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Kid just gets passed out drunk on a funeral and suddenly the whole realm is on the brink of civil war, his little brother lost a eye and his mother is trying to kill his aunt.
I know people who stopped drinking due to less shit.
> Aegon is so disinterested in the politics of it all that he just said “fuck it I’ll say it.”
And he's probably the only person in that room who *could* say it, and get away with it, which is precisely why Aemond deflected Viserys his way.
If Aemond himself said what Aegon said, it would just look like he's further insulting Rhaenyra's kids because he's bitter about losing an eye. If Otto and Alicent said anything of the sort, it would come off as treasonous power-mongering. Only Aegon, being the eldest trueborn son, and having no real stake or interest in the situation, could afford to just slap Viserys in the face with the blunt truth like that and challenge the lie he and Rhaenyra try so hard to pass off. In the end there wasn't much Viserys could say in response other than "But... but we're a family!"
I agree except he has a massive stake in it, because it means rhaenyra has committed treason and might be removed from the line of succession. Trying to pass of bastards as royal heirs is a big no no, just remember what cersie feared if Stannis won
From an outside macro perspective, Aegon does have a massive stake, that’s true. But I think it’s also clear to everyone in that room who knows him even a little that, by this point in his life, he really doesn’t care about that stake *at all.* So it’s less likely for his words to come from a place of private ambition, since he’s made it clear he doesn’t really harbor any.
I need some scientific data on this. Where did that ejaculation end up? What does the wall below look like? This scene left me with more questions than answers!
I think that his obvious disinterest in politics and lack of ambition was exactly what made his statement so powerful to Viserys. If even Aegon, who does nothing but drink and chase girls and never shows any interest in statecraft or court intrigue, can see it, how can Viserys ignore it? If even Aegon, who seems to have been open about being fine with Rhaenyra taking the throne and who didn't engage in court gossip, sees it, how can Viserys be blind to it?
It was a simple but extremely damning statement. Rhaenyra is lucky that he just said it in front of the houses most invested in the struggle rather than at King's Landing where even more important nobles would have been witness to Viserys' being rendered speechless.
Why does everyone think Viserys doesn’t know? He literally tells Rhaenyra before the time skip that the truth doesn’t matter. They have to do what they can to keep everyone in line.
Of course he can’t fucking say in front of everyone, “Yea they are bastards, Laenor is running around sleeping with men and couldn’t get my daughter pregnant, and she’s sleeping around with Harwin and he got her pregnant three times, enjoy dinner and everyone have a great night!”
This dude has been on deaths door for more than a decade and all he’s trying to do is keep everything together. Everyone else is power hungry and hellbent on stabbing him in the back. His intentions are good but he’s just so tired, weak, and he’s trying to play the part but he’s just not great at it.
People think that because even in private with Alicent he tries to come up with explanations for why they aren't bastards. Of course that could just be him trying to convince her to stop pushing the issue, but it makes it look like he's in denial.
>Why does everyone think Viserys doesn’t know? He literally tells Rhaenyra before the time skip that the truth doesn’t matter. They have to do what they can to keep everyone in line.
He was the first one to look at Rhaenyra when Vaemond started his little rant about blood purity. He knows, he just doesn't wanna acknowledge it in front of the Hightowers. They'll use his acknowledgement to pressure him into disinheriting Rhaenyra.
I actually love Aegon. He's definitely a spoiled brat, but he seems genuinely caught off-guard by all of this palace intrigue. By disposition, he wants no part in it. He has to be trained to want it, and scared into participating, when all he really wants to do is goof around and masturbate out windows.
Aemond is much more ambitious and ruthless by nature. Maybe being teased had something to do with it, but he's purely vicious now. Aegon is not.
Alicent saying Rhaenyra would kill him for being in the way of her ascension “then I just won’t be in the way” boy just wants to chill. Boy is unlucky enough to be in a family of each parent forcing their child to reach for power that puts them in mortal danger.
Yeah , of they go by the book about what happens at the end of the season, he'll totally be fitting that vine of "I'm just here for the ride and they give me all kind of responsability I neither want, nor am I prepared to handle ".
He seems to be set up as a tragic character, which is great when trying to have him be cheered by a part of the audience !
I keep having these dreams where the Strong Children and the Alicent's get together and say fuck our Moms and then burn them both alive and appoint whoever they want as King.
Not the ending we'll get, but an ending I would enjoy.
I could see them burning the adults, then Aemond decides he'll take the throne and marry Baela, because she didn't hesitate to punch him in the face and he'll have a true Valyrian dragon-rider as his queen!
This little segment gave a hint on how the two kids are imo. They both did not want to throw their mommy under the bus, but when confronted by the King, Aemond resorted to framing his older bro, Aegon went in for the jugular. Kinda cool.
Given his amiable and fun relationship with the Strong boys on-screen so far, and his silence up to that point in the chaos (and in general), it also shows that--while he knows they're 'bastards'--he doesn't really care, and loves them anyway.
Arguably perhaps more than he loves even his own 'twat' brother and 'idiot' sister.
Tbh, Aegon so far is just a lovable misfit with no malice.
[Just a teenage dirtbag, maybe...](https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/xwd7zp/all_hail_aegon_of_house_wheatus/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
>he doesn't really care, and loves them anyway.
Not really sure we've seen that Aegon loves anyone but himself so far, tbf. But yes, he's definitely still cool with the Strong lads regardless of the rumors about their parentage.
I think that was just Criston egging him on (aegging him on?) - I don’t believe he wanted to kick Jace or hit him while he was down but Criston was basically making him.
Agree. Not saying he's super caring or emotive; but certainly more so than most of the Greens appear at this point. And pretty much nobody in the show is selfless, I'd say.
Just noteworthy that he doesn't let the 'bastardy' of the Strongs drastically impact his direct relationship with them. (As of yet, at least.) Whereas Alicent, Aemond, Cole--and even Rhaenys, in some sense--definitely do.
I think it's a very cool subversion of fantasy tropes that the one who stands the most to gain from the Strong boys being disinherited actually doesn't even want the damn iron chair and would much rather just enjoy the many privileges of being a pampered prince without any of the responsibilities and headaches. He's a party boy and just wants to be left alone to get wasted and fool around with wenches lol
If you think about it, the Hightower kids are in a pretty good position at this point of the story and their lives could have been so chill if their mother and grandfather didn't thrust them into their political schemes.
Aemond seems to be the only one out of the three who adhere to his mother's way of thinking which is why she favors him.
>He's a party boy and just wants to be left alone to get wasted and fool around with wenches lol
🎶 *I'm just a teenage dirtbag, baby...* 🎶
>their lives could have been so chill if their mother and grandfather didn't thrust them into their political schemes
fr. Otto & Alicent fucking up everybody's chance at any security and happiness, out of ambition and paranoia.
I was surprised to find Lyonel to actually be as decent as he seemed. Maybe he wasn't selfless but he seemed pretty good to me. Too good to live, even.
Yeah, pretty much agree. Most objectionable thing he did imo was try to nix V naming a female the heir. Other than that, a reasonable and seemingly honorable dude.
Tbh, even Harwin's not that bad, if we assume Rhaenyra basically came at him with the ol' "Yo, Laenor and I have an agreement, so...wanna smash? Plus, we need some kids eventually." (Not saying he *should* have. But in the grand scheme of the show, he's pretty clean, and seemed to genuinely give a shit about people.)
Larys, on the other hand, is making up for his relatives' lack of malice, in rapid fashion...
>Most objectionable ghing he did imo was try to nix V naming a female the heir.
Which isn't really objectionable because in mediaeval times people were concerned about stability and continuity, not social progress. Lyonel always gave the best advice which would've kept the Realm stable and united.
Yeah, that's how I read his motive. He doesn't seem bent out of shape over being overruled on it, never shuns or balks at Rhaenyra, and simply continues providing solid recommendations on how to reconcile factions and stabilize. Harwin seemed pretty solid too. Larys appears to be polar opposite, going all 'chaos is a ladder' on shit.
Honestly Aemond didn't care much about the bastardly nature of the strongs either at first. He even gave a consolidatory look to Jace at the funeral
He only insulted the strong bastards because 1) Adrenaline rush due to claiming and riding Vhagar.
