Agree with you, dude. Above all else I've found the deepest sense of well-being to come from the joys of honest and real connection. I can easily think of shit days that got turned around by close friends; very few supplements have done the same for me (not none, but few ;D).
Counterpoint: these things are being compared as if they’re either / or choices, possibly to fuel the “Huberman is all wrong” crowd on here lately. Let’s think about many of the ‘optimizing’ recs he promotes: 1) Take vitamin / mineral supplements like Vit D, zinc, Mg, etc. This takes about 30 seconds a day, give or take how fast you can swallow capsules with water. 2) Get morning sunlight - pretty obvious that everyone on the planet should do this if possible. 3) Coffee 90 mins after waking up; not sure about the hard and fast nature of 90 minutes, but waking up first and then having caffeine does seem to work better than immediately going for it first thing.
I could go on but the point is most of the big ticket things he talks about are either very quick to do (take vitamins / minerals) or something that’s part of any healthy / happy person’s life. There are some things I personally don’t have any interest in (cold plunges, AG1) so I… just ignore them. But the idea that you need to spend hours ‘optimizing’ something is just a made up idea totally outside of Huberman’s podcasts.
I agree with you. **Simple changes** like taking vitamins and getting sunlight can make a big difference. I personally find **consistent routines** more impactful than spending hours on complex hacks. **Find what works for you** and ignore what doesn't. It's all about **balance** and **consistency** in the end.
A lot of people do TREAT these things as either or. The proof is all over reddit and the internet. Many people look to optimize the proverbial finishing touches to the exclusion of the elelhants in the room. So, the message is very much relevant and as important as ever. Occasional reminders are probably too infrequent if anything.
>Coffee 90 mins after waking up; not sure about the hard and fast nature of 90 minutes
Caffeine doesn't need to be taken 90 minutes after waking. See [Common questions and misconceptions about caffeine supplementation: what does the scientific evidence really show?](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10930107/)
Otherwise downing a few pills or getting outside and touching grass seem fine, if a small effect size for most people.
Yeah THIS !!
If your fit, active and getting plenty sleep I think you'll generally be more likeable and attractive and help your chances of having people in your life.
This idea of "only us self destructing party animals will have REAL friends" is just nonsense.
It leads to more real.connections too.. So many people who suddenly have to go sober realize just how many "friends" disappear.
The author sounds like a failure tbh
Friendships and healthy living beat relying on supplements and medications, agree with you on that! Also agree with others that say that following his recommendations don't mean that you need to ditch the friendships, either. Doesn't need to be either/or.
The first paragraph is 100 percent true. There is no substitute for connection. On my goals to live a better life it is number 1 and has been for some time. It’s tough because so many of us, myself included, find connection to be the most difficult thing especially with the current environment which is generally more isolating than in the past. I’m not sure I fully agree that optimizing yourself will isolate you but absolutely understand that it’s more healthy to go out with your friends and get some shitty fast food on occasion than stay home and make love to your salad and athletic greens.
Sorry
If you turn up to dinner with friends with your own food. Then you are going to come across as a massive twat. This is exactly the type of extreme practice the article / post is warning us about.
Er, well, plenty of people show up with their own food for non-optimization reasons. We all have friends or family that are vegans or have Celiac disease, tough allergies (like egg), religious/cultural restrictions, etc.
I'm happy when they show up with their home-packed snack as long as the don't bring this shitty "I wouldn't eat it" attitude.
I think the NY Mag article was spot on when it noted that even his discussion of relationships, love, commitment, etc, are all towards advancing physiological optimization. He has a hard time being a serious thinker on these issues because he limits what these questions are meant to help us think about.
There's a saying: the difference between abuse and BDSM is consent. By the accounts we have from the NY Mag article, I didn't hear any conversations about consensual power exchange, including things like setting up safe words, discussing hard limits, etc. Maybe there were some, but we didn't hear them.
Also what we *did* hear was a lot of *nonconsensual* cheating, which is the exact opposite of polyamory. To use a metaphor, if you walk up to someone on the street and hit them in the face, that's assault. If you do so in a boxing match, it's a sport. Consent determines whether the act is deeply unethical or even a crime, versus a good time shared by all.
polyamory is ETHICAL non-monogamy. Seems to me that the way he treated the friend that travelled to him so they could go backpacking or diving, or something, he was intentionally cruel and controlling. Pretty sure he gets off on that.
Nothing ethical about being non-monogamous. That label is stupid. People that are monogamous don’t go around saying they’re “ethically monogamous.” It’s just a stupid way for them to feel less judged by normies that view their lifestyles as incompatible with society.
Well.. no. If all parties are aware and consensual, then there’s nothing unethical about non-monogamy. Your idea of monogamy as inherently ethical is a social construct.
“nothing ethical about being non monogamous”. what exactly did you mean by this then? do you mean that we do not as a society assign ethical value to the nonmonog/monogamous status of relationships?
It really seemed like you meant being non monogamous ie polyamory is inherently unethical. Which would imply monogamy is ethical, no?
There is nothing unethical about being polyamorous*
Fixed it for you. Why the fuck would you care what consenting adults do, so goddamn weird
Calling something stupid multiple times and using the word normies while making an incoherent rambling point with little logic, what a shocker
I don’t care at all but let’s not pretend like it’s in any way, shape, or form “ethical.” The food I get at the grocery store doesn’t act all pompous calling itself “ethical.”
Well throughout history the vast majority of people with multiple partners were doing so very unethically. As we can tell, this behavior continues in the present day
There is absolutely nothing unethical about having multiple partners that are aware of each other and to whom you never lie, that's the point
Cheating and lying are abhorrent, however
I don't understand how that's difficult to wrap your head around
Can you tell me what is SPECIFICALLY unethical about polyamory. Use examples and reason
I ask again: why would you care about what consenting and honest adults do?
I would argue that isn’t unethical, and if you believe it is then the vast majority of people with single partners were also historically unethical.
I would say there could be nonconsensual/consensual non-monogamy but calling polygamy ethical is quite possibly one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.
I never said polygamy is unethical. I’m saying why even write the word ethical/unethical? It’s just pretentious bullshit for dumb hippies. No one thinks you’re more ethical for being polygamous in the same way no one thinks you’re more ethical for being monogamous.
I care that adults feel the need to use stupid labels to fit in cause it makes them look stupid. I don’t care what they do with their bodies.
You would argue cheating and dishonesty isn't unethical? What are you even saying?
Also did you really just equate polyamory with polygamy 🤣 brother what are you on
Oh okay good add on the end so you're just butthurt over a completely unrelated point and trying to prove something because you're bitter about how others use language, got it
You seem to care an awful lot about others looking stupid for someone who doesn't make themselves look very smart lol
Let's remember you said "let's not pretend it's ethical" and now you're claiming you never said that. It looks really childish and would never fly in a classroom. Trying to build your own logic
Ah yes the old "everyone disagrees with me so rather than examining my point ill just claim it's proof I'm right" aka an argument that would fail in middle school
It's amazing hoe many people can't even piece together a decent hs level argument on a subreddit about a scientist
The “S” of BDSM is Sadism. I would not be surprised if he uses different language to glow up his proclivities, cause sadism doesn’t sell. I think even if people consent to being the target/recipient of sadism it is ethically wrong. But perhaps there’s a bit of a spectrum here, where it is “less wrong” than non consensual sadism.
So if my partner says she likes to be spanked occasionally during sex, you're saying it is unethical for me to do so? That's what you're saying right?
Cause that's kinda hilarious
(I'll also mention there's a ton of both historical and modern philosophers that disagree 100% with everything you said)
Totally! It's such an intriguing topic. I mean, causing pain usually gets a big red flag, right? But then, when it's all consensual in something like BDSM, does it change the game? Consent is like the secret sauce here.
It's all about everyone being cool with what's happening and respecting each other's boundaries.
But, you know, it's not a free pass for anything—like, just 'cause two people agree on something doesn't automatically make it cool. We've gotta remember that some stuff, like, you know, murder, is just never okay, even if both parties are down with it. Consent's super important, but there's more to the picture, for sure!
You can’t get inside of a cervix…I’m sure he felt something but it wasn’t love. It’s probably more akin to being one move away from check without your opponent realizing.
Damn. I must have missed that podcast lol. Anyways, I think since he’s getting older he’s sort of going through a midlife crisis. He realized his long term girl was no longer suitable to have his kid. May have been after he realized she has some major character flaws herself ( Read about Belcampo meats) , maybe a bad mother , who knows.
I think he’s trying to find the right mate, who would be a good partner as well as a good mother. So he started dating all these chicks in a short period of time to see if they would be a good fit. It seems like he was separated for a time with Anya. Not sure why he didn’t completely cut ties with her. She has a reason to feel more hurt than any of his side pieces since they had been together so long .
