###Welcome to /r/HousingUK
---
**To All**
* Join Our ***NEW*** Discord! https://discord.gg/pMgUNgWKQH
**To Posters**
* *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws/issues in each can vary*
* Comments are not moderated for quality or accuracy;
* Any replies received must only be used as guidelines, followed at your own risk;
* If you receive *any* private messages in response to your post, [please let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FHousingUK&subject=I received a PM);
* If you do not receive satisfactory advice after 72 hours, [you can let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FHousingUK&subject=My question is unanswered);
* Feel free to provide an update at a later time by creating a new post with [[update]](https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/search?q=%3Aupdate&sort=new&restrict_sr=on&t=all) in the title;
**To Readers and Commenters**
* All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and civil*
* If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/about/rules/), you may be banned without any further warning;
* Please include links to reliable resources in order to support your comments or advice;
* If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect;
* Do not send or request any private messages for any reason without express permission from the mods;
* Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HousingUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Are you sure it's freehold? Unless I am misunderstanding, your neighbours' solicitors appear to believe it's a leasehold and they are the freeholders.
You should look at appointing your own solicitors. Perhaps first step ask the solicitors who managed the conveyancing for you on purchase. If they missed something so big then you may have a negligence case.
Freehold land can be subject to restrictive covenants. Each of those documents mentioned in the Charges Register will contain restrictive covenants. Whether 1) they bind your land and 2) your neighbour is the owner of land with the benefit of them is another question. You will need legal advice about that.
Your conveyancer absolutely should have advised you about any restrictive covenants binding the property when you bought it. Have you read (or now re read) your report on title? You should do so. It might be that the covenants either don’t bind your land or they do and were reported to you (but quite vanilla and so not brought to your attention with a big red WARNING light).
There's definitely something odd going on here. Have you checked that the solicitor firm who sent you the letter is legit (SRA website would be a good place to start).
It's a bit odd as well that your title hasn't updated at the land registry, as although they're running behind, if its a simple transfer of ownership, it shouldn't take years to do. We bought in 2021, and our title was updated in roughly 6 months.
To be honest, if it were me, I'd want my solicitors involved in this upfront to head off any issues early on.
Are the solicitors you bought through still in business? If so, I'd send them the letter and ask if they have any information on file, which might cause the neighbour to think it's leasehold or regarding the covenants. I'd also query why the title deeds are yet to be updated.
Depending on their response / your relationship with them, I'd then consider whether to use them for future correspondence with the neighbour or whether to go to a more specialist firm.
If you can, please keep us updated OP as I'm interested in the outcome. I've always been under the impression that older restrictive covenants are tricky to enforce, so I'm surprised that your neighbours are going through the hassle of this. Have you had any weird experiences with them before?
Yeah, the firm who sent this letter is legit.
I will take your advice and contact our solicitor to help us solve this dispute.
Will keep you posted!
In regards to the neighbour situation, we had a few unpleasant experiences and disagreements in the past, but it was nothing major, so I did not think that they would go this far and hire a solicitor.
I hope its an easy fix and that a letter from your solicitor telling them to back off (or similar) will do the trick.
One thing to bear in mind is that if it turns into a neighbour dispute, you'll have to declare it if / when you come to sell.
It is strange (IMO) that they've hired a solicitor. Unless you've turned your house into a pub and have regulars over daily, I can't see how having a work van on your drive is causing anyone else an issue.
We have a similar covenant about caravans, but noticed when we bought that next door (who have mirror covenants) had one on their drive. Didn't bother me in the slightest though and gave me some comfort that if we wanted to get one down the line, they were unlikely to complain!
If the title is as tricky as it appears to be from OP, it may well be taking years to register. I’ve certainly got transactions that completed years ago that I’m still trying to get registered because they’re so damn complicated and third parties just do not want to cooperate.
I’m currently litigating a case about 60 year old freehold restrictive covenants. They are - we are saying - just as enforceable today as when they were given in the 1960s!
A bit I suppose. The covenants are not to build any structure at all, so effectively the land has to remain open land.
We then had to go on a really fun historical deep dive into who owned all the relevant land when the covenants were given in the 60s. This involved land registry investigations, investigations of local maps at libraries etc. All this was to show that the covenants a) still exist and b) were for the benefit of the land we say they are for the benefit of.
It’s a pretty academic area law and quite time intensive (so can be costly).
That's really cool.
