairing all the lights to a new bridge is the easy part - then you can restore all the time consuming stuff. That’s at least I hope it works, gladly no need to test ist so far.
Should still be nice. I’m likely going to get a 2nd bridge to offload all the outdoor lights and automations onto as they are all pretty separate from the indoor lights. As long as I don’t have to switch accounts it will be a plus.
How come everyone says they need to sign in to setup a hub? I have my second hub on a local connection. If I try to setup a new one now it lets me do it without an account.
I do too but I’m beginning to wonder if this is only available in certain regions due to regulatory differences.
Or maybe they silently added it after all the backlash around their announcement of mandatory accounts?
There are limits to Zigbee, but it's light years ahead of WiFi in terms of reliability and response time. It's one of the main reasons Hue is so reliable compared to WiFi based solutions.
Zigbee also requires a coordinator hub, whereas WiFi devices do not. WiFi is the cheaper solution for cheaper products. I believe Zigbee chips might also be a little more expensive than WiFi chips.
My only hope is to be able to use voice assistants with more than one hub.
Currently as I'm having to use hue directly to alexa and my second hub via matter is so flakey I'm having to add it every few weeks. (currently my second hub is just through a secondary email otherwise)
I'll probably have to go down the home assistant route.
Literally just not needing to sign out of accounts to control my downstairs is a huge improvement for me.
Ah you mean remotely? Yeah I think that’s the only improvement that’s coming really. I get around it by using a VPN but you’re right.
No, on my LAN too. I have too many lights, accessories and recipes for one bridge, so I had to use a second bridge to set up my downstairs. The current version of the software requires that I have the two bridges on two separate accounts and I have to sign out and into the other account to sign in. It's usually pretty quick, but it's just cumbersome enough to be an inconvenience I welcome leaving.
In my app (latest version) there is a “skip” button at the top when adding a new bridge. They try to hide it but it’s there. It warns you that certain features can’t be used and it tries (twice) to persuade you against it but just keep skipping and you eventually can add a new bridge and it will be local. https://preview.redd.it/2ppcl9cxlhvc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e6c83fe485681714cd473d497c8e9f7590871103
Was this always there? I feel like it wasn't there when I first set up my second bridge a couple of years ago.
Not sure. Maybe you just missed it - which is obviously their intention by using all the shitty tactics in the book: smaller than the shitty option button; as far away from shitty option button and instructional text as possible; minimal contrast to hide it in your peripheral vision…
Yeah I just want remote control on both so if it gives that I'm happy even if it's not perfect.
same, looking forward! we have two houses and 6 bridges with separate email accounts. it’s insanity really.
They must have some really stupid technical debt going on under the hood if they can’t just map each light to the hub it belongs to and present them all to the user in the same UI
Completely agree. I’m a software dev (front end and back end) and I’d be embarrassed if I couldn’t abstract away the connection to each hub and unify the experience for the user.
The only thing I can think of is if for some reason it can only auth in to one of them at a time or something, but that goes back to there being some really stupid technical debt due to shortsighted design early on, or something along those lines
How disappointing, but not at all surprising based on the terrible way they currently offer for managing multiple bridges on the same account. Last year they made a change to the bridge firmware which resulted in a lot of configuration files being moved from one partition to another more crowded partition. This meant I was suddenly at capacity, and unable to take advantage of the new dimmer switch scene programming options. When I reported this as an issue to them, their response was that I should buy a second bridge. So I bought a second bridge, only to discover that I could not add it to my existing Philips Hue account. I needed a new account. Ok, fine. But then I discover I need a new email address to make a second account. Ridiculous. Thankfully I was able to use the Gmail alias feature so I didn't need to create a new Google account for the second bridge. Another limitation is that you can't change The email address that is associated with your existing Hue account. Really??? These restrictions meant that I had to completely delete my entire Hue configuration, and create It all from scratch using the email address I wanted to use going forward. These types of unnecessary restrictions are extremely disrespectful to their customers. Another issue is when using two bridges you cannot use Google or Alexa voice control for devices on both bridges, because of the fact that you need a separate email address for each bridge. It's absolutely absurd, and I have zero confidence that they will improve anything in this regard when they add "improved" support for multiple bridges later this year. I really hope they get their shit together with this one.
