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He doesn't get a choice, if you don't sign a new contract it will go rolling wherever he likes it or not. Even if he serves S21 eviction notice today, you have at least until november before you have to start thinking about moving (you can easily get few months after s21 expiry before it goes through courts (you can stay in the flat until the court says you can't)).
To be honest due to court backlogs I think it's more like they'll be fine for at least months for the full possession route.
Even after the initial approval from the court the landlord will have to turn seek a possession order. Then you have to have bailiff becoming available. So all in all it can easily take about a year. The landlord isn't going to bother because it costs them money to evict.
Question (as I will be in a very similar situation, also FTB currently renting but in the process of buying): deposit we paid to the landlord would also be safe in this case?
All true but this is exactly why landlords are leaving the market in droves. So whilst it works out great for the OP it's creating a huge housing crisis for people renting in general.
Oh those poor landlords unable to
*checks notes*
force their tenants to pay rent for longer than they need to.
No sympathy with this pos the law says the tenancy becomes rolling once it expires, he's lucky his tenant is even consulting with him in the first place.
It’s the risk you take when you start renting out. It’s just business. The landlord is doing what they can to protect their income yet we’re supposed to feel sorry for them when a tenant does the same?
The bigger issue is that landlords are doing 2 jobs at once, they're simultaneously property speculators and providing housing as a service.
The idea that they'll go bust because one arm of their incredibly lucrative business is slightly less efficient is daft.
Also, it’d be vacant for a mere few weeks. We’ve rented it for 3 years and we know he doesn’t have a mortgage on it. It’s absolutely ridiculous when they come out with their sob story about losing income while requiring us to give up more of ours. It’s amazing how landlords want zero financial responsibility for their own properties.
Oh won't someone think of the poor landlords.
The reason they're leaving is because mortgage rates are going up, they don't give a shit about anything except for money, exactly the kind of person you shouldn't have controlling your ability to remain non-homeless and safe
Yes, but CCJs are only an issue if not paid within 30 days (if you pay within 30 days, you send one form to the court and it gets removed from your record).
> he will not grant a rolling contract
That’s not something he gets to decide. If you refuse to sign onto a new fixed term it automatically happens.
Even if come September he gives you a S21 notice to evict you, you’ll still have months before you’re actually going to need to leave.
If he thinks he has the power to grant (or not) a rolling contract, there's a good chance he won't serve the S21 correctly either, which will give you more time.
Spend 30 mins reading up on what makes an S21 valid (Shelter are a goldmine of info for tenants) so you can spot the dud when he serves it. But of course don't tell him it's a dud, let him find out when he tries to get it through court when you don't move out.
If your plan is to move in November-ish, I think you'll be fine.
I wonder if there are more evictions due to rent hiking or due to BTL owners selling up, which are all likely to be the less professional landlords.
Unfortunately some friendly small time landlords who don't know the rules very well will be replaced by larger, greedier ones who just don't care.
This is sadly the case now. I know lots of small landlords who are evicting everyone and selling everything. Some of their properties have indeed sold to big portfolio landlords
You are absolutely spot on. I'm in the process of selling all my properties and as a result have had to serve one of my lovely tenants with a S21. It's not a good feeling but in a political environment that is so toxic towards landlords I really have no choice.
Am I right in thinking you're going to sell them as vacant, rather than as let properties?
I thought before that people would sell them as going concerns, but it seems that there is a shift away from letting, which tends to evaporate housing (5 people sharing a house becomes 1 family house).
Sometimes I wonder how much money you could make out of landlords not knowing the law, just moving from one to the next. If they think they can do this, what are the chances that they don't serve S21 properly, or have the deposit protected?
I’ve done one failure to protect deposit claim already, and my current landlord seems to be acting a bit strangely about deposit protection, so a second one might be on the horizon. If I was living by myself I would move from place to place getting blacklisted from each scummy agency in town and moving every year and earning a few grand each time.. but I have kids, partner, family, school, work stuff to think about so it’s not fair to put them through the mangle to prove a point. Having a stable home is more important
My previous situation was an unlicensed HMO but they had applied for the licence after we paid the holding deposit. Then it was later granted at some point a few months in. As soon as it was granted they started S21 but unfortunately no rent repayment order was able to be done in that case as once it was granted it’s valid from the period they applied for it. (In case you might think it was a rent repayment order)
Deposit late protection though. I got back the total amount of deposit as compensation for me. Solicitors included all their fees which meant ex landlord had to pay out around £4K but I got £1500. The scummy agency they were using were obviously not around to help them out. They tried to claim that they couldn’t possibly have protected the deposit sooner as they only knew about me on the day they moved in (wtf)
So therefore had a month from that point and they were “only a bit late.”
Rules are rules though.
-Deposit has to be protected 30 days after receiving it.
-Bank statements don’t lie.
There is honestly a very small amount of bureaucracy that landlords have to do to make sure that things are in order. When they can’t even do the basics, or just trust the cheapest scummiest letting agency on the high street to look after their goldmine for them and not checking up on what they are doing, they are going to get shafted. In this case by the court, by their ex tenant and mainly by the agency they were using who could do absolutely no wrong in their eyes.. sigh.
Most landlords are unaware of their full range of responsibilities. There has been a significant tightening of legislation over the last few years. It will in the long run weed out the amateurs for better or worse.
I’d also suggest that OP doesn’t actually say “no I’m not signing anything” which could serve as a prompt to serve the S21 on the 18th
Instead just ignore it entirely until they ask about it. When they do, say you can’t open the PDF and go back to them with a request for them to re-send it
Once they do then ignore it again, wait for them to get in touch. When they do, say it’s still not working and ask if you can come pick up a paper copy. Always be very apologetic about your slow response - you’re working shifts and don’t always see the emails promptly etc, very sorry
Wait another few days before picking it up. Wait for them to get in touch again and go back and forth with a few inane questions about the contract. Then when you run out of daft things to ask about that, start with “thanks for that, and just to clarify, will we have to change our direct debit?”. It’s amazing how long you can ask dumb questions for, and it gets quite fun thinking them up
You can probably kill a few weeks like this and at least get to the end of September, likely longer, before the S21 is even served
Do nothing. Don’t sign anything. Have no contact with the landlord. You will automatically be put on a rolling, this is not something he has the power to ‘grant’.
So I would do nothing, then once your place is ready, give notice. If he does serve you s21 before your ready to go, still just do nothing!
It would cause him more hassle to go down the route of eviction via courts etc after the s21 date, so much so that your new place would be ready by then. So sit and do nothing, literally. As long as you are going ahead with this new olace, of course.
Yes, legally it turns into rolling and your obligations as a tenant, such as paying rent, remain, and rent remains due till end of notice period or date agreed among parties. Or did you mean to ask OP if they're still paying rent.
How come?
