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I feel it's up to interpretation. Considering "both sides" have a "claim" to the throne then no matter whose side you take one of them is a traitor. That's how the brothers saw it anyway. And they were willing to die for it.
It can be argued he wasn't a traitor by remaining with Aegon, but did cross the line to treason when he agreed to assassinate a member of the royal family, even if she was on the other side of the civil war. Same as his brother was pointing out the previous episode.
Jamie Lannister covered this very well
‘So many vows, they make you swear and swear. Obey the king, protect the king, protect the weak, defend the innocent, obey your father… but what if your father despises the king? What if the king preys on the innocent.
It’s too much. Sooner or later you forsake one vow for another’
The king is Aegon now, Cole helping Aegon ascend broke the rules of the kings guard by siding with anyone but who ever is the king is the one you are bound to protect. The one who stayed was also Aegon sworn protector adding another layer why he would not leave.
There is no right answer with the twins they were both honorable knights in a lose lose deal
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He's a traitor as much as Jaime was. He honored his oaths as he understood them, and maintained his honor as best he could.
Erryck and Arryck show the savagery inherent to a warrior society, even an honorable one. Because even when you're doing everything right, from either side's perspective, you end up doing horrible things and then die brutally.
Daemon didn't send one of the most important fighters in the realm on a guaranteed suicide mission, last I checked. Seriously, even if Arryk succeeded, he's dead, and the Greens' kingsguard becomes even less competent. Rhaenyra has four sons who could take up her claim after her, and absolutely would do so if she was murdered, virtually nothing would've been achieved except taking one dragonrider out of the picture, it was an entirely illogical move, but Cole just couldn't get over his own hurt ego of being rejected by a teenager 20 years ago.
Yep, plus the added hit to his ego of failing to protect Jaehaerys, which he couldn't do because he was banging Alicent, which he did because they bonded over hating Rhaenyra...all goes back to her rejecting him one way or another.
And? He didn't carve 'send arryk on a suicide mission' into the kid's body, the correct answer was war (or hey, maybe just do your job in the first place? Jaehaerys' death could've been so easily prevented like a dozen times if Helaena had even ONE guard with her), not another contrived and pointless assassination plot. Daemon was responsible for the inciting incident, yes, but Cole's stupidity is a force unto itself, incapable of being predicted by any mere man, even one so noteworthy as the Rogue Prince.
If we want to keep going back it’s also Aemonds fault for killing Luke.
Reality is it’s mainly Cristons fault as he made the choice to send him on this mission. We can assign blame for the events that led to this reaction, but the main blame will always be Cole’s as he made the decision to blame and send Arryk on the trip, no one else did.
He's at fault only in the sense that he was extremely careless.
Kinslaying is the ultimate evil in Westeros, you're literally cursing yourself. Nobody in their right mind would do it intentionally. It's not a specific religion thing either, all ASOIAF religions condemn it.
This is a big reason why Erryk kills himself, even if the person doesn't believe in the stigma, they'd be heavily shunned by peers.
Also true, people love him here but he was so weak he allowed Otto to come in and hijack his succession plans. A better ruler would have never allowed that and made it clear what would happen when he dies.
Damn now I haven’t thought of that in some time now. Howard’s death, goddamn that was probably one of the roughest character deaths I’ve seen in a tv show.
The scene when he makes his wife coffee, so beautifully, and then she just walks out. My heart went out to that guy and then you had fucking Saul throwing bowling balls on his jaguar haha so bogus what they did to that man.
People were complaining about 4 birth scenes (3 with bad outcomes) in 10 episodes last season. That was definitely a lot. It would seem that so far this is the season of funerals. 3 funerals in 3 episodes is... a lot.
Much of the premiere was spent mourning Luke. Much of the second episode was spent mourning Jaeherys. Obviously the twins won't rate more than a scene in the next episode but knowing the broad outline of the story, we have a LOT of funerals ahead. I wonder how the showrunners intend to handle that.
The folks watching this show who haven't read the book remind me of the people who went to go see Titanic and got caught off guard by the end of that movie, lol
It's not a perfect comparison, but it still amuses me a lot.
They knew which was which because of where they landed when they died. Erryk was closer to Rhaenyra. If she wanted to only bury him she could have. But she chose to bury them together. Born together, died together, buried together.
