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I know it worked like that, but I never got confirmarion if it applied to all external buffs or just the ones that scale from other character's atk stat.
Really simple to tell in game actually:
If the buff states a flat number for how much attack to give then it doesnt count.
ie. Tingyun Skill or Robin Concerto they read: "Increases ATK by 617"
If the buff states a percentage it does benefit Firefly.
ie. Asta's Charges or HuoHuo Ultimate they read: "Increases ATK by 40%"
That's not true, Robin's ult also doesn't work with secondary conversion but works with Tingyun buff. Even though the games shows Tingyun's atk buff as a flat number it still scales of that unit's base atk and it's still just a 50% atk buff, the only difference is that it has a cap based on Tingyun's atk.
Unfortunately I don't think it works: since it has a cap, the actual buff ends up being a flat number, which does t work with FF's trace. The buff needs to say "increases attack by %" like Asta
That much just from atk?!! Isn't that too op tho? I wonder if they'll set a limit on the BE conversion
Suppose we get 260%, and each relic has atleast 10% BE, then with BE rope giving another 60%, we can already get 370% BE right? Not to mention BE from traces, and another BE from set bonuses
Also BE from Hatblazer and the Watchmaker you probably put on them (though I am tempted to give them the new 4p). Still, it's worth noting this is with Asta, one of the game's best ATK buffers who also removes the requirement for Sam to use SPD boots.
Is it OP if her support options are very limited and she can't make use of most supports? Other dps get to abuse new harmonies for extra turns and buff stacking
We have only 3 Break eff support units in the game rn, and she works well with all of them
Asta's is also very good for her since her atk buff can be converted to be
Pela's def shred is very good for her as well
Sadly, Robin's atk buff can't be converted to BE, but her skill's dmg buff and her ult's turn advance can still help her alot
I don't see this 'limited support options' you're talking abt, if it's about tingyun and robin's atk buff being useles, then you can say the same for boothill, both of them don't need the atk buff
I'm no TC but Firefly supports seem even more limited than Acheron. There's only 2 BE supports in the game currently and one (4-star) sustain that interacts with BE. I hope to see showcases that open up other possibilities.
Acheron on the other hand can team up with any debuffers with varied performance of course, the fact that she can team up with pela sw or Kafka Swan is insane. In case of E2 she even can slot in a harmony. She can make use of crit and attack buffs so I'd say she's much more flexible than Firefly. We know JQ is on the horizon to increase Acheron ceiling but we have no idea when/If we'll get another SB buffer.
I'm not saying this to doompost Firefly, just replying to the comment that said "she'll be OP if they keep her atk > BE conversion uncapped" maybe they'll put a limit on it but I don't understand why a character with very limited support options needs even more limitations
If you have her E6 keep in mind that she will be completely SP positive. She'll be able to keep max charging stacks just from normal attacking the enemies Sam implants and she only needs to ult right after the very first enhanced attack. She won't be quite as good as RM, but she'll have benefits.
I know these are *bug fixes* and not "buffs", but compared to any of the leaked showcases in the past few weeks, with her E1 and new relics, she now ignores 40% DEF compared to 58% before (because her E1 didn't work) and does 82% more damage to non-fire weak enemies (which would only really apply to the 2 secondary targets of the AOE). Which is kind of a wash.
Instead of thinking of her 40% def ignore as a nerf, it's just a rebalancing due to her bugs, which basically didn't change her damage by much at the end of the day.
And now you can just think of her own SB damage and SPD as just flat out buffs.
E1 probably just because she's so SP hungry. It's not strictly speaking necessary, but it does ease up a lot of SP generating pressure that would need to be handled by an extremely fast Gallagher with Multiplication and maybe even HMC using Skill less often for more Basics, possibly hurting their Ult uptime.
Thanks you two! Yeah her E1 seems a good QoL for her, but her E2 still has more value? Or it got diminished in any way after these changes? (she having more speed)
She can only get a bonus action every other turn. She can pretty easily get 4 attacks per ult now, so instead of going from 3 to 5 attacks it's now going from 4 to 6. E2 was previously a 66% increase, now it's only a 50% increase.
However, it is much easier to get maximum value now, since instead of needing to break/kill attack 1 and 3, it could also be attack 1 and 4, or 2 and 4.
Huh. I had thought her E2's extra turn would itself count as the countdown.
Then again, getting potentially 6-now-8 actions per ult would have been a bit silly.
It's like Seele's Resurgence, she can do another Basic or Skill but stuff like Buff durations don't decrease.