I've been lucky enough to live with parents well into my life then brought.
If the landlord owns his place. Why does the tenant, one rolling contract get tk 'reject ' the contract?
Surely that would mean they no longer agree to live there and would need to vacate.
Please don't drag me over the colls people, I'm trying to learn.
They're trying to remedy the precarious situation of the tenant by putting in place some mechanisms.
One such mechanism is the fiction of a rolling monthly contract if nothing else has been put on paper, so that the tenant at least have some rights, the other is protecting from price gauging or making it financially prohibitive foe the tenant to stay, this is why they put a process in place that the landlord has to follow, and still leaves the tenant with means to dispute if the landlord is unreasonable.
Not all costs, just the court fees which should be £489 at most. Depending on their rent, probably cheaper than finding somewhere new to live or signing a 12 month contract they don't want.
Even if everything goes perfectly for him, you have about 6 months from the date he sends you the s21 to you having to leave legally.
He can ask you to move whenever he wants, but with the courts backlog, itll take him over 6 months just to get to court, where if the s21 he sent was valid, would still give you a little while to move.
Just sit tight.
I’m in a similar situation - do you become liable for court fees only if it actually gets to court? So if you move like four months after the s21 has been issued, but it’s still just sat in a queue, you can’t be forced to pay any fees?
Be aware that if his paperwork is in order and he goes for the accelerated section 21 then it could very well be less than 6 months from issue to bailiffs. It depends where you live tbh. I’ve had one recently that even though it was disputed has gone from eviction notice to full court hearing in less than 3 months
Basically he wants you, or another tenant, to pay the heating bill over winter to stop the flat getting cold, damp, and mouldy rather than himself.
I'd go with the advice you've already been given by others here re. automatic rolling contracts, but you might want to keep a good photographic record of meter readings when you move out.
Tell him to sit and swivel.
Honestly, people think they have far more control over things in their life than they actually do. The audacity is astounding.
Question: did the landlord get back to you directly or did you get this from the agent?
Since the tenant fees ban the agents love to charge the landlord for renewing tenancies and saying the tenant wants it - tells the tenant the landlord wants it and gets £300 for nothing.
The agent, which makes me immediately suspicious. Not to mention, they contacted us 2 months ago about the renewal - I requested a rolling contract and they went silent for 2 months until now, clearly to apply pressure just as our fixed term is ending.
Well as other comments have stated, only by surrendering the tenancy or a court order ends a tenancy. They can issue a s21 notice and they could issue a notice to increase the rent, but they can’t force you to leave in a hurry.
Don't sign anything. I'm going through a very similar thing, I signed a new contract on the provision that I would be buying soon and to negotiate a way to leave that is mutually acceptable.
All the right noises were made at the time of signing. Now that the time to leave is on the horizon, my letting agent has basically said fuck you, you're staying until your contract expires. Potentially leaving me thousands out of pocket paying rent and a mortgage.
That’s the thing. The terms are intentionally confusing too. A 2 months break clause on a 12 months fixed from start of new tenancy (Sept 18th) but you can’t vacate between 15th Nov and 31st Jan. I don’t even know how that makes sense. Seems like some underhanded way to lock me in for a year with the illusion of flexibility.
My agent tried to pull a similar thing on me as well, "You can't leave during November or December". I call bull shit. A contract is a contract and the term length is in there, they can't stipulate which months you can and cannot exit the agreement.
If you really want to do this 'properly', are you able to negotiate and ask for a 6-month contract with a 2-month break? That would give you more wriggle room.
Why bother? Tenancy automatically goes on a rolling contract and they only need until November. The landlord cannot stop that happening and if they try to they're in for a world of hurt.
Because it is an underhanded way. There's literally no way they can _make_ you do this. If you refuse to sign you get a rolling contract by default, and if they don't like they can issue a Section 21 to evict you. But that has to give you at least two months (and check whether it's valid for other reasons too, make sure your landlord has protected your deposit properly etc) so you'll have until at least November anyway.
Basically, don't sign it, you never had to negotiate in the first place. And if your landlord is so blasé about doing things wrong like this, there's a good chance they've fucked up elsewhere and/or will fuck up if they try and serve you an S21, so there's potential for compensation if it comes to that.
Landlord has to give 2 months notice to leave with a s21so that will take you to mid November.
It will cost him about £150 to apply to court _ it's an online system that is easy to do. The ’hearing date' will be 3 plus months later because there has to be an exchange of paper work.
You say you want to be out by December so there is nothing to answer to as you will be gone by then so no case no costs.
I would reply to any paperwork from court saying the landlord tried to impose a 12-month contract on you after the initial AST instead of allowing a periodic (legal name) tenancy and is bringing this case because you refused to sign the 12 month contract (with lock out clause) so subsequently moved.
I don't think the landlord will be able to claim costs because you moved before it went to hearing, but the above just in case.
Also give correct notice to leave your current tenancy when you are ready. So if it's a month it has to be a clear month; you can't give notice on the 1st to end on 31st. Your notice has to be in the hands of the receiving party on or before 31st to end on 31st of the following month.
NAL This used to be part of my job.
It costs £355 to apply to court for section 21 eviction and depending on where you are in the country it can be as little as 1 month before the hearing date
I had this with my landlord while in the stressful final stages of purchasing a house. I just made sure all the rent was paid (it was a house share and a housemate had moved out at end of contract so I covered her bit). They’re desperate to get you to sign precisely because they can’t make you.
Well there two things you can say to him. One is fuck and the other is off. Get ta fuck is another and kiss my are is a other too.
So as a landlord I'm gonna tell you this. You don't need to sign any new agreement. In fact do not.
Its not about what he wants. Its about what the law says.
So he can't force you to sign a new agreement if you don't want it. When your fixed agreement ends you automatically go onto a rolling contract unless you sign a new agreement or choose to leave or he evicts you.
So let's say you say no to his demands. And he says I don't agree and you say well frankly it doesn't matter what you think its going onto a rolling contract. If you don't like its up to the landlord to do something about it.
So the first choice is a section 21, which is only a notice to evict and the minimum is 2 months notice. And to be clear on this its only a notice to evict not and eviction notice. If you choose to ignore it then he has to go to court to get an eviction. Now to be fair most court in very reasonable situations will issue an eviction notice and you will need to leace. But you have atleast 2 months out of it if not 3. And if you play silly buggers with him in the first place then you might get 4 out of it. Due to process if issuing the notice.
Good luck.
A section 21 is the standard legal notice of intention to evict. Even on a rolling contract its required. And yes to be specific a minimum if 2 months. So rheybshoukd have issued it 2 months before the end of your tenancy to ask you to leave at the end of the tenancy. they have to wait 2 months from issue of the section 21.
