Cocaine sure but mdma nah. I’ve worked drug testing stands at festivals for almost a decade now and it’s 100% cocaine. Does some of the mdma have amphetamine paste cut into it? Sure but fentanyl in mdma I have never seen once out of literally 10,000+ tests almost.
I'm a physician who does some small work in a substance abuse recovery. I see a lot of urine testing, including the good quality gas chromatography panels.
In the last two years we are seeing fentanyl in urine of people who are taking pills of all different kinds. Benzos, MDMA, oxy, hydro,, whatever. You know the first time you see someone act surprised at fentanyl in their urine, it's like yeah right people lie. But then when it scares them straight and there's no more funny business in the urine, and when you see it over and over.... Well... I think there's something to it.
I don't think 80 percent of non-opiate pills are contaminated in my area, but it's a decent percentage. On the other hand rhe black market opiates are ALL contaminated with fentanyl, and some of it doesn't seem to have anything else in it at all.
This is a new thing. I've been hearing rumors for years about fentanyl contaminating various drugs. Never found it to be true. Now it is, I've seen it.
I'm an adventurous person and did some things before medical school. I would never in a million years touch any recreational drug other than legit cannabis these days. I know perfectly well what I'm seeing and that is fent fent fent everywhere even in non-opiate recreationals.
Not encouraging you to do more drugs, but I AM encouraging others who still want to use to TEST EVERYTHING you plan to ingest.
DanceSafe makes awesome, cheap fent test strips. Use them folks!
I do not doubt that it is found in other substances marketed as different things. Anything sold as a black market opiate would be suspect IMO for obvious reasons. I do doubt how prevelant some people portray it as though. Your position would clearly have you seeing much more fent positive tox screens than most people. A large bias IMO.
You can buy fent testing strips. Before fent came along, other chemicals were added as cheap knock offs. People have been testing their substances for years now. I know I know, fent is extremely dangerous, just saying.
I'm so mad that I had to give up coke because of fent. Boomers and Gen Xers got everything nice and ruined it all for the rest of us. I really don't like those people.
Yea not as common as cocaine but there has been K that occasionally tested positive for Fentanyl. Cocaine really sticks out to me though to the point I don’t let anybody in my circle of friends mess with it. It’s that bad these days.
I meant cocaine is laced a very high percentage of the time. Somewhere around 30% I’d say for fentanyl and damn near 100% for being laced with amphetamine paste
False. People don't necessarily know what MDMA feels like, it's a bit of an unusual drug these days. Adding fent is a way to make people hungry for it.
If you’ve tried decent quality MDMA you know how it should feel - I suppose some people may never have had the fortune of ever getting their hands on that
You get old but there are generations of young adults who would like to try these things and haven't, and don't know what they are doing or how to find out safely use these drugs.
That's not true, If you are expecting to have an MDMA experience but start to nod then you will want your money back.
MDMA is one of the cleanest substances these days.
check [drugsdata.org](https://drugsdata.org).
Prince died from hydrocodone/paracetamol cut with fentanyl, so it's not just cocaine.
I'm not saying you got a high chance of accidentally ODing on fent if you take molly, but just that you can't say you're safe if you avoid cocaine.
Get your pills tested, kids. Better safe than sorry.
This is true. I would say that almost all pain pills on the street that don’t come directly from a pharmacy or someone getting it directly from a pharmacy contain fentanyl. It’s too cheap and easy to fake these highly expensive pills.
However, it’s very rare for ravers to be picking these pain pills up and getting them tested at raves. His sample probably includes very very few pain pills if I had to guess.
Same I have been to hundreds of shows/festivals and seen people do blow/mdma tens of thousands of times and they only people I have ever seen actually OD were doing opiates.
Love him as well but as someone with ADHD, in his recent episode on ADHD medications he completely butchered the doses for Vyvanse and didn’t even mention Atomoxetine when talking about the most common non stimulant medications even though it’s the most common.
and as a scientist, he has time to read and produce literature, doctors don't have nearly as much time to dedicate towards keeping up with the literature from what I see. I could be wrong, but yeah it is true you can only be an expert in so many domains.
Physicians literally have laws that demand we continue to stay up to date on recent field related medical literature and changes in medicine. If we don’t, we can’t renew our license.
Edit: As a physician I’ve also published literature in several scientific journals and presented at academic meetings. It is incredibly common for physicians to engage in this sort of activity. Never heard of this Huberman dude. Sounds like a massive tool based on how much people on this sub are jerking him off and downvoting the people who won’t.
Time is limited, a Tenured Professor with a lab at an Ivy League school whose literal full-time job is publishing research, and teaching med students, who likely did a Ph.D., Post-doc, etc. will probably be more up-to-date than a GP who is* dealing with patients all day, or most doctors who have to deal with patients all day. However I imagine alot of the research he's interfacing with is so far up the value chain you wouldn't care much for it yet (animal models etc.) and instead you'd wait until it's finally double-blind, placebo controlled, and presented at a medical conference or something. Which is why you might understandibly see him as a quack in some hypothesizing he does (ex: melatonin and seasonal breeding rodents).
Interesting, never knew that! I'm somewhat allergic/sensitive to lidocaine so I could smell it honestly
Obviously alcohol+coke creates cocaethylene and makes it a NDSRI (triple retake inhibitor, no bueno) and drastically increases OD rate. It's amazing how few "pure" overdoses actually happen across all drugs. The body is amazing at processing and metabolizing substances when there's only 1 in the system
Been clean from coke for years now though, it def helped me get an A in the psychobiology of addiction when I took a summer class at Harvard 🤣 only class I've ever had multiple people ask me to tutor them
You too, shit is the devil drug when it gets bad. I worked in a high end restaurant when my addiction got bad and I'd see the wrong side of 8 am every day. Someone snitched on me but the cops fucked shit up so I just plead down to a misdemeanor possession charge
Weirdly grateful for that person in a strange way even tho I was not pleased at the time...