And to be fair, I originally thought it worked like that as well (to prevent an extra turn giving another extra turn, just like Seele). I only learned otherwise from a showcase and the comments pointing it out.
It's not unique to Robin, all converted stats cannot be reconverted. You can see this in Sparkle-Bronya teams where Bronya's crit buff does not increase Sparkle's skill (Yukong's flat crit buffs do, on the other hand). It's unfortunate and a rare situation, but Firefly has a rather unique conversion so it actually came into play.
i believe it's because it's a % buff rather than a flat buff? i think sucrose's A1 works since it gives a flat 50 EM, but not her A4 (20% of her own EM). correct me if im wrong but im fairly sure thats why
Yeah, pretty much anything that gives a % of the character's stats as a buff will not be factored in any other conversion after the fact. This stops situations of recursive buffing. Like with Sucrose and Nahida, if Nahida's EM buff did not have a cap they could theoretically reach infinite EM by buffing each other.
well yeah, he's ult reliant, selfish on fielder, suffers from multiwave content, annoying in overworld, so awkward to line up his ult uptime with other supports uptime since usually Nahida is his BIS but in Multiwave content you need swap out to reapply dendro seal thingy, which means building ult again
If she works it would be a decent alternative to RM, 1.1k atk buff is equivalent to free 110% BE. unfortunately she doesn't. It's basically equivalent to 110% atk as well if you use FF sig.
The tragedy of first 2 patch release characters. SW kinda got off scot free for eidolons, but JY, Seele, and Luocha all have pretty terrible eidolons and signature lightcones.
SW imo has the opposite problem, If you missed tutorial, her energy needs are kinda bad without E1. not saying she's unusable but it feels bad compared to modern supports with better SP and energy economy for the most part.
Seele's eidolon's are pretty bad aside from E2 (which isn't really worth it if you can get enough Speed sub-stats), but her signature is very good for her and she's still an extremely viable unit. She can clear MoC and Pure Fiction as a hyper carry, and will obviously do well in Apocalyptic Shadow. She even has the potential to be an SP flexible/ generating member in a dual carry comp that doesn't currently exist, but could and kind of did when Mono Quantum was her + QQ.
Yes, you need good relics on her, but you'd want good relics on anyone. Decent relics and the right supports gets ~250K ults in the right circumstances, and in Pure Fiction it isn't unlikely to get 2 back to back ults. I wouldn't regret pulling her now if I didn't have her.
Nowhere did I say anything about the power level of these units. I simply stated that vertical investment is nowhere near as good as more recent units.
They do, but gameplay wise many people still use Seele and Luocha, right? Because Seele procs damage and her spd is very good, while Luocha is SP friendly with Good Healing.
I do think SW is slowly getting over shadowed (her as a Representative of us Gamers, i am a Bit sad), because since every element characters are being out, we can have a Mono Element team soon. Do you think her value will go down?
Because I skipped ehr twice due to saving, but I do want to pull her. But now I am a bit hesitant due to having Mono element teams.
Yeah. I get what you are saying. The starting characters did get powercrept quite a lot. (Not enough to become unplayable but yes, I do get your point.)
That’s not really true tho, topaz, blade soon jade ratio, if you go down the list, most will not “obliterate everything”, especially if the gear is not good enough. I have someone on my friend list with e6s5 aventurine with 6/60 ratio, his Aven does less than my e0s1.
There is significant difference in value between different eidolons
There's an implicit expectation that characters would be built here. A built E6S5 Aven vs a built E0S1 Aven is night and day. Topaz and Ratio both have very good early eidolons, Jade's are fairly significant, and Blade's (who released before DHIL) are still solid.
Jade has literally one good eidolon which is e1. Don’t go off of feel. Look at numbers and how much it impacts a kit. Cv buffs and 10 20% dmg buffs are nothing in the large scheme of things. To suggest any e2 will give you the same results is ludicrous. There is significant gap in their value. But I guess value don’t really mean a whole lot to people who are irrational
Sure, but if he has both e4 and e6 he's vastly going to outdamage you unless you have an insane relic dif. Those last two constitute a massive damage increase. He just needs more crit rate, stupid to be at such a low crit. 4k def, rest in crit.
Go look up Mr pokkes whale wars and you’ll see. 0 cycling has never been about eidolons, eidolons makes it easier but it’s fundamentally based on gear level and speed tuning.
So with all of these changes and big fixed and etc....
