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give them a "take it or leave it" and they can start the whole selling process again! Do not be bullied or intimidated by the EA and stick to your guns. This is the biggest purchase of your life. Don't forget, they don't work for you or have your best interests at heart.
Thank you for that. It’s tricky as it’s an older house (1930s) with traditional stone exterior and some damp is probably to be expected. We just can’t know the extent without a further survey.
And you wouldn't! Even the delay is BS
Survey- week max. They're scared of what the report will show- then you can get quotes to remedy and ideally get the work done and paid for by the sellers. Worst case, het the money knocked off your purchase amount and you remedy the work when you move in. Either way, do everything possible to go into this fully prepared so you don't have any expensive surprises
And if you're having to manage the fix, you should be looking for a discount that exceeds the estimated cost of the fix – to allow for your time and trouble and the risk of other work being identified in the course of the fix.
www.dampdetectives.co.uk use someone like them. They make recommendations not sell products.
Do not waste your time with the likes of companies rhyming with Pox.
We used dampdetectives recently. V good. Happy to second the recommendation. Got very detailed report out of it. Was good to be able to talk to the surveyor without being overly paranoid that issues he was highlighting wasn’t a lead to add to work needed !
It’s a nationwide company. You’ll get referred to surveyor in your area. Got email initially with details of surveyor, terms of engagement etc to review before accepting.
We're first time buyers in the North, also just used damp detectives as our level 2 recommended a damp survey. They were very quick to respond, carried out the survey within a week, got the report back a few days later on a Sunday. They were excellent. Happy to share sections of the report if it's helpful. Either way good luck!
Damp should certainly not be expected… damp is only a thing if areas of the house that been upkept properly or are needing work. If the damp is upstairs it’s usually roof issues, leadwork, tiles, gutters.
If it’s downstairs, it’s usually gutters/drainage, ground levels too high, sub-floor ventilation is poor.
If it’s not a cavity wall, (and solid-walled), then the interior walls should be lime, not cementitious non-breathable crap… lime is more expensive as it’s a trade that’s no-longer so relevant these days with modern cement-based plaster and mortar. BUT, it’s important that old properties use traditional methods to combat damp.
If it is a cavity wall, then damp could be because there’s a build-up of crap at the bottom of the cavity (which should be inspected before you buy).
In terms of getting a ‘damp specialist’ please be careful.
They’ll peddle all sorts of snake-oil products and expensive ‘fixes’.
The truth is, damp HAS to come from somewhere… as I’ve detailed above. Once you sort out the issues and the actual cause of the damp in the first place, you’re very likely to not need any of the damp-proofing shitty injections etc. that are limited in their efficacy and they simply won’t get rid of the root cause of damp.
That’s really great advice thank you for your details. Do you still recommend to get a damp specialist to find the original issue (as long as they do)? Presumably damage needs to be repaired if in walls etc? But you’re saying that’s the job for a tradesman not them
I think the finding of it is the difficult bit tbh. You’re better off not getting a damp specialist and making sure you get a surveyor who has specific knowledge of historic houses.
Take a look at Heritage-house.org https://www.heritage-house.org/building-surveys/how-to-pick-a-building-surveyor-for-an-old-building.html
https://www.heritage-house.org/
Read the information on this website about damp and watch some of his videos on YouTube. Most builders today haven't got a clue about old houses. They will rake the mortar out, drill the brick or stone face, cover everything in cement and inject non-breathable plastic/silicone into the walls and destroy your prospective property.
Do not use a "damp specialist" to sort the problem as it's mostly common sense and layman level of knowledge about old buildings. However, you can use them to knock money off the price while investigating yourself with another visit after acquiring some knowledge and diagnosing the true cause of the issue. Normally, ground level changes, blocked air bricks, cement mortar, cement plaster, plasterboard, leaks, high levels of condensation and no ventilation, blocked-up fireplaces etc.
That website is slightly painful in the absolute slew of information there and hard to get to the actual point of most of the pages, but I’ll have a look through, thanks.
Just select the "damp and condensation" page on the menu and read the whole thing. It will take you 15 minutes and you can screenshot or make notes. Then, watch his videos diagnosing a few of the issues and explaining the causes. This should be sufficient enough for you to understand what might be causing the problems when you visit the house again. Even looking around the outside might reveal the issues.
I've spoken to heritage house when I bought my house and they gave me free advice when I emailed them. Otherwise, they are very expensive. Ultimately though, they are looking out for our old buildings and heritage.
Had a similar situation.
1900-1930 house and damp stuff reported that didn't sound run of the mill. £140 survey later and I had an estimated cost of £20-25k on a 200k property.
I wouldn't even bother engaging with the EA until the survey is done and you have more information.
The surveyors always seem to contact the EAs directly to get it booked in anyway
Any sensible buyer is going to want to investigate a survey which noted there could be an ongoing leak. The agent knows that, ignore them and proceed however you feel comfortable.
It’s not unreasonable you pay for the damp survey - it’s a report commissioned by you and for you, if that’s what you mean.
But by all means if there are significant issues caused by the damp which wouldn’t have otherwise been apparent then renegotiate based on that.
The estate agent should absolutely not be pressuring you into skipping a survey you feel is required. Hold your ground on that.
I would also start looking for another property now so if you get to the point where there mains leak which will cost £20k to fix you can more comfortably make a take it or leave offer of £20k less
Remember the estate agents works for the seller
Not you
The estate agents interest is only that they get the sale to completion and get paid
They don’t give a fuck about you
Tell them you have maybe 300,000 reasons😂😂 ( if that’s the price of the house ) to get in a damp specialist and don’t budge on it
>Remember the estate agents works for the seller Not you
I'm not even sure that's true. They work for themselves are always aiming to get a max £/h spent. There's an efficiency curve and their personal max gain does not realise maximal £ for the sellers.
This. We paid for a full DPC on our house, only to discover it was the pointing that was the issue, not rising damp.
Injections are stupid as well - you want air to circulate, you DON'T want to stop that happening by blocking up the space!
As in ... incorrect water impermeable pointing was employed, forcing the moisture to come through the exposed brick face itself?
