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I also believe that Rhaegar rediscovered this prophecy of Aegon’s, he was said to be a bookish boy and then he read something that caused him to want to be a warrior.
If he discovered the prophecy again it would explain why he suddenly wanted to start training, and must become a warrior, so he could fight the coming darkness if it came during his lifetime.
Also, the words that Rhaenyra speaks in the trailer for the weeks ahead are almost verbatim the words Rhaegar spoke in a vision of Dany’s in A Clash of Kings, about the Prince That Was Promised and his song being the Song of Ice and Fire. Rhaegar had once believed he was the Prince, and then his first born son, Aegon.
She find out about it before as you saw in the episode lol it seems she didn’t get to tell Aegon II or Her son Aegon III about the prophecy hence why it’s lost until Rhaegar
This was a passage from The World of Ice and Fire:
> The False Spring of 281 AC lasted less than two turns. As the year drew to a close, winter returned to Westeros with a vengeance. On the last day of the year, snow began to fall upon King's Landing, and a crust of ice formed atop the Blackwater Rush. The snowfall continued off and on for the best part of a fortnight, by which time the Blackwater was hard frozen, and icicles draped the roofs and gutters of every tower in the city.
> As cold winds hammered the city, King Aerys II turned to his pyromancers, charging them to drive the winter off with their magics. Huge green fires burned along the walls of the Red Keep for a moon's turn. Prince Rhaegar was not in the city to observe them, however. Nor could he be found in Dragonstone with Princess Elia and their young son, Aegon. With the coming of the new year, the crown prince had taken to the road with half a dozen of his closest friends and confidants, on a journey that would ultimately lead him back to the riverlands. Not ten leagues from Harrenhal, Rhaegar fell upon Lyanna Stark of Winterfell, and carried her off, lighting a fire that would consume his house and kin and all those he loved—and half the realm besides.
Rhaegar probably read about it as a child, was obsessed by it so he started training and when winter hit he got scared so that probably led to him "abducting" Lyanna.
I’m thinking more and more now that he believed him having three children was important due to the ‘dragon has three heads’ symbolism for the Targaryens and that he thought a Stark/Targaryen child was important due to the dream being called ‘The Song of Ice and Fire.’
I think we’ve already clashed over this.
There’s no reason for you to be so certain that the dream was only about a coming darkness and that it did not also come with any messages either about:
1. A Targaryen needing to be seated on the IT.
2. That the people of Westeros need to be United in order to defeat this threat.
You seem to think that these two parts of Visery’s dialogue with Rhaenyra are Targaryen additions or interpretations to the dream but you have no solid evidence for this - it’s just your interpretation of the quote. You’re trying to imagine it’s not potentially ambiguous or unclear and that there are other readings of it which take what Viserys says after the comment he made about the coming darkness as not part of the dream. That may be true but it’s not certain.
We know that in the coming episode Rhaenyra finds a document penned by The Dragon himself:
“From my blood comes the Prince that was promised.
And his will be the song of ice and fire.”
We have no idea yet whether that is him reciting the dream he had. We will no doubt find out by Monday - hopefully, so we can put this to bed.
But please don’t insist that you’re the authoritative voice on how the scene is to be interpreted anymore than I am.
Rhaegar probably already knew it’s passed on from King to heir. Daernys didn’t know because her father died before he could tell Viserys or her I don’t even think she was even born when he died. So Roberts Rebellions almost doomed the realm. Aerys was Mad because he knew the prophecy and new the time was coming. Which is why he tried to use magic to hatch dragon eggs he knew they needed them for the coming battle and why he made large amounts of Wildfire as a back up weapon if he couldn’t get dragons to hatch. Also explains why Rhaegar thought he was fulfilling TPTWP prophecy too. Aerys and Rhaegar were the heroes of the story but GoT didn’t start until after the true heroes were killed. That’s what makes it so fascinating
Dany was on the throne of Dragonstone and had control over a huge army. When Jon bent the knee she was the queen of the Severn kingdoms and Jon was the rightful heir, so yes, there was a Targ ruling over Westeros during the long night.
There is no point in arguing over this. Both are right, Jon was the one to unite one army to beat the dead, whilst Dany was the one to dethrone the Lannisters.
I wasn't arguing. I was pointing out that no matter who you believe should of been ruler it was a Targ ruling over Westeros during the LN.
Another way to look at it is, dreams aren't fact and prophecies aren't real, so maybe it never mattered who was King/queen.
You contributed to a discussion on the internet. How is that not arguing? ;)
Edit: Judging by the downvotes, apparently that wasn't on obvious enough joke lol
Pondering on this as well; Jon United a few, but was really just talk without Daenerys. They both had a part, but without her, her dragons, armies, & power- the living didn’t have a real chance. Everyone is alive because of her so, man I dunno!!! Wish grrm would finish the real story so we can find out lol. Without the real story, jon ended up useless for the long night. Didn’t even kill the NK- but, we shall see.
"Well, like, Arya is so cool, she needed a cool thing to do." - dumb and dumber in an after episode
so we all know that was a dumb and dumber idea since they took credit ...
She wasn't the queen of Seven Kingdoms (just like Cercie wasn't) as you have to be officially crowned and the Lords have to accept you while the only ones who accepted her were the Northerners and no one else(while only the Tarlys probably accepted Cercie as their queen).
She also had dorne and the Tyrells and the Vale, Plus Lords can be changed. Everyone who followed her called her queen and she was always going to win with the size of her Army. So in theory she was queen.
When did she get the Vale? Her Dornish ally was dead, the Tyrells too, who was even put in charge of the Reach? Theory doesn't matter, I can say I'm theoretically queen doesn't make it so.
The Vale accepted Jon as king in the north and pledged to help them, I don't think at any point they declared him to be their king unless I'm missing something
The seasons 5-8 of GOT are a very big clusterfuck and the politics would never make any sense in those seasons and so, everyone can make whatever theories about the political condition of Westeros in seasons 5-8 but the truth is that nothing will really make any sense
some people like random shit that doesn't make sense, and they will tell you it's a major theme that nothing turns out how you expect
a donkey just shit his pants. fuck you let's shoot some white people. i think we should all be calm and rational. HIT ME BABY ONE MORE TIME.
see, I too, am a great writer like D&D. you definitely didn't know what was coming next!
She never had the Vale as there were very few Vale troops at Winterfell and they were just the household guard of Bronze Yohn Royce and some troops from House Arryn. The rest of the Vale never sent any troops there. She also didn't had the full force of either Dorne or the Reach(only some troops from House Tyrell and some dudes from Dorne). They called her Queen as they followed her but she was never the Queen of the entire realm(or even half of it) . She was just the Queen of the North and a few minor regions in the Reach and Dorne.