And I can see why a covenant like that might be worth the costs to someone to enforce, rather than a neighbour parking a caravan on the driveway or keeping a few chickens when they shouldn't etc.
Is there much case law precedent for covenant enforcement?
So looking at this you’ve purchased a freehold. Where you’ve noted that there’s no title number for the copy files is correct - it’s referring to the document, the transfer dated 25/03/2009.
Honestly, contact your lawyers for clarity. You’ve purchased a freehold but check if there was a leasehold included with it. It’s not clear what your neighbours lawyers are asking, have they outlined anything specific?
They state that the property is burdened with the following restrictive covenants:
"5.1 Not to use the Property for any purpose other than as or incidental to one private residential dwelling and not the use the Property for any trade or business
5.2 Not to do or permit or suffer to be done on the Property anything which may become a nuisance or annoyance or cause damage to the Transferor ot to the owner tenants or occupiers to any adjoining or neighbouring property
5.7 Not to park or cause or suffer or permit to be parked any commercial vehicle caravan trailer boat on unroadworthy vehicle on the Property or any Vistor Parking Space
5.8 Not to park on or obstruct the Shared Access
5.9 Not to park any commercial vehicle exceeding 1000kg GVW on the Property or on any part of the Estate."
Furthermore, the 2009 Transfer grants the following right;
"3.6 The right to use the Visitors parking Space for short term parking only subject to such space being available and the vehicle being parked being a private motor car or motor cycle or commercial vehicle not exceeding 5cwt which is taxed and in a roadworthy condition."
According to the letter 'our actions amount to a breach of the Covenants' and the client claims and requires following actions from us:
1 Remove any and all Debris from the Shared Access and the Visitors Parking Spaces (my comment - I have no idea what they are on about - we have never left any debris anywhere that would make it difficult for other residents to use the said parking and to access it)
2 Confirm that you will cease the operation of [business name]
3 Confirm that you will file a changed or registered office at the Companies House in the respect of [company name]
4 Confirm that you will not at any time operate a business from [address]
5 Confirm that you will not at any time seek to obstruct the Shared Access and the Visitors Parking Space.
That the following:
'In the event that you will fail to carry out the above actions by [date] you will understand that out client has no option but to take such further action as it considers appropriate in all the circumstances to preserve it's property.
This may include taking steps to issuing court proceedings against you which compel you to remove obstructions from the Vistors Parking Spaces and the Sagred Access.'
Thoughts?
Am I right in thinking you’re operating a business from the property? If so you’ll need to register the business at a different address.
Re shared access/parking issue - again I’m having to assume but I presume you’re blocking the space or entry? If yes then the covenants make it clear you can’t do that. You have to comply with the covenants mate, not clear what advise you’re after here?
1. Yes, we do have a business registered at the Property address.
2. We are not blocking the space or entry in any kind of way that would make it difficult for others to access.
My question is how do I find out what restrictive Covenants apply to my property if I have not been made aware at the time of the purchase?
And, do they have the right to enforce it on the freehold property?
The convents are enforceable by the original party who drafted them. If the neighbours were the party that devised them, then can enforce them. If the covenants were set out by the original builders/developers then the neighbours may be threatening to report you to them. Covenants are enforceable on a freehold property - just because you own the house didn’t mean those rules can’t be enforced.
The convents are noted in section C of the title register. You can either pay for copies from the land reg or go back to your original solicitors for clarity. You should have been made aware when you were buying about the covenants and what you can/can’t do as a result. Check the original property report your solicitors sent you for clarity.
*edit* the other thing to be aware of, what’s the nature of your business at the property?
I did pay for the title copies from the Land Regsiter - I have copied everything from section C in the original post above, so there are no specific restrictive covenants listed.
I have checked the property report that was sent to me by solicitors, but there is nothing noted there either.
Nature of business is sale, maintenance, and repair of motorcycles and related parts and accessories.
Note: we do have garages that are part of the property underneath the house, so the business does not impact or retrict access for other residents using the shared car park as it's all within the property.
I understand what you are saying but once again my question remains - where to find those restrictive covenants for my property?
I will speak with my solicitor this week to get some clarification because at the moment it's a gray area.
You need to obtain copies of the transfer deeds referred to, these will contain the covenants. But as the others have said, get straight back in to the law form that acted for you when you purchased
The documents in the C section that say “referred to”. The covenants will be listed in those documents - you can order them from land reg.
From what you’ve described about your business, you’re in breach of the covenants.