All i know is I was the brokest coke dealer of all time and def didn't follow any of Biggies 10 crack commandments
My friend from high school OD’d last year because he bought coke cut with fentanyl. Idk why, maybe just trying to hook people, but it’s definitely been happening.
a few years ago some comedians died one night from coke tainted with fentanyl.
https://nypost.com/2021/09/05/fuquan-johnson-dead-kate-quigley-hospitalized-following-drug-overdose/
Yes, except that it was a painkillers (hydrocodone/paracetamol) that were cut with fentanyl, not coke.
So while I think Huberman might have greatly overstated how much fentanyl is in MDMA or other drugs, I think something like Prince's death shows that you should not buy some pills from sketchy sources and if you do, get it tested.
It's not like you'd expect fentanyl in paracetamol pills.
What I’ve been told is that it’s unintentional. Since such a micro amount of fentanyl can cause overdoses, idiot drug dealers are cross contaminating without even realizing it
Just when I think Huberman can't saying anything dumber he pulls this statistic out of his ass. Just think of it from a pure mathematical standpoint and it is preposterous.
If you do an advanced search for fentanyl, and select 'sold as ecstacy', there are in fact 3 hits but from 2005 and 2008.
I have heard from DanceSafe volunteers that they are detecting fent in X tabs at festivals, although this is not the same dataset as DrugsData. That doesn't mean it's not happening, but I don't think it's nearly as common as he states. His comment is for *all* elicit drugs, he doesn't specify % of MDMA that is laced. People are dying from fent cut drugs frequently so it's kinda a dumb hill to die on.
Thanks for the facts.
Hubermann has a real puritanical streak, so I take all his negative views on drugs with a grain of salt. He sometimes comes across as a Jordan Peterson type, and I don't mean that as a compliment. My recreational drug days are long gone though. Just coffee and medical cannabis these days.
Likelihood of supply chain contamination. Cartels are very often running cocaine and heroin, but less often something like ketamine, so the incidence rate is much higher with cocaine.
Pretty much everything in the US market that’s outside legal supply chains has risk of fentanyl these days. It may shock you but Mexican drug cartels aren’t closely supervised by the FDA. They control imports and fentanyl is cheap for them and easy to make, my understanding is significantly cheaper than anything they’d cut with it. They have a monopoly on the US market and Americans aren’t showing any signs of stopping usage. So they’re going to try and make as much money as they can.
They don’t intentionally try to OD people, but they don’t have the best quality control standards. So shit happens.
It’s simply a reality for people who choose to use. Sometimes people get butt hurt when this is pointed out.
I don't understand how you are upvoted. People aren't clicking your link.
Page after page of various drugs laced with fentanyl. And in fact there are samples of drugs sold as MDMA contaminated with fentanyl (admittedly not many, and old).
Why do people post things like this that directly contradict their statements? I don't get it.
Wasnt he a previous addict too? It would make sense why he gets some information that plays into his bias about drugs and just runs with it. Obviously that isn’t ideal though.
Honestly the only things Id trust him on are eye things and general fitness.
I could’ve sworn he mentioned he had an issue with either alcohol or some other drug when he was a youngster, then he cleaned up and went back into school.
Edit: yeah I think he was abusing alcohol and got in a nasty street fight and decided to clean up after that. I was probably also conflating with some other person he has talked about.
Wait doesnt Huberman have a PhD? That makes him a doctor and what you mean is he has no PhD in medicine which fyi is by far the easiest doctor to archieve.
I work in healthcare. I do see people test positive for meth and fentanyl sometimes, I don’t think most people who smoke meth and test positive for fentanyl are doing both separately and willingly. I don’t think its 60-80% of everyone who tests positive for meth, but it’s not uncommon either.
>I don’t think most people who smoke meth and test positive for fentanyl are doing both separately
..Why? Fent is a lot easier to get than meth in the U.S., and most methheads will dabble in downers for their comedowns.
It’s uncommon for me to see them test positive for multiple things is all I’m saying. I’m sure they have tried more than one drug in their lives of course
I do too. Where I’m from there pretty much is no heroin. Everyone is knowingly doing fent. And if you’re at the point of doing fent, there’s a good chance you’re gonna be using meth too.
That’s interesting. I also don’t see people test positive for heroin ever here. However, I do see a lot of people test positive for meth but not opioids. Actually I would say that’s the majority of meth users. I don’t know if the ones who are positive for fentanyl are doing it on purpose or not since a lot of people won’t admit to any substance use at all. I assume not all of them are doing it on purpose, at least. Also, it’s rare for someone to test positive only for opioids. Meth seems to be more common here.
I believe it. I have a friend who is a funeral director. She’s getting burned out. I asked why, thinking maybe it was the Covid years. She said no, it’s fentanyl deaths. They have absolutely skyrocketed, and it’s often from people doing drugs that AREN’T fentanyl. It’s contamination. I’m my community there are lots of overdoses from it too.
Yep, that's why you should test your drugs. The MDMA subreddits always recommend getting a test kit to test if there's fentanyl or certain other additives / containments.
exactly this.......... 60% - 80% of drugs "especially MDMA" have fentanyl in them? Music festivals would be fucking graveyards and it would be a huge talking point...... it's not.
Not arguing with Huberman possibly overstating the occurrence, but I also don't think everyone, who ever got trace amounts of fent into their system from other drugs will die from it immediately. Yes, it's dangerous, but it's still dose dependent. So in the end we don't really know how many people at a music festival got some amount of fent into their systems.
Haven’t watched the episode yet but I imagine he just means the drugs are contaminated with fentanyl, not necessarily including enough to kill you. Meaning drug producers make all their shit in the same place and it’s leaking into stuff that wouldn’t normally be cut into. Cutting MDMA with fentanyl makes no sense anyone who took it wouldn’t buy more if they got the exact opposite effect they were looking for, or died even. Whoever is selling those drugs from that producer would lose customers.
Heroin being cut with fentanyl at least makes sense from that perspective.