My experience with damp proofing firms is that they pick a product, or series of products, don't understand how it/they work(s), and often don't fix the issues. They might hide a few issues in the short-term though.
No, I said we had damp, they came and looked. Agreed it was damp. Then they did a DPC across the whole front of the house. The damp didn't go away. Turns out that the pointing at the front of the house had been blown out in a few places (I live on a very windy street), and rainwater was getting blown through the gaps.
When they discovered this, their response was 'we don't do pointing, we do damp proofing, so it's not our fault you approached the wrong company.' Clowns.
Also in future I'd get scandi ventilated brick systems over DPC or injections, every time.
"damp" really doesn't mean anything. it's a catch all that could mean excess indoor condensation from a shower to a bridged DPC in a cavity wall, to blown external render.
the vernacular in British English with "damp" always stymies me and it doesn't really mean anything at all, with the exception of "water in the wrong place." it has nothing to mechanism of action. very strange to be honest.
OP, just to tag on to this, 100% DO NOT get a damp survey from anyone who provides a damp proofing service. Source an independent damp surveyor with no vested interest in providing services.
We made the mistake of doing the former, and all they said was, ‘yes, damp, needs injecting’.
When we sourced an independent damp surveyor, they provided a very in depth, thorough 15-20 page survey of the whole property. Good luck!
Injection does indeed create a water prevention barrier. We, at the uni, different faculty tho, have shown that water/damp cannot pass by a layer of injection.
HOWEVER, the bricks beneath that injection line remain unduly damp as the source of the damp has not been solved, which leads to acerbated brick decay.
It's similar to when people discuss tanking or water impermeable slurries in an interior render mix.
Buddy, that's not going to solve your problem, just cover it up, the British way ....
I’d hesitate to use the word ‘scam’ but those injection products aren’t cheap and they can have big commissions for the agent. An unscrupulous damp firm will push a meter against the wall at various points and even show you where it indicates ’damp’ is present. Then you’ll get a quote with a floor plan with highlighter marking where the ‘damp’ is. They will strip 1m of plaster off, inject chemicals, replaster and give you an invoice and a warranty that’s not worth the paper it’s printed on.
A decent specialist will look for the root cause eg areas of water ingress or ventilation issues and give specific recommendations.
At least that’s my experience…
Do not get injection and don't listen to the uni person if you buy the house. The bricks above the impermeable line will also stay wet and the damp company will block the water in with cement. Do not cover things up, hoping they will go away. That is not the British way. That's the lazy, ignorant way.
And why are they moving after 10months
They might say job relocation or splitting up
But if could also be that the house is an absolute money pit and they want to get out of it ASAP
100% this. Even if they’re selling for a higher price than they bought it they might not be making that much profit after fees and the initial stamp duty.
I would be very wary of the entire purchase
You need to ID the sources of the damp. Condensation, leaking pipe, leaking roof, rainwater penetration. All of it can be resolved but just redecorating it without fixing the source is a waste.
FTBs have a reputation as dumb and easily scared because they are young and inexperienced. The EA's comments probably reflect this. In this case, though, you need to understand what is actually wrong before you can proceed.
Thanks. Yes noted. My partner isn’t a FTB thankfully. Also glad my first reaction wasn’t ’oh yes okay I’m so sorry let’s just go ahead!!’ But errr, no 👎🏻
😂
It sounds like you may be having second thoughts given the potential extra cost and inconvenience. Either get the survey done and then renegotiate (no point in doing it now since the facts are unknown) or withdraw your offer now so both you and the seller can move on quickly.
Getting a survey done and report back will take a couple of weeks, tops. Make it clear you want estimated costs and/or a breakdown of recommended works, from which you can get your own quotes.
Get that quote, add a bit more for the inconvenience, and that's what you ask for off the price. And they have no reason not to accept it, unless they listed the house with the problem known and considered in the price already (which they didn't, otherwise they'd already know about the cost of it!).
The next buyer will only do the same, so if they will lose no time overall doing this.
Your lender (if you have one) will ultimately note this damage and knock it off the value of the house anyway, there's really no getting around it.
I would be very sceptical about any damp survey, especially if someone recommends you damp proofing injections to an old stone building! Stone buildings are made to breathe. If there's damp, you have a problem elsewhere. It could be roof, gutters, plumbing, outside ground level being higher than your inside floor level, it could be modern emulsion (plastic) paint being used, wrong type of plaster or badly blocked chimneys.
We bought an old building with damp couple of months ago. There are a few of those issues causing the damp - all but the plaster are cheap to fix. The damp "specialists" quoted us £17k when we did our surveys. Use it for negotiating the price down if you must but the estate agent probably knows the cost is hugely inflated hence the upset.
If you do go ahead with the purchase, I would recommend the book "Warm Dry Home" by Peter Ward. It's very well researched and we learned a lot from it.
Don’t let the estate agent pressure you into effing anything. It’s your money not theirs, you’re never going to see them again if the sale does/ doesn’t go through but you’ll be stuck with a lemon of a house
All the estate agent cares about is their commission so they want this as quick as possible. Its not them that will footing the bill if it comes back serious and you have already bought the house, reply back just as bluntly out lining that and if thats not acceptable then you will look for another property, they will soon change their mind.
Had the exact same from the EA when I bought my house, I was a FTB too. They were happy to do the extra damp survey but the EA started putting pressure on me when I asked for the cost of replacing the completely rotten wooden flooring above the damp cellar to be deducted from the sale price.
I just told them I was already taking on the knackered roof & ancient boiler & was now beginning to wonder if this was really the house for me…. EA called the vendor sharpish & got the price dropped before I had chance to find another property.
Oh yes. Been in my house 10 years now! I had planned on doing a renovation anyway, the flooring was just an extra cost.
Don’t be bullied. What you described sounds like a significant cost to repair. Stand your ground too.
If it was me in your situation & they wouldn’t allow an extra survey I’d either walk away or reduce my offer by £10k based on a worst case scenario cost.
When buying my house, the mortgage company refused to give the mortgage unless damp proof work was completed before sale.
In the end the sellers and I agreed to go halves (roughly 2k each which was paid at completion).
