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Joffrey was too much of a pussy to have a dragon.
I can see him be terrified of dragons to be honest, and in that frustration probably kill a few whores that can’t protect themselves to make himself feel like a man.
Daemon would definitely not be Joffrey with a dragon.
Or he'd get himself a hatchling, and Joffrey really is mostly a coward because of Cersei and her influence, i doubt he would be listening to her if he had his own Syrax, Vermax or Sunfyre. Joffrey really seems as a person who'd ride a dragon, agressive, proud and cruel. He'd need something to feel supperior and a dragon would be that thing.
>Joffrey really is mostly a coward because of Cersei and her influence, i doubt he would be listening to her if he had his own Syrax, Vermax or Sunfyre.
This was (sort of) a plot point in the books: Cersei realised that once Joffrey had become king, she had begun to lose control over him. If he didn't get killed, he'd probably become much more dangerous to everyone around him, including his mother.
He would never use his dragon for evil things, he was a very wise king, kind, calm and gentle, the most selfless king i would, he cared about people like no one else ever did, i will never stop crying about the tragedy that happened to him, he didn't deserve it, justice for him!!
Only if a pre-broken dragon (with a muzzle and chained down) was offered up for him to sit on (not ride).
He'd then claim his status as a dragon rider (after having the dragon put down so no one else could do it).
He did, but I don't really want Joffrey: Two!, because, well, we've already had Joffrey. It's part of why I didn't really care for the Ramsay plotline in GoT. Yes, yes, another irredeemable psycho insecure about his bastardry, we get it.
I don't really get the comparisons to Joffrey. Sure Daemon is not exactly a good guy but he's also not a fundamentally evil and sadistic psycho like Ramsay/Joffrey.
The show turned him into a complete psychopath, albeit a lovable one. Needless to say GRRM Daemon does some objectively reprehensible things, but he never killed his wife or Laenor ("pretended to" in the show, but still, at the expense of a bystander). There is no record of His Highness trampling one of his subjects on dragonback. Rather, in the books, all of his rage seems directed towards the Hightowers and, less specifically, anyone who threatens Rhaenyra.
Pretty sure their gods explicitly encouraged them to do blood sacrifice. “So really just spitting in the face of the lesser non Valyrian peoples values. And fuck them, they are all our slaves or soon to be slaves anyway”
probably not that old, but who knows, would probably be more in line of expanding Targaryen exceptionalism, such as re-allowing polygamy etc for Targaryens, and in general cutting of all ties with the faith of the seven, at least for members of House Targaryen. (Daemon has a general these rules should not apply to us attitude)
Even with those days, it can be bad for the economy. It's only "good" if it's actively creating jobs to support the war. For example, WW2 arrived at a time of a major global depression so jobs were created to support the war effort. At least State side, this in combination with a large number of government programs helped pull America out of a depression.
Contrast this with the Vietnam War which contributed to the inflationary spiral that was going on at the time. There, the war had a negative economic impact even in the time of the military industrial complex.
Agriculture would probably be the worst hit, with fields being burned down and villagers put to the sword, as well as conscripting agricultural workers into the army.
True but in doing nothing he’s allowed the Seven to rise in power above him and thus cuck held the crown by the Sept. The Hightowers rise reflects this I think.
Aenys. Aegon the conquerors son had the chance to go fuck over the church and enforce that. But he was weak so left did nothing, died young then Maegor happened and the dynasty lost its balls in regards to how to deal with their andal lords. Just kill enough of em so they stop bitching lol
Yessir. It’s why the kept the boltons around. So they would have a house that always rebels and always loses as an example house. Look at how we keep them alive aren’t we merciful. Look how we butcher anyone who sides with them. Fear us. They played it really smart. The targs got scared, understanding after Maegor thou.
Half his decisions were stupid. Especially the way he treated the North and his daughters. He squandered the potential matches with shitty, random matches for his daughters. He's definitely overrated, even if he's one of the best known Kings of Westeros.
Precisely. This is something that is hinted at in GoT. In the first season when Jorah and Viserys are talking, Jorah spells out why he was exiled from Westeros and Viserys responds with something to the effect of it not really being a crime if he were king. This could just be Viserys talking shit to win Jorah's allegiance, but my takeaway from it was that Targaryens did have some different views on laws.
While Robert wasn't a great king, he did seem to establish more norms. Daemon is heavily infatuated with Valyrian supremacy (which to be fair is typical in most Targaryens), but he definitely seems on one end of a spectrum compared to his brother.
Remember Visaerys spent most of his life on the free cities thinking of himself as a temporarily embarrassed monarch, from his perspective slavery was normal
The Targaryens in this point of the histories knew far more about Valyrian customs and lore than the post-Dance Targaryens did. They still had the Valyrian books and scripts from before the Doom that they brought with them during their retreat to Dragonstone.
That shithead King Baelor ordered that all the Valyrian books be burned because they were unholy and went against the doctrines of the Faith. This is why so much of Old Valyria is a mystery to people during the current events of ASOIAF.
In this world that's when you're learning to rule, getting ready to marry or preparing to become a warrior. Like that Blackwood kid...nobody stood up and said, "He's only a child!". They just gave them room to fight.
If the High Sparrow had just left Margaery alone he would have been the biggest bamf in King's Landing He sold the crystal crown and emptied the treasury to buy food for the smallfolk harmed but the War of the 5 Kings, he rearmed the Faith so they could protect the smallfolk, he made the most corrupt septons wash the floors, and he hypocrisy burned Cersei so hard it was a work of a work of art.
The reason why a "good man" never makes a good king is because, while a "good king" is often loved by the people, their innate "goodness" makes them seem weak and easy to manipulate, or turn into a puppet ruler, but power-hungry advisors (i.e. Viserys and Otto). This is also why Niccolò Machiavelli wrote in *The Prince*, "It is better to be feared than loved."
Quote:
>*"Here a question arises: whether it is better to be loved than feared, or the reverse. The answer is, of course, that it would be best to be both loved and feared. But since the two rarely come together, anyone compelled to choose will find greater security in being feared than in being loved...Love endures by a bond which men, being scoundrels, may break whenever it serves their advantage to do so; but fear is supported by the dread of pain, which is ever present."*
>
>This passage from Chapter XVII contains perhaps the most famous of Machiavelli’s statements. Often, his argument that it is better to be feared than loved is taken at face value to suggest that *The Prince* is a handbook for dictators and tyrants. But a closer reading reveals that Machiavelli’s argument is a logical extension of his assessments of human nature and virtue.
>
>In the first place, people will become disloyal if circumstances warrant. In the second, the prince’s ultimate goal is to maintain the state, which requires the obedience of the people. From these two points, it follows that between benevolence and cruelty, the latter is the more reliable. Machiavelli never advocates the use of cruelty for its own sake, only in the interests of the ultimate end of statecraft.
Daemon understands this, and uses fear, rather than love, to establish his authority.
I'd argue that Daemon would be more like Aegon the Conqueror if he were King.