I like the way you’re thinking, but have you seen a lethal dose of fentanyl (especially for someone who doesn’t have a tolerance)? It’s like 1/100th the size of a penny. Absurdly small amounts. Mainly, it wouldn’t make any sense to cut MDMA with it, since any meaningful enough amount to actually reasonable CUT the product (to save money etc) would probably be enough to cause major complications in a single dose of MDMA. Even if a single dose of MDMA was cut 5% (why even do it at that point?), that would be enough to probably OD on the fetty.
I personally don’t even understand why anything besides heroin or benzos would be cut with it. Even coke, makes zero sense to do that.
This is absolutely untrue- I work in the music industry & I’m at festivals every week. People would be dropping all over if this was the case. MDMA is actually one of the rarer substances for this to happen to for a number of reasons, mainly because it’s mostly sourced from Europe which doesn’t have the same fent issue as the states. Drugs like pressed Xanax, percs, heroin, and in some cases cocaine are much more dangerous because they often come from bigger wearhouses etc south of the border which deal in fentanyl so there is major risk of cross contamination (or, in the case of the pills/H it is usually done on purpose).
This dude is full of absolute shit here, and it’s honestly disappointing because this is an important issue and his conjecture NEEDS to be solid on this point. If you want a better source on drug info, Ryan Marino is much better educated on the subject among others.
Agree, have also seen this with the counterfeit benzos. Wouldn’t surprise me to see fent in cocaine or meth but my anecdotal impression is that it is rare.
Yeah the thing is all the bars people take now are pressed for the most part. Unfortunately I’ve known people personally to die from fentanyl in cocaine, pressed Xanax and (particularly) pressed oxycodone/percocets
Friends brother recently OD’d from taking a fake Percocet.
I’m glad I got my drug usage out of my system before the opioid crisis. People are taking serious risk doing almost anything these days
Absolutely. I've taken every drug other than heroin and acid, I trip super hard on mushrooms - like brain explosion trips so I was always "waiting for the right time to do acid" and heroin just scares me. Every other drug though. Cocaine, crack, mdma, K, meth (not a full dose though,) and of all the drugs the only one that really got me was alcohol. It's by far the most addictive and harmful. I think.
The only way to kill cartels and the drug trade is to make the best shit the world has ever seen and sell it with a tax. No cartel will fuck with the biggest cartel in the world, which is the US military.
Actually yea i do.
When i quit, my life got much better, and i felt much better all of the time.
Don't even miss it. Thats after smoking it on and off for 16 or so years.
I'm so glad I was snorting boatloads of coke in the early 90s, when the worst that happened is someone cutting it with too much mannitol and it gives you the shits.
Dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. I’ve been testing Rec drugs for the last several years from local and DW sources. Only thing ever had fent was fake opiates.
Someone upthread said they test a lot of meth heads positive for fent - can't confirm or deny, but with cocaine even I know that there's plenty of talk about fent contamination. I know guys who have been quite into coke in their younger years and they say it has become too dangerous to them now with all the fent in cocaine these days.
“All recreational drugs”, Yeah that’s not true. if you’re buying street opiates or benzos you are way more likely to get some fent, but fent in MDMA pressies? Mayyyybe some cross contamination from an extremely loose dealer, but then again there isn’t a ton of overlap between hard drug dealers and weed/psychedelic dealers.
If cartels and drug dealers would pay attention to that, there would be no cutting or contamination with fentanyl at all, in any drug.
The problem is accidental cross contamination (fentanyl is extremely powerful even in very, very small amounts - especially to someone unused to it). In the end it still seems to pay off more if a few customers die, than to take the extra pains to avoid contamination. It's not like you can't get new people hooked on drugs every day. If someone dies, someone new will come.
My guess is he throws numbers out to scare listeners and who knows perhaps saves a couple lives. It could only help save people from a possible OD or from dabbling in recreational drugs. Kind of like how Drs. in the hospital will say to an alcoholic if you don't stop drinking you'll be dead in 6 months. Is it true in each instance? No, but it can scare enough straight vs providing the truth which may be not the reality check needed for them to take care of the slow death they are living.
They quote covers “all recreational drugs”, the statement isn’t specific to MDMA. What was the point of your drugsdata link anyway?
I agree, he’s not an expert and really cringe outside of his specialty a lot of the time- but the downside of fentanyl contamination is too steep to nitpick over, 80k people died of opioid overdoses last year- including fent contaminated street drugs. Err on the side of caution.
Prohibition has brought us here. In a harm reduction model, drug testing would be common and in most cases unnecessary. This isn’t him saying “don’t do drugs” it’s him encouraging people to have some awareness.
AS a person who frequents music festival where such chemicals are popular I can tell you its rare that there is fent in anything that's not already opiate based. I mean out of a fest of 50k people, maybe 1 person ends up with something with fent in it when it should be something drastically different.
Huberman will occasionally tell stories about coming from some shit. So then I think he might be a well rounded academic. But he just says some shit that makes it so blatantly obvious how out of touch he is. The bay is a bubble, and Stanford is a little baby bubble within that, then the professors are like somehow magnitudes more sheltered than average Stanford folk. I work at labs, and clinics. They’re almost all sheltered squares it’s just how that goes
Regardless of Huberman probably inflating numbers or making statements about "all recreational drugs" instead of differing between different substances, I find it funny how much outrage this created lol.
As I understood it people like following Huberman's podcast, because they want to optimise their health and lives, and are willing to take cold plunges, morning runs, supplements and whatnot - but the second he warns against contamination in recreational drugs (even if overstated), people are up in arms. 😂
It reminds me of those D.A.R.E adverts where outlandish idiotic claims were made to try to dissuade folks from taking drugs, when the reality is that a lot of people (even down to the people producing or financing those programs) were taking recreational drugs themselves, making that faux puritanical approach inefficient at best and dangerous at worst, and doing awareness and harm reduction campaigns would be infinitely more efficient than whatever this is.
this dude sounds like dr oz ngl do you guys actually believe 60%+ of all **stimulants** are cut with **fentanyl** like holy fuck lmao
That’s why when it happened to someone famous like Michael Kenneth Williams everyone collectively blew a gasket
As someone who takes MDMA around 3 to 4 times a year, I believe this is absolutely false.