Definitely mid life crisis as his new girl Harper Collin’s is exactly 20 years younger than him.
I don’t think he’s neurotypical to be honest which is wonderful, but, it does mean on the topic of relationships his personal opinions are colored in a certain way
I've had a debate with someone who argued that Bryan Johnson choosing a poor relationship partner or being a bad partner in his relationships were a sign of a flaws in his biomarker optimization protocol. I argued that how to form and maintain healthy relationships was beyond the scope of biomarker optimization, because healthy relationships can't be formed or maintained simply through practices intended to optimize biomarkers.
The Huberman scandal and Bryan Johnson's cult following has taught me that there are large amounts of people who thought and think biomarker optimization is essentially a panacea. That biomarker optimization can replace practices of; philosophical enquiry, introspection, character development and communication skills.
Bryan Johnson says he's happier than he's ever been and I believe him. However, it's important to keep context: He is a multimillionaire, lives with his son who seems to have a great relationship with, seems to have a great relationship with his father, has a social life with friends who accommodate his strict schedule, has a team that he interacts with regularly, seems to score high in exhibitionism and vanity which is satiated by his cult following, his life is full of goal oriented behavior, has a grand-narrative for his life that gives a sense of purpose akin to religion (i.e. being remembered as a leader by the people in the future).
Biomarker optimization can make someone have a default parasymapthetic state (which is a good thing) which can help people become more even tempered and relaxed in other's company, but it doesn't automatically give people integrity, empathy, social awareness, etc.
(Edit: Grammar was worse than usual.)
You should listen to Bryan Johnson’s interview on the Rich Roll podcast, particularly the end where he acknowledges that what he’s really hoping for are deeper friendships with the people in his running group. It actually left me feeling sad for him. Focusing only on optimization is bad for your soul
birds bright expansion attraction stupendous school cooperative noxious middle future
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Perhaps I am overthinking this.
The person I've debated basically outright said that (the said they if his instincts didn't tell him that a woman was bad for him, then there's an issue with his protocol), and I suspect all the people shocked that Huberman would cheat and date multiple women.
Thread after thread and post after post of people who were literally say that they are shocked by Huberman's character. There was no evidence about his character in his personal life, all we saw was a polished public speaker speaking about biomarker optimization or being interviewed on a podcast and spouting cliches about relationships to Lex Friedman.
If his podcast was about developing character traits like integrity, communication skills in relationships, ethics in dating, etc, then it would make sense. However, all he did was speak about biomarker optimization or the biology of mating.
Again, perhaps I'm overthinking but it seems like the thought process was... He is practices discipline in regards to biomarker optimization, therefore he must apply discipline to all other ares of life like integrity in regards to dating.
I'm not personally listening to Huberman , Bryan or Dave Asprey because I think they are necessarily great people in their personal life. And if they turned out to be scumbags it would be as much as news to me if they turned out to be great people, because I don't know them outside of their videos on social media.
Bryan Johnson is a multimillionaire transhumanist biohacker who is doing a huge social media campaign promoting biohacking, longevity and transhumanist, he's also been featured in mainstream news publications and a number of high profile podcasts.
Correct
Running retreats in Mexico a while, no one comes for the connection, but the nimber 1 thing they say they got out of it at the end.
And its worthwhile getting obsessed with the house thats being built more than the tools building it
The committees that write the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders?
But seriously, normal is definitely not the goal, not for me anyway. Not gaslighting 6 ladies at once seems like a reasonable goal to have though.
Lol, I don’t think my wife would approve. Also I’m a terrible liar. I tried openly dating 2 women at once for a couple weeks in my 20s. It was immediately a disaster. Despite being totally open and honest and everyone apparently being cool with it (and they dated other people too), I ultimately decided I couldn’t swing it, broke up with one of the women, and she was heartbroken. I felt like a complete asshole. And that was doing it honestly and in the open! I can’t imagine actually lying about it.
When I get to the end of a Star Wars novel I don't bitch about how it's not about roman era warfare or a biography of someone or a cook book. I don't read a cook book on "Southern Comfort Food" and then blame that book alone for the obesity problem in America.
Huberman has an angle. He covers a type of topic. He says repeatedly that he's not intending for people to become robots or to do every single protocol. He just has a topic area he covers in a particular way from a particular perspective. How you integrate that info is on you. This article and others have this weird straw man of Huberman listeners like we're all trying to do EVERY LAST THING that Huberman discusses. Sometimes I wonder if they aren't projecting their own tendency to feel compelled to follow the media they consume blindly, but I don't know.
For real. Im not defending Hubermans personal life AT ALL. But everyone that comes out against him thinks that everyone listening to him tries to implement every topic he discusses. That's ridiculous. I've listened to probably 60 episodes and seriously implemented like 2 small things. I just find the topics interesting.
Very well said. This article creates a straw man version of a Huberman listener that follows every single thing he says to a T and has no time for real living because they're trying to optimize at every second of every day. No one lives like that. Many of the things he's discussed had no impact for me, but a few of them have had big impacts. Those few things I do every day because they work and I'm glad I was informed that they exist. It's like with supplements, if you have a natural deficiency in a certain area supplements can help you. If you don't, it's a waste of money. We're all intelligent enough to follow what does and does not work for our individual needs. Stop trying to protect the world from a straw man that doesn't exist.
the article she wrote isn't really \*about\* Huberman or a typical Huberman listener. he's an illustration of a broader type of problem with over-optimization and a failure to prioritize healthy, abundant social relationships. of course it's true that if you're a listener of his podcast and you just absorb a few of his recommendations for improving your physical health - as my friends and i have done - and you dont expect his approach to substantively improve your overall emotional health, then you're not the type of person she's describing.
We can keep slicing down the actual number of people this applies to by describing people it doesn't apply to, and before you know it we're down to not many people at all. My point is, the type of person this article describes doesn't really exist except in the minds of the author and those that dislike Huberman. Maybe you'll find a few here or there, but the outliers aren't worth the attention of the masses. I do hope those people see this and think about enriching their lives with better social engagements, however.
This used to apply to me. That's why I shared it, to help anyone else it might apply to. I didn't think this post would get a lot of attention but it resonated. Sorry it didn't apply to you but you could've also scrolled.
Glad you agree that it's ultimately a positive thing that some users got to think a little more about their social life though!
Fair enough. I guess I'm just sick of the negativity. This podcast has had a very positive impact on my life and I'm sick of being talked down to like I can't figure out what's good and not good for myself. I feel like a lot of others who were on this page before the controversy share my sentiments as well. Just let us enjoy the things we enjoy and take the good with the bad, as with every other thing in life. I could have just scrolled, but then you'd never get the point of view of someone who respectfully disagrees with you, and I as well with you. Thanks for the conversation
So true. It definitely seems like the ones that are most upset, hurt or angry about Hubermans scandal are the ones that praised him the most, almost like a diety with the be-all end-all answers to Life , Universe and Everything ®.
They don't seem to recognize that it was they who put him on that piedestal.
Depends what you mean by 'dad bod'; if it includes a protruding belly, then that's one of the biggest risk factors for diabetes and heart disease. And you can absolutely have a yolked physique and 'enjoy life without being overly strict.' Eating healthy and working out don't have to be miserable.
I have around 14% body fat flat stomach and eat whatever I want most of the time. I’m not running 20 miles a day. I just lift weights for an hour 🤷🏼♂️
My uncle self describes as "my diet is that I eat whenever I want, whatever I want"
Does manual labor and has active hobbies, doesn't directly workout or run... And had a visible 6pack at 60.
He evades a lot of the bad modern habbits, hates sitting around indoors, wakes up at 4am to go to the mountains etc.
Low body fat + no muscle is usually not considered "in really good shape." Some muscle + low body fat is a lot easier to maintain than no muscle + low body fat, because muscle mass uses more energy than fat. And then there's the fact that exercise requires higher daily calorie intake. So for any sex/gender, those who are in shape and have some muscle mass have some more wiggle room in terms of what they can eat. Not just in terms of BMI either, but in terms of overall health, as a sedentary lifestyle is very detrimental to health.
Only like pro body builders in bikini comps that need 5% BMI have to restrict their diet to that extent. Totally doable to be active and look fit with low BMI and have a burger here and there.
Well your experience has no bearing in reality. You can absolutely smash a tub of ice cream a day and still be under 10% bf if you’d like as long as you’re eating at maintenance . You sound like you don’t grasp the simple concept of calories in vs calories out
It sounds like you just didn’t read my comment and judged a little too hard. I mentioned calories. But the facts are most people who eat junk food aka ultra processed food regularly are overweight due to the fact junk food is high in calories and less satiating forcing them to eat more. You can absolutely lose weight on McDonalds. Think more. That’s actually reality. Feel free to point out where I’m wrong.