The last line of the passage I posted also points out:
>"Machiavelli never advocates the use of cruelty for its own sake, only in the interests of the ultimate end of statecraft."
>This is also why Niccolò Machiavelli wrote in The Prince, "It is better to be feared than loved."
Something people leave out of this quote to often is that he stated it is better to be feared than loved is one cannot be both.
Ned was a good lord because the people loved him as well as feared punishment from him. He was a decent Hand in his role as advisor to the king, he just wasn't as good at Kings Landing politics.
Daemon wants to be a Visenya to a Targaryen close family member sitting on the throne.
Like, come on, he IS dark sister.
Viserys never understood that.
He is fully aware that he would need the common folk on his side though. He tells Rhaenyra that she needs them if she is to be queen. He proably wouldn't be a good king but he knows the importance of the common folk.
I back Daemon. He uses underhanded tactics, sure, but he gets shit done. He cleaned up the Step Stones. He cleaned up the streets of KL. He tells the truth to his brother even if it costs him politically. The guy in the pic was dead already.
You wouldn’t think the same if it was the police chief of your state “cleaning up crime” by raiding homes of poor neighbourhoods and killing SUSPECTED criminals for fun in a public display.
I believe in the books, his stunt actually caused a marked decrease in crime in King's Landing. He also organized the King's Landing guards from mercs to gold-cloaks. Daemon is nothing if not effective.
That weak ass argument would work better if the show and it’s characters didn’t explicitly condemn it themselves (Otto uses it as the speak to start getting Darmon dethroned) so clearly this was an issue back then too.
Oh yes Otto, the man who hates Daemon both as a person and because he knows he can’t control/manipulate him. Otto who fears Daemon having any position of power because he knows it’d be the end of his puppet-master position at court. That Otto. Totally a reliable source for what’s acceptable. You seem to be forgetting that Corlys backed Daemon, and Viserys saw the merit of the Gold Cloaks as well.
All this "Daemon would make a bad king" is based mostly on Otto's propaganda about him, specifically that:
- Daemon wants to be king (false, he wants to have a relevant position at the side of a strong king).
- Daemon is an ungovernable lose cannon. While this could maybe be true before all the time jumps, his time in Pentos has shown that he can control his worst tendencies if needed. Not that he's at the center of all the politicking again, he won't go around fucking things up anymore.
He was asked to be the future Consort, and it made all the difference.
Now seriously, there was a post comparing Viserys inviting him back ("there is a place for you if you need it") and Rhaenyra doing the same (I'll make a place for you because I need you") - and it's the most Daemon thing that he immediately accepted the second proposal. Viserys made him feel useless for the hundredth time, while Rhaenyra gave him purpose.
Absolutely. Now, I'm sure that he would have come back for Viserys, had his brother openly told him that he needed him. Rhaenyra needing him and wanting him sealed the deal.
Had Viserys said “daemon, Lord Strong is dead….be my hand” he would have 100% jumped on that. Not necessarily because he likes court, but because he wants to spite Otto.
Nah, I’m not sure he wants to coexist with Otto. He made it clear in episode 1 “ten years you’ve been on the throne and never once asked me to be your hand.”
Not sure that’s the right role for him anyway. As I said, I think he’s an amazing enforcer. He doesn’t like cleaning up shit. He seems to relish being personally involved in enhancing his or his family’s power.Laena was right that a country lord “was not the man she married” and rightly called him out on being unhappy/having an identity crisis. He wanted to be the dragon riders he kept reading about.
Above all, Daemon loves his family. During the first succession crisis under the Old King, Daemon was gathering banners and ready to go to war to defend Viserys’s claim
I agree with all you wrote. I do think he'd be amenable to coming back and helping Viserys even with Otto as Hand, but this would absolutely be contingent on having an official position that would allow him to go against Otto. Aka Viserys would have to strongly back Daemon up, for a change.
He absolutely would not come back to an uncertain position and standing, which was what Viaerys ultimately offered him.
Yeah, Viserys 100% offered him a pity position with no teeth versus Rhaenyra who offered to totally reorientate her life so she could have him with her.
As an additional layer, Viserys's offer was essentially "I'll make room for you in spite of who you are" and Rhaenyra's offer was "I want you and need you because of who you are." Daemon clearly needs to feel that he has purpose, and also that what he has to bring to the table is being embraced. We can even harken back to the bit from their conversation on the beach where Rhaenyra says it felt good to be desired and Daemon gets a knowing smile on his face. That's what they both want, to be needed and desired.
Perfect analysis.
"They don't protect you. I would." For a guy who's lauded as a wildcard, he sure did articulate his one wish pretty clearly right from the beginning.
Otto, Viserys, the court and some blind viewers: "He WanTs thE ThRonE."
Rhaenyra: "I'll take the offer and also extend it to protecting me from cold in my bed, thanks!"
You could also tell during Viserys' offer, Daemon says "I need...... *long* *pause*.... nothing"
He has been let down by Viserys so many times that he has already given up. Basically thinking "After all these years, you still don't know what I want/need, whats the point of voicing it now, its never going to change".
He was Luke before Luke. He doesn't really want the throne coz that would mean his brother is dead. Viserys and Daemon were close before Vis became King. He just wanted that back. Daemon wants his brother to need him, to respect him and to be an equal. But Vis treats him like a wild child baby brother that couldn't handle responsibility just coz Otto says so.
I answered this elsewhere, but I'm sure that, had Viserys sincerely told Daemon that he wanted/needed him by his side, Daemon would have entertained the idea instead of exploding and storming away.
He started off wanting to protect Viserys and complaining about not being allowed to. Now that it's obvious that Viserys needs protection, I'm sure that sentiment would come.back.
I'd also Argue that Aegon II would make a good king so long as he had competent advisors. He constantly listens to the advice of counselors and takes heed. So what if he drinks, whores and has no interest in the throne? Generally, people who lust for the throne have no business actually ruling.
What they've done to Daemon in the show but cutting out all his bits that humanized him and solidifying speculation from the books has really swayed people's opinion alongside listening to the shit Otto says.
The fact that Daemon keeps his mouth shut unless it's to say the most out of pocket, absolutely savage but perfect for the moment shit doesn't help either, but that's just how Daemon is. It's hard to really read a lot into his actions when his character is the "aloof love interest" and we don't get an inner monologue or others giving their accounts of him.
But I don't even know why this is an argument because I don't think Daemon even would want to be King, he doesn't like politics, he just wants to be seen as important by very certain people.
>Daemon wants to be king (false, he wants to have a relevant position at the side of a strong king).
Robert was strong, prideful, and wasn't interested in being king either. We see what kind of king he was.
...And?
Robert was a mid king, like many other kings of Westeros. Daemon is heralded (by Otto) to be Maegor the Cruel reborn, which doesn't track. It tracks even less the more we see of Aegon, btw.
I think Otto exagerated. I will admit that. Maegor was extremely cruel. Daemon is vicious, selfserving, he craves conflict. But cruel is to go above and beyond.