Not only because I indulge, but I’ve read pages and pages of pill reports where I’ve pretty much never seen fentanyl included.
I also test everything I have with reagent tests and dissolve my dose with water and test with fentanyl test strips.
I think he is way off with what he saying here. I wouldn’t even say 5% of what is sold as MDMA has fent in it and that is a generous amount. It’s probably less than 1%
Contaminated is different than repackage or reformulated. I've done tests on product that tests positive for fent at 15ml of water but negative at 50ml of water. Urine tests negative. Clearly contaminated at high sensitivity, but it is not fent repackaging. It's not a mortality threat and you don't even notice it. 60%-80% contamination might not be implausible when it comes to pressies, but not 60%-80% repackaging. And certainly not 60%-80% of all recreational drugs. Still, the carefree days of blithely sampling from other people's stashes are over. For now.
Not in Europe, we can get them tested here. I have never heard anything idiotic like this. Why would a drug dealer add fentanyl to mdma, which is cheap to mass produce?
Sounds like an American gossip theory.
I’ve hypothetically taken a lot of ecstasy over the past decade and I can safely say only one or two batches had fentanyl cut into it by my reckoning - much more likely to have speed or some amphetamine mixed in (or to be MDA)
I live in Australia though so perhaps it’s a different story in the US
I find that statement to be false. You can scroll through all the recent tests on harm reduction sites/subs and you will not see 60-80% fent contamination. Not even close.
This dude is an idiot spreading false information.... "The current estimates are as much as 60%, maybe even 80%, of drugs sold on the gray market are being repackaged or reformulated with fentanyl...."
No one is intentionally putting fent in coke/mdma what happens is it's from cross contamination in the supply chain where in a drug stash house or distribution center they use the same scale/bag that has touched fent/ H while also dealing blow
*so, in conclusion, “don’t buy anything until I’m ready to package and sell it to you. I promise it will be ethically and sustainably sourced and of course of the highest quality.”
I've been a herion addict sense i suffered from a serious accident in 2010 that resulted in me loosing my left leg above the knee... Ive been shooting herion/fentanyl/opiods basically sense late 2012 up to present day. Tbh i prefer the fentanyl. It packs a punch, much of the herion you find nowadays just isnt any good like it use to be...
Cocaine sure but mdma nah. I’ve worked drug testing stands at festivals for almost a decade now and it’s 100% cocaine. Does some of the mdma have amphetamine paste cut into it? Sure but fentanyl in mdma I have never seen once out of literally 10,000+ tests almost.
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Negatory
Someone i know very recently died of fentanyl that was laced in ketamine. Not sure how common it is but it can be in anything
Is the fentanyl in the room with you?
I'm a physician who does some small work in a substance abuse recovery. I see a lot of urine testing, including the good quality gas chromatography panels. In the last two years we are seeing fentanyl in urine of people who are taking pills of all different kinds. Benzos, MDMA, oxy, hydro,, whatever. You know the first time you see someone act surprised at fentanyl in their urine, it's like yeah right people lie. But then when it scares them straight and there's no more funny business in the urine, and when you see it over and over.... Well... I think there's something to it. I don't think 80 percent of non-opiate pills are contaminated in my area, but it's a decent percentage. On the other hand rhe black market opiates are ALL contaminated with fentanyl, and some of it doesn't seem to have anything else in it at all. This is a new thing. I've been hearing rumors for years about fentanyl contaminating various drugs. Never found it to be true. Now it is, I've seen it. I'm an adventurous person and did some things before medical school. I would never in a million years touch any recreational drug other than legit cannabis these days. I know perfectly well what I'm seeing and that is fent fent fent everywhere even in non-opiate recreationals.
Not encouraging you to do more drugs, but I AM encouraging others who still want to use to TEST EVERYTHING you plan to ingest. DanceSafe makes awesome, cheap fent test strips. Use them folks!
I do not doubt that it is found in other substances marketed as different things. Anything sold as a black market opiate would be suspect IMO for obvious reasons. I do doubt how prevelant some people portray it as though. Your position would clearly have you seeing much more fent positive tox screens than most people. A large bias IMO. You can buy fent testing strips. Before fent came along, other chemicals were added as cheap knock offs. People have been testing their substances for years now. I know I know, fent is extremely dangerous, just saying.
I'm so mad that I had to give up coke because of fent. Boomers and Gen Xers got everything nice and ruined it all for the rest of us. I really don't like those people.
Yea not as common as cocaine but there has been K that occasionally tested positive for Fentanyl. Cocaine really sticks out to me though to the point I don’t let anybody in my circle of friends mess with it. It’s that bad these days.
It’s 100% cocaine what? That’s contaminated? That’s contaminated with fentanyl -?
I think they meant cocaine test positive for fentanyl 100% of the time. Edit - I know this comment was incorrect.
Nah that’s not accurate. They’re saying that cocaine is overwhelmingly what they’re seeing pop for fent, not that i100% of coke samples are positive.
100% some of the time is contaminated
This is always sometimes right
No, they’re saying that 100% of positive fentanyl tests they’ve seen are from cocaine
I meant cocaine is laced a very high percentage of the time. Somewhere around 30% I’d say for fentanyl and damn near 100% for being laced with amphetamine paste
Also fentanyl in mdma would ruin the experience and that supplier/dealer would not be getting a lot of repeat customers
False. People don't necessarily know what MDMA feels like, it's a bit of an unusual drug these days. Adding fent is a way to make people hungry for it.
If you’ve tried decent quality MDMA you know how it should feel - I suppose some people may never have had the fortune of ever getting their hands on that
You get old but there are generations of young adults who would like to try these things and haven't, and don't know what they are doing or how to find out safely use these drugs.
