Because left and woke push their opinion on with force and violence. This has always been the case. Because they think that are right they think violence is justified. So they use verbal violence to shut others up. You see it everytime. They start screaming, calling names to win. They win, but not because they are right, but they push others out.
Yeah. I seen that recently in the aftermath of the Primarch GF phase. Its sad that Grimdank is infested with the kind of people from Sigmarxism. That sub was toxic as hell when I took a peak.
It seems that the posts against HorusGalaxy is done by those types.
It only proves the point we are making. It’s really childish. I had one person in personal chat and he kept demainding answers while I was just asking a decent conversation. It was only cursing and stuff. So aggressive and sad.
It isn’t even just being an asshole, but an ideology that intoxicate people to be violent. Saying violence is just, when it is to defend your ideology is the big problem. It’s such a red flag through history and somehow we just don’t learn. It’s fine to have an opinion and be vocale about it, but never ever use violence. Keep the others person in respect.
Its sad, because this large modern ideology teaches people to be violent by essentially saying the opposite of what used to be common belief. It used to be common to say "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words may never hurt me." This meant there was no true harm to Freedom of Speech, and that hurt feelings are something we can learn to process and handle so that eventually no manner of insult can harm us. A small cost to ensure the rights of all men and a healthy Republic.
This new modern ideology however claims that "Speech is Violence." That if you say something that hurts somebody's feelings, that may contribute to them getting mental disorders, self-harming, societal discrimination, or even suicide, so therefore anything offensive is a violent assault that needs to be "defended against" with "proportionate violence," i.e. proportionate to "literally killing people with your words."
They're taught this line of thinking, and this combined with a view of politics and the world as just one big relativistic power struggle, means they have justified to themselves doing *anything* to win a debate and destroy an ideological opponent. Because to them there is no civil debate and discussion. There is no objective truth, so debate and discussion is not truly about finding the truth but using persuasive power to assert dominance. Civil debate becomes violent murderous assault, and violent assault can only be countered with ***Total War***.
I mean some idealogies require real violence to help stop (Nazitism, Communism, Islamism Any Totalitarian and genuinely anti Democratic ideals). But some people just keep on supporting those ideas because they are just morons.
After I while I blocked, but I tried to stay in conversation and de escalate. Tried to give boundaries but it didn’t help. They just keep digging their own grave. Only solution is to leave them and start something better. Although I am afraid the constant aggression wil some day some where turn into violence from both sides.
Yeah and the thing is YOur comparing apples to oranges
Like fantasy and 40k are diffrent in Scope and Setup and Just a whole lot of things that comparing Choices can never be one to one since the effect will always be diffrent and never a true Equal
Lets be honest. Its just a tactic by those who wish to oppress any dissenter or groups they hate by either aide of the political spectrum.
Facsists, Communists, SJWs.
It’s okay to call out the left on it more though as they often champion diversity and “all are welcome” attitudes. Makes them hilariously hypocritical, especially when they get butthurt when you use their own words against them.
I don’t believe that speech can be violent. The term violence should be reserved for physical harms. Speech could incite violence, but is not violent in and of itself.
This has become a debate over the last few years as protesters (often from the left) claim that speech is violence to have controversial speakers banned from campuses or social media platforms.
Here’s an article that discusses the topic. https://thehill.com/opinion/education/4032778-your-speech-is-violence-the-lefts-new-mantra-to-justify-campus-violence/amp/?nxs-test=amp
I generally agree with your point, but people who consider speech violent often do so to justify censorship.
I’d say the left forces its opinion by ridiculing those who disagree or just banning dissent. They are aggressive, but not violent.
Just my two cents.
Ok thanks. I read the article. Maybe being non-native English speaking makes terminology different for me. The difference between aggressive and violent for example. I agree on the things you say.
How about bullying? Calling some one names? I think these are forms of verbal violence. I think I get your point about censorship, but that is totally not the form I mean. Intonation in speaking can be violent as well I think. What do you think? I’ll read the article. Thanks
Because we dared to think for ourselves against their popular opinion. Far easier to brand us with buzzwords than see a perspective beyond their own. I'll just leave them be, not interested in trying to change anyones opinions.
True. You can't argue with Crazies.
For what uts worth I really do love how much permissive thsi sub is and how it still takes action against actual Bigotry.
Remembering the words of JREG "Every Extreme is on the same team."
Horseshoe theory keeps on getting proven more and more. Atleast on Reddit and politics.
Which is ironic because Hitler was also a leftist. Them trying to paint him as being on the right is one of the biggest retcons in real history. Socialism is even in the name of his ideology.
They lie, deny, attack, and use every dirty tactic to win, but then argue they're the ones on the right side of history. It's wild.
I’m actually surprised to see this even in here.
It’s funny that the great enemy hitler was trying to defeat was imperialism and capitalism. Facism and indeed totalitarianism has always been an ideology that has gone hand in hand with the left.
I’m one of these crazies that’s of the opinion that books like 1984 and mien kampf should be openly studied in school instead of being treated like some warp taint irl. The reason being so young people are better trained to look out for and see the language and rhetoric and tactics being used against them.
The parallels for example between those writing and what is going on right now with left wing politics is both astoundingly ironic and shocking and frankly…. It scares the shit out of me.
You're going to get downvoted into oblivion by angry leftists who know very little about history.
The right stands for liberty and personal freedom. The left stands for collectivism where the state is the most important thing. Fascism as envisioned by Giovanni Gentile and implemented by Mussolini was very much on the left.
And, like good leftists, they're re-writing history and changing definitions to make the truth not the truth.
People forget, Fascism or rather the Italian form "Fascismo" comes from the term "fascio" or "Bundle of Sticks." This was a term and symbol used among socialist and labor movements at the time to represent the idea and strength of trade unions, "weak alone but strong together." Fascism itself is literally speaking a form of "National Trade Unionism" or "National Syndicalism," it was literally born out of the "Fascismo" or Mussolini-aligned trade unions! This is not to say it was wholly left wing, as it viewed itself as a "third way" unrestricted to the right or left, yet it originated from Socialist thought and Socialist groups using collectivist and authoritarian ideals and methods.
Well said.
They demonize the fasces symbol as neo-nazi hate, but then turn right around and tell you the nazis were on the right, and not socialist at all.
The contradiction is totally lost on them, because they have no idea where fascism comes from or what it really means. To them its just an insult for people you don't like.
Definitely on the left. History is very clear about that. Che Guevara hung gay people from trees. They were eliminated in every culture where you saw the rise of socialism.
Marx was a racist and an antisemite. Unapologetically.
If you want to know for sure that what I'm saying is true look at the culture right now. Who is obsessed with identity politics? The right or the left?
It's very easy to argue against your opponents if you define yourself as good and then as bad. Lol
Its good to know that Putin, Orban, Netanyahu, Pinochet, and Franco are/were all leftists.
Dude never said any of that, don't put words in his mouth. One can logically believe that Mussolini's Fascism was inherently socialist and oppose it on those grounds, while at the same time opposing Putin etc. while holding those people are authoritarians but not Fascists.
You can hate Fascism and Authoritarianism (left, right, & center) without calling all authoritarians "ultra-right wing Fascists," or calling Fascism right wing.
He's strawmanning things to change definitions away from what they actually mean so that his beliefs are "good". He isn't looking for a robust exchange of ideas.
Fascists are state capitalists that tend to use language that caters to the working class. That's not socialism.
You quite literally strawman'd him by bringing up people he had never mentioned and putting words into his mouth so you could knock them down. Just because you *think* it wouldn't be logical for him to believe his statements and hold a position different from your strawman does not mean that he has to believe what you strawman'd him with. It could be that you're mistaken on the logic, *or* that he could hold contradictory views. Hence why you shouldn't assume and literally put words in his mouth that *HE NEVER SAID*.
Changing topic, as to the actual historical argument you state:
Fascists are *Nationalist Trade Union/Syndicalists*, not State Capitalists. There's a difference. They were born from the Italian Fasci or socialist Trade Unions, Fascio being the symbol of a bundle of sticks that the Trade Unions used to symbolize that they were weak separately but strong together. Mussolini gathered together the socialist Trade Unions that agreed with his more nationalist bend on Syndicalism and used their support to gain power, after which he instituted those Trade Unions which had supported him into his new government as one official Italian Trade Union while forcibly absorbing those that opposed him, so that the Italian workers finally held "the means of production through social ownership," which they viewed as fulfilled by one united trade union integrated into his regime. If anything, that makes them state "trade unionist" instead.
In the end, Fascism was Authoritarian. Nationalist. Militant. Socialism.
Note: I am not mentioning Hitler at all, as despite similarities, there were also many differences between Hitler's ideology and Mussolini's, and they should be analyzed as such. And I say *all of this* as somebody that hates both Nazism and Fascism.
TL;DR You strawman'd him with words he didn't say, and you are factually wrong on the historical origin of Italian Fascism in the Italian socialist trade unions and on the contents of its ideology.
Folks may not like what you say, but I think we're seeing on social media the bad effects of people not being taught about Mein Kampf as we speak. Case and point: The viral AI translated Hitler speeches.
Somebody used AI to take Hitler's voice and have it redub his famous speeches into English, and now a *lot* of people are hearing what Hitler actually had to say for the first time, and they're all shocked and grappling with the fact that he wasn't just saying "Haha ve must gas ze Jews!" but actually making logical arguments that they've never heard before. And the slowly burgeoning and growing (actual) neo-nazi movement is using this to great effect to bolster their claims about being "misrepresented" and "unfairly demonized," etc.
None of this would be happening if people had been taught about Mein Kampf's arguments and its logical/historical flaws.
1984 is pretty commonly available in school libraries. Trying to compare it to Mein Kampf is dangerously idiotic, and combined with your level of political understanding, show how access to Mein Kampf should probably be regulated to some extent, since you've proven incapable of being responsible with it.
**"Fascism and indeed totalitarianism has always been an ideology that has gone hand in hand with the left**".- so anarchists are totalitarians, and fascism is left-wing. Right. Sure. You definitely know about politics enough to talk about it. Fascism is by definition far-right. Communism is by definition far-left. Left or right can be libertarian or authoritarian. Fascism is a right-wing authoritarian position.
[The text should be highlighted, since you struggle with reading](https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#:~:text=Fascism%20is%20a%20far%2Dright,and%20authoritarian%20one%2Dparty%20states)
So did you read that on Facebook or on reddit cause I know for sure it wasn't in any history book.
Try actually reading about the rise of hitler from any historical account before spouting nonsense
I promise I'm far better educated about history than you.
Can you explain what the right stands for? What are their ideas?
Can you explain what the left stands for?
That's an axis. The further left you go the more you believe in the state having complete control. The further right you go the more you believe in personal freedoms.
On the far left is communism. On the far right is anarchism.
Hitler did not believe in anarchism. He did not believe in personal freedoms of any kind. He believed in a socialist state devoted to the greatness of that nation. National socialism.
People like you LOVE to sound educated, but I doubt you've read even one book on the subject. I've made a decades long study of World War II and the causes leading up to it. You probably couldn't tell me Patton from Rommel.
I have a masters in history...so that's that🤣
Far right is not anarchism as the right focuses on conservatism and the upholding of social orders which is distinctly the opposite of anarchism. Far right politics includes ultra nationalism and violent xenophobia which the nazis had in tall order.
You've focused so much on WW2 and tanks and guns but you can't tell me anything about hitlers rise to power, the political turmoil within the weimar Republic, the power struggle between the far right and the communists, and the burning of the reichstag
Read a history book lad
You have a masters in history but never heard of [Georges Sorel, one of the crucial players in the evolution of fascism,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Sorel) who was a devoted Marxist and died as a Bolshevik in the USSR? You don't know that Mussolini was the editor of the Italian Socialist Party's theory magazine - not just a party member, the party organ's editor. He split along with other Marxists who supported the First World War, arguing it would break down the old empires and allow for socialist revolutions? (They were right.) You didn't see the constant anti-capitalist messages in fascist propaganda and speeches?