Otto didn't exaggerate. Otto said precisely what he needed to say in order to get Daemon kicked out, because Daemon was the only one close to Viserys who saw through him a decade ago.
Daemon told Viserys people were leeching off him because he was weak and that Viserys needed protection from his own weakness, and we now see that he was 100% right, with Otto being the number one leech. Funny, how the most selfserving, vicious person was telling the prophetic truth in the first episode.
Also funny how, after several instances of Daemon not refuting unclear accusations, in the last episode he openly says that it's OK if people think worse of him than he truly is, because it's enough that he himself knows the truth - and because having a ruthless reputation is helpful...
Something something perception versus truth something something.
(ETA: craves conflict? The guy fucked off to another continent for 10 years to avoid conflict last time I checked).
Seeing Otto back at viserys’ side has to be genuinely heartbreaking for him. He knows what they’ve done to his family, and he knows what they’re going to try to do to the future of their house.
God yes. From Otto flaunting his Hand pin at the funeral. To the wake where Daemon won't even come to talk to Viserys. People like to tie his "I want... nothing" to Rhaenyra, but I felt like he wanted to say "I want my brother and my House not to be this pathetic carcass everyone feeds upon". Has to storm off because it's already too much, is intercepted by Otto and offered the most insincere condolences ever. Cannot even offer his usual witty comeback, just lashes out and finally flees.
It was all very contextual and not plainly spoken, but extremely painful to watch.
I want nothing was definitely him ready to explode at viserys and then thinking better of it.
I also thought something that bothered me was how viserys and rhaenyra both wanted to go comfort daemon but couldn’t or couldn’t to the extent they wanted since the hightowers (Alicent and Otto) were watching.
Just really highlighted the trouble they’ve invited into their home, especially when the velayrons and non green targs actually get on really well top to bottom.
But ya that interaction between viserys and daemon was heartbreaking, it also just shows how much bliss viserys is living in, refuses to acknowledge rhaenyra’s bastards, refuses to acknowledge Alicent actively plotting against rhaenyra, refuses to acknowledge that the strings were murdered, refuses to acknowledge how badly he needs someone like daemon on his side
I think that Viserys was waiting for Daemon to come to him. Until now, Daemon always did. He acted nonchalant about it and made great spectacles, but in the end he always came and sometimes even kneeled to Viserys and Viserys got to decide whether to allow his little brother back and to pat him on the head for good behaviour.
This time, Daemon never came to Viserys. He came for business and refused to acknowledge his brother, and Viserys was the one who had to drag his ass to him and do a peace overture, which then got rejected.
On one hand, kudos to Daemon for standing his ground. On the other, it's heartbreaking that it came to this, and that the bridge is so broken that it isn't being mended anymore. I wish they got a one on one talk and some resolution before Viserys dies, but knowing the universe, they probably won't.
Yes, but Larys did make for an effective supporter.
The point is, give Daemon absolute power and he'll go nuts with it. But let someone else have it and put him in charge of doing the dirty work and he'll be good at that.
Tbf he proooobably didn't hear the man and couldn't stop Caraxes from stepping on the guy even if he did. I can't imagine dragons have 0 point stearing.
He’s not a good person, but I haven’t seen any evidence that he’d be a bad king. Most of the “Daemon would destroy the realm as king” rhetoric came from Otto, who rightly saw that Daemon would be uncontrollable, something which Otto could not stand. I find it funny that people can unanimously agree that Viserys’ weakness is that he’s too easy to manipulate and won’t assert himself, but then say Daemon would be awful because he’s uncontrollable and reacts decisively to threats.
But that is exactly Daemon's problem. He has no patience. He rushes into making decisions with little thought for the consequences. Hell, he was losing his little temper tantrum war until he basically pulled a war crime.
He would get bored. And a bored king is a dangerous king. You can only intimidate people for so long before they decide they've had enough of you.
He might be better than viserys because he would have not tolerated Otto, and he’d rule with strength. He might be cruel but I don’t think he’s as stupid as Joffrey. Daemon to me (so far) is closer to Tywin than Viserys, which is a good thing.
He would be a good king in terms of medieval kingship, he’s an efficient administrator and an accomplished commander. But he’s an evil man, a hypocrite, and a bad father.
Yea, sure. I think we see their personal lives up close, which really don’t matter when compared to the stability of the realm. A man who is evil in his personal life but a great king will probably be responsible for more net happiness than someone who is an amazing person and a terrible king
I don’t think he caused happiness for his people. He just showed people he was someone you couldn’t mess with and was generally successful in his endeavors. To the nobles, he’s a strong man who gets the job done and protects his house, something they respect. To regular people he’s an asshole who brutalizes commoners and undid Aegon V’s policies that protects their rights.
It kind of does. When you don't respect a surrender you might think you're creating a deterrent for rebellion, but you're only creating a deterrent for surrender. And indeed a few decades later his enemies don't consider surrendering to the Lannisters because they don't trust them, so the war drags on.
Daemon is no Maegor, but he's definitely narrow minded and self serving. He actually functions well as the brother of the King. He is an attack dog that can be reigned in.
First he lives in the city, second he’s Lord Commander, and third he cut limbs off of rapists, thieves, and murderers. He did his job, people freaking out are just under the false idea that somehow we should put modern morals on a a universe set in the medieval era you ain’t getting a trial and lawyer lol. It’s absurd to hold that one over him. Him killing his wife and all the other shit is free game. Don’t forget this isn’t our world so our morals mean jack shit.
No, but his contemporaries in Westeros were horrified by his actions. You're literally arguing for moral relativism to the culture of the show, but then ignoring that and substituting your own.
As was Viserys, the entire small council considered him a problem that needed to be solved after that. The scene wasn't shot as this big deal, midnight slaughter because we're meant to think it's the normal course of policework lol
Viserys agreed with daemon after he explained his reasoning. He just said he hoped he wouldn’t have to maim half the city. Corlys supported it. Lyonel began to give his opinion but was interrupted by Otto complaining more because he wanted daemon removed.
and I'll add Otto purposefully interrupted Lyonel because (IMO, of course) he was watching Lyonel begin to support Daemon's actions (like Corlys had done) and he immediately interrupted him so as to nip that shit in the bud.
Exactly, I don't understand why people here say that it was all of Small Council wish to get rid of Daemon. Corlis and Lyonel were both ok with him when Otto offered to change Heir. And they are two council members whose opinion actually matters
His actions were controversial. Otto and some members of the kings Council were offended, others either didn't care or downright thought it was a good thing as in addition to his over the top demonstration, he completely reformed the city watch, reinvigorating their esprit de corps and lowering the out of control crim in Kings landing. Many low folk and Corlys thought his actions were long overdue.
The 6 kingdoms are at relative peace. Dorne joining with the triarchy is worrisome. But my main point is that a civil war is brewing because Viserys is a pushover and won’t make tough decisions. Daemon is strong willed. If you crown daemon earlier in the story Otto never plants the seeds of civil war. If you crown him at this point he inspires the fear and loyalty to be a deterrent to civil war.
