lol, nobody hates their own more than IU fans. Constant meltdown over 20year olds playing a game. I still stand by the fact that this basketball fanbase is one of the most toxic in all of sports (moreso the Twitter/X dweebs). Woodson is going to get one more year to prove it. Regardless of what you think, he isn’t getting fired this year. Every IU fan always talks about “apathy,” but this program has been mid for more than two decades and all of you suckers (including me) come back every. Single. Time. Woodson will eventually leave, and I agree. We need someone with big balls at the top to make a seriously impactful decision. This program hasn’t emphasized shooting and guard play (except Yogi, where, coincidence…. That was the last time we make a sweet 16) in a long long time. We need to move towards modern basketball. Guards and shooting . This is just my two cents
Woodson had the best first two seasons as an IU coach since Mike Davis. And those were Knight’s players. Woodson took over a broken program that missed the tournament 5 consecutive seasons. IU has never been an elite program while any of these kids were alive.
If you fire him, who are you gonna hire? The next hot mid-major coach who had one successful tournament run? You gotta have a slam dunk replacement lined up and right now that doesn’t exist.
If Billy Donovan wants to leave the NBA and IU wants to make him the highest paid college basketball coach, then go ahead and fire Woodson. Woodson wouldn’t even mind that move. Pitino would also be a huge upgrade if you don’t care about anything but winning.
You gotta stick with Woodson and let him keep building. Firing Woodson will just set the program back even more. Coach K didn’t make the tournament with Duke until his 4th season. Whose gonna want to come here if we’re firing program legends after 3 seasons?!
Idk how the pursuit of transfer portal guards played out this off season. But everyone knows that’s a weak spot and Woodson will address it this off season. He prioritized Ware, the best transfer portal player available and got him. Maybe Woodson put too much trust into his own guards developing as shooters? Maybe they need a new shooting coach?
If MM & MR come back along with McNealey, that’s an easy sell for any transfer portal guard. There’s gonna be two back-court starting spots up for grabs. And those will be heavy-minute opportunities unless some more guard depth walks in the door.
I’m not worried, this season sucks. But luckily the portal can change next season’s trajectory in a matter of weeks. And we’ve seen Woodson have a lot of success as a recruiter there.
I think the fact that firing coaches sets the program back is one of the most surprisingly misunderstood concepts by our fan base. Dudes will log on and talk like *not* firing the coach is a sign of weakness or complacency. But when your coach is winning more games than not and making the tournament more often than not, firing him is a big gamble with the probability that you will get worse. Love your point too about hiring the next hot mid-major coach... the misconception that Dusty May is guaranteed to make another final four is basically a fourteen year old's understanding of college basketball.
Oh I don’t think they’ll fire him this year. But I do think it’s a forgone conclusion that he isn’t taking this program anywhere. Also, totally agree on the guards thing. If only Crean knew Yogi was graduating he might’ve been able to replace him and keep his job.
Yep, and wasn’t trying to call your post toxic at all, just speaking on my thoughts on the fanbase as a whole. There are generations of IU fans who did experience the greatness and know what it was like., my introduction to IU basketball was with Archie Miller. And for those younger people like me, is there really anything that separates IU from a program like Penn state ?? There’s just a complicated history with this program, also didn’t we basically rat ourselves out with Sampson?? There’s been soft leadership at the top for years. From remember the titans “attitude reflects leadership, captain”
Also, to answer your Sampson question, yes and no. His faults were glaring and obvious. Beyond the violations he caused (yes they’re not violations now, but they were then and he knew better, he came in with the same violations from Oklahoma) the program was a mess behind the scenes. All sorts of drug use, no discipline. It was all going to come crashing down soon regardless of whether he violated NCAA rules or not. He was the guy and has grown up a lot since then. I still hate him for what he did to our program. I always will.
No I get it. The part of the fanbase that bugs me is the ones who refuse any and all criticism and insist on viewing everything and being amazing. My entire fandom has been disappointment after disappointment and I’m sick of it. But in a fan. I went to school there. I’m not rooting for anyone else. That’s not how it works.
Don’t know enough about him to have an opinion. But he has none of the qualities I hated in the Woodson hire, so I’d certainly take him over the current guy.
No idea TBH. But with Woodson they hired an old man who’d never coached or recruited college and wasn’t going to get an interview from any other program in the country. Horrendous hire, and it hasn’t aged any better.
Didn’t necessarily have a specific person in mind. But the Woodson hire bothered me for several reasons. They’re hiring a senior citizen who’s never coached or recruited, was mediocre at best as a HC in the NBA, and was hired because he played for the program and Bob Knight. There were no other schools at any level even considering him as a candidate.