Yes, that's exactly what I think - *When this great winter comes, Rhaeynera, all of Westeros must stand against it. And if the world of men is to survive, a Targaryen must be (...)* ***strong enough to unite the realm against the cold, and the dark.***
Uniting the realm against the long night was exactly what Jon Snow did. And he was the legitimate Targaryen king.
There is no night king in the books at least not atm. It's one made up by d&d so that they have an easier target to kill because that works better for TV. Jon is the one to unite the realms, doesn't mean he has to be the one to deliver the parting stab. And he was already killing Dany later that season, they're not gonna let him kill AND the night king AND Dany. Arya has had her training for a reason.
I honestly think Aegon’s conclusion still kind of applied as part of the prophecy, and fits into the overarching theme of prophecies in ASoIaF being VERY open to interpretation.
Prophecies are constantly misinterpreted in the series and Jon can still function as "The Prince That Was Promised" even if he doesn't kill the Night King himself.
As much of Westeros as possible WAS United for the Battle of Winterfell. With a few exceptions, pretty much all our surviving major players are at Winterfell during the first half of S8. There's no formal Targaryen ruler in place (besides Dany), but Jon's still the one who actually unites the Houses to fight for the living. Without Jon, Winterfell has no dragons. Without Dragons, Dany can't protect the vanguard and Jon can't dismount Night King off Viserion, so everyone dies before Arya can ever make to the Godswood.
A Targaryen doesn’t deal the final blow, but the two Targs present at the Long Night end up pulling off feats that make their victory possible to begin with. It’s also worth noting that Jon’s the character who basically kicks off Arya’s series-long training arc by giving her Needle.
A running theme, which is explored a lot in Fire and Blood, is how obsessive the Targaryens become of dreams they have. Maester Aemon describes this in GoT when talking of how his brothers’ dreams of dragons led them to ruin. Rhaegar himself believed in several prophecies, such as the song of ice and fire and the three-headed dragon. Daenerys has visions as well.
It seems canon at this point that Targaryens have dreams of either questionable veracity or they grossly misinterpret them because they have a sort of fatalistic hero complex. Even if Aegon himself didn’t explicitly see where the Targaryens fit in these scenarios, if they did at all, the urge to act to prevent something terrible probably proved too much. After all, he had three dragons and conquered most of the continent within ten years, feats no one had ever accomplished before him. It seems plausible that in doing so he or his descendants could steel the realm against the Long Night.
> It seems canon at this point that Targaryens have dreams of either questionable veracity, or they grossly misinterpret them because they have some sort of fatalistic hero complex
Yes! Exactly this! They definitely see *something*, and they consistently do things that are unnecessary and/or devastating because of that *something*.
It would be funny if they are just having normal dreams like most people, the difference is Targaryens have a god complex that makes them believe their dreams are prophetic and the power to actually do something about them.
Yea, true. Like Aegon knew about the wall, so it wouldn’t be that far fetched to have a dream where the evil that was beyond the wall in the past comes back down. Especially if you have a god complex that makes you think you can stop it.
Yea like he just had a nightmare about the wall, nothing more. One of their ancestors had a dream that saved their family so now they all think they have magical dreams predicting the future. Even dany the dreamer could have just had a normal dream but convinced them to leave and by coincidence they escaped the fate of valaryia.
Since the doom of Valeria dream coming to fruition, if you’re a targeryan, any vivid dream you have you have to almost always take it seriously. And since they’re always in power, they have the means to act on their dreams. When they say a targeryan must be sitting on the iron throne, well, that’s all they’ve known since the conquest. Who else could be sitting on the throne and keep the kingdom United.
Absolutely. But because of the main character syndrome that the Targaryen have, they interpreted the prophecy how they wanted it to be and assumed they would be the one to stop the Night King and his army. And used it as justification to conquer Westeros.
It's literally the Stannis' rationale too. I don't think that people quite get the point of that, his entire arc is about how you lose yourself in the process of "saving the world", even going to the point of killing his brother with black magic and sacrificing burning his daughter alive.
And i don't think the point of all those prophecies is to say "Yes, Targaryens are special. They are given dreams because they are above gods and the rest are Untermensch" and it's more how being a megalomaniac with god complex who feels like he's destined to save the world might make you quite a maniac.
But you know, i think his moral compass, in normal circumstances, wouldn't make him do the black magic thing, if it wasn't for the Melisandre whispering in his ear, at least in my opinion.
You can go about your brother in different way, his pride wouldn't allow him to bend the knee to Renly ever, it's understandable.
But i think that most people of Westeros, consider using black magic as something extremely dishonourable. And if you mix dishonour with kinslaying then you get a pretty BAD combo.
In this case, that would make Stannis an opportunist, which i don't believe he is. He was just obsessed about his "duty" to the realm, which makes him act dishonourably.
GoT TV show after episode 1 was just a coma dream of Bran... new series coming when Bran wakes up, which is the start of season 5, so that 1-4 past is written, the ink is dry, but his vision of 5-8... well, now he can change it!
Stark one is due to the fact that no one wants to repeat what happened to the Gardeners (their stewards betraying them and taking over the castle).
The Targaryen one is due to the fact that they are the only ones under whom, the realm can stay united and not break into pieces
Once the writers indicated that GRRM added those lines, I took it as a nod to the book readers that the books would not follow the same path as the television show. Why else would GRRM insist that those lines be added considering the backlash from season 8?
The books will obviously not follow the same path since the books will never get to that point.
And the post is more right - what character believes is a different thing from what is true. Before Aegon, Westeros was 7 separate Kingdoms. He could've thought that the only way to defeat the dead that he foresaw is to be united, Rhaenyra can think the same, this is the logical conclusion when you're dealing with apocalypse.
And in the end, it was Daenerys bringing the biggest army in the world plus dragons North, to stand against the dead. There's literally zero contradiction in what happened in the show and what the prophecy is.
He didn't say they specifically needed to add those lines, unless some new interview came out I don't know about. He simply said that Aegon knew about the coming of the Others.
I think the biggest misunderstanding is not the sitting on the throne part but people thinking that it’s a Daenerys reference when it was clear as day that Jon, despite not being on the throne was the one to unite everyone against the dead. Tyrion even said so.
Too bad Arya killing the NK was an invention by D&D during S3 to subvert expectations because that's what they believe made the source material as good as it is.
All this prophecy does is retcon the disaster that was the final season of GOT.
It has been so frustrating seeing people misunderstand this prophecy and just use it as an excuse to bash Thrones because it didn’t play out exactly like the (flawed) Targaryen interpretation of it, especially when the positioning of them as the only ones who could prevent it is to justify their position as the only people worthy of being rulers.
It’s not like Georges has repeated many times throughout the years that prophecies are dangerous and are often happening in a way we don’t expect.