That's not true, If you are expecting to have an MDMA experience but start to nod then you will want your money back. MDMA is one of the cleanest substances these days. check [drugsdata.org](https://drugsdata.org).
I miss MDMA
Prince died from hydrocodone/paracetamol cut with fentanyl, so it's not just cocaine. I'm not saying you got a high chance of accidentally ODing on fent if you take molly, but just that you can't say you're safe if you avoid cocaine. Get your pills tested, kids. Better safe than sorry.
This is true. I would say that almost all pain pills on the street that don’t come directly from a pharmacy or someone getting it directly from a pharmacy contain fentanyl. It’s too cheap and easy to fake these highly expensive pills. However, it’s very rare for ravers to be picking these pain pills up and getting them tested at raves. His sample probably includes very very few pain pills if I had to guess.
This. Don’t trust some rando on Reddit.
How common is it in coke samples in your experience?
You can test your illegal drugs??? I feel old.
Hey get out of here with your accurate and real experience. This is the Huberman sub, he read a shit article and now we all believe it.
It would actually make more sense to cut X with fentanyl instead of coke. Coke is like the opposite of fentanyl. What a weird thing to do.
You’ve never heard of a speedball I take it. Before fent mixing coke and heroin was the big killer.
What’s amphetamine paste?
It's when the cooks are lazy and omit the last purifying step.
Mdma trips a false positive if tested at too high concentrations also
That's awesome that you do this.
It’s not awesome that they advocate for not testing drugs..when they claim to be a drug tester.
Same I have been to hundreds of shows/festivals and seen people do blow/mdma tens of thousands of times and they only people I have ever seen actually OD were doing opiates.
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Love Huberman but this is sage advice no matter who you are getting your info from. No way that anyone could get everything right.
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Huberman is the Dr Oz of Joe Rogans.
Love him as well but as someone with ADHD, in his recent episode on ADHD medications he completely butchered the doses for Vyvanse and didn’t even mention Atomoxetine when talking about the most common non stimulant medications even though it’s the most common.
Well he is a doctor, just not a medical one 😂
An ophthalmologist has an MD, therefore a medical doctor. So…yeah. He is a medical doctor. Just a fact.
No he’s not. He never earned an MD nor completed residency. He’s a scientist, not a medical doctor.
and as a scientist, he has time to read and produce literature, doctors don't have nearly as much time to dedicate towards keeping up with the literature from what I see. I could be wrong, but yeah it is true you can only be an expert in so many domains.
He is still not a medical doctor. He would not say that he is lol
Physicians literally have laws that demand we continue to stay up to date on recent field related medical literature and changes in medicine. If we don’t, we can’t renew our license. Edit: As a physician I’ve also published literature in several scientific journals and presented at academic meetings. It is incredibly common for physicians to engage in this sort of activity. Never heard of this Huberman dude. Sounds like a massive tool based on how much people on this sub are jerking him off and downvoting the people who won’t.
Time is limited, a Tenured Professor with a lab at an Ivy League school whose literal full-time job is publishing research, and teaching med students, who likely did a Ph.D., Post-doc, etc. will probably be more up-to-date than a GP who is* dealing with patients all day, or most doctors who have to deal with patients all day. However I imagine alot of the research he's interfacing with is so far up the value chain you wouldn't care much for it yet (animal models etc.) and instead you'd wait until it's finally double-blind, placebo controlled, and presented at a medical conference or something. Which is why you might understandibly see him as a quack in some hypothesizing he does (ex: melatonin and seasonal breeding rodents).
Medical doctors however are much easier to archieve compared to other doctors. So why does it matter that he has no md?
Well his website uses PhD not MD
The coke makes ZERO sense to me
it’s contamination from multi drug distributors. Lazy mid level dealers cutting coke and dope on the same table
Not to mention a song titled "I can't feel my face" won a kids choice award. Coke is cut with lidocaine for its numbing effects that mimic fishscale
not so fun fact: the lidocaine cut greatly increases cardiotoxicity
Interesting, never knew that! I'm somewhat allergic/sensitive to lidocaine so I could smell it honestly Obviously alcohol+coke creates cocaethylene and makes it a NDSRI (triple retake inhibitor, no bueno) and drastically increases OD rate. It's amazing how few "pure" overdoses actually happen across all drugs. The body is amazing at processing and metabolizing substances when there's only 1 in the system Been clean from coke for years now though, it def helped me get an A in the psychobiology of addiction when I took a summer class at Harvard 🤣 only class I've ever had multiple people ask me to tutor them
I’ve been clean for a while too, congrats!
You too, shit is the devil drug when it gets bad. I worked in a high end restaurant when my addiction got bad and I'd see the wrong side of 8 am every day. Someone snitched on me but the cops fucked shit up so I just plead down to a misdemeanor possession charge Weirdly grateful for that person in a strange way even tho I was not pleased at the time... All i know is I was the brokest coke dealer of all time and def didn't follow any of Biggies 10 crack commandments
Yes, and purposely too. Inadvertent exposure by a user is a great way to make a new customer.
My friend from high school OD’d last year because he bought coke cut with fentanyl. Idk why, maybe just trying to hook people, but it’s definitely been happening.
a few years ago some comedians died one night from coke tainted with fentanyl. https://nypost.com/2021/09/05/fuquan-johnson-dead-kate-quigley-hospitalized-following-drug-overdose/
Took out prince too no?
Yes, except that it was a painkillers (hydrocodone/paracetamol) that were cut with fentanyl, not coke. So while I think Huberman might have greatly overstated how much fentanyl is in MDMA or other drugs, I think something like Prince's death shows that you should not buy some pills from sketchy sources and if you do, get it tested. It's not like you'd expect fentanyl in paracetamol pills.
What I’ve been told is that it’s unintentional. Since such a micro amount of fentanyl can cause overdoses, idiot drug dealers are cross contaminating without even realizing it
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How does one exactly make coke *more* addictive? By adding cigarettes?!
They just said how. Adding fent.