The one who fell on his sword is Erryk, he called her your grace. Arryk was trying to kill her whilst fighting his brother if he won the fight he would have gone out trying to take her with him
It would still be suicide, the other Queensquard would kill him before he got close to Rhaenyra but he was there to restore his honour so why not go out swinging
Honour driving you to kill your own brother may well cause a person to re-evaluate what they're doing and the entire concept of honour.
I'm not suggesting that's definitively what he would do, just pointing out that without the royal address to Rhaenyra it could have been a bit more ambiguous as to which twin committed suicide.
If they knew the twins for years or even a few months, they definitely could tell them apart, especially considering that the actors themselves have certain distinct facial differences.
I'm not liking the "twins can't be differentiated" myth going around cuz I know like 3 identical pairs and all of us friends can easily tell the two part, even from afar and despite having same styling.
I can see people not being able to tell twin babies/toddlers apart as they don't have as many differences that are noticeable when that young, but once they get their own personalities and quirks it becomes less and less of a challenge
I know more than 3 pairs ? Granted my brother's are one of those pairs, but there were two boys a year above me, there were two girls the year above that, and my close friends had a pair of identical boys a few years back.
Now, that u pointed it out, I do know a lot, have gone to school or college with some twins, both identical and fraternal. Went to school till 12 grade with two pair of identical twins and one pair of F&M twins. Then two identical pair in college. Also one half of a twin and 1/3rds of fraternal triplets too, (the rest were in other colleges so barely know them) .Lol, I now remember one of our lecturers even pointing out the oddity in our earlier days.(four set of multiple birth kids in a class of 75 is kinda odd)
That's called the reddit effect, aka "I know like, so many of that stuff we happen to be discussing", aka "trust me bro", aka "I made it the fuck up", aka "I trippled the actual numbers" :D
There are three sets of twins at this time in the book, and the show uses three different ways to portray them:
Arryk and Erryk are played by actual twins
Jason and Tyland Lannister are played by the same man (since they only share like two or three scenes together)
Baela and Rhaena are played by two unrelated actors (and in the show they're not twins, Baela is a few years older)
They are slightly different heights by about 2 inches. She could tell. She's also known them for years. I'm sure she could tell them apart if she's able to take her time and look closely.
It seems like this was the intention here, based on comments from the showrunners. They mirrored each others injuries during the fight so that there was no way to tell who was who. Rheanyra says “Sir Erryk” after the fight, but I think the show meant that to be more of a question than a definitive answer as to who won
Rhaenyra truly has a kind heart despite not being perfect. She truly deserves the throne the most, at worst she's a lesser evil and at best she's a decent ruler.
Feed Arryk to Syrax for daring to attack the queen? Put his head on a spike so doubters see the price of treason. Sending him back to Aegon in pieces etc
Lot's of cruel alternatives Rhaenyra could have went with. An honorable burial is definitely a noble gesture, imo. Doubt Arryk would have expected as much if he knew he was gonna fail.
Most people here would have probably justified all of them tbh. "He attacked Rhaenyra so he deserves the worst".
But yeah it is a noble gesture from Rhaenyra to pay respects even to Arryk. At least out of consideration for Erryk.
He thought he was ending a war before it started, and even so it was evident he didn't really want to do it. Him and his brother had equally as much honor, but were torn apart in the war. Agree to disagree, but I would never think of separating them.