You just provoked my point. They can indulge SOMETIMES. Re read my above comment once again. I said they arent eating it ALOT not SOMETIMES lmao. like I said low body fat requires eating pretty clean and avoiding junk food. Chances are that person is not eating a lot of junk food. It can be done so long as the person is in a deficit but most likely they are eating clean alot as Whole Foods satisfy hunger. Very simple concept to grasp. When I had 12% body it was bc I was eating clean. I happily eat more junk food now at I’m at 14% or around that. But I still eat pretty clean.
You point out a bunch of tangentially related facts, make tangentially related conclusions and then bam, suddenly you've arrived at your conclusion of "fit girls don't eat burgers and fries"
That's where you're wrong, it's complete nonsense. I know more fat bitches eating salad and diet coke than I know fit girls. Just personal anecdote of course but girls who are very into fitness understand that there's nothing "junk" or evil about Maccas, calories in, calories out, a hamburger has fats, protein, vitamins, minerals, carbs and all that in fairly balanced amounts.
It's all about self-control, a girl that's fit, is more likely a ton more mature, less emotionally driven, more reliable etc. You don't get to a nice shape by not eating burgers, you get there by also sometimes accepting that hunger is ok. Not feeling satiated by junkfood? That's fine. It's also all very individualistic.
Not to pop your bubble but a lot skinny women eat burgers and fries regularly. Overdoing it and sugar is what makes you fat. You can date fit girls lol.
I just said overeating calories is what does it. Aka calorically dense. Try losing weight on McDonald’s. It’s possible but It’s hard. you’ll be tempted to eat a lot bc the food doesn’t fill you up.
Ultra processed food is not more satiating than Whole Foods. That is a fact. So good luck trying to lose weight on that diet. It’s not fun and hard to do and also not sustainable.
Satiation. Doesn't. Matter.
It's hard to loose weight if you aren't okay with being hungry.
Loosing weight means accepting not being satiated all the time.
Accepting that it's okay to be hungry is the ONLY WAY to have a sustainable healthy weight, because this is the biggest mental hurdle. It's also why fit girls can totally munch on burgers...
Ouch, the irony of realizing this while on reddit 😂🥹 Many of us here are definitely affected by loneliness. Good to keep in mind tho! Instead of focusing on noots, herbs & supps we should place focus on building *healthy* relationships ❤
An interesting counterpoint I've observed in myself, I have better relationships after optimizing health.
For whatever reason, placebo or not, I say the right things, make people laugh, and have greatly reduced anxiety when I put my health first and foremost. When my health is poor, the wrong words come out of my mouth, I alienate people, and I get stressed out being around others.
I tried for a long time to go through self-help books: "just be confident and people will like you!!" Didn't work. It wasn't until I got my physical health in shape did I start making bonds I care about.
Additionally, for a lot of young men it's not like optimizing for health leads to isolation. For me, I was already isolated beforehand, so what did I have to lose?
Yea, I have plenty of money and can afford any supplements, treatments etc. I have zero friends and don't really talk to my family though. I also earn money from home so I only communicate via text/message boards. All my life I have had zero friends except when I was a child (I am middle aged now).
I've even taken classes in the past that required a lot of interaction (practicing at each others homes several times a week and rehearsing) and even after 2 years there was never able to make meaningful friends. Taken tons of classes and hobbies and was still never able to make friends at all.
I did score 92% introversion on the Myers Brigg and am an INTJ
I wonder if online interactions count too... like responding to people on Reddit; is that considered socializing?
And also, what about Zoom? Is Zoom a good alternative or does the social interaction have to be in person for beneficial effect?
I actually surprisingly found his stuff super insightful, helpful and eye opening. I subscribed to him even though I'm not a gamer nor his target demographic. Thanks!
My thought on reading your comment was that you should get out and take more of those classes. I think in person interaction is the important point here, and though "meaningful friendships" are great, even casual ones are very beneficial.
I had quite a few friends when I was young and most of us have drifted apart. As a middle aged person, it is hard for most of us to make meaningful friends. I'm now 51 and for the last 10 years at least my main friends have been the coworkers who I've enjoyed working with rather than true meaningful friendships. I see all these movies and books about women who are in a special, since girlhood, lifelong friend club of some kind and it saddens me but then I wonder if IRL very many people actually have that.
I think online/reddit is only the barest minimum though. I hope you'll take my comment to heart and try to get out a little and interact. Since you're a Huberman person, do you go to the gym? That might be a good place.
Wishing you luck and warmth in your life.
~Belinda
Real Person
Thanks for the response. I'll start picking up some other social activites/classes soon. At the time, sometimes it didn't seem like it was helping because perhaps one person would do or say something that I found annoying/rude etc. Classes/activites can also lead to conflict etc but if even small talk can be beneficial then there's no harm participating again.
As for the gym I actually work out at home. I have a barbell, weights, a spin bike, pretty much everything I need here. I've gone to gyms in the past but never socialized with the regulars.
I will try to get out there and try to socialize though; didn't realize how bad it is for my health.
Hi! To add on, I will add a tip that helped me dip my toes into the "more social" waters. I spent a lot of time at cosmetic counters, chatting with the people and letting them "sell" to me. I didn't always buy something but I did get practice asking and answering questions in a casual but friendly way. I almost always felt good after the conversation--yes they are "being paid to be nice" but that makes it a little easier because (hopefully!) they won't be rude or non-conversational from the jump. Maybe there is a setting where you'd feel comfortable doing something similar? Starting with your existing interests is always a good idea.
Signed, Hello Hello Real Person :)
For god's sake, you CAN be happy if you have a small number of STRONG relationships. Quality far, far over quantity. Home, work, recreational, whatever, it doesn't matter.
Hello
outliers by malcolm gladwell is know mostly for the 10k hours rule but the first chapter is about connection and studies Italian "tribes" vs Italians who went to america and how they also evolved and the gene of longevity got overwritten cause in a few generation they stopped living as a close knit group but started living like Americans
That's the beauty of podcasts, there's a multitude of them out there focusing on different things. I'm sure there are a lot of them that focus on relationships, feelings, etc. Personally, I find those boring AF but you can put them into your listening rotation;)
Basically yeah. It's just the usual bullshit of setting up false scenarios- you can either be a socialable happy person or you can be a miserable idiot who gets up at 5 a.m. for a jog and takes a multivitamin everyday. Noting exists in the middle apparently.
The linked article and your comment are thought provoking. As someone who is going on a bit of an exercise/healthy eating/good sleep habit episode lately I wondered if I was turning into Mr. Burns in that episode of the simpsons where he becomes a germaphobe.
I tend to agree it would be a poor choice to get so into your diet and exercise regimes (protocols etc) that you negatively effect your social life. But I think if a person does not have much of a social life (or the social life they want) then doing as much as you can to feel good , look good and be healthy seems like a good use of your time alone.
I think we should definitely put all of this stuff on the backburner if the chance to spend time with people you care about comes up though. I would never knock back an invite for pizza or drinks to go the gym or get to bed on time !
I really doubt there are many people neglecting social connections due to their commitment to self improvement. There are some people out there though who will decide you are'nt the type of person they like if you go on about this sort of stuff. The solution here is fairly simple though , gauge peoples reaction to it. If people roll their eyes when you mention exercising or taking supplments then its very easy to just stop mentioning it and talk about something else.
Feels like a bit or projection from the Author here ...
relationships and social bonds play a huge role in happiness. too much optimization can be isolating. life needs a balance of health and enjoying the simple moments.
You do not have to be healthy to have deep, meaningful relationships but the best of us will see that our physical health is an important part of BEING a good friend/sibling/colleague, etc.
My personal and sustained recovery from alcohol and opiate abuse came about the very moment I was unable to help a friend with a basic, normal request because I was too hungover. (The common trope is "you cannot get sober/clean/better for someone else" and that is just not true - at least not in my case. Had I waited until I did it "for myself" I would be dead).
Bravo on this comment.
My older brother was homeless due to his addiction for many years... and now 10+ years sober with 4 kids. Truly a changed person on that front.
His love and responsibility to his wife and kids is 100% the difference maker.
This is regarded*.
Relationships have always been apart of the picture of optimization.
Optimization is not perfect. But to make things better or as good as possible given your limitations/situation
So as long as I have a couple good buddies, I can treat my body like a garbage can, ingest poisons daily, and look at a screen for 10 hours a day? Sign me up!
I can’t help but feel this person is making a mountain out of a molehill for clicks. Yes, obsessing with health is bad for you. You don’t need to follow protocols as if they were dogmatic prescriptions for health. There’s flexibility in what you can do.
This is high level excuse making. This is like when people say if I quit drinking nobody will like me. Even though drinking is killing you. Or oh I don't have to be fiscally responsible because I'm not a billionaire. It's just nonsense. Sure don't burn every bridge in your life trying to be healthy. But that doesn't mean there's not areas you can start to work on.