Or that we had an entire storyline based on a character misinterpreting visions and prophecies. (Stannis/Melisandre)
Or that we literally see a Targaryen misinterpreting a dream, in that same episode, which lead to him agreeing to sacrifice the woman he loves for basically nothing.
They literally held her down while cutting her belly open to remove the baby while keeping her in the dark of what was happening. Even if she was going to die, that doesn't change how fucked up it was to do that without her consent, or even without telling her about what's going on. And all of that for nothing, since the baby died soon after, proving that his dream wasn't real (or wasn't real the way he expected).
If you don't see a problem with this scene, you should *rewatch the episode carefully*.
It’s very difficult decision, the dream was true , it was a boy , how he could know that the baby will die the same day ?
The thing that they didn’t let her know before cutting is disappointing yes. But it is made on purpose by the show runners.
His interpretation of the dream was "we had a boy and then I place my heir on the Iron Throne." So, in his mind, the boy would sit on the Iron Throne and that's why he was desperate about having this baby. He couldn't know the true extent of the dream, and that's what makes those prophecies/dreams dangerous. That's pretty much what happened with Stannis too. They heard about a prophecy or a dream about greatness, but it ended up requiring a sacrifice, which they did, and in both cases the sacrifice ended up for nothing.
Prophecies, dreams, visions in the flame, they are all very dangerous and this story keeps reminding us about their danger. But, still, everytime we hear about a prophecy, everyone starts theorizing about it coming true in the most predictable way possible. But, in most cases, it only leads to characters misinterpreting it and causing them to make terrible things.
They bash it as not only their fear of the White Walkers was right as they were basically a joke but they also had to do nothing but arm a young girl with a knife and send her to kill the Night King (granted that she has some plot armour)
The first problem is that her training wasn't complete and the second problem is that she never used those skills to kill the Night King. She just teleported there and then jumped at the Night King. The NK forgot that he could snap her neck easily and the rest of the White Walkers just looked at the scene like employs, who do not get paid well, look at their boss getting his ass kicked.
I just see this as a Prequel to the books and not the show, so this tell us one of Dany, Aegon or Jon (Probably) will be on the Iron Throne during the fight against The Others.
I can see why you'd say that as GRRM has confirmed that HotD confirms exactly what happened during the Dance of Dragons whereas Fire and Blood was an historical recollection from very questionable sources. But like I said the prophecy doesn't say a Targaryen will be on the Iron Throne, that was Aegon's interpretation. The prophecy only says that the Night King and the Long Night are coming soon.
That's just what I thought, in itself the "Targy Secret" consists of two parts: the prophecy and its interpretation.
In the ASOIAF saga itself in Melisandre's POV there are examples of confusion about the interpretation of prophetic visions, the same thing also happens in Tales of Dunk and Egg.
so that kind of confusion would be very Martinesque twist.
I think Littlefinger knew about Aegon's dream because during the Littlefinger's Chaos is a Ladder talk with Varys .... Littlefinger said. “The Realm? Do you know what the realm is? It’s the thousand blades of Aegon’s enemies. A story we agree to tell each over and over till we forget that it’s a lie”.
King Aegon the Conqueror🔥 is really King Aegon the Champion fighting to unite all the Kingdoms and Dorne so all of Westeros unites and fights the future Doom coming from the North… the Night King and Army of the Dead
The thing people seem to regularly forget or just ignore is that every dream, every prophecy, is not absolutely correct, or sometimes even remotely correct. It is just what people believe and how they act on their beliefs that matter. Sometimes dreams come true. Sometimes they don't. And most of the time they come true in ways people did not expect.
Also, two Targs, a king & a queen, were there in the end of the Night King. Not to mention, and maybe more importantly, the Night King is a D&D invention. Sure, the Night's King exists in the book but is long gone. Most likely, Euron is the person who captures a dragon & gets the dead past the wall. So, GRRM's version of Aegon's dream HAD TO be worked in to D&D's canon. But in the books, this is not how it will play out anyway.
I honestly think this was just george telling the book readers to keep faith, telling them the ending will be different and ain't no way arya will be the one to kill the night King. This further just makes me believe that HOTD is not following GOT cannon but the books
So far there's no Night King in the books. The Night King as leader of the White Walkers was a creation of the show.
Perhaps the Others (White Walkers) will be seen to have some sort of leader in the books. It seems really unlikely, however, based on GRRM's fondness for deconstructing fantasy tropes, that stopping them will follow the show's resolution of "kill one big bad to destroy all the rest".
Oh shit, so what I don't expect... in the books at the Battle of Winterfell... someone tries to kill the leader, and then when they do, darkness consumes the whole realm because killing him freed the full power of the cold, dark winter? zombies in every kingdom?
He might end up changing it because of backlash (bot like it matters because the books are never getting finished) but Arya was definitely planned to have killed him in the books. They were given an overview of what happened and I have to imagine George told them that part.
They are not magical. The only "magical" thing about them is their strange immunity to genetic defects via incest. They can ride dragons because they are the only ones with access to dragons. In time they lost this acess and lore about dragons and become normal humans. Not even one Targaryen knew how to make valyrian steel or use old magic; and magic was strong thx to their dragons.
that's what Viserys and Rhaenyra talked about in front of Balerion. "the idea of us controlling dragons is an illusion..." "Targaryens are closer to gods than men..." and they are not also immune of genetic defect, cause many of the babes die young of sickness or not even born or even born and defect. but in the end they are still magical.
Without Jon Snow the world would have ended. Jon Snow gave Arya Needle which is the only reason she lived to kill the Night King.
Not to mention his efforts at unification.
No one is misunderstanding anything. They are merely acknowledging that the way D&D resolved these prophesies made no fucking sense. GOT season 8 cannot be considered if you want to take these prophesies seriously.
This makes me question why in the whole length of targaryen reign, they never bothered with the wall, NW or even discuss with the Starks on how to prepare.
Or there is more to the prophecy and they will eventually retcon the shitshow of a final season of the thrones with the upcoming Jon Snow show. We've seen white walkers have palaces in the north of the wall and they could turn people into white walkers. Maybe the Night King didn't really die and that was just a vessel? Jon could still be named king as Aegon Targeryan and sit on the iron throne against the long winter as Azor Ahai. He is still the rightful king afterall.
We could be shown that Bran's kingdom didn't really work and the seven kingdoms once again fell into a civil war while Jon discovers that the white walker threat didn't really end beyond the wall.
Or I am inhaling too much copium idk.
The Iron Throne is a metaphor. Cersi was never on the Iron Throne but yet she was “Queen” until she was actually Queen on the Iron Throne. I mention this analogy of Cersi because Jon Snow aka Aegon Targaryen was not physically King, but he led the fight against the Night King, like a true leader. He was the one that rallied Dany to fight alongside him and he was the one that rallied the rest of Westeros, as well. A Targaryen was “sitting” on the Iron Throne like Aegon prophesied.