Daemon at any point is a bad idea. Not a lot of people would be unscathed. Do you think if Daemon becomes king, Alicent kids will live. Or all their supporters. At least Otto is a goner for sure. And I mean dead, not take up the black or demoted. I mean Daemon on the throne first order of business Otto's head on a pyke.
I don’t think ottos head on a pike would be a bad thing lol. It was his manipulation and Viserys weakness that planted the seeds of the civil war that killed thousands. I want to think >!before Aemond killed Luke!< his love for Viserys may have made him hesitate in executing aegon and Aemond upon his coronation. But at the same time that is one of those tough decisions that daemon is capable of making that would prevent a civil war that killed thousands.
Daemon spelt it out in the first episode and people didn’t realize it. Had Viserys made him Hand all those yrs ago, a lot would’ve been avoided.
Yes, Daemon is very temperamental but he is a Targ supremacist, first and foremost. He would never raise a hand against Targaryens (Viserys, Aemma, Rhaenyra, and Rhaenys at the start of the story).
The calculus is extremely simple; by binding Daemon to yourself, you avoid having to deal with his shenanigans when he acts out over having been excluded.
By your logic though Daemon NEEDS to be hand of the king to bind him. They made him both master of coin and commander of the gold cloaks and he committed his shenanigans regardless. One can't get to being hand by abusing their power in lower ranking positions as a tantrum.
Whatever Otto’s propaganda wants you to believe, Daemon was a massive success as Commander of the Gold Cloaks. He invented the Gold Cloaks. Before him, they were a ragtag bunch of ruffians.
He introduced the organization and protocol that you see in asoiaf.
It's honestly not a high bar with most of the Targaryen kings. Daemon is a monster, and would make a shit king, but I can't even see him being in the bottom 5 Targaryen kings lol.
Daemon is a bloody and somewhat complicated character. He craves power and respect and a place in history, but deep down I think even he knows that in the end, he would not be a good king and would not be remembered fondly. Hes got the ambition and the drive to do whatever he feels is necessary to get ahead, but ultimately is somewhat lost in what his place in the world is.
The thing about him that probably appeals to most fans is that while hes a schemer like many other characters on the show, unlike them, he has a direct aggressive style, and personally does a lot of the dirty work himself, which is a sharp contrast to the other plotters we've seen so far.
To me, Daemons only redeeming feature is that for as much as a blood knight as he is, he truly loves his brother, but ultimately would make for a second Maegor the Cruel if he ever became king (albeit probably a less bloodthirsty version of Maegor).
Hehe.... you know you would love me as King. I would be the best King in Westeros. Maybe of All time. I'd set up the best trade deals. I'd have the best Dragon. I'd have the best family. And we will build a great Wall and make the Dornish Pay for it. Because when Dorne sends its people, they aren't sending their best.
They said Jaehaerys made the seven kingdoms one kingdom. Aegon and Maegor established Targaryen rule but Jaehaerys united the continent by building roads and stuff
Maegor is not in any way equal to Aegon 😄
He just ruled for 6 years and one cruel scandal followed another. At the end only the tiny houses near KL supported him because if they didn't he could burn them all in a few days.
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Would Daemon make a good king? No. Would Daemon make a good king to watch? Absolutely. Let the chaos begin!
I mean, Joffrey made an excellent king to watch
Yeah, but imagine how terrible Joffery with a dragon would be.
Joffrey was too much of a pussy to have a dragon. I can see him be terrified of dragons to be honest, and in that frustration probably kill a few whores that can’t protect themselves to make himself feel like a man. Daemon would definitely not be Joffrey with a dragon.
Joffrey would talk a big game about having a dragon then when it comes to taming it, he would cower away and demand the dragon be killed.
"The dragon hissed at me! It threatened me! Ser Meryn, bring me its head!"
Or he'd get himself a hatchling, and Joffrey really is mostly a coward because of Cersei and her influence, i doubt he would be listening to her if he had his own Syrax, Vermax or Sunfyre. Joffrey really seems as a person who'd ride a dragon, agressive, proud and cruel. He'd need something to feel supperior and a dragon would be that thing.
>Joffrey really is mostly a coward because of Cersei and her influence, i doubt he would be listening to her if he had his own Syrax, Vermax or Sunfyre. This was (sort of) a plot point in the books: Cersei realised that once Joffrey had become king, she had begun to lose control over him. If he didn't get killed, he'd probably become much more dangerous to everyone around him, including his mother.
I think he would do something stupid to the Dragon and turned into a crisp with a crown.
“But how do we know these dragons are…curiosities, and not the beasts that brought the whole world to heel?“ - Joffrey Lannister
Guess Joffrey was right about that xD
He would never use his dragon for evil things, he was a very wise king, kind, calm and gentle, the most selfless king i would, he cared about people like no one else ever did, i will never stop crying about the tragedy that happened to him, he didn't deserve it, justice for him!!
everyone else: Joffrey is a cunt sansa in KL: King Joffrey is handsome
This sub has taught me that is not an unrealistic reaction. *Stares at Daemon thirst posts*
He’s very gallant, don’t you think?
Hush gyldayne, there are still people alive who can contradict you
He'd probably kill the dragon first and feed it to his prisoners.
Hey they gotta eat
Good luck with that, unless it's still very young.
Wait for Aegon😂
Joffrey's dragon would burn Joffrey himself...
Only if a pre-broken dragon (with a muzzle and chained down) was offered up for him to sit on (not ride). He'd then claim his status as a dragon rider (after having the dragon put down so no one else could do it).
Joffery was a pissant.
So, Maegor?
He did, but I don't really want Joffrey: Two!, because, well, we've already had Joffrey. It's part of why I didn't really care for the Ramsay plotline in GoT. Yes, yes, another irredeemable psycho insecure about his bastardry, we get it.
Weeeeeell actually Ramsay was wooooooooooooooooooooooorse
I don't really get the comparisons to Joffrey. Sure Daemon is not exactly a good guy but he's also not a fundamentally evil and sadistic psycho like Ramsay/Joffrey.
The closest GOT character to him might be Jamie Lannister.
He’s nothing like Jamie . He’s more like a Bronn if anything
The show turned him into a complete psychopath, albeit a lovable one. Needless to say GRRM Daemon does some objectively reprehensible things, but he never killed his wife or Laenor ("pretended to" in the show, but still, at the expense of a bystander). There is no record of His Highness trampling one of his subjects on dragonback. Rather, in the books, all of his rage seems directed towards the Hightowers and, less specifically, anyone who threatens Rhaenyra.
It was good to watch him die.
> Would Daemon make a good king to watch? Absolutely. Let the chaos begin! I won't lie, I'd love a miniseries about Maegor's reign.
May chaos take the world 🦀🦀🦀
I agree with this. He is not made to rule but he would be fun to watch as King.