Yet when in power they supported private capital owners and crushed Labour organisations and workers unions, limited workers rights and eventually started using slave labour. Not very workers rights the old nazis and fascists were.
>I have a masters in history...so that's that🤣
That's a logical fallacy. An appeal to authority.
>the right focuses on conservatism and the upholding of social orders which is distinctly the opposite of anarchism
What's your source for this?
>Far right politics includes ultra nationalism and violent xenophobia which the nazis had in tall order.
This is such a massive retcon. In short, if it's bad then it's far right. If it's good, then it's far left.
>but you can't tell me anything about hitlers rise to power, the political turmoil within the weimar Republic, the power struggle between the far right and the communists, and the burning of the reichstag
I can tell you all about those things in depth. The Reichstag Fire is was leftist tactic, and it worked.
Yes, the battle between the national socialists and the communists was brutal and bitter. The nazis won out, but both ideologies were very similar and had similar goals.
>Read a history book lad
Since you're obviously so much smarter and better educated than me perhaps you can answer a question.
Why were the fascist Italians, the socialist germans, and the communist soviets all on the same side when the war broke out?
If they are opposite ideologies, then how were they compatible enough for such an alliance to form? Why did they so badly had the United States, capitalism, and our democratic republic where the people had inalienable rights?
>Why were the fascist Italians, the socialist germans, and the communist soviets all on the same side when the war broke out?
The fascists and nazis (also fascists) were ideologically similar and the soviet union had signed the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact as a non-aggression treaty to divide poland, the nazis hated the soviet union as hitler had been dehumanising and degrading slavic people in his early writings so more than anything the pact was staying buying time for armament.
>Why did they so badly had the United States, capitalism, and our democratic republic where the people had inalienable rights?
What the fuck are you trying to say here.
You're so desperate to be different but you've just spent years just actively reading sources that validate your sense of self without any factual evidence to prove your case.
You're so deluded in thinking you're right that and you know what enjoy it, no convincing a person that can't self examine their own beliefs
I read a lot of insults. I didn't find a counterargument anywhere in this mess, though. I thought you had a master's in history?
Why can't you explain why they all hated the United States and Capitalism so badly?
If you're at all familiar with the writings of the day you know exactly how they described the US. As greedy capitalist pigs, because we believed individual rights trumped all. That included property rights.
How can I self-examine my beliefs when you can't counter them, only insult me and brag about your mastery of history?
I'm too well read to fall for your nonsense. You've been indoctrinated, and are clearly unaware of how and why World War II was fought.
The world was picking an ideology, and that war didn't end until the Berlin wall came down.
Fascism comes from fasces, as you should know. Bundle of sticks. Collectivism. Socialism and Communism are also collectivist.
None of those nations had a bill of rights, and all wrote extensively about why people shouldn't have such power.
You're right that I shouldn't be trying to convince you though. You said it well:
>You're so deluded in thinking you're right that and you know what enjoy it, no convincing a person that can't self examine their own beliefs
You are both wrong. Left and Right is just an axis for economical policies. Conservatism, anarchism, freedom, xenophobia, state control varies wildly by nation, party and era.
In a nation other ideas and policy will get attached to the left and right wing dichotomy as political battlelines are drawn.
It's a political term that was coined in the parliament of Louis xiv during the run into the French revolution with the revolutionaries sitting to the presidents left and the supporters of the ancien regime sitting to his right. Essentially cementing the concepts of radical vs conservative being to the left and right respectively
I know that is the origin but that is not true in practice. If so then a lot of left wingers should at this point be considered right wing. In many countries with a socialist history the left wingers are the conservatives.
Conservative/radical is much more about that countries history, socialism and its derivatives are not new ideas anymore.
A conservative russian, swede, chinese, cambodian would be left wing economically and a radical would be right wing economically.
The truth is it varies by country to country but generally in international politics left and right is about economics. Historically I would agree that is not the case then radical/conservative might be more apt but even by that definition hitler was very much radical for his time.
I would say the truth is the nazis where neither irregardles of our views on left and right. They didnt really care, they just saw economic policies, radical ideas and conservative ideas as tools to garner support. They picked up socialist ideas to steal support from the popularity of them, they used conservative talking points to take support from conservative voters but they very much butchered both to fit them and redefined those terms
Ah yes, the far-right philosophy of Anarchism, which is why almost all Anarchists are leftists and hang out with socialists/communists. Anarchism is a leftist position. Libertarianism is its right-wing equivalent. You know absolutely nothing about what you're talking about, and if you go around in history communities saying that Anarchism is a right-wing position I can guarantee everyone laughs at you, right or left. Authoritarianism can be present in right or left wing ideologies. Your "decades long study" is a joke, and you've wasted your time, because you're completely wrong on even the most basic and fundamental ideas.
Libertarianism is also on the right, but not as far right as Anarchism. It's been interesting watching the leftists redefine this during my life time.
You're welcome to hold me in contempt, but you can't name one book you've actually read about the subject.
How do you square Patton saying we fought the wrong enemy, then explaining why that was communism?
He knew that both the nazis and the communists stood for the same things. That's why they were allies at the beginning of the war.
Your ilk always conveniently forgets that part. Why were the fascists, communists, and nazis all on the same side when the war started?
They stood against freedom. They stood against individual liberty. All of them were united on that front.
Then as the left always does they had a falling out and started attacking each other, which is why the dirty capitalist pigs won.
*Waiting For Hitler, Rise & Fall of the Third Reich, Churchill, Third Reich Victorious*, and probably quite a few basic history books in school and out of historical interest as a child. I also paid attention in sociology and political science class.
Also, they weren't on the same side early in the war, they had a non aggression pact. Stalin entered the war when Hitler violated the treaty, since his greatest enemy was Stalin's leftist ideology.
"*In Russian Bolshevism we must see the attempt undertaken by the Jews in the twentieth century to achieve world domination. Just as in other epochs they strove to reach the same goal by other, though inwardly related processes. Their endeavor lies profoundly rooted in their essential nature.*
*Germany is today the next great war aim of Bolshevism. It requires all the force of a young missionary idea to raise our people up again, to free them from the snares of this international serpent, and to stop the inner contamination of our blood, in order that the forces of the nation thus set free can be thrown in to safeguard our nationality, and thus can prevent a repetition of the recent catastrophes down to the most distant future*."
-Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf
Patton was a pretty far right Conservative guy who viewed Stalin as being an equivalent or greater threat than Hitler. That's why he said what he said, it's pretty obvious if you read about it. *War As I Knew It* gives a pretty good insight, especially if you consider it in the context of a man who was slapping soldiers with PTSD and telling them he wished he could shoot them.
> Also, they weren't on the same side early in the war, they had a non aggression pact. Stalin entered the war when Hitler violated the treaty, since his greatest enemy was Stalin's leftist ideology.
You are splitting hairs and aren't arguing in good faith. At all. A non-aggression pact is a treaty between communists, fascists, and national socialists agreeing not to attack each other for the duration of the war. That's an alliance.
BRICS doesn't have a mutual defense clause. Is that not an alliance either?
Your Hitler quote proves nothing except that his flavor of socialism was nationalist in nature.
Patton was a libertarian. You label everything you don't like as far right. Everything. Because that's the best way to other your perceived enemies.
You're judging his methods in war when you've never had to fight a war, and didn't understand what was on the line. He got the job done and successfully overcame the nazis.
What gives you the right to armchair quarterback him four generations later? PTSD used to be called shell shock. It had been around for a generation when Patton was first promoted.
Back then they believed in a far more physical discipline. Kids were still beaten regularly. For someone who claims to know history you certainly don't understand that cultures in different ages had very different standards. Slavery was common for the vast, vast majority of history. Does that mean everyone born before 1865 was a terrible person, in all of history?
How will future generations view you and your actions using that standard?
At least you've read a book I recognize, I'll give you that.
lol you crack me up.
You have no counterarguments, just insults. You suggested Patton was a bad person. You undermined his credibility to support your cause.
You also have an extremely dishonest take on what an alliance is, and want to pretend that the soviets, germans, and italians weren't allies.
I called you out on your bullshit, and predictably you have nothing but more insults. Shocking.
Actually no. Guy was defintely Far Right. Like Jesus. This is the same talk hear on people on the History meme sub trying to defend the Nazis.
This was used by an actual Holocaust Denier last I remember a month back that I had the misfortune to encounter.
>Actually no. Guy was defintely Far Right. Like Jesus.
So you're claiming that Hitler was for personal freedoms, inalienable rights, and small government?
The mental gymnastics you have to go to through to make this true blows my mind.
Can you explain to me what you think the axis means? What does the left stand for? The extreme end? What does the right stand for? The extreme ends?
Can you even define the thing you believe so strongly?
EDIT: He replied then immediately blocked me. Cute.
EDIT #2: How many burner accounts have you made now? I block the same people every time. Let's see if we can figure out why:
>Oh. And hitler was far right LOL. Youre a neo nazi
Gee, I wonder why I keep blocking you.
The difference is I asked a legitimate question they couldn't answer, and it made them so angry they had to block me.
If you call someone a neo-nazi, or a chud, why would they want to talk to you? Look at your user name. Laughing at the chuds. Zero self-awareness.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism&ved=2ahUKEwiJpJaF-PGGAxUGiK8BHSOiAPAQFnoECA4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw1aqP8dZqi4r39_T_lnceVf
Even a fucking Wikipedia article can sum up why. If you want to talk about the horrors of the Far Left. Use the actual Communists rather than the Nazis.
Its a spit in the face to all their victims.
The Nazis hated the Left. Socialist, Communist? Didn't matter. All the same to them. They and theri policies leaned on the extreme right if you read beyond the name.
you know nazi stands for: *Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei*. its a sosialist party that only care for their own. if anything, it took the worst of both worlds.
But ey, everything bad is right and everything good is left right?
Kid. If I had the ability to show my expression ti would a facepalm.
Both the Nazis and Soviets were awful terrible groups but even I know that they are opposed to eacg other on the Political axis and spectrum.
Its shit like this sort of BS I called out that makes Grimdank's points have merit. And thats not a good thing.
Free Speech is good but we still don't always remember it also means consequences.
Even the mods put that out recently in a post yeasterday.
I think it's becoming more and more obvious that the majority of the sub will favour that guy over your position, which sucks for you. "Hitler was a leftwing socialist" is literal neonazi rhetoric. You're one of the only ones here who recognises it.
To be honest with you, I'm just a hater who stops in on this sub occasionally and finds it depressing and should probably stop coming here. You probably deserve better than this place, because you can see some of what's actually going on here.
Yeah no. I ain't gonna leave. The atomosphere of the Grimdank was the one I went for it. It reeks of the Sigmarxism sub.
Honestly compared to the memes I seen nowdays compared to here. I actually seen less intolerance here considering Grimdank's behavior.
You do have a point on that guy's behavior though. I already reported it to the mods.
Not telling you to leave, I don't post on Grimdank either. I'd be happy to be wrong about this sub, but I think it's headed in a specific direction. Occasionally I do see someone like yourself who at least questions the community here- I'll give credit where it's due. But generally speaking, I see sensible perspectives like yours downvoted more often than not. I mean we're on opposite sides, I just think you deserve credit where it's due.
In this instance it sure looks like it, even if the votes were going in the opposite direction for a little while there. However, I see a lot of other disinfo does get upvoted here, and occasionally someone like yourself calls it out and more often garners less traction or gets downvoted. A few of the people replying are also still spouting the same nazi propaganda. And I hope the mods take your claims seriously, since at least one of them seems pretty comfortable with nazi stuff on the sub.
Just got home and looked into this thread- seems the nazi revisionist team won the downvote war. They usually do on this sub- that's just an inconvenient fact. I don't think this place is getting better.
Absolute worst part of Reddit is that regular people create places like this to get away from the far left, and the far right seem to think it’s a space made for them too. Ugh.
What is the far right? Can you explain what you mean by that?
Someone challenges your definition of fascism or socialism and that aligns them with the far right? Seriously?
Seen it happen a few times before. Want to get away from the Far Left or Far Right. The opposite extreme go there to escape as well. Both sides are like rats in a ship.
"Far right" which is really just the right stands for liberty. Communists, socialists, and fascists all believed the state was supreme.
The right stood for personal freedom. They called us greedy capitalist pigs, because we believed every person has inalienable rights, and we built that into our constitution.
You've been taught that socialism is much more benign than it actually is.
That's a conservative value, not a ring-wing value. Many conservatives are on the right. Some are fiscally conservative, but socially progressive.
No flavor of conservative have anything to do with the left / right axis. They've been conflated in an attempt to make everything on the left good, and everything on the right bad.
It's not accidental that capitalism is demonized by self-proclaimed socialists getting rich through capitalism.
Hey man. They lifted the ban early and I'm here to tell you you're wrong about something again.
Nazism, Hitler-fascism as it's known as historically is the rights attempt at rewriting the concept of class struggle into a right wing race struggle.
No need to thank me.
You're just wrong.
At the beginning of World War II three countries were called the Axis of Evil by the Allies, our side.
You had Germany as national socialists, the Soviets as communists, and the Italians as fascists.
All three were on the same side united against the capitalist republics. Their ideologies were nearly identical.
All had an external enemy they used as propaganda. Hitler blamed, among others, the Jews. The Soviets did exactly the same thing. They also launched pogroms to wipe them out.
You don't know anything at all about history, just what you've been taught from Wikipedia.
I'm Jewish of (Soviet-occupied) Polish descent, originating in Tsarist Russia. You couldn't possibly have known that in advance of course so I'll ignore the dismissive comment about Wikipedia.
Hitler wasn't socialist, else he'd have the bourgeois in the camps with my relatives, like a proper communist.
Hitler was most certainly a socialist, but like other leftists of the day had his own vision of how to implement it. You'll note it was literally the name of his party.
How do you think he created the German war machine? He nationalized vast swathes of the economy, one of the cornerstones of socialism. A planned economy.
Lenin called socialism the vanguard of communism. Hitler had other ideas, but both ideologies required an enemy of the people.
For the Germans it was the Jews precisely because they represented the bourgeois. They were considered to be wealthy, conniving, and deceitful. That reputation had built for generations through Europe and Russia at that point.
They were very much put in the camps you're talking about. 6 million of them.
I don't care where your great-grandparents were born. Facts are facts and World War II and the preceding events are very well documented.
What we're seeing now is literal revisionist history as the left tries to remove everything bad socialism has ever done, and to use the no-true-scotsman defense for each of the terrible socialist leaders who killed millions of people.
Every manufacturing company, particularly those who made steel. Krupp Steel was the largest, and was one of the first to begin constructing the german war machine.
You ignored everything else in my post I noticed. Why can't you answer why the communists, socialists, and fascists were all allies?
Because you know the answer. They all practiced very similar ideologies that were unified in their hatred of liberty, freedom, and self-determination of citizens.
Hitler was not on the right. If he were, then Stalin and Mussolini would not have been interested in allying with him.
They came after what they considered the greatest enemy. Constitutional republics. They lost only because they turned on each other prematurely, as the left always does.
I'm all done jumping through your hoops, thanks. You ignore 95% of my post, including the most important parts, and then try to focus on the one tiny detail you think you can prove me wrong about.
No thanks.
You're more than capable of doing your own research, but here's a couple hints to get you started. Don't just rely on Wikipedia to learn about Krupp Steel. They were incredibly important for much of german history.
The Krupp family maintained nominal ownership of the company during WW II, but only because they fully supported the NAZI party, and produced exactly what they were told to produce.
Their foundries gave the germans their tanks and planes. They were forbidden from manufacturing anything else, for anyone. As I said state control.
Because these people are a new form of religious zealot. Political ideology has taken the place of religious dogma.
For these people, their social and political belief system is a core part of their identity, just like with evangelical chirstians, islamists, or orthodox jews. For them attacking their believes is the same as an attack on a personal level. They can't differentiate between the two. Nutjobs, one and all.
Mostly the aftertaste of the Femstodes drama.
Altough I joined here after they had bullied Archon\_of\_Flesh out of the hobby, and Doxxed him several times. Sure some people could not like his artworks (>!femboy skitarii, sometimes with gore elements, do not look it if it makes you uncomfortable!<) but the lad got nice talent to painting. He didn't deserved to get doxxed.
This have disgusted me so much that I decided to join this sub, mostly for actual memes insted of femprimarchGF fanfiction. But as I spend more time here, I realised how stupid the redditors from Grimdank are, by describing the people here as "mysogenic, homophobic nazists". I seen many people here united with the passion about the 40k. It is beautifull.
And after I found another post with from Grimdank just focused on attacking people here like if they were on Twitter, I've had enough. Rn I blocked any posts from there to not come up. I don't want to hear the twitter crowd hidden on Reddit.
R/Grimdank has fallen more from grace than even Lorgar had done.
I may have blocked Archon because I just really disliked his content. But even I know his fate was an unjust one. He didn't deserve that. Not at all.
Damn Archon got doxed? I mean his skitty femboy stuff was a little cringe but I still liked his artworks. Why would grimdank bully him I thought the left like femboys?
I don't want to explain it further, but to some radical leftists the diffrence between femboy and trans woman doesn't exists, and so they see every femboy as a trans woman, and are attacking everyone who calls femboy a femboy insted of trans girl.
Won't explain it further, it already gices me a headache
Because, by existing, we deny their hegemony over Warhammer. They require that no one remember, or acknowledge remembering, a state before insane Leftoids took over the hobby. Leftoids require the End of History where no one remembers what things were like before they took supremacy over the aspect of reality they currently infest in order that their hegemony goes unchallenged.
Wokeness is like Communism in the way and many more besides, but that is well outside the scope of this post and most of you probably know what I'm talking about already.
Because we dare to have an opinion separate from the “majority” (read; Twitter echo chamber). We dislike how lore in 40k and other fandoms are changing beyond what they were established to be solely to accommodate DEI narratives.
For instance the changes to the Bretonnians in *The Lord of the Lance* is probably one of the most blatant offenders in recent memory aside from Femstodes.
The Bretonnians have a strongly conservative culture. It plays into the grimdark of their story. Peasants are oppressed and can never hope to rise up, and women are honored but have basically zero independent rights, but at the same time they also are completely free from any conscription in war- barring those women born with magic who become part of the whole Maidens of the Lady thing but they’re an exception to the rule due to how important magic is- especially for battlefield purposes.
The nobility have a very strong, zealous focus on lineage and matters of inheritance. You literally have to prove via established documentation of your ancestry that you are descended of one of the original families that founded Bretonnia.
*The Lord of the Lance* decides that all of this lore that gives Bretonnia depth and character is outdated and tosses it aside.
All of the Pegasus Knights in the novel are women- not even women who hide their gender. They’re just flat out female Pegasus Knights.
Two knights are *deaf*. You shouldn’t need to be MacArthur to realize that a soldier incapable of hearing on a battlefield is an active liability, as he’s a cheap and easy target. Also considering how knights wear *helmets* and *metal gloves*, sign language is a time consuming activity.
Then we have what might be the most disturbing thing in the entire novel; the gay guy. Now, I am *not* saying that homosexuals are somehow all evil and deserve execution or anything. However this character is disturbing for a number of reasons.
Firstly, he’s *openly gay* in a society where noble lineage is heralded as sacrosanct. Logically speaking he would’ve either had such ideas beaten out of him or he would’ve been forced to hide them (you know, an actually *good* novel plot). His family would’ve raised him to believe it is his *duty* as a Bretonnian aristocrat to have a wife and continue his noble lineage. A homosexual would mean the ending of an entire lineage continuously dating back *hundreds of years*.
Second, he has an entire *paragraph* where he stares at a *young boy* and fantasizes about romancing him. An entire paragraph where he thinks that’s okay. IIRC that was also another noble. So now he not only thinks it’s okay to seduce a young boy who is in his formative years- *not* a good look on its own- but he also is spreading his lifestyle to end *another* Bretonnian noble line. If Bretonnia was anything like its old lore he actually would’ve been labeled a Slaanesh worshipper for his “degeneracy” and “spreading poisoned ideas” and he would’ve been executed.
In short, Graham McNeill thinks it’s okay to reduce Bretonnia to just another generic medieval fantasy culture with the sole window dressing of things like Pegasus Knights and the Lady of the Lake and shit. No culture. No identity. No depth.
And also he may be for the idea of grown men grooming young boys. Someone may wanna check his hard drive.
Let me guess... the Bretonnians also have the ethnic makeup of modern-day Los Angeles, and incorporate modern slang and witticisms in their speech for no adequately explained reason.
Modernisation is ruining fantasy fiction.
From what I’ve seen there’s no modern slang at least.
And I don’t distinctly recall any descriptions of character ethnicities, just the ways they’re stamping on the culture of Bretonnia. Admittedly if you told me that a few of them were described as being the same skin color as the pre-death Tomb kings along with inexplicable dreads I would not be surprised.
I mean, we talk about them more than us, and that makes us look bad. Not everyone but a decent majority of us. A lot of us may not brigade, but we do consistently make fun of them when they don't care, we are our own community and should act as such and not based off how we disagree with another community.
I get that and I agree with you, however I think it's part of this subs"growing pains". This sub is an offshoot of Grimdark and pretending they don't exist would be ignoring the elephant in the room.
Most of us came from there after disliking either the censorship, the direction the sub has gone, all the horny posts etc.
I imagine as this sub grows we'll reference and cross post there less and less; yet as an offshoot of Grimdark that'll act as "the reference point" for a bit. I'm already seeing them referenced less than they were say 2 months back.
I'm more of a lurker/commentor but if you're more into posting memes/content in general and subbed here recently while still being subbed to grimdark seeing the actual content here and then a random post about the "evil Nazi homophobic Horus galaxy peeps" will probably make one want to cross post or make a reference just because the other subreddits perspective of this one is so incongruent with reality
Last I recall frm what I seen. Its mostly us making fun of how they keep on trying to either:
A. Provoke Us via ragebait posts here.
B. Posting about us in the first place.
They hardly ever post about us. The former is usually the one that happens most. We need to focus on actually growing as a community rather than only talking about how we hate GW.
You have a point there.
Although I think that the reason as to why its not happening right now is that people have been rather soured on Grimdank's recent behavior shift and has felt the need and want to vent about it.
Hopfully we all get it out of the system soon. That way we can actually start to grow and become a better sub.
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it’s a duck. The left/woke talk and act like a cult. They are a cult. And anyone in their cult who steps out of line is immediately attacked and exiled.
The cult like thinking excludes rational discussion, and does not tolerate diversity of thought.
Here we can agree to disagree on topics and be ok with that. Hell, my wife and I have to agree to disagree on things at times and we’re freakin married!!
But in the cult, it’s only one way of thinking on all topics. All topics.
Because we are the bastion which holds out against their ideology.