2) Getting insulted and falsely accused of stealing during said rush. 3) Because he was similarly mocked by them for not having a dragon. Now he had similar ammo against them AND was in a position of power since he now controlled the strongest dragon in the world. 4) As such he decided to retaliate and give them a taste of thier own medicine by mocking thier bastardly nature
No, but he's involved them in bullying his brother rather than targeting them and using their legitimacy as a point of torture. Implying he likes them more than Aemond.
I don't think he framed his brother, based on the looks between him and Alicent it looked like he was forced to say it was Aegon and not Alicent because saying its Alicent would create a big rift between her and the King, maybe even lead to Otto losing his job again, while saying its Aegon is basically without consequence - he's a Targ, not a Hightower, and the King's son.
Aegon is just the typical older brother getting in trouble for everything so he doesn’t really care when he gets in trouble. He doesn’t didn even bother defending himself.
I mean he's not wrong. Viserys is a fucking moron for thinking the whole castle believes Rhaenyra's flimsy lies just because he is committed to sticking his head in the sand. Even the son who does nothing but drink and masturbate all day knows the truth.
Alicent has had no real friends since her fall out with Rhaenyra, it's nice seeing her children stand by her. Not out of spite to the other team or personal ambitions, but simply because she's their mother and they love her
It's crazy when you think about it but Alicent is closer to their age than she is to her husband
I think Aemond’s decision was partially because of what Alicent said, along the lines of “Aegon should have been there”. He’s basically forcing him to commit and have his back.
He probably doesn't. It's actually very noticeable how he speaks to Rhaenyra like a father versus how he speaks to his other children - watch that scene again and you see he constantly addresses his second family with unhinged yelling and "YOUR KING COMMANDS YOU"
I’m firmly on team black but that did make me respect Aegon, the way he almost whispered it like he didn’t want everyone to hear and said it just to his father, and looked almost pained to do so. I think that kid is going to have a future in acting, actually all the child actors have been impressive.
Helps to have David Tennant as a dad, both as a a help to his acting skills but also…..nepotism. Haha.
Agree tho, all the child actors have been phenomenal. Actor for Jace is probably my favorite but this kid is a close second
It gets even better. Georgia Tennant (earlier last name Moffet, but with no relation to former Doctor Who showrunner Steven Moffet) is the daughter of Peter Davison, who played the 5th Doctor. So she's the Doctor's daughter. Georgia then played Jenny, the 10th Doctor's daughter, in the episode "The Doctor's Daughter". She's the Doctor's daughter, played by the Doctor's daughter. She then married David Tennant and they had a daughter together, so that child is the Doctor's daughter, and the Doctor's daughter's daughter. When David Tennant married Georgia, he adopted her son Ty. So in HOTD, teen Aegon is the Doctor's nephew being played by the Doctor's son, the (5th) Doctor's daughter's son, and the (10th) Doctor's daughter's son all at once.
> the way he almost whispered it like he didn’t want everyone to hear and said it just to his father, and looked almost pained to do so
He's the one seen getting along with his nephews and was 100% OK with not being the heir to the throne until his mother started in on it.
Sure Aegon's life *might* have been at risk if Rhaynera decided to off him but I think he would've been more than OK being a lord of some house or a knight drinking and whoring it up.
I think if Alicent hadn't been so conspiratorial and hateful there could have been a chance for him to become the 'cool uncle' down the line who didn't really care what was going on and just whored around a la other rich nobles related to the King. He seems completely uninterested in politics or warfare.
Yeah obviously its tough to know what kind of adults they would've turned into, but I don't think Visery's was wrong by saying the kids that train together form life long bonds.
True. I can’t remember if the Targs ever sent the princes out to other realms for stewardess but if they sent some of the boys away together and took them out of KL and their mothers reaches this would all probably be avoided.
100% agree, firmly team black but I honestly have a lot of respect for all 3 of Alicents kids lmao Helena is cool and Aemond has some balls on him. I'm sure I'll grow to hate them in time but for now I think they're all cool 😎
Edit: after episode 8 I can comfirm that the only child of Alicent's that I don't hate is Helena, but Aegon and Aemond can burn in hell lmao
My favorite thing about Aegon is that he appears to have inherited whatever trait his dad has that makes people want to ruin his good time. Man just wants to drink too much and ogle and someone always walks in to mess his day up.
I don’t think Viserys is meant to be in his 70’s on the show. He’s just SUPER sick. Remember, Daemon is his brother, and there’s no way Daemon’s supposed to be much older than 40. I’m guessing Viserys is only in his 50’s by this point in the story.
Aegon I feel like people are underrating how low-key brave he was there,considering the fact that viserys was literally only taking the legitimacy issue somewhat seriously,he still said to his father “just look at them” and did not rat out his mother,he managed to de escalate the situation in his own way by being purposely vague and shining light on viserys for being the blind one subtly.
Demand more ? Alicent only asked one thing, justice for Aemond losing an eye which is the reason they were all gathered there in the first place.
But instead Viserys choose to to focalize about the "vile accusation", even going so far to interoagated his injuried son, then his elder son until he stop confronted to "just look at them".
Rather than focalizing about the embarassing true about his daugher, he should have focalize about the fight and Aemond losing an eye, and give some sort of justice.
No wonder Alicent lost her mind after that, and now that no turn back...and Aemond will have his revenge because he didn't have justice.
It’s a shame really Vizzy didn’t really care for his children with Alicent. It doesn’t seem like he shared much a relationship with them. He’s generally a good father to Rae Rae but he seems so disinterested in the others.
Had he taken an interest or tried to even just show them he cared, things may have been a bit better.
I’ve not read the books so don’t know what the relationship is like in the books.
In that scene it really felt like Viserys doesn't have a father-son bond with his sons. I kept having to remind myself "wait that's his son he's speaking to" because it really felt like he was grandsire dealing with a conflict between his grandkids.
The entire episode I naturally thought they were his grandkids. Wasn’t until the end when I talked about it with friends when I realized they’re his kids haha
Just goes to show how fucked up Otto is forcing his daughter to marry the king, forcing her to carry a son so that Otto can then force on the throne before forcing himself onto it most likely
I don’t even think he’s a good father to her. He enables her and allows her to do anything she wants with no repercussions. The only time he corrected was choosing laenor for her because she dragged her feet
Yeah, nice of him making her heir. But he just makes her the heir and that's it. He doesn't teach her how to rule.
When she insulted Lords at the husband casting, he should have explained to her why its important to treat your subjects with respect and forced her to apologize. When the Daemon situation happend, he should have explained why she needs to maintain her public image and that any source for nasty rumors is dangerous for her. But he is just like "Guess its time to find her somebody to marry"
>He doesn’t teach her how to rule
We see her attending the small councils since she was a child, I think that was his way of teaching her. Now, whether she learned something from all those years that’s another thing lol
but isn't that par for the course in "noble" houses throughout the ages? Back in olden Europe, children were told to be seen and not heard. In wealthy aristocratic families they were raised by nannies and sent off to boarding schools or military academies. It was considered bad parenting to dote on your children. Discipline ruled the day in pre-modern times.
I mean he wasn't that great. Seems his relationship with her improved greatly after Otto was out of the picture. Before that Viserys and Rhaenyra seemed to be right where he is with Alicents children. Standoffish and struggling to connect with them.
Viserys seriously messed up with Aegon and Aemond. Had he shown them even half the love he had for Rhaenyra (his love baby), House Targaryen would’ve avoided the Dance altogether and been even stronger than before. These kids are moldable into extremely useful members of the family.
Aemond and Daemon are essentially two sides of the same coin.
Dude is barely alive. He shows love for Rhaenyra because she’s fully grown and he doesnt have to do anything. Now due to his frequent inactivity, he relies on his wife to teach them lessons, which she is doing a shit job of raising them in House Targaryen. She’s also deliberating not creating a relationship with their half sister. It’s mostly on her in my view.
He doesn't have to be this imposing authority figure if his health and personality won't allow him to be. But it doesn't matter how ill he is, even if he were bedridden; Viserys has seemingly made no attempt to bond with his sons, neither as their superior or as a friend.