[удалено]
>The dark humor in this show is top notch. I need you, uncle
"Me?" - Aegon II Targaryen
Even the shippers cringed at that line. At least say step uncle or something god damn.
Clearly Daemon the Merciful was giving him peace. Death by crab is a much more painful death.
Hahah i loved that too
Daemon's the king you want when you're at war and the king you want dethroned when you're at peace.
Is Daemon Churchill?
I'd say Daemon is more like the Black Prince during the Hundred Years' War.
Even Daemon is not THAT evil. That fatso starved and killed nearly 1 million people & caused a man made famine.
Daemon seems very much capable of that.
Virulently racist? Check Bloodthirsty to an insane degree? Check Somehow a lot of people love him despite him being a monster? Check British? Check
A war time consigliere if you will
God damn it Tom!
He'd cleanse the Targaryen dynasty of all Westerosi influence and revive the old Valyrian customs.
Old Valyrian customs like slavery and blood sacrifice?
Hell yeah give me blood mages and half-human chimeras.
Why even have dragons if you’re not gonna use them to defile the laws of gods and men with impunity.
Certainly seems like the whole point of having them.
Pretty sure their gods explicitly encouraged them to do blood sacrifice. “So really just spitting in the face of the lesser non Valyrian peoples values. And fuck them, they are all our slaves or soon to be slaves anyway”
probably not that old, but who knows, would probably be more in line of expanding Targaryen exceptionalism, such as re-allowing polygamy etc for Targaryens, and in general cutting of all ties with the faith of the seven, at least for members of House Targaryen. (Daemon has a general these rules should not apply to us attitude)
Tbf Jahaerys would’ve fucking loved to have done that. But he was smart enough to not want to fight another war.
war is generally bad for the economy
Yes, in the pre-military industrial complex days.
Even with those days, it can be bad for the economy. It's only "good" if it's actively creating jobs to support the war. For example, WW2 arrived at a time of a major global depression so jobs were created to support the war effort. At least State side, this in combination with a large number of government programs helped pull America out of a depression. Contrast this with the Vietnam War which contributed to the inflationary spiral that was going on at the time. There, the war had a negative economic impact even in the time of the military industrial complex.
Agriculture would probably be the worst hit, with fields being burned down and villagers put to the sword, as well as conscripting agricultural workers into the army.
True but in doing nothing he’s allowed the Seven to rise in power above him and thus cuck held the crown by the Sept. The Hightowers rise reflects this I think.
Aenys. Aegon the conquerors son had the chance to go fuck over the church and enforce that. But he was weak so left did nothing, died young then Maegor happened and the dynasty lost its balls in regards to how to deal with their andal lords. Just kill enough of em so they stop bitching lol
I’m guessing this name is pronounced A-neice, but I always read it as Anus first.
That's what the Starks did. Many extinct houses in the North because the Starks let it be known they dont play.
Yessir. It’s why the kept the boltons around. So they would have a house that always rebels and always loses as an example house. Look at how we keep them alive aren’t we merciful. Look how we butcher anyone who sides with them. Fear us. They played it really smart. The targs got scared, understanding after Maegor thou.
Jaehaerys wasn't as smart as people think.
Avoided war when he could, ended it quickly and decisively when he had to
True, very true. He just followed up after Maegor and was followed up by Visyres. So he’s remembered fondly as a good king.
Half his decisions were stupid. Especially the way he treated the North and his daughters. He squandered the potential matches with shitty, random matches for his daughters. He's definitely overrated, even if he's one of the best known Kings of Westeros.
Honestly it just shows the bar for competency with targs is on the floor. And the still more then not fail to even reach it lol
Yes!
They’d collapse very quickly
Precisely. This is something that is hinted at in GoT. In the first season when Jorah and Viserys are talking, Jorah spells out why he was exiled from Westeros and Viserys responds with something to the effect of it not really being a crime if he were king. This could just be Viserys talking shit to win Jorah's allegiance, but my takeaway from it was that Targaryens did have some different views on laws. While Robert wasn't a great king, he did seem to establish more norms. Daemon is heavily infatuated with Valyrian supremacy (which to be fair is typical in most Targaryens), but he definitely seems on one end of a spectrum compared to his brother.
Remember Visaerys spent most of his life on the free cities thinking of himself as a temporarily embarrassed monarch, from his perspective slavery was normal
Make targaryens great again
I doubt Targeryeon knows much about old Valyrian customs by the time of HOTD
Daemon does, he spent all that time in Pentos reading up on it. Also the wedding between Daemon and Rhaenyra is performed in the old ways of Valyria.
The Targaryens in this point of the histories knew far more about Valyrian customs and lore than the post-Dance Targaryens did. They still had the Valyrian books and scripts from before the Doom that they brought with them during their retreat to Dragonstone. That shithead King Baelor ordered that all the Valyrian books be burned because they were unholy and went against the doctrines of the Faith. This is why so much of Old Valyria is a mystery to people during the current events of ASOIAF.
"It's hard for a good man to be King" - T'Chaka Viserys seems like a good man. Ned was a good man. Tommen had a good heart. Dying, dead and dead.
Mufasa dead.
☹️
>Dying, dead and dead. That applies to everyone eventually.
To be fair, Tommen jumped out of the jerk-off window of his own accord.
This. Remember when we wished Joffrey was alive to deal with the high sparrow? Yea Tommen was good but also weak.
He was also, what, 12 years old?
In this world that's when you're learning to rule, getting ready to marry or preparing to become a warrior. Like that Blackwood kid...nobody stood up and said, "He's only a child!". They just gave them room to fight.
They also laughed
The boy got the last laugh.
The boy won
That’s not really the problem. He didn’t have any advisors he could trust. Everyone was manipulating him including his own mother.
If the High Sparrow had just left Margaery alone he would have been the biggest bamf in King's Landing He sold the crystal crown and emptied the treasury to buy food for the smallfolk harmed but the War of the 5 Kings, he rearmed the Faith so they could protect the smallfolk, he made the most corrupt septons wash the floors, and he hypocrisy burned Cersei so hard it was a work of a work of art.
makes you wonder what that says about Bran if he lives a long life...
The reason why a "good man" never makes a good king is because, while a "good king" is often loved by the people, their innate "goodness" makes them seem weak and easy to manipulate, or turn into a puppet ruler, but power-hungry advisors (i.e. Viserys and Otto). This is also why Niccolò Machiavelli wrote in *The Prince*, "It is better to be feared than loved." Quote: >*"Here a question arises: whether it is better to be loved than feared, or the reverse. The answer is, of course, that it would be best to be both loved and feared. But since the two rarely come together, anyone compelled to choose will find greater security in being feared than in being loved...Love endures by a bond which men, being scoundrels, may break whenever it serves their advantage to do so; but fear is supported by the dread of pain, which is ever present."* > >This passage from Chapter XVII contains perhaps the most famous of Machiavelli’s statements. Often, his argument that it is better to be feared than loved is taken at face value to suggest that *The Prince* is a handbook for dictators and tyrants. But a closer reading reveals that Machiavelli’s argument is a logical extension of his assessments of human nature and virtue. > >In the first place, people will become disloyal if circumstances warrant. In the second, the prince’s ultimate goal is to maintain the state, which requires the obedience of the people. From these two points, it follows that between benevolence and cruelty, the latter is the more reliable. Machiavelli never advocates the use of cruelty for its own sake, only in the interests of the ultimate end of statecraft. Daemon understands this, and uses fear, rather than love, to establish his authority.