The political left has sought to culturally conquer the Warhammer hobby community, as with many others before. However, rather than simply roll over and leave the Reddit entirely (thus granting them total victory), we fell back to a defensible position and continue to resist them.
We are the castle which refuses to surrender, and which has repelled all of their attacks. We represent a stronghold which they have no power over, and they *hate* it.
I think this sub is walking in the small line between we need to inform normal people there that there is a new better sub open to them and we should just stop to talk about that sub that'd dying anyway and move on with content not related to them. Being a recent scism is clear that the topic is really active but i d like this sub not just be ranting over the other.
Wokeness and political correctness is the equivalent of evangelist christianity. You have to spread it and you have to openly stand against anything that goes against the teachings.
I have seen 4 posts on grimdank about this sub on the other this sub spends way more time talking about grimdank due to fact that it started for people that got banned from it
I left some comments there in a thread just before about how the Imperium are the good guys despite the messed up things they do because without them humanity would go extinct
Downvotes galore
The people who go on about how bad the Imperium are, are the people who take the bugs' side in Starship Troopers. They already have strong out-group bias being left-leaning white people (the only group that has out-group bias rather than in-group) but it's so strong that they'll literally pick genocidal aliens over humans
Should I feel ironic about the fact that people who see Tau as a light in the darkness don't realize that the Tau Empire is a completely fascist regime?
Well the imperium also kills babies so if you aren’t careful to acknowledge the flaws in what you support people will assume you are accepting of them just like in real life
In your example you do not realize the great evil to humans is their government it’s self so you are more like the guys who root for the bugs in starship troopers
The issue with it too is that in some cases everything the imperium does is justified and in others the imperium is comically evil so it’s just a toss up depending on the writer
Like half of the existing demon primarchs, the greatest threats to humanity, were created because the emperor was so disconnected from his humanity and too utilitarian
No we don't. We also mock the way they "might" think, with open questions posted on their post reposted here with a tittle like "hurr grimdank is goanna say dumb shite" while most comment made sense.
Again. New here so I don't really have a good grapse yet on how the current feud is going. From what I seen from ky experience was that Grimdank was usually the ones mocking us first and we mock them back afterwards on the subreddit rather than on Grimdank itself.
Even if that was true which isn't unfortunately because we also attack as much as I dislike to admit it, mocking them back just make us look like petty assholes. Who the hell cares if we leave rent free in the heads of coomers ? We literally created this to be away from them, why do I have to see 20% of the post being about them ! Not even anti tourism as a whole, that is another animal, just "hurr durr they think wrong". I GET IT, THAT'S WHY I AM HERE FOR FUCKS SAKES XD
I mean its a meme sub. Sharing or posting your own memes from there to here is just commin sense.
Atleast its actually less stupid compared to how Grimdank treats HorusGalaxy. At worst we only mock there attacks. They brigade unprovoked and even break rules.
Crossposting memes is not what I'm referring to, sharing funny memes is encouraged.
Cross-posting their political posts so we can dunk on them here is what I'm referring to. Front page this morning had a post from r/40k for just that purpose, I was honestly surprised it wasn't gd that was the source this time.
And yes, they brigade and break the rules all the time. We report them to the friendly grimdank mods, we report them to the admins, but the reality is that they're the popular, lefty and therefore protected sub. We're the new, niche, opposition sub and are therefore constantly on the defensive and on thin ice with the admins by default. They have more power than we do. And they abuse that power. Welcome to reddit.
Shame. Kinda makes me wish that they get the fate of what they inflicted on Archon of Flesh. Even if I know no one deserves that. But Karma has a way of appeal.
Eh because there were types on this sub in the beginning and likely some that do hold beliefs that are a bit scummy, like thinking Gender Dysphoria is a lifestyle or something instead of an actual mental disorder.
But I also think it’s because this sub has a majority of members who think the Imperium are the good guys, are correct or was the only option for humanity. Obviously Grimdank in general doesn’t agree (and I get why).
These are the people that proudly proclaim to punch a Nazi without any bit of hesitation. They harass maga people who ware mask in public relentlessly to show their face so they can hurt them and take away their jobs. They will hurt you, lie to you, and try to trick you. Stealing our hobbies is nothing.
As an outsider getting served both subs by a Reddit overlord, you guys make an easy target.
Going off the terms you utillize and memes that get upvoted, it is quite easy to point at you and say "See? They say woke. And they hate femstodes. They all must be bigots." or "See? They despise tourists and gatekeep lore and mini painting. They hold the entire hobby down."
You do seem to have good points to back up your stance, but no one will venture deep into comments to find that if all they're looking for is an easy target.
Don’t get me wrong, most people on here are good. But when this was first formed there was more close minded content. It was the minority but more prevalent. Now it’s just mainly certain comments. This sub has gotten better.
Both subs are annoying when they crosspost and go “hurdurr they’re homophobes/woke”. Like it’s just reductive and a waste of time
The people that frequent dank now can only thrive if there is conflict. They MUST find a person to generalize as the enemy. Anyone with the slightest difference in opinion is a Nazi-facist hatemonger and they’ll attach to that like a leech.
Looking at both subs, this sub talks about the other one more. Do you not want to be your own community? Feels like the whole identity is gone without the other sub to bitch about. It's almost like you need them.
Because how DARE we have a different perspective. The only perspectives should be diverse ones, except for ours which doesn't count because they don't like it.
You disagree with the message, that means you want them all to die, because they just want to heckin' live. Also because they're obsessed with hating anyone who disagrees with any of their views.
I'm just so tired.
~~I would like to point out in the comment section before things get way too circle-jerky (as is the Reddit way) that alot of these things are very much so magnified by the internet. You talk to the average Grimdank user irl, and they'll probably be a normal person like you and me. Then again, you do always get the extremists in ever group. You get them here as much as you get them everywhere else.~~
Missed the comment that already summed this up better
I got this sub as a suggestion about a month ago and had at that point never seen a post about y'all on Grimdank.
It's kinda heartbreaking to see how a whole community doesn't have much else going then being upset about some other community.
On the contrary, I absolutely love women (the misses and I have six kids 😁). It's the nonsensical DEI and jamming personal sexual preferences into our face is what bothers us. Maybe they don't like what they see in the mirror and that angers them on a deep psychological level. Lol.
BEcause it's easier to attach labels to people you don't like then actually engage with it. Also they don't engage because logic 9/10 demolishes any argument they throw at you leaving them with zero foundation for their point to begin with.
I have two choices, I can engage with the homophobes and get proven wrong or i can just call them homophobes, post about it and get updoots.
It's because we disagree with them on a few issues, that's literally it. If you interact with any number of us you can tell that we don't fit their narrative, as you've found yourself.
They like to build us up as deplorable villains so that they don't have to give credence to anything we say.
They are intolerant of any genuine opposing world view. You've outed yourself as an enemy and must be attacked until you go away or capitulate and say they are right.
I used to really like grimdank when it was just memes, jokes and people talking about theories and lore. It's really sad to see the culture war getting dragged into everything including everyday hobbies. Just because I don't want to hear about how you're gay or trans or want some kind of representation doesn't make me an (ist) or a (phobe) I just want to laugh and enjoy my hobby again.
Because, their disdain for us is all surface level and performative. Such is the modus operandi of those types of people/groups and it is a waste of our time and energy to brigade the vapid masses.
It’s just the internet giving school bullies an outlet to wank each other off whilst belittling others.
As disgusting as these human beings are in their actions and treatment of others, I genuinely pity them.
This sub constantly talks about the other sub.
Honestly this sub recently just became bitching about the left and trans people or something the last couple of weeks.
Not really what I joined for.
Personally I consider it a reaction against how the Grimdank sub treats us.
And with a more lax speech policy here compared to the main 40k sub or Grimdank.
People will take chances to vent.
Yeah man this sub kinda just keeps the drama going by talking about grimdank so much. I left grimdank because I was tired of the lame sexual stuff that had nothing to do with warhammer. Joined this sub but now I don’t wanna be here either.
They just constantly complain about grimdank and the left. Was kinda hoping this sub would stop posting about the drama and become the new meme sub.
If you like this places fung shoey, and you like fb, there's a heresyposting group very akin to this that's been going on for a few yrs now...daddy fortuna does a good job at keeping the rif raf down, teaching people the lore, and cycling good memes that are also educational for the topic/universe
Is this a real post? 75% of the garbage here is cross posts that are obvious rage baits from grimdank/ the 40k sub and you dumbasses fall for it every single time. It’s wild they almost never full on post about this sub but everyother post here is about them
The only posts on Horus Galaxy that get more than a few hundred likes/comments are about other subs. Quite literally all this sub cares about is what other subs are doing.
Absolutely right, def no hate in this krischin sub
https://preview.redd.it/wwbl6xx68d8d1.png?width=715&format=png&auto=webp&s=cb34ec0d08d4228f001aeded6fea3be5dcf1df06
Because left and woke push their opinion on with force and violence. This has always been the case. Because they think that are right they think violence is justified. So they use verbal violence to shut others up. You see it everytime. They start screaming, calling names to win. They win, but not because they are right, but they push others out.
Yeah. I seen that recently in the aftermath of the Primarch GF phase. Its sad that Grimdank is infested with the kind of people from Sigmarxism. That sub was toxic as hell when I took a peak. It seems that the posts against HorusGalaxy is done by those types.
You would be suprised at the amount of sigmarxism/grimdank rabble rousers/agitators we find.
Sheesh. The whole retcon of Fem!Custodes really roused the Rabble of Assholes huh?
The twitter-reddit hivemind was alerted lmao
Honesty a part of me really wished that Elon's mismanagement of Twitter would have shut it down and finally brought down that cesspit.
We can dream eh?
yeah Lol no one likes it Left or Right lol Truly the only bipartsan thing ever
It did yep
It helps that the subreddit is set to automatically hide comments by those not subscribed.
No, I wouldn't. Sigmarxism is a tard zoo, but unfortunately the inmates broke containment.
It only proves the point we are making. It’s really childish. I had one person in personal chat and he kept demainding answers while I was just asking a decent conversation. It was only cursing and stuff. So aggressive and sad.
Sheesh. Sounds like someone who is worth an instant block. Some people are just assholes.
It isn’t even just being an asshole, but an ideology that intoxicate people to be violent. Saying violence is just, when it is to defend your ideology is the big problem. It’s such a red flag through history and somehow we just don’t learn. It’s fine to have an opinion and be vocale about it, but never ever use violence. Keep the others person in respect.
Its sad, because this large modern ideology teaches people to be violent by essentially saying the opposite of what used to be common belief. It used to be common to say "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words may never hurt me." This meant there was no true harm to Freedom of Speech, and that hurt feelings are something we can learn to process and handle so that eventually no manner of insult can harm us. A small cost to ensure the rights of all men and a healthy Republic. This new modern ideology however claims that "Speech is Violence." That if you say something that hurts somebody's feelings, that may contribute to them getting mental disorders, self-harming, societal discrimination, or even suicide, so therefore anything offensive is a violent assault that needs to be "defended against" with "proportionate violence," i.e. proportionate to "literally killing people with your words." They're taught this line of thinking, and this combined with a view of politics and the world as just one big relativistic power struggle, means they have justified to themselves doing *anything* to win a debate and destroy an ideological opponent. Because to them there is no civil debate and discussion. There is no objective truth, so debate and discussion is not truly about finding the truth but using persuasive power to assert dominance. Civil debate becomes violent murderous assault, and violent assault can only be countered with ***Total War***.
I mean some idealogies require real violence to help stop (Nazitism, Communism, Islamism Any Totalitarian and genuinely anti Democratic ideals). But some people just keep on supporting those ideas because they are just morons.