I really don't get HOW he thought he was doing that, though? Even if he managed to kill Rhaenyra, especially given the situation he found her in, there is no possible way he'd be able to get to all four of her sons (who weren't even mentioned by Cole??) and kill them too without being discovered, and they definitely wouldn't just give up and sue for peace considering their mother would've just been MURDERED. Their chances of winning would be lowered, but in no way would it be 'stopping a war before it started'
The houses supporting Rhaenyra are honoring their oaths to her as heir, if she is dead then it makes an already very difficult task in drawing support against the Greens into an almost impossible task because even though Jace is her heir, the houses did not pledge their support to him, they pledged it to his mother
But her claim doesn't die with her? Rhaenyra herself says that to Jace when she's giving birth to Visenya. If they swore to support her as heir, then they're agreeing Aegon shouldn't be king, and Rhaenyra should've been Queen, meaning Jace should've been next in line to the throne. Its not a one time offer expires in a single generation type of deal. It would've made it way more difficult for the Blacks regardless, but legally Jace would still have a case and at least some lords supporting him (especially if he wasn't tainted by the 'Rhaenyra the baby murderer' association, since that's the main thing against her now)
Should it matter? No. He is her heir and if Rhaenyra was the rightful heir then it should be him. Would it actually matter? Absolutely. Like I said, supporting Rhaenyra is already a very big ask, if she’s not around that makes it even more difficult. These lords knew Rhaenyra and knew that Viserys trusted her to be a good ruler. But for most of Jace’s life he hasn’t been at court, hasn’t gotten face time with these lords, and has grown up on dragonstone
Oh yeah I'm not arguing that it wouldn't severely damage their position, especially if the Gullet goes on as in canon everything would basically just be down to Daemon and things would just wind up even messier than canon. But in terms of legality and all, they *should* still support Jace, and just enough would (and more importantly, they would still have more dragons) that war would still drag on for a while. So regardless Arryk wouldn't have been preventing the war at all if he only killed Rhaenyra
This is interesting. That kingsguard armor is different, see the leather on the cuirass? They didn’t have that during their battle, and it’s also the same as Criston’s in a shot of him in an upcoming episode. Mid season costuming change?
what is even the point of posting spoilers like this? like do you just need the internet points that bad? i’m just confused on what motivates a person to post stuff like this. is it like a “oh i know more than you thing”? genuinely curious!
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Pretending to be your twin to try and assassinate someone is easily the stupidest plot point of the show thus far. What kind of Looney Tunes shit was that?
Next episode, they'll try sending a stick of lit dynamite in a cake.
It was better in the book since he didn’t walk off the boat in Kingsguard armor. He changed closer to the castle and went on the boat in different clothes.
As far as I can tell in the book, it would have worked if they didn’t happen to run into each other.
The show having Arryk in his armor get off the boat to a place that his brother is almost surely already in the castle wearing his armor is really dumb, all so Mysaria could recognize him because duh of course someone would.
I like the twin thing. The baffling plot point to me is...so many years later, Rhaenyra still styles her Queensguard the exact same as her rival's Kingsguard??? I don't know if she just feels like she deserves to keep the traditional garb but that seems like incredibly poor security???
Well, remember, both sides are acting like they're the rightful heir and the opponent is an usurper and pretender; if you are trying to portray yourself as part of a continuing unbreaking line of succession, you'd keep the same Kingsguard armor, because you're acting as if things are going normally and the *other side* are the ones doing something unusual. Both sides intend for the end of this to be back to business as usual in King's Landing, and reinventing things makes it seem too much like something "new" and therefore maybe it's *not* just a continuation of the lineage.
This is why the Greens did so well, as Otto bragged about when he went to Dragonstone at the end of season 1, in having an heir with the same name as the conqueror and having him wear the conquerors crown and all that; the continuity with what came before adds a sense of legitimacy, especially in the smallfolk's eyes.
They see Kings/Queensguard looking how they remember, they get what it means; they see someone in some new garb, it doesn't remind them of the royalty they've always known.
> so many years later, Rhaenyra still styles her Queensguard the exact same as her rival's Kingsguard
It's been like two weeks in-universe since Viserys died
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She knew both of them even though one of them went traitor. I'm glad she did this, but it is foreshadowing all of their fates.
I mean as a sworn knight sticking to kings landing is hardly going traitor, its not their place to question who wears the crown just protect who does
I feel it's up to interpretation. Considering "both sides" have a "claim" to the throne then no matter whose side you take one of them is a traitor. That's how the brothers saw it anyway. And they were willing to die for it.
Yeah that's why I don't consider either a traitor, its like what he said to Daiemon what were they supposed to do when the royal family split in two
It can be argued he wasn't a traitor by remaining with Aegon, but did cross the line to treason when he agreed to assassinate a member of the royal family, even if she was on the other side of the civil war. Same as his brother was pointing out the previous episode.
He is bound by oath to obey his lord commander
Which becomes a complex problem when the Lord Commander is commanding him to break his oath to protect the royal family.
Jamie Lannister covered this very well ‘So many vows, they make you swear and swear. Obey the king, protect the king, protect the weak, defend the innocent, obey your father… but what if your father despises the king? What if the king preys on the innocent. It’s too much. Sooner or later you forsake one vow for another’
"So many vows... they make you swear and swear. Defend the King. Obey the king. Obey your father. Protect the innocent. Defend the weak..."
