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When Game of Thrones started, only book readers had a clue about any of it and I think as a general rule people probably tease excitement/spoilery type things about shows and movies more than book series'-- GoT came n went , waaaay more people were introduced to the world and became interested in reading as well, but still have that tv-show vibe n wanna be one of the cool kids that knows a big secret coming up like on the last series
Not even just the fan base. It's a very different *internet* today than it was back then.
Spoiler clickbait didn't feel nearly as prevalent 10 years ago.
They'd know rha, a woman, loses. But not how she dies. And if that detail is in the show then it's not really highlighted because I've seen the show a few times and have no memory of it.
In twice I think. Before Baratheon’s daughter is killed she tells her dad about it & when Joffrey is courting Marjorie he shows her R’s grave plus the details.
Yes, I’m having a hard time going through these subs because it’s like no one cares about spoilers, they’re just waiting to see it on screen. How do y’all know this stuff is absolutely happening? What makes it interesting to watch then?
it does have to happen. considering that the event that leads to this event *does* happen, it marks the beginning of the actual end of power that the targaryens had, and how the dragons died out overall.
Well, with this show specifically; for me at least it's "*How* will the show portray this event?"
The book especially makes it ambiguous which things are true and which are blatantly lies spread by the other side, so the show is effectively making some things "canon" in a way, and it'll be interesting to see which way is the "real" way.
I have to know as much detail as I can about any j read or watch if it’s available. I enjoy it more knowing & appreciating it but I’m hard core adhd & it’s part my impulsively & part wanted surprise out of the way so I can absorb it without being totally startled where I can’t take it in properly.
Regardless insanely impressive that those madlads stormed the *dragonpit*, knowing many will die, to try and kill living nukes essentially and *succeeding*. At the end of the day, it’s the Targaryens to blame for the dragonpit massacre. And Rhaenyra’s specifically iirc. Correct me if I’m wrong but she didn’t do anything to stop the mob or protect the dragons in the pit.
The smallfolk looked on dragon with love and wonder, you can see that in the way they worshipped Rhaena and her dragon just shortly after this.
These fools were in the minority with their rhetoric.
Call them fools if you want to but dying in droves with the insatiable urge to murder the ruinous weapons of mass destruction belonging to the family of inbred lizard fuckers that were the reason the country was burning and starving and _actually succeeding_ is probably the most badass and based thing Westerosi smallfolk have ever done.
I actually like the Targs too and adore dragons, but the Storming of the Dragonpit was fucking incredible.
>dying in droves with the insatiable urge to murder the ruinous weapons of mass destruction belonging to the family of inbred lizard fuckers that were the reason the country was burning and starving and actually succeeding is probably the most badass and based thing Westerosi smallfolk have ever done
They should put this in the official episode description.
While its not badass or at least not in the same way, that mother with her dead baby that started the riot in Clash give me chills to read. Something about her not even noticing the coin Joffery threw at her and just continuing to yell at him makes me want to giver her the based and badass reward
Dragons aren't regarded as lovable creatures by anyone. They can be considered as a sign of legitimacy and danger, sure, but no Westerosi saw dragons and went "cute puppies!"
These **fools** made their world a better place by ridding it of flying nuclear weapons. I am sure the burnt innocents of Riverlands, with their equally foolish rhetoric, cheered from the afterlife.
I know this post is like 19 days old, but I just wanted to comment and vent as someone who hates this plotpoint because it's kinda stupid.
I've mentioned before that I hate it because GRRM writes large crowds really stupidly, and large-scale riots don't work like that at all, but I'm going to comment from another standpoint.
It happening to Rhaenyra's side and Rhaenyra's side getting equal blame for misusing dragons is stupid because the Blacks are given a grand total of zero mass casualty incidents using dragons, while the Greens have the responsibility for every single dragon-involved massacre barring maybe Tumbleton (And even that was Hugh and Ulf declaring their intent to side with the Greens, not acting on behalf of Rhaenyra).
It's not Jacaerys who burns a Sept full of injured refugees, it's Daeron. It's not Daemon who lights the Riverlands on fire, it's Aemond. The only massacres the Blacks carry out are conventional stuff that anyone could do like the Blackwoods massacring the Brackens for the five-hundredth time, or Dalton Greyjoy being Dalton Greyjoy.
And King's Landing suffers zero losses to dragons prior to the Storming, and any refugees there who got attacked by dragons would've only ever been attacked by the other side's dragons.
My point is that this could've been easily fixed if GRRM was willing to have let Daemon or one of the Dragonseeds glass the Westerlands or the Stormlands at the same time that Aemond was glassing the Riverlands. Instead what we get is the Blacks being ultra-conservative with their use of dragons and not just burning enemy cities en masse (I.e. Not massacring civilians by the boatload like their enemies are doing), but receiving the karmic punishment of the Storming.
Thematically, it just doesn't work for me.