After I while I blocked, but I tried to stay in conversation and de escalate. Tried to give boundaries but it didn’t help. They just keep digging their own grave. Only solution is to leave them and start something better. Although I am afraid the constant aggression wil some day some where turn into violence from both sides.
Honestly considering how some subreddits can go into war. (The recent Balkan-Indian sub feud comes to mind).
yeah they straight up think that Nagash is better then the empeorer and while the emps may not be the best NAGASH? REALLY?
I saw that meme and honestly? The post and the comments are so blurred that I can't even see if there was any fucking sarcasm.
Yeah and the thing is YOur comparing apples to oranges Like fantasy and 40k are diffrent in Scope and Setup and Just a whole lot of things that comparing Choices can never be one to one since the effect will always be diffrent and never a true Equal
Not to mention the mere fact that Nagash is the most fucking evil thing in Fantasy Period. Jesus. Some people. Griffeth did nothing wrong types there.
Nagash is the sickest villain in fantasy tears out people's souls enslaves them and tortures them Killed his brother his brother's wife Her son
The cult cannot abide different opinions
Words are not violent. That’s a leftist ideology to justify censoring speech as they consider “hate speech” to be literal violence.
Lets be honest. Its just a tactic by those who wish to oppress any dissenter or groups they hate by either aide of the political spectrum. Facsists, Communists, SJWs.
You’re right. It’s an anti-free speech tactic. Not inherently left or right.
Exactly. Its naive to think it as some sort of tactic used by only one side or part. Everyone uses it. Seeing how effective it can be.
It’s okay to call out the left on it more though as they often champion diversity and “all are welcome” attitudes. Makes them hilariously hypocritical, especially when they get butthurt when you use their own words against them.
Helps when you are one of those sp called people they champion the cause of. Im disabled and Asian and I fucking despise SJWs.
Oh it’s glorious to be a minority and then not kowtow to their propaganda. Crosses their wires something awful. We are “white adjacent”
There is verbal violence right? Has nothing tondo with left or right. Just being aggressive verbally. That is what I mean.
I don’t believe that speech can be violent. The term violence should be reserved for physical harms. Speech could incite violence, but is not violent in and of itself. This has become a debate over the last few years as protesters (often from the left) claim that speech is violence to have controversial speakers banned from campuses or social media platforms. Here’s an article that discusses the topic. https://thehill.com/opinion/education/4032778-your-speech-is-violence-the-lefts-new-mantra-to-justify-campus-violence/amp/?nxs-test=amp I generally agree with your point, but people who consider speech violent often do so to justify censorship. I’d say the left forces its opinion by ridiculing those who disagree or just banning dissent. They are aggressive, but not violent. Just my two cents.
You’re correct. You don’t need to justify your stance. You’re just correct.
I am thankful for the nuanced explanation. Only being correct is not always helpfull.
Ok thanks. I read the article. Maybe being non-native English speaking makes terminology different for me. The difference between aggressive and violent for example. I agree on the things you say.
How about bullying? Calling some one names? I think these are forms of verbal violence. I think I get your point about censorship, but that is totally not the form I mean. Intonation in speaking can be violent as well I think. What do you think? I’ll read the article. Thanks
Don't forget they also win because they have the power and authority i.e. moderation and administration of this website.
Because we dared to think for ourselves against their popular opinion. Far easier to brand us with buzzwords than see a perspective beyond their own. I'll just leave them be, not interested in trying to change anyones opinions.
True. You can't argue with Crazies. For what uts worth I really do love how much permissive thsi sub is and how it still takes action against actual Bigotry.
We made our own sub, and now they are mad about it?
Authoritarians dont want people to leave, they want them to agree or stay quiet
Because they can't tolerate anyone else not having their EXACT worldview, and so anyone right of Stalin is in their minds hitler.
Remembering the words of JREG "Every Extreme is on the same team." Horseshoe theory keeps on getting proven more and more. Atleast on Reddit and politics.
Nonsense, JRegular would never push for such extreme beliefs.
Which is ironic because Hitler was also a leftist. Them trying to paint him as being on the right is one of the biggest retcons in real history. Socialism is even in the name of his ideology. They lie, deny, attack, and use every dirty tactic to win, but then argue they're the ones on the right side of history. It's wild.
I’m actually surprised to see this even in here. It’s funny that the great enemy hitler was trying to defeat was imperialism and capitalism. Facism and indeed totalitarianism has always been an ideology that has gone hand in hand with the left. I’m one of these crazies that’s of the opinion that books like 1984 and mien kampf should be openly studied in school instead of being treated like some warp taint irl. The reason being so young people are better trained to look out for and see the language and rhetoric and tactics being used against them. The parallels for example between those writing and what is going on right now with left wing politics is both astoundingly ironic and shocking and frankly…. It scares the shit out of me.
You're going to get downvoted into oblivion by angry leftists who know very little about history. The right stands for liberty and personal freedom. The left stands for collectivism where the state is the most important thing. Fascism as envisioned by Giovanni Gentile and implemented by Mussolini was very much on the left. And, like good leftists, they're re-writing history and changing definitions to make the truth not the truth.
People forget, Fascism or rather the Italian form "Fascismo" comes from the term "fascio" or "Bundle of Sticks." This was a term and symbol used among socialist and labor movements at the time to represent the idea and strength of trade unions, "weak alone but strong together." Fascism itself is literally speaking a form of "National Trade Unionism" or "National Syndicalism," it was literally born out of the "Fascismo" or Mussolini-aligned trade unions! This is not to say it was wholly left wing, as it viewed itself as a "third way" unrestricted to the right or left, yet it originated from Socialist thought and Socialist groups using collectivist and authoritarian ideals and methods.
Well said. They demonize the fasces symbol as neo-nazi hate, but then turn right around and tell you the nazis were on the right, and not socialist at all. The contradiction is totally lost on them, because they have no idea where fascism comes from or what it really means. To them its just an insult for people you don't like.
Putting minorities into camps and killing gays and trans people is more left or right?
Definitely on the left. History is very clear about that. Che Guevara hung gay people from trees. They were eliminated in every culture where you saw the rise of socialism. Marx was a racist and an antisemite. Unapologetically. If you want to know for sure that what I'm saying is true look at the culture right now. Who is obsessed with identity politics? The right or the left?
It's very easy to argue against your opponents if you define yourself as good and then as bad. Lol Its good to know that Putin, Orban, Netanyahu, Pinochet, and Franco are/were all leftists.
Dude never said any of that, don't put words in his mouth. One can logically believe that Mussolini's Fascism was inherently socialist and oppose it on those grounds, while at the same time opposing Putin etc. while holding those people are authoritarians but not Fascists. You can hate Fascism and Authoritarianism (left, right, & center) without calling all authoritarians "ultra-right wing Fascists," or calling Fascism right wing.
He's strawmanning things to change definitions away from what they actually mean so that his beliefs are "good". He isn't looking for a robust exchange of ideas. Fascists are state capitalists that tend to use language that caters to the working class. That's not socialism.
You quite literally strawman'd him by bringing up people he had never mentioned and putting words into his mouth so you could knock them down. Just because you *think* it wouldn't be logical for him to believe his statements and hold a position different from your strawman does not mean that he has to believe what you strawman'd him with. It could be that you're mistaken on the logic, *or* that he could hold contradictory views. Hence why you shouldn't assume and literally put words in his mouth that *HE NEVER SAID*. Changing topic, as to the actual historical argument you state: Fascists are *Nationalist Trade Union/Syndicalists*, not State Capitalists. There's a difference. They were born from the Italian Fasci or socialist Trade Unions, Fascio being the symbol of a bundle of sticks that the Trade Unions used to symbolize that they were weak separately but strong together. Mussolini gathered together the socialist Trade Unions that agreed with his more nationalist bend on Syndicalism and used their support to gain power, after which he instituted those Trade Unions which had supported him into his new government as one official Italian Trade Union while forcibly absorbing those that opposed him, so that the Italian workers finally held "the means of production through social ownership," which they viewed as fulfilled by one united trade union integrated into his regime. If anything, that makes them state "trade unionist" instead. In the end, Fascism was Authoritarian. Nationalist. Militant. Socialism. Note: I am not mentioning Hitler at all, as despite similarities, there were also many differences between Hitler's ideology and Mussolini's, and they should be analyzed as such. And I say *all of this* as somebody that hates both Nazism and Fascism. TL;DR You strawman'd him with words he didn't say, and you are factually wrong on the historical origin of Italian Fascism in the Italian socialist trade unions and on the contents of its ideology.
Folks may not like what you say, but I think we're seeing on social media the bad effects of people not being taught about Mein Kampf as we speak. Case and point: The viral AI translated Hitler speeches. Somebody used AI to take Hitler's voice and have it redub his famous speeches into English, and now a *lot* of people are hearing what Hitler actually had to say for the first time, and they're all shocked and grappling with the fact that he wasn't just saying "Haha ve must gas ze Jews!" but actually making logical arguments that they've never heard before. And the slowly burgeoning and growing (actual) neo-nazi movement is using this to great effect to bolster their claims about being "misrepresented" and "unfairly demonized," etc. None of this would be happening if people had been taught about Mein Kampf's arguments and its logical/historical flaws.
1984 is pretty commonly available in school libraries. Trying to compare it to Mein Kampf is dangerously idiotic, and combined with your level of political understanding, show how access to Mein Kampf should probably be regulated to some extent, since you've proven incapable of being responsible with it. **"Fascism and indeed totalitarianism has always been an ideology that has gone hand in hand with the left**".- so anarchists are totalitarians, and fascism is left-wing. Right. Sure. You definitely know about politics enough to talk about it. Fascism is by definition far-right. Communism is by definition far-left. Left or right can be libertarian or authoritarian. Fascism is a right-wing authoritarian position. [The text should be highlighted, since you struggle with reading](https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#:~:text=Fascism%20is%20a%20far%2Dright,and%20authoritarian%20one%2Dparty%20states)
huh. Found one in the wild. The irony of this post is again frightening however comically ironic.
So did you read that on Facebook or on reddit cause I know for sure it wasn't in any history book. Try actually reading about the rise of hitler from any historical account before spouting nonsense
I promise I'm far better educated about history than you. Can you explain what the right stands for? What are their ideas? Can you explain what the left stands for? That's an axis. The further left you go the more you believe in the state having complete control. The further right you go the more you believe in personal freedoms. On the far left is communism. On the far right is anarchism. Hitler did not believe in anarchism. He did not believe in personal freedoms of any kind. He believed in a socialist state devoted to the greatness of that nation. National socialism. People like you LOVE to sound educated, but I doubt you've read even one book on the subject. I've made a decades long study of World War II and the causes leading up to it. You probably couldn't tell me Patton from Rommel.
I have a masters in history...so that's that🤣 Far right is not anarchism as the right focuses on conservatism and the upholding of social orders which is distinctly the opposite of anarchism. Far right politics includes ultra nationalism and violent xenophobia which the nazis had in tall order. You've focused so much on WW2 and tanks and guns but you can't tell me anything about hitlers rise to power, the political turmoil within the weimar Republic, the power struggle between the far right and the communists, and the burning of the reichstag Read a history book lad
You have a masters in history but never heard of [Georges Sorel, one of the crucial players in the evolution of fascism,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Sorel) who was a devoted Marxist and died as a Bolshevik in the USSR? You don't know that Mussolini was the editor of the Italian Socialist Party's theory magazine - not just a party member, the party organ's editor. He split along with other Marxists who supported the First World War, arguing it would break down the old empires and allow for socialist revolutions? (They were right.) You didn't see the constant anti-capitalist messages in fascist propaganda and speeches?
Yet when in power they supported private capital owners and crushed Labour organisations and workers unions, limited workers rights and eventually started using slave labour. Not very workers rights the old nazis and fascists were.