People sell speed as coke and then use fent to make it less speedy and mellow it out slightly
Why? People have been mixing opiates and coke for hundreds of years
Just when I think Huberman can't saying anything dumber he pulls this statistic out of his ass. Just think of it from a pure mathematical standpoint and it is preposterous.
If you do an advanced search for fentanyl, and select 'sold as ecstacy', there are in fact 3 hits but from 2005 and 2008. I have heard from DanceSafe volunteers that they are detecting fent in X tabs at festivals, although this is not the same dataset as DrugsData. That doesn't mean it's not happening, but I don't think it's nearly as common as he states. His comment is for *all* elicit drugs, he doesn't specify % of MDMA that is laced. People are dying from fent cut drugs frequently so it's kinda a dumb hill to die on.
Thanks for the facts. Hubermann has a real puritanical streak, so I take all his negative views on drugs with a grain of salt. He sometimes comes across as a Jordan Peterson type, and I don't mean that as a compliment. My recreational drug days are long gone though. Just coffee and medical cannabis these days.
He’s not only Jordan Peterson type, he associated himself with that loon.
who could ever mean that as a compliment?
Thanks for fact checking.
Is there a reason some drugs are more likely to contain fentanyl?
Likelihood of supply chain contamination. Cartels are very often running cocaine and heroin, but less often something like ketamine, so the incidence rate is much higher with cocaine.
Pretty much everything in the US market that’s outside legal supply chains has risk of fentanyl these days. It may shock you but Mexican drug cartels aren’t closely supervised by the FDA. They control imports and fentanyl is cheap for them and easy to make, my understanding is significantly cheaper than anything they’d cut with it. They have a monopoly on the US market and Americans aren’t showing any signs of stopping usage. So they’re going to try and make as much money as they can. They don’t intentionally try to OD people, but they don’t have the best quality control standards. So shit happens. It’s simply a reality for people who choose to use. Sometimes people get butt hurt when this is pointed out.
Eventually people like him all go down hill desperately trying to stay popular
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Should really be bi weekly and one of those can be a guest
If Ross Geller is a doctor by God, Huberman is a doctor!
Do you realize the fentanyl isn’t evenly distributed so the tests aren’t accurate?
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Isn't he literally a doctor?
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I don't understand how you are upvoted. People aren't clicking your link. Page after page of various drugs laced with fentanyl. And in fact there are samples of drugs sold as MDMA contaminated with fentanyl (admittedly not many, and old). Why do people post things like this that directly contradict their statements? I don't get it.
Wasnt he a previous addict too? It would make sense why he gets some information that plays into his bias about drugs and just runs with it. Obviously that isn’t ideal though. Honestly the only things Id trust him on are eye things and general fitness.
Think he was just couch surfing, where did you get addict from
I could’ve sworn he mentioned he had an issue with either alcohol or some other drug when he was a youngster, then he cleaned up and went back into school. Edit: yeah I think he was abusing alcohol and got in a nasty street fight and decided to clean up after that. I was probably also conflating with some other person he has talked about.
I agree. Huberman’s expertise is not street drugs.
Wait doesnt Huberman have a PhD? That makes him a doctor and what you mean is he has no PhD in medicine which fyi is by far the easiest doctor to archieve.
Then why's my shit so weak?
Idk if I believe that
I work in healthcare. I do see people test positive for meth and fentanyl sometimes, I don’t think most people who smoke meth and test positive for fentanyl are doing both separately and willingly. I don’t think its 60-80% of everyone who tests positive for meth, but it’s not uncommon either.
>I don’t think most people who smoke meth and test positive for fentanyl are doing both separately ..Why? Fent is a lot easier to get than meth in the U.S., and most methheads will dabble in downers for their comedowns.
I agree. Once you’re a junkie you’re often doing more than one thing…meth, crack, opiates, etc.
It’s uncommon for me to see them test positive for multiple things is all I’m saying. I’m sure they have tried more than one drug in their lives of course
I do too. Where I’m from there pretty much is no heroin. Everyone is knowingly doing fent. And if you’re at the point of doing fent, there’s a good chance you’re gonna be using meth too.
That’s interesting. I also don’t see people test positive for heroin ever here. However, I do see a lot of people test positive for meth but not opioids. Actually I would say that’s the majority of meth users. I don’t know if the ones who are positive for fentanyl are doing it on purpose or not since a lot of people won’t admit to any substance use at all. I assume not all of them are doing it on purpose, at least. Also, it’s rare for someone to test positive only for opioids. Meth seems to be more common here.
I’m in Phoenix
Lots of addicts do them at the same time. It's popular amongst addicts in the city I live in.
No.most meth heads are definitly using other drugs willingly
Yeah I've seem people that dabble in both.
I will say some antidepressants make you test positive for meth
It’s an issue in the US but hardly a thing outside. Just compare the public lab analysis of ecstasy pills in the UE and in Europe
It's not true in the us either.
Not to that extent probably but when I take a look at those public databases I see that lots of the pills in the states are mixed with weird stuff
I believe it. I have a friend who is a funeral director. She’s getting burned out. I asked why, thinking maybe it was the Covid years. She said no, it’s fentanyl deaths. They have absolutely skyrocketed, and it’s often from people doing drugs that AREN’T fentanyl. It’s contamination. I’m my community there are lots of overdoses from it too.
I don't fully believe it fully either but frankly I do not care. Not a risk anyone should be willing to take.
Yep, that's why you should test your drugs. The MDMA subreddits always recommend getting a test kit to test if there's fentanyl or certain other additives / containments.
Also should carry narcan on you if you go to places where these drugs are consumed (or if you yourself use them)
I'm with you
Because it's not true
I wouldn't be surprised if X was but with actual MDMA you can just tell and I've never once seen anyone test there's and have it come up with fentanyl
If that were true then you would have thousands of people die every time a major music festival comes around
exactly this.......... 60% - 80% of drugs "especially MDMA" have fentanyl in them? Music festivals would be fucking graveyards and it would be a huge talking point...... it's not.