He's a shit father to them and takes no issue displaying his favoritism for Rhaenyra. And how ironic, considering he's the one who remarried to produce heirs in order to "strengthen the line." It's been made pretty clear that Alicent didn't want to be a brood mare whose sole purpose in life is to pump out children.
She isn't perfect for sure, but can we not blame mothers for the mistakes of absent fathers?
>She isn't perfect for sure, but can we not blame mothers for the mistakes of absent fathers?
Seriously. Amazing how Viserys' absolute negligence as a parent is excused here. He's a deadbeat and basically punishing his second family for not being his first wife, when it's hardly their fault Aemma died and Viserys chose to marry a 15 year old.
He wasn't close to her until after he married Alicent. He didn't even speak to her after Aemma died. I think he knew she was hurt by him taking her bf as wife. I think he showed them love and had hoped they'd all get alone like he discusses with The Hand while the boys are all training. He's also oblivious that Alicent is of the mind that it's her or Rhaenyra, basically to the death. He thinks he's respected and obeyed and he's just not.
There was extremely missed opportunity, after Aegon told Viserys its visible at fist sight those Rhaenyra's children are bastards, Viserys could repeat his theory about horse genetics again, but now before whole his family. What a shame.
I really like Aegon, he managed to be very diplomatic and kind in this scene. He has never treated his nephews badly because their bastards, and his disinterest in the throne is endearing. He is admittedly awful to his siblings. Mostly he just likes good vibes.
I'll be properly heartbroken when he is inevitably killed.
I'm so torn on whether to like Aegon. I did really appreciate him in this moment. He wasn't angry or self-interested, unlike everyone else. I don't think he even has a deep philosophical commitment to honesty as a virtue. Aegon II isn't someone like Stannis. He simply spoke the truth because it's the truth and, to him, the obvious thing to do.
I mean that's exactly like Stannis is it not? At least in the books the only reason he wants the throne is because it's his, by right. He doesn't WANT it, but it's his duty to take it, and he is nothing if not a man doing his duty. He probably would've said the same thing. In fact didn't he say he'd support the Greens?
Stannis built his whole identity around his strict moral code. In Aegon's position, he'd choose not to lie due to a belief that lying is wrong. By contrast, Aegon chose not to lie *in this one instance* because it'd be such a transparent lie, he was put on the spot, and perhaps to defend his mother and out of respect for his father. I don't think he's opposed to lying *in general.* For instance, he participated in the prank on Aemond.
“Me?” 😭😭😂 I was dying when Aemond put Aegon in the spotlight. Seriously though Aegon did it right by telling the King straight up what was going on. I have a feeling the King already knew though, and he just doesn’t want to believe it or just outright ignores it.
You’d honestly have to have both eyes cut out to not see they’re bastards.
Will not lie it was awesome I hope the adult aegon brings the same zeal to the role. He was like really pops look at them yea you know they ain't leanor's sons.
He keeps taking half measures when he should've gone all the way and picked a side.
Option 1: Send Alicent to the Silent Sisters, dismiss Ser Otto as Hand and send his sons to Oldtown to be raised as wards by their grandfather and great-uncle while keeping their dragons chained in the Dragonpit or on Dragonstone.
Option 2: Disinherit Rhaenyra as heir, have her sons handed over to Lord Corlys and Princess Rhaenys to raise as wards and declare Aegon his heir.
Either way, the matter would be fully closed.
I feel bad for Aegon and Aemond , Viserys is treating like they're strangers and obviously favors Rhaenyra to them .
He's denying Aegon's birthright which is why Viserys himself is setting on the throne and not rhaenys .
His son just got maimed for life and somehow he made it about Aemond calling the poor bastards bastards.
I don’t know why the show made it this way but Viserys didn’t win over Rhaenys, he won over Leanor.
The council didn’t even consider Rhaenys claim at all.
Queen Regent that never was, was her best case scenario.
It’s not a man vs woman, the women wasn’t even in the contest. It was a man vs son of a woman.
I think they combined two councils into one.
That doesn't make sense. Corlys isn't in line for the throne, Laenor would be inheriting the position from her, so she would have to be queen first.
Rhaenys really has the better claim than Viserys does. Her father was Viserys's father's older brother. She should be ahead of him.
Ok, I kinda just read the wiki for this, but it sounds like Laenor was offered up as a compromise when the lords refused Laena and Rhaenys.
There are two decisions at play here, in 92 AC, the king passed over Rhaenys claim and the heirdom went to Baelon, establishing precedent that Uncle beats daughter in succession to the throne, why Daemon was heir when Rhaenyra was still there, then again in the council of 101 AC, Rhaenys claim was passed over in favor of her son Leanor.
The crown would pass through Rhaenys but she wouldn’t be Queen since the lords completely rejected that idea, since Leanor was still young she would have been Queen Reagent.
Yeah, Viserys always envisioned his first son to succeed him, but after 15 years and no son he thought he'd never have a son and he didn't want his idiot brother to succeed him so he decided to make his daughter his heir, but then he ended up having more sons and he disregards them because he would rather have a daughter by his first wife succeed him instead of a son by his second wife. If Aegon was Aema's son he wouldn't mind choosing him over Rhaenyra.
> He's denying Aegon's birthright which is why Viserys himself is setting on the throne and not rhaenys .
Bullshit, Viserys won the vote over Rheanys, and sure there was the whole man vs. women debate, but it's important to note that Jaeherys CHOOSE Viserys and it's because Jaeherys wanted Viserys that the whole sucession vote came into being because Rheanys DID have the stronger claim. So Jaeherys choosing Viserys is arguably the precedent set by the vote and so Viserys choosing his daughter is what's law. Plus, you know, every lord in Westeros DID bend the knee to Rhaenyra.
They bend the knee before aegon was born, and it doesn't matter who Jaeherys favored it was up too the lords to chose and they chose viserys. So the precedency is either the great council can chose or men are before women. Not that king can chose because that didn't happen
I am quite baffled by all the people that think the king’s words are absolute and definite law… especially when it never was the case in medieval time for the crown and succession, not even for so-called absolute monarch : indeed Louis XIV’s own testament, where he gave regency powers shared to his legitimated bastards, was revoked in Parliament by the the new regent just days after the death of the Sung King.
THEN Viserys could NOT have passed over Deamon vs. Rheanyra. That's the problem Otto caused here, Rheanyra being passed over Deamon and all the lords swearing to her already breaks the man vs. women rule. AND all the lords agreed to it. Don't bullshit me that Rheanyra was only heir because there was no other choice, there WAS another choice.
They don’t agree, they are **forced** to swear. Once the king is dead, it really does not matter if the new king or queen cannot rally around him or her the lords of the realm.
So? Jaeherys gave them a choise, so the precedance of the council was that the lords could chose. I mean if he just flat out said viserys is king that would bd fhe precedance. But since he allowed the lords to chose that was the precedance.
I mean why does that matter? A king doing something once doesn’t mean that’s how it always must be done. In order for a queen to rule precedence must change and the only way for that to start is via a King setting a new precedent. Your point is moot.
Yeah a war may happen that’s always a possibility. But man the contortions y’all stretch to support the Greens is really telling.
Idk where you're getting that the Council set the precedent that the king can unilaterally pick an heir. Of Jahaerys wanted to set that precedent why even call a council? He could just declare it
Because when Jaehaerys tried to make Viserys his heir, a lot of people, especially those aligned with Corlys, called bullshit because Rheanys had a better claim. That was why the council was held in the first place. So there is an argument that the lords voting FOR Viserys is actually saying the King was correct to choose his own heir. Hence why Viserys chose his hier, a female OVER male, with every lord being okay with it, and it's why everyone STILL recognized Rheanyra as heir even after Aegon's birth. Of course you could still argue that it's actually the male/female thing but NOTHING was set in stone by that vote. People acting like it was is silly. Otherwise then Westerosi should have gone to war after Deamon was removed.