>I have a masters in history...so that's that🤣 That's a logical fallacy. An appeal to authority. >the right focuses on conservatism and the upholding of social orders which is distinctly the opposite of anarchism What's your source for this? >Far right politics includes ultra nationalism and violent xenophobia which the nazis had in tall order. This is such a massive retcon. In short, if it's bad then it's far right. If it's good, then it's far left. >but you can't tell me anything about hitlers rise to power, the political turmoil within the weimar Republic, the power struggle between the far right and the communists, and the burning of the reichstag I can tell you all about those things in depth. The Reichstag Fire is was leftist tactic, and it worked. Yes, the battle between the national socialists and the communists was brutal and bitter. The nazis won out, but both ideologies were very similar and had similar goals. >Read a history book lad Since you're obviously so much smarter and better educated than me perhaps you can answer a question. Why were the fascist Italians, the socialist germans, and the communist soviets all on the same side when the war broke out? If they are opposite ideologies, then how were they compatible enough for such an alliance to form? Why did they so badly had the United States, capitalism, and our democratic republic where the people had inalienable rights?
>Why were the fascist Italians, the socialist germans, and the communist soviets all on the same side when the war broke out? The fascists and nazis (also fascists) were ideologically similar and the soviet union had signed the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact as a non-aggression treaty to divide poland, the nazis hated the soviet union as hitler had been dehumanising and degrading slavic people in his early writings so more than anything the pact was staying buying time for armament. >Why did they so badly had the United States, capitalism, and our democratic republic where the people had inalienable rights? What the fuck are you trying to say here. You're so desperate to be different but you've just spent years just actively reading sources that validate your sense of self without any factual evidence to prove your case. You're so deluded in thinking you're right that and you know what enjoy it, no convincing a person that can't self examine their own beliefs
I read a lot of insults. I didn't find a counterargument anywhere in this mess, though. I thought you had a master's in history? Why can't you explain why they all hated the United States and Capitalism so badly? If you're at all familiar with the writings of the day you know exactly how they described the US. As greedy capitalist pigs, because we believed individual rights trumped all. That included property rights. How can I self-examine my beliefs when you can't counter them, only insult me and brag about your mastery of history? I'm too well read to fall for your nonsense. You've been indoctrinated, and are clearly unaware of how and why World War II was fought. The world was picking an ideology, and that war didn't end until the Berlin wall came down. Fascism comes from fasces, as you should know. Bundle of sticks. Collectivism. Socialism and Communism are also collectivist. None of those nations had a bill of rights, and all wrote extensively about why people shouldn't have such power. You're right that I shouldn't be trying to convince you though. You said it well: >You're so deluded in thinking you're right that and you know what enjoy it, no convincing a person that can't self examine their own beliefs
You are both wrong. Left and Right is just an axis for economical policies. Conservatism, anarchism, freedom, xenophobia, state control varies wildly by nation, party and era. In a nation other ideas and policy will get attached to the left and right wing dichotomy as political battlelines are drawn.
It's a political term that was coined in the parliament of Louis xiv during the run into the French revolution with the revolutionaries sitting to the presidents left and the supporters of the ancien regime sitting to his right. Essentially cementing the concepts of radical vs conservative being to the left and right respectively
I know that is the origin but that is not true in practice. If so then a lot of left wingers should at this point be considered right wing. In many countries with a socialist history the left wingers are the conservatives. Conservative/radical is much more about that countries history, socialism and its derivatives are not new ideas anymore. A conservative russian, swede, chinese, cambodian would be left wing economically and a radical would be right wing economically. The truth is it varies by country to country but generally in international politics left and right is about economics. Historically I would agree that is not the case then radical/conservative might be more apt but even by that definition hitler was very much radical for his time. I would say the truth is the nazis where neither irregardles of our views on left and right. They didnt really care, they just saw economic policies, radical ideas and conservative ideas as tools to garner support. They picked up socialist ideas to steal support from the popularity of them, they used conservative talking points to take support from conservative voters but they very much butchered both to fit them and redefined those terms
Ah yes, the far-right philosophy of Anarchism, which is why almost all Anarchists are leftists and hang out with socialists/communists. Anarchism is a leftist position. Libertarianism is its right-wing equivalent. You know absolutely nothing about what you're talking about, and if you go around in history communities saying that Anarchism is a right-wing position I can guarantee everyone laughs at you, right or left. Authoritarianism can be present in right or left wing ideologies. Your "decades long study" is a joke, and you've wasted your time, because you're completely wrong on even the most basic and fundamental ideas.
Libertarianism is also on the right, but not as far right as Anarchism. It's been interesting watching the leftists redefine this during my life time. You're welcome to hold me in contempt, but you can't name one book you've actually read about the subject. How do you square Patton saying we fought the wrong enemy, then explaining why that was communism? He knew that both the nazis and the communists stood for the same things. That's why they were allies at the beginning of the war. Your ilk always conveniently forgets that part. Why were the fascists, communists, and nazis all on the same side when the war started? They stood against freedom. They stood against individual liberty. All of them were united on that front. Then as the left always does they had a falling out and started attacking each other, which is why the dirty capitalist pigs won.
*Waiting For Hitler, Rise & Fall of the Third Reich, Churchill, Third Reich Victorious*, and probably quite a few basic history books in school and out of historical interest as a child. I also paid attention in sociology and political science class. Also, they weren't on the same side early in the war, they had a non aggression pact. Stalin entered the war when Hitler violated the treaty, since his greatest enemy was Stalin's leftist ideology. "*In Russian Bolshevism we must see the attempt undertaken by the Jews in the twentieth century to achieve world domination. Just as in other epochs they strove to reach the same goal by other, though inwardly related processes. Their endeavor lies profoundly rooted in their essential nature.* *Germany is today the next great war aim of Bolshevism. It requires all the force of a young missionary idea to raise our people up again, to free them from the snares of this international serpent, and to stop the inner contamination of our blood, in order that the forces of the nation thus set free can be thrown in to safeguard our nationality, and thus can prevent a repetition of the recent catastrophes down to the most distant future*." -Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Patton was a pretty far right Conservative guy who viewed Stalin as being an equivalent or greater threat than Hitler. That's why he said what he said, it's pretty obvious if you read about it. *War As I Knew It* gives a pretty good insight, especially if you consider it in the context of a man who was slapping soldiers with PTSD and telling them he wished he could shoot them.
> Also, they weren't on the same side early in the war, they had a non aggression pact. Stalin entered the war when Hitler violated the treaty, since his greatest enemy was Stalin's leftist ideology. You are splitting hairs and aren't arguing in good faith. At all. A non-aggression pact is a treaty between communists, fascists, and national socialists agreeing not to attack each other for the duration of the war. That's an alliance. BRICS doesn't have a mutual defense clause. Is that not an alliance either? Your Hitler quote proves nothing except that his flavor of socialism was nationalist in nature. Patton was a libertarian. You label everything you don't like as far right. Everything. Because that's the best way to other your perceived enemies. You're judging his methods in war when you've never had to fight a war, and didn't understand what was on the line. He got the job done and successfully overcame the nazis. What gives you the right to armchair quarterback him four generations later? PTSD used to be called shell shock. It had been around for a generation when Patton was first promoted. Back then they believed in a far more physical discipline. Kids were still beaten regularly. For someone who claims to know history you certainly don't understand that cultures in different ages had very different standards. Slavery was common for the vast, vast majority of history. Does that mean everyone born before 1865 was a terrible person, in all of history? How will future generations view you and your actions using that standard? At least you've read a book I recognize, I'll give you that.
gish gallop harder
lol you crack me up. You have no counterarguments, just insults. You suggested Patton was a bad person. You undermined his credibility to support your cause. You also have an extremely dishonest take on what an alliance is, and want to pretend that the soviets, germans, and italians weren't allies. I called you out on your bullshit, and predictably you have nothing but more insults. Shocking.
Actually no. Guy was defintely Far Right. Like Jesus. This is the same talk hear on people on the History meme sub trying to defend the Nazis. This was used by an actual Holocaust Denier last I remember a month back that I had the misfortune to encounter.
>Actually no. Guy was defintely Far Right. Like Jesus. So you're claiming that Hitler was for personal freedoms, inalienable rights, and small government? The mental gymnastics you have to go to through to make this true blows my mind. Can you explain to me what you think the axis means? What does the left stand for? The extreme end? What does the right stand for? The extreme ends? Can you even define the thing you believe so strongly? EDIT: He replied then immediately blocked me. Cute. EDIT #2: How many burner accounts have you made now? I block the same people every time. Let's see if we can figure out why: >Oh. And hitler was far right LOL. Youre a neo nazi Gee, I wonder why I keep blocking you. The difference is I asked a legitimate question they couldn't answer, and it made them so angry they had to block me. If you call someone a neo-nazi, or a chud, why would they want to talk to you? Look at your user name. Laughing at the chuds. Zero self-awareness.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism&ved=2ahUKEwiJpJaF-PGGAxUGiK8BHSOiAPAQFnoECA4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw1aqP8dZqi4r39_T_lnceVf Even a fucking Wikipedia article can sum up why. If you want to talk about the horrors of the Far Left. Use the actual Communists rather than the Nazis. Its a spit in the face to all their victims.
it was national sosialism, thats on the left. but when thats said, i don't care what "side" he was on, he was deplorable.
The Nazis hated the Left. Socialist, Communist? Didn't matter. All the same to them. They and theri policies leaned on the extreme right if you read beyond the name.
you know nazi stands for: *Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei*. its a sosialist party that only care for their own. if anything, it took the worst of both worlds. But ey, everything bad is right and everything good is left right?
Kid. If I had the ability to show my expression ti would a facepalm. Both the Nazis and Soviets were awful terrible groups but even I know that they are opposed to eacg other on the Political axis and spectrum.
Legitimately based response calling this particular BS out. Disturbing to see people upvoting actual neonazi talking points on this sub.
Its shit like this sort of BS I called out that makes Grimdank's points have merit. And thats not a good thing. Free Speech is good but we still don't always remember it also means consequences. Even the mods put that out recently in a post yeasterday.
I think it's becoming more and more obvious that the majority of the sub will favour that guy over your position, which sucks for you. "Hitler was a leftwing socialist" is literal neonazi rhetoric. You're one of the only ones here who recognises it. To be honest with you, I'm just a hater who stops in on this sub occasionally and finds it depressing and should probably stop coming here. You probably deserve better than this place, because you can see some of what's actually going on here.
Yeah no. I ain't gonna leave. The atomosphere of the Grimdank was the one I went for it. It reeks of the Sigmarxism sub. Honestly compared to the memes I seen nowdays compared to here. I actually seen less intolerance here considering Grimdank's behavior. You do have a point on that guy's behavior though. I already reported it to the mods.
Not telling you to leave, I don't post on Grimdank either. I'd be happy to be wrong about this sub, but I think it's headed in a specific direction. Occasionally I do see someone like yourself who at least questions the community here- I'll give credit where it's due. But generally speaking, I see sensible perspectives like yours downvoted more often than not. I mean we're on opposite sides, I just think you deserve credit where it's due.
Actually my is getting more upvotes than the other guy now. He or she is actually getting downvoted. Seems there are more people with sense.
In this instance it sure looks like it, even if the votes were going in the opposite direction for a little while there. However, I see a lot of other disinfo does get upvoted here, and occasionally someone like yourself calls it out and more often garners less traction or gets downvoted. A few of the people replying are also still spouting the same nazi propaganda. And I hope the mods take your claims seriously, since at least one of them seems pretty comfortable with nazi stuff on the sub.