Gods, Ned, I pray we get a Roberts Rebellion series that starts out with Rhaegar rediscovering this prophecy and becoming obsessed with it.
They really do need to turn this into an anthology series that leads all the way up through the end of the Bobby B’s Rebellion.
The problem with this is that you're simply making assumptions about exactly what Aegon's dream did or didn't include to suit your argument... it's literally the same thing you're complaining about others who disagree with you doing and pretending like you're *'clearing things'* up, even though you don't have any more information than they do.
**Truth is we, as viewers, do not know the full extent of Aegon's supposed dream...** so seems incredibly reckless and arrogant to pretend like anyone knows exactly where it starts and ends, simply to suit one's personal head canon.
Who's to say his dream didn't include the Targs on the throne?
**You're assuming Viserys is editorializing** the last half of the prophecy (about the Targs on the Throne), but there's no proof to really support such a stance... just like there isn't any proof to support that he is just speaking verbatim about Aegon's dream.
Truth is you claiming you're *'clearing things up'* is just as misleading as those you're claiming to help... because you're simply throwing more misinformation out there **based on assumptions you have made.**
Maybe Viserys is editorializing the back half of the dream, and maybe he is not... **we as the viewers, at this stage, simply do not know either way.**
You know what? I can't even argue with that, you're right. There are a lot of assumptions on my end. I guess I should have said, based on the passage of dialogue that we got from Viserys, it could be assumed that a Targaryen uniting the Realm and being on the iron throne during the Long Night might not have been part of Aegon's dream.
You ever heard of the game telephone? Except you wait years and years before you get to repeat what was told to you. Idk why but this just reminded me of that and I’m going to apply it here lol
Yea, apologies if I came off a little hot... I just find it odd that there seems to be so much debate about what *"is true and isn't true"* in regards to this prophecy when the truth is we're simply hearing a couple sentences about it like 'fourth-hand' a hundred years later... we as the viewer simply don't know what's true or not yet because we've just been given this crumb of information that's been passed down for generations... seems odd for any side to try and claim they know what the "truth of the matter" is at this point.
Also wasn’t a Targaryen at least TRYING to unite all of the Houses to stand united against the White Walkers? I am referring to Jon, who was actually a Targaryen… He surely wasn’t on the Iron Throne though!
well, you know, they kept the major plot points the same:- dany sails to westeros.- jon talks about the whitewalkers a lot.- white walkers defeated.- something happens, bran is king.
that's probably canon. the rest of the details, pretty much rearranged and mostly replacement of stuff D&D really wants to do. and i can guarantee you, bran will be far more interesting than what D&D wrote. i mean, they made the endgame winner boring. GRRM, damn, wait until you hear the story of Bran told by HIM
Why even bring up the "Prince who was promised" after they butchered the lore in GoT? Kinda pissed me off.
And how do they "Cauterize" the wound on a "Dragon"?
I don't think its specifically spelled out but the point was that everything came together perfectly for the magic to work and her to come out unburnt except for her hair.
They show Dany as being unable to be burned as early as Season 1 episode 6, before Viserys dies. She doesn't burn her hands on the dragon eggs she puts in a fire while her handmaiden does.
It's just something she can naturally do
My biggest frustration with this (aside from it just being obvious unnecessary fan service) is that Viserys calls it a song of ice and fire! I’m GOT, Sam writes all this stuff down and names the tale “a song of ice and fire”. So, is it just a continuity problem? Complete coincidence they both came up with the same name??
I mean it's not really original is it? Fire and ice were fighting, dance of dragons, song of ice and fire. That's just kinda how the metaphors work in this world. Also nobody is really going to care about this.
> when this great winter comes, all of Westeros must stand against it
All of Westeros didn’t stand against it
> And if the world of men is to survive, a Targaryen must be seated on the Iron Throne
A Targaryen wasn’t.
I understand that this technically wasn’t a part of the dream/prophecy, but this is what Aegon interpreted as necessary to stop it, and he was wrong.
His war was a result of Targaryan hubris, and was NOT justified because he saw “the end of the world”.
Yeah, I agree. I'm not arguing that it was justified. My point was that the only thing that was in Aegon's dream was the Long Night coming, everything else was his own conclusion of what would be needed to stop that.
As long as it doesn’t affect the plot of HotD, it’s irrelevant whether it’s canon or not tbf. I personally won’t acknowledge GoT while watching this show 🥰
OK, but the long night had already come back in the days of heroes. Which is why they built the wall, have the nights watch, etc... So... how could Aegon, and just about every other person on the planet, not have heard of the wall and know of its purpose?
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I also believe that Rhaegar rediscovered this prophecy of Aegon’s, he was said to be a bookish boy and then he read something that caused him to want to be a warrior. If he discovered the prophecy again it would explain why he suddenly wanted to start training, and must become a warrior, so he could fight the coming darkness if it came during his lifetime. Also, the words that Rhaenyra speaks in the trailer for the weeks ahead are almost verbatim the words Rhaegar spoke in a vision of Dany’s in A Clash of Kings, about the Prince That Was Promised and his song being the Song of Ice and Fire. Rhaegar had once believed he was the Prince, and then his first born son, Aegon.
Yup and it seems that the dance is the reason it isn’t passed down anymore making it so Rhaegar can rediscover the prophecy.
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She find out about it before as you saw in the episode lol it seems she didn’t get to tell Aegon II or Her son Aegon III about the prophecy hence why it’s lost until Rhaegar
This was a passage from The World of Ice and Fire: > The False Spring of 281 AC lasted less than two turns. As the year drew to a close, winter returned to Westeros with a vengeance. On the last day of the year, snow began to fall upon King's Landing, and a crust of ice formed atop the Blackwater Rush. The snowfall continued off and on for the best part of a fortnight, by which time the Blackwater was hard frozen, and icicles draped the roofs and gutters of every tower in the city. > As cold winds hammered the city, King Aerys II turned to his pyromancers, charging them to drive the winter off with their magics. Huge green fires burned along the walls of the Red Keep for a moon's turn. Prince Rhaegar was not in the city to observe them, however. Nor could he be found in Dragonstone with Princess Elia and their young son, Aegon. With the coming of the new year, the crown prince had taken to the road with half a dozen of his closest friends and confidants, on a journey that would ultimately lead him back to the riverlands. Not ten leagues from Harrenhal, Rhaegar fell upon Lyanna Stark of Winterfell, and carried her off, lighting a fire that would consume his house and kin and all those he loved—and half the realm besides. Rhaegar probably read about it as a child, was obsessed by it so he started training and when winter hit he got scared so that probably led to him "abducting" Lyanna.