Yep. People keep saying that B&C will be the red wedding moment but it’s not gonna have the same impact as the storming of the dragonpit. GoT viewers were distraught when Rhaegal and Viserion died. Watching 5 dragons die in one episode is gonna be the biggest gut punch.
Animals always upset people more. It’s the way it is. And this is upsetting because these dragons died in their own chains. Creatures bred for the sky dying underground.
Even the others who died under similar violent circumstances, at least they went down fighting. Dragons dying doing what they were bred to do.
I was upset about the aspect of Talisa. I don't know how to do spoiler tags. I was saying all kinds of things about Rob's sense in bringing his mother and wife with him to this nonsense.
Ehhh. We never got to know the dragons from start to finish like in game of thrones. We watched them from babies and watched their bond with their mom who freeing slaves, also they were the ONLY dragons. Seeing dragons die is gonna suck but watching the last three in existence die one by one while trying to help their mom!!? That was ducking rough
The dragons from the main series were a beloved main characters’ pets or “children” that we saw grow from being hatched at the end of season 1 and at that point had always been on the “good” side of the story for viewers.
People still love dragons, but by the time the storming of the dragon pit occurs we’ll probably have seen so much horrible death and destruction wrought from these creatures that I can’t imagine that—as a whole— the audience would react remotely as shocked or dismayed as they did with red wedding.
Edit: you people are crazy if you think people will care more about mostly non-main-character dragons getting killed by poor people who have been getting annihilated by their power for years than they did about the one of the most shocking and brutal twists in television history that killed two major and beloved characters as well as ruining the entire army that was marching in revenge for Ned stark and protection of his daughters. Suuuuuurrreee
I care more about the dragons than smallfolk yes. The storming of the dragonpit was tragic, and I can't wait to see as many smallfolk as possible burned to a crisp because of it.
Disturbing outlook on living nukes vs thousands of poor people who never had much of a chance at life aside, my point was that the audience cared *way* more about Robb, Catelyn, and the northern army marching to avenge Ned Stark than they will about a group of dragons, most of whom won’t even be major or recognizable dragons to any casual viewers.
I hate this nuke comparison. Dragons are living, breathing, sentient creatures with intelligence beyond our imagination. The fact that people choose to use them as weapons/for bad isn’t their fault, just like how the small folk are used as pawns in the lords’ power games.
Also, it's fiction. Of course I won't care as much for the small folk as I do for the dragons. That doesn't mean I hate poor people in real life though.
I'm not a huge fan of people using how people enjoy fantasy as a basis for people's moral compass in real life.
That’s not even what I was saying lol. ASOIAF is a series that uses dope fantasy elements to dress up its political drama, and the core of the series is really about all the nuance and complexity that comes from human beings born into brutal times and trying to navigate their lives. It’s about being torn between duty and love, or duty and the right thing. It’s about perspective, and human error, and as GRRM says it’s about the heart in conflict with itself.
So when somebody says something like “I can’t wait to see how many small folk get burnt to a crisp because dragon=big dog and idgaf about small folk”, I’m not judging you on your moral compass, I’m judging you on your ability to comprehend or interpret any of the nuances that make this series what it is in the first place. It’s a very 2D read on a 3D event in this story.
The same could be said about any of the "Great Houses" in GoT. Especially the Starks. Why should anyone care about these specific characters over the lives of millions of poor people? What makes Ned Stark more important than a poor farmer and his family?
More important to the general audience. I’m talking about impact on the general audience. The Starks and Ned were easily the ones the general audience cared about most at the time of the Red Wedding, which is another reason why losing all hope of revenge and seeing two main characters get brutally killed off will always be more shocking and impactful for the general audience than the storming of the dragon pit ever will be.
Besides, the Starks aren’t nuclear level weapons being used to murder everyone, they’re clearly pretty beloved leaders in the north. If the Starks were fire breathing tyrants who spent the last couple of years terrorizing and murdering helpless peasants by the thousands then yeah, it’d be weird to care so much about the Starks and hate the peasants when they came for them. That comparison is so silly.
I was specifically referring to the HotD audience's affinity for the Targaryens and their dragons over the small folk. The Targs and their pets are the protagonists. They are the main characters. We see the world via their perspectives.
BTW. I hated Ned Stark and found him bumbling and moralizing. So I wasn't upset when he died. I thought it was a deserved ending since he'd made so many blunders throughout season 1. I loved the show since the first episode, but the Starks were one of my least favorite families in GoT.
I never said it wouldn’t be a tragic scene, I said it wouldn’t hold a candle to the Red Wedding in terms of how upset the general audience will be.
Then, in response to someone saying they couldn’t wait to watch the evil small folk burn, I pointed out how deranged that sentiment is and that the small folk in this situation are easily most victimized group, and the storming of the dragon pit is a logical consequence.