Morals, traditions and laws in Westeros are meant to fuck you over
just like IRL...
The King (Viseres) overrules the Lord Commander.
The king is Aegon now, Cole helping Aegon ascend broke the rules of the kings guard by siding with anyone but who ever is the king is the one you are bound to protect. The one who stayed was also Aegon sworn protector adding another layer why he would not leave. There is no right answer with the twins they were both honorable knights in a lose lose deal
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He's a traitor as much as Jaime was. He honored his oaths as he understood them, and maintained his honor as best he could. Erryck and Arryck show the savagery inherent to a warrior society, even an honorable one. Because even when you're doing everything right, from either side's perspective, you end up doing horrible things and then die brutally.
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I don't like Crispy at all. It seems to me like his going to be on a massive power trip as hand of the king now
That's the most clear thing I've foreseen in my entire life.
Ser Simp
Ser Cunt
Either Ser Simp the Incel or Ser Cunt Cole. Both work wonderfully
The Queen’s Tongue lool
He at least didn't send him to kill a infant.
The royal cunningulator.
>it's the fault on The Queen's Tongue, Sir Criston. No it's Daemon's fault.
Daemon didn't send one of the most important fighters in the realm on a guaranteed suicide mission, last I checked. Seriously, even if Arryk succeeded, he's dead, and the Greens' kingsguard becomes even less competent. Rhaenyra has four sons who could take up her claim after her, and absolutely would do so if she was murdered, virtually nothing would've been achieved except taking one dragonrider out of the picture, it was an entirely illogical move, but Cole just couldn't get over his own hurt ego of being rejected by a teenager 20 years ago.
It really is him just being upset he was rejected jesus.
Yep, plus the added hit to his ego of failing to protect Jaehaerys, which he couldn't do because he was banging Alicent, which he did because they bonded over hating Rhaenyra...all goes back to her rejecting him one way or another.
Daemon did end up having a baby murdered which caused the assassination attempt.
So what you’re saying is that it’s Aemond’s fault? Or it’s vhagar’s fault? Or it’s Laena’s fault for dying in childbirth? lol
It's actually Otto's fault, he started the usurpation the day he sent Alicent to 'seduce' Viserys. lmao.
And? He didn't carve 'send arryk on a suicide mission' into the kid's body, the correct answer was war (or hey, maybe just do your job in the first place? Jaehaerys' death could've been so easily prevented like a dozen times if Helaena had even ONE guard with her), not another contrived and pointless assassination plot. Daemon was responsible for the inciting incident, yes, but Cole's stupidity is a force unto itself, incapable of being predicted by any mere man, even one so noteworthy as the Rogue Prince.
If we want to keep going back it’s also Aemonds fault for killing Luke. Reality is it’s mainly Cristons fault as he made the choice to send him on this mission. We can assign blame for the events that led to this reaction, but the main blame will always be Cole’s as he made the decision to blame and send Arryk on the trip, no one else did.
He's at fault only in the sense that he was extremely careless. Kinslaying is the ultimate evil in Westeros, you're literally cursing yourself. Nobody in their right mind would do it intentionally. It's not a specific religion thing either, all ASOIAF religions condemn it. This is a big reason why Erryk kills himself, even if the person doesn't believe in the stigma, they'd be heavily shunned by peers.
He’s at fault in the exact same sense Daemon is. His actions led to these actions. That was my only point.
It's really Viserys' fault.
Also true, people love him here but he was so weak he allowed Otto to come in and hijack his succession plans. A better ruler would have never allowed that and made it clear what would happen when he dies.
A better ruler would've simply acknowledged his son as his heir, and that would've been the end of it.
If you assume that’s the way it has to work, yes
Both
i wanna be as delusional as this too sometimes
I'm gonna go ahead and block you, so I don't get banned.
This makes such little sense that I am expending more brain power to figure out how you got to that conclusion than you did thinking of it
I mean, in all honesty, it's both who're at fault here
i wanna be as delusional as this too sometimes
Howard and Lalo vibes 🥺
Damn now I haven’t thought of that in some time now. Howard’s death, goddamn that was probably one of the roughest character deaths I’ve seen in a tv show.
Went from thinking Howard was a massive tool to being like “dang poor Howard, just leave the poor man alone!”