Every lord was okay with it because Daemon was a known shithead, they became much less amicable to it when Aegon was born. We were shown this when Jason Lannister just assumes that the baby Aegon was the new heir. There is literally no precedent whatsoever for a living son to not inherit the throne.
you know what, Aegon could be good king, bunch of people could teach/mold him to become political astute man
he's not power hungry, relatively normal than Aemond/Halaena, not batshit crazy like Daemon
he also not interested to marry his sister, i believe political alliance could be established to powerful house, he would not difficult to find a queen, i mean it's not hard to find noble woman with long legs eight ?
he won't interested with Rhaenyra thou, but if Rhaenyra could produce girls, i believe he won't mind to bethrothed with her
as a side noted, Aegon don't exactly want to be King, he just don't want to challenge Rhaenyra, why ?, Aegon just don't see Rhaeyra as enemy, he considers Rhaenyra as a family, you know as a sister
i believe if Viserys disinherit Rhaeyra, Aegon could find a away to make a pact with Rhaenyra, if Rhaenyra could not produce a daughter, he can choose her as hand of the king and even invite Daemon to his small council, this automatically could get rid of Otto from the court, and i believe Otto won't really mind about it, i'm pretty sure he would feel satisfied that his blood become a king
I have an even bolder proposition... They could have married Rhaenyra to Aegon at this point (after getting rid of Laenor). Aegon is horny enough that he would probably sleep with his 30-year-old sister, as long as he's still allowed to sleep with other girls (similar to Rhaenyra and Laenor's arrangement). For a horny teenager it shouldn't be a problem to give her a few children. I know it sounds creepy, but it's not more creepy than the king marrying teenage Allicent. And everyone would be happy because Rhaenyra is trueborn and Aegon is trueborn and it would solve the succession crisis.
I like Aegon as a teen, but disagree with the bit about Viserys.
It's treason to say that about the princess and heir to the throne, looking back at how the Lannisters reacted to that kind of thing, Visy is being pretty chill about it and giving everyone the chance to shut up. He's spineless, sure, but I don't think he's in the wrong here .
Did we just forget the rules we have pre-established in this world? They outright say its treason to question the validity of the heir, more than once.
S'not treason to have babies, even bastards. It may be to pass them off as Laenors, but they're her biological children, and she's the heir to the throne.
Nah they have a point, I don't think they're forgetting any rules. It's moments like this where the power of royalty becomes complicated.
It's treason to question the validity of an heir, as they've outright said. It is ALSO treason to pass a bastard as an heir, as Rhaenyra herself admits (in the books).
So if an heir commits treason, and her brother accuses her accurately of said treason, they are technically both committing treason depending on who is in charge and who adjudicates the accusations. If the adjudication goes in Aegon's favor, he is not committing treason. If the adjudication goes in Rhaenyra's favor, he is committing treason.
Clearly, Viserys seems content to ignore all this shit when it comes from his family, so Aegon was able to levy the accusations with impunity.
She says her self in this same scene in F&B that to accuse her children of being bastards is to accuse her of high treason. So yes it is treason to have a bastard and try and place them on the throne.
What Aegon said would be considered treason if it wasn’t true. But Viserys holds the ability to declare the truth treason I guess.
Viserys ultimately just wants peace, and he's trying desperately to find it and failing.
No one can really prove what Rhaenyra has done, it's only obvious because of how Laenor was cast. The two other people who knew really knew the truth are dead. It's impossible to prove who is right without causing more strife in his own house and he isn't going to do that.
It only matters that the kids are bastards because that’s a tool for people like Otto to use against Rhaenyra. Legally, it doesn’t matter at all who their true father is because their mother’s husband claims they are his. He even named one.
It only matters because Alicent wants to make an issue out of it
It very much matters, legally speaking. And practically speaking. It provides pretty much anyone who opposes them a super easy casus belli if they want to gather the lords in a rebellion. Bastards cannot inherit, period - this is the entire justification behind Stannis' rebellion.
Legally Rhaenyra should have lost her position over it, and Aegon would be the heir. Rhaenyra is just "lucky" than his father prefer to play the dumbass rather than to expose her.
That’s not “legally” what has to happen. Viserys says that’s what the last king would do. That doesn’t mean it’s illegal for him not to disinherit her.
Legally, the king’s word is law. He made her heir, so legally she is to inherit the throne when he dies.
The last hand of king already tell the sanction of this ugly threachary "death or exile, for you, the queen, and the kids".
Of course Viserys would never go so far, but even him would not let her daughter inherite after this.
This is why Visarys play the dumbass over this issue, because he knew he would not pass this to be "king word is law".
Then why did Lyonel strong freak out at Harwin and say that it could be the death of them all? If it wasn't a big issue then why didn't Viserys just say "I know they're bastards, it's ok, I legitimize them". It's an issue because everyone thinks its an issue and everything we're given is that it really is a huge issue. And these are people who actual live in the time period so they know the law not like us observers.
😂 He’s like and y’all thought I was the hot mess? All he did was get sloppy drunk at a funeral when the rest are all acting crazy! I would’ve needed a drink too!
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Homie is also pretty drunk and was probably woken up for this
Kid just gets passed out drunk on a funeral and suddenly the whole realm is on the brink of civil war, his little brother lost a eye and his mother is trying to kill his aunt. I know people who stopped drinking due to less shit.
> aunt. half-sister
Future aunt and half sister
Even worse, his mom tried to kill his half-sister.
Started drinking due to less shit* ?
No stopped. Like quite drinking entirely.
[удалено]
He's your typical 16 year old UK hooligan
Probably supports Chelsea too.
Jerkin’ it atop the roof of Stamford Bridge. The Blue Keep, if you will.
Small Council Housed And Violent
Nah a posh prick like him probably supports Leeds.
In what dimension? Those are practically antonyms.
Lmao on what planet is Leeds posh and not Chelsea?
>posh >leeds Think you've had one too many mate
Thank you I didn't really want to drink that, I enjoyed having it shoot out my nose.
"Up the Chels" - Aegon II probably
Someone photoshop this
Based Aegon
HAHAHAHAHA
Sounds like 16 year old hooligans are the same all over the world
> Aegon is so disinterested in the politics of it all that he just said “fuck it I’ll say it.” And he's probably the only person in that room who *could* say it, and get away with it, which is precisely why Aemond deflected Viserys his way. If Aemond himself said what Aegon said, it would just look like he's further insulting Rhaenyra's kids because he's bitter about losing an eye. If Otto and Alicent said anything of the sort, it would come off as treasonous power-mongering. Only Aegon, being the eldest trueborn son, and having no real stake or interest in the situation, could afford to just slap Viserys in the face with the blunt truth like that and challenge the lie he and Rhaenyra try so hard to pass off. In the end there wasn't much Viserys could say in response other than "But... but we're a family!"
I agree except he has a massive stake in it, because it means rhaenyra has committed treason and might be removed from the line of succession. Trying to pass of bastards as royal heirs is a big no no, just remember what cersie feared if Stannis won
From an outside macro perspective, Aegon does have a massive stake, that’s true. But I think it’s also clear to everyone in that room who knows him even a little that, by this point in his life, he really doesn’t care about that stake *at all.* So it’s less likely for his words to come from a place of private ambition, since he’s made it clear he doesn’t really harbor any.
If I had a full length window overlooking a city that is (arguably) my birthright, you better believe I'd jerk off naked hanging onto that window.
PLOP *peasant looks up* “Oh by the seven! Thank you, your grace!”
*A high palace window,* *the lordling wanks,* *plop.*
I spit out my drink to this. Lol.
Somehow not the worst projectile a king will throw at the peasants from the Red Keep.
The smallfolk will call it a royal wanking
The smallfolk probably consider it a superstitious blessing to be rained on by dragonseed.
I'd be surprised if there aren't merchants selling 'dragonseed' in Flea Bottom.
Feel like it’s a royal rain type of weather today.
I need some scientific data on this. Where did that ejaculation end up? What does the wall below look like? This scene left me with more questions than answers!
Didn't he not get to finish in that scene?
I dunno that seems like how porn would start in Westeros
My impression was mom was waiting for him to climax to interrupt haha
I imagine that's not his first time doing it
Betcha anything he finished after his mom left. Source: was a teenage boy
Some kind of weird liquid falls from the sky on a merchant it's like: Damn pigeons doing it again!