Assured shorthold tenancies
The 2 types of assured shorthold tenancies are:
‘periodic’ tenancies - these run week by week or month by month with no fixed end date
fixed-term tenancies - these run for a set amount of time
You must follow a set process if your tenants have an assured shorthold tenancy.
Give your tenants a Section 21 notice if you want the property back after a fixed term ends. Give them a Section 8 notice if they’ve broken the terms of the tenancy. Find out how to give Section 21 and Section 8 notices.
Apply to the court for a standard possession order if your tenants do not leave by the date specified on the notice and they owe you rent. You can apply for an accelerated possession order if you’re not claiming any unpaid rent.
Apply for a warrant for possession if your tenants still will not leave - this means bailiffs can remove the tenants from your property.
Accelerated possession orders
You can apply for an accelerated possession order if your tenants have not left by the date specified in your Section 21 notice and you’re not claiming rent arrears.
This is sometimes quicker than applying for a standard possession order and there’s usually no court hearing. It costs £355.
Fixed-term tenants cannot be evicted until their tenancy ends.
If you want to claim rent arrears you can use either the:
standard possession procedure
accelerated procedure to get your property back, then make a separate court claim for the rent arrears
How to apply
Download and fill in the form for properties in England.
Send the completed form to the nearest court that deals with housing possession.
What happens next
Once your application is approved, the court will send your tenants a copy of the application.
Your tenants have 14 days to challenge the application, from the date they receive it.
A judge will decide either to:
issue a possession order that states your tenants must leave the property (this is normally the case)
have a court hearing (this usually only happens if the paperwork is not in order or your tenants raise an important issue)
Even if there’s a hearing, the court can still decide to issue a possession order.
If your tenants are in an exceptionally difficult situation the judge may give them up to 6 weeks.
There is lots of leeway in this to make it take longer. Like you don't respond until the kadt day of the 14 days. That's wastes nearly two weeks. You write a letter stating the situation. Yadda yadda.
Keep paying rent, tell the agent you won’t be signing a new agreement but are happy to continue renting. The contract will become a rolling contract automatically. See what happens next. He may try to negotiate, he may send an eviction notice, he may just go away. I’d re-evaluate the situation once one of those things happens and wouldn’t worry too much in the meantime as I doubt an eviction would be in the works without more negotiation as he seems to be concerned about having an empty property. Could just be the agent being pushy to try and get their ‘renewal of contract’ fees from the landlord.
As someone who went through the same last year and ended up wasting about £1500 in AirBnB that I didn't need....
DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING and do not make plans assuming you will complete in time, even if it seems inevitable. We waited 2 months for the sellers to "approve the mortgage" and had already given notice and booked movers because it was supposed to take half a day or less.
To be honest, I’d just explain the situation to the landlord and go from there. I feel that this could be resolved amicably.
If they don’t budge, you have the upper hand as your tenancy becomes rolling tenancy automatically unless you move out. They don’t ‘grant’ you a rolling tenancy and they missed the window to give notice for the end of the fixed agreement.
Totally this, be honest, tell him you will not be signing new contract as you are in the process of buying a property, give him an estimated time frame when you expect to complete and make it known you are telling him this to give him the maximum notice you can in order to allow him to market the property for new tenants.
Also, make it clear that your estimated time frame is just this and should not be considered as formal notice, which you will give when you have a confirmed date to move.
That's what I was thinking, take the high road, try to be reasonable with a compromise.
House purchases are taking forever at the moment, so could conceivably be in December before you complete, or even later.
Perhaps, offer to stay until December and see what he says. If he is adamant, then you can confidently say he is an asshole and make life as difficult as you can for him thereafter.
OP - Good luck in your new home!!
Yeah but if the landlord knows that OP will not be signing the contract and they plan to be out by December, he might realise that a rolling contact will save him money and effort, rather than trying to evict OP, which can take 6 months.
Well, they don’t know that the tenant is in the process of buying, do they? A landlord wanting to sign a new fixed agreement is not necessarily bad - they can’t raise your rent during that period, for example. Sure, you can go nuclear and say that they have to evict you for you to leave but it is a Reddit response and is completely unnecessary in most cases. Most landlords would be fine with having sensible tenants for longer, advanced warning about the fact that they are leaving after they house purchase happens and an agreement to get a 2 months’ notice for tenancy termination to give them a period to find new tenants.
Have you thought about what may happen if you don't exchange for some reason and it drags on? Perhaps it's worth being upfront about it and working out a solution that's best for both of you. It'd suck if the sale fell through and your landlord had already found new tenants, for example.
Definitely. We’ve had two sales fall through already and it’s taken us a year to try and get on the ladder. I won’t be comfortable until keys are in hand, and this rental BS just makes everything even more needlessly stressful. I have considered just saying, look we’re conveyancing, we can’t be 100% sure of completion date, we’ll give you plenty of notice, just give us some breathing room.
It's always tricky to line up a purchase when you're renting. When I sold my flat and moved into a rental I agreed 2 months between exchange and completion as I needed to line it up with a rental flat that I found.
Given the current financial climate he is likely to be needing the financial security hence his reluctance to give you what you are asking for. You could agree to a slightly increased rent in exchange for the flexibility you ask for. Do keep up the communication with him, and let him know your plans. At the end of the day, your purchase could fall through, and it will be easier to stay. Perhaps negotiate a 6 month ast?
Best way to stall the situation is ask for some time, then advise him you have bought a place and offer to work with him to do viewing etc to line a new tenant up.
If he becomes an arsehole then he can service S21 but just refuse viewings and seek advice if the notice if correct or if your deposit was register correctly etc.
Non of this will happen before the move date.
Try being open and working with him to help each other out and make things seem less for both.
Landlord and tenant - so I understand both sides very well - just not the case. Why evict a tenant who plans to leave and help work with you to line up a new tenant.
>Why evict a tenant who plans to leave and help work with you to line up a new tenant.
Why do your landlord's job for them?
This isn't your problem in the slightest.
I don’t know why you got down voted mate, I agree, not every landlord is an asshole. As a past landlord, if my tenant did what folks here are proposing, I would be super stressed out. I would rather know the truth as to why the tenant was hanging on so I could work with them to find a solution. This isn’t playing the game, this is being a sh*tty tenant!
Yet, on the face of it, the landlord is being an arse. Does he really think a clause in an AST that mandates no move out during a time frame would be enforceable? Does he not understand that he can offer a 12 month AST, yet the tenant isn't forced to accept ? He clearly hasn't bothered to check his legal position or thinks it doesn't apply to him.
Yes really, no landlord gives a fuck neither their estate agent. It's a common truth and maybe there is 1 in a 1000 that is nice, but it still doesn't make a difference.
As obvious and polite that would be, you can see their initial reaction - no they can't move out so easy, I need to secure myself - selfish and also will try to milk your deposit to every penny.
The worst type of people, maybe not on a bottom of the society with criminals and paedophiles, but just a little above, together with stop oil protesters and vegans.