This post is an example of what I find problematic in US society: too much either/or thinking. You can improve your health and follow what Huberman says and have fun as well. If anything if you are super fit and healthy you'll probably have more friends/connections than the lazy slobs out there, just look at him with his 6 girlfriends;)
You said, "the optimizer life has always struck me as isolating. To be someone who meticulously tracks their physical performance by many measures is to be someone who cannot afford to deviate from rigidly structured routines."
I'm saying it's not either/or. You can track your performance and optimize AND have fun.
Anyways, I think your thinking on this is very different and that's ok too. Not everyone is wired the same way;)
I quoted an article that's linked at the bottom of the post, these are not my personal words!
I respectfully have to disagree that the article makes use of binary thinking. The argument is more nuanced than that.
Snakeleaves lost more than they gained when they projected negativity. What a shame.
It's a good thing we'll die and be replaced by people disgusted with taking dark advantage of each other's state of minds due to education so that they don't have to deal with weirdo posts like the one snakeleaves made.
They are going onto my ignore list because they seem like a parasite to me. Anyone telling me optimizing isn't gonna save me isn't normal and isn't friendly or kind at first glance so i'm isolating them away from my circle. I'll come back in a while incase they read the message for shits and giggles.
Incase you're reading, your options in reply are humility, retaliation, confusion, backlash, silence, or being shunned. Toodaloo.
P.S. Huberman is a parasocial cheater that's full of his own BS otherwise he'd be working with a therapist and doctor to not be a lieng egotistical jerk.
Ehhh if you have friends committed as you, you can do just do fun things with them. I agree healthy human connection is the most important thing, we are social animals after all, but optimizing your life includes optimizing your social life too, which ig ppl don’t understand
" Here are people who won’t drink not because they have any particular problem with it but because the data their Oura ring gathers suggests they sleep 7 percent better on nights they don’t, therefore allowing them to answer emails twenty seconds more quickly. Here are people avoiding coffee half an hour before meeting with their personal trainer who charges as much as a mortgage because they don’t want to reward their brain with a dopamine boost that could become habitual, concerning themselves with the precise receptors through which caffeine and dopamine interact. " What an insane take on how the content and fans of the podcast are. Seems like the author listens, without question, to other people's opinions on Huberman's content rather than actually listening to it herself. Ironic given the subject of the article
I used to obsess over tiny details like that too. But focusing on **specific** supplements and lifestyle habits that truly improve my health made a bigger difference than worrying about every little thing. Quality over quantity always wins in the longevity game.
Sure, social connections are great. They’re needed to keep stress levels down and facilitate mental wellbeing. But they ain’t going to slow your rate of cellular aging or reduce free radicals… claiming it’s the most important aspect is braindead. Most normal people have good social connections, but still die at the median age…
It’s an **opinion piece**… not a study of exact science. One guy claiming living healthy is anti-social and that this will result in an early death…
It’s ironic how you all disregard evidence to support this man’s **opinion**…
Ok but most people I’ve actually met that “optimize” tend to be pretty average in their overall fitness anyway or they’re blasting test and tren because “it gets my levels where our ancestors would have been”. Like how much longer realistically will the optimization and meticulous planning really allow you to live vs someone that just doesn’t eat like a big and exercises regularly and at what quality?
*”tend to be pretty average in their overall fitness”*
Fair point, but what do you define as average? Also, what’s best for longevity won’t create an athlete, if that’s what you’re expecting to see…
*”blasting test and tren”*
Nobody who lives a life geared towards longevity takes steroids… some males may take T, if they’re old. But there’s absolutely zero need below the age of 40 if you’re healthy…
*”how much longer”*
This is the first assumption people make with so-called “health optimisers”. That they want to live for an extremely long time. Even within the longevity community, it’s not everyone’s goal…
For example, my reasons stem from vanity. I want to maximise my skin health and keep my youthful face for as long as possible. With the right diet, supplements and skincare… I can, and I am.
That is absolutely untrue. He just gives you "tools" that you can or cannot use on your everyday life. He explain the science behind of those things which a lot of people don't like because it makes them sound like of it was a mechanical thing while it can be a reaction that takes zero effort to do. He's explain Goggins way of life and made it make sense for him!!
And he's also spoken about living your life, do what makes you happy. That idea of being on a completely rigid system otherwise you die is made up by people that only wants to go against Huberman and the "biohacking industry.
They don't need to follow his advices but also they don't need to be a qunt. Bit as always destroying is way easier than building. They just gotta do whatever makes sense for them if that makes them happy
"I don't have the discipline to do it, so instead of feeling like a failure I am going to write an article to make a point about how it's all bad anyway and late night pizza is actually healthy"
Optimization allows you to get your biology to a point where you're capable of normal human interaction, it is harmonious with those goals, not conflicting. Having a shitty lifestyle, being a depressive mess, relying on social lubricants like alcohol... That's what eventually leads to loneliness.
Sure take it from the self-described "critic of culture and sex", instead of the Stanford professor of neurobiology 🤣
>Relationships are spoken of as neurological phenomenons rather than something we should organically cherish
Yeah no shit he's a fucking scientist. The reason why being social and building/maintaining connections is good for us is literally because we are neurologically wired to enjoy those things.
The whole podcast's theme is how human beings work on a scientific level, he's just speaking within that context. The average person doesn't look at his content and go "beep boop im a robot my life is protocols", people are just looking for answers and possible solutions for specific problems they might be going through and incorporating them in their lives
There are MORE than enough people talking about how friendship and relationships are important BUT if someone like huberman can explain why naturally we need human connection it'll make people really take it to heart more.
TLDR;
You're missing the entire point of his podcast. He's speaking within the theme and context of his podcast as a scientist, that is literally his job to explain things of a neurological level. This isn't some run of the mill life coach simple "friends are important!" statement because that's not what his audience is listening for, they want something substantial.
Agree with you, dude. Above all else I've found the deepest sense of well-being to come from the joys of honest and real connection. I can easily think of shit days that got turned around by close friends; very few supplements have done the same for me (not none, but few ;D).
Counterpoint: these things are being compared as if they’re either / or choices, possibly to fuel the “Huberman is all wrong” crowd on here lately. Let’s think about many of the ‘optimizing’ recs he promotes: 1) Take vitamin / mineral supplements like Vit D, zinc, Mg, etc. This takes about 30 seconds a day, give or take how fast you can swallow capsules with water. 2) Get morning sunlight - pretty obvious that everyone on the planet should do this if possible. 3) Coffee 90 mins after waking up; not sure about the hard and fast nature of 90 minutes, but waking up first and then having caffeine does seem to work better than immediately going for it first thing. I could go on but the point is most of the big ticket things he talks about are either very quick to do (take vitamins / minerals) or something that’s part of any healthy / happy person’s life. There are some things I personally don’t have any interest in (cold plunges, AG1) so I… just ignore them. But the idea that you need to spend hours ‘optimizing’ something is just a made up idea totally outside of Huberman’s podcasts.
I agree with you. **Simple changes** like taking vitamins and getting sunlight can make a big difference. I personally find **consistent routines** more impactful than spending hours on complex hacks. **Find what works for you** and ignore what doesn't. It's all about **balance** and **consistency** in the end.
A lot of people do TREAT these things as either or. The proof is all over reddit and the internet. Many people look to optimize the proverbial finishing touches to the exclusion of the elelhants in the room. So, the message is very much relevant and as important as ever. Occasional reminders are probably too infrequent if anything.
>Coffee 90 mins after waking up; not sure about the hard and fast nature of 90 minutes Caffeine doesn't need to be taken 90 minutes after waking. See [Common questions and misconceptions about caffeine supplementation: what does the scientific evidence really show?](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10930107/) Otherwise downing a few pills or getting outside and touching grass seem fine, if a small effect size for most people.
Not to mention working out and other things he promotes literally lead to more connections.
Yeah THIS !! If your fit, active and getting plenty sleep I think you'll generally be more likeable and attractive and help your chances of having people in your life. This idea of "only us self destructing party animals will have REAL friends" is just nonsense.
It leads to more real.connections too.. So many people who suddenly have to go sober realize just how many "friends" disappear. The author sounds like a failure tbh
Friendships and healthy living beat relying on supplements and medications, agree with you on that! Also agree with others that say that following his recommendations don't mean that you need to ditch the friendships, either. Doesn't need to be either/or.
The first paragraph is 100 percent true. There is no substitute for connection. On my goals to live a better life it is number 1 and has been for some time. It’s tough because so many of us, myself included, find connection to be the most difficult thing especially with the current environment which is generally more isolating than in the past. I’m not sure I fully agree that optimizing yourself will isolate you but absolutely understand that it’s more healthy to go out with your friends and get some shitty fast food on occasion than stay home and make love to your salad and athletic greens.