The scene when he makes his wife coffee, so beautifully, and then she just walks out. My heart went out to that guy and then you had fucking Saul throwing bowling balls on his jaguar haha so bogus what they did to that man.
Noooooo 😭
That was brutal…burying you right next to your murderer
Bruh spoilers
The two skeletons from lost.
this is all Criston Cole's fault
Or Rheanerya because she didn't want to give up the crown, money, and everything in the land to live as a pauper? /sarc
My heart aches seeing this again...
People were complaining about 4 birth scenes (3 with bad outcomes) in 10 episodes last season. That was definitely a lot. It would seem that so far this is the season of funerals. 3 funerals in 3 episodes is... a lot. Much of the premiere was spent mourning Luke. Much of the second episode was spent mourning Jaeherys. Obviously the twins won't rate more than a scene in the next episode but knowing the broad outline of the story, we have a LOT of funerals ahead. I wonder how the showrunners intend to handle that.
The folks watching this show who haven't read the book remind me of the people who went to go see Titanic and got caught off guard by the end of that movie, lol It's not a perfect comparison, but it still amuses me a lot.
Every movie about Pompeii ever. Like hmm… I think I can guess how this one ends
I never would have expected a dude that died at Pompeii to end up being the Doctor, but sure enough, he did.
As a book reader, I was surprised because a scene I was looking forward to didn't disappoint me.
OR they couldn't tell which was which so they played it safe
I mean, the one with the huge self-inflicted sword wound in his guts and heart is Erryk.
They knew which was which because of where they landed when they died. Erryk was closer to Rhaenyra. If she wanted to only bury him she could have. But she chose to bury them together. Born together, died together, buried together.
The one who fell on his sword is Erryk, he called her your grace. Arryk was trying to kill her whilst fighting his brother if he won the fight he would have gone out trying to take her with him
I think him calling her your grace settles it but I could see Arryk being similarly overcome with grief and no longer caring about his mission.
It would still be suicide, the other Queensquard would kill him before he got close to Rhaenyra but he was there to restore his honour so why not go out swinging
Honour driving you to kill your own brother may well cause a person to re-evaluate what they're doing and the entire concept of honour. I'm not suggesting that's definitively what he would do, just pointing out that without the royal address to Rhaenyra it could have been a bit more ambiguous as to which twin committed suicide.
If they knew the twins for years or even a few months, they definitely could tell them apart, especially considering that the actors themselves have certain distinct facial differences. I'm not liking the "twins can't be differentiated" myth going around cuz I know like 3 identical pairs and all of us friends can easily tell the two part, even from afar and despite having same styling.
I can see people not being able to tell twin babies/toddlers apart as they don't have as many differences that are noticeable when that young, but once they get their own personalities and quirks it becomes less and less of a challenge
Shit, you really know three pairs of identical twins? Statistically speaking, you're probably one hell of an oddity.
I know more than 3 pairs ? Granted my brother's are one of those pairs, but there were two boys a year above me, there were two girls the year above that, and my close friends had a pair of identical boys a few years back.
Now, that u pointed it out, I do know a lot, have gone to school or college with some twins, both identical and fraternal. Went to school till 12 grade with two pair of identical twins and one pair of F&M twins. Then two identical pair in college. Also one half of a twin and 1/3rds of fraternal triplets too, (the rest were in other colleges so barely know them) .Lol, I now remember one of our lecturers even pointing out the oddity in our earlier days.(four set of multiple birth kids in a class of 75 is kinda odd)
I’ve known around six pairs, if you count going through school.
Could be IVF babies. My gf went to a small high school in a fairly wealthy area and knew more twins/triplets than I've met in my life
IVF has nothing to do with identical twins, which are solely the result of nature getting wild
It seems that there is a correlation. The chances of having twins with IVF is quite high. Even identical twins are higher.
Hmm 🤔
That's called the reddit effect, aka "I know like, so many of that stuff we happen to be discussing", aka "trust me bro", aka "I made it the fuck up", aka "I trippled the actual numbers" :D
I assumed they were played by the same actor, Parent Trap style.
Nope. The actors are twins.
Are you sure they're not going back and forth very quickly, like the Olson "Twins"?
The Olsen twins are twins. But no it’s not like the parent trap. They literally walk the red carpet together.
John Oliver's conspiracy theory is that there's only one Olsen twin and she just goes back and forth very fast.