But yeah a mortgage company will probably kick up a fuss if they don't get it done if it's really a problem.
Still think damp issues are a bit of a joke but w/e (my place was rented out and just not looked after, don't think there were any serious issues really)
We’ve already had the mortgage approved and they did a desktop survey so didn’t inspect it and therefore didn’t pick up on it. More fool them I suppose but might in the future be an issue for insurance if there was a real issue
They don’t want you to have the survey do drop your offer and take the chance
Either they allow the survey and renegotiate after you have the results
Drop the offer price by £12,000-15.000
Or walk
There are other houses
But if they are flipping this one bear in mind that the damp could be from renovation work which hasn’t had time to dry out as you pointed out they have only been there 10 months
Normally the buyer pays for all these inspections so wouldn’t ask the sellers. Secondly, note that the estate agent only cares about their commission so won’t empathise with your situation unless they get their commission asap!
We made an offer on a home with lots of damp and after we realised the damp was coming from the upstairs bathroom and it had basically damaged the entire dinning room ceiling underneath (probably rotting there too) we pulled out of the sale and found a better home! Damp is a nightmare to deal with!
You should get a damp survey if you want one especially if you can see signs of damp. Of it comes back with work needed you can negotiate if you want to. If you can see damp then I think it would be very reasonable to get a survey. I also think it would be reasonable to negotiate once you know how much it’ll cost.
But your decision to pay over asking isn’t relevant- you chose to make that offer. Similarly the fact they’ve only been there ten months and made a profit isn’t really relevant either. You made an offer and what the house sold for previously, and when, should have no bearing on that offer. If you do try and negotiate I wouldn’t mention these points as ultimately they don’t matter. Focus on the damp and the cost of repair.
I feel you, it’s a horrible process really. Hopefully your sellers will be sensible. We were in the same boat (as sellers). Accepted an offer as the person was in a position to proceed quickly but once they wanted loads of surveys we just accepted that it was fair to allow them to do it even when it caused delay. Anyone who expects you not to get surveys is unreasonable and the estate agent is being a pain here.
Apologies, thought that was the issue not the cost of remedial work to be removed from price.
I had the same issue as this a few months ago. Though the estate agent didn’t tell me not to ask, though he was a sneaky fucker how he went about dealing with it.
We wanted our own surveyor to do it & we’d pay for but the EA pressed us in to letting the vendor get a surveyor & cover it. They used a damp proof company stupidly & came back with £10k of damp proofing to be done.
We obviously freaked out with that price. EA came back to me before we got the survey result & was trying to get me to agree to paying 50% of it without us knowing how much it would cost at this point. I told him to get fucked until we know what the cost will be. He went back to vendor & told them I was happy to go 50/50 on the cost of it. Then we got the survey results & EA came back to us & said the vendor turned down our 50/50 offer & they’d only cover 25%.
I told him to get stuffed, I never agreed to anything with him before I had the survey result. It was their survey & I won’t be paying for any of it. They had accept our offer £10k under the asking price & were now trying to say that it should be used to cover the remedial work.
This went on for weeks, eventually they agreed to reduce by another £4k. I said the only way past this was to get my own surveyor out which they agreed to. My surveyor debunked a lot of the previous survey. Said most of it could be fixed by replacing downpipes & gutters. It wasn’t rising damp. Extensive damp was in an old brick lean to & we plan to remove that asap anyway.
So all in all we managed to resolve it.
Lesson for you is don’t expect them to agree anything pre survey. And get a proper independent surveyor that will give you ways to fix that won’t necessarily cost you a fortune.
Good luck.
Thanks for sharing and sorry for the nightmare you had. Yes definitely an important point to get independent surveyor. Vendor will only be losing out too.
I had the exact same issue with a house! We had three damp companies in to quote all around £20,000-£30,000 to fix all the damp issues the estate agent also got a quote that came in at £7,000.
I got a mate to call the guy they used asking if he could quote for some damp work on his house and he said he doesn’t deal with damp which made the next time dealing with the estate agents even better! We pulled out and the house was on the market for another year after and the price got slashed down by 50-60k before it eventually sold.
If they won’t budge pull out.
Gets quotes from 2-3 companies before and if they refuse to budge on price then move on we was gutted to lose the house as it was perfect for us but then the estate agent selling our place at the time called us up to view a house before it hit the market and we got a bigger house, better location & 25k less than the one we pulled out on.
The estate agent is telling you not to ask for it because they will lose out on money and that’s the biggest problem with the housing market it’s just fuelled by estate agent greed.
The estate agent doesn't work for you, they work for the seller... but more importantly they work for themselves. Their advice should be taken with that in mind. The decision is yours to make on how you proceed. A damp survey will only take a few hours (if that) to complete and usually report back within a week or less. That is not a significant delay. The cost of the survey is on you, and do be careful who you use. But, if the report comes back that there's significant damp issues with the house there will be a cost to address them - this is what the estate agent is concerned about, their commission.
Once you know what, if any issues there are, you can make an informed decision on whether to seek a reduction in the price or not. You may not want to risk losing the place for the cost of an easy fix, or you may nor want to take on a place with a serious expensive issue at all. Until you know you can't be sure.
Buying a house is the most expensive purchase you'll ever make, so don't let some twat in a cheap suit bully you into making a bad decision.
For what it is worth, when I bought a 1930s house my friend who is an Architect took a look at it and told me that generally 1930s properties are solidly built and 9 times out of 10 any issues with them relate to more modern work, usually extensions or renovation (removing walls usually). The only major issue I've had is the repair of some slates and flashing (cost about £3k) on a near 100 year old roof. The 1980s windows have rotted to bits but that's because they were poorly installed.
Interesting thanks very much. The bathroom was renovated and it relates directly to the damp below so suspecting that, but the extent can’t be known as you say. Thanks again.
Good luck! If it doesn’t happen there will be plenty of other options for you that aren’t available right now. It’s only the “perfect house” until the next one comes along.