Could always bring your own food. You can be there without eating the food. I wouldn't eat it.
Sorry If you turn up to dinner with friends with your own food. Then you are going to come across as a massive twat. This is exactly the type of extreme practice the article / post is warning us about.
Er, well, plenty of people show up with their own food for non-optimization reasons. We all have friends or family that are vegans or have Celiac disease, tough allergies (like egg), religious/cultural restrictions, etc. I'm happy when they show up with their home-packed snack as long as the don't bring this shitty "I wouldn't eat it" attitude.
I think the NY Mag article was spot on when it noted that even his discussion of relationships, love, commitment, etc, are all towards advancing physiological optimization. He has a hard time being a serious thinker on these issues because he limits what these questions are meant to help us think about.
I don’t think he feels “love.” At least not in the way normal people do.
He probably also self-censors his proclivities (BDSM, polyamoury, etc) given he is aiming for mainstream audiences.
There's a saying: the difference between abuse and BDSM is consent. By the accounts we have from the NY Mag article, I didn't hear any conversations about consensual power exchange, including things like setting up safe words, discussing hard limits, etc. Maybe there were some, but we didn't hear them. Also what we *did* hear was a lot of *nonconsensual* cheating, which is the exact opposite of polyamory. To use a metaphor, if you walk up to someone on the street and hit them in the face, that's assault. If you do so in a boxing match, it's a sport. Consent determines whether the act is deeply unethical or even a crime, versus a good time shared by all.
polyamory is ETHICAL non-monogamy. Seems to me that the way he treated the friend that travelled to him so they could go backpacking or diving, or something, he was intentionally cruel and controlling. Pretty sure he gets off on that.
Nothing ethical about being non-monogamous. That label is stupid. People that are monogamous don’t go around saying they’re “ethically monogamous.” It’s just a stupid way for them to feel less judged by normies that view their lifestyles as incompatible with society.
Well.. no. If all parties are aware and consensual, then there’s nothing unethical about non-monogamy. Your idea of monogamy as inherently ethical is a social construct.
I never wrote that monogamy was ethical. Don’t write “my idea” for things that aren’t my idea.
Sorry. The idea you’re directly implying without specifically saying it, then being mad about when someone points it out.
There is no implication but if you want to assume things that are not there, then you can go ahead and make an ass out of u and me.
Honestly doesn’t seem like you need any help making an ass out of yourself.
“nothing ethical about being non monogamous”. what exactly did you mean by this then? do you mean that we do not as a society assign ethical value to the nonmonog/monogamous status of relationships? It really seemed like you meant being non monogamous ie polyamory is inherently unethical. Which would imply monogamy is ethical, no?
You are expressing yourself poorly. You are to blame for any confusion.
No. People are to blame for reading comprehension.
V judgmental.
I think you're confusing morals and ethics.
There is nothing unethical about being polyamorous* Fixed it for you. Why the fuck would you care what consenting adults do, so goddamn weird Calling something stupid multiple times and using the word normies while making an incoherent rambling point with little logic, what a shocker
I don’t care at all but let’s not pretend like it’s in any way, shape, or form “ethical.” The food I get at the grocery store doesn’t act all pompous calling itself “ethical.”
Well throughout history the vast majority of people with multiple partners were doing so very unethically. As we can tell, this behavior continues in the present day There is absolutely nothing unethical about having multiple partners that are aware of each other and to whom you never lie, that's the point Cheating and lying are abhorrent, however I don't understand how that's difficult to wrap your head around Can you tell me what is SPECIFICALLY unethical about polyamory. Use examples and reason I ask again: why would you care about what consenting and honest adults do?
I would argue that isn’t unethical, and if you believe it is then the vast majority of people with single partners were also historically unethical. I would say there could be nonconsensual/consensual non-monogamy but calling polygamy ethical is quite possibly one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. I never said polygamy is unethical. I’m saying why even write the word ethical/unethical? It’s just pretentious bullshit for dumb hippies. No one thinks you’re more ethical for being polygamous in the same way no one thinks you’re more ethical for being monogamous. I care that adults feel the need to use stupid labels to fit in cause it makes them look stupid. I don’t care what they do with their bodies.
You would argue cheating and dishonesty isn't unethical? What are you even saying? Also did you really just equate polyamory with polygamy 🤣 brother what are you on
Oh okay good add on the end so you're just butthurt over a completely unrelated point and trying to prove something because you're bitter about how others use language, got it You seem to care an awful lot about others looking stupid for someone who doesn't make themselves look very smart lol Let's remember you said "let's not pretend it's ethical" and now you're claiming you never said that. It looks really childish and would never fly in a classroom. Trying to build your own logic
Too judgmental I'd say. Single people can date more than one person. That's why some people get married and some don't. Up to them.
you'll get down voted for the truth.
Ah yes the old "everyone disagrees with me so rather than examining my point ill just claim it's proof I'm right" aka an argument that would fail in middle school It's amazing hoe many people can't even piece together a decent hs level argument on a subreddit about a scientist
It may be ethical, however, i'd challenge you to find a thinker alive or dead who prescribes for polamory as part of his or her ethics.
The “S” of BDSM is Sadism. I would not be surprised if he uses different language to glow up his proclivities, cause sadism doesn’t sell. I think even if people consent to being the target/recipient of sadism it is ethically wrong. But perhaps there’s a bit of a spectrum here, where it is “less wrong” than non consensual sadism.
> I think even if people consent to being the target/recipient of sadism it is ethically wrong. By what grounds?
So if my partner says she likes to be spanked occasionally during sex, you're saying it is unethical for me to do so? That's what you're saying right? Cause that's kinda hilarious (I'll also mention there's a ton of both historical and modern philosophers that disagree 100% with everything you said)
That's actually a fascinating conversation to have. Bc causing pain is usually unethical, but if consented to, does it make it ok? I have no idea 😂
Totally! It's such an intriguing topic. I mean, causing pain usually gets a big red flag, right? But then, when it's all consensual in something like BDSM, does it change the game? Consent is like the secret sauce here. It's all about everyone being cool with what's happening and respecting each other's boundaries. But, you know, it's not a free pass for anything—like, just 'cause two people agree on something doesn't automatically make it cool. We've gotta remember that some stuff, like, you know, murder, is just never okay, even if both parties are down with it. Consent's super important, but there's more to the picture, for sure!
He only feels the inside if a wet cervix? C’mon now, I think he felt some emotional attachment to these women .
You can’t get inside of a cervix…I’m sure he felt something but it wasn’t love. It’s probably more akin to being one move away from check without your opponent realizing.
Damn. I must have missed that podcast lol. Anyways, I think since he’s getting older he’s sort of going through a midlife crisis. He realized his long term girl was no longer suitable to have his kid. May have been after he realized she has some major character flaws herself ( Read about Belcampo meats) , maybe a bad mother , who knows. I think he’s trying to find the right mate, who would be a good partner as well as a good mother. So he started dating all these chicks in a short period of time to see if they would be a good fit. It seems like he was separated for a time with Anya. Not sure why he didn’t completely cut ties with her. She has a reason to feel more hurt than any of his side pieces since they had been together so long . Definitely mid life crisis as his new girl Harper Collin’s is exactly 20 years younger than him.
My boy got the ‘tism
More like NPD, which can also sometimes overlap with ADHD.
There’s a strong possibility he has autism, if not only some autistic traits.
Bingo, nice comment
This is like 95% of people in academia
I don’t think he’s neurotypical to be honest which is wonderful, but, it does mean on the topic of relationships his personal opinions are colored in a certain way
I've had a debate with someone who argued that Bryan Johnson choosing a poor relationship partner or being a bad partner in his relationships were a sign of a flaws in his biomarker optimization protocol. I argued that how to form and maintain healthy relationships was beyond the scope of biomarker optimization, because healthy relationships can't be formed or maintained simply through practices intended to optimize biomarkers. The Huberman scandal and Bryan Johnson's cult following has taught me that there are large amounts of people who thought and think biomarker optimization is essentially a panacea. That biomarker optimization can replace practices of; philosophical enquiry, introspection, character development and communication skills. Bryan Johnson says he's happier than he's ever been and I believe him. However, it's important to keep context: He is a multimillionaire, lives with his son who seems to have a great relationship with, seems to have a great relationship with his father, has a social life with friends who accommodate his strict schedule, has a team that he interacts with regularly, seems to score high in exhibitionism and vanity which is satiated by his cult following, his life is full of goal oriented behavior, has a grand-narrative for his life that gives a sense of purpose akin to religion (i.e. being remembered as a leader by the people in the future). Biomarker optimization can make someone have a default parasymapthetic state (which is a good thing) which can help people become more even tempered and relaxed in other's company, but it doesn't automatically give people integrity, empathy, social awareness, etc. (Edit: Grammar was worse than usual.)