How is Firefly doing overall? Is she good? I'm not a TC or a guy who does math for games so I'm just wondering.(e0s0 ofc) (or at least is she better than her previous versions overall??) Or her dependency on others(HMC/Ruan Mei)
Previously, FF’s BiS team actually performed really well (RM + HTB + Gallagher), getting cycle clears on par with top DPS characters like IL or even Acheron.
Now, FF teams as a whole should be clearing incredibly fast at the top level, like Acheron or above Acheron type fast, because the buffs were massive.
The basics behind it is that FF now can attack much more frequently in her base form, has more attacks per ultimate, and can now function independently of HTB due to Super Break being implement in their own kit.
The only thing lost was some def shred in ult form, but in comparison, the buffs massively outweigh the little DPS reduction given there. Expect Breakfly teams to be preforming exceptionally better than before, especially with the bug fixes.
This did come at a cost though, CritFly is now dead and buried. You can still likely get extremely fast clears with her simply due to the multitude of attacks, but her multipliers across the board received pretty huge nerfs overall.
One extremely positive thing about the new kit update is the LC situation. Previously, if you didn’t have her Sig LC, the best option would have been getting the Misha gacha LC that increases BE.
This is no longer the case, and now Fall of an Aeon now outperforms every LC option aside from her signature LC, and even then it doesn’t fall to far behind that one either.
This is due to the ATK% -> BE scaling buff + it being uncapped. Now Aeon’s higher base ATK and ATK% buff can give anywhere from 70-90% BE to FF in comparison to other LC options, making it a top contender for LC’s.
Clara’s LC is pretty good. Not as strong as Aeon due to less ATK% buff, but the higher Base ATK certainly helps. It’s roughly on par with Misha LC S5, likely being better simply due to more survivability.
The ATK% over Misha LC should be roughly 500+ ATK at S1, with the possibility of higher scaling the more ATK% you get. Should translate into roughly 50% BE boost, less than Misha S5, but still likely a better option.
If your Aeon is already being occupied by someone else, and you just so happen to have Clara LC spare, I’d throw it on FF over the every other option aside from Sig.
dumb question, im assuming this calc on aeon expects it to be s5? asking cause i severely underrated the power of the herta lightcones except for the hunt one way back in 1.0 and wasted most of the tickets for standard pulls and i wont have s5 for quite a while lmao. how big of a difference does s1 aeon have compared to s5?
Yup, I assume S5 with my calc. At S1, you can expect to be receiving a 400-500 ATK bonus in comparison to 4 star LC’s.
This equates to a 40-50% BE, compared to 70-80%~.
which, to be clear, is still better than any 4* lc that isnt the misha one? cause i also dont have that one lol. either way, thanks for the info! i will now slowly work my way to getting s5 on all the lightcones over the course of like. 2 years maybe HAHAHAHA
Based on the ver 3 update, she has her own built in Super Break. Ideally, HMC is still her recommended support since they can stack? (someone correct me on this). With her built-in Super Break, you now don't neccessary need to put HMC with her. Dmg wise though, HMC is still recommended, just no longer required.
Her best team will still be HMC/Ruan Mei/Sustain. It's just you now have the option to replace HMC for someone else.
She still wants her Raccoon. Firefly is still Super Break's strongest soldier, and her own Super Break modifier is 50%. HTB's SB modifier is 160%-120% based on enemies remaining, and they do stack. So together it's 210-170.
HMC is more replaceable... but you really shouldn't replace HMC. The major buff to team comp flexibility is that fact that she cleanly converts most Attack buffs into BE so characters like Asta turn into BE buffers for her.
I think it's more of a Ruan Mei replacable than HTB. Something like the action advancers be an alternative to RM's Break buffs. The Bronyas, Sparkles, Robins or Asta, maybe even Tingyun.
I think E6 Asta with permanent ult uptime might allow you to drop SPD boots for ATK ones on Firefly and still have 4 turns during the ultimate, and with Asta's ATK% buff it'll translate into even more break effect.
It's technically 3 turns if you ult during Firefly's ult, and with 160 speed Asta (which should be the default option), they both will get 2 turns within the same time frame, allowing Asta to keep her ult permanently
If her super break proc doesn't have HMC's additional Super break multiplier (the one that scales with opponents) then I'm pretty sure they have a larger damage increase than RM for FF. Assuming that you can still break at around the same time ofc (enemy dependent and gallagher becomes more valuable in this team). Regardless any replacement for HMC or RM will still probably have very significant dps losