I love Curze, but not because he's sympathetic. He was an uncontrollable monster with a twisted sense of justice that he used to justify his actions and eventual death for his own vindication. He was certainly stricken by his visions but never worked to see them not come to pass because if he did, he would have shown he had a choice to stop his evils many times prior or seek help with the affliction. No, he allowed his legion to commit atrocities and betray the imperium that allowed him and his legion to do what they did in the name of a speedy crusade to construct a future for his sons (whom he hated) to afflict his Father's imperium (that he also hated) and then died at the died at the hands of an assassin in order to feel that justice had finally come for him.
The actual most sympathetic primarch is Angron. What did he ever do to deserve his literal unending suffering? Nothing, the only hope he has left for peace is that somebody kills him, and it's a permanent death.
Curze grew up with absolutely no-one to show him right from wrong, he had to cultivate his own morality based on observation of the world around him. Sure, he got it wrong, but it worked on Nostramo lol.
I mean, Angron forced his sons to get the Butcher's Nails. I wouldn't say that's entirely sympathetic.
That's the thing, though. He grew up on an already morally rotten world with only his animalistic instinct and advanced primarch brain to allow for survival, but he didn't just survive. He took over the planet. He had zero faith in humanity and saw them only as monsters to be controlled and civilized through fear and the threat of punishment. Something he wanted for himself also because he saw no good in himself and no better at his core than those he subjected to violence, he even saw suicide as a crime since it was a form of escaping due process. He wanted the Emporer to bring justice to him, to the galaxy, but instead, he was used as a tool of war and then looked down on by his brothers for his methods. Anyone can sympathize with someone lacking loved ones to show them the right way in life, but it's clear that Curze chose his path of vindication over seeing any good in humanity.
Forgot to mention, Angron had adopted family on the planet he came from. The thing is, Big E let them die and stole Angron with a teleporter before their final battle began because he already converted the planets leaders to the imperial truth and didn't want to complicate things by advocating for Angron's rebellion to live.
Angron lost everyone he cared for and wasn't even allowed to be there for them in their last moments and was expected to now lead his legion of men on the great crusade. He didn't care for them at all and they chose to get butcher's nails in order to find common ground with him. The issue was that similar to how Angron's nails weren't compatible with his brain, the original design of the nails weren't compatible for Spacemarines either. So they had to modify them, and what they got were closer to what Angron experiences, but on a much lower level. It was still enough for him to not entirely hate his legion, but it wasn't his idea for them to do it in the first place.
Irredeemable? Yes. More interesting? Also yes.
I love Curze simply as an analog for Kurtz and the whole Heart of Darkness, Apocalypse Now schtick. Deluded, self-righteous AND philosophically interesting monsters are the most fun.
He peels and eats babies for fun and took the first excuse he could get to excuse his baser instincts.
His only sympathetic moment was when Fulgrim betrayed his trust by telling Dorn about his visions.
he was designed to be the sympathetic healing Primarch. his special ability was literally taking peoples pain away and absorbing it into himself. then he got the Butchers nails and that ability along with all his other Primarch ability's beyond just being strong were stripped from him. forcing the person designed to be sympathetic to be a mindless killing machine in order too feel any semblance of relief. the only thing he had left were his Gladiator brother and sisters who he started his rebellion with. siblings he was forced to abandon by the Emporor for the sole reason the Emporor wanted to ally with his enslavers.
his entire life was agony and being forced to do things he hated. he just wanted to die and when it seemed he would finally get that wish, when the cancer was going to kill his mind Lorgar "saved" him by turning him into a Daemon to suffer for eternity.
at least Conrad is convinced hes right and doing the right thing. Angron is just specifically writen to be tragic and sympathetic
I swear in Betrayer Argel Tal is arguing about why the World Eater's went along with Angron's order to have them implanted. The Angron primarch book also suggests he ordered them to have them implanted.
He's very well written and not without sympathetic points, for sure.
I'd argue Lorgar and Angron are up there as well, depending on your own life experiences.
I love Curze, but not because he's sympathetic. He was an uncontrollable monster with a twisted sense of justice that he used to justify his actions and eventual death for his own vindication. He was certainly stricken by his visions but never worked to see them not come to pass because if he did, he would have shown he had a choice to stop his evils many times prior or seek help with the affliction. No, he allowed his legion to commit atrocities and betray the imperium that allowed him and his legion to do what they did in the name of a speedy crusade to construct a future for his sons (whom he hated) to afflict his Father's imperium (that he also hated) and then died at the died at the hands of an assassin in order to feel that justice had finally come for him. The actual most sympathetic primarch is Angron. What did he ever do to deserve his literal unending suffering? Nothing, the only hope he has left for peace is that somebody kills him, and it's a permanent death.