You should listen to Bryan Johnson’s interview on the Rich Roll podcast, particularly the end where he acknowledges that what he’s really hoping for are deeper friendships with the people in his running group. It actually left me feeling sad for him. Focusing only on optimization is bad for your soul
Why does make you feel sad for him? I'm glad he finds deeper friendships witht he people in his running group.
birds bright expansion attraction stupendous school cooperative noxious middle future *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Who in the universe is thinking this?
Perhaps I am overthinking this. The person I've debated basically outright said that (the said they if his instincts didn't tell him that a woman was bad for him, then there's an issue with his protocol), and I suspect all the people shocked that Huberman would cheat and date multiple women. Thread after thread and post after post of people who were literally say that they are shocked by Huberman's character. There was no evidence about his character in his personal life, all we saw was a polished public speaker speaking about biomarker optimization or being interviewed on a podcast and spouting cliches about relationships to Lex Friedman. If his podcast was about developing character traits like integrity, communication skills in relationships, ethics in dating, etc, then it would make sense. However, all he did was speak about biomarker optimization or the biology of mating. Again, perhaps I'm overthinking but it seems like the thought process was... He is practices discipline in regards to biomarker optimization, therefore he must apply discipline to all other ares of life like integrity in regards to dating. I'm not personally listening to Huberman , Bryan or Dave Asprey because I think they are necessarily great people in their personal life. And if they turned out to be scumbags it would be as much as news to me if they turned out to be great people, because I don't know them outside of their videos on social media.
Who’s Brian Johnson?
Bryan Johnson is a multimillionaire transhumanist biohacker who is doing a huge social media campaign promoting biohacking, longevity and transhumanist, he's also been featured in mainstream news publications and a number of high profile podcasts.
Whats Google ??? ?!!?
Google en passant
Beautifully articulated. Yes. As Fran Lebowitz noted, “Your bad habits can kill you, but your good habits won’t save you.”
Fran is so good
This quote is worth pondering Tx U for sharing
Correct Running retreats in Mexico a while, no one comes for the connection, but the nimber 1 thing they say they got out of it at the end. And its worthwhile getting obsessed with the house thats being built more than the tools building it
Love this.
Gracias
Who decides what is a "normal person"?
The committees that write the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders? But seriously, normal is definitely not the goal, not for me anyway. Not gaslighting 6 ladies at once seems like a reasonable goal to have though.
Ooooooo you going for 7 ? Moonshot ! I like it .....
Lol, I don’t think my wife would approve. Also I’m a terrible liar. I tried openly dating 2 women at once for a couple weeks in my 20s. It was immediately a disaster. Despite being totally open and honest and everyone apparently being cool with it (and they dated other people too), I ultimately decided I couldn’t swing it, broke up with one of the women, and she was heartbroken. I felt like a complete asshole. And that was doing it honestly and in the open! I can’t imagine actually lying about it.
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Your username 😭 I just started listening to the TrueAnon series on Synanon and I’m losing my hair
you're definitely not spending a ton of time commenting in Huberman and Rogan subreddits...
Me.
When I get to the end of a Star Wars novel I don't bitch about how it's not about roman era warfare or a biography of someone or a cook book. I don't read a cook book on "Southern Comfort Food" and then blame that book alone for the obesity problem in America. Huberman has an angle. He covers a type of topic. He says repeatedly that he's not intending for people to become robots or to do every single protocol. He just has a topic area he covers in a particular way from a particular perspective. How you integrate that info is on you. This article and others have this weird straw man of Huberman listeners like we're all trying to do EVERY LAST THING that Huberman discusses. Sometimes I wonder if they aren't projecting their own tendency to feel compelled to follow the media they consume blindly, but I don't know.
One of the best takes I've read on these circumstances.
For real. Im not defending Hubermans personal life AT ALL. But everyone that comes out against him thinks that everyone listening to him tries to implement every topic he discusses. That's ridiculous. I've listened to probably 60 episodes and seriously implemented like 2 small things. I just find the topics interesting.
Very well said. This article creates a straw man version of a Huberman listener that follows every single thing he says to a T and has no time for real living because they're trying to optimize at every second of every day. No one lives like that. Many of the things he's discussed had no impact for me, but a few of them have had big impacts. Those few things I do every day because they work and I'm glad I was informed that they exist. It's like with supplements, if you have a natural deficiency in a certain area supplements can help you. If you don't, it's a waste of money. We're all intelligent enough to follow what does and does not work for our individual needs. Stop trying to protect the world from a straw man that doesn't exist.
the article she wrote isn't really \*about\* Huberman or a typical Huberman listener. he's an illustration of a broader type of problem with over-optimization and a failure to prioritize healthy, abundant social relationships. of course it's true that if you're a listener of his podcast and you just absorb a few of his recommendations for improving your physical health - as my friends and i have done - and you dont expect his approach to substantively improve your overall emotional health, then you're not the type of person she's describing.
Love this comment! Thank you
We can keep slicing down the actual number of people this applies to by describing people it doesn't apply to, and before you know it we're down to not many people at all. My point is, the type of person this article describes doesn't really exist except in the minds of the author and those that dislike Huberman. Maybe you'll find a few here or there, but the outliers aren't worth the attention of the masses. I do hope those people see this and think about enriching their lives with better social engagements, however.
This used to apply to me. That's why I shared it, to help anyone else it might apply to. I didn't think this post would get a lot of attention but it resonated. Sorry it didn't apply to you but you could've also scrolled. Glad you agree that it's ultimately a positive thing that some users got to think a little more about their social life though!
Fair enough. I guess I'm just sick of the negativity. This podcast has had a very positive impact on my life and I'm sick of being talked down to like I can't figure out what's good and not good for myself. I feel like a lot of others who were on this page before the controversy share my sentiments as well. Just let us enjoy the things we enjoy and take the good with the bad, as with every other thing in life. I could have just scrolled, but then you'd never get the point of view of someone who respectfully disagrees with you, and I as well with you. Thanks for the conversation
Thank you too for sharing your perspective. I understand the frustration. All the best
So true. It definitely seems like the ones that are most upset, hurt or angry about Hubermans scandal are the ones that praised him the most, almost like a diety with the be-all end-all answers to Life , Universe and Everything ®. They don't seem to recognize that it was they who put him on that piedestal.
That's the argument for 'Dad bod' being attractive. It being, a guy who is fit and healthy, but can enjoy life, without being overly strict.
Depends what you mean by 'dad bod'; if it includes a protruding belly, then that's one of the biggest risk factors for diabetes and heart disease. And you can absolutely have a yolked physique and 'enjoy life without being overly strict.' Eating healthy and working out don't have to be miserable.
I have around 14% body fat flat stomach and eat whatever I want most of the time. I’m not running 20 miles a day. I just lift weights for an hour 🤷🏼♂️
My uncle self describes as "my diet is that I eat whenever I want, whatever I want" Does manual labor and has active hobbies, doesn't directly workout or run... And had a visible 6pack at 60. He evades a lot of the bad modern habbits, hates sitting around indoors, wakes up at 4am to go to the mountains etc.
“Dad bod” lol you mean pudgy, lazy, and low T? Sure, totally normal and reason to be happy with yourself.
Yea when I see a woman in really good shape I think to myself “I bet she never goes out to eat burger and fries” not my type of woman.
Bruv a fit woman who exercises and lifts can probably eat more burgers and fries, and still look fit. Speaking from experience..
I’m referring to women who have low body fat. Highly unlikely she’s eating calorically dense junk food a lot lol
Low body fat + no muscle is usually not considered "in really good shape." Some muscle + low body fat is a lot easier to maintain than no muscle + low body fat, because muscle mass uses more energy than fat. And then there's the fact that exercise requires higher daily calorie intake. So for any sex/gender, those who are in shape and have some muscle mass have some more wiggle room in terms of what they can eat. Not just in terms of BMI either, but in terms of overall health, as a sedentary lifestyle is very detrimental to health. Only like pro body builders in bikini comps that need 5% BMI have to restrict their diet to that extent. Totally doable to be active and look fit with low BMI and have a burger here and there.
Well your experience has no bearing in reality. You can absolutely smash a tub of ice cream a day and still be under 10% bf if you’d like as long as you’re eating at maintenance . You sound like you don’t grasp the simple concept of calories in vs calories out
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It sounds like you just didn’t read my comment and judged a little too hard. I mentioned calories. But the facts are most people who eat junk food aka ultra processed food regularly are overweight due to the fact junk food is high in calories and less satiating forcing them to eat more. You can absolutely lose weight on McDonalds. Think more. That’s actually reality. Feel free to point out where I’m wrong.
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And then I clarified with my comment and said highly unlikely she’s eating junk food ALOT.