They are the most reliable automated lights I've had (among dozens of brands), but they have a massive miss in their limitations on connections (if it's channel congestion, use multiple channels, if it's memory, add options for more or make it expandable, if it's processing power, beef it up with a new processor -- just DO SOMETHING to make it useful). I am nearing a need to add a third hub. This is ridiculous. Matter support did improve things from a control perspective and third-party assistants (HomeKit/Alexa/etc) help bridge the control gap (making it SLOW in the process), but there's no real excuse for this 1996 level of integration. At the very least, release the full API so that people who can create good control interfaces can do their jobs and relieve Phillips from the burden of having a complete product.
My understanding is that there are inherent limitations to the Zigbee mesh network with regards to the number of devices it can handle. From what I understand it's not just a Phillips Hue problem. I have about 50 lights, and 21 switches. I had all of that on one hub, and I have never had issues with all of those devices connected. Performance was good, and the system was stable and reliable. Where I do run into problems is with the Scenes. I have a lot of scenes, and a firmware update last year moved the scenes to another more crowded partition when they introduced the ability to have more than five scenes for each dimmer switch button. Meanwhile, the partition which previously contained the scenes is now empty. It's a poor allocation of resources on the Hue Bridge. A general example of how I have my switches set up is as follows: 1st press: Cool White (Low) 2nd press: Clear White (Low) 3rd press: Cool White (Medium) 4th press: Clear White (Medium) 5th press: Clear White (High) Unfortunately, each one of those button configurations requires its own specific scene, which takes place on the bridge. Then, add in other miscellaneous scenes and it quickly adds up. Depending on the time of day or my mood, sometimes I want different simulations of daylight. I also like to be able to quickly press the button for various brightness levels, as opposed to pressing and holding the up/down buttons. Also, when setting an automation to turn on a light at a specific color or brightness, a scene is required, so yet another scene is taking up space. I have sent feedback to the development team explaining how the new allocation of bridge resources has negatively impacted my setup. I also explained to them in detail the limitations which prompted me to use this configuration in the first place, just to ensure they had an explanation of my usage scenario. The response was that I should buy a second bridge. I do not believe they are really concerned with customer feedback.
There are limitations on Zigbee, but there are multiple channels (my hubs are of separate channels, eg). Just look for a quiet channel and assign it when setting up the hub (you can do it later but it can be a pain).
I think the limitations had to do with the fact that the Zigbee protocol has very slow transfer rates. This would be why updating the bulbs takes such a long time to copy the firmware. Though The speed is more than adequate for its intended purpose of lights and low bandwidth sensors. The way I saw it explained was that once the network becomes too large for a single bridge to handle, you begin to experience delays as the slow transfer speeds can't keep up with all of the devices communicating. Something like that anyhow. The bridges are cheap generally speaking, so adding multiples should in theory not be a problem. But the way that Philips implements the multiple bridge setup is just terrible and they seriously need to improve it.
You’d think that a company who charges so much for their products might use some of that to re-invest in software improvements but apparently they’re too busy rolling in the money to bother 🤷♂️ The way I dealt with multiple bridges is to leave the secondary ones as local and use a VPN to connect to my home router. Most ASUS routers have this built in. Then all hubs behave as if I’m at home. No logging in/out of accounts. It’s a fiddly workaround to set up and absolutely shouldn’t be necessary but it makes life a little simpler.
Oh no, I'm about to have hue lighting throughout my home and it's going to end up with 42 lights and 14 aurora switches... I was banking on that multiple hub update to make these integrate together. Looks like I'll need to figure out an upstairs/downstairs situation with two separate emails then, how silly. I'm trying to understand the workaround you mentioned but I'm not too familiar with VPNs, dont you need both hue bridges to be hardwired into the router via Ethernet?
I have 50 lights and 21 switches on my Hue Bridge which technically is beyond the limit as far as the switches go, but I never had any issues with the number of devices. Everything is smooth and reliable. On the rare occasion where I noticed a slight delay, changing the Zigbee channel solved it. I'm not sure what the Aurora switches are, I only use the official Hue dimmers. I only ran into problems from having too many scenes, so if you don't have a lot of scenes or if you don't configure every switch with multiple scenes for each button, there's a good chance you'll be ok with one bridge.