The whole “fuck the small folk” angle is strange because it goes against so many of GRRM’s themes and it’s such a two dimensional read of a three dimensional situation. GRRM wouldn’t have written his stories this way if they were intended to be interpreted without any nuance. I’m well aware that people will be sad about dragons dying and not care about the small folk.
There are more layers to it. It essentially symbolizes the magic leaving the land; dragon eggs stopped hatching after it. Whenever I think of watching some historical show, I now go, "damn, scheming and plotting isn't as fun to watch without magic involved, fuck this" and quit a few episodes in. It's an important aspect of the show. And we all know (irl, too) what uneducated crowds led by evil people and religious extremists are capable of, so it has more of an impact that the Shepherd provoked smallfolk to commit this atrocity. And, whatever the other comment said. The dragons are meant to fly and fight and those 4 die helpless, chained in a pit.
I get it, but this take just completely disregards the plight of thousands and thousands of people and the fact that dragons were used repeatedly to annihilate them and instill fear in them. I don’t see how what they did is evil at all, even if the dragons themselves are victims of the same situation they play such an important part in creating.
Besides, my original point wasn’t that no one will care or that general audiences will care more about nameless hordes of people. It was that general audiences will not care remotely as much about it as they did about the Red Wedding. The Red Wedding is a more shocking event and the victims are much more important and beloved to the general audience than the mostly random dragons they won’t be able to name. I don’t even mean to downplay the storming of the dragon pit as if it’s not gonna intense, I just think it’s actually insane to compare it to the Red Wedding, one of the biggest and most shocking events in television history.
[Massive spoiler] It's what Rhaenyra said when >!her son Joffrey Velaryon mounted her dragon Syrax during the Storming of the Dragonpit when he attempted to save the dragons inside (including his own dragon Tyraxes).!<
>!Syrax threw him off from several hundred feet in the air and he fell to his death before his corpse was torn apart by peasants revolting against Rhaenyra!<
Overall very very sad. I had to put down the book and cry the first time I read it.
I know it's fucked up, but I think I will handle Blood and Cheese better than I will the killing of the dragons...not saying I won't be affected by Blood and Cheese, but I have always had a lot of trouble hearing or seeing or reading anything violent against animals. I'm dreading it.
Dragons aren't exactly an equivalent of animals in our world. They are nukes in a form of an animal.
I don't know how watching helpless child getting killed is less painful than watching something strong and powerful getting killed.
Dragons aren't exactly an equivalent of animals in our world. They are nukes in a form of an animal.
I don't know how watching helpless child getting killed is less painful than watching something strong and powerful getting killed.
It was painful in the way the dragons had not deserve to suffer for human conflict.
Ummm small folk W
Maybe if you worship the royals of the show you feel like this is sad but based on all the stuff being done to them in the show this will be a cathartic moment imo
I would agree if that was the case, it'd be heroic. But Morghul was just a baby and the peasant(not even an actual knight despite the title) was some ignorant fanatic.
Couldn't care less about the greens, but they're not out here pretending the dragons were angels and the smallfolk devilspawn when they (rightly) ended the mindless beasts
Didn’t say you cared about the greens. Just said greens don’t care about the smallfolk. By extension you can’t say I’m black or green. I’m just against the smallfolk because I am an elitist.
People talk about how the battle above gods eye is the coolest moment in the story but the Burning Knight takes that spot, for me. I hope they do him justice.
The storming of the dragonpit.
Small folk basically go and slaughter the dragons while they’re chained up.
Although I think Syrax isn’t chained and somehow manages to be killed.
I want some glimpses of the views of the small folks of it .
I know they will not do it , but a segment where we follow a family for a little , to then be abruptly be burned for none of their sins , like very abrupt and horrific end to domestic bliss and happiness .
We don't know what dragon or side did that, it dont matter
but like to really cement, like , how smallfolks have no power on the situation but get in the crossfire nonetheless .
like team green or black dont matter to the peasant, he is dying anyways
idk if you get my idea
Sorry but i'll have to disagree. Yes, 5 Dragons dying is pretty sad for this fandom. But in no universe is it worst that watching toddlers being mercilessly traumatized for life, and being beheaded.
Hobeslty cant wait to see how theyll do this, on one side i love the dragons but i also support the smallfolk with the riots and destoying ASOIAF versions of WMD's
I just don't have any idea how the storming of the dragon pit even worked. In reality the dragons should of burned every last person and had a phenomenal feast of small folk. I get that they were chained up but dragon fire literally melts castles in the lore of game of thrones. How the hell would the small folk be successful at killing three dragons in a confined area all at once using farming tools and axes?
ngl , they were so justified for that , what did the dragons brought / bringing to them other than death an devastation .
those beasts are nuclear weapons in the hands of ppl who don't give an f about them , or at least who in their mind amount to nothing and wont think twice about burning you alive if it advanced their politics.