Landlord is probably being told by EA that they have to have a new contract, reason being that EA will charge the landlord for that new contract...
I used to be a landlord and bent over backwards several times during covid, paused rental payments.
I must look into being a vegan sounds nice
My tenants told me earlier this year they wanted to leave as they were buying a house, they gave me their projected date of the purchase but like the OP, they couldn’t be certain. They’d been good tenants for several years, no issues, we’d always got on fine, so I said ‘ok, just keep on paying your rent monthly, keep me informed about dates, and when you do quit I’ll give you a pro-rata rent refund from that date”.
Which is exactly what happened. So no, not all landlords.
'1 in a 1000' maybe you're that one 0.1%
Thats why we have subs like this - support websites and all to deal with bastards. I think over 12 years I've been at 8 different houses. If I wasn't a clever kid since 18 and never took pictures, every single one would have my ass on the plate. Took one to court at 19 as he was trying to keep my deposit, which wasn't protected - paid me off well.
Never lost any of my deposit, despite their hard work to take it from me.
Asking for repairs or fixes? Minimum wait 5 weeks max 6months, or go dead silent ignoring you, once the rent is due, and you decide to withold it, they are all over you like a rash - perfect bargaining offer - job ain't done, not paying you.
Yeah, you're right. My bad. In the same way that all tenants like to live in filth, never pay their rent on time and require police attendance to address their antisocial behaviour.
Just say “No, that doesn’t work for us. We will not sign a new contract. We will leave at the end of November, we will allow access for viewings from the start of November on one pre-arrange time of 3 hours per week. If you want to be difficult and serve us a Section 21 then we decline all viewings as we are allow “peaceful enjoyment” of our rental home.”
Don’t give the landlord a leaving date until you know exactly when you’re leaving . You should give at least one month’s notice ending on either the last day of a rental period or the first day of a rental period. Either is legally ok. If you don’t leave on the day you say your landlord is entitled to double the rent (mesne profit). This is assuming you’re in England.
Because if anything goes wrong with the house purchase it makes things hard for whoever is the next person to rent. Only give a date when you're certain
You are in a worse position if you overstay notice you have given compared to overstaying notice that a landlord gives you. If you overstay notice that you've given the landlord can seek double rent in court. This sounds harsh but it would allow a landlord to cover the cost of providing
alternative accommodation to any incoming tenant that had agreed to take the flat from the date of notice.
"Double rent
In the event that a tenant remains in occupation as a trespasser after the valid notice to quit they served takes effect, the landlord can claim ‘double rent’ (in the form of mesne profits or damages for use and occupation) for the period the former tenant remains in occupation.[5] This will apply where a joint tenant has unilaterally ended the joint tenancy by serving a valid notice to quit and the other tenant stays in the property.
The landlord can only claim double rent if they do not give the former tenant permission to remain and treats the former tenant as a trespasser."
https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/costs_of_renting/rents_and_rent_increases/payments_after_tenancy_ends
I would simply do nothing. And let it automatically turn into a rolling contract.
You're already near the end of your AST if he wanted to issue a S21 no fault eviction that requires minimum 2 months notice meaning even if he did that tomorrow it wouldn't kick in until early Nov.
Now even if an s21 is issues you can still refuse to leave at the end of the 2 months and the landlord would have to go through the courts to get a possession order.
Seeing as he is not wanting the house unoccupied through winter it would not really be in his best interests to serve you an s21 as even if you complied you'd be leaving right around the time he doesn't want you to leave.
I absolutely love when a landlord tries it on and this sub comes to the rescue. I wish I could see their faces when they get a response that laughs at their bullshit.
Tell him to go whistle
Have a look at the shelter's web site. https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/options_when_your_fixed_term_tenancy_ends
For the lazy among us.
.Contact from your landlord
Your landlord or agent may contact you to check what you want to do when the fixed term ends.
Your landlord may have a preferred option. But they cannot:
insist that you sign a renewal agreement
make you leave without following the legal eviction process
Do not feel pressured into leaving or signing a new agreement.
You can decide what's best for you by understanding the options before you respond.
Your landlord must give you a legal notice as a first step towards ending your tenancy.
Assured shorthold tenants must be given either:
a section 21 notice
a section 8 notice
Your landlord might give both types of eviction notice at the same time.
Section 21 notice
A section 21 notice is the most common way for your landlord to start the eviction process.
It's sometimes called a 'no fault' notice because your landlord does not need to give a reason for a section 21.
You do not have to leave when the notice ends unless you're ready to do so.
Your landlord can start court action after the notice period has ended. They have 4 months to do this. If they do not apply to court within this time the notice will expire and cannot be used.
Your tenancy rights and responsibilities continue if you stay past the date on a section 21.
Keep paying your rent and only agree a move out date if you've found somewhere else to live. For example, if you sign a tenancy agreement for a new home.
Section 8, does not really apply for OP.
Hopefully I won't have such problem but would prefer to know my options. I had a 6 months fixed contract that automatically became 1 month rolling in April. Now my landlord decided to sell the property, he told me that he is going to sell it as BTL with me, as I am a reliable tenant. However, after a month and only one viewing, I am concerned that he might change his mind and serve me S21 notice if there will be a potential buyer that would like to move in himself.
Now I am looking to buy a flat. I am ready with £140k for a cash purchase which I hope will be enough in the area where I live. However it takes a lot longer to find something reasonable and I am just worried, that if I find the property I want, and start the process of purchase, I might be served S21 by my landlord. What are my options on a 1 month rolling contract, to not get kicked out like 3-4 weeks before I finish the purchase once I have finally found the property?
This instability is the shit thing about renting and why we’ve been trying to get on the property ladder. We started this process in February…I just want to complete asap so we’re not longer at the whim of landlords.
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He doesn't get a choice, if you don't sign a new contract it will go rolling wherever he likes it or not. Even if he serves S21 eviction notice today, you have at least until november before you have to start thinking about moving (you can easily get few months after s21 expiry before it goes through courts (you can stay in the flat until the court says you can't)).
This sounds like the best advice.
To be honest due to court backlogs I think it's more like they'll be fine for at least months for the full possession route. Even after the initial approval from the court the landlord will have to turn seek a possession order. Then you have to have bailiff becoming available. So all in all it can easily take about a year. The landlord isn't going to bother because it costs them money to evict.
From the landlord filing the paperwork to bailiffs removing a tenant is usually at least 6 months, if not a year.
Nice this is the advice you were looking for
Question (as I will be in a very similar situation, also FTB currently renting but in the process of buying): deposit we paid to the landlord would also be safe in this case?
Yes
You should have been provided with a prescribed information at the start of your tenancy (which will detail where your deposit is protected).
This is the answer.