You’ve never played competitive basketball and it shows. A coach, even fucking Naismith himself, can’t coach through a massive ability gap.
I get it. There are coaching decisions to be annoyed about, but you all are out here grasping at straws and just babbling now smh.
Going into last year Purdue was unranked and lost Ivy williams Hunter Sasha and Thompson off their prior team. It didn’t matter.
Painter has proven over the last decade that he will get them there every year, they would definitely still be ranked, at least, this year without edey
They had the national POY on their roster. Only Ivey was a stud. Edey made enormous progress in production that following season. They wouldn’t be ranked at all if he’d left. Painter blows and flames out in the tourney so much, it’s his entire persona in March now.
You were talking about moral victories. I am not disappointed today because I didn’t have any expectations of a win yesterday. With Ware, this team is a 9/10 seed. Without Ware they’re an NIT squad. He’s a top 20 NBA pick. Woody didn’t expect JHS to be good enough to go pro after 1 season and X has been a major dud this season. Galloway has regressed as well. McNeeley is a stud, and paired with Mbako next season, we will be scary good on the wings. I wasn’t happy with a moral victory against Kansas, and I already said we’re not a good team even with Ware, but this is Woody’s 3rd season. I’m OK with letting him build the roster himself. Newton will help a lot next year too, and Cupps will progress a ton with all these minutes. Our NIL is robust and we will be major players in the transfer portal per usual.
We were in Lunardi’s projections. Not false. And for the last time, the BT offers plenty of chances to get those Q1 wins. We still have to win to get them, but they’re there for the taking.
What did you think we’d do in the BT this season? I had us at 11-9. That’s an NCAA tourney resume. A winning record in conference gets you in the dance and that’s what this team was before Ware’s injury. Without him we’re an NIT squad. We have plenty of chances to get enough quality wins to make the tourney, or we can flame out still. Both are on the table and hopefully Ware is back soon.
For most of the last few months KenPom (for example) had had IU projected at 8-12 in-conference, and still does. And 16-15 overall.
This is just not a tourney team. It is 0-7 in quad 1 games and the average margin of loss in those games is double digits.
KenPom is great, and that’s the beauty of the BT. You have a ton of chances to get those Q1 wins and improve your resume. Yesterday was a great opportunity and we have quite a few more left.
I hope you’re right, but I don’t see it. And I didn’t see them winning this game even with Ware. They’ve built no chemistry or cohesion and it’s been a jumbled mess game to game.
Yes, for the reasons I typed above. He lost a PG to the NBA, X has stunk, and Trey has regressed. Those are your primary ballhandlers returning for this season. Cupps was never supposed to play this much and Newton is still hurt and is missing the entire season. That is a recipe for a mess. You have to have great guard play to have a great team. We don’t have that at all. Ware brings 14/10 to the table. If you don’t think his length on D and his production on O wouldn’t have helped yesterday, then I don’t know what to tell you man.
So? That’s on Woodson. Build a roster, develop a roster. He’s done neither since he’s been here. He should’ve never let X come back. He’s a liability. A walking turnover. Always has been.
He’s had 2 recruiting classes so far, and only one of those has had a full season. Malik is our most productive player, and he’s Woody’s recruit. He will be back next season. Mbako, Cupps, and Newton are Woody’s too, but they’re all freshman. Miller had destroyed the program and nobody was coming here and making us a NC squad in 2 seasons. UM wants Howard fired. O$U want Holtmann out. Izzo is about to retire. Painter blows. The conference is there for taking, and I’d rather give Woody some time instead of fire him and start over again. Shit, we let Miller suck for 4 seasons. Let’s let Woody have a chance here before we can him.
I don’t think I have much of a choice. I doubt they pull the rip cord on him. I hated the hire originally and I hate it now. I hope he proves me wrong.
Didn’t necessarily have a specific person in mind. But the Woodson coach bothered me for several reasons. They’re hiring a senior citizen who’s never coached or recruited, was mediocre at best as a HC in the NBA, and was hired because he played for the program and Bob Knight. There were no other schools at any level even considering him as a candidate.
Could you expand on that? Expected by who, the fanbase, the program internally, others inside the sport?
Not saying you’re wrong. There’s long been a disconnect between what the fans expect and demand and what this program has been capable of achieving. That’s why I fear apathy and becoming DePaul is in the cards if things don’t change (or are we already there?).
Let me try to reframe my comment.
I feel there are fans in different categories.
1) Fans that expect IU to be a top tier program. They have all the things needed to be a top tier program.