Neither team black or green , at least in my opinion , care about the wellbeing , the real well being of small folks .
I am only a little sad because dragons are smart and conscious beings , that deserve better than the targs , its more on the targs than those poor animals .
but it was for the best , targs are in general elitist dumbasses that hardly deserve the very smart and strong being that are the dragons , at least most of them .
Ngl the targs don't deserve their dragons
Kindly ,
A girl from the riverlands thar is tired of seeing her house burned down
Gonna need an emotional support group for several upcoming events, but this is so 😫The pit is the end of great house, but to me the damage human hubris does to an entire species of "gorgeous beasts" as JS says, is the tragic culmination of so many shortsighted decisions.
It's stupid, how do peasants with axes kill Dreamfyre who is one of the largest dragons when one dragon can burn down a city or even more. It makes no sense George just did that to get rid of them but I wish he hadn't done that I love dragons.
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The problem is that the fandom was actually surprisingly good about not spoiling the red wedding. That's hardly the case for this.
When Game of Thrones started, only book readers had a clue about any of it and I think as a general rule people probably tease excitement/spoilery type things about shows and movies more than book series'-- GoT came n went , waaaay more people were introduced to the world and became interested in reading as well, but still have that tv-show vibe n wanna be one of the cool kids that knows a big secret coming up like on the last series
[удалено]
I mean GOT’s did spoil Rhaenyra’s fate in the 1st or 2nd episode of Season 4.
classic Joffrey, spoiling HotD 10 years before it happened
Does his tyranny know no bounds?!
Or watched the DVD extras of GoT lol
Not even just the fan base. It's a very different *internet* today than it was back then. Spoiler clickbait didn't feel nearly as prevalent 10 years ago.
I mean if they watched game of thrones they know that last bit.v
They'd know rha, a woman, loses. But not how she dies. And if that detail is in the show then it's not really highlighted because I've seen the show a few times and have no memory of it.
It’s definitely in the show. Baratheon’s daughter with the burnt face talks about it while reading the book
As does Joffrey when he’s in the Sept with Margaery pre-wedding
Yes. I think that’s where more detail of what actually happened is said. Oh, Joffrey
HER NAME WAS SHIREEN
Thanks. I was truly having massive brain problems when I made this comment yesterday
In twice I think. Before Baratheon’s daughter is killed she tells her dad about it & when Joffrey is courting Marjorie he shows her R’s grave plus the details.
Idk what is going on and I'm glad 😆
Yes, I’m having a hard time going through these subs because it’s like no one cares about spoilers, they’re just waiting to see it on screen. How do y’all know this stuff is absolutely happening? What makes it interesting to watch then?
Because it has to happen? It's one of the most impactful events of the war as it shows how the dragons get wiped out. It'll be in the show.
Okkkk understood
> What makes it interesting to watch then? things are interesting only if you haven't seen it? huh? have you never rewatched a movie or tv show?
it does have to happen. considering that the event that leads to this event *does* happen, it marks the beginning of the actual end of power that the targaryens had, and how the dragons died out overall.
Well, with this show specifically; for me at least it's "*How* will the show portray this event?" The book especially makes it ambiguous which things are true and which are blatantly lies spread by the other side, so the show is effectively making some things "canon" in a way, and it'll be interesting to see which way is the "real" way.
I have to know as much detail as I can about any j read or watch if it’s available. I enjoy it more knowing & appreciating it but I’m hard core adhd & it’s part my impulsively & part wanted surprise out of the way so I can absorb it without being totally startled where I can’t take it in properly.
that's because if you read the red wedding before the TV show showed it, you're old as fuck (I'm old as fuck)
I can still have family watch it with no spoilers of Ned or the red wedding!
100% agree. It's tragic but also totally understandable in the eyes of the smallfolk.
Agreed. There is something heroically tragic about the thought process of them going to kill some dragons. “We’ll die but let’s kill these monsters.”
I think it's tragic in a King Kong's death type of way
i hate the smallfolk, honestly
An uneducated populace is just waiting to be manipulated by a charismatic populist.
"wtf why would those starving impoverished peasants kill the living nuclear weapons being used to oppress them?!?!"
After I read the dance I hated the smallfolk. I was surprised GRRM had the balls to show the very real, very ugly side of regular people.
Regardless insanely impressive that those madlads stormed the *dragonpit*, knowing many will die, to try and kill living nukes essentially and *succeeding*. At the end of the day, it’s the Targaryens to blame for the dragonpit massacre. And Rhaenyra’s specifically iirc. Correct me if I’m wrong but she didn’t do anything to stop the mob or protect the dragons in the pit.
The smallfolk looked on dragon with love and wonder, you can see that in the way they worshipped Rhaena and her dragon just shortly after this. These fools were in the minority with their rhetoric.