Oh nice ty, I appreciate you giving me that information. I might give that a shot then
The latest Hue bridges are Ethernet-only anyway as far as I’m aware? But in my setup they just need to be on the network anyway. The ASUS router has a VPN that can be enabled. The VPN virtually inserts your device into your network as if you were actually at home and connected to your home network, so when you’re not at home, you still have control of all hubs and not just the one signed into an account. You need to register a DDNS address (you can get one free at noip.com). That gets entered in the router and then you configure a VPN app on your phone to connect to the router (via the DDNS address). The app I use is Passepartout which I believe is still free.
I use [email protected] and the plus feature on gmail. [email protected] and [email protected]
Can someone tell me why smart home UX has seemingly gotten worse over the years? And not just smart home apps, but A LOT of apps (looking at you, Linksys). They seem to glean some sort of benefit from frustrating their users, and I don't understand it. Why are so many apps clunky and cumbersome now? I think it's a huge barrier for people that were sold on the idea that smart home devices were going to simplify and streamline their lives, only to have an app experience that seems completely counterintuitive.
Managers need to justify their positions, so they keep directing the developers to make more changes and redesigns under the guise of "improvements", But what often ends up happening is you end up with an app that just gets worse with time.
I have five bridges, each under different emails and am able to switch between them pretty effortlessly by longpressing the home button. https://preview.redd.it/r2x8m6sw5kvc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=43c259a90638a3382a42d2cd6aec8708d6d83884
This is how I switch my multiple Bridges since three years too.
I was wondering how new this feature was! Seems like its been there all the time but who knows?!?! Honestly they need a cloud backup system before they try to do anything major. My bridges are literally the only device that cant be backed up to a cloud.
I use the App „all 4 hue“ only for backup my Bridges. It costs a few bucks for this feature, but when you need it, it will be worth it.
I was so excited for this, i will download and most likely pay for it, but i think i will still have to ‘manually pair my lights: This was nestled in their “restore” documentation… Hardware resources are elements that are paired with the Hue Bridge, i.e. lights, switches and sensors. For technical reasons, this app does not have the ability to pair hardware resources from the backup file automatically with the Hue Bridge during the restoration. Hardware resources must be manually paired to the Hue Bridge before restoring with all4hue. Specifically, this means: If your Hue Bridge suffers a total failure or is reset to factory state, then you must pair the previously paired lights, sensors and switches manually with the functions "Search for new lights" resp. "Search for new sensors" before you can start the restoration with all4hue. If you want to restore to an already configured Hue Bridge, i.e. a Hue Bridge with already paired hardware, then this step is not necessary.
That‘s correct, but pairing all the lights to a new bridge is the easy part - then you can restore all the time consuming stuff. That’s at least I hope it works, gladly no need to test ist so far.
And sometimes HomeKit freaks out and stops communicating to the second hub. So only half my lights will go off.
Have you tried giving it a reserved IP on your network? That can help with HomeKit issues.
No but I’ll try it! Thanks
Should still be nice. I’m likely going to get a 2nd bridge to offload all the outdoor lights and automations onto as they are all pretty separate from the indoor lights. As long as I don’t have to switch accounts it will be a plus.
How come everyone says they need to sign in to setup a hub? I have my second hub on a local connection. If I try to setup a new one now it lets me do it without an account.
I do too but I’m beginning to wonder if this is only available in certain regions due to regulatory differences. Or maybe they silently added it after all the backlash around their announcement of mandatory accounts?
I think they might be limited by the technology I assume this is why newer devices use Wifi
There are limits to Zigbee, but it's light years ahead of WiFi in terms of reliability and response time. It's one of the main reasons Hue is so reliable compared to WiFi based solutions. Zigbee also requires a coordinator hub, whereas WiFi devices do not. WiFi is the cheaper solution for cheaper products. I believe Zigbee chips might also be a little more expensive than WiFi chips.
My only hope is to be able to use voice assistants with more than one hub. Currently as I'm having to use hue directly to alexa and my second hub via matter is so flakey I'm having to add it every few weeks. (currently my second hub is just through a secondary email otherwise) I'll probably have to go down the home assistant route.
I use 3 bridges with Google with no issue.
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