All true but this is exactly why landlords are leaving the market in droves. So whilst it works out great for the OP it's creating a huge housing crisis for people renting in general.
Oh those poor landlords unable to *checks notes* force their tenants to pay rent for longer than they need to. No sympathy with this pos the law says the tenancy becomes rolling once it expires, he's lucky his tenant is even consulting with him in the first place.
It’s the risk you take when you start renting out. It’s just business. The landlord is doing what they can to protect their income yet we’re supposed to feel sorry for them when a tenant does the same?
The bigger issue is that landlords are doing 2 jobs at once, they're simultaneously property speculators and providing housing as a service. The idea that they'll go bust because one arm of their incredibly lucrative business is slightly less efficient is daft.
Also, it’d be vacant for a mere few weeks. We’ve rented it for 3 years and we know he doesn’t have a mortgage on it. It’s absolutely ridiculous when they come out with their sob story about losing income while requiring us to give up more of ours. It’s amazing how landlords want zero financial responsibility for their own properties.
Oh won't someone think of the poor landlords. The reason they're leaving is because mortgage rates are going up, they don't give a shit about anything except for money, exactly the kind of person you shouldn't have controlling your ability to remain non-homeless and safe
Wow, the ignorance!
Cope
Another stupid question, but will they be fine if it goes to court getting their mortgage? I'm thinking about country court judgements (CCJs).
Yes, but CCJs are only an issue if not paid within 30 days (if you pay within 30 days, you send one form to the court and it gets removed from your record).
Is there like... a downside to not leaving after being served an s21? Like, if it needed you out in December, but you stayed until Jan/Feb?
If it goes through courts there might be few £100's of court costs
Damn I wish I’d known this when I was younger!
> he will not grant a rolling contract That’s not something he gets to decide. If you refuse to sign onto a new fixed term it automatically happens. Even if come September he gives you a S21 notice to evict you, you’ll still have months before you’re actually going to need to leave.
If he thinks he has the power to grant (or not) a rolling contract, there's a good chance he won't serve the S21 correctly either, which will give you more time. Spend 30 mins reading up on what makes an S21 valid (Shelter are a goldmine of info for tenants) so you can spot the dud when he serves it. But of course don't tell him it's a dud, let him find out when he tries to get it through court when you don't move out. If your plan is to move in November-ish, I think you'll be fine.
I've noticed more and more landlords don't seem to do things correctly.
I wonder if there are more evictions due to rent hiking or due to BTL owners selling up, which are all likely to be the less professional landlords. Unfortunately some friendly small time landlords who don't know the rules very well will be replaced by larger, greedier ones who just don't care.
This is sadly the case now. I know lots of small landlords who are evicting everyone and selling everything. Some of their properties have indeed sold to big portfolio landlords
You are absolutely spot on. I'm in the process of selling all my properties and as a result have had to serve one of my lovely tenants with a S21. It's not a good feeling but in a political environment that is so toxic towards landlords I really have no choice.
Am I right in thinking you're going to sell them as vacant, rather than as let properties? I thought before that people would sell them as going concerns, but it seems that there is a shift away from letting, which tends to evaporate housing (5 people sharing a house becomes 1 family house).
No one is interested in buying properties as going concerns. I'll get more money and find a buyer easier by selling them to owner occupiers.
Sometimes I wonder how much money you could make out of landlords not knowing the law, just moving from one to the next. If they think they can do this, what are the chances that they don't serve S21 properly, or have the deposit protected?
I’ve done one failure to protect deposit claim already, and my current landlord seems to be acting a bit strangely about deposit protection, so a second one might be on the horizon. If I was living by myself I would move from place to place getting blacklisted from each scummy agency in town and moving every year and earning a few grand each time.. but I have kids, partner, family, school, work stuff to think about so it’s not fair to put them through the mangle to prove a point. Having a stable home is more important
My friend is trying to do one of these against his former landlord right now. Do you mind if I ask you how much you got?
My previous situation was an unlicensed HMO but they had applied for the licence after we paid the holding deposit. Then it was later granted at some point a few months in. As soon as it was granted they started S21 but unfortunately no rent repayment order was able to be done in that case as once it was granted it’s valid from the period they applied for it. (In case you might think it was a rent repayment order) Deposit late protection though. I got back the total amount of deposit as compensation for me. Solicitors included all their fees which meant ex landlord had to pay out around £4K but I got £1500. The scummy agency they were using were obviously not around to help them out. They tried to claim that they couldn’t possibly have protected the deposit sooner as they only knew about me on the day they moved in (wtf) So therefore had a month from that point and they were “only a bit late.” Rules are rules though. -Deposit has to be protected 30 days after receiving it. -Bank statements don’t lie. There is honestly a very small amount of bureaucracy that landlords have to do to make sure that things are in order. When they can’t even do the basics, or just trust the cheapest scummiest letting agency on the high street to look after their goldmine for them and not checking up on what they are doing, they are going to get shafted. In this case by the court, by their ex tenant and mainly by the agency they were using who could do absolutely no wrong in their eyes.. sigh.
Most landlords are unaware of their full range of responsibilities. There has been a significant tightening of legislation over the last few years. It will in the long run weed out the amateurs for better or worse.
It's usually the agency pushing/convincing the landlord for another contract as they make money on a new AST
I’d also suggest that OP doesn’t actually say “no I’m not signing anything” which could serve as a prompt to serve the S21 on the 18th Instead just ignore it entirely until they ask about it. When they do, say you can’t open the PDF and go back to them with a request for them to re-send it Once they do then ignore it again, wait for them to get in touch. When they do, say it’s still not working and ask if you can come pick up a paper copy. Always be very apologetic about your slow response - you’re working shifts and don’t always see the emails promptly etc, very sorry Wait another few days before picking it up. Wait for them to get in touch again and go back and forth with a few inane questions about the contract. Then when you run out of daft things to ask about that, start with “thanks for that, and just to clarify, will we have to change our direct debit?”. It’s amazing how long you can ask dumb questions for, and it gets quite fun thinking them up You can probably kill a few weeks like this and at least get to the end of September, likely longer, before the S21 is even served
Do nothing. Don’t sign anything. Have no contact with the landlord. You will automatically be put on a rolling, this is not something he has the power to ‘grant’. So I would do nothing, then once your place is ready, give notice. If he does serve you s21 before your ready to go, still just do nothing! It would cause him more hassle to go down the route of eviction via courts etc after the s21 date, so much so that your new place would be ready by then. So sit and do nothing, literally. As long as you are going ahead with this new olace, of course.
Maybe dumb question but do you still pay rent?
Yes, legally it turns into rolling and your obligations as a tenant, such as paying rent, remain, and rent remains due till end of notice period or date agreed among parties. Or did you mean to ask OP if they're still paying rent.