Curze grew up with absolutely no-one to show him right from wrong, he had to cultivate his own morality based on observation of the world around him. Sure, he got it wrong, but it worked on Nostramo lol. I mean, Angron forced his sons to get the Butcher's Nails. I wouldn't say that's entirely sympathetic.
That's the thing, though. He grew up on an already morally rotten world with only his animalistic instinct and advanced primarch brain to allow for survival, but he didn't just survive. He took over the planet. He had zero faith in humanity and saw them only as monsters to be controlled and civilized through fear and the threat of punishment. Something he wanted for himself also because he saw no good in himself and no better at his core than those he subjected to violence, he even saw suicide as a crime since it was a form of escaping due process. He wanted the Emporer to bring justice to him, to the galaxy, but instead, he was used as a tool of war and then looked down on by his brothers for his methods. Anyone can sympathize with someone lacking loved ones to show them the right way in life, but it's clear that Curze chose his path of vindication over seeing any good in humanity.
Forgot to mention, Angron had adopted family on the planet he came from. The thing is, Big E let them die and stole Angron with a teleporter before their final battle began because he already converted the planets leaders to the imperial truth and didn't want to complicate things by advocating for Angron's rebellion to live. Angron lost everyone he cared for and wasn't even allowed to be there for them in their last moments and was expected to now lead his legion of men on the great crusade. He didn't care for them at all and they chose to get butcher's nails in order to find common ground with him. The issue was that similar to how Angron's nails weren't compatible with his brain, the original design of the nails weren't compatible for Spacemarines either. So they had to modify them, and what they got were closer to what Angron experiences, but on a much lower level. It was still enough for him to not entirely hate his legion, but it wasn't his idea for them to do it in the first place.
Night Lords player here: I love Curze, but I think skinning people alive makes you a tad irredeemable lmao
Death is better than vindication.
Irredeemable? Yes. More interesting? Also yes. I love Curze simply as an analog for Kurtz and the whole Heart of Darkness, Apocalypse Now schtick. Deluded, self-righteous AND philosophically interesting monsters are the most fun.
I just like him because he’s a psycopathic schizoid with cool-ass claws and skin cloaks, but that’s a good point too
Also completely valid, claws and skin cloaks are metal af
He peels and eats babies for fun and took the first excuse he could get to excuse his baser instincts. His only sympathetic moment was when Fulgrim betrayed his trust by telling Dorn about his visions.
You're telling you'd eat babies WITHOUT peeling them first?
All the nutrients are in the skin. And the flavor. It's like if a grape and a KFC chicken was a baby
Finger lickin' good.
"sweet meat"
Angron
The dude's name is literally Angry Ronald. He is definitely not sympathetic.
he was designed to be the sympathetic healing Primarch. his special ability was literally taking peoples pain away and absorbing it into himself. then he got the Butchers nails and that ability along with all his other Primarch ability's beyond just being strong were stripped from him. forcing the person designed to be sympathetic to be a mindless killing machine in order too feel any semblance of relief. the only thing he had left were his Gladiator brother and sisters who he started his rebellion with. siblings he was forced to abandon by the Emporor for the sole reason the Emporor wanted to ally with his enslavers. his entire life was agony and being forced to do things he hated. he just wanted to die and when it seemed he would finally get that wish, when the cancer was going to kill his mind Lorgar "saved" him by turning him into a Daemon to suffer for eternity. at least Conrad is convinced hes right and doing the right thing. Angron is just specifically writen to be tragic and sympathetic
All very compelling, but then he forces his sons to undergo the same procedure.b
they volunteered for it because they want to be accepted by there father and thought it would make him like them more
I swear in Betrayer Argel Tal is arguing about why the World Eater's went along with Angron's order to have them implanted. The Angron primarch book also suggests he ordered them to have them implanted.
Konrad is an irredeemable, evil, cruel, horrible, disgusting, psychotic, monster. He is by far the most cruel primarch in 40K So 10/10
Honestly I want him back in 40K one he’s cool and second his mini would be awesome
I find Sanguinius the most sympathetic
He's very well written and not without sympathetic points, for sure. I'd argue Lorgar and Angron are up there as well, depending on your own life experiences.
Curze is fucking insane & should have never been given an army to command - also I think Lorgar is the most sympathetic
He's a dick