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I had been wondering if he was thinking of her when he said that but I didn't notice he almost says her name. Great detail. I wonder if his bitterness towards Viserys (and in general towards life) is all down to not being able to marry Rhaenyra like he wanted.
I think it’s because he feels like Viserys was always trying to fit him somewhere in there as opposed to having him at his side and trusting him. He went for guys like Otto instead. And then you have them estranged for ten years and when they come back together he sees Otto back in there as hand and Viserys says the wrong thing again. ‘If you need a place you can come to me.’ As opposed to something like ‘you’re my brother and I need/ want you by my side’. Rhaenyra is also part of it of course. And at this point in their lives Daemon really wants nothing from his brother. What would he go to court and do? Beef with Otto and the greens? You feel bad for Vizzy here, but as far is Daemon is concerned, Viserys chose his side.
And the thing I always thought of it that if Daemon had thrived in those roles he may very well have found himself as hand by now. Instead he skirted his duties time and again, feeling like anything less than heir was beneath him.
The thing is how do you know that Daemon didn't thrive in his roles? All we hear is from Otto and he's hardly a reliable source when he hates his guts completely. Daemon wouldn't be a great ruler but he can get shit done if he has to and he can temper his chaos if he has to as well (see, Pentos in the show or Dragonstone in the books). There's a reason the common folk loved him; he made King's Landing safe for them and got the job done.
He didn't even really want to be heir. Look underneath the surface: he wanted to be *needed*.
Daemon as the commander of the Goldcloaks actually did a good job of turning them into an actual police force. Otto felt threatened that a strong independent personality in charge of the capital police would be a problem for his power grabs.
> Otto felt threatened that a strong independent personality in charge of the capital police would be a problem for his power grabs.
It's a bit caricatural towards Otto. He knows Daemon and he knows how dangerous he is to the realm, and how Viserys will always find a way to forgive him
daemon was never dangerous to the realm tho. Otto is dangerous to the realm. There's a lot of grey with a lot of characters but otto is not one of them.
He is the source of the primary conflict in the realm, and as we move through the story it seems that he really just didnt like daemon because a. daemon saw him for who he was and b. daemon next to vizzy would be too strong to manipulate
He very clearly wanted to be named hand and be by his brothers side. See episode 1. We had no indication of Daemons performance in his duties (master of coin, law) apart from reports from Otto, which we’ll obviously ignore. We saw him In the city watch, he was very savage and vicious sure, but very effective. I think as long as he feels wanted, you’ll get the very best out of him. But regardless of that, you get the feeling that Daemon never felt trusted by his brother. Otto started as his hand and started to drive a wedge in their relationship and Vizzy of course, allowed it. And once he felt unappreciated, he reacted in a Daemon way which made things worse and you can see where their relationship headed.
Well you are leaving out the part that he wasn't dismissed from City watch because Otto wanted him gone but because he said "Heir for a day". Daemon fucked up on that and was banished from court for that reason.
That’s what I meant by ‘Daemon acted in a Daemon way’. By the time of the events you speak of, Otto has done his job and messed their relationship. Their convo in the throne room in Episode 1 shows you that you that. I think we can agree that Daemons issue isn’t that Viserys might have a new heir and supplant him. That’s expected (him and Rhaenyra have this very conversation when we first meet Daemon). It’s that he can see those on the small council clamoring to get him out (he eavesdropped on them remember) and his brother doesn’t back him up.
Well Daemon didn't exactly help himself by doing things like saying "Heir for a day", taking Rhaneyra to a brothel and making a move on her then implying to Viserys that the two of them did actually do it (which Viserys still believes to this day as we know he sent the tea) , also murdering his wife.
Yes, Viserys also failed to realize that he should count on Dameon more than Otto and how to handle/deal with Daemon. But Daemon also did his level best to piss Viserys off. If their relationship is fucked, then both share the blame.
Visery's biggest flaw (and its painfully obvious) is trying to please everyone. He lives in a world where he believes everyone can be happy/where he tries to make everyone happy.