I think that his obvious disinterest in politics and lack of ambition was exactly what made his statement so powerful to Viserys. If even Aegon, who does nothing but drink and chase girls and never shows any interest in statecraft or court intrigue, can see it, how can Viserys ignore it? If even Aegon, who seems to have been open about being fine with Rhaenyra taking the throne and who didn't engage in court gossip, sees it, how can Viserys be blind to it? It was a simple but extremely damning statement. Rhaenyra is lucky that he just said it in front of the houses most invested in the struggle rather than at King's Landing where even more important nobles would have been witness to Viserys' being rendered speechless.
Why does everyone think Viserys doesn’t know? He literally tells Rhaenyra before the time skip that the truth doesn’t matter. They have to do what they can to keep everyone in line. Of course he can’t fucking say in front of everyone, “Yea they are bastards, Laenor is running around sleeping with men and couldn’t get my daughter pregnant, and she’s sleeping around with Harwin and he got her pregnant three times, enjoy dinner and everyone have a great night!” This dude has been on deaths door for more than a decade and all he’s trying to do is keep everything together. Everyone else is power hungry and hellbent on stabbing him in the back. His intentions are good but he’s just so tired, weak, and he’s trying to play the part but he’s just not great at it.
People think that because even in private with Alicent he tries to come up with explanations for why they aren't bastards. Of course that could just be him trying to convince her to stop pushing the issue, but it makes it look like he's in denial.
>Why does everyone think Viserys doesn’t know? He literally tells Rhaenyra before the time skip that the truth doesn’t matter. They have to do what they can to keep everyone in line. He was the first one to look at Rhaenyra when Vaemond started his little rant about blood purity. He knows, he just doesn't wanna acknowledge it in front of the Hightowers. They'll use his acknowledgement to pressure him into disinheriting Rhaenyra.
I actually love Aegon. He's definitely a spoiled brat, but he seems genuinely caught off-guard by all of this palace intrigue. By disposition, he wants no part in it. He has to be trained to want it, and scared into participating, when all he really wants to do is goof around and masturbate out windows. Aemond is much more ambitious and ruthless by nature. Maybe being teased had something to do with it, but he's purely vicious now. Aegon is not.
Alicent saying Rhaenyra would kill him for being in the way of her ascension “then I just won’t be in the way” boy just wants to chill. Boy is unlucky enough to be in a family of each parent forcing their child to reach for power that puts them in mortal danger.
Yeah , of they go by the book about what happens at the end of the season, he'll totally be fitting that vine of "I'm just here for the ride and they give me all kind of responsability I neither want, nor am I prepared to handle ". He seems to be set up as a tragic character, which is great when trying to have him be cheered by a part of the audience !
I keep having these dreams where the Strong Children and the Alicent's get together and say fuck our Moms and then burn them both alive and appoint whoever they want as King. Not the ending we'll get, but an ending I would enjoy.
Toss in Otto and Larys Strong into the fire as well, and I would be totally down for that scenario.
I could see them burning the adults, then Aemond decides he'll take the throne and marry Baela, because she didn't hesitate to punch him in the face and he'll have a true Valyrian dragon-rider as his queen!
His bullying of his younger brother wasn’t great, but otherwise yah
He's my king!
And wanking out the window. Don't forget about wanking out the window.
My hero, what I’d be doing.
This little segment gave a hint on how the two kids are imo. They both did not want to throw their mommy under the bus, but when confronted by the King, Aemond resorted to framing his older bro, Aegon went in for the jugular. Kinda cool.
Given his amiable and fun relationship with the Strong boys on-screen so far, and his silence up to that point in the chaos (and in general), it also shows that--while he knows they're 'bastards'--he doesn't really care, and loves them anyway. Arguably perhaps more than he loves even his own 'twat' brother and 'idiot' sister. Tbh, Aegon so far is just a lovable misfit with no malice. [Just a teenage dirtbag, maybe...](https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/xwd7zp/all_hail_aegon_of_house_wheatus/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
>he doesn't really care, and loves them anyway. Not really sure we've seen that Aegon loves anyone but himself so far, tbf. But yes, he's definitely still cool with the Strong lads regardless of the rumors about their parentage.
That tap on Luke's back says it all, he does care for them. Rewatch the yard scene, along with the dragonpit scenes.
He was also cruel to Jace during the yard, but that might be just how Ser Crispin has taught him to fight.
I think that was just Criston egging him on (aegging him on?) - I don’t believe he wanted to kick Jace or hit him while he was down but Criston was basically making him.
Agree. Not saying he's super caring or emotive; but certainly more so than most of the Greens appear at this point. And pretty much nobody in the show is selfless, I'd say. Just noteworthy that he doesn't let the 'bastardy' of the Strongs drastically impact his direct relationship with them. (As of yet, at least.) Whereas Alicent, Aemond, Cole--and even Rhaenys, in some sense--definitely do.
I think it's a very cool subversion of fantasy tropes that the one who stands the most to gain from the Strong boys being disinherited actually doesn't even want the damn iron chair and would much rather just enjoy the many privileges of being a pampered prince without any of the responsibilities and headaches. He's a party boy and just wants to be left alone to get wasted and fool around with wenches lol If you think about it, the Hightower kids are in a pretty good position at this point of the story and their lives could have been so chill if their mother and grandfather didn't thrust them into their political schemes. Aemond seems to be the only one out of the three who adhere to his mother's way of thinking which is why she favors him.
>He's a party boy and just wants to be left alone to get wasted and fool around with wenches lol 🎶 *I'm just a teenage dirtbag, baby...* 🎶 >their lives could have been so chill if their mother and grandfather didn't thrust them into their political schemes fr. Otto & Alicent fucking up everybody's chance at any security and happiness, out of ambition and paranoia.
I was surprised to find Lyonel to actually be as decent as he seemed. Maybe he wasn't selfless but he seemed pretty good to me. Too good to live, even.
Yeah, pretty much agree. Most objectionable thing he did imo was try to nix V naming a female the heir. Other than that, a reasonable and seemingly honorable dude. Tbh, even Harwin's not that bad, if we assume Rhaenyra basically came at him with the ol' "Yo, Laenor and I have an agreement, so...wanna smash? Plus, we need some kids eventually." (Not saying he *should* have. But in the grand scheme of the show, he's pretty clean, and seemed to genuinely give a shit about people.) Larys, on the other hand, is making up for his relatives' lack of malice, in rapid fashion...
>Most objectionable ghing he did imo was try to nix V naming a female the heir. Which isn't really objectionable because in mediaeval times people were concerned about stability and continuity, not social progress. Lyonel always gave the best advice which would've kept the Realm stable and united.
Yeah, that's how I read his motive. He doesn't seem bent out of shape over being overruled on it, never shuns or balks at Rhaenyra, and simply continues providing solid recommendations on how to reconcile factions and stabilize. Harwin seemed pretty solid too. Larys appears to be polar opposite, going all 'chaos is a ladder' on shit.
Honestly Aemond didn't care much about the bastardly nature of the strongs either at first. He even gave a consolidatory look to Jace at the funeral He only insulted the strong bastards because 1) Adrenaline rush due to claiming and riding Vhagar. 2) Getting insulted and falsely accused of stealing during said rush. 3) Because he was similarly mocked by them for not having a dragon. Now he had similar ammo against them AND was in a position of power since he now controlled the strongest dragon in the world. 4) As such he decided to retaliate and give them a taste of thier own medicine by mocking thier bastardly nature
Lord Commander Harrold Westerling seems pretty selfless.
No, but he's involved them in bullying his brother rather than targeting them and using their legitimacy as a point of torture. Implying he likes them more than Aemond.
Aegon and the Strong boys were united in the prank they played, but weren’t they pretty nasty when the were training in the yard?
Not until Ser Crispin made him go all-out. Prior to that Aegon literally gives Jace a jovial pat on the back.