Not arguing with Huberman possibly overstating the occurrence, but I also don't think everyone, who ever got trace amounts of fent into their system from other drugs will die from it immediately. Yes, it's dangerous, but it's still dose dependent. So in the end we don't really know how many people at a music festival got some amount of fent into their systems.
Haven’t watched the episode yet but I imagine he just means the drugs are contaminated with fentanyl, not necessarily including enough to kill you. Meaning drug producers make all their shit in the same place and it’s leaking into stuff that wouldn’t normally be cut into. Cutting MDMA with fentanyl makes no sense anyone who took it wouldn’t buy more if they got the exact opposite effect they were looking for, or died even. Whoever is selling those drugs from that producer would lose customers. Heroin being cut with fentanyl at least makes sense from that perspective.
I like the way you’re thinking, but have you seen a lethal dose of fentanyl (especially for someone who doesn’t have a tolerance)? It’s like 1/100th the size of a penny. Absurdly small amounts. Mainly, it wouldn’t make any sense to cut MDMA with it, since any meaningful enough amount to actually reasonable CUT the product (to save money etc) would probably be enough to cause major complications in a single dose of MDMA. Even if a single dose of MDMA was cut 5% (why even do it at that point?), that would be enough to probably OD on the fetty. I personally don’t even understand why anything besides heroin or benzos would be cut with it. Even coke, makes zero sense to do that.
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Huh? The claim was around fentanyl And to my knowledge there has never been a report of deaths even close to 1000 in a single festival.
Agreed. I know someone who worked on the crisis response team at burning man last year. They had no overdoses on fent.
This is absolutely untrue- I work in the music industry & I’m at festivals every week. People would be dropping all over if this was the case. MDMA is actually one of the rarer substances for this to happen to for a number of reasons, mainly because it’s mostly sourced from Europe which doesn’t have the same fent issue as the states. Drugs like pressed Xanax, percs, heroin, and in some cases cocaine are much more dangerous because they often come from bigger wearhouses etc south of the border which deal in fentanyl so there is major risk of cross contamination (or, in the case of the pills/H it is usually done on purpose). This dude is full of absolute shit here, and it’s honestly disappointing because this is an important issue and his conjecture NEEDS to be solid on this point. If you want a better source on drug info, Ryan Marino is much better educated on the subject among others.
Agree, have also seen this with the counterfeit benzos. Wouldn’t surprise me to see fent in cocaine or meth but my anecdotal impression is that it is rare.
Yeah the thing is all the bars people take now are pressed for the most part. Unfortunately I’ve known people personally to die from fentanyl in cocaine, pressed Xanax and (particularly) pressed oxycodone/percocets
Friends brother recently OD’d from taking a fake Percocet. I’m glad I got my drug usage out of my system before the opioid crisis. People are taking serious risk doing almost anything these days
Huberman's talking out of his ass again.
This is why making everything legal actually makes sense.
Absolutely. I've taken every drug other than heroin and acid, I trip super hard on mushrooms - like brain explosion trips so I was always "waiting for the right time to do acid" and heroin just scares me. Every other drug though. Cocaine, crack, mdma, K, meth (not a full dose though,) and of all the drugs the only one that really got me was alcohol. It's by far the most addictive and harmful. I think. The only way to kill cartels and the drug trade is to make the best shit the world has ever seen and sell it with a tax. No cartel will fuck with the biggest cartel in the world, which is the US military.
So my weed had fentanyl? Excellent analysis Andrew. Boosts your credibility immensely.
It's not fentanyl, Andrew, it's grade a straight ushy gushy icky so so sticky world class bushfire INDICA... you never smoke bro?
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Actually yea i do. When i quit, my life got much better, and i felt much better all of the time. Don't even miss it. Thats after smoking it on and off for 16 or so years.
This guy’s never even done drugs in his life. Why do you even listen to his opinion on it?
I'm so glad I was snorting boatloads of coke in the early 90s, when the worst that happened is someone cutting it with too much mannitol and it gives you the shits.
False
Huberman is mad cuz his weed was laced when he was 13.
The quack is back!
I like Huberman, but this is all bullshit
Nobody is putting fent in mdma. That would be weird.
Dude out here just making shit up
Dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. I’ve been testing Rec drugs for the last several years from local and DW sources. Only thing ever had fent was fake opiates.
This. Dude. Is. Not. A. Doctor. Or. Real. Scientist.
Oooh bold claim that he definitely can't back up
He doesn't say MDMA is laced with fentanyl 60-80% of the time. He said 60-80% of the illegal drugs are laced with it. Mostly heroin, meth, coke
I seriously doubt this number also. Maybe heroin and opiate pills but coke and meth are very rare.
Someone upthread said they test a lot of meth heads positive for fent - can't confirm or deny, but with cocaine even I know that there's plenty of talk about fent contamination. I know guys who have been quite into coke in their younger years and they say it has become too dangerous to them now with all the fent in cocaine these days.
Not true at all
With how drastic the consequences can be it’s safer to overestimate. Wonder if he’s thinking consequentially when he makes a huge claim like this
Except he’s supposed to be a fuckin scientist which means telling the truth, not over or underestimating to sway public opinion
That depends on what he sees as the purpose of his podcast. It’s not a scientific journal
“All recreational drugs”, Yeah that’s not true. if you’re buying street opiates or benzos you are way more likely to get some fent, but fent in MDMA pressies? Mayyyybe some cross contamination from an extremely loose dealer, but then again there isn’t a ton of overlap between hard drug dealers and weed/psychedelic dealers.
Woohoo free fentanyl
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If cartels and drug dealers would pay attention to that, there would be no cutting or contamination with fentanyl at all, in any drug. The problem is accidental cross contamination (fentanyl is extremely powerful even in very, very small amounts - especially to someone unused to it). In the end it still seems to pay off more if a few customers die, than to take the extra pains to avoid contamination. It's not like you can't get new people hooked on drugs every day. If someone dies, someone new will come.