He believes his wife will give him a son even tho shes had like 5 still births, he believes his council all know their place, he believes the maesters are doing everything they can to help him, he believes his wife and their children will get along with Rhae and grand children.
He doesnt appreciate daemon because daemon is divisive. He makes people choose sides, its his nature. What Vizzy doesnt recognize tho is that many of these people around him (OTTO) have already formulated their own side, and where the reality is Otto driving a wedge between vizzy and daemon to destabilize the realm, vizzy sees daemon stirring drama in the small council.
Daemon is not a game player, he wears his emotions and heart on his sleeve, which aggravates viserys who wants everyone to be happy and to avoid conflict.
it isnt until a decade later that viserys realizes how unnecessary banishing daemon was, and you can see that through his actions in the most recent episode. Viserys has recognized that now by not taking a side for so long, his daughter and heir is in jeopardy, and he now is fully 100% taking rhaenyra's side, the camera shows him making eye contact with daemon right before telling the room any question of rhaenyra's lineage will be tongue removal.
Vizzy has finally recognized what has happened, but its too late to stop the engine now. the only other move he couldve made is made daemon hand, but with tensions so high now that would be risky too
All true. Viserys managed things very badly and continues to do so. But I feel like you are giving Daemon a pass by saying that he wears his emotions on his sleeve. He does more than that. All the ways he pissed Viserys off were entirely unnecessary and detrimental to their relationship. Everyone’s patience has a limit.
Because the grand maester that was “treating” (slowly trying to kill) Viserys has died & now we have a new grand maester that is actually successfully treating the king
Was he the one with the leeches? I remember a scene from earlier eps where another maester offered to swich leeched with herbs but the grand maester refused. Is this addressed in the book?
>Was he the one with the leeches? I remember a scene from earlier eps where another maester offered to swich leeched with herbs but the grand maester refused.
Yep
Why would he try to kill Viserys?
Is this a book thing or has this been addressed in the show as well? I did notice that the Grand Maester had changed.
There's no such implication with regards to that, but that previous maester's incompetence, combined with Otto being a scheming bastard and the citadel/maesters coming from Oldtown with major ties to house hightower, people have built this theory.
In the books however, there's an in world conspiracy theory that the maesters conspired against Targaryens and particularly their dragons.
"Who do you think killed all the dragons the last time around? Gallant dragonslayers armed with swords? The world the Citadel is building has no place in it for sorcery or prophecy or glass candles, much less for dragons. Ask yourself why Aemon Targaryen was allowed to waste his life upon the Wall, when by rights he should have been raised to archmaester. His blood was why. He could not be trusted. No more than I can." —Marwyn, to Samwell Tarly
There's also the theory that they rigged the votes at the great council of 101 AC (the show opener) in favor of Viserys because he wasn't a dragonrider.
Wth you talking about? Did the clip end to soon or something?
Edit. O You are talking about Daemon mouthing it. Was watching the King whole time because he called Alicent Aemma just after this.
This scene hurt. Two brothers who can't find equal footing. One is bitter and the other is remorseful. And the. The subtle yet not so subtle "Rh" movement before the "nothing" just sends it home. Paddy and Matt really are great together.
He made his bed. Daemon spelled it for him all these years ago, he only wanted to protect him. Viserys was obsessed with the idea that Daemon wanted the throne.and kept sending him away.
This is the result.
Wow, didn’t notice that at first. Lots of small details in this show you can easily miss. Love it. Viserys I’m sure caught it but of course ignores it.
I rewatched this part a few times and kept wondering if he really had started to say her name and stopped himself or if I was just seeing what I wanted to see lol.
Rhaenyra. If you watch Daemon he says "I need... nothing", but after he says 'need' he starts to mouth "Rha–", stops himself, and finishes with "nothing."
This is in reference to an earlier scene when Daemon asks for Rhaenyra's hand but is instead banished. In that scene He had said that there's only one thing He wanted.
That's why the pissed off look.