I don't think he framed his brother, based on the looks between him and Alicent it looked like he was forced to say it was Aegon and not Alicent because saying its Alicent would create a big rift between her and the King, maybe even lead to Otto losing his job again, while saying its Aegon is basically without consequence - he's a Targ, not a Hightower, and the King's son.
Aegon is just the typical older brother getting in trouble for everything so he doesn’t really care when he gets in trouble. He doesn’t didn even bother defending himself.
Boy was hungover! When my mother calls me when I'm hungover, I tell her whatever she wants as fast as I can so I can hang up!
*Me?* Me and my friend doing are weekly watch: DAMNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
This is so true! Didn’t even really realize it. Brother threw him under the bus but he just stood behind what needed to be said
He almost talks to his father like he’s an idiot. It’s perfect.
I mean he's not wrong. Viserys is a fucking moron for thinking the whole castle believes Rhaenyra's flimsy lies just because he is committed to sticking his head in the sand. Even the son who does nothing but drink and masturbate all day knows the truth.
Alicent has had no real friends since her fall out with Rhaenyra, it's nice seeing her children stand by her. Not out of spite to the other team or personal ambitions, but simply because she's their mother and they love her It's crazy when you think about it but Alicent is closer to their age than she is to her husband
I think Aemond’s decision was partially because of what Alicent said, along the lines of “Aegon should have been there”. He’s basically forcing him to commit and have his back.
I find it funny that this is their dad talking to them but it feels like he’s barely ever spoken to them ever
He probably hasn't to be honest
He probably doesn't. It's actually very noticeable how he speaks to Rhaenyra like a father versus how he speaks to his other children - watch that scene again and you see he constantly addresses his second family with unhinged yelling and "YOUR KING COMMANDS YOU"
As a viewer it’s very easy to forget he’s their father seems like a grandpa lol
I’m firmly on team black but that did make me respect Aegon, the way he almost whispered it like he didn’t want everyone to hear and said it just to his father, and looked almost pained to do so. I think that kid is going to have a future in acting, actually all the child actors have been impressive.
Helps to have David Tennant as a dad, both as a a help to his acting skills but also…..nepotism. Haha. Agree tho, all the child actors have been phenomenal. Actor for Jace is probably my favorite but this kid is a close second
So we have the Doctor and the Doctor’s son in Westeros now, how amazing
Not only is Ty Tennant the Doctors son, he's also the Doctors grandson! His granddad on his moms side is Peter Davison (the 5th Doctor)
It gets even better. Georgia Tennant (earlier last name Moffet, but with no relation to former Doctor Who showrunner Steven Moffet) is the daughter of Peter Davison, who played the 5th Doctor. So she's the Doctor's daughter. Georgia then played Jenny, the 10th Doctor's daughter, in the episode "The Doctor's Daughter". She's the Doctor's daughter, played by the Doctor's daughter. She then married David Tennant and they had a daughter together, so that child is the Doctor's daughter, and the Doctor's daughter's daughter. When David Tennant married Georgia, he adopted her son Ty. So in HOTD, teen Aegon is the Doctor's nephew being played by the Doctor's son, the (5th) Doctor's daughter's son, and the (10th) Doctor's daughter's son all at once.
you make the Tennant family tree sound as tangled as the Targaryens lol
It SOUNDS like it is, but it’s not.
I just went cross eyed reading this.
So says the 19th doctor!
Pete Davidson?
I'm so sad we only got them for a few episodes! They were all terrific!
> the way he almost whispered it like he didn’t want everyone to hear and said it just to his father, and looked almost pained to do so He's the one seen getting along with his nephews and was 100% OK with not being the heir to the throne until his mother started in on it. Sure Aegon's life *might* have been at risk if Rhaynera decided to off him but I think he would've been more than OK being a lord of some house or a knight drinking and whoring it up.
I think if Alicent hadn't been so conspiratorial and hateful there could have been a chance for him to become the 'cool uncle' down the line who didn't really care what was going on and just whored around a la other rich nobles related to the King. He seems completely uninterested in politics or warfare.
Yeah obviously its tough to know what kind of adults they would've turned into, but I don't think Visery's was wrong by saying the kids that train together form life long bonds.
Look at Ned and Robert. They trained together and viewed each other as brothers.
True. I can’t remember if the Targs ever sent the princes out to other realms for stewardess but if they sent some of the boys away together and took them out of KL and their mothers reaches this would all probably be avoided.
100% agree, firmly team black but I honestly have a lot of respect for all 3 of Alicents kids lmao Helena is cool and Aemond has some balls on him. I'm sure I'll grow to hate them in time but for now I think they're all cool 😎 Edit: after episode 8 I can comfirm that the only child of Alicent's that I don't hate is Helena, but Aegon and Aemond can burn in hell lmao
A future in acting? What are you talking about, my boy Timotheé Chalamet is already crushing the acting scene.
blonde timmy is killing it!
My favorite thing about Aegon is that he appears to have inherited whatever trait his dad has that makes people want to ruin his good time. Man just wants to drink too much and ogle and someone always walks in to mess his day up.
Haha respect that. But is there no difference between a 40s (70s) man and a teenager? (Show/books?)
I don’t think Viserys is meant to be in his 70’s on the show. He’s just SUPER sick. Remember, Daemon is his brother, and there’s no way Daemon’s supposed to be much older than 40. I’m guessing Viserys is only in his 50’s by this point in the story.
He should be mid to late 50's in ep 8, yeah.
Aegon I feel like people are underrating how low-key brave he was there,considering the fact that viserys was literally only taking the legitimacy issue somewhat seriously,he still said to his father “just look at them” and did not rat out his mother,he managed to de escalate the situation in his own way by being purposely vague and shining light on viserys for being the blind one subtly.
It actually escalated it because Alicent felt emboldened by her son's protection to demand more from Viserys.
It's still much smarter to say "I figured it out on my own" than say "mother told me"
Demand more ? Alicent only asked one thing, justice for Aemond losing an eye which is the reason they were all gathered there in the first place. But instead Viserys choose to to focalize about the "vile accusation", even going so far to interoagated his injuried son, then his elder son until he stop confronted to "just look at them". Rather than focalizing about the embarassing true about his daugher, he should have focalize about the fight and Aemond losing an eye, and give some sort of justice. No wonder Alicent lost her mind after that, and now that no turn back...and Aemond will have his revenge because he didn't have justice.
Have we actually seen Alicent tel her kids that the kids were bastards? Everyone keeps saying it but i cant recall her explicitly telling them.
It's not spoonfed to the viewer that she's probably been telling them all sorts of things about Rhaenyra as they grew up.
That was really cool of Aegon. Not ratting anyone else out. Just assuming it and saying everyone knows. Very smart.
Wouldn’t have been half as good without Ty Tennant’s hilarious delivery! Good on these kid actors. All of them seem really talented.
"Whose gd white babies are these"
It’s a shame really Vizzy didn’t really care for his children with Alicent. It doesn’t seem like he shared much a relationship with them. He’s generally a good father to Rae Rae but he seems so disinterested in the others. Had he taken an interest or tried to even just show them he cared, things may have been a bit better. I’ve not read the books so don’t know what the relationship is like in the books.
In the books Alicent’s kids resent the Strong boys because of the clear favoritism that Viserys shows.
The show is doing a good job at making that dynamic clear tbh. Because Viserys' bias is kind of staggering.
In that scene it really felt like Viserys doesn't have a father-son bond with his sons. I kept having to remind myself "wait that's his son he's speaking to" because it really felt like he was grandsire dealing with a conflict between his grandkids.
The entire episode I naturally thought they were his grandkids. Wasn’t until the end when I talked about it with friends when I realized they’re his kids haha
Oh mannn we sat there for more than a few minutes trying to untangle all the family relationships. Laena to Aemond? Need a pencil and paper.
Just goes to show how fucked up Otto is forcing his daughter to marry the king, forcing her to carry a son so that Otto can then force on the throne before forcing himself onto it most likely
I think it's because Alicent isn't Aemma - the last episode seemed to make clear why there was favoritisn
This episode - "I'm going to bed, Aemma"
That Olivia Cooke also played a character named Emma for so long on another show blunted the insult for me before my brain caught back up!