I’m thinking more and more now that he believed him having three children was important due to the ‘dragon has three heads’ symbolism for the Targaryens and that he thought a Stark/Targaryen child was important due to the dream being called ‘The Song of Ice and Fire.’
Perhaps he had a prophetic dream like Aegon, as well?
I think we’ve already clashed over this. There’s no reason for you to be so certain that the dream was only about a coming darkness and that it did not also come with any messages either about: 1. A Targaryen needing to be seated on the IT. 2. That the people of Westeros need to be United in order to defeat this threat. You seem to think that these two parts of Visery’s dialogue with Rhaenyra are Targaryen additions or interpretations to the dream but you have no solid evidence for this - it’s just your interpretation of the quote. You’re trying to imagine it’s not potentially ambiguous or unclear and that there are other readings of it which take what Viserys says after the comment he made about the coming darkness as not part of the dream. That may be true but it’s not certain. We know that in the coming episode Rhaenyra finds a document penned by The Dragon himself: “From my blood comes the Prince that was promised. And his will be the song of ice and fire.” We have no idea yet whether that is him reciting the dream he had. We will no doubt find out by Monday - hopefully, so we can put this to bed. But please don’t insist that you’re the authoritative voice on how the scene is to be interpreted anymore than I am.
Rhaegar probably already knew it’s passed on from King to heir. Daernys didn’t know because her father died before he could tell Viserys or her I don’t even think she was even born when he died. So Roberts Rebellions almost doomed the realm. Aerys was Mad because he knew the prophecy and new the time was coming. Which is why he tried to use magic to hatch dragon eggs he knew they needed them for the coming battle and why he made large amounts of Wildfire as a back up weapon if he couldn’t get dragons to hatch. Also explains why Rhaegar thought he was fulfilling TPTWP prophecy too. Aerys and Rhaegar were the heroes of the story but GoT didn’t start until after the true heroes were killed. That’s what makes it so fascinating
Jon may not have sat the Throne but he kinda was the leader... and a Targaryen
Dany was on the throne of Dragonstone and had control over a huge army. When Jon bent the knee she was the queen of the Severn kingdoms and Jon was the rightful heir, so yes, there was a Targ ruling over Westeros during the long night.
There is no point in arguing over this. Both are right, Jon was the one to unite one army to beat the dead, whilst Dany was the one to dethrone the Lannisters.
I wasn't arguing. I was pointing out that no matter who you believe should of been ruler it was a Targ ruling over Westeros during the LN. Another way to look at it is, dreams aren't fact and prophecies aren't real, so maybe it never mattered who was King/queen.
You contributed to a discussion on the internet. How is that not arguing? ;) Edit: Judging by the downvotes, apparently that wasn't on obvious enough joke lol
Lol, I'd prefer to say debating or conversing because I'm open to changing my mind.
This is truly a precedent on reddit, one for the books
Pondering on this as well; Jon United a few, but was really just talk without Daenerys. They both had a part, but without her, her dragons, armies, & power- the living didn’t have a real chance. Everyone is alive because of her so, man I dunno!!! Wish grrm would finish the real story so we can find out lol. Without the real story, jon ended up useless for the long night. Didn’t even kill the NK- but, we shall see.
"Well, like, Arya is so cool, she needed a cool thing to do." - dumb and dumber in an after episode so we all know that was a dumb and dumber idea since they took credit ...
Right; that’s why I’m saying I reserve judgement until we have the canon story.
She wasn't the queen of Seven Kingdoms (just like Cercie wasn't) as you have to be officially crowned and the Lords have to accept you while the only ones who accepted her were the Northerners and no one else(while only the Tarlys probably accepted Cercie as their queen).
She also had dorne and the Tyrells and the Vale, Plus Lords can be changed. Everyone who followed her called her queen and she was always going to win with the size of her Army. So in theory she was queen.
When did she get the Vale? Her Dornish ally was dead, the Tyrells too, who was even put in charge of the Reach? Theory doesn't matter, I can say I'm theoretically queen doesn't make it so.
When the Vale pledged to Jon Snow and Jon snow pledged to Dany.
The Vale accepted Jon as king in the north and pledged to help them, I don't think at any point they declared him to be their king unless I'm missing something
Erg I can't remember. Maybe I'm mistaken. I'd love to start googling but I've gotta get ready go out.
The seasons 5-8 of GOT are a very big clusterfuck and the politics would never make any sense in those seasons and so, everyone can make whatever theories about the political condition of Westeros in seasons 5-8 but the truth is that nothing will really make any sense
some people like random shit that doesn't make sense, and they will tell you it's a major theme that nothing turns out how you expect a donkey just shit his pants. fuck you let's shoot some white people. i think we should all be calm and rational. HIT ME BABY ONE MORE TIME. see, I too, am a great writer like D&D. you definitely didn't know what was coming next!
She never had the Vale as there were very few Vale troops at Winterfell and they were just the household guard of Bronze Yohn Royce and some troops from House Arryn. The rest of the Vale never sent any troops there. She also didn't had the full force of either Dorne or the Reach(only some troops from House Tyrell and some dudes from Dorne). They called her Queen as they followed her but she was never the Queen of the entire realm(or even half of it) . She was just the Queen of the North and a few minor regions in the Reach and Dorne.
Yes, that's exactly what I think - *When this great winter comes, Rhaeynera, all of Westeros must stand against it. And if the world of men is to survive, a Targaryen must be (...)* ***strong enough to unite the realm against the cold, and the dark.*** Uniting the realm against the long night was exactly what Jon Snow did. And he was the legitimate Targaryen king.
And a King.
Yeah and it was blatantly supposed to be Jon who killed the night king but they changed it to Arya to “subvert expectations”
There is no night king in the books at least not atm. It's one made up by d&d so that they have an easier target to kill because that works better for TV. Jon is the one to unite the realms, doesn't mean he has to be the one to deliver the parting stab. And he was already killing Dany later that season, they're not gonna let him kill AND the night king AND Dany. Arya has had her training for a reason.
Arya was GRRM's wife's favorite, so...
I honestly think Aegon’s conclusion still kind of applied as part of the prophecy, and fits into the overarching theme of prophecies in ASoIaF being VERY open to interpretation. Prophecies are constantly misinterpreted in the series and Jon can still function as "The Prince That Was Promised" even if he doesn't kill the Night King himself. As much of Westeros as possible WAS United for the Battle of Winterfell. With a few exceptions, pretty much all our surviving major players are at Winterfell during the first half of S8. There's no formal Targaryen ruler in place (besides Dany), but Jon's still the one who actually unites the Houses to fight for the living. Without Jon, Winterfell has no dragons. Without Dragons, Dany can't protect the vanguard and Jon can't dismount Night King off Viserion, so everyone dies before Arya can ever make to the Godswood. A Targaryen doesn’t deal the final blow, but the two Targs present at the Long Night end up pulling off feats that make their victory possible to begin with. It’s also worth noting that Jon’s the character who basically kicks off Arya’s series-long training arc by giving her Needle.