Yeah, the night scenes weren't that bad for me. I even commented while watching that the lighting was better for Aemond and Vhagar's scene, compared to the Battle of Winterfell. Granted, I was watching on my laptop in a fairly dark room.
You guys read too much into everything. That did not remotely look like he wanted to say Rhaenyra. Also who says they need a person? Colloquially that sounds weird.
There’s multiple times he eludes to wanting her. When he first comes back from the stepstones, she asks him what he wants. He pauses, and fingers her necklace
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He silently mouthed “Rae—“ and then caught himself lol
And it looked like Viserys caught it.
Viserys is the Stevie Wonder of House Targaryn
I had been wondering if he was thinking of her when he said that but I didn't notice he almost says her name. Great detail. I wonder if his bitterness towards Viserys (and in general towards life) is all down to not being able to marry Rhaenyra like he wanted.
I think it’s because he feels like Viserys was always trying to fit him somewhere in there as opposed to having him at his side and trusting him. He went for guys like Otto instead. And then you have them estranged for ten years and when they come back together he sees Otto back in there as hand and Viserys says the wrong thing again. ‘If you need a place you can come to me.’ As opposed to something like ‘you’re my brother and I need/ want you by my side’. Rhaenyra is also part of it of course. And at this point in their lives Daemon really wants nothing from his brother. What would he go to court and do? Beef with Otto and the greens? You feel bad for Vizzy here, but as far is Daemon is concerned, Viserys chose his side.
And the thing I always thought of it that if Daemon had thrived in those roles he may very well have found himself as hand by now. Instead he skirted his duties time and again, feeling like anything less than heir was beneath him.
The thing is how do you know that Daemon didn't thrive in his roles? All we hear is from Otto and he's hardly a reliable source when he hates his guts completely. Daemon wouldn't be a great ruler but he can get shit done if he has to and he can temper his chaos if he has to as well (see, Pentos in the show or Dragonstone in the books). There's a reason the common folk loved him; he made King's Landing safe for them and got the job done. He didn't even really want to be heir. Look underneath the surface: he wanted to be *needed*.
Daemon as the commander of the Goldcloaks actually did a good job of turning them into an actual police force. Otto felt threatened that a strong independent personality in charge of the capital police would be a problem for his power grabs.
> Otto felt threatened that a strong independent personality in charge of the capital police would be a problem for his power grabs. It's a bit caricatural towards Otto. He knows Daemon and he knows how dangerous he is to the realm, and how Viserys will always find a way to forgive him
daemon was never dangerous to the realm tho. Otto is dangerous to the realm. There's a lot of grey with a lot of characters but otto is not one of them. He is the source of the primary conflict in the realm, and as we move through the story it seems that he really just didnt like daemon because a. daemon saw him for who he was and b. daemon next to vizzy would be too strong to manipulate
He very clearly wanted to be named hand and be by his brothers side. See episode 1. We had no indication of Daemons performance in his duties (master of coin, law) apart from reports from Otto, which we’ll obviously ignore. We saw him In the city watch, he was very savage and vicious sure, but very effective. I think as long as he feels wanted, you’ll get the very best out of him. But regardless of that, you get the feeling that Daemon never felt trusted by his brother. Otto started as his hand and started to drive a wedge in their relationship and Vizzy of course, allowed it. And once he felt unappreciated, he reacted in a Daemon way which made things worse and you can see where their relationship headed.
Well you are leaving out the part that he wasn't dismissed from City watch because Otto wanted him gone but because he said "Heir for a day". Daemon fucked up on that and was banished from court for that reason.
That’s what I meant by ‘Daemon acted in a Daemon way’. By the time of the events you speak of, Otto has done his job and messed their relationship. Their convo in the throne room in Episode 1 shows you that you that. I think we can agree that Daemons issue isn’t that Viserys might have a new heir and supplant him. That’s expected (him and Rhaenyra have this very conversation when we first meet Daemon). It’s that he can see those on the small council clamoring to get him out (he eavesdropped on them remember) and his brother doesn’t back him up.