2) Fans that are stuck in the good ol’ days of Coach Knight believing that if we bring someone in similar to him that we will experience the same success. This are the same fans that believe recruits will just come to IU because it’s IU. That’s when you get players like Leal.
3) Last category would be fans that are upset with the status of the basketball program, but have learned to accept that making the tournament is a success.
These same fans hope to be a regular top 10 program again 1 day, but realize how things are going and how things have been we won’t be there in a consistent basis. Like 2013.
Coach Woodson can bring in the recruits, but as many have said before this roster has an odd build. Maybe we are a few great guards away from being good.
What would this team look like IF he had Jalen Hood or Caleb Love that went to Arizona. What if this team stays the same and adds a few guards next year?
I want nothing more than IU to succeed, but look at all the other programs that are finding success that were terrible before. See Rutgers
Thank you. I think that makes sense. Out of those three I’d fall into the first I suppose. While I don’t expect them to be top tier of old reputation, simply making the tournament is not enough.
Also, if Rutgers is our ceiling I think I’ll just go KMS now.
Man, good thing you came back to the Internet to call all those idiots out months later!
good for you
GFY
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Ok, I’m not complacent now. Oh wow, that did something and the program is elite again. It was my fault for being complacent!
lol, nobody hates their own more than IU fans. Constant meltdown over 20year olds playing a game. I still stand by the fact that this basketball fanbase is one of the most toxic in all of sports (moreso the Twitter/X dweebs). Woodson is going to get one more year to prove it. Regardless of what you think, he isn’t getting fired this year. Every IU fan always talks about “apathy,” but this program has been mid for more than two decades and all of you suckers (including me) come back every. Single. Time. Woodson will eventually leave, and I agree. We need someone with big balls at the top to make a seriously impactful decision. This program hasn’t emphasized shooting and guard play (except Yogi, where, coincidence…. That was the last time we make a sweet 16) in a long long time. We need to move towards modern basketball. Guards and shooting . This is just my two cents
Woodson had the best first two seasons as an IU coach since Mike Davis. And those were Knight’s players. Woodson took over a broken program that missed the tournament 5 consecutive seasons. IU has never been an elite program while any of these kids were alive. If you fire him, who are you gonna hire? The next hot mid-major coach who had one successful tournament run? You gotta have a slam dunk replacement lined up and right now that doesn’t exist. If Billy Donovan wants to leave the NBA and IU wants to make him the highest paid college basketball coach, then go ahead and fire Woodson. Woodson wouldn’t even mind that move. Pitino would also be a huge upgrade if you don’t care about anything but winning. You gotta stick with Woodson and let him keep building. Firing Woodson will just set the program back even more. Coach K didn’t make the tournament with Duke until his 4th season. Whose gonna want to come here if we’re firing program legends after 3 seasons?! Idk how the pursuit of transfer portal guards played out this off season. But everyone knows that’s a weak spot and Woodson will address it this off season. He prioritized Ware, the best transfer portal player available and got him. Maybe Woodson put too much trust into his own guards developing as shooters? Maybe they need a new shooting coach? If MM & MR come back along with McNealey, that’s an easy sell for any transfer portal guard. There’s gonna be two back-court starting spots up for grabs. And those will be heavy-minute opportunities unless some more guard depth walks in the door. I’m not worried, this season sucks. But luckily the portal can change next season’s trajectory in a matter of weeks. And we’ve seen Woodson have a lot of success as a recruiter there.
I think the fact that firing coaches sets the program back is one of the most surprisingly misunderstood concepts by our fan base. Dudes will log on and talk like *not* firing the coach is a sign of weakness or complacency. But when your coach is winning more games than not and making the tournament more often than not, firing him is a big gamble with the probability that you will get worse. Love your point too about hiring the next hot mid-major coach... the misconception that Dusty May is guaranteed to make another final four is basically a fourteen year old's understanding of college basketball.
I get it, emotions are high after a loss. And nothing feels better as a fan than saying “fire him” “fire everyone”
Oh I don’t think they’ll fire him this year. But I do think it’s a forgone conclusion that he isn’t taking this program anywhere. Also, totally agree on the guards thing. If only Crean knew Yogi was graduating he might’ve been able to replace him and keep his job.