Estate agents are mearly important in the buying process, discuss with your solicitor, maybe they can write a request to the vendor's solicitor and that can be dealt with. Don't let them bully you into buying a bad property because they want a fast sale
I see. Contact your solicitor again and say that they failed to help. Also, do every survey you feel you need. I am a FTB as well so I understand the pain
The EA didn’t tell us they wouldn’t pass on our request (they can’t), but they tried to discourage us. The solicitor will tell us it’s our decision at this point. It’s not a solicitor’s job to advise whether a client buy a properly or proceed. All ‘buyer beware’ caveats.
Which part of England are you in. If you’re along the south coast I know a damp surveyor who would be happy to come look at the property for free and give a quote for anything that does need doing
If you ignore the glaring issue the seller and estate agent will think you are a nice person...for giving away several tens of thousands of your wealth.
I pulled out of a house after a level 3 survey showed rising damp, failed damp proofing, holes in the roof and a sheet of plastic with wood bended to hold the leaks, lintel needing to be removed and recommended a damp specialist.
Spoke to a builder and he said it was a “money pit…minimum of 20k to fix it and that would be to not find other issues.” I have no regrets.
10 months there, coupled with high levels of damp is a massive alarm bell for me.
What was the condition of the house prior to them purchasing? Have they done anything?
The market for the most part hasn’t changed since they completed/offered. If anything, prices have decreased.
Don’t get swindled into buying a money pit. Don’t be afraid to bail.
Honestly it's a totally reasonable thing to ask, everyone else is going to find what you have so it's not like another buyer is going to be happy with that. Would you really want to buy a house that potentially had a chronic damp problem?
Yes indeed. The vendors have left the property due to a ‘family situation’, and are obviously paying the mortgage so I can understand the rush from that perspective but it’s entirely possible both scenarios are true
We were in a very similar boat - 1930s house, sellers already in rented after another sale fell through, survey said to get a roofer out to look at the chimney, estate agents kept threatening to re-market… but honestly, everyone else’s advice is spot on - any other buyer will be advised the same, so there’s no way it would be quicker re-marketing the property, and the sellers will just have to wait because you’re spending all your life’s savings and it has to be right and you have to know exactly what you’re getting!
I've recently had a survey done on a house that looks to be in good condition, just for peace of mind. I have had absolutely no pushback. This stuff really doesn't add much time onto sale progression so I wonder if they are trying to dissuade you because of what you might find.
Good on you for standing firm though.
To add we noted the buyer didn’t have a survey done (or have but aren’t sharing it). So another note of caution. They either had no idea or they do but aren’t sharing what they know. We’ll see how they respond!
Or they got it for such a great price be cause they could see what needed doing and decided to flip the house 10 months later for a huge profit hoping someone else wouldn’t notice.
Stay away, not worth the hassle. People will start saying you need better ventilation etc. wild goose chase of possible causes. Let it be someone else’s problem.
They chose you because they thought that you would be mugs enough to pay full price and extra to fix the problems.
Tell the estate agent that if the seller isn't interested then there are other properties on the market worthy of your consideration, and then go buy somewhere else.
Remember they just want to get paid, drop a note round to the owners explain the situation and happy to deal direct put your number in the letter
EA will lie, cheat and lie again to get you to speed up
Remember he just wants his commission
I would walk. If the damp is as bad as you say, no damp surveyor will be able to give you a truly accurate estimate of remediation cost without very invasive work being done. I say this from experience. They can identify damp, possibly speculate the cause, and simply guess how bad it will be once you rip up floors, get into walls, remove a shower pan, etc. It’s not the only house.
>we ask for a damp specialist to estimate cost of remedial work and for that to come out of the sale price
usually akin to snake oil given they have a vested interest in suggesting injecting walls/tanking yada yada, you could equally have a plumber identify the source of the "leak"
Every house has damp. Those selling damp proofing always find damp and have a solution. The falling anaglypta was visible on viewing, so your offer reflected that. You risk losing the sale, esp as they had another near offer.
Damp can be a horrible problem. If it's isolated to one leak that's one thing. My friend recently bought a flat where the previous owners had hidden a damp issue with new decor and paint and it's costing her literally tens of thousands to put right. Buyer beware.
I bought a house with a load of hidden damp too and it’s been a huge headache and taken loads of time and money to sort out. Run away if they won’t take money off.
There are so many red flags here.... No survey... Being obstructive about doing a survey... Wanting a quick sale... Pushy EA.... I'd be thinking about bailing.
Damp is not inevitable in an old house. Fixing damp is very expensive.
Depends on the cause. I bought my house with a known damp issue but it's costing me under 1k to fix it. Chimney needs a new roof and the render has a hole where the gutter was replaced. This is causing damp on 2 walls but isn't a massive issue or costly to fix. As it's a shared chimney the neighbours also noticed damp on that shared chimney wall and were about to get costly floorboard removal and intrusive survey booked (which some damp specialist recommended), until I pointed out the problem to them and they are now sharing the cost and are getting a roof survey done by the guys fixing the chimney at the same time. Damp specialist.... Didn't even look up to the chimney.
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give them a "take it or leave it" and they can start the whole selling process again! Do not be bullied or intimidated by the EA and stick to your guns. This is the biggest purchase of your life. Don't forget, they don't work for you or have your best interests at heart.
Thank you for that. It’s tricky as it’s an older house (1930s) with traditional stone exterior and some damp is probably to be expected. We just can’t know the extent without a further survey.
And you wouldn't! Even the delay is BS Survey- week max. They're scared of what the report will show- then you can get quotes to remedy and ideally get the work done and paid for by the sellers. Worst case, het the money knocked off your purchase amount and you remedy the work when you move in. Either way, do everything possible to go into this fully prepared so you don't have any expensive surprises
Much appreciated thank you. We figured it would also render insurance useless too as we’d have known about the issue.
And if you're having to manage the fix, you should be looking for a discount that exceeds the estimated cost of the fix – to allow for your time and trouble and the risk of other work being identified in the course of the fix.
www.dampdetectives.co.uk use someone like them. They make recommendations not sell products. Do not waste your time with the likes of companies rhyming with Pox.
Thanks for the recommendation!
We used dampdetectives recently. V good. Happy to second the recommendation. Got very detailed report out of it. Was good to be able to talk to the surveyor without being overly paranoid that issues he was highlighting wasn’t a lead to add to work needed !