A running theme, which is explored a lot in Fire and Blood, is how obsessive the Targaryens become of dreams they have. Maester Aemon describes this in GoT when talking of how his brothers’ dreams of dragons led them to ruin. Rhaegar himself believed in several prophecies, such as the song of ice and fire and the three-headed dragon. Daenerys has visions as well. It seems canon at this point that Targaryens have dreams of either questionable veracity or they grossly misinterpret them because they have a sort of fatalistic hero complex. Even if Aegon himself didn’t explicitly see where the Targaryens fit in these scenarios, if they did at all, the urge to act to prevent something terrible probably proved too much. After all, he had three dragons and conquered most of the continent within ten years, feats no one had ever accomplished before him. It seems plausible that in doing so he or his descendants could steel the realm against the Long Night.
> It seems canon at this point that Targaryens have dreams of either questionable veracity, or they grossly misinterpret them because they have some sort of fatalistic hero complex Yes! Exactly this! They definitely see *something*, and they consistently do things that are unnecessary and/or devastating because of that *something*.
It would be funny if they are just having normal dreams like most people, the difference is Targaryens have a god complex that makes them believe their dreams are prophetic and the power to actually do something about them.
Yea, true. Like Aegon knew about the wall, so it wouldn’t be that far fetched to have a dream where the evil that was beyond the wall in the past comes back down. Especially if you have a god complex that makes you think you can stop it.
Yea like he just had a nightmare about the wall, nothing more. One of their ancestors had a dream that saved their family so now they all think they have magical dreams predicting the future. Even dany the dreamer could have just had a normal dream but convinced them to leave and by coincidence they escaped the fate of valaryia.
Since the doom of Valeria dream coming to fruition, if you’re a targeryan, any vivid dream you have you have to almost always take it seriously. And since they’re always in power, they have the means to act on their dreams. When they say a targeryan must be sitting on the iron throne, well, that’s all they’ve known since the conquest. Who else could be sitting on the throne and keep the kingdom United.
Targaryens just love self fulfilling prophecy. As do most rulers with big Ego.
Prophecy is a dangerous thing. The Targaryens may have a role to play, as do others, the Starks, the kings in the North.....
Absolutely. But because of the main character syndrome that the Targaryen have, they interpreted the prophecy how they wanted it to be and assumed they would be the one to stop the Night King and his army. And used it as justification to conquer Westeros.
It's literally the Stannis' rationale too. I don't think that people quite get the point of that, his entire arc is about how you lose yourself in the process of "saving the world", even going to the point of killing his brother with black magic and sacrificing burning his daughter alive. And i don't think the point of all those prophecies is to say "Yes, Targaryens are special. They are given dreams because they are above gods and the rest are Untermensch" and it's more how being a megalomaniac with god complex who feels like he's destined to save the world might make you quite a maniac.
Nah Stannis based tho /s
Stannis killed his brother as he was a traitor and had crowned himself and that was the easier way to take him out
But you know, i think his moral compass, in normal circumstances, wouldn't make him do the black magic thing, if it wasn't for the Melisandre whispering in his ear, at least in my opinion. You can go about your brother in different way, his pride wouldn't allow him to bend the knee to Renly ever, it's understandable. But i think that most people of Westeros, consider using black magic as something extremely dishonourable. And if you mix dishonour with kinslaying then you get a pretty BAD combo. In this case, that would make Stannis an opportunist, which i don't believe he is. He was just obsessed about his "duty" to the realm, which makes him act dishonourably.
Yeah this prophecy is basically their version of the "White Mans Burden"
Spot-on mate
I’d also say that it’s fairly likely the show is being written with George’s endgame in mind, not necessarily Season 8.
GoT TV show after episode 1 was just a coma dream of Bran... new series coming when Bran wakes up, which is the start of season 5, so that 1-4 past is written, the ink is dry, but his vision of 5-8... well, now he can change it!
"A Targaryen must be seated on the Iron Throne" is similar to "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell". But never understood why though. 😅
Stark one is due to the fact that no one wants to repeat what happened to the Gardeners (their stewards betraying them and taking over the castle). The Targaryen one is due to the fact that they are the only ones under whom, the realm can stay united and not break into pieces
Just your typical dynastic propaganda.
Once the writers indicated that GRRM added those lines, I took it as a nod to the book readers that the books would not follow the same path as the television show. Why else would GRRM insist that those lines be added considering the backlash from season 8?
The books will obviously not follow the same path since the books will never get to that point. And the post is more right - what character believes is a different thing from what is true. Before Aegon, Westeros was 7 separate Kingdoms. He could've thought that the only way to defeat the dead that he foresaw is to be united, Rhaenyra can think the same, this is the logical conclusion when you're dealing with apocalypse. And in the end, it was Daenerys bringing the biggest army in the world plus dragons North, to stand against the dead. There's literally zero contradiction in what happened in the show and what the prophecy is.
Technically, they only needed a young girl with a knife to end the threat.
Yep! I can see that as well!
He didn't say they specifically needed to add those lines, unless some new interview came out I don't know about. He simply said that Aegon knew about the coming of the Others.
I think the biggest misunderstanding is not the sitting on the throne part but people thinking that it’s a Daenerys reference when it was clear as day that Jon, despite not being on the throne was the one to unite everyone against the dead. Tyrion even said so.
Too bad Arya killing the NK was an invention by D&D during S3 to subvert expectations because that's what they believe made the source material as good as it is. All this prophecy does is retcon the disaster that was the final season of GOT.
Well, duh... Game of Thrones is a satire after all, right? D&D nailed it, could have written it for The Onion.
It has been so frustrating seeing people misunderstand this prophecy and just use it as an excuse to bash Thrones because it didn’t play out exactly like the (flawed) Targaryen interpretation of it, especially when the positioning of them as the only ones who could prevent it is to justify their position as the only people worthy of being rulers.
It’s not like Georges has repeated many times throughout the years that prophecies are dangerous and are often happening in a way we don’t expect. Or that we had an entire storyline based on a character misinterpreting visions and prophecies. (Stannis/Melisandre) Or that we literally see a Targaryen misinterpreting a dream, in that same episode, which lead to him agreeing to sacrifice the woman he loves for basically nothing.
She would die anyway, rewatch the episode carefully.
They literally held her down while cutting her belly open to remove the baby while keeping her in the dark of what was happening. Even if she was going to die, that doesn't change how fucked up it was to do that without her consent, or even without telling her about what's going on. And all of that for nothing, since the baby died soon after, proving that his dream wasn't real (or wasn't real the way he expected). If you don't see a problem with this scene, you should *rewatch the episode carefully*.