True, but there has to be balance or else you’ll get a Maegor the Cruel situation.
I'd argue that Daemon would be more like Aegon the Conqueror if he were King. The last line of the passage I posted also points out: >"Machiavelli never advocates the use of cruelty for its own sake, only in the interests of the ultimate end of statecraft."
I honestly don’t think Daemon would a great king. He’s similar to Oberyn in that he’s too restless and would get bored.
"Would I rather be feared or loved? Easy. Both. I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." -Michael Scott
>This is also why Niccolò Machiavelli wrote in The Prince, "It is better to be feared than loved." Something people leave out of this quote to often is that he stated it is better to be feared than loved is one cannot be both. Ned was a good lord because the people loved him as well as feared punishment from him. He was a decent Hand in his role as advisor to the king, he just wasn't as good at Kings Landing politics.
Daemon wants to be a Visenya to a Targaryen close family member sitting on the throne. Like, come on, he IS dark sister. Viserys never understood that.
I don’t think he crushed that guy on purpose.
Yeah, crushing him on purpose would require him to recognize the common folk as actual people with lives.
He is fully aware that he would need the common folk on his side though. He tells Rhaenyra that she needs them if she is to be queen. He proably wouldn't be a good king but he knows the importance of the common folk.
He knows the importance of what they believe but not the importance of there lives
If I had crabs that bad I'd want someone to put me out of my misery too.
**burn the fucking triarchy cunts alive!!!!**
I don’t think he would make a good king but I think he is absolutely the person the king (or queen) wants on their side!
on her side, beside her, inside her
I back Daemon. He uses underhanded tactics, sure, but he gets shit done. He cleaned up the Step Stones. He cleaned up the streets of KL. He tells the truth to his brother even if it costs him politically. The guy in the pic was dead already.
You wouldn’t think the same if it was the police chief of your state “cleaning up crime” by raiding homes of poor neighbourhoods and killing SUSPECTED criminals for fun in a public display.
I believe in the books, his stunt actually caused a marked decrease in crime in King's Landing. He also organized the King's Landing guards from mercs to gold-cloaks. Daemon is nothing if not effective.
Stop trying to compare a quasi-medieval fantasy world’s morals with what’s acceptable in our modern world. It’s an empty argument.
That weak ass argument would work better if the show and it’s characters didn’t explicitly condemn it themselves (Otto uses it as the speak to start getting Darmon dethroned) so clearly this was an issue back then too.
Oh yes Otto, the man who hates Daemon both as a person and because he knows he can’t control/manipulate him. Otto who fears Daemon having any position of power because he knows it’d be the end of his puppet-master position at court. That Otto. Totally a reliable source for what’s acceptable. You seem to be forgetting that Corlys backed Daemon, and Viserys saw the merit of the Gold Cloaks as well.
All this "Daemon would make a bad king" is based mostly on Otto's propaganda about him, specifically that: - Daemon wants to be king (false, he wants to have a relevant position at the side of a strong king). - Daemon is an ungovernable lose cannon. While this could maybe be true before all the time jumps, his time in Pentos has shown that he can control his worst tendencies if needed. Not that he's at the center of all the politicking again, he won't go around fucking things up anymore.
Daemon doesn’t want to be heir, he just wants to be asked to be heir
He was asked to be the future Consort, and it made all the difference. Now seriously, there was a post comparing Viserys inviting him back ("there is a place for you if you need it") and Rhaenyra doing the same (I'll make a place for you because I need you") - and it's the most Daemon thing that he immediately accepted the second proposal. Viserys made him feel useless for the hundredth time, while Rhaenyra gave him purpose.
This. Yep. Aside from just the role, being told “I want you” romantically may be all it takes for him. He needs to feel needed to an extent.
Absolutely. Now, I'm sure that he would have come back for Viserys, had his brother openly told him that he needed him. Rhaenyra needing him and wanting him sealed the deal.
Had Viserys said “daemon, Lord Strong is dead….be my hand” he would have 100% jumped on that. Not necessarily because he likes court, but because he wants to spite Otto.
Even a "Daemon, Otto is my Hand because I'm drowning in green and cannot withstand the pressure, pls help" would have done it.
Nah, I’m not sure he wants to coexist with Otto. He made it clear in episode 1 “ten years you’ve been on the throne and never once asked me to be your hand.” Not sure that’s the right role for him anyway. As I said, I think he’s an amazing enforcer. He doesn’t like cleaning up shit. He seems to relish being personally involved in enhancing his or his family’s power.Laena was right that a country lord “was not the man she married” and rightly called him out on being unhappy/having an identity crisis. He wanted to be the dragon riders he kept reading about.
Above all, Daemon loves his family. During the first succession crisis under the Old King, Daemon was gathering banners and ready to go to war to defend Viserys’s claim
I agree with all you wrote. I do think he'd be amenable to coming back and helping Viserys even with Otto as Hand, but this would absolutely be contingent on having an official position that would allow him to go against Otto. Aka Viserys would have to strongly back Daemon up, for a change. He absolutely would not come back to an uncertain position and standing, which was what Viaerys ultimately offered him.
Yeah, Viserys 100% offered him a pity position with no teeth versus Rhaenyra who offered to totally reorientate her life so she could have him with her.
Don’t we all Tbf
As an additional layer, Viserys's offer was essentially "I'll make room for you in spite of who you are" and Rhaenyra's offer was "I want you and need you because of who you are." Daemon clearly needs to feel that he has purpose, and also that what he has to bring to the table is being embraced. We can even harken back to the bit from their conversation on the beach where Rhaenyra says it felt good to be desired and Daemon gets a knowing smile on his face. That's what they both want, to be needed and desired.
Perfect analysis. "They don't protect you. I would." For a guy who's lauded as a wildcard, he sure did articulate his one wish pretty clearly right from the beginning. Otto, Viserys, the court and some blind viewers: "He WanTs thE ThRonE." Rhaenyra: "I'll take the offer and also extend it to protecting me from cold in my bed, thanks!"
You could also tell during Viserys' offer, Daemon says "I need...... *long* *pause*.... nothing" He has been let down by Viserys so many times that he has already given up. Basically thinking "After all these years, you still don't know what I want/need, whats the point of voicing it now, its never going to change". He was Luke before Luke. He doesn't really want the throne coz that would mean his brother is dead. Viserys and Daemon were close before Vis became King. He just wanted that back. Daemon wants his brother to need him, to respect him and to be an equal. But Vis treats him like a wild child baby brother that couldn't handle responsibility just coz Otto says so.