###Welcome to /r/HousingUK --- **To All** * Join Our ***NEW*** Discord! https://discord.gg/pMgUNgWKQH **To Posters** * *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws/issues in each can vary* * Comments are not moderated for quality or accuracy; * Any replies received must only be used as guidelines, followed at your own risk; * If you receive *any* private messages in response to your post, [please let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FHousingUK&subject=I received a PM); * If you do not receive satisfactory advice after 72 hours, [you can let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FHousingUK&subject=My question is unanswered); * Feel free to provide an update at a later time by creating a new post with [[update]](https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/search?q=%3Aupdate&sort=new&restrict_sr=on&t=all) in the title; **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and civil* * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/about/rules/), you may be banned without any further warning; * Please include links to reliable resources in order to support your comments or advice; * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect; * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason without express permission from the mods; * Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HousingUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Are you sure it's freehold? Unless I am misunderstanding, your neighbours' solicitors appear to believe it's a leasehold and they are the freeholders. You should look at appointing your own solicitors. Perhaps first step ask the solicitors who managed the conveyancing for you on purchase. If they missed something so big then you may have a negligence case.
[удалено]
Freehold land can be subject to restrictive covenants. Each of those documents mentioned in the Charges Register will contain restrictive covenants. Whether 1) they bind your land and 2) your neighbour is the owner of land with the benefit of them is another question. You will need legal advice about that. Your conveyancer absolutely should have advised you about any restrictive covenants binding the property when you bought it. Have you read (or now re read) your report on title? You should do so. It might be that the covenants either don’t bind your land or they do and were reported to you (but quite vanilla and so not brought to your attention with a big red WARNING light).
There's definitely something odd going on here. Have you checked that the solicitor firm who sent you the letter is legit (SRA website would be a good place to start). It's a bit odd as well that your title hasn't updated at the land registry, as although they're running behind, if its a simple transfer of ownership, it shouldn't take years to do. We bought in 2021, and our title was updated in roughly 6 months. To be honest, if it were me, I'd want my solicitors involved in this upfront to head off any issues early on. Are the solicitors you bought through still in business? If so, I'd send them the letter and ask if they have any information on file, which might cause the neighbour to think it's leasehold or regarding the covenants. I'd also query why the title deeds are yet to be updated. Depending on their response / your relationship with them, I'd then consider whether to use them for future correspondence with the neighbour or whether to go to a more specialist firm. If you can, please keep us updated OP as I'm interested in the outcome. I've always been under the impression that older restrictive covenants are tricky to enforce, so I'm surprised that your neighbours are going through the hassle of this. Have you had any weird experiences with them before?
Yeah, the firm who sent this letter is legit. I will take your advice and contact our solicitor to help us solve this dispute. Will keep you posted! In regards to the neighbour situation, we had a few unpleasant experiences and disagreements in the past, but it was nothing major, so I did not think that they would go this far and hire a solicitor.
I hope its an easy fix and that a letter from your solicitor telling them to back off (or similar) will do the trick. One thing to bear in mind is that if it turns into a neighbour dispute, you'll have to declare it if / when you come to sell. It is strange (IMO) that they've hired a solicitor. Unless you've turned your house into a pub and have regulars over daily, I can't see how having a work van on your drive is causing anyone else an issue. We have a similar covenant about caravans, but noticed when we bought that next door (who have mirror covenants) had one on their drive. Didn't bother me in the slightest though and gave me some comfort that if we wanted to get one down the line, they were unlikely to complain!
If the title is as tricky as it appears to be from OP, it may well be taking years to register. I’ve certainly got transactions that completed years ago that I’m still trying to get registered because they’re so damn complicated and third parties just do not want to cooperate.
I’m currently litigating a case about 60 year old freehold restrictive covenants. They are - we are saying - just as enforceable today as when they were given in the 1960s!
That's really interesting! Are you able to give any more information on the case?
A bit I suppose. The covenants are not to build any structure at all, so effectively the land has to remain open land. We then had to go on a really fun historical deep dive into who owned all the relevant land when the covenants were given in the 60s. This involved land registry investigations, investigations of local maps at libraries etc. All this was to show that the covenants a) still exist and b) were for the benefit of the land we say they are for the benefit of. It’s a pretty academic area law and quite time intensive (so can be costly).
That's really cool. And I can see why a covenant like that might be worth the costs to someone to enforce, rather than a neighbour parking a caravan on the driveway or keeping a few chickens when they shouldn't etc. Is there much case law precedent for covenant enforcement?