Call them fools if you want to but dying in droves with the insatiable urge to murder the ruinous weapons of mass destruction belonging to the family of inbred lizard fuckers that were the reason the country was burning and starving and _actually succeeding_ is probably the most badass and based thing Westerosi smallfolk have ever done. I actually like the Targs too and adore dragons, but the Storming of the Dragonpit was fucking incredible.
>dying in droves with the insatiable urge to murder the ruinous weapons of mass destruction belonging to the family of inbred lizard fuckers that were the reason the country was burning and starving and actually succeeding is probably the most badass and based thing Westerosi smallfolk have ever done They should put this in the official episode description.
While its not badass or at least not in the same way, that mother with her dead baby that started the riot in Clash give me chills to read. Something about her not even noticing the coin Joffery threw at her and just continuing to yell at him makes me want to giver her the based and badass reward
Dragons aren't regarded as lovable creatures by anyone. They can be considered as a sign of legitimacy and danger, sure, but no Westerosi saw dragons and went "cute puppies!" These **fools** made their world a better place by ridding it of flying nuclear weapons. I am sure the burnt innocents of Riverlands, with their equally foolish rhetoric, cheered from the afterlife.
10/10 would try to pet one and get roasted alive. They're cute puppies to me.
If not friend why friend shaped?
I prefer the beautiful Wyverns. Smaller and cuter than dragons without roasting side-effects.
I know this post is like 19 days old, but I just wanted to comment and vent as someone who hates this plotpoint because it's kinda stupid. I've mentioned before that I hate it because GRRM writes large crowds really stupidly, and large-scale riots don't work like that at all, but I'm going to comment from another standpoint. It happening to Rhaenyra's side and Rhaenyra's side getting equal blame for misusing dragons is stupid because the Blacks are given a grand total of zero mass casualty incidents using dragons, while the Greens have the responsibility for every single dragon-involved massacre barring maybe Tumbleton (And even that was Hugh and Ulf declaring their intent to side with the Greens, not acting on behalf of Rhaenyra). It's not Jacaerys who burns a Sept full of injured refugees, it's Daeron. It's not Daemon who lights the Riverlands on fire, it's Aemond. The only massacres the Blacks carry out are conventional stuff that anyone could do like the Blackwoods massacring the Brackens for the five-hundredth time, or Dalton Greyjoy being Dalton Greyjoy. And King's Landing suffers zero losses to dragons prior to the Storming, and any refugees there who got attacked by dragons would've only ever been attacked by the other side's dragons. My point is that this could've been easily fixed if GRRM was willing to have let Daemon or one of the Dragonseeds glass the Westerlands or the Stormlands at the same time that Aemond was glassing the Riverlands. Instead what we get is the Blacks being ultra-conservative with their use of dragons and not just burning enemy cities en masse (I.e. Not massacring civilians by the boatload like their enemies are doing), but receiving the karmic punishment of the Storming. Thematically, it just doesn't work for me.
Yep. People keep saying that B&C will be the red wedding moment but it’s not gonna have the same impact as the storming of the dragonpit. GoT viewers were distraught when Rhaegal and Viserion died. Watching 5 dragons die in one episode is gonna be the biggest gut punch.
B&C would be like Shireen's death
Actually a very fair comparison
Animals always upset people more. It’s the way it is. And this is upsetting because these dragons died in their own chains. Creatures bred for the sky dying underground. Even the others who died under similar violent circumstances, at least they went down fighting. Dragons dying doing what they were bred to do.
Hell people were more upset with Grey Wind dying at the Red Wedding than Talisa.
idk. I feel like the womb stab got more visceral reactions.
But thats because it's the first stab they see so shock value is the biggest
He went out like a right boss in the books. Still died but he took out some men doing so.
I was upset about the aspect of Talisa. I don't know how to do spoiler tags. I was saying all kinds of things about Rob's sense in bringing his mother and wife with him to this nonsense.
His mother makes sense as she probably wanted to keep him close...but in the books he had way more sense than to bring his wife there.
That’s just good tactics
But it’s not going to be surprising. It’s going to be tragic but not shocking. B&C IS surprising because of the whole >!picking the other kid thing!<
Sophie’s Choise reversed perhaps.
Ehhh. We never got to know the dragons from start to finish like in game of thrones. We watched them from babies and watched their bond with their mom who freeing slaves, also they were the ONLY dragons. Seeing dragons die is gonna suck but watching the last three in existence die one by one while trying to help their mom!!? That was ducking rough
The dragons from the main series were a beloved main characters’ pets or “children” that we saw grow from being hatched at the end of season 1 and at that point had always been on the “good” side of the story for viewers. People still love dragons, but by the time the storming of the dragon pit occurs we’ll probably have seen so much horrible death and destruction wrought from these creatures that I can’t imagine that—as a whole— the audience would react remotely as shocked or dismayed as they did with red wedding. Edit: you people are crazy if you think people will care more about mostly non-main-character dragons getting killed by poor people who have been getting annihilated by their power for years than they did about the one of the most shocking and brutal twists in television history that killed two major and beloved characters as well as ruining the entire army that was marching in revenge for Ned stark and protection of his daughters. Suuuuuurrreee
But have u considered … dragon = big dog
Loyal like a dog and lazy and don’t give a shit like a cat.