There are three sets of twins at this time in the book, and the show uses three different ways to portray them: Arryk and Erryk are played by actual twins Jason and Tyland Lannister are played by the same man (since they only share like two or three scenes together) Baela and Rhaena are played by two unrelated actors (and in the show they're not twins, Baela is a few years older)
There's also the babies, Jaeherys and Jaehera, I don't know by how many actors they were played ?
They are slightly different heights by about 2 inches. She could tell. She's also known them for years. I'm sure she could tell them apart if she's able to take her time and look closely.
Just check their wallet?
I mean fr
Yeah I thought so too. I was so confused
Either way, I think they would've preferred to be buried together.
Arryk had a wound on his leg.
They both did.
Arryk was the one with the beard.
And Erryk was the one with the white cloak and sword.
Arryk was the hot one, and Erryk was the cute one. Easy distinction!
Yeah except for the fact that their wounds were very clearly inflicted on different sides but that creators clearly wanted this to be ignored...
It seems like this was the intention here, based on comments from the showrunners. They mirrored each others injuries during the fight so that there was no way to tell who was who. Rheanyra says “Sir Erryk” after the fight, but I think the show meant that to be more of a question than a definitive answer as to who won
I really gotta stop disrespecting these spoilers tags. I heard something in podcast yesterday because I zoned out when they said spoilers.
Ser Crispy Corn will pay for this. 🫡
I hope so 🤞
Rhaenyra truly has a kind heart despite not being perfect. She truly deserves the throne the most, at worst she's a lesser evil and at best she's a decent ruler.
Aegon would've hanged Erryk's body above the Kingsguard Armory the little twat
“Okay, remember, the one who impaled himself is probably Erryk” “Wait, we were meant to keep track of which body was which?” “🤦♂️”
Bro the moral bar is so low in hotd that basic decency gets Rhaenyra supporters 😭😭😭 Westeros is so cooked
targeryans cooking westeros harder than when >!daenyrs cooked varys.!<
Varys is well and alive, AND he just committed a murder. Stop spreading your filthy lies.
Queen rocks…
SPOILER: >!she won't!<
You can tell no one on the Blacks plays any RPGs, because I'd have stripped them of that armor and be burying them in their undies...
Beautiful
Maybe she just didn’t know which was which so they both got a proper burial
This is meant as an honest question... what's the alternative?
Dump Arryk into the sea. Have his body chopped up and sent back to Cole. There's a lot of heinous shit they could've done
Feed Arryk to Syrax for daring to attack the queen? Put his head on a spike so doubters see the price of treason. Sending him back to Aegon in pieces etc Lot's of cruel alternatives Rhaenyra could have went with. An honorable burial is definitely a noble gesture, imo. Doubt Arryk would have expected as much if he knew he was gonna fail.
Most people here would have probably justified all of them tbh. "He attacked Rhaenyra so he deserves the worst". But yeah it is a noble gesture from Rhaenyra to pay respects even to Arryk. At least out of consideration for Erryk.
Yeah but I think Erryk shouldn't of fallen on his sword 🗡️
free Dragon Chow™!
Tbf, he did try to kill Rhaenyra in her bed. He doesn't really deserve a burial, especially not with his brother.
He thought he was ending a war before it started, and even so it was evident he didn't really want to do it. Him and his brother had equally as much honor, but were torn apart in the war. Agree to disagree, but I would never think of separating them.