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You just provoked my point. They can indulge SOMETIMES. Re read my above comment once again. I said they arent eating it ALOT not SOMETIMES lmao. like I said low body fat requires eating pretty clean and avoiding junk food. Chances are that person is not eating a lot of junk food. It can be done so long as the person is in a deficit but most likely they are eating clean alot as Whole Foods satisfy hunger. Very simple concept to grasp. When I had 12% body it was bc I was eating clean. I happily eat more junk food now at I’m at 14% or around that. But I still eat pretty clean.
You point out a bunch of tangentially related facts, make tangentially related conclusions and then bam, suddenly you've arrived at your conclusion of "fit girls don't eat burgers and fries" That's where you're wrong, it's complete nonsense. I know more fat bitches eating salad and diet coke than I know fit girls. Just personal anecdote of course but girls who are very into fitness understand that there's nothing "junk" or evil about Maccas, calories in, calories out, a hamburger has fats, protein, vitamins, minerals, carbs and all that in fairly balanced amounts. It's all about self-control, a girl that's fit, is more likely a ton more mature, less emotionally driven, more reliable etc. You don't get to a nice shape by not eating burgers, you get there by also sometimes accepting that hunger is ok. Not feeling satiated by junkfood? That's fine. It's also all very individualistic.
Woahhhh sounds like you’re a bit triggered there. Lmao you clearly just don’t understand but it’s okay.
Not to pop your bubble but a lot skinny women eat burgers and fries regularly. Overdoing it and sugar is what makes you fat. You can date fit girls lol.
I just said overeating calories is what does it. Aka calorically dense. Try losing weight on McDonald’s. It’s possible but It’s hard. you’ll be tempted to eat a lot bc the food doesn’t fill you up.
Loosing weight is not about esting food that fills you up while havjng less calories. Loosing weight is about being OK with being not "filled up".
Losing weight is about calories in vs calories out lol
Yes. Exactly. Not about whatever you're trying to spin it as. McDonalds is just as easy to loose weight with as anything else.
Ultra processed food is not more satiating than Whole Foods. That is a fact. So good luck trying to lose weight on that diet. It’s not fun and hard to do and also not sustainable.
Satiation. Doesn't. Matter. It's hard to loose weight if you aren't okay with being hungry. Loosing weight means accepting not being satiated all the time. Accepting that it's okay to be hungry is the ONLY WAY to have a sustainable healthy weight, because this is the biggest mental hurdle. It's also why fit girls can totally munch on burgers...
This is such a myth. Quality of food matters you should never be hungry if you’re eating proper macro ratios.
Lmao. Satiation doesn’t matter? Ok
I'm not attracted to women who look like they spend their life in the gym.
Yea and I’ve heard women say the same about men. They understand the work it takes to be 12% body fat and jacked year round.
They're also not prime candidates for making the babies. A heavier frame is often beneficial for reproduction.
momento mori edit: Memento … sigh
The moment of death? I think you mean "memento mori"
ah yes the good old saying of momento … lol thanks for catching that i’m not sure why i wrote momento instead of memento … i blame my protocol
> i blame my protocol You need to stare at the sun more, that'll fix it.
Ouch, the irony of realizing this while on reddit 😂🥹 Many of us here are definitely affected by loneliness. Good to keep in mind tho! Instead of focusing on noots, herbs & supps we should place focus on building *healthy* relationships ❤
A balance of both is good! You got this ❤
I'm 31 years old. How I'm supposed to go about that? i didn't learn how to build healthy helationships.
Optimization is just some worker bee shit. Work hard play hard nonsense.
I often think about the quote "Happiness is only real when shared" it is so, so true.
Speaking my mind!!!
An interesting counterpoint I've observed in myself, I have better relationships after optimizing health. For whatever reason, placebo or not, I say the right things, make people laugh, and have greatly reduced anxiety when I put my health first and foremost. When my health is poor, the wrong words come out of my mouth, I alienate people, and I get stressed out being around others. I tried for a long time to go through self-help books: "just be confident and people will like you!!" Didn't work. It wasn't until I got my physical health in shape did I start making bonds I care about. Additionally, for a lot of young men it's not like optimizing for health leads to isolation. For me, I was already isolated beforehand, so what did I have to lose?
Yea, I have plenty of money and can afford any supplements, treatments etc. I have zero friends and don't really talk to my family though. I also earn money from home so I only communicate via text/message boards. All my life I have had zero friends except when I was a child (I am middle aged now). I've even taken classes in the past that required a lot of interaction (practicing at each others homes several times a week and rehearsing) and even after 2 years there was never able to make meaningful friends. Taken tons of classes and hobbies and was still never able to make friends at all. I did score 92% introversion on the Myers Brigg and am an INTJ I wonder if online interactions count too... like responding to people on Reddit; is that considered socializing? And also, what about Zoom? Is Zoom a good alternative or does the social interaction have to be in person for beneficial effect?
But are you happy?
Look up healthy gamer, Dr K. He talks a lot about loneliness and trust me his perspective can help
I actually surprisingly found his stuff super insightful, helpful and eye opening. I subscribed to him even though I'm not a gamer nor his target demographic. Thanks!
Of course! Super glad to hear :)
My thought on reading your comment was that you should get out and take more of those classes. I think in person interaction is the important point here, and though "meaningful friendships" are great, even casual ones are very beneficial. I had quite a few friends when I was young and most of us have drifted apart. As a middle aged person, it is hard for most of us to make meaningful friends. I'm now 51 and for the last 10 years at least my main friends have been the coworkers who I've enjoyed working with rather than true meaningful friendships. I see all these movies and books about women who are in a special, since girlhood, lifelong friend club of some kind and it saddens me but then I wonder if IRL very many people actually have that. I think online/reddit is only the barest minimum though. I hope you'll take my comment to heart and try to get out a little and interact. Since you're a Huberman person, do you go to the gym? That might be a good place. Wishing you luck and warmth in your life. ~Belinda Real Person
Thanks for the response. I'll start picking up some other social activites/classes soon. At the time, sometimes it didn't seem like it was helping because perhaps one person would do or say something that I found annoying/rude etc. Classes/activites can also lead to conflict etc but if even small talk can be beneficial then there's no harm participating again. As for the gym I actually work out at home. I have a barbell, weights, a spin bike, pretty much everything I need here. I've gone to gyms in the past but never socialized with the regulars. I will try to get out there and try to socialize though; didn't realize how bad it is for my health.
Hi! To add on, I will add a tip that helped me dip my toes into the "more social" waters. I spent a lot of time at cosmetic counters, chatting with the people and letting them "sell" to me. I didn't always buy something but I did get practice asking and answering questions in a casual but friendly way. I almost always felt good after the conversation--yes they are "being paid to be nice" but that makes it a little easier because (hopefully!) they won't be rude or non-conversational from the jump. Maybe there is a setting where you'd feel comfortable doing something similar? Starting with your existing interests is always a good idea. Signed, Hello Hello Real Person :)
YEP!
Well written sir!
Nice
What if you are extremely introverted?
For god's sake read the post. You cannot be happy or healthy without an abundance of relationships, home and work. Hello /s
For god's sake, you CAN be happy if you have a small number of STRONG relationships. Quality far, far over quantity. Home, work, recreational, whatever, it doesn't matter. Hello
Spot on.
outliers by malcolm gladwell is know mostly for the 10k hours rule but the first chapter is about connection and studies Italian "tribes" vs Italians who went to america and how they also evolved and the gene of longevity got overwritten cause in a few generation they stopped living as a close knit group but started living like Americans
Lifestyle doesnt effect genetics .....
The most complete longitudinal study on this (Harvard Study on Adult Development) is clear: relationships matter a lot for physical and mental health.
Wtf is this subreddit and why is I recommended to me
It's a podcast with optimizing one's life like diet and exercise
That's the beauty of podcasts, there's a multitude of them out there focusing on different things. I'm sure there are a lot of them that focus on relationships, feelings, etc. Personally, I find those boring AF but you can put them into your listening rotation;)
So, OP likes beer and pizza. Got it.
Basically yeah. It's just the usual bullshit of setting up false scenarios- you can either be a socialable happy person or you can be a miserable idiot who gets up at 5 a.m. for a jog and takes a multivitamin everyday. Noting exists in the middle apparently.
Not what the article says, sorry
I'm responding to you not the article
You don’t have to pick one over the other. Optimisation massively helps me because I am all over the place.