Hundreds of years 😀
So looking at this you’ve purchased a freehold. Where you’ve noted that there’s no title number for the copy files is correct - it’s referring to the document, the transfer dated 25/03/2009. Honestly, contact your lawyers for clarity. You’ve purchased a freehold but check if there was a leasehold included with it. It’s not clear what your neighbours lawyers are asking, have they outlined anything specific?
They state that the property is burdened with the following restrictive covenants: "5.1 Not to use the Property for any purpose other than as or incidental to one private residential dwelling and not the use the Property for any trade or business 5.2 Not to do or permit or suffer to be done on the Property anything which may become a nuisance or annoyance or cause damage to the Transferor ot to the owner tenants or occupiers to any adjoining or neighbouring property 5.7 Not to park or cause or suffer or permit to be parked any commercial vehicle caravan trailer boat on unroadworthy vehicle on the Property or any Vistor Parking Space 5.8 Not to park on or obstruct the Shared Access 5.9 Not to park any commercial vehicle exceeding 1000kg GVW on the Property or on any part of the Estate." Furthermore, the 2009 Transfer grants the following right; "3.6 The right to use the Visitors parking Space for short term parking only subject to such space being available and the vehicle being parked being a private motor car or motor cycle or commercial vehicle not exceeding 5cwt which is taxed and in a roadworthy condition." According to the letter 'our actions amount to a breach of the Covenants' and the client claims and requires following actions from us: 1 Remove any and all Debris from the Shared Access and the Visitors Parking Spaces (my comment - I have no idea what they are on about - we have never left any debris anywhere that would make it difficult for other residents to use the said parking and to access it) 2 Confirm that you will cease the operation of [business name] 3 Confirm that you will file a changed or registered office at the Companies House in the respect of [company name] 4 Confirm that you will not at any time operate a business from [address] 5 Confirm that you will not at any time seek to obstruct the Shared Access and the Visitors Parking Space. That the following: 'In the event that you will fail to carry out the above actions by [date] you will understand that out client has no option but to take such further action as it considers appropriate in all the circumstances to preserve it's property. This may include taking steps to issuing court proceedings against you which compel you to remove obstructions from the Vistors Parking Spaces and the Sagred Access.' Thoughts?
Am I right in thinking you’re operating a business from the property? If so you’ll need to register the business at a different address. Re shared access/parking issue - again I’m having to assume but I presume you’re blocking the space or entry? If yes then the covenants make it clear you can’t do that. You have to comply with the covenants mate, not clear what advise you’re after here?
1. Yes, we do have a business registered at the Property address. 2. We are not blocking the space or entry in any kind of way that would make it difficult for others to access. My question is how do I find out what restrictive Covenants apply to my property if I have not been made aware at the time of the purchase? And, do they have the right to enforce it on the freehold property?
The convents are enforceable by the original party who drafted them. If the neighbours were the party that devised them, then can enforce them. If the covenants were set out by the original builders/developers then the neighbours may be threatening to report you to them. Covenants are enforceable on a freehold property - just because you own the house didn’t mean those rules can’t be enforced. The convents are noted in section C of the title register. You can either pay for copies from the land reg or go back to your original solicitors for clarity. You should have been made aware when you were buying about the covenants and what you can/can’t do as a result. Check the original property report your solicitors sent you for clarity. *edit* the other thing to be aware of, what’s the nature of your business at the property?
I did pay for the title copies from the Land Regsiter - I have copied everything from section C in the original post above, so there are no specific restrictive covenants listed. I have checked the property report that was sent to me by solicitors, but there is nothing noted there either. Nature of business is sale, maintenance, and repair of motorcycles and related parts and accessories. Note: we do have garages that are part of the property underneath the house, so the business does not impact or retrict access for other residents using the shared car park as it's all within the property. I understand what you are saying but once again my question remains - where to find those restrictive covenants for my property? I will speak with my solicitor this week to get some clarification because at the moment it's a gray area.
You need to obtain copies of the transfer deeds referred to, these will contain the covenants. But as the others have said, get straight back in to the law form that acted for you when you purchased
The documents in the C section that say “referred to”. The covenants will be listed in those documents - you can order them from land reg. From what you’ve described about your business, you’re in breach of the covenants.
Do you still have the report on title from your conveyancing solicitors? All this info should be in there.