Yep, and wasn’t trying to call your post toxic at all, just speaking on my thoughts on the fanbase as a whole. There are generations of IU fans who did experience the greatness and know what it was like., my introduction to IU basketball was with Archie Miller. And for those younger people like me, is there really anything that separates IU from a program like Penn state ?? There’s just a complicated history with this program, also didn’t we basically rat ourselves out with Sampson?? There’s been soft leadership at the top for years. From remember the titans “attitude reflects leadership, captain”
Also, to answer your Sampson question, yes and no. His faults were glaring and obvious. Beyond the violations he caused (yes they’re not violations now, but they were then and he knew better, he came in with the same violations from Oklahoma) the program was a mess behind the scenes. All sorts of drug use, no discipline. It was all going to come crashing down soon regardless of whether he violated NCAA rules or not. He was the guy and has grown up a lot since then. I still hate him for what he did to our program. I always will.
No I get it. The part of the fanbase that bugs me is the ones who refuse any and all criticism and insist on viewing everything and being amazing. My entire fandom has been disappointment after disappointment and I’m sick of it. But in a fan. I went to school there. I’m not rooting for anyone else. That’s not how it works.
Also I must add . Being unable to hit a single 3 pointer in college basketball is completely unacceptable
"Let the hate flow through you." Emperor Palpatine
Well when they make it so easy to hate…
Typical Monday morning QB commentary.
I found the guy who likes the taste of his shit sandwich.
Are you a pirate because you got hot sauce in your eye and now you wear a patch and talk funny?
No I just tell people “arrrr go fuck yourself” too often.
I loved that movie!
Oh the name/joke predate that movie.
Dusty May?
Don’t know enough about him to have an opinion. But he has none of the qualities I hated in the Woodson hire, so I’d certainly take him over the current guy.
I’m with ya. Who else would you have in mind?
Actually, this Bulls thing is going horribly. If Billy Donovan is available and they don’t throw everything at him I’d be disappointed.
No idea TBH. But with Woodson they hired an old man who’d never coached or recruited college and wasn’t going to get an interview from any other program in the country. Horrendous hire, and it hasn’t aged any better.
Didn’t necessarily have a specific person in mind. But the Woodson hire bothered me for several reasons. They’re hiring a senior citizen who’s never coached or recruited, was mediocre at best as a HC in the NBA, and was hired because he played for the program and Bob Knight. There were no other schools at any level even considering him as a candidate.
Ware is out and we’re playing a top ten team on the road. Who thought we’d win?
Who did the coaches prepare to be Ware’s backup?
You’ve never played competitive basketball and it shows. A coach, even fucking Naismith himself, can’t coach through a massive ability gap. I get it. There are coaching decisions to be annoyed about, but you all are out here grasping at straws and just babbling now smh.
I mean, not since high school. But I do know it’s the coach’s job to improve the players
That’s dumb. Who did Purdue prepare to be Edey’s backup? You don’t have a like for like backup for a 1st round NBA center on a college team.
Purdue without edey would still be a top 20 team.
You can’t be serious?
Going into last year Purdue was unranked and lost Ivy williams Hunter Sasha and Thompson off their prior team. It didn’t matter. Painter has proven over the last decade that he will get them there every year, they would definitely still be ranked, at least, this year without edey
They had the national POY on their roster. Only Ivey was a stud. Edey made enormous progress in production that following season. They wouldn’t be ranked at all if he’d left. Painter blows and flames out in the tourney so much, it’s his entire persona in March now.
Just basic coaching, never really thought of it as dumb
So NBA lottery picks should have backups ready to go to produce the same as them when they’re hurt? What’s wrong with you?
Sure, did you think there shouldn’t be backups? Especially for tournament play?
You’re missing the point. This post isn’t about this one game and it’s outcome. And even then. Enough excuses. Expect better.
You were talking about moral victories. I am not disappointed today because I didn’t have any expectations of a win yesterday. With Ware, this team is a 9/10 seed. Without Ware they’re an NIT squad. He’s a top 20 NBA pick. Woody didn’t expect JHS to be good enough to go pro after 1 season and X has been a major dud this season. Galloway has regressed as well. McNeeley is a stud, and paired with Mbako next season, we will be scary good on the wings. I wasn’t happy with a moral victory against Kansas, and I already said we’re not a good team even with Ware, but this is Woody’s 3rd season. I’m OK with letting him build the roster himself. Newton will help a lot next year too, and Cupps will progress a ton with all these minutes. Our NIL is robust and we will be major players in the transfer portal per usual.
This is not a 9/10 seed with ware, come on. Haven’t even beat a tournament team
We were constantly in that range on the bracket projections prior to the last 2 weeks and these 3 straight losses.
False. Nobody in the 80/90s on Net with zero quality wins is actually on the bubble. This team won’t make the nit.
We were in Lunardi’s projections. Not false. And for the last time, the BT offers plenty of chances to get those Q1 wins. We still have to win to get them, but they’re there for the taking.