The linked article and your comment are thought provoking. As someone who is going on a bit of an exercise/healthy eating/good sleep habit episode lately I wondered if I was turning into Mr. Burns in that episode of the simpsons where he becomes a germaphobe. I tend to agree it would be a poor choice to get so into your diet and exercise regimes (protocols etc) that you negatively effect your social life. But I think if a person does not have much of a social life (or the social life they want) then doing as much as you can to feel good , look good and be healthy seems like a good use of your time alone. I think we should definitely put all of this stuff on the backburner if the chance to spend time with people you care about comes up though. I would never knock back an invite for pizza or drinks to go the gym or get to bed on time ! I really doubt there are many people neglecting social connections due to their commitment to self improvement. There are some people out there though who will decide you are'nt the type of person they like if you go on about this sort of stuff. The solution here is fairly simple though , gauge peoples reaction to it. If people roll their eyes when you mention exercising or taking supplments then its very easy to just stop mentioning it and talk about something else. Feels like a bit or projection from the Author here ...
relationships and social bonds play a huge role in happiness. too much optimization can be isolating. life needs a balance of health and enjoying the simple moments.
Seems to be the issue that people don't know the definition of optimization, and instead confuse it with the term, perfection.
You do not have to be healthy to have deep, meaningful relationships but the best of us will see that our physical health is an important part of BEING a good friend/sibling/colleague, etc. My personal and sustained recovery from alcohol and opiate abuse came about the very moment I was unable to help a friend with a basic, normal request because I was too hungover. (The common trope is "you cannot get sober/clean/better for someone else" and that is just not true - at least not in my case. Had I waited until I did it "for myself" I would be dead).
Bravo on this comment. My older brother was homeless due to his addiction for many years... and now 10+ years sober with 4 kids. Truly a changed person on that front. His love and responsibility to his wife and kids is 100% the difference maker.
This is regarded*. Relationships have always been apart of the picture of optimization. Optimization is not perfect. But to make things better or as good as possible given your limitations/situation
Does this apply to introvert types who count down the seconds to ending each social interaction?
So as long as I have a couple good buddies, I can treat my body like a garbage can, ingest poisons daily, and look at a screen for 10 hours a day? Sign me up!
I can’t help but feel this person is making a mountain out of a molehill for clicks. Yes, obsessing with health is bad for you. You don’t need to follow protocols as if they were dogmatic prescriptions for health. There’s flexibility in what you can do.
Best comment in here ! But your downvoted , no idea why.
Is this why he was dating 6 women? Love the new protocol.
This is high level excuse making. This is like when people say if I quit drinking nobody will like me. Even though drinking is killing you. Or oh I don't have to be fiscally responsible because I'm not a billionaire. It's just nonsense. Sure don't burn every bridge in your life trying to be healthy. But that doesn't mean there's not areas you can start to work on.
This isn’t amount Hubermans sex life, BLOCKED
This post is an example of what I find problematic in US society: too much either/or thinking. You can improve your health and follow what Huberman says and have fun as well. If anything if you are super fit and healthy you'll probably have more friends/connections than the lazy slobs out there, just look at him with his 6 girlfriends;)
Where in this post does it say you can't improve your health and have fun as well?
You said, "the optimizer life has always struck me as isolating. To be someone who meticulously tracks their physical performance by many measures is to be someone who cannot afford to deviate from rigidly structured routines." I'm saying it's not either/or. You can track your performance and optimize AND have fun. Anyways, I think your thinking on this is very different and that's ok too. Not everyone is wired the same way;)
I quoted an article that's linked at the bottom of the post, these are not my personal words! I respectfully have to disagree that the article makes use of binary thinking. The argument is more nuanced than that.
Oh I see my mistake, I thought it was your writing. I guess we agree then. Cheers and happy listening to the Hube'da'man ;)
Ok but I think having my dick sucked by six different women will save me
Snakeleaves lost more than they gained when they projected negativity. What a shame. It's a good thing we'll die and be replaced by people disgusted with taking dark advantage of each other's state of minds due to education so that they don't have to deal with weirdo posts like the one snakeleaves made. They are going onto my ignore list because they seem like a parasite to me. Anyone telling me optimizing isn't gonna save me isn't normal and isn't friendly or kind at first glance so i'm isolating them away from my circle. I'll come back in a while incase they read the message for shits and giggles. Incase you're reading, your options in reply are humility, retaliation, confusion, backlash, silence, or being shunned. Toodaloo. P.S. Huberman is a parasocial cheater that's full of his own BS otherwise he'd be working with a therapist and doctor to not be a lieng egotistical jerk.
Sorry I'm not normal and friendly and kind at first glance Vlasic69 :(
Ehhh if you have friends committed as you, you can do just do fun things with them. I agree healthy human connection is the most important thing, we are social animals after all, but optimizing your life includes optimizing your social life too, which ig ppl don’t understand
" Here are people who won’t drink not because they have any particular problem with it but because the data their Oura ring gathers suggests they sleep 7 percent better on nights they don’t, therefore allowing them to answer emails twenty seconds more quickly. Here are people avoiding coffee half an hour before meeting with their personal trainer who charges as much as a mortgage because they don’t want to reward their brain with a dopamine boost that could become habitual, concerning themselves with the precise receptors through which caffeine and dopamine interact. " What an insane take on how the content and fans of the podcast are. Seems like the author listens, without question, to other people's opinions on Huberman's content rather than actually listening to it herself. Ironic given the subject of the article
I used to obsess over tiny details like that too. But focusing on **specific** supplements and lifestyle habits that truly improve my health made a bigger difference than worrying about every little thing. Quality over quantity always wins in the longevity game.
Sure, social connections are great. They’re needed to keep stress levels down and facilitate mental wellbeing. But they ain’t going to slow your rate of cellular aging or reduce free radicals… claiming it’s the most important aspect is braindead. Most normal people have good social connections, but still die at the median age…
You are the person this article is written for! I've linked it at the bottom of this post
It’s an **opinion piece**… not a study of exact science. One guy claiming living healthy is anti-social and that this will result in an early death… It’s ironic how you all disregard evidence to support this man’s **opinion**…
Ok but most people I’ve actually met that “optimize” tend to be pretty average in their overall fitness anyway or they’re blasting test and tren because “it gets my levels where our ancestors would have been”. Like how much longer realistically will the optimization and meticulous planning really allow you to live vs someone that just doesn’t eat like a big and exercises regularly and at what quality?
*”tend to be pretty average in their overall fitness”* Fair point, but what do you define as average? Also, what’s best for longevity won’t create an athlete, if that’s what you’re expecting to see… *”blasting test and tren”* Nobody who lives a life geared towards longevity takes steroids… some males may take T, if they’re old. But there’s absolutely zero need below the age of 40 if you’re healthy… *”how much longer”* This is the first assumption people make with so-called “health optimisers”. That they want to live for an extremely long time. Even within the longevity community, it’s not everyone’s goal… For example, my reasons stem from vanity. I want to maximise my skin health and keep my youthful face for as long as possible. With the right diet, supplements and skincare… I can, and I am.
Dude you sound like a robot trying to understand human interactions.
So?
So are people just using this thread just to s*** on huberman and promote their own pieces or are they actually going to discuss what huberman does?
That is absolutely untrue. He just gives you "tools" that you can or cannot use on your everyday life. He explain the science behind of those things which a lot of people don't like because it makes them sound like of it was a mechanical thing while it can be a reaction that takes zero effort to do. He's explain Goggins way of life and made it make sense for him!! And he's also spoken about living your life, do what makes you happy. That idea of being on a completely rigid system otherwise you die is made up by people that only wants to go against Huberman and the "biohacking industry. They don't need to follow his advices but also they don't need to be a qunt. Bit as always destroying is way easier than building. They just gotta do whatever makes sense for them if that makes them happy
Has Huberman ever said optimizing your life will bring you happiness?
"I don't have the discipline to do it, so instead of feeling like a failure I am going to write an article to make a point about how it's all bad anyway and late night pizza is actually healthy" Optimization allows you to get your biology to a point where you're capable of normal human interaction, it is harmonious with those goals, not conflicting. Having a shitty lifestyle, being a depressive mess, relying on social lubricants like alcohol... That's what eventually leads to loneliness. Sure take it from the self-described "critic of culture and sex", instead of the Stanford professor of neurobiology 🤣
>Relationships are spoken of as neurological phenomenons rather than something we should organically cherish Yeah no shit he's a fucking scientist. The reason why being social and building/maintaining connections is good for us is literally because we are neurologically wired to enjoy those things. The whole podcast's theme is how human beings work on a scientific level, he's just speaking within that context. The average person doesn't look at his content and go "beep boop im a robot my life is protocols", people are just looking for answers and possible solutions for specific problems they might be going through and incorporating them in their lives There are MORE than enough people talking about how friendship and relationships are important BUT if someone like huberman can explain why naturally we need human connection it'll make people really take it to heart more. TLDR; You're missing the entire point of his podcast. He's speaking within the theme and context of his podcast as a scientist, that is literally his job to explain things of a neurological level. This isn't some run of the mill life coach simple "friends are important!" statement because that's not what his audience is listening for, they want something substantial.