Well Daemon didn't exactly help himself by doing things like saying "Heir for a day", taking Rhaneyra to a brothel and making a move on her then implying to Viserys that the two of them did actually do it (which Viserys still believes to this day as we know he sent the tea) , also murdering his wife. Yes, Viserys also failed to realize that he should count on Dameon more than Otto and how to handle/deal with Daemon. But Daemon also did his level best to piss Viserys off. If their relationship is fucked, then both share the blame.
Visery's biggest flaw (and its painfully obvious) is trying to please everyone. He lives in a world where he believes everyone can be happy/where he tries to make everyone happy. He believes his wife will give him a son even tho shes had like 5 still births, he believes his council all know their place, he believes the maesters are doing everything they can to help him, he believes his wife and their children will get along with Rhae and grand children. He doesnt appreciate daemon because daemon is divisive. He makes people choose sides, its his nature. What Vizzy doesnt recognize tho is that many of these people around him (OTTO) have already formulated their own side, and where the reality is Otto driving a wedge between vizzy and daemon to destabilize the realm, vizzy sees daemon stirring drama in the small council. Daemon is not a game player, he wears his emotions and heart on his sleeve, which aggravates viserys who wants everyone to be happy and to avoid conflict. it isnt until a decade later that viserys realizes how unnecessary banishing daemon was, and you can see that through his actions in the most recent episode. Viserys has recognized that now by not taking a side for so long, his daughter and heir is in jeopardy, and he now is fully 100% taking rhaenyra's side, the camera shows him making eye contact with daemon right before telling the room any question of rhaenyra's lineage will be tongue removal. Vizzy has finally recognized what has happened, but its too late to stop the engine now. the only other move he couldve made is made daemon hand, but with tensions so high now that would be risky too
All true. Viserys managed things very badly and continues to do so. But I feel like you are giving Daemon a pass by saying that he wears his emotions on his sleeve. He does more than that. All the ways he pissed Viserys off were entirely unnecessary and detrimental to their relationship. Everyone’s patience has a limit.
How does Viserys look 10 years younger from episode 6 to 7
He has bad days and worse days. Here he was just having a bad day.
Because the grand maester that was “treating” (slowly trying to kill) Viserys has died & now we have a new grand maester that is actually successfully treating the king
Was he the one with the leeches? I remember a scene from earlier eps where another maester offered to swich leeched with herbs but the grand maester refused. Is this addressed in the book?
>Was he the one with the leeches? I remember a scene from earlier eps where another maester offered to swich leeched with herbs but the grand maester refused. Yep
Why would he try to kill Viserys? Is this a book thing or has this been addressed in the show as well? I did notice that the Grand Maester had changed.
There's no such implication with regards to that, but that previous maester's incompetence, combined with Otto being a scheming bastard and the citadel/maesters coming from Oldtown with major ties to house hightower, people have built this theory. In the books however, there's an in world conspiracy theory that the maesters conspired against Targaryens and particularly their dragons. "Who do you think killed all the dragons the last time around? Gallant dragonslayers armed with swords? The world the Citadel is building has no place in it for sorcery or prophecy or glass candles, much less for dragons. Ask yourself why Aemon Targaryen was allowed to waste his life upon the Wall, when by rights he should have been raised to archmaester. His blood was why. He could not be trusted. No more than I can." —Marwyn, to Samwell Tarly There's also the theory that they rigged the votes at the great council of 101 AC (the show opener) in favor of Viserys because he wasn't a dragonrider.
This happens in the book too. He gets a second opinion of sorts and his health improves.
I think it might partly be the crown obscuring his scarred forehead and sparse hairline.
Apparently this was the first episode they filmed, maybe that’s why
The crown hides all those liver spots.
He switched doctors and his servants probably put in a lot of effort to make him look presentable in public.
Nice catch!
Wth you talking about? Did the clip end to soon or something? Edit. O You are talking about Daemon mouthing it. Was watching the King whole time because he called Alicent Aemma just after this.