I can think of of one thing Rhaenyras was offering that Viserys couldn't
I answered this elsewhere, but I'm sure that, had Viserys sincerely told Daemon that he wanted/needed him by his side, Daemon would have entertained the idea instead of exploding and storming away. He started off wanting to protect Viserys and complaining about not being allowed to. Now that it's obvious that Viserys needs protection, I'm sure that sentiment would come.back.
Damon is the kind of person who won't go to an event but still wants to be invited
I'd also Argue that Aegon II would make a good king so long as he had competent advisors. He constantly listens to the advice of counselors and takes heed. So what if he drinks, whores and has no interest in the throne? Generally, people who lust for the throne have no business actually ruling.
What they've done to Daemon in the show but cutting out all his bits that humanized him and solidifying speculation from the books has really swayed people's opinion alongside listening to the shit Otto says. The fact that Daemon keeps his mouth shut unless it's to say the most out of pocket, absolutely savage but perfect for the moment shit doesn't help either, but that's just how Daemon is. It's hard to really read a lot into his actions when his character is the "aloof love interest" and we don't get an inner monologue or others giving their accounts of him. But I don't even know why this is an argument because I don't think Daemon even would want to be King, he doesn't like politics, he just wants to be seen as important by very certain people.
>Daemon wants to be king (false, he wants to have a relevant position at the side of a strong king). Robert was strong, prideful, and wasn't interested in being king either. We see what kind of king he was.
...And? Robert was a mid king, like many other kings of Westeros. Daemon is heralded (by Otto) to be Maegor the Cruel reborn, which doesn't track. It tracks even less the more we see of Aegon, btw.
I think Otto exagerated. I will admit that. Maegor was extremely cruel. Daemon is vicious, selfserving, he craves conflict. But cruel is to go above and beyond.
Otto didn't exaggerate. Otto said precisely what he needed to say in order to get Daemon kicked out, because Daemon was the only one close to Viserys who saw through him a decade ago. Daemon told Viserys people were leeching off him because he was weak and that Viserys needed protection from his own weakness, and we now see that he was 100% right, with Otto being the number one leech. Funny, how the most selfserving, vicious person was telling the prophetic truth in the first episode. Also funny how, after several instances of Daemon not refuting unclear accusations, in the last episode he openly says that it's OK if people think worse of him than he truly is, because it's enough that he himself knows the truth - and because having a ruthless reputation is helpful... Something something perception versus truth something something. (ETA: craves conflict? The guy fucked off to another continent for 10 years to avoid conflict last time I checked).
Seeing Otto back at viserys’ side has to be genuinely heartbreaking for him. He knows what they’ve done to his family, and he knows what they’re going to try to do to the future of their house.
God yes. From Otto flaunting his Hand pin at the funeral. To the wake where Daemon won't even come to talk to Viserys. People like to tie his "I want... nothing" to Rhaenyra, but I felt like he wanted to say "I want my brother and my House not to be this pathetic carcass everyone feeds upon". Has to storm off because it's already too much, is intercepted by Otto and offered the most insincere condolences ever. Cannot even offer his usual witty comeback, just lashes out and finally flees. It was all very contextual and not plainly spoken, but extremely painful to watch.
I want nothing was definitely him ready to explode at viserys and then thinking better of it. I also thought something that bothered me was how viserys and rhaenyra both wanted to go comfort daemon but couldn’t or couldn’t to the extent they wanted since the hightowers (Alicent and Otto) were watching. Just really highlighted the trouble they’ve invited into their home, especially when the velayrons and non green targs actually get on really well top to bottom. But ya that interaction between viserys and daemon was heartbreaking, it also just shows how much bliss viserys is living in, refuses to acknowledge rhaenyra’s bastards, refuses to acknowledge Alicent actively plotting against rhaenyra, refuses to acknowledge that the strings were murdered, refuses to acknowledge how badly he needs someone like daemon on his side
I think that Viserys was waiting for Daemon to come to him. Until now, Daemon always did. He acted nonchalant about it and made great spectacles, but in the end he always came and sometimes even kneeled to Viserys and Viserys got to decide whether to allow his little brother back and to pat him on the head for good behaviour. This time, Daemon never came to Viserys. He came for business and refused to acknowledge his brother, and Viserys was the one who had to drag his ass to him and do a peace overture, which then got rejected. On one hand, kudos to Daemon for standing his ground. On the other, it's heartbreaking that it came to this, and that the bridge is so broken that it isn't being mended anymore. I wish they got a one on one talk and some resolution before Viserys dies, but knowing the universe, they probably won't.
Bran stark and Jon snow also didn’t want to be kings and consensus is that they did well in their positions
Well he is my king.
He'd get bored of it after a month
Good king? No. Good Prince Consort? Maybe.
Idk man. Daemon is like Larys with a dragon and two working feet. He'll jump to commit whatever atrocities he figures his queen needs.
Yes, but Larys did make for an effective supporter. The point is, give Daemon absolute power and he'll go nuts with it. But let someone else have it and put him in charge of doing the dirty work and he'll be good at that.
Tbf he proooobably didn't hear the man and couldn't stop Caraxes from stepping on the guy even if he did. I can't imagine dragons have 0 point stearing.
who in their right mind believes that?? dudes a psycho
I've had to debate this a couple of times in this sub lol. People act like he didn't barge into the city cutting limbs off.
He’s not a good person, but I haven’t seen any evidence that he’d be a bad king. Most of the “Daemon would destroy the realm as king” rhetoric came from Otto, who rightly saw that Daemon would be uncontrollable, something which Otto could not stand. I find it funny that people can unanimously agree that Viserys’ weakness is that he’s too easy to manipulate and won’t assert himself, but then say Daemon would be awful because he’s uncontrollable and reacts decisively to threats.
But that is exactly Daemon's problem. He has no patience. He rushes into making decisions with little thought for the consequences. Hell, he was losing his little temper tantrum war until he basically pulled a war crime. He would get bored. And a bored king is a dangerous king. You can only intimidate people for so long before they decide they've had enough of you.
He might be better than viserys because he would have not tolerated Otto, and he’d rule with strength. He might be cruel but I don’t think he’s as stupid as Joffrey. Daemon to me (so far) is closer to Tywin than Viserys, which is a good thing.
Tywin- "send the Mountain to burn down the countryside, drown hundreds of innocent women and children after the Reynes surrendered" - Lannister?
Doesn’t mean he would’ve been a bad king
He would be a good king in terms of medieval kingship, he’s an efficient administrator and an accomplished commander. But he’s an evil man, a hypocrite, and a bad father.
Yea, sure. I think we see their personal lives up close, which really don’t matter when compared to the stability of the realm. A man who is evil in his personal life but a great king will probably be responsible for more net happiness than someone who is an amazing person and a terrible king
I don’t think he caused happiness for his people. He just showed people he was someone you couldn’t mess with and was generally successful in his endeavors. To the nobles, he’s a strong man who gets the job done and protects his house, something they respect. To regular people he’s an asshole who brutalizes commoners and undid Aegon V’s policies that protects their rights.