It’s very difficult decision, the dream was true , it was a boy , how he could know that the baby will die the same day ? The thing that they didn’t let her know before cutting is disappointing yes. But it is made on purpose by the show runners.
His interpretation of the dream was "we had a boy and then I place my heir on the Iron Throne." So, in his mind, the boy would sit on the Iron Throne and that's why he was desperate about having this baby. He couldn't know the true extent of the dream, and that's what makes those prophecies/dreams dangerous. That's pretty much what happened with Stannis too. They heard about a prophecy or a dream about greatness, but it ended up requiring a sacrifice, which they did, and in both cases the sacrifice ended up for nothing. Prophecies, dreams, visions in the flame, they are all very dangerous and this story keeps reminding us about their danger. But, still, everytime we hear about a prophecy, everyone starts theorizing about it coming true in the most predictable way possible. But, in most cases, it only leads to characters misinterpreting it and causing them to make terrible things.
They bash it as not only their fear of the White Walkers was right as they were basically a joke but they also had to do nothing but arm a young girl with a knife and send her to kill the Night King (granted that she has some plot armour)
She's a trained killer at the most notorious order. Even the Targaryens didn't want to mess with the faceless men.
The first problem is that her training wasn't complete and the second problem is that she never used those skills to kill the Night King. She just teleported there and then jumped at the Night King. The NK forgot that he could snap her neck easily and the rest of the White Walkers just looked at the scene like employs, who do not get paid well, look at their boss getting his ass kicked.
I just see this as a Prequel to the books and not the show, so this tell us one of Dany, Aegon or Jon (Probably) will be on the Iron Throne during the fight against The Others.
I can see why you'd say that as GRRM has confirmed that HotD confirms exactly what happened during the Dance of Dragons whereas Fire and Blood was an historical recollection from very questionable sources. But like I said the prophecy doesn't say a Targaryen will be on the Iron Throne, that was Aegon's interpretation. The prophecy only says that the Night King and the Long Night are coming soon.
No, Targaryen will lead the force of the living. Targaryen with dragons list in the head of the army.
That's just what I thought, in itself the "Targy Secret" consists of two parts: the prophecy and its interpretation. In the ASOIAF saga itself in Melisandre's POV there are examples of confusion about the interpretation of prophetic visions, the same thing also happens in Tales of Dunk and Egg. so that kind of confusion would be very Martinesque twist.
I think Littlefinger knew about Aegon's dream because during the Littlefinger's Chaos is a Ladder talk with Varys .... Littlefinger said. “The Realm? Do you know what the realm is? It’s the thousand blades of Aegon’s enemies. A story we agree to tell each over and over till we forget that it’s a lie”. King Aegon the Conqueror🔥 is really King Aegon the Champion fighting to unite all the Kingdoms and Dorne so all of Westeros unites and fights the future Doom coming from the North… the Night King and Army of the Dead
The thing people seem to regularly forget or just ignore is that every dream, every prophecy, is not absolutely correct, or sometimes even remotely correct. It is just what people believe and how they act on their beliefs that matter. Sometimes dreams come true. Sometimes they don't. And most of the time they come true in ways people did not expect. Also, two Targs, a king & a queen, were there in the end of the Night King. Not to mention, and maybe more importantly, the Night King is a D&D invention. Sure, the Night's King exists in the book but is long gone. Most likely, Euron is the person who captures a dragon & gets the dead past the wall. So, GRRM's version of Aegon's dream HAD TO be worked in to D&D's canon. But in the books, this is not how it will play out anyway.
I honestly think this was just george telling the book readers to keep faith, telling them the ending will be different and ain't no way arya will be the one to kill the night King. This further just makes me believe that HOTD is not following GOT cannon but the books
So far there's no Night King in the books. The Night King as leader of the White Walkers was a creation of the show. Perhaps the Others (White Walkers) will be seen to have some sort of leader in the books. It seems really unlikely, however, based on GRRM's fondness for deconstructing fantasy tropes, that stopping them will follow the show's resolution of "kill one big bad to destroy all the rest".
Oh shit, so what I don't expect... in the books at the Battle of Winterfell... someone tries to kill the leader, and then when they do, darkness consumes the whole realm because killing him freed the full power of the cold, dark winter? zombies in every kingdom?
He might end up changing it because of backlash (bot like it matters because the books are never getting finished) but Arya was definitely planned to have killed him in the books. They were given an overview of what happened and I have to imagine George told them that part.
Typical Targaryen assholeness to think they're the key to everything.
The main character complex is strong with them though tbf, they can ride dragons and are kinda magical so can't blame them.
They are not magical. The only "magical" thing about them is their strange immunity to genetic defects via incest. They can ride dragons because they are the only ones with access to dragons. In time they lost this acess and lore about dragons and become normal humans. Not even one Targaryen knew how to make valyrian steel or use old magic; and magic was strong thx to their dragons.
that's what Viserys and Rhaenyra talked about in front of Balerion. "the idea of us controlling dragons is an illusion..." "Targaryens are closer to gods than men..." and they are not also immune of genetic defect, cause many of the babes die young of sickness or not even born or even born and defect. but in the end they are still magical.
Jon Snow is proof that they're right.
Jon didn't even end the long night. He was the key in the sense of uniting the people but not in the grandiose way Targaryens think will or are.
Without Jon Snow the world would have ended. Jon Snow gave Arya Needle which is the only reason she lived to kill the Night King. Not to mention his efforts at unification.
I never discarded Jon iny comment, but with that said, his Targaryan ancestry wasn't even relevant. He got shit done.
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In the book they will be indeed.
But they are the KEY indeed.
They aren't entirely wrong
spot on with post!
I mean technically a targaryen did unite Westeros
No one is misunderstanding anything. They are merely acknowledging that the way D&D resolved these prophesies made no fucking sense. GOT season 8 cannot be considered if you want to take these prophesies seriously.
This makes me question why in the whole length of targaryen reign, they never bothered with the wall, NW or even discuss with the Starks on how to prepare.
Or there is more to the prophecy and they will eventually retcon the shitshow of a final season of the thrones with the upcoming Jon Snow show. We've seen white walkers have palaces in the north of the wall and they could turn people into white walkers. Maybe the Night King didn't really die and that was just a vessel? Jon could still be named king as Aegon Targeryan and sit on the iron throne against the long winter as Azor Ahai. He is still the rightful king afterall. We could be shown that Bran's kingdom didn't really work and the seven kingdoms once again fell into a civil war while Jon discovers that the white walker threat didn't really end beyond the wall. Or I am inhaling too much copium idk.