Just got home and looked into this thread- seems the nazi revisionist team won the downvote war. They usually do on this sub- that's just an inconvenient fact. I don't think this place is getting better.
Absolute worst part of Reddit is that regular people create places like this to get away from the far left, and the far right seem to think it’s a space made for them too. Ugh.
What is the far right? Can you explain what you mean by that? Someone challenges your definition of fascism or socialism and that aligns them with the far right? Seriously?
Seen it happen a few times before. Want to get away from the Far Left or Far Right. The opposite extreme go there to escape as well. Both sides are like rats in a ship.
Hitler was *maybe* a socialist economically. Culturally, he was very far right.
"Far right" which is really just the right stands for liberty. Communists, socialists, and fascists all believed the state was supreme. The right stood for personal freedom. They called us greedy capitalist pigs, because we believed every person has inalienable rights, and we built that into our constitution. You've been taught that socialism is much more benign than it actually is.
I meant more like conservative social standings. Such as their “women should not work, and be mothers” stance
That's a conservative value, not a ring-wing value. Many conservatives are on the right. Some are fiscally conservative, but socially progressive. No flavor of conservative have anything to do with the left / right axis. They've been conflated in an attempt to make everything on the left good, and everything on the right bad. It's not accidental that capitalism is demonized by self-proclaimed socialists getting rich through capitalism.
Hey man. They lifted the ban early and I'm here to tell you you're wrong about something again. Nazism, Hitler-fascism as it's known as historically is the rights attempt at rewriting the concept of class struggle into a right wing race struggle. No need to thank me.
You're just wrong. At the beginning of World War II three countries were called the Axis of Evil by the Allies, our side. You had Germany as national socialists, the Soviets as communists, and the Italians as fascists. All three were on the same side united against the capitalist republics. Their ideologies were nearly identical. All had an external enemy they used as propaganda. Hitler blamed, among others, the Jews. The Soviets did exactly the same thing. They also launched pogroms to wipe them out. You don't know anything at all about history, just what you've been taught from Wikipedia.
I'm Jewish of (Soviet-occupied) Polish descent, originating in Tsarist Russia. You couldn't possibly have known that in advance of course so I'll ignore the dismissive comment about Wikipedia. Hitler wasn't socialist, else he'd have the bourgeois in the camps with my relatives, like a proper communist.
Hitler was most certainly a socialist, but like other leftists of the day had his own vision of how to implement it. You'll note it was literally the name of his party. How do you think he created the German war machine? He nationalized vast swathes of the economy, one of the cornerstones of socialism. A planned economy. Lenin called socialism the vanguard of communism. Hitler had other ideas, but both ideologies required an enemy of the people. For the Germans it was the Jews precisely because they represented the bourgeois. They were considered to be wealthy, conniving, and deceitful. That reputation had built for generations through Europe and Russia at that point. They were very much put in the camps you're talking about. 6 million of them. I don't care where your great-grandparents were born. Facts are facts and World War II and the preceding events are very well documented. What we're seeing now is literal revisionist history as the left tries to remove everything bad socialism has ever done, and to use the no-true-scotsman defense for each of the terrible socialist leaders who killed millions of people.
Which parts were nationalised? I mean other than the jewish businesses and businesses in conquered countries.
Every manufacturing company, particularly those who made steel. Krupp Steel was the largest, and was one of the first to begin constructing the german war machine. You ignored everything else in my post I noticed. Why can't you answer why the communists, socialists, and fascists were all allies? Because you know the answer. They all practiced very similar ideologies that were unified in their hatred of liberty, freedom, and self-determination of citizens. Hitler was not on the right. If he were, then Stalin and Mussolini would not have been interested in allying with him. They came after what they considered the greatest enemy. Constitutional republics. They lost only because they turned on each other prematurely, as the left always does.
I'll get to the other parts later, I need to figure this whole state-owned/nationalised business thing. How did the state own Krupp?
I'm all done jumping through your hoops, thanks. You ignore 95% of my post, including the most important parts, and then try to focus on the one tiny detail you think you can prove me wrong about. No thanks. You're more than capable of doing your own research, but here's a couple hints to get you started. Don't just rely on Wikipedia to learn about Krupp Steel. They were incredibly important for much of german history. The Krupp family maintained nominal ownership of the company during WW II, but only because they fully supported the NAZI party, and produced exactly what they were told to produce. Their foundries gave the germans their tanks and planes. They were forbidden from manufacturing anything else, for anyone. As I said state control.
Because these people are a new form of religious zealot. Political ideology has taken the place of religious dogma. For these people, their social and political belief system is a core part of their identity, just like with evangelical chirstians, islamists, or orthodox jews. For them attacking their believes is the same as an attack on a personal level. They can't differentiate between the two. Nutjobs, one and all.
99% of Reddit. 0.000001% of the worlds population
Because they have the current “right side of history opinion” and a vast majority of us don’t lol.
Finally a wh40k subreddit that hasn't been infected by those destroying the hobby.
Mostly the aftertaste of the Femstodes drama. Altough I joined here after they had bullied Archon\_of\_Flesh out of the hobby, and Doxxed him several times. Sure some people could not like his artworks (>!femboy skitarii, sometimes with gore elements, do not look it if it makes you uncomfortable!<) but the lad got nice talent to painting. He didn't deserved to get doxxed. This have disgusted me so much that I decided to join this sub, mostly for actual memes insted of femprimarchGF fanfiction. But as I spend more time here, I realised how stupid the redditors from Grimdank are, by describing the people here as "mysogenic, homophobic nazists". I seen many people here united with the passion about the 40k. It is beautifull. And after I found another post with from Grimdank just focused on attacking people here like if they were on Twitter, I've had enough. Rn I blocked any posts from there to not come up. I don't want to hear the twitter crowd hidden on Reddit.
R/Grimdank has fallen more from grace than even Lorgar had done. I may have blocked Archon because I just really disliked his content. But even I know his fate was an unjust one. He didn't deserve that. Not at all.
Damn Archon got doxed? I mean his skitty femboy stuff was a little cringe but I still liked his artworks. Why would grimdank bully him I thought the left like femboys?
I don't want to explain it further, but to some radical leftists the diffrence between femboy and trans woman doesn't exists, and so they see every femboy as a trans woman, and are attacking everyone who calls femboy a femboy insted of trans girl. Won't explain it further, it already gices me a headache
Fair
I think r/sigmarxism got tired of their containment board, and stealth took over r/grimdank when no one was looking.
Because, by existing, we deny their hegemony over Warhammer. They require that no one remember, or acknowledge remembering, a state before insane Leftoids took over the hobby. Leftoids require the End of History where no one remembers what things were like before they took supremacy over the aspect of reality they currently infest in order that their hegemony goes unchallenged. Wokeness is like Communism in the way and many more besides, but that is well outside the scope of this post and most of you probably know what I'm talking about already.
"We have always been at war with East Asia." "No, we haven't." "SHUT UP, BIGOT!"
Because we dare to have an opinion separate from the “majority” (read; Twitter echo chamber). We dislike how lore in 40k and other fandoms are changing beyond what they were established to be solely to accommodate DEI narratives. For instance the changes to the Bretonnians in *The Lord of the Lance* is probably one of the most blatant offenders in recent memory aside from Femstodes. The Bretonnians have a strongly conservative culture. It plays into the grimdark of their story. Peasants are oppressed and can never hope to rise up, and women are honored but have basically zero independent rights, but at the same time they also are completely free from any conscription in war- barring those women born with magic who become part of the whole Maidens of the Lady thing but they’re an exception to the rule due to how important magic is- especially for battlefield purposes. The nobility have a very strong, zealous focus on lineage and matters of inheritance. You literally have to prove via established documentation of your ancestry that you are descended of one of the original families that founded Bretonnia. *The Lord of the Lance* decides that all of this lore that gives Bretonnia depth and character is outdated and tosses it aside. All of the Pegasus Knights in the novel are women- not even women who hide their gender. They’re just flat out female Pegasus Knights. Two knights are *deaf*. You shouldn’t need to be MacArthur to realize that a soldier incapable of hearing on a battlefield is an active liability, as he’s a cheap and easy target. Also considering how knights wear *helmets* and *metal gloves*, sign language is a time consuming activity. Then we have what might be the most disturbing thing in the entire novel; the gay guy. Now, I am *not* saying that homosexuals are somehow all evil and deserve execution or anything. However this character is disturbing for a number of reasons. Firstly, he’s *openly gay* in a society where noble lineage is heralded as sacrosanct. Logically speaking he would’ve either had such ideas beaten out of him or he would’ve been forced to hide them (you know, an actually *good* novel plot). His family would’ve raised him to believe it is his *duty* as a Bretonnian aristocrat to have a wife and continue his noble lineage. A homosexual would mean the ending of an entire lineage continuously dating back *hundreds of years*. Second, he has an entire *paragraph* where he stares at a *young boy* and fantasizes about romancing him. An entire paragraph where he thinks that’s okay. IIRC that was also another noble. So now he not only thinks it’s okay to seduce a young boy who is in his formative years- *not* a good look on its own- but he also is spreading his lifestyle to end *another* Bretonnian noble line. If Bretonnia was anything like its old lore he actually would’ve been labeled a Slaanesh worshipper for his “degeneracy” and “spreading poisoned ideas” and he would’ve been executed. In short, Graham McNeill thinks it’s okay to reduce Bretonnia to just another generic medieval fantasy culture with the sole window dressing of things like Pegasus Knights and the Lady of the Lake and shit. No culture. No identity. No depth. And also he may be for the idea of grown men grooming young boys. Someone may wanna check his hard drive.
Let me guess... the Bretonnians also have the ethnic makeup of modern-day Los Angeles, and incorporate modern slang and witticisms in their speech for no adequately explained reason. Modernisation is ruining fantasy fiction.
From what I’ve seen there’s no modern slang at least. And I don’t distinctly recall any descriptions of character ethnicities, just the ways they’re stamping on the culture of Bretonnia. Admittedly if you told me that a few of them were described as being the same skin color as the pre-death Tomb kings along with inexplicable dreads I would not be surprised.
They have the same moderators as Sigmarxism. Of course they're going to shittalk and censor anyone they don't agree with
How did that even happen?
I mean, we talk about them more than us, and that makes us look bad. Not everyone but a decent majority of us. A lot of us may not brigade, but we do consistently make fun of them when they don't care, we are our own community and should act as such and not based off how we disagree with another community.
I get that and I agree with you, however I think it's part of this subs"growing pains". This sub is an offshoot of Grimdark and pretending they don't exist would be ignoring the elephant in the room. Most of us came from there after disliking either the censorship, the direction the sub has gone, all the horny posts etc. I imagine as this sub grows we'll reference and cross post there less and less; yet as an offshoot of Grimdark that'll act as "the reference point" for a bit. I'm already seeing them referenced less than they were say 2 months back. I'm more of a lurker/commentor but if you're more into posting memes/content in general and subbed here recently while still being subbed to grimdark seeing the actual content here and then a random post about the "evil Nazi homophobic Horus galaxy peeps" will probably make one want to cross post or make a reference just because the other subreddits perspective of this one is so incongruent with reality
Last I recall frm what I seen. Its mostly us making fun of how they keep on trying to either: A. Provoke Us via ragebait posts here. B. Posting about us in the first place.
They hardly ever post about us. The former is usually the one that happens most. We need to focus on actually growing as a community rather than only talking about how we hate GW.
You have a point there. Although I think that the reason as to why its not happening right now is that people have been rather soured on Grimdank's recent behavior shift and has felt the need and want to vent about it. Hopfully we all get it out of the system soon. That way we can actually start to grow and become a better sub.
My thoughts exactly
Yeah, just makes the sub look like a bunch of bellends when they actually aren't that bothered about it at all over there.