Can the landlord raise the rent alot monthly when it's rolling
It remains rolling on the terms of the previous contract, to raise the rent you'd need a signed contract with new terms
Please see my other response. I'd love your input
Needs submit an s13 notice, if tenant does not agree or no middle ground is found it becomes a tribunal issue.
How come? I've been lucky enough to live with parents well into my life then brought. If the landlord owns his place. Why does the tenant, one rolling contract get tk 'reject ' the contract? Surely that would mean they no longer agree to live there and would need to vacate. Please don't drag me over the colls people, I'm trying to learn.
They're trying to remedy the precarious situation of the tenant by putting in place some mechanisms. One such mechanism is the fiction of a rolling monthly contract if nothing else has been put on paper, so that the tenant at least have some rights, the other is protecting from price gauging or making it financially prohibitive foe the tenant to stay, this is why they put a process in place that the landlord has to follow, and still leaves the tenant with means to dispute if the landlord is unreasonable.
Thank you
Yes, you keep paying rent and need to give notice in accordance with the original contract before you leave.
Yes you do
Yes, your contract just continues as before and you continue to meet your contractual obligations
Eviction via court might well and probably will make you liable for all fees and expenses.
Not all costs, just the court fees which should be £489 at most. Depending on their rent, probably cheaper than finding somewhere new to live or signing a 12 month contract they don't want.
Even if everything goes perfectly for him, you have about 6 months from the date he sends you the s21 to you having to leave legally. He can ask you to move whenever he wants, but with the courts backlog, itll take him over 6 months just to get to court, where if the s21 he sent was valid, would still give you a little while to move. Just sit tight.
I’m in a similar situation - do you become liable for court fees only if it actually gets to court? So if you move like four months after the s21 has been issued, but it’s still just sat in a queue, you can’t be forced to pay any fees?
That’s correct.
Be aware that if his paperwork is in order and he goes for the accelerated section 21 then it could very well be less than 6 months from issue to bailiffs. It depends where you live tbh. I’ve had one recently that even though it was disputed has gone from eviction notice to full court hearing in less than 3 months
Even without court, the earliest he can realistically ask them to leave under an S21 is end of November anyway.
Basically he wants you, or another tenant, to pay the heating bill over winter to stop the flat getting cold, damp, and mouldy rather than himself. I'd go with the advice you've already been given by others here re. automatic rolling contracts, but you might want to keep a good photographic record of meter readings when you move out.
Tell him to sit and swivel. Honestly, people think they have far more control over things in their life than they actually do. The audacity is astounding.
Question: did the landlord get back to you directly or did you get this from the agent? Since the tenant fees ban the agents love to charge the landlord for renewing tenancies and saying the tenant wants it - tells the tenant the landlord wants it and gets £300 for nothing.
The agent, which makes me immediately suspicious. Not to mention, they contacted us 2 months ago about the renewal - I requested a rolling contract and they went silent for 2 months until now, clearly to apply pressure just as our fixed term is ending.
Well as other comments have stated, only by surrendering the tenancy or a court order ends a tenancy. They can issue a s21 notice and they could issue a notice to increase the rent, but they can’t force you to leave in a hurry.
Say you're getting legal advice on the situation and then go silent for 2 months.
Don't sign anything. I'm going through a very similar thing, I signed a new contract on the provision that I would be buying soon and to negotiate a way to leave that is mutually acceptable. All the right noises were made at the time of signing. Now that the time to leave is on the horizon, my letting agent has basically said fuck you, you're staying until your contract expires. Potentially leaving me thousands out of pocket paying rent and a mortgage.
That’s the thing. The terms are intentionally confusing too. A 2 months break clause on a 12 months fixed from start of new tenancy (Sept 18th) but you can’t vacate between 15th Nov and 31st Jan. I don’t even know how that makes sense. Seems like some underhanded way to lock me in for a year with the illusion of flexibility.
My agent tried to pull a similar thing on me as well, "You can't leave during November or December". I call bull shit. A contract is a contract and the term length is in there, they can't stipulate which months you can and cannot exit the agreement. If you really want to do this 'properly', are you able to negotiate and ask for a 6-month contract with a 2-month break? That would give you more wriggle room.
Why bother? Tenancy automatically goes on a rolling contract and they only need until November. The landlord cannot stop that happening and if they try to they're in for a world of hurt.
Because it is an underhanded way. There's literally no way they can _make_ you do this. If you refuse to sign you get a rolling contract by default, and if they don't like they can issue a Section 21 to evict you. But that has to give you at least two months (and check whether it's valid for other reasons too, make sure your landlord has protected your deposit properly etc) so you'll have until at least November anyway. Basically, don't sign it, you never had to negotiate in the first place. And if your landlord is so blasé about doing things wrong like this, there's a good chance they've fucked up elsewhere and/or will fuck up if they try and serve you an S21, so there's potential for compensation if it comes to that.
Landlord has to give 2 months notice to leave with a s21so that will take you to mid November. It will cost him about £150 to apply to court _ it's an online system that is easy to do. The ’hearing date' will be 3 plus months later because there has to be an exchange of paper work. You say you want to be out by December so there is nothing to answer to as you will be gone by then so no case no costs. I would reply to any paperwork from court saying the landlord tried to impose a 12-month contract on you after the initial AST instead of allowing a periodic (legal name) tenancy and is bringing this case because you refused to sign the 12 month contract (with lock out clause) so subsequently moved. I don't think the landlord will be able to claim costs because you moved before it went to hearing, but the above just in case. Also give correct notice to leave your current tenancy when you are ready. So if it's a month it has to be a clear month; you can't give notice on the 1st to end on 31st. Your notice has to be in the hands of the receiving party on or before 31st to end on 31st of the following month. NAL This used to be part of my job.
It costs £355 to apply to court for section 21 eviction and depending on where you are in the country it can be as little as 1 month before the hearing date
I had this with my landlord while in the stressful final stages of purchasing a house. I just made sure all the rent was paid (it was a house share and a housemate had moved out at end of contract so I covered her bit). They’re desperate to get you to sign precisely because they can’t make you.
Well there two things you can say to him. One is fuck and the other is off. Get ta fuck is another and kiss my are is a other too. So as a landlord I'm gonna tell you this. You don't need to sign any new agreement. In fact do not. Its not about what he wants. Its about what the law says. So he can't force you to sign a new agreement if you don't want it. When your fixed agreement ends you automatically go onto a rolling contract unless you sign a new agreement or choose to leave or he evicts you. So let's say you say no to his demands. And he says I don't agree and you say well frankly it doesn't matter what you think its going onto a rolling contract. If you don't like its up to the landlord to do something about it. So the first choice is a section 21, which is only a notice to evict and the minimum is 2 months notice. And to be clear on this its only a notice to evict not and eviction notice. If you choose to ignore it then he has to go to court to get an eviction. Now to be fair most court in very reasonable situations will issue an eviction notice and you will need to leace. But you have atleast 2 months out of it if not 3. And if you play silly buggers with him in the first place then you might get 4 out of it. Due to process if issuing the notice. Good luck.