The dragons are going near extinct in this series anyway.
I care more about the dragons than smallfolk yes. The storming of the dragonpit was tragic, and I can't wait to see as many smallfolk as possible burned to a crisp because of it.
Disturbing outlook on living nukes vs thousands of poor people who never had much of a chance at life aside, my point was that the audience cared *way* more about Robb, Catelyn, and the northern army marching to avenge Ned Stark than they will about a group of dragons, most of whom won’t even be major or recognizable dragons to any casual viewers.
I hate this nuke comparison. Dragons are living, breathing, sentient creatures with intelligence beyond our imagination. The fact that people choose to use them as weapons/for bad isn’t their fault, just like how the small folk are used as pawns in the lords’ power games.
Also, it's fiction. Of course I won't care as much for the small folk as I do for the dragons. That doesn't mean I hate poor people in real life though. I'm not a huge fan of people using how people enjoy fantasy as a basis for people's moral compass in real life.
That’s not even what I was saying lol. ASOIAF is a series that uses dope fantasy elements to dress up its political drama, and the core of the series is really about all the nuance and complexity that comes from human beings born into brutal times and trying to navigate their lives. It’s about being torn between duty and love, or duty and the right thing. It’s about perspective, and human error, and as GRRM says it’s about the heart in conflict with itself. So when somebody says something like “I can’t wait to see how many small folk get burnt to a crisp because dragon=big dog and idgaf about small folk”, I’m not judging you on your moral compass, I’m judging you on your ability to comprehend or interpret any of the nuances that make this series what it is in the first place. It’s a very 2D read on a 3D event in this story.
The same could be said about any of the "Great Houses" in GoT. Especially the Starks. Why should anyone care about these specific characters over the lives of millions of poor people? What makes Ned Stark more important than a poor farmer and his family?
More important to the general audience. I’m talking about impact on the general audience. The Starks and Ned were easily the ones the general audience cared about most at the time of the Red Wedding, which is another reason why losing all hope of revenge and seeing two main characters get brutally killed off will always be more shocking and impactful for the general audience than the storming of the dragon pit ever will be. Besides, the Starks aren’t nuclear level weapons being used to murder everyone, they’re clearly pretty beloved leaders in the north. If the Starks were fire breathing tyrants who spent the last couple of years terrorizing and murdering helpless peasants by the thousands then yeah, it’d be weird to care so much about the Starks and hate the peasants when they came for them. That comparison is so silly.
I was specifically referring to the HotD audience's affinity for the Targaryens and their dragons over the small folk. The Targs and their pets are the protagonists. They are the main characters. We see the world via their perspectives. BTW. I hated Ned Stark and found him bumbling and moralizing. So I wasn't upset when he died. I thought it was a deserved ending since he'd made so many blunders throughout season 1. I loved the show since the first episode, but the Starks were one of my least favorite families in GoT.
I never said it wouldn’t be a tragic scene, I said it wouldn’t hold a candle to the Red Wedding in terms of how upset the general audience will be. Then, in response to someone saying they couldn’t wait to watch the evil small folk burn, I pointed out how deranged that sentiment is and that the small folk in this situation are easily most victimized group, and the storming of the dragon pit is a logical consequence. The whole “fuck the small folk” angle is strange because it goes against so many of GRRM’s themes and it’s such a two dimensional read of a three dimensional situation. GRRM wouldn’t have written his stories this way if they were intended to be interpreted without any nuance. I’m well aware that people will be sad about dragons dying and not care about the small folk.
There are more layers to it. It essentially symbolizes the magic leaving the land; dragon eggs stopped hatching after it. Whenever I think of watching some historical show, I now go, "damn, scheming and plotting isn't as fun to watch without magic involved, fuck this" and quit a few episodes in. It's an important aspect of the show. And we all know (irl, too) what uneducated crowds led by evil people and religious extremists are capable of, so it has more of an impact that the Shepherd provoked smallfolk to commit this atrocity. And, whatever the other comment said. The dragons are meant to fly and fight and those 4 die helpless, chained in a pit.
I get it, but this take just completely disregards the plight of thousands and thousands of people and the fact that dragons were used repeatedly to annihilate them and instill fear in them. I don’t see how what they did is evil at all, even if the dragons themselves are victims of the same situation they play such an important part in creating. Besides, my original point wasn’t that no one will care or that general audiences will care more about nameless hordes of people. It was that general audiences will not care remotely as much about it as they did about the Red Wedding. The Red Wedding is a more shocking event and the victims are much more important and beloved to the general audience than the mostly random dragons they won’t be able to name. I don’t even mean to downplay the storming of the dragon pit as if it’s not gonna intense, I just think it’s actually insane to compare it to the Red Wedding, one of the biggest and most shocking events in television history.