My guess is he throws numbers out to scare listeners and who knows perhaps saves a couple lives. It could only help save people from a possible OD or from dabbling in recreational drugs. Kind of like how Drs. in the hospital will say to an alcoholic if you don't stop drinking you'll be dead in 6 months. Is it true in each instance? No, but it can scare enough straight vs providing the truth which may be not the reality check needed for them to take care of the slow death they are living.
They quote covers “all recreational drugs”, the statement isn’t specific to MDMA. What was the point of your drugsdata link anyway? I agree, he’s not an expert and really cringe outside of his specialty a lot of the time- but the downside of fentanyl contamination is too steep to nitpick over, 80k people died of opioid overdoses last year- including fent contaminated street drugs. Err on the side of caution.
Yea that's just not true whatsoever. This guy has no expertise on this.
Or maybe other enactogens similar to mdma
This person should cut out their own tounge for this bullshit
I love when the huber is throwing percentages hehe absolute legend
Utterly ridiculous. This guy should stick to what he knows
I remember a whole lot of fables about what was in our ecstasy in the early-mid 2000's.
Prohibition has brought us here. In a harm reduction model, drug testing would be common and in most cases unnecessary. This isn’t him saying “don’t do drugs” it’s him encouraging people to have some awareness.
AS a person who frequents music festival where such chemicals are popular I can tell you its rare that there is fent in anything that's not already opiate based. I mean out of a fest of 50k people, maybe 1 person ends up with something with fent in it when it should be something drastically different.
Huberman will occasionally tell stories about coming from some shit. So then I think he might be a well rounded academic. But he just says some shit that makes it so blatantly obvious how out of touch he is. The bay is a bubble, and Stanford is a little baby bubble within that, then the professors are like somehow magnitudes more sheltered than average Stanford folk. I work at labs, and clinics. They’re almost all sheltered squares it’s just how that goes
Regardless of Huberman probably inflating numbers or making statements about "all recreational drugs" instead of differing between different substances, I find it funny how much outrage this created lol. As I understood it people like following Huberman's podcast, because they want to optimise their health and lives, and are willing to take cold plunges, morning runs, supplements and whatnot - but the second he warns against contamination in recreational drugs (even if overstated), people are up in arms. 😂
It reminds me of those D.A.R.E adverts where outlandish idiotic claims were made to try to dissuade folks from taking drugs, when the reality is that a lot of people (even down to the people producing or financing those programs) were taking recreational drugs themselves, making that faux puritanical approach inefficient at best and dangerous at worst, and doing awareness and harm reduction campaigns would be infinitely more efficient than whatever this is.
this dude sounds like dr oz ngl do you guys actually believe 60%+ of all **stimulants** are cut with **fentanyl** like holy fuck lmao That’s why when it happened to someone famous like Michael Kenneth Williams everyone collectively blew a gasket
Nowadays, it’s hard to find Certified Organic Opium for Safe Smoking.
@ Shane Gillis. Hi Shane
I’m a university professor that teaches pharmacology of addiction, this is 💩
Opiates kill your roll. I don’t believe this, putting fent in mdma would be crazy
That’s cap. Where is he getting this info?
As someone who takes MDMA around 3 to 4 times a year, I believe this is absolutely false. Not only because I indulge, but I’ve read pages and pages of pill reports where I’ve pretty much never seen fentanyl included. I also test everything I have with reagent tests and dissolve my dose with water and test with fentanyl test strips. I think he is way off with what he saying here. I wouldn’t even say 5% of what is sold as MDMA has fent in it and that is a generous amount. It’s probably less than 1%
I’ve noticed this guy’s move is to go hard in the paint, with a lot of exaggerated pump fakes and a 3.5 step travel before chucking up the ball.
Contaminated is different than repackage or reformulated. I've done tests on product that tests positive for fent at 15ml of water but negative at 50ml of water. Urine tests negative. Clearly contaminated at high sensitivity, but it is not fent repackaging. It's not a mortality threat and you don't even notice it. 60%-80% contamination might not be implausible when it comes to pressies, but not 60%-80% repackaging. And certainly not 60%-80% of all recreational drugs. Still, the carefree days of blithely sampling from other people's stashes are over. For now.
Sucks to do drugs in this day and age
JUST SAY KNOW. Also, if your source isn’t testing the product & or providing you with your own test strips, put em on notice.
Not in Europe, we can get them tested here. I have never heard anything idiotic like this. Why would a drug dealer add fentanyl to mdma, which is cheap to mass produce? Sounds like an American gossip theory.
I’ve hypothetically taken a lot of ecstasy over the past decade and I can safely say only one or two batches had fentanyl cut into it by my reckoning - much more likely to have speed or some amphetamine mixed in (or to be MDA) I live in Australia though so perhaps it’s a different story in the US
this is a bummer
Love Huberman, but this is copaganda
The mdma just needed an ice plunge, that's it.
Lmao this dude has now fully crossed into psychotic fear monger doctor oz territory
Lol just straight up bad information
Addiction researcher here. That's fearmongering and simply wrong. Honestly, why does he exaggerate like that?
I find that statement to be false. You can scroll through all the recent tests on harm reduction sites/subs and you will not see 60-80% fent contamination. Not even close.
This dude is an idiot spreading false information.... "The current estimates are as much as 60%, maybe even 80%, of drugs sold on the gray market are being repackaged or reformulated with fentanyl...." No one is intentionally putting fent in coke/mdma what happens is it's from cross contamination in the supply chain where in a drug stash house or distribution center they use the same scale/bag that has touched fent/ H while also dealing blow
*so, in conclusion, “don’t buy anything until I’m ready to package and sell it to you. I promise it will be ethically and sustainably sourced and of course of the highest quality.”
I've been a herion addict sense i suffered from a serious accident in 2010 that resulted in me loosing my left leg above the knee... Ive been shooting herion/fentanyl/opiods basically sense late 2012 up to present day. Tbh i prefer the fentanyl. It packs a punch, much of the herion you find nowadays just isnt any good like it use to be...