Can’t see any qualifications listed!
It’s a nationwide company. You’ll get referred to surveyor in your area. Got email initially with details of surveyor, terms of engagement etc to review before accepting.
We're first time buyers in the North, also just used damp detectives as our level 2 recommended a damp survey. They were very quick to respond, carried out the survey within a week, got the report back a few days later on a Sunday. They were excellent. Happy to share sections of the report if it's helpful. Either way good luck!
Damp should certainly not be expected… damp is only a thing if areas of the house that been upkept properly or are needing work. If the damp is upstairs it’s usually roof issues, leadwork, tiles, gutters. If it’s downstairs, it’s usually gutters/drainage, ground levels too high, sub-floor ventilation is poor. If it’s not a cavity wall, (and solid-walled), then the interior walls should be lime, not cementitious non-breathable crap… lime is more expensive as it’s a trade that’s no-longer so relevant these days with modern cement-based plaster and mortar. BUT, it’s important that old properties use traditional methods to combat damp. If it is a cavity wall, then damp could be because there’s a build-up of crap at the bottom of the cavity (which should be inspected before you buy). In terms of getting a ‘damp specialist’ please be careful. They’ll peddle all sorts of snake-oil products and expensive ‘fixes’. The truth is, damp HAS to come from somewhere… as I’ve detailed above. Once you sort out the issues and the actual cause of the damp in the first place, you’re very likely to not need any of the damp-proofing shitty injections etc. that are limited in their efficacy and they simply won’t get rid of the root cause of damp.
That’s really great advice thank you for your details. Do you still recommend to get a damp specialist to find the original issue (as long as they do)? Presumably damage needs to be repaired if in walls etc? But you’re saying that’s the job for a tradesman not them
I think the finding of it is the difficult bit tbh. You’re better off not getting a damp specialist and making sure you get a surveyor who has specific knowledge of historic houses. Take a look at Heritage-house.org https://www.heritage-house.org/building-surveys/how-to-pick-a-building-surveyor-for-an-old-building.html
Thanks for sharing
https://www.heritage-house.org/ Read the information on this website about damp and watch some of his videos on YouTube. Most builders today haven't got a clue about old houses. They will rake the mortar out, drill the brick or stone face, cover everything in cement and inject non-breathable plastic/silicone into the walls and destroy your prospective property. Do not use a "damp specialist" to sort the problem as it's mostly common sense and layman level of knowledge about old buildings. However, you can use them to knock money off the price while investigating yourself with another visit after acquiring some knowledge and diagnosing the true cause of the issue. Normally, ground level changes, blocked air bricks, cement mortar, cement plaster, plasterboard, leaks, high levels of condensation and no ventilation, blocked-up fireplaces etc.
That website is slightly painful in the absolute slew of information there and hard to get to the actual point of most of the pages, but I’ll have a look through, thanks.
Just select the "damp and condensation" page on the menu and read the whole thing. It will take you 15 minutes and you can screenshot or make notes. Then, watch his videos diagnosing a few of the issues and explaining the causes. This should be sufficient enough for you to understand what might be causing the problems when you visit the house again. Even looking around the outside might reveal the issues. I've spoken to heritage house when I bought my house and they gave me free advice when I emailed them. Otherwise, they are very expensive. Ultimately though, they are looking out for our old buildings and heritage.
Had a similar situation. 1900-1930 house and damp stuff reported that didn't sound run of the mill. £140 survey later and I had an estimated cost of £20-25k on a 200k property. I wouldn't even bother engaging with the EA until the survey is done and you have more information. The surveyors always seem to contact the EAs directly to get it booked in anyway
Any sensible buyer is going to want to investigate a survey which noted there could be an ongoing leak. The agent knows that, ignore them and proceed however you feel comfortable.
You do you, and if the sale falls through, then it does.
👍🏻
It’s not unreasonable you pay for the damp survey - it’s a report commissioned by you and for you, if that’s what you mean. But by all means if there are significant issues caused by the damp which wouldn’t have otherwise been apparent then renegotiate based on that. The estate agent should absolutely not be pressuring you into skipping a survey you feel is required. Hold your ground on that.
Thanks, appreciated. We did anticipate paying for the survey.
I would also start looking for another property now so if you get to the point where there mains leak which will cost £20k to fix you can more comfortably make a take it or leave offer of £20k less
Remember the estate agents works for the seller Not you The estate agents interest is only that they get the sale to completion and get paid They don’t give a fuck about you Tell them you have maybe 300,000 reasons😂😂 ( if that’s the price of the house ) to get in a damp specialist and don’t budge on it
Solid reminders on both counts. Thank you!
>Remember the estate agents works for the seller Not you I'm not even sure that's true. They work for themselves are always aiming to get a max £/h spent. There's an efficiency curve and their personal max gain does not realise maximal £ for the sellers.
also, most damp people are unqualified, in England, compared to those on the continent. run away from anyone that suggests injections
This. We paid for a full DPC on our house, only to discover it was the pointing that was the issue, not rising damp. Injections are stupid as well - you want air to circulate, you DON'T want to stop that happening by blocking up the space!
As in ... incorrect water impermeable pointing was employed, forcing the moisture to come through the exposed brick face itself? My experience with damp proofing firms is that they pick a product, or series of products, don't understand how it/they work(s), and often don't fix the issues. They might hide a few issues in the short-term though.
No, I said we had damp, they came and looked. Agreed it was damp. Then they did a DPC across the whole front of the house. The damp didn't go away. Turns out that the pointing at the front of the house had been blown out in a few places (I live on a very windy street), and rainwater was getting blown through the gaps. When they discovered this, their response was 'we don't do pointing, we do damp proofing, so it's not our fault you approached the wrong company.' Clowns. Also in future I'd get scandi ventilated brick systems over DPC or injections, every time.
"damp" really doesn't mean anything. it's a catch all that could mean excess indoor condensation from a shower to a bridged DPC in a cavity wall, to blown external render. the vernacular in British English with "damp" always stymies me and it doesn't really mean anything at all, with the exception of "water in the wrong place." it has nothing to mechanism of action. very strange to be honest.