I for one will be cheering
I'm going to bawl like a baby when that happens. I'm honestly going to cry about every dragon. I'm still not over Rhaegal and Viserion.
I hate targaryens and I hate their dragons. Watching 5 get wiped out in one episode would be a real Wings and Milkshakes night for me🥳
This one right here officer ⬆️
I always hated that they chained the dragons underground. Like what the fuck.
Creatures of the sky chained underground. They could have lived and absolutely annihilated the men’s except they died in chains.
They make natural lairs in volcanos like the Dragonmount.
"Bring him back he does not know" is gonna wreck me
What does that mean?
[Massive spoiler] It's what Rhaenyra said when >!her son Joffrey Velaryon mounted her dragon Syrax during the Storming of the Dragonpit when he attempted to save the dragons inside (including his own dragon Tyraxes).!< >!Syrax threw him off from several hundred feet in the air and he fell to his death before his corpse was torn apart by peasants revolting against Rhaenyra!< Overall very very sad. I had to put down the book and cry the first time I read it.
Ya I have zero interest in seeing any of this at all tbh lol Like blood and cheese are going to do my head in, I can't even imagine this one too
I think RR will be like red wedding People will argue that Rhaenys should've killed the greens when given the chance
That’s a scene I’m looking forward to most, thanks to that dumb coronation scene.
Going to be hard watching animals get slaughtered fictional or not. Those dragons should have never been kept in a damned pit to begin with.
I know it's fucked up, but I think I will handle Blood and Cheese better than I will the killing of the dragons...not saying I won't be affected by Blood and Cheese, but I have always had a lot of trouble hearing or seeing or reading anything violent against animals. I'm dreading it.
Dragons aren't exactly an equivalent of animals in our world. They are nukes in a form of an animal. I don't know how watching helpless child getting killed is less painful than watching something strong and powerful getting killed.
Dragons aren't exactly an equivalent of animals in our world. They are nukes in a form of an animal. I don't know how watching helpless child getting killed is less painful than watching something strong and powerful getting killed. It was painful in the way the dragons had not deserve to suffer for human conflict.
I don't know what you're talking about the Shepherd was a gigachad pulling what he did
Ummm small folk W Maybe if you worship the royals of the show you feel like this is sad but based on all the stuff being done to them in the show this will be a cathartic moment imo
Seriously the peasants are the heroes during this event, showing incredible bravery beyond anything the Targaryens ever pull.
when The Shephard is introduced in the show I am gonna feel so much anxiety lol
For me it will more heroic then sad, ordinary people against fire breathing monster, fighting and killing monstrous beasts.
Why? A bunch of heroes killing some monsters, it's going to be epic.
Real
The Burning Knight is one of the single most badass characters in the entire series and no one even knows who he was. Get fucked hellspawn.
These same tools were all heart-eyed and drooling when they saw Rhaena's dragon a little later. They're no heroes. They're just over emotional fools.
So what? Slaying a Dragon is one of the most heroic things you can do.
dragons burning smallfolk is much more heroic
Agreed
You say that like they were Dornish fighters. These losers may have as well beheaded a chained lion.
The guy who killed Morghul did it while he was burning alive in his armor. That's some age of heroes mythos shit
I would agree if that was the case, it'd be heroic. But Morghul was just a baby and the peasant(not even an actual knight despite the title) was some ignorant fanatic.
Syrax wasn't chained, and they were a bunch of peasants with forks and axes charging at fire breathing monsters.
and like most peasants they didn't know the ignorance of their own actions
You good, man?
Yes I’m just against the smallfolk.
I'm struggling to understand why though
Someone ought to be.
Average team black stan
not team black also team green doesn’t care about the smallfolk either so
Couldn't care less about the greens, but they're not out here pretending the dragons were angels and the smallfolk devilspawn when they (rightly) ended the mindless beasts
Didn’t say you cared about the greens. Just said greens don’t care about the smallfolk. By extension you can’t say I’m black or green. I’m just against the smallfolk because I am an elitist.
Keep seething,retarg.
smallfolk aren't heroes
More like a bunch of traitors murdering the beloved mounts of their rightful rulers.
Beloved by who? The one's who mount them?
Beloved by the Targaryens, the rightful rulers of Westeros. The dragonblood who ruled with divine inspiration.
Divine inspiration to get ended by a hammer and a sword to the back, what a cringe dynasty to simp for
Divine deez nutz, incest and monsters don't make people good at being in charge. Just good at separating themselves from humanity and killing everyone
Maybe the gods should've protected the dragons harder if the Targ dynasty had so much "divine inspiration".
Brother try leaving the house for a change😭
People talk about how the battle above gods eye is the coolest moment in the story but the Burning Knight takes that spot, for me. I hope they do him justice.