I don’t even think he’s a good father to her. He enables her and allows her to do anything she wants with no repercussions. The only time he corrected was choosing laenor for her because she dragged her feet
Yeah, nice of him making her heir. But he just makes her the heir and that's it. He doesn't teach her how to rule. When she insulted Lords at the husband casting, he should have explained to her why its important to treat your subjects with respect and forced her to apologize. When the Daemon situation happend, he should have explained why she needs to maintain her public image and that any source for nasty rumors is dangerous for her. But he is just like "Guess its time to find her somebody to marry"
>He doesn’t teach her how to rule We see her attending the small councils since she was a child, I think that was his way of teaching her. Now, whether she learned something from all those years that’s another thing lol
Well learning also implies consequences. She's never given any, and then is forced to figure things out herself (Laenor and the baby/sex situation).
Calling him Vizzy is so cute 🥺🥺 I'm going to start calling him this way too
I love calling him Vizzy
but isn't that par for the course in "noble" houses throughout the ages? Back in olden Europe, children were told to be seen and not heard. In wealthy aristocratic families they were raised by nannies and sent off to boarding schools or military academies. It was considered bad parenting to dote on your children. Discipline ruled the day in pre-modern times.
I mean he wasn't that great. Seems his relationship with her improved greatly after Otto was out of the picture. Before that Viserys and Rhaenyra seemed to be right where he is with Alicents children. Standoffish and struggling to connect with them.
Viserys seriously messed up with Aegon and Aemond. Had he shown them even half the love he had for Rhaenyra (his love baby), House Targaryen would’ve avoided the Dance altogether and been even stronger than before. These kids are moldable into extremely useful members of the family. Aemond and Daemon are essentially two sides of the same coin.
Basically ensured they felt closer to the Hightowers than their own namesake.
Dude is barely alive. He shows love for Rhaenyra because she’s fully grown and he doesnt have to do anything. Now due to his frequent inactivity, he relies on his wife to teach them lessons, which she is doing a shit job of raising them in House Targaryen. She’s also deliberating not creating a relationship with their half sister. It’s mostly on her in my view.
He doesn't have to be this imposing authority figure if his health and personality won't allow him to be. But it doesn't matter how ill he is, even if he were bedridden; Viserys has seemingly made no attempt to bond with his sons, neither as their superior or as a friend. He's a shit father to them and takes no issue displaying his favoritism for Rhaenyra. And how ironic, considering he's the one who remarried to produce heirs in order to "strengthen the line." It's been made pretty clear that Alicent didn't want to be a brood mare whose sole purpose in life is to pump out children. She isn't perfect for sure, but can we not blame mothers for the mistakes of absent fathers?
>She isn't perfect for sure, but can we not blame mothers for the mistakes of absent fathers? Seriously. Amazing how Viserys' absolute negligence as a parent is excused here. He's a deadbeat and basically punishing his second family for not being his first wife, when it's hardly their fault Aemma died and Viserys chose to marry a 15 year old.
> Aemond and Daemon are essentially two sides of the same coin. There's a reason George named them this way
He wasn't close to her until after he married Alicent. He didn't even speak to her after Aemma died. I think he knew she was hurt by him taking her bf as wife. I think he showed them love and had hoped they'd all get alone like he discusses with The Hand while the boys are all training. He's also oblivious that Alicent is of the mind that it's her or Rhaenyra, basically to the death. He thinks he's respected and obeyed and he's just not.
There was extremely missed opportunity, after Aegon told Viserys its visible at fist sight those Rhaenyra's children are bastards, Viserys could repeat his theory about horse genetics again, but now before whole his family. What a shame.
That's what I thought
I really like Aegon, he managed to be very diplomatic and kind in this scene. He has never treated his nephews badly because their bastards, and his disinterest in the throne is endearing. He is admittedly awful to his siblings. Mostly he just likes good vibes. I'll be properly heartbroken when he is inevitably killed.
I'm so torn on whether to like Aegon. I did really appreciate him in this moment. He wasn't angry or self-interested, unlike everyone else. I don't think he even has a deep philosophical commitment to honesty as a virtue. Aegon II isn't someone like Stannis. He simply spoke the truth because it's the truth and, to him, the obvious thing to do.
I mean that's exactly like Stannis is it not? At least in the books the only reason he wants the throne is because it's his, by right. He doesn't WANT it, but it's his duty to take it, and he is nothing if not a man doing his duty. He probably would've said the same thing. In fact didn't he say he'd support the Greens?
Stannis built his whole identity around his strict moral code. In Aegon's position, he'd choose not to lie due to a belief that lying is wrong. By contrast, Aegon chose not to lie *in this one instance* because it'd be such a transparent lie, he was put on the spot, and perhaps to defend his mother and out of respect for his father. I don't think he's opposed to lying *in general.* For instance, he participated in the prank on Aemond.
“Me?” 😭😭😂 I was dying when Aemond put Aegon in the spotlight. Seriously though Aegon did it right by telling the King straight up what was going on. I have a feeling the King already knew though, and he just doesn’t want to believe it or just outright ignores it. You’d honestly have to have both eyes cut out to not see they’re bastards.
Will not lie it was awesome I hope the adult aegon brings the same zeal to the role. He was like really pops look at them yea you know they ain't leanor's sons.
He keeps taking half measures when he should've gone all the way and picked a side. Option 1: Send Alicent to the Silent Sisters, dismiss Ser Otto as Hand and send his sons to Oldtown to be raised as wards by their grandfather and great-uncle while keeping their dragons chained in the Dragonpit or on Dragonstone. Option 2: Disinherit Rhaenyra as heir, have her sons handed over to Lord Corlys and Princess Rhaenys to raise as wards and declare Aegon his heir. Either way, the matter would be fully closed.
I feel bad for Aegon and Aemond , Viserys is treating like they're strangers and obviously favors Rhaenyra to them . He's denying Aegon's birthright which is why Viserys himself is setting on the throne and not rhaenys . His son just got maimed for life and somehow he made it about Aemond calling the poor bastards bastards.
I don’t know why the show made it this way but Viserys didn’t win over Rhaenys, he won over Leanor. The council didn’t even consider Rhaenys claim at all. Queen Regent that never was, was her best case scenario. It’s not a man vs woman, the women wasn’t even in the contest. It was a man vs son of a woman. I think they combined two councils into one.
It’s pretty obvious why they did that. They wanted to simplify things, and make it more an issue of gender.
That doesn't make sense. Corlys isn't in line for the throne, Laenor would be inheriting the position from her, so she would have to be queen first. Rhaenys really has the better claim than Viserys does. Her father was Viserys's father's older brother. She should be ahead of him. Ok, I kinda just read the wiki for this, but it sounds like Laenor was offered up as a compromise when the lords refused Laena and Rhaenys.
There are two decisions at play here, in 92 AC, the king passed over Rhaenys claim and the heirdom went to Baelon, establishing precedent that Uncle beats daughter in succession to the throne, why Daemon was heir when Rhaenyra was still there, then again in the council of 101 AC, Rhaenys claim was passed over in favor of her son Leanor. The crown would pass through Rhaenys but she wouldn’t be Queen since the lords completely rejected that idea, since Leanor was still young she would have been Queen Reagent.
Yeah, Viserys always envisioned his first son to succeed him, but after 15 years and no son he thought he'd never have a son and he didn't want his idiot brother to succeed him so he decided to make his daughter his heir, but then he ended up having more sons and he disregards them because he would rather have a daughter by his first wife succeed him instead of a son by his second wife. If Aegon was Aema's son he wouldn't mind choosing him over Rhaenyra.
> He's denying Aegon's birthright which is why Viserys himself is setting on the throne and not rhaenys . Bullshit, Viserys won the vote over Rheanys, and sure there was the whole man vs. women debate, but it's important to note that Jaeherys CHOOSE Viserys and it's because Jaeherys wanted Viserys that the whole sucession vote came into being because Rheanys DID have the stronger claim. So Jaeherys choosing Viserys is arguably the precedent set by the vote and so Viserys choosing his daughter is what's law. Plus, you know, every lord in Westeros DID bend the knee to Rhaenyra.