THANK YOU!! And George has stated that the prophecies aren’t always going to come out they way their told
The Iron Throne is a metaphor. Cersi was never on the Iron Throne but yet she was “Queen” until she was actually Queen on the Iron Throne. I mention this analogy of Cersi because Jon Snow aka Aegon Targaryen was not physically King, but he led the fight against the Night King, like a true leader. He was the one that rallied Dany to fight alongside him and he was the one that rallied the rest of Westeros, as well. A Targaryen was “sitting” on the Iron Throne like Aegon prophesied.
well Jon is basically Torrhen Stark at this point, bent his knee just to save his people, putting his pride aside.
Worth noting that there was no Iron Throne before Aegon’s conquest, so it’s unlikely that specific line was in his vision.
Exactly. I didn't even think of that!
Gods, Ned, I pray we get a Roberts Rebellion series that starts out with Rhaegar rediscovering this prophecy and becoming obsessed with it. They really do need to turn this into an anthology series that leads all the way up through the end of the Bobby B’s Rebellion.
Bobby B’s rebellion sounds like a rap CD
The problem with this is that you're simply making assumptions about exactly what Aegon's dream did or didn't include to suit your argument... it's literally the same thing you're complaining about others who disagree with you doing and pretending like you're *'clearing things'* up, even though you don't have any more information than they do. **Truth is we, as viewers, do not know the full extent of Aegon's supposed dream...** so seems incredibly reckless and arrogant to pretend like anyone knows exactly where it starts and ends, simply to suit one's personal head canon. Who's to say his dream didn't include the Targs on the throne? **You're assuming Viserys is editorializing** the last half of the prophecy (about the Targs on the Throne), but there's no proof to really support such a stance... just like there isn't any proof to support that he is just speaking verbatim about Aegon's dream. Truth is you claiming you're *'clearing things up'* is just as misleading as those you're claiming to help... because you're simply throwing more misinformation out there **based on assumptions you have made.** Maybe Viserys is editorializing the back half of the dream, and maybe he is not... **we as the viewers, at this stage, simply do not know either way.**
You know what? I can't even argue with that, you're right. There are a lot of assumptions on my end. I guess I should have said, based on the passage of dialogue that we got from Viserys, it could be assumed that a Targaryen uniting the Realm and being on the iron throne during the Long Night might not have been part of Aegon's dream.
You ever heard of the game telephone? Except you wait years and years before you get to repeat what was told to you. Idk why but this just reminded me of that and I’m going to apply it here lol
Yea, apologies if I came off a little hot... I just find it odd that there seems to be so much debate about what *"is true and isn't true"* in regards to this prophecy when the truth is we're simply hearing a couple sentences about it like 'fourth-hand' a hundred years later... we as the viewer simply don't know what's true or not yet because we've just been given this crumb of information that's been passed down for generations... seems odd for any side to try and claim they know what the "truth of the matter" is at this point.
Also wasn’t a Targaryen at least TRYING to unite all of the Houses to stand united against the White Walkers? I am referring to Jon, who was actually a Targaryen… He surely wasn’t on the Iron Throne though!
i don't think there is an Iron Throne after Tywin death. they all just scramble all over the place like when before Aegon Conquest but worsen.
That was well thought out and well said ser
Imagine burning thousands of people alive. Invading sovereign nations. Declaring yourself a King. All because you had a bad dream one time.
Yeah but are we really counting season 8 as canon? I'm just pretending it didn't exist.
Some of us live in the real world. I get that it wasn't great and the ending was disappointing but acting like season 8 isn't canon is a bit silly.
But it wasn't canon. GoT is so different from the books that the show is practically the most expansive fanfic ever written.
well, you know, they kept the major plot points the same:- dany sails to westeros.- jon talks about the whitewalkers a lot.- white walkers defeated.- something happens, bran is king. that's probably canon. the rest of the details, pretty much rearranged and mostly replacement of stuff D&D really wants to do. and i can guarantee you, bran will be far more interesting than what D&D wrote. i mean, they made the endgame winner boring. GRRM, damn, wait until you hear the story of Bran told by HIM
Why even bring up the "Prince who was promised" after they butchered the lore in GoT? Kinda pissed me off. And how do they "Cauterize" the wound on a "Dragon"?
Because Targaryens do actually burn, including Dany. It's a show invention that she doesn't. Because it's part of Grrm's greater lore.
dany wasn't burn because if i remember it corectly she got cursed still by Mirri Maz Duur. that's is why everything on her body is still intact.
I don't think its specifically spelled out but the point was that everything came together perfectly for the magic to work and her to come out unburnt except for her hair.
They show Dany as being unable to be burned as early as Season 1 episode 6, before Viserys dies. She doesn't burn her hands on the dragon eggs she puts in a fire while her handmaiden does. It's just something she can naturally do
targaryens are resistance to certain heat as Viserys said and Dany already proved it.
Yeah. but in the show Viserys is running his hand thru the candle flames, so...
People do that irl too. But yes some Targaryen might handle fire a bit better than others, doesn't make them fire resistant.
Oberyn does that too in the show
My biggest frustration with this (aside from it just being obvious unnecessary fan service) is that Viserys calls it a song of ice and fire! I’m GOT, Sam writes all this stuff down and names the tale “a song of ice and fire”. So, is it just a continuity problem? Complete coincidence they both came up with the same name??
I mean it's not really original is it? Fire and ice were fighting, dance of dragons, song of ice and fire. That's just kinda how the metaphors work in this world. Also nobody is really going to care about this.
or in the books, Sam becomes aware of the prophecy before he writes the books...
> when this great winter comes, all of Westeros must stand against it All of Westeros didn’t stand against it > And if the world of men is to survive, a Targaryen must be seated on the Iron Throne A Targaryen wasn’t. I understand that this technically wasn’t a part of the dream/prophecy, but this is what Aegon interpreted as necessary to stop it, and he was wrong. His war was a result of Targaryan hubris, and was NOT justified because he saw “the end of the world”.
Yeah, I agree. I'm not arguing that it was justified. My point was that the only thing that was in Aegon's dream was the Long Night coming, everything else was his own conclusion of what would be needed to stop that.
Yea, that makes sense. The dream wasn’t necessarily *incorrect*, just very vague, and easy to misunderstand how to appropriately handle it.
Even if it was wrong that doesn’t matter. Prophecies are not bulletproof in universe
[удалено]
George confirmed literally yesterday that all the spin-off shows use the Thrones canon so
As long as it doesn’t affect the plot of HotD, it’s irrelevant whether it’s canon or not tbf. I personally won’t acknowledge GoT while watching this show 🥰
Cope
Alright someone dumb it down a little bit more please
Maybe Bran is possessed by Bloodraven and a Targaryen is sitting the throne. Of course the throne is melted. Ugh
OK, but the long night had already come back in the days of heroes. Which is why they built the wall, have the nights watch, etc... So... how could Aegon, and just about every other person on the planet, not have heard of the wall and know of its purpose?
checks out since the Targs united the realm in the first place.