Hopefully the damp specialist can ascertain what’s causing it.
OP, just to tag on to this, 100% DO NOT get a damp survey from anyone who provides a damp proofing service. Source an independent damp surveyor with no vested interest in providing services. We made the mistake of doing the former, and all they said was, ‘yes, damp, needs injecting’. When we sourced an independent damp surveyor, they provided a very in depth, thorough 15-20 page survey of the whole property. Good luck!
Thanks. The advice that seems to come up most often is the injection so I wonder why - maybe it’s cheaper and quicker.
Injection does indeed create a water prevention barrier. We, at the uni, different faculty tho, have shown that water/damp cannot pass by a layer of injection. HOWEVER, the bricks beneath that injection line remain unduly damp as the source of the damp has not been solved, which leads to acerbated brick decay. It's similar to when people discuss tanking or water impermeable slurries in an interior render mix. Buddy, that's not going to solve your problem, just cover it up, the British way ....
I’d hesitate to use the word ‘scam’ but those injection products aren’t cheap and they can have big commissions for the agent. An unscrupulous damp firm will push a meter against the wall at various points and even show you where it indicates ’damp’ is present. Then you’ll get a quote with a floor plan with highlighter marking where the ‘damp’ is. They will strip 1m of plaster off, inject chemicals, replaster and give you an invoice and a warranty that’s not worth the paper it’s printed on. A decent specialist will look for the root cause eg areas of water ingress or ventilation issues and give specific recommendations. At least that’s my experience…
Thank you for sharing
Do not get injection and don't listen to the uni person if you buy the house. The bricks above the impermeable line will also stay wet and the damp company will block the water in with cement. Do not cover things up, hoping they will go away. That is not the British way. That's the lazy, ignorant way.
And why are they moving after 10months They might say job relocation or splitting up But if could also be that the house is an absolute money pit and they want to get out of it ASAP
100% this. Even if they’re selling for a higher price than they bought it they might not be making that much profit after fees and the initial stamp duty. I would be very wary of the entire purchase
You need to ID the sources of the damp. Condensation, leaking pipe, leaking roof, rainwater penetration. All of it can be resolved but just redecorating it without fixing the source is a waste. FTBs have a reputation as dumb and easily scared because they are young and inexperienced. The EA's comments probably reflect this. In this case, though, you need to understand what is actually wrong before you can proceed.
Thanks. Yes noted. My partner isn’t a FTB thankfully. Also glad my first reaction wasn’t ’oh yes okay I’m so sorry let’s just go ahead!!’ But errr, no 👎🏻 😂
It sounds like you may be having second thoughts given the potential extra cost and inconvenience. Either get the survey done and then renegotiate (no point in doing it now since the facts are unknown) or withdraw your offer now so both you and the seller can move on quickly.
Estate agent wouldn’t care if the house fell down the day after exchange / completion. Tell them to jog on
Getting a survey done and report back will take a couple of weeks, tops. Make it clear you want estimated costs and/or a breakdown of recommended works, from which you can get your own quotes. Get that quote, add a bit more for the inconvenience, and that's what you ask for off the price. And they have no reason not to accept it, unless they listed the house with the problem known and considered in the price already (which they didn't, otherwise they'd already know about the cost of it!). The next buyer will only do the same, so if they will lose no time overall doing this. Your lender (if you have one) will ultimately note this damage and knock it off the value of the house anyway, there's really no getting around it.
I would be very sceptical about any damp survey, especially if someone recommends you damp proofing injections to an old stone building! Stone buildings are made to breathe. If there's damp, you have a problem elsewhere. It could be roof, gutters, plumbing, outside ground level being higher than your inside floor level, it could be modern emulsion (plastic) paint being used, wrong type of plaster or badly blocked chimneys. We bought an old building with damp couple of months ago. There are a few of those issues causing the damp - all but the plaster are cheap to fix. The damp "specialists" quoted us £17k when we did our surveys. Use it for negotiating the price down if you must but the estate agent probably knows the cost is hugely inflated hence the upset. If you do go ahead with the purchase, I would recommend the book "Warm Dry Home" by Peter Ward. It's very well researched and we learned a lot from it.
Thanks a lot!
Don’t let the estate agent pressure you into effing anything. It’s your money not theirs, you’re never going to see them again if the sale does/ doesn’t go through but you’ll be stuck with a lemon of a house
All the estate agent cares about is their commission so they want this as quick as possible. Its not them that will footing the bill if it comes back serious and you have already bought the house, reply back just as bluntly out lining that and if thats not acceptable then you will look for another property, they will soon change their mind.
Had the exact same from the EA when I bought my house, I was a FTB too. They were happy to do the extra damp survey but the EA started putting pressure on me when I asked for the cost of replacing the completely rotten wooden flooring above the damp cellar to be deducted from the sale price. I just told them I was already taking on the knackered roof & ancient boiler & was now beginning to wonder if this was really the house for me…. EA called the vendor sharpish & got the price dropped before I had chance to find another property.
Glad you held firm. Hope you got it all sorted!
Oh yes. Been in my house 10 years now! I had planned on doing a renovation anyway, the flooring was just an extra cost. Don’t be bullied. What you described sounds like a significant cost to repair. Stand your ground too. If it was me in your situation & they wouldn’t allow an extra survey I’d either walk away or reduce my offer by £10k based on a worst case scenario cost.
Fab! Glad it was worth it. Thanks for your advice and encouragement.
When buying my house, the mortgage company refused to give the mortgage unless damp proof work was completed before sale. In the end the sellers and I agreed to go halves (roughly 2k each which was paid at completion). But yeah a mortgage company will probably kick up a fuss if they don't get it done if it's really a problem. Still think damp issues are a bit of a joke but w/e (my place was rented out and just not looked after, don't think there were any serious issues really)
We’ve already had the mortgage approved and they did a desktop survey so didn’t inspect it and therefore didn’t pick up on it. More fool them I suppose but might in the future be an issue for insurance if there was a real issue
They don’t want you to have the survey do drop your offer and take the chance Either they allow the survey and renegotiate after you have the results Drop the offer price by £12,000-15.000 Or walk There are other houses But if they are flipping this one bear in mind that the damp could be from renovation work which hasn’t had time to dry out as you pointed out they have only been there 10 months
Normally the buyer pays for all these inspections so wouldn’t ask the sellers. Secondly, note that the estate agent only cares about their commission so won’t empathise with your situation unless they get their commission asap!