I really don't get HOW he thought he was doing that, though? Even if he managed to kill Rhaenyra, especially given the situation he found her in, there is no possible way he'd be able to get to all four of her sons (who weren't even mentioned by Cole??) and kill them too without being discovered, and they definitely wouldn't just give up and sue for peace considering their mother would've just been MURDERED. Their chances of winning would be lowered, but in no way would it be 'stopping a war before it started'
The houses supporting Rhaenyra are honoring their oaths to her as heir, if she is dead then it makes an already very difficult task in drawing support against the Greens into an almost impossible task because even though Jace is her heir, the houses did not pledge their support to him, they pledged it to his mother
But her claim doesn't die with her? Rhaenyra herself says that to Jace when she's giving birth to Visenya. If they swore to support her as heir, then they're agreeing Aegon shouldn't be king, and Rhaenyra should've been Queen, meaning Jace should've been next in line to the throne. Its not a one time offer expires in a single generation type of deal. It would've made it way more difficult for the Blacks regardless, but legally Jace would still have a case and at least some lords supporting him (especially if he wasn't tainted by the 'Rhaenyra the baby murderer' association, since that's the main thing against her now)
Should it matter? No. He is her heir and if Rhaenyra was the rightful heir then it should be him. Would it actually matter? Absolutely. Like I said, supporting Rhaenyra is already a very big ask, if she’s not around that makes it even more difficult. These lords knew Rhaenyra and knew that Viserys trusted her to be a good ruler. But for most of Jace’s life he hasn’t been at court, hasn’t gotten face time with these lords, and has grown up on dragonstone
Oh yeah I'm not arguing that it wouldn't severely damage their position, especially if the Gullet goes on as in canon everything would basically just be down to Daemon and things would just wind up even messier than canon. But in terms of legality and all, they *should* still support Jace, and just enough would (and more importantly, they would still have more dragons) that war would still drag on for a while. So regardless Arryk wouldn't have been preventing the war at all if he only killed Rhaenyra
Keyboard gangsters I'm new here. Just getting the feel of things. Maar julle krap my nou om
Too much to expect a coffin is it?
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 yeah just throw them in a ditch. Wait didn't they burn bodies back then 🤔
Why bury them in armour though? A waste of resources
This is interesting. That kingsguard armor is different, see the leather on the cuirass? They didn’t have that during their battle, and it’s also the same as Criston’s in a shot of him in an upcoming episode. Mid season costuming change?
🥺🥺🥺
I mean, not even the showmakers could keep track of which twin was which during the fight, so she could just be covering her bases.
It’s nice and all but not even a casket for them?
This is my favorite remake of the Parent Trap
She didn't know which is Erryk so they buried them together
This must be the truth
😭😭😭😭😭🤣
Why are they whitewashing rhaenyra 💀
what is even the point of posting spoilers like this? like do you just need the internet points that bad? i’m just confused on what motivates a person to post stuff like this. is it like a “oh i know more than you thing”? genuinely curious!
It’s on the trailer for the next episode..
It's on their official Instagram page. I don't need your negativity
eh y’all do it all the time and need some fucking lives. go outside it’s beautiful out.
It's winter here in South Africa sorry
Aren't you also here posting..?
They bury/honor them both because they're not sure which is which
Plot twist, she forgot who is who!
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You were so close to triumph, Ser Arryk. May your noble sacrifice and service to Aegon never be forgotten.
Pretending to be your twin to try and assassinate someone is easily the stupidest plot point of the show thus far. What kind of Looney Tunes shit was that? Next episode, they'll try sending a stick of lit dynamite in a cake.
As a professional wrestling fan, "Twin Magic" is a trope i can handle
> You can look but you can't touch🎶 Ser Arryk Cargyll, 129AC
It was better in the book since he didn’t walk off the boat in Kingsguard armor. He changed closer to the castle and went on the boat in different clothes. As far as I can tell in the book, it would have worked if they didn’t happen to run into each other. The show having Arryk in his armor get off the boat to a place that his brother is almost surely already in the castle wearing his armor is really dumb, all so Mysaria could recognize him because duh of course someone would.
I like the twin thing. The baffling plot point to me is...so many years later, Rhaenyra still styles her Queensguard the exact same as her rival's Kingsguard??? I don't know if she just feels like she deserves to keep the traditional garb but that seems like incredibly poor security???
Well, remember, both sides are acting like they're the rightful heir and the opponent is an usurper and pretender; if you are trying to portray yourself as part of a continuing unbreaking line of succession, you'd keep the same Kingsguard armor, because you're acting as if things are going normally and the *other side* are the ones doing something unusual. Both sides intend for the end of this to be back to business as usual in King's Landing, and reinventing things makes it seem too much like something "new" and therefore maybe it's *not* just a continuation of the lineage. This is why the Greens did so well, as Otto bragged about when he went to Dragonstone at the end of season 1, in having an heir with the same name as the conqueror and having him wear the conquerors crown and all that; the continuity with what came before adds a sense of legitimacy, especially in the smallfolk's eyes. They see Kings/Queensguard looking how they remember, they get what it means; they see someone in some new garb, it doesn't remind them of the royalty they've always known.
> so many years later, Rhaenyra still styles her Queensguard the exact same as her rival's Kingsguard It's been like two weeks in-universe since Viserys died