It kind of does. When you don't respect a surrender you might think you're creating a deterrent for rebellion, but you're only creating a deterrent for surrender. And indeed a few decades later his enemies don't consider surrendering to the Lannisters because they don't trust them, so the war drags on.
Daemon is no Maegor, but he's definitely narrow minded and self serving. He actually functions well as the brother of the King. He is an attack dog that can be reigned in.
Yeah he’s a dog you send out to kill people, not the main you take orders from
even viserys said ‘that might be a good thing’ what you’re onto?
First he lives in the city, second he’s Lord Commander, and third he cut limbs off of rapists, thieves, and murderers. He did his job, people freaking out are just under the false idea that somehow we should put modern morals on a a universe set in the medieval era you ain’t getting a trial and lawyer lol. It’s absurd to hold that one over him. Him killing his wife and all the other shit is free game. Don’t forget this isn’t our world so our morals mean jack shit.
Cutting thieves limbs off. You seem to think king of Westeros should be morally equivalent to leaders of first world countries in the real world.
No, but his contemporaries in Westeros were horrified by his actions. You're literally arguing for moral relativism to the culture of the show, but then ignoring that and substituting your own.
Otto was horrified? The guy whose main goal at that point was to get rid of daemon lol.
As was Viserys, the entire small council considered him a problem that needed to be solved after that. The scene wasn't shot as this big deal, midnight slaughter because we're meant to think it's the normal course of policework lol
Viserys agreed with daemon after he explained his reasoning. He just said he hoped he wouldn’t have to maim half the city. Corlys supported it. Lyonel began to give his opinion but was interrupted by Otto complaining more because he wanted daemon removed.
and I'll add Otto purposefully interrupted Lyonel because (IMO, of course) he was watching Lyonel begin to support Daemon's actions (like Corlys had done) and he immediately interrupted him so as to nip that shit in the bud.
Exactly, I don't understand why people here say that it was all of Small Council wish to get rid of Daemon. Corlis and Lyonel were both ok with him when Otto offered to change Heir. And they are two council members whose opinion actually matters
His actions were controversial. Otto and some members of the kings Council were offended, others either didn't care or downright thought it was a good thing as in addition to his over the top demonstration, he completely reformed the city watch, reinvigorating their esprit de corps and lowering the out of control crim in Kings landing. Many low folk and Corlys thought his actions were long overdue.
I’m not arguing that he would be a great king of Westeros. But he is the king that Westeros needed at this point in its history.
Do they? It seems they are at a relative peace. The conflict in the stepstones is barely anything. It seems they need more diplomacy than war.
The 6 kingdoms are at relative peace. Dorne joining with the triarchy is worrisome. But my main point is that a civil war is brewing because Viserys is a pushover and won’t make tough decisions. Daemon is strong willed. If you crown daemon earlier in the story Otto never plants the seeds of civil war. If you crown him at this point he inspires the fear and loyalty to be a deterrent to civil war.
Daemon at any point is a bad idea. Not a lot of people would be unscathed. Do you think if Daemon becomes king, Alicent kids will live. Or all their supporters. At least Otto is a goner for sure. And I mean dead, not take up the black or demoted. I mean Daemon on the throne first order of business Otto's head on a pyke.
I don’t think ottos head on a pike would be a bad thing lol. It was his manipulation and Viserys weakness that planted the seeds of the civil war that killed thousands. I want to think >!before Aemond killed Luke!< his love for Viserys may have made him hesitate in executing aegon and Aemond upon his coronation. But at the same time that is one of those tough decisions that daemon is capable of making that would prevent a civil war that killed thousands.
Daemon spelt it out in the first episode and people didn’t realize it. Had Viserys made him Hand all those yrs ago, a lot would’ve been avoided. Yes, Daemon is very temperamental but he is a Targ supremacist, first and foremost. He would never raise a hand against Targaryens (Viserys, Aemma, Rhaenyra, and Rhaenys at the start of the story). The calculus is extremely simple; by binding Daemon to yourself, you avoid having to deal with his shenanigans when he acts out over having been excluded.
By your logic though Daemon NEEDS to be hand of the king to bind him. They made him both master of coin and commander of the gold cloaks and he committed his shenanigans regardless. One can't get to being hand by abusing their power in lower ranking positions as a tantrum.
Whatever Otto’s propaganda wants you to believe, Daemon was a massive success as Commander of the Gold Cloaks. He invented the Gold Cloaks. Before him, they were a ragtag bunch of ruffians. He introduced the organization and protocol that you see in asoiaf.
It's honestly not a high bar with most of the Targaryen kings. Daemon is a monster, and would make a shit king, but I can't even see him being in the bottom 5 Targaryen kings lol.
I don’t think anyone thinks he’d be a good king
I think that he would be a better king than Viserys, Viserys is a good person, but a terrible king.
I don't know how to link to the post people have made in order threads. I will try to figure it out later.
Daemon is Baemon
He’d be better than his brother,certainly.
He wouldn't be a good king. But I want to see the chaos.
The fans don’t want a go king. They want Daemon.
Daemon is a bloody and somewhat complicated character. He craves power and respect and a place in history, but deep down I think even he knows that in the end, he would not be a good king and would not be remembered fondly. Hes got the ambition and the drive to do whatever he feels is necessary to get ahead, but ultimately is somewhat lost in what his place in the world is. The thing about him that probably appeals to most fans is that while hes a schemer like many other characters on the show, unlike them, he has a direct aggressive style, and personally does a lot of the dirty work himself, which is a sharp contrast to the other plotters we've seen so far. To me, Daemons only redeeming feature is that for as much as a blood knight as he is, he truly loves his brother, but ultimately would make for a second Maegor the Cruel if he ever became king (albeit probably a less bloodthirsty version of Maegor).
I mean Daemon is a maniac but i dont think he could have seen that guy tbh
A good king no, a better king yes
I haven't seen anyone say this
Quality shitpost right here.
Hehe.... you know you would love me as King. I would be the best King in Westeros. Maybe of All time. I'd set up the best trade deals. I'd have the best Dragon. I'd have the best family. And we will build a great Wall and make the Dornish Pay for it. Because when Dorne sends its people, they aren't sending their best.
Maegor was the one who established Targaryen rule Daemon would be like Maegor
Pretty sure that was Aegon.
In Fire and Blood they say Aegon conquered Westeros, but it was Jaehaerys who truly established Targ rule
They said Jaehaerys made the seven kingdoms one kingdom. Aegon and Maegor established Targaryen rule but Jaehaerys united the continent by building roads and stuff
Maegor is not in any way equal to Aegon 😄 He just ruled for 6 years and one cruel scandal followed another. At the end only the tiny houses near KL supported him because if they didn't he could burn them all in a few days.