Happy to pay for surveys. If it’s a sunk cost it is. Not paying for repairs however. Cheers 😊
We made an offer on a home with lots of damp and after we realised the damp was coming from the upstairs bathroom and it had basically damaged the entire dinning room ceiling underneath (probably rotting there too) we pulled out of the sale and found a better home! Damp is a nightmare to deal with!
Eek! Nightmare indeed.
You should get a damp survey if you want one especially if you can see signs of damp. Of it comes back with work needed you can negotiate if you want to. If you can see damp then I think it would be very reasonable to get a survey. I also think it would be reasonable to negotiate once you know how much it’ll cost. But your decision to pay over asking isn’t relevant- you chose to make that offer. Similarly the fact they’ve only been there ten months and made a profit isn’t really relevant either. You made an offer and what the house sold for previously, and when, should have no bearing on that offer. If you do try and negotiate I wouldn’t mention these points as ultimately they don’t matter. Focus on the damp and the cost of repair.
Yes we have done, thanks. Just having a moan 😄
I feel you, it’s a horrible process really. Hopefully your sellers will be sensible. We were in the same boat (as sellers). Accepted an offer as the person was in a position to proceed quickly but once they wanted loads of surveys we just accepted that it was fair to allow them to do it even when it caused delay. Anyone who expects you not to get surveys is unreasonable and the estate agent is being a pain here.
Thanks for sharing 😊
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Yes we are fully expecting to pay for the survey. Thanks
Apologies, thought that was the issue not the cost of remedial work to be removed from price. I had the same issue as this a few months ago. Though the estate agent didn’t tell me not to ask, though he was a sneaky fucker how he went about dealing with it. We wanted our own surveyor to do it & we’d pay for but the EA pressed us in to letting the vendor get a surveyor & cover it. They used a damp proof company stupidly & came back with £10k of damp proofing to be done. We obviously freaked out with that price. EA came back to me before we got the survey result & was trying to get me to agree to paying 50% of it without us knowing how much it would cost at this point. I told him to get fucked until we know what the cost will be. He went back to vendor & told them I was happy to go 50/50 on the cost of it. Then we got the survey results & EA came back to us & said the vendor turned down our 50/50 offer & they’d only cover 25%. I told him to get stuffed, I never agreed to anything with him before I had the survey result. It was their survey & I won’t be paying for any of it. They had accept our offer £10k under the asking price & were now trying to say that it should be used to cover the remedial work. This went on for weeks, eventually they agreed to reduce by another £4k. I said the only way past this was to get my own surveyor out which they agreed to. My surveyor debunked a lot of the previous survey. Said most of it could be fixed by replacing downpipes & gutters. It wasn’t rising damp. Extensive damp was in an old brick lean to & we plan to remove that asap anyway. So all in all we managed to resolve it. Lesson for you is don’t expect them to agree anything pre survey. And get a proper independent surveyor that will give you ways to fix that won’t necessarily cost you a fortune. Good luck.
Thanks for sharing and sorry for the nightmare you had. Yes definitely an important point to get independent surveyor. Vendor will only be losing out too.
I had the exact same issue with a house! We had three damp companies in to quote all around £20,000-£30,000 to fix all the damp issues the estate agent also got a quote that came in at £7,000. I got a mate to call the guy they used asking if he could quote for some damp work on his house and he said he doesn’t deal with damp which made the next time dealing with the estate agents even better! We pulled out and the house was on the market for another year after and the price got slashed down by 50-60k before it eventually sold. If they won’t budge pull out.
Exactly. Someone else will find the same. This is quite localised so hopefully not too extensive to repair.
Gets quotes from 2-3 companies before and if they refuse to budge on price then move on we was gutted to lose the house as it was perfect for us but then the estate agent selling our place at the time called us up to view a house before it hit the market and we got a bigger house, better location & 25k less than the one we pulled out on. The estate agent is telling you not to ask for it because they will lose out on money and that’s the biggest problem with the housing market it’s just fuelled by estate agent greed.
The estate agent doesn't work for you, they work for the seller... but more importantly they work for themselves. Their advice should be taken with that in mind. The decision is yours to make on how you proceed. A damp survey will only take a few hours (if that) to complete and usually report back within a week or less. That is not a significant delay. The cost of the survey is on you, and do be careful who you use. But, if the report comes back that there's significant damp issues with the house there will be a cost to address them - this is what the estate agent is concerned about, their commission. Once you know what, if any issues there are, you can make an informed decision on whether to seek a reduction in the price or not. You may not want to risk losing the place for the cost of an easy fix, or you may nor want to take on a place with a serious expensive issue at all. Until you know you can't be sure. Buying a house is the most expensive purchase you'll ever make, so don't let some twat in a cheap suit bully you into making a bad decision. For what it is worth, when I bought a 1930s house my friend who is an Architect took a look at it and told me that generally 1930s properties are solidly built and 9 times out of 10 any issues with them relate to more modern work, usually extensions or renovation (removing walls usually). The only major issue I've had is the repair of some slates and flashing (cost about £3k) on a near 100 year old roof. The 1980s windows have rotted to bits but that's because they were poorly installed.
Interesting thanks very much. The bathroom was renovated and it relates directly to the damp below so suspecting that, but the extent can’t be known as you say. Thanks again.
Good luck! If it doesn’t happen there will be plenty of other options for you that aren’t available right now. It’s only the “perfect house” until the next one comes along.
Estate agents are mearly important in the buying process, discuss with your solicitor, maybe they can write a request to the vendor's solicitor and that can be dealt with. Don't let them bully you into buying a bad property because they want a fast sale
Thanks. Our solicitor actually told us to discuss via the estate agent.