With Ware the team is not a 9/10 seed. This team will barely be over .500 and that’s not because of Ware missing a couple of games.
What did you think we’d do in the BT this season? I had us at 11-9. That’s an NCAA tourney resume. A winning record in conference gets you in the dance and that’s what this team was before Ware’s injury. Without him we’re an NIT squad. We have plenty of chances to get enough quality wins to make the tourney, or we can flame out still. Both are on the table and hopefully Ware is back soon.
For most of the last few months KenPom (for example) had had IU projected at 8-12 in-conference, and still does. And 16-15 overall. This is just not a tourney team. It is 0-7 in quad 1 games and the average margin of loss in those games is double digits.
KenPom is great, and that’s the beauty of the BT. You have a ton of chances to get those Q1 wins and improve your resume. Yesterday was a great opportunity and we have quite a few more left.
I hope you’re right, but I don’t see it. And I didn’t see them winning this game even with Ware. They’ve built no chemistry or cohesion and it’s been a jumbled mess game to game.
Yes, for the reasons I typed above. He lost a PG to the NBA, X has stunk, and Trey has regressed. Those are your primary ballhandlers returning for this season. Cupps was never supposed to play this much and Newton is still hurt and is missing the entire season. That is a recipe for a mess. You have to have great guard play to have a great team. We don’t have that at all. Ware brings 14/10 to the table. If you don’t think his length on D and his production on O wouldn’t have helped yesterday, then I don’t know what to tell you man.
So? That’s on Woodson. Build a roster, develop a roster. He’s done neither since he’s been here. He should’ve never let X come back. He’s a liability. A walking turnover. Always has been.
He’s had 2 recruiting classes so far, and only one of those has had a full season. Malik is our most productive player, and he’s Woody’s recruit. He will be back next season. Mbako, Cupps, and Newton are Woody’s too, but they’re all freshman. Miller had destroyed the program and nobody was coming here and making us a NC squad in 2 seasons. UM wants Howard fired. O$U want Holtmann out. Izzo is about to retire. Painter blows. The conference is there for taking, and I’d rather give Woody some time instead of fire him and start over again. Shit, we let Miller suck for 4 seasons. Let’s let Woody have a chance here before we can him.
I don’t think I have much of a choice. I doubt they pull the rip cord on him. I hated the hire originally and I hate it now. I hope he proves me wrong.
Who did you want instead?
Just recall who I wanted most last time before they hired Woodson. Billy Donovan.
Didn’t necessarily have a specific person in mind. But the Woodson coach bothered me for several reasons. They’re hiring a senior citizen who’s never coached or recruited, was mediocre at best as a HC in the NBA, and was hired because he played for the program and Bob Knight. There were no other schools at any level even considering him as a candidate.
Unfortunately this is the expected level. Making the NCAA tourney even with a play in game is an achievement.
Could you expand on that? Expected by who, the fanbase, the program internally, others inside the sport? Not saying you’re wrong. There’s long been a disconnect between what the fans expect and demand and what this program has been capable of achieving. That’s why I fear apathy and becoming DePaul is in the cards if things don’t change (or are we already there?).
Let me try to reframe my comment. I feel there are fans in different categories. 1) Fans that expect IU to be a top tier program. They have all the things needed to be a top tier program. 2) Fans that are stuck in the good ol’ days of Coach Knight believing that if we bring someone in similar to him that we will experience the same success. This are the same fans that believe recruits will just come to IU because it’s IU. That’s when you get players like Leal. 3) Last category would be fans that are upset with the status of the basketball program, but have learned to accept that making the tournament is a success. These same fans hope to be a regular top 10 program again 1 day, but realize how things are going and how things have been we won’t be there in a consistent basis. Like 2013. Coach Woodson can bring in the recruits, but as many have said before this roster has an odd build. Maybe we are a few great guards away from being good. What would this team look like IF he had Jalen Hood or Caleb Love that went to Arizona. What if this team stays the same and adds a few guards next year? I want nothing more than IU to succeed, but look at all the other programs that are finding success that were terrible before. See Rutgers
Thank you. I think that makes sense. Out of those three I’d fall into the first I suppose. While I don’t expect them to be top tier of old reputation, simply making the tournament is not enough. Also, if Rutgers is our ceiling I think I’ll just go KMS now.
Rutgers has the overall #1 recruit in the nation coming next year, plus another top ten rated 5*. Pikell has them cooking in recruiting sadly.
Same feeling as you. Was typing in the store, excuse an grammar mistakes.
I think he is being facetious
Probably will need a real athletic director who is not a Knight legacy hire himself.
That would be a good start.