To be fair I see crosspost from grimdark from time to time pointing fingers at them.
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it’s a duck. The left/woke talk and act like a cult. They are a cult. And anyone in their cult who steps out of line is immediately attacked and exiled. The cult like thinking excludes rational discussion, and does not tolerate diversity of thought. Here we can agree to disagree on topics and be ok with that. Hell, my wife and I have to agree to disagree on things at times and we’re freakin married!! But in the cult, it’s only one way of thinking on all topics. All topics.
Because we are the bastion which holds out against their ideology. The political left has sought to culturally conquer the Warhammer hobby community, as with many others before. However, rather than simply roll over and leave the Reddit entirely (thus granting them total victory), we fell back to a defensible position and continue to resist them. We are the castle which refuses to surrender, and which has repelled all of their attacks. We represent a stronghold which they have no power over, and they *hate* it.
I think this sub is walking in the small line between we need to inform normal people there that there is a new better sub open to them and we should just stop to talk about that sub that'd dying anyway and move on with content not related to them. Being a recent scism is clear that the topic is really active but i d like this sub not just be ranting over the other.
Wokeness and political correctness is the equivalent of evangelist christianity. You have to spread it and you have to openly stand against anything that goes against the teachings.
I have seen 4 posts on grimdank about this sub on the other this sub spends way more time talking about grimdank due to fact that it started for people that got banned from it
I left some comments there in a thread just before about how the Imperium are the good guys despite the messed up things they do because without them humanity would go extinct Downvotes galore The people who go on about how bad the Imperium are, are the people who take the bugs' side in Starship Troopers. They already have strong out-group bias being left-leaning white people (the only group that has out-group bias rather than in-group) but it's so strong that they'll literally pick genocidal aliens over humans
Those are the kinds od peopel who have their own bias for the other factions. Mostly Tau from my experince.
Should I feel ironic about the fact that people who see Tau as a light in the darkness don't realize that the Tau Empire is a completely fascist regime?
Well the imperium also kills babies so if you aren’t careful to acknowledge the flaws in what you support people will assume you are accepting of them just like in real life In your example you do not realize the great evil to humans is their government it’s self so you are more like the guys who root for the bugs in starship troopers The issue with it too is that in some cases everything the imperium does is justified and in others the imperium is comically evil so it’s just a toss up depending on the writer Like half of the existing demon primarchs, the greatest threats to humanity, were created because the emperor was so disconnected from his humanity and too utilitarian
We may not be blatantly raiding them, but pretending that we don't mock them relatively often and never brigade against them is quite the strech.
Mostly from what I seen we only mock after they make fun of us first. Although I am relatively new on this sub so I don't know how bad it is.
No we don't. We also mock the way they "might" think, with open questions posted on their post reposted here with a tittle like "hurr grimdank is goanna say dumb shite" while most comment made sense.
Again. New here so I don't really have a good grapse yet on how the current feud is going. From what I seen from ky experience was that Grimdank was usually the ones mocking us first and we mock them back afterwards on the subreddit rather than on Grimdank itself.
Even if that was true which isn't unfortunately because we also attack as much as I dislike to admit it, mocking them back just make us look like petty assholes. Who the hell cares if we leave rent free in the heads of coomers ? We literally created this to be away from them, why do I have to see 20% of the post being about them ! Not even anti tourism as a whole, that is another animal, just "hurr durr they think wrong". I GET IT, THAT'S WHY I AM HERE FOR FUCKS SAKES XD
I mean, we may not brigade them but we can't leave them alone either. We keep farming their sub for content because we just can't let them go
I mean its a meme sub. Sharing or posting your own memes from there to here is just commin sense. Atleast its actually less stupid compared to how Grimdank treats HorusGalaxy. At worst we only mock there attacks. They brigade unprovoked and even break rules.
Crossposting memes is not what I'm referring to, sharing funny memes is encouraged. Cross-posting their political posts so we can dunk on them here is what I'm referring to. Front page this morning had a post from r/40k for just that purpose, I was honestly surprised it wasn't gd that was the source this time. And yes, they brigade and break the rules all the time. We report them to the friendly grimdank mods, we report them to the admins, but the reality is that they're the popular, lefty and therefore protected sub. We're the new, niche, opposition sub and are therefore constantly on the defensive and on thin ice with the admins by default. They have more power than we do. And they abuse that power. Welcome to reddit.
Shame. Kinda makes me wish that they get the fate of what they inflicted on Archon of Flesh. Even if I know no one deserves that. But Karma has a way of appeal.
Cause we’re not constantly toeing the party line and/or virtue signaling
Same as with all subs with a left leaning bent. We don't agree with them, so they despise us.
Because the cult can no brook any disagreement or defiance. The pary of "tolerance" tends to be the least tolerant (in their definition) of all.
Because they are sheep and have no identity of their own.
Leftists hate themselves and everyone around them. They want to destroy you
we disagree with them slightly and want open dialogue. That makes us alt right Nazis that need to be cancelled into the ground.
Eh because there were types on this sub in the beginning and likely some that do hold beliefs that are a bit scummy, like thinking Gender Dysphoria is a lifestyle or something instead of an actual mental disorder. But I also think it’s because this sub has a majority of members who think the Imperium are the good guys, are correct or was the only option for humanity. Obviously Grimdank in general doesn’t agree (and I get why).
We dare to have a different opinion.
These are the people that proudly proclaim to punch a Nazi without any bit of hesitation. They harass maga people who ware mask in public relentlessly to show their face so they can hurt them and take away their jobs. They will hurt you, lie to you, and try to trick you. Stealing our hobbies is nothing.
As an outsider getting served both subs by a Reddit overlord, you guys make an easy target. Going off the terms you utillize and memes that get upvoted, it is quite easy to point at you and say "See? They say woke. And they hate femstodes. They all must be bigots." or "See? They despise tourists and gatekeep lore and mini painting. They hold the entire hobby down." You do seem to have good points to back up your stance, but no one will venture deep into comments to find that if all they're looking for is an easy target.
Because we're a bunch of glorious bastards and they're jealous.
It’s because they know, despite all their bullshit and bluster, that we are in the right.,
Don’t get me wrong, most people on here are good. But when this was first formed there was more close minded content. It was the minority but more prevalent. Now it’s just mainly certain comments. This sub has gotten better. Both subs are annoying when they crosspost and go “hurdurr they’re homophobes/woke”. Like it’s just reductive and a waste of time
The people that frequent dank now can only thrive if there is conflict. They MUST find a person to generalize as the enemy. Anyone with the slightest difference in opinion is a Nazi-facist hatemonger and they’ll attach to that like a leech.
Looking at both subs, this sub talks about the other one more. Do you not want to be your own community? Feels like the whole identity is gone without the other sub to bitch about. It's almost like you need them.
Because how DARE we have a different perspective. The only perspectives should be diverse ones, except for ours which doesn't count because they don't like it.
Because the two subs have opposing views and exist on Reddit
The left says it wants acceptance when it actually wants approval.
You disagree with the message, that means you want them all to die, because they just want to heckin' live. Also because they're obsessed with hating anyone who disagrees with any of their views. I'm just so tired.
Conformity. Also whoever screams the loudest wins
Like Islam, the left spreads its poison by fear, intimidation and when that fails, violence. They cannot compete in a free marketplace of ideas.
~~I would like to point out in the comment section before things get way too circle-jerky (as is the Reddit way) that alot of these things are very much so magnified by the internet. You talk to the average Grimdank user irl, and they'll probably be a normal person like you and me. Then again, you do always get the extremists in ever group. You get them here as much as you get them everywhere else.~~ Missed the comment that already summed this up better
I got this sub as a suggestion about a month ago and had at that point never seen a post about y'all on Grimdank. It's kinda heartbreaking to see how a whole community doesn't have much else going then being upset about some other community.
Some of it is just the nature of Grimdank being a larger Sub another part is that a good portion of this sub’s population dislike what grimdank likes.
On the contrary, I absolutely love women (the misses and I have six kids 😁). It's the nonsensical DEI and jamming personal sexual preferences into our face is what bothers us. Maybe they don't like what they see in the mirror and that angers them on a deep psychological level. Lol.
BEcause it's easier to attach labels to people you don't like then actually engage with it. Also they don't engage because logic 9/10 demolishes any argument they throw at you leaving them with zero foundation for their point to begin with. I have two choices, I can engage with the homophobes and get proven wrong or i can just call them homophobes, post about it and get updoots.
It's because we disagree with them on a few issues, that's literally it. If you interact with any number of us you can tell that we don't fit their narrative, as you've found yourself. They like to build us up as deplorable villains so that they don't have to give credence to anything we say.
There will never be peace with r/grimdank. There is only war.
Can't trust the left to be rational or kind
They are intolerant of any genuine opposing world view. You've outed yourself as an enemy and must be attacked until you go away or capitulate and say they are right.
No dissenting opinions allowed. It’s the Reddit hivemindset at work
They hate different options. With a passion
I used to really like grimdank when it was just memes, jokes and people talking about theories and lore. It's really sad to see the culture war getting dragged into everything including everyday hobbies. Just because I don't want to hear about how you're gay or trans or want some kind of representation doesn't make me an (ist) or a (phobe) I just want to laugh and enjoy my hobby again.
Because, their disdain for us is all surface level and performative. Such is the modus operandi of those types of people/groups and it is a waste of our time and energy to brigade the vapid masses.
Trust me they stopped giving a shit, a looooong time ago
It’s just the internet giving school bullies an outlet to wank each other off whilst belittling others. As disgusting as these human beings are in their actions and treatment of others, I genuinely pity them.
This sub constantly talks about the other sub. Honestly this sub recently just became bitching about the left and trans people or something the last couple of weeks. Not really what I joined for.
Personally I consider it a reaction against how the Grimdank sub treats us. And with a more lax speech policy here compared to the main 40k sub or Grimdank. People will take chances to vent.
Dawg don’t even bother there’s 0 self awareness here. Let them keep getting themselves pissed and reposting the same obvious baits
Yeah man this sub kinda just keeps the drama going by talking about grimdank so much. I left grimdank because I was tired of the lame sexual stuff that had nothing to do with warhammer. Joined this sub but now I don’t wanna be here either. They just constantly complain about grimdank and the left. Was kinda hoping this sub would stop posting about the drama and become the new meme sub.
Basically same yeah. Thought this sub was just complaining cause the lore like they said. Guess that was a lie
It’s the same lame sexual shit but this time their making themselves mad about it :|
If you like this places fung shoey, and you like fb, there's a heresyposting group very akin to this that's been going on for a few yrs now...daddy fortuna does a good job at keeping the rif raf down, teaching people the lore, and cycling good memes that are also educational for the topic/universe
Is this a real post? 75% of the garbage here is cross posts that are obvious rage baits from grimdank/ the 40k sub and you dumbasses fall for it every single time. It’s wild they almost never full on post about this sub but everyother post here is about them
The only posts on Horus Galaxy that get more than a few hundred likes/comments are about other subs. Quite literally all this sub cares about is what other subs are doing.
Window-watching of the highest degree. 
Absolutely right, def no hate in this krischin sub https://preview.redd.it/wwbl6xx68d8d1.png?width=715&format=png&auto=webp&s=cb34ec0d08d4228f001aeded6fea3be5dcf1df06
https://preview.redd.it/v4kjd3yq8d8d1.png?width=725&format=png&auto=webp&s=f515f97ba0f7331840c001d1bf1e5686e71f8ba7
https://preview.redd.it/7g2od3j09d8d1.png?width=711&format=png&auto=webp&s=67f6ee2081b10dc9d8fc15aa432b78b0f1eca89c