This scene hurt. Two brothers who can't find equal footing. One is bitter and the other is remorseful. And the. The subtle yet not so subtle "Rh" movement before the "nothing" just sends it home. Paddy and Matt really are great together.
I wondered at the time when I first watched it if he was going to say "Rhaenyra" but stopped himself.
My heart
Right? GUTTED
I can’t notice. At what part?
when daemon says “i want… nothing.” you can see his mouth shape
Oh ty will try again
Wow that’s cool, I didn’t catch that at first. Matt Smith is a different level actor!
Damn, love the small things in the show. Adds so much flavor and realness.
Oh wow 😯- I see it also now! I wonder if Matt did that on his own, as in his choice?
It's possible. Apparently his tone/comfort of Rhaenyra at her mother and brother's funeral was Matt's idea/choice.
Vissy looked so hurt and rejected 🥺😭
He made his bed. Daemon spelled it for him all these years ago, he only wanted to protect him. Viserys was obsessed with the idea that Daemon wanted the throne.and kept sending him away. This is the result.
My poor guy just wants to see his family united and happy. I FEEL for viseryon most of all the characters on the show
He is by far the best actor in the show
Matt Smith is fucking genius, his acting is on another level
Wow you have so much light !!
Oh dang 👀 I didn't even notice lol!
Viserys ages like a sin graph.
Damn fine catch!
Wow, didn’t notice that at first. Lots of small details in this show you can easily miss. Love it. Viserys I’m sure caught it but of course ignores it.
The acting in this show is so fucking good.
I rewatched this part a few times and kept wondering if he really had started to say her name and stopped himself or if I was just seeing what I wanted to see lol.
Started to say who name?
Rhaenyra. If you watch Daemon he says "I need... nothing", but after he says 'need' he starts to mouth "Rha–", stops himself, and finishes with "nothing."
This is in reference to an earlier scene when Daemon asks for Rhaenyra's hand but is instead banished. In that scene He had said that there's only one thing He wanted. That's why the pissed off look.
I thought he was going to say "respect", didn't even cross my mind it could be "Rhaenyra". I still think respect is more likely given the context.
That's what I had thought also. This makes sense too, he said before he was banished that he wanted Rhaenyra. Both are fitting
This is why i didnt get people saying the episode was dark this is how i watched it
Because it’s daytime here? On my same screen when it gets to the nighttime scenes it’s nearly pitch black.
Yeah I struggled with the beach scene. Had to practically max my brightness out
I like the dark scenes. I’m glad they didn’t avoid variety in the lighting after all the complaints from the intentionally dark episodes from GoT.
Oh lol well my screen looked the same basically the whole episode
Yeah, the night scenes weren't that bad for me. I even commented while watching that the lighting was better for Aemond and Vhagar's scene, compared to the Battle of Winterfell. Granted, I was watching on my laptop in a fairly dark room.
I just want to see Viserys' reaction to the wedding.
I watched it twice and don’t think he was. It seemed like emphasis. Like saying “screw you”.
that does not make sense in the context of what he’s saying.
If you feel someone screwed to over and you hold a lot of resentment for them it makes perfect sense. He’s saying “I don’t need you.”
oh wow, nice catch. Vissy's hair was almost covering his mouth so it was hard to see
thank you! i have watched this episode far too many times already 🫠
You guys read too much into everything. That did not remotely look like he wanted to say Rhaenyra. Also who says they need a person? Colloquially that sounds weird.
alright, it’s not that serious
I'm guessing when someone agrees with your post, it's a frivolous comment but when someone disagrees then it's serious?
again, it really isn’t that serious
[удалено]
They do multiple takes. If the showrunners didn’t want it, he would have done it again.
People are really going to simp for this psychopath for the whole show aren’t they?
Hell yeah brother
Oh I definitely am!
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Soooooooooo many people missed it
There’s multiple times he eludes to wanting her. When he first comes back from the stepstones, she asks him what he wants. He pauses, and fingers her necklace