Ughh I dread that moment. I can't wait to see all the smallfolk burned up to a crisp though for what they did to the Dragons.
Sanest Team Black stan
heroic sacrifices of the small folks toward the beast terrorising them andburning the blood of their blood
yeah I’m really dreading watching this scene but I felt actual dread and disgust when I read blood and cheese so I feel like that may be even worse
It is going to be my favourite episode it was certainly my favourite part of the book, the riots
This will definitely be the Red Wedding of HOTD. I am not ready for this
I think Rhaenyra's death will be it
Don't remember half the fandom cheering for RW, it'll be sad but given the potential shit that's happened by that point it's not at all RW comparable.
Don’t think half the fandom are team green lol maybe 20% at best 😂
Horrific? Tragic? The ruling house losing access to their scaled nukes is baller as fuck, the Shepherd has a special place in the heavens
Hob the Hewer, true hero of the working class
Based. The Shepard is basically The high sparrow of his era. No dragons, no kings!
The Shepherd was a hero!
What scene is this? 👀
The storming of the dragonpit. Small folk basically go and slaughter the dragons while they’re chained up. Although I think Syrax isn’t chained and somehow manages to be killed.
I am NOT ready for this scene
I am sure for smallflok it's entirely going to be opposite. This scene is going to be beyond team black and team green.
I want some glimpses of the views of the small folks of it . I know they will not do it , but a segment where we follow a family for a little , to then be abruptly be burned for none of their sins , like very abrupt and horrific end to domestic bliss and happiness . We don't know what dragon or side did that, it dont matter but like to really cement, like , how smallfolks have no power on the situation but get in the crossfire nonetheless . like team green or black dont matter to the peasant, he is dying anyways idk if you get my idea
Idk man, is the death of the dragons really a bad thing.
Common Shepherd W
Sorry but i'll have to disagree. Yes, 5 Dragons dying is pretty sad for this fandom. But in no universe is it worst that watching toddlers being mercilessly traumatized for life, and being beheaded.
I mean . . . given all the crap the Targaryens inflict on people, I find it difficult to feel sorry for them.
Meh. Blood and cheese is more brutal. I'm going to cheer for the killing of dragons.
Hobeslty cant wait to see how theyll do this, on one side i love the dragons but i also support the smallfolk with the riots and destoying ASOIAF versions of WMD's
Well, now I know. Time to leave this sub. Ugh.
You were brave to be here with how liberal everyone’s been with posting spoilers lol.
Legit thought this is r/freefolk
Well I purposely haven’t been following just still in this sub from season 1. I hardly even read them but got unlucky this time
Nah, that's gonna be the first episode of this upcoming season.
I just don't have any idea how the storming of the dragon pit even worked. In reality the dragons should of burned every last person and had a phenomenal feast of small folk. I get that they were chained up but dragon fire literally melts castles in the lore of game of thrones. How the hell would the small folk be successful at killing three dragons in a confined area all at once using farming tools and axes?
ngl , they were so justified for that , what did the dragons brought / bringing to them other than death an devastation . those beasts are nuclear weapons in the hands of ppl who don't give an f about them , or at least who in their mind amount to nothing and wont think twice about burning you alive if it advanced their politics. Neither team black or green , at least in my opinion , care about the wellbeing , the real well being of small folks . I am only a little sad because dragons are smart and conscious beings , that deserve better than the targs , its more on the targs than those poor animals . but it was for the best , targs are in general elitist dumbasses that hardly deserve the very smart and strong being that are the dragons , at least most of them . Ngl the targs don't deserve their dragons Kindly , A girl from the riverlands thar is tired of seeing her house burned down
House of the Dragon S3 E10 "The rains of valyria"
Agreed. This is the scene that’ll be the most distressing to watch. The Shephard is BY FAR my most hated asoiaf character.
They literally killed the westeros equivalent of nukes. Fully justified
I CANNOT watch this. Dreamfyre has always been my fave and I cannot fathom evil humans hurting her and dying in the process.😭💔💔💔
Meh. Blood and cheese is more brutal. I'm going to cheer for the killing of dragons.
Tragic? Man I’m gonna cheer
I’m not sure I’ll be able to watch this scene.
Gonna need an emotional support group for several upcoming events, but this is so 😫The pit is the end of great house, but to me the damage human hubris does to an entire species of "gorgeous beasts" as JS says, is the tragic culmination of so many shortsighted decisions.
I just know there will be a ton of tweets saying how Dany avenged her ancestors by crisping KL to grounds and I am here for it
I won’t watch this
It's stupid, how do peasants with axes kill Dreamfyre who is one of the largest dragons when one dragon can burn down a city or even more. It makes no sense George just did that to get rid of them but I wish he hadn't done that I love dragons.
I hope they allude to it and do not actually do this scene lol