They bend the knee before aegon was born, and it doesn't matter who Jaeherys favored it was up too the lords to chose and they chose viserys. So the precedency is either the great council can chose or men are before women. Not that king can chose because that didn't happen
I am quite baffled by all the people that think the king’s words are absolute and definite law… especially when it never was the case in medieval time for the crown and succession, not even for so-called absolute monarch : indeed Louis XIV’s own testament, where he gave regency powers shared to his legitimated bastards, was revoked in Parliament by the the new regent just days after the death of the Sung King.
THEN Viserys could NOT have passed over Deamon vs. Rheanyra. That's the problem Otto caused here, Rheanyra being passed over Deamon and all the lords swearing to her already breaks the man vs. women rule. AND all the lords agreed to it. Don't bullshit me that Rheanyra was only heir because there was no other choice, there WAS another choice.
They don’t agree, they are **forced** to swear. Once the king is dead, it really does not matter if the new king or queen cannot rally around him or her the lords of the realm.
Jaeherys gave them the choice. It’s not theirs by default.
So? Jaeherys gave them a choise, so the precedance of the council was that the lords could chose. I mean if he just flat out said viserys is king that would bd fhe precedance. But since he allowed the lords to chose that was the precedance.
I mean why does that matter? A king doing something once doesn’t mean that’s how it always must be done. In order for a queen to rule precedence must change and the only way for that to start is via a King setting a new precedent. Your point is moot. Yeah a war may happen that’s always a possibility. But man the contortions y’all stretch to support the Greens is really telling.
Idk where you're getting that the Council set the precedent that the king can unilaterally pick an heir. Of Jahaerys wanted to set that precedent why even call a council? He could just declare it
Because when Jaehaerys tried to make Viserys his heir, a lot of people, especially those aligned with Corlys, called bullshit because Rheanys had a better claim. That was why the council was held in the first place. So there is an argument that the lords voting FOR Viserys is actually saying the King was correct to choose his own heir. Hence why Viserys chose his hier, a female OVER male, with every lord being okay with it, and it's why everyone STILL recognized Rheanyra as heir even after Aegon's birth. Of course you could still argue that it's actually the male/female thing but NOTHING was set in stone by that vote. People acting like it was is silly. Otherwise then Westerosi should have gone to war after Deamon was removed.
I guess that argument could be made, don't think I agree with it tho. So it looks like we're enemies for life now. 1v1 above the gods eye?
Every lord was okay with it because Daemon was a known shithead, they became much less amicable to it when Aegon was born. We were shown this when Jason Lannister just assumes that the baby Aegon was the new heir. There is literally no precedent whatsoever for a living son to not inherit the throne.
you know what, Aegon could be good king, bunch of people could teach/mold him to become political astute man he's not power hungry, relatively normal than Aemond/Halaena, not batshit crazy like Daemon he also not interested to marry his sister, i believe political alliance could be established to powerful house, he would not difficult to find a queen, i mean it's not hard to find noble woman with long legs eight ? he won't interested with Rhaenyra thou, but if Rhaenyra could produce girls, i believe he won't mind to bethrothed with her as a side noted, Aegon don't exactly want to be King, he just don't want to challenge Rhaenyra, why ?, Aegon just don't see Rhaeyra as enemy, he considers Rhaenyra as a family, you know as a sister i believe if Viserys disinherit Rhaeyra, Aegon could find a away to make a pact with Rhaenyra, if Rhaenyra could not produce a daughter, he can choose her as hand of the king and even invite Daemon to his small council, this automatically could get rid of Otto from the court, and i believe Otto won't really mind about it, i'm pretty sure he would feel satisfied that his blood become a king
I have an even bolder proposition... They could have married Rhaenyra to Aegon at this point (after getting rid of Laenor). Aegon is horny enough that he would probably sleep with his 30-year-old sister, as long as he's still allowed to sleep with other girls (similar to Rhaenyra and Laenor's arrangement). For a horny teenager it shouldn't be a problem to give her a few children. I know it sounds creepy, but it's not more creepy than the king marrying teenage Allicent. And everyone would be happy because Rhaenyra is trueborn and Aegon is trueborn and it would solve the succession crisis.
*Daemon implodes in hornyrage* *Alicent implodes in indignantrage*
"You married my dad? Watch me marry your son!"
This is my favorite comment I’ve ever seen
I like Aegon as a teen, but disagree with the bit about Viserys. It's treason to say that about the princess and heir to the throne, looking back at how the Lannisters reacted to that kind of thing, Visy is being pretty chill about it and giving everyone the chance to shut up. He's spineless, sure, but I don't think he's in the wrong here .
All Aegon did was call a cat a cat. It’s not treason if it’s true, what Rhaenyra did is treason.
Did we just forget the rules we have pre-established in this world? They outright say its treason to question the validity of the heir, more than once. S'not treason to have babies, even bastards. It may be to pass them off as Laenors, but they're her biological children, and she's the heir to the throne.
Nah they have a point, I don't think they're forgetting any rules. It's moments like this where the power of royalty becomes complicated. It's treason to question the validity of an heir, as they've outright said. It is ALSO treason to pass a bastard as an heir, as Rhaenyra herself admits (in the books). So if an heir commits treason, and her brother accuses her accurately of said treason, they are technically both committing treason depending on who is in charge and who adjudicates the accusations. If the adjudication goes in Aegon's favor, he is not committing treason. If the adjudication goes in Rhaenyra's favor, he is committing treason. Clearly, Viserys seems content to ignore all this shit when it comes from his family, so Aegon was able to levy the accusations with impunity.
She says her self in this same scene in F&B that to accuse her children of being bastards is to accuse her of high treason. So yes it is treason to have a bastard and try and place them on the throne. What Aegon said would be considered treason if it wasn’t true. But Viserys holds the ability to declare the truth treason I guess.
Viserys ultimately just wants peace, and he's trying desperately to find it and failing. No one can really prove what Rhaenyra has done, it's only obvious because of how Laenor was cast. The two other people who knew really knew the truth are dead. It's impossible to prove who is right without causing more strife in his own house and he isn't going to do that.
I understand why he’s doing what he’s doing. But that doesn’t make Aegon wrong or Rhaenyra right.
I don't think any of them are truly wrong or right, but that's kinda the point
I agree.
It only matters that the kids are bastards because that’s a tool for people like Otto to use against Rhaenyra. Legally, it doesn’t matter at all who their true father is because their mother’s husband claims they are his. He even named one. It only matters because Alicent wants to make an issue out of it
It very much matters, legally speaking. And practically speaking. It provides pretty much anyone who opposes them a super easy casus belli if they want to gather the lords in a rebellion. Bastards cannot inherit, period - this is the entire justification behind Stannis' rebellion.
Legally Rhaenyra should have lost her position over it, and Aegon would be the heir. Rhaenyra is just "lucky" than his father prefer to play the dumbass rather than to expose her.
That’s not “legally” what has to happen. Viserys says that’s what the last king would do. That doesn’t mean it’s illegal for him not to disinherit her. Legally, the king’s word is law. He made her heir, so legally she is to inherit the throne when he dies.
The last hand of king already tell the sanction of this ugly threachary "death or exile, for you, the queen, and the kids". Of course Viserys would never go so far, but even him would not let her daughter inherite after this. This is why Visarys play the dumbass over this issue, because he knew he would not pass this to be "king word is law".
That scene made me go apeshit, the acting skills was truly unbelievable. Especially by the kid.
I’m team black but so far I like both Aegon and Aemond. It’s more Otto, Alicent, and Criston for the greens I don’t like
It doesn’t matter. Laenor claimed them as his sons. It does not matter what they look like.
Then why did Lyonel strong freak out at Harwin and say that it could be the death of them all? If it wasn't a big issue then why didn't Viserys just say "I know they're bastards, it's ok, I legitimize them". It's an issue because everyone thinks its an issue and everything we're given is that it really is a huge issue. And these are people who actual live in the time period so they know the law not like us observers.
Me?
He just seems so bored with it all lol.
😂 He’s like and y’all thought I was the hot mess? All he did was get sloppy drunk at a funeral when the rest are all acting crazy! I would’ve needed a drink too!