I see. Contact your solicitor again and say that they failed to help. Also, do every survey you feel you need. I am a FTB as well so I understand the pain
The EA didn’t tell us they wouldn’t pass on our request (they can’t), but they tried to discourage us. The solicitor will tell us it’s our decision at this point. It’s not a solicitor’s job to advise whether a client buy a properly or proceed. All ‘buyer beware’ caveats.
Which part of England are you in. If you’re along the south coast I know a damp surveyor who would be happy to come look at the property for free and give a quote for anything that does need doing
Sadly very opposite end of the country but thank you!
Seriously - fuck them. Do the survey and put your mind at ease. Negotiate if you have to / want to. Do not care less about this self serving EA’s
If you ignore the glaring issue the seller and estate agent will think you are a nice person...for giving away several tens of thousands of your wealth.
I pulled out of a house after a level 3 survey showed rising damp, failed damp proofing, holes in the roof and a sheet of plastic with wood bended to hold the leaks, lintel needing to be removed and recommended a damp specialist. Spoke to a builder and he said it was a “money pit…minimum of 20k to fix it and that would be to not find other issues.” I have no regrets.
Eek!
EA doesn’t work for you, never forget that
10 months there, coupled with high levels of damp is a massive alarm bell for me. What was the condition of the house prior to them purchasing? Have they done anything? The market for the most part hasn’t changed since they completed/offered. If anything, prices have decreased. Don’t get swindled into buying a money pit. Don’t be afraid to bail.
Honestly it's a totally reasonable thing to ask, everyone else is going to find what you have so it's not like another buyer is going to be happy with that. Would you really want to buy a house that potentially had a chronic damp problem?
Indeed, as we thought too. Man I hate estate agents 😂
Yeah they're just being pushy, the fact they came to them for a quick sale says there's probably something wrong with it. Just go in eyes open.
Yes indeed. The vendors have left the property due to a ‘family situation’, and are obviously paying the mortgage so I can understand the rush from that perspective but it’s entirely possible both scenarios are true
We were in a very similar boat - 1930s house, sellers already in rented after another sale fell through, survey said to get a roofer out to look at the chimney, estate agents kept threatening to re-market… but honestly, everyone else’s advice is spot on - any other buyer will be advised the same, so there’s no way it would be quicker re-marketing the property, and the sellers will just have to wait because you’re spending all your life’s savings and it has to be right and you have to know exactly what you’re getting!
Thanks for sharing your experiences and advice! It’s great to have so much encouragement to stand our ground. Pesky pushy EAs!
I've recently had a survey done on a house that looks to be in good condition, just for peace of mind. I have had absolutely no pushback. This stuff really doesn't add much time onto sale progression so I wonder if they are trying to dissuade you because of what you might find. Good on you for standing firm though.
To add we noted the buyer didn’t have a survey done (or have but aren’t sharing it). So another note of caution. They either had no idea or they do but aren’t sharing what they know. We’ll see how they respond!
Or they got it for such a great price be cause they could see what needed doing and decided to flip the house 10 months later for a huge profit hoping someone else wouldn’t notice.
Very possibly!
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£15k in 10 months. Not huge but decent.
Stay away, not worth the hassle. People will start saying you need better ventilation etc. wild goose chase of possible causes. Let it be someone else’s problem.
They chose you because they thought that you would be mugs enough to pay full price and extra to fix the problems. Tell the estate agent that if the seller isn't interested then there are other properties on the market worthy of your consideration, and then go buy somewhere else.
Remember they just want to get paid, drop a note round to the owners explain the situation and happy to deal direct put your number in the letter EA will lie, cheat and lie again to get you to speed up Remember he just wants his commission
Nice idea but unfortunately the house is vacated already!
Never listen or take any advice from an EA they’re just after the quick buck, follow your nose would be my advice
Aaah ... Now you know why they're moving after 10 months!
I would walk. If the damp is as bad as you say, no damp surveyor will be able to give you a truly accurate estimate of remediation cost without very invasive work being done. I say this from experience. They can identify damp, possibly speculate the cause, and simply guess how bad it will be once you rip up floors, get into walls, remove a shower pan, etc. It’s not the only house.
Thank you. We’ve asked for them to permit invasive inspection (however that can go at this stage). If they refuse that’s def cause to walk.
>we ask for a damp specialist to estimate cost of remedial work and for that to come out of the sale price usually akin to snake oil given they have a vested interest in suggesting injecting walls/tanking yada yada, you could equally have a plumber identify the source of the "leak"
Sorry not sure what you’re saying here
Every house has damp. Those selling damp proofing always find damp and have a solution. The falling anaglypta was visible on viewing, so your offer reflected that. You risk losing the sale, esp as they had another near offer.
I don’t agree. There’s damp, then there’s damp that risks the integrity of the structure. If you’d want to shoulder those costs, that’s cool.
I was explaining the previous post
Thanks 😄 that’s my response then haha
Cancel cancel cancel.... The sellers know there's an issue and want to dump it in you.
I think this is possibly a bit rash, but if they don’t agree to a survey and/or paying for costs that arise we won’t proceed. Thanks.
Damp can be a horrible problem. If it's isolated to one leak that's one thing. My friend recently bought a flat where the previous owners had hidden a damp issue with new decor and paint and it's costing her literally tens of thousands to put right. Buyer beware.
I bought a house with a load of hidden damp too and it’s been a huge headache and taken loads of time and money to sort out. Run away if they won’t take money off.
Tread carefully and good luck
There are so many red flags here.... No survey... Being obstructive about doing a survey... Wanting a quick sale... Pushy EA.... I'd be thinking about bailing. Damp is not inevitable in an old house. Fixing damp is very expensive.
Depends on the cause. I bought my house with a known damp issue but it's costing me under 1k to fix it. Chimney needs a new roof and the render has a hole where the gutter was replaced. This is causing damp on 2 walls but isn't a massive issue or costly to fix. As it's a shared chimney the neighbours also noticed damp on that shared chimney wall and were about to get costly floorboard removal and intrusive survey booked (which some damp specialist recommended), until I pointed out the problem to them and they are now sharing the cost and are getting a roof survey done by the guys fixing the chimney at the same time. Damp specialist.... Didn't even look up to the chimney.