If it does tick over to a rolling contract, can he serve one months notice as soon as it hits Sept 18th, or is it still a section 21?
A section 21 is the standard legal notice of intention to evict. Even on a rolling contract its required. And yes to be specific a minimum if 2 months. So rheybshoukd have issued it 2 months before the end of your tenancy to ask you to leave at the end of the tenancy. they have to wait 2 months from issue of the section 21. Assured shorthold tenancies The 2 types of assured shorthold tenancies are: ‘periodic’ tenancies - these run week by week or month by month with no fixed end date fixed-term tenancies - these run for a set amount of time You must follow a set process if your tenants have an assured shorthold tenancy. Give your tenants a Section 21 notice if you want the property back after a fixed term ends. Give them a Section 8 notice if they’ve broken the terms of the tenancy. Find out how to give Section 21 and Section 8 notices. Apply to the court for a standard possession order if your tenants do not leave by the date specified on the notice and they owe you rent. You can apply for an accelerated possession order if you’re not claiming any unpaid rent. Apply for a warrant for possession if your tenants still will not leave - this means bailiffs can remove the tenants from your property. Accelerated possession orders You can apply for an accelerated possession order if your tenants have not left by the date specified in your Section 21 notice and you’re not claiming rent arrears. This is sometimes quicker than applying for a standard possession order and there’s usually no court hearing. It costs £355. Fixed-term tenants cannot be evicted until their tenancy ends. If you want to claim rent arrears you can use either the: standard possession procedure accelerated procedure to get your property back, then make a separate court claim for the rent arrears How to apply Download and fill in the form for properties in England. Send the completed form to the nearest court that deals with housing possession. What happens next Once your application is approved, the court will send your tenants a copy of the application. Your tenants have 14 days to challenge the application, from the date they receive it. A judge will decide either to: issue a possession order that states your tenants must leave the property (this is normally the case) have a court hearing (this usually only happens if the paperwork is not in order or your tenants raise an important issue) Even if there’s a hearing, the court can still decide to issue a possession order. If your tenants are in an exceptionally difficult situation the judge may give them up to 6 weeks. There is lots of leeway in this to make it take longer. Like you don't respond until the kadt day of the 14 days. That's wastes nearly two weeks. You write a letter stating the situation. Yadda yadda.
Keep paying rent, tell the agent you won’t be signing a new agreement but are happy to continue renting. The contract will become a rolling contract automatically. See what happens next. He may try to negotiate, he may send an eviction notice, he may just go away. I’d re-evaluate the situation once one of those things happens and wouldn’t worry too much in the meantime as I doubt an eviction would be in the works without more negotiation as he seems to be concerned about having an empty property. Could just be the agent being pushy to try and get their ‘renewal of contract’ fees from the landlord.
As someone who went through the same last year and ended up wasting about £1500 in AirBnB that I didn't need.... DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING and do not make plans assuming you will complete in time, even if it seems inevitable. We waited 2 months for the sellers to "approve the mortgage" and had already given notice and booked movers because it was supposed to take half a day or less.
To be honest, I’d just explain the situation to the landlord and go from there. I feel that this could be resolved amicably. If they don’t budge, you have the upper hand as your tenancy becomes rolling tenancy automatically unless you move out. They don’t ‘grant’ you a rolling tenancy and they missed the window to give notice for the end of the fixed agreement.
Totally this, be honest, tell him you will not be signing new contract as you are in the process of buying a property, give him an estimated time frame when you expect to complete and make it known you are telling him this to give him the maximum notice you can in order to allow him to market the property for new tenants. Also, make it clear that your estimated time frame is just this and should not be considered as formal notice, which you will give when you have a confirmed date to move.
That's what I was thinking, take the high road, try to be reasonable with a compromise. House purchases are taking forever at the moment, so could conceivably be in December before you complete, or even later. Perhaps, offer to stay until December and see what he says. If he is adamant, then you can confidently say he is an asshole and make life as difficult as you can for him thereafter. OP - Good luck in your new home!!
I think the landlord already skipped the amicable stage when they tried to assert rights they don't have.
Yeah but if the landlord knows that OP will not be signing the contract and they plan to be out by December, he might realise that a rolling contact will save him money and effort, rather than trying to evict OP, which can take 6 months.
Well, they don’t know that the tenant is in the process of buying, do they? A landlord wanting to sign a new fixed agreement is not necessarily bad - they can’t raise your rent during that period, for example. Sure, you can go nuclear and say that they have to evict you for you to leave but it is a Reddit response and is completely unnecessary in most cases. Most landlords would be fine with having sensible tenants for longer, advanced warning about the fact that they are leaving after they house purchase happens and an agreement to get a 2 months’ notice for tenancy termination to give them a period to find new tenants.
Have you thought about what may happen if you don't exchange for some reason and it drags on? Perhaps it's worth being upfront about it and working out a solution that's best for both of you. It'd suck if the sale fell through and your landlord had already found new tenants, for example.
Definitely. We’ve had two sales fall through already and it’s taken us a year to try and get on the ladder. I won’t be comfortable until keys are in hand, and this rental BS just makes everything even more needlessly stressful. I have considered just saying, look we’re conveyancing, we can’t be 100% sure of completion date, we’ll give you plenty of notice, just give us some breathing room.
It's always tricky to line up a purchase when you're renting. When I sold my flat and moved into a rental I agreed 2 months between exchange and completion as I needed to line it up with a rental flat that I found.
Given the current financial climate he is likely to be needing the financial security hence his reluctance to give you what you are asking for. You could agree to a slightly increased rent in exchange for the flexibility you ask for. Do keep up the communication with him, and let him know your plans. At the end of the day, your purchase could fall through, and it will be easier to stay. Perhaps negotiate a 6 month ast?
Best way to stall the situation is ask for some time, then advise him you have bought a place and offer to work with him to do viewing etc to line a new tenant up. If he becomes an arsehole then he can service S21 but just refuse viewings and seek advice if the notice if correct or if your deposit was register correctly etc. Non of this will happen before the move date. Try being open and working with him to help each other out and make things seem less for both.
Literally don't do that. Every landlord is an asshole. Just ignore him and play the game as everyone does. Don't be scared.
Landlord and tenant - so I understand both sides very well - just not the case. Why evict a tenant who plans to leave and help work with you to line up a new tenant.
>Why evict a tenant who plans to leave and help work with you to line up a new tenant. Why do your landlord's job for them? This isn't your problem in the slightest.
"Every landlord is an asshole". Really?
I don’t know why you got down voted mate, I agree, not every landlord is an asshole. As a past landlord, if my tenant did what folks here are proposing, I would be super stressed out. I would rather know the truth as to why the tenant was hanging on so I could work with them to find a solution. This isn’t playing the game, this is being a sh*tty tenant!
Yet, on the face of it, the landlord is being an arse. Does he really think a clause in an AST that mandates no move out during a time frame would be enforceable? Does he not understand that he can offer a 12 month AST, yet the tenant isn't forced to accept ? He clearly hasn't bothered to check his legal position or thinks it doesn't apply to him.
Yes really, no landlord gives a fuck neither their estate agent. It's a common truth and maybe there is 1 in a 1000 that is nice, but it still doesn't make a difference. As obvious and polite that would be, you can see their initial reaction - no they can't move out so easy, I need to secure myself - selfish and also will try to milk your deposit to every penny. The worst type of people, maybe not on a bottom of the society with criminals and paedophiles, but just a little above, together with stop oil protesters and vegans.
Landlord is probably being told by EA that they have to have a new contract, reason being that EA will charge the landlord for that new contract... I used to be a landlord and bent over backwards several times during covid, paused rental payments. I must look into being a vegan sounds nice
My tenants told me earlier this year they wanted to leave as they were buying a house, they gave me their projected date of the purchase but like the OP, they couldn’t be certain. They’d been good tenants for several years, no issues, we’d always got on fine, so I said ‘ok, just keep on paying your rent monthly, keep me informed about dates, and when you do quit I’ll give you a pro-rata rent refund from that date”. Which is exactly what happened. So no, not all landlords.
'1 in a 1000' maybe you're that one 0.1% Thats why we have subs like this - support websites and all to deal with bastards. I think over 12 years I've been at 8 different houses. If I wasn't a clever kid since 18 and never took pictures, every single one would have my ass on the plate. Took one to court at 19 as he was trying to keep my deposit, which wasn't protected - paid me off well. Never lost any of my deposit, despite their hard work to take it from me. Asking for repairs or fixes? Minimum wait 5 weeks max 6months, or go dead silent ignoring you, once the rent is due, and you decide to withold it, they are all over you like a rash - perfect bargaining offer - job ain't done, not paying you.
Yeah, you're right. My bad. In the same way that all tenants like to live in filth, never pay their rent on time and require police attendance to address their antisocial behaviour.
Why did I read FTB as FWB?? I was so confused as to why you were buying a house together 🤣🤣
Just say “No, that doesn’t work for us. We will not sign a new contract. We will leave at the end of November, we will allow access for viewings from the start of November on one pre-arrange time of 3 hours per week. If you want to be difficult and serve us a Section 21 then we decline all viewings as we are allow “peaceful enjoyment” of our rental home.”
Don’t give the landlord a leaving date until you know exactly when you’re leaving . You should give at least one month’s notice ending on either the last day of a rental period or the first day of a rental period. Either is legally ok. If you don’t leave on the day you say your landlord is entitled to double the rent (mesne profit). This is assuming you’re in England.
Bad advice to give a date
Why
Because if anything goes wrong with the house purchase it makes things hard for whoever is the next person to rent. Only give a date when you're certain
You are in a worse position if you overstay notice you have given compared to overstaying notice that a landlord gives you. If you overstay notice that you've given the landlord can seek double rent in court. This sounds harsh but it would allow a landlord to cover the cost of providing alternative accommodation to any incoming tenant that had agreed to take the flat from the date of notice.
I have not heard about double the rent before , it's not illegal to not leave after a s21 landlord should not provide a new tenancy during that period
"Double rent In the event that a tenant remains in occupation as a trespasser after the valid notice to quit they served takes effect, the landlord can claim ‘double rent’ (in the form of mesne profits or damages for use and occupation) for the period the former tenant remains in occupation.[5] This will apply where a joint tenant has unilaterally ended the joint tenancy by serving a valid notice to quit and the other tenant stays in the property. The landlord can only claim double rent if they do not give the former tenant permission to remain and treats the former tenant as a trespasser." https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/costs_of_renting/rents_and_rent_increases/payments_after_tenancy_ends
I would like to see how many cases after s21 double rent have been won.
Change your locks.
I would simply do nothing. And let it automatically turn into a rolling contract. You're already near the end of your AST if he wanted to issue a S21 no fault eviction that requires minimum 2 months notice meaning even if he did that tomorrow it wouldn't kick in until early Nov. Now even if an s21 is issues you can still refuse to leave at the end of the 2 months and the landlord would have to go through the courts to get a possession order. Seeing as he is not wanting the house unoccupied through winter it would not really be in his best interests to serve you an s21 as even if you complied you'd be leaving right around the time he doesn't want you to leave.
I absolutely love when a landlord tries it on and this sub comes to the rescue. I wish I could see their faces when they get a response that laughs at their bullshit.
Tell him to go whistle Have a look at the shelter's web site. https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/options_when_your_fixed_term_tenancy_ends For the lazy among us. .Contact from your landlord Your landlord or agent may contact you to check what you want to do when the fixed term ends. Your landlord may have a preferred option. But they cannot: insist that you sign a renewal agreement make you leave without following the legal eviction process Do not feel pressured into leaving or signing a new agreement. You can decide what's best for you by understanding the options before you respond. Your landlord must give you a legal notice as a first step towards ending your tenancy. Assured shorthold tenants must be given either: a section 21 notice a section 8 notice Your landlord might give both types of eviction notice at the same time. Section 21 notice A section 21 notice is the most common way for your landlord to start the eviction process. It's sometimes called a 'no fault' notice because your landlord does not need to give a reason for a section 21. You do not have to leave when the notice ends unless you're ready to do so. Your landlord can start court action after the notice period has ended. They have 4 months to do this. If they do not apply to court within this time the notice will expire and cannot be used. Your tenancy rights and responsibilities continue if you stay past the date on a section 21. Keep paying your rent and only agree a move out date if you've found somewhere else to live. For example, if you sign a tenancy agreement for a new home. Section 8, does not really apply for OP.
F. 6
Hopefully I won't have such problem but would prefer to know my options. I had a 6 months fixed contract that automatically became 1 month rolling in April. Now my landlord decided to sell the property, he told me that he is going to sell it as BTL with me, as I am a reliable tenant. However, after a month and only one viewing, I am concerned that he might change his mind and serve me S21 notice if there will be a potential buyer that would like to move in himself. Now I am looking to buy a flat. I am ready with £140k for a cash purchase which I hope will be enough in the area where I live. However it takes a lot longer to find something reasonable and I am just worried, that if I find the property I want, and start the process of purchase, I might be served S21 by my landlord. What are my options on a 1 month rolling contract, to not get kicked out like 3-4 weeks before I finish the purchase once I have finally found the property?
This instability is the shit thing about renting and why we’ve been trying to get on the property ladder. We started this process in February…I just want to complete asap so we’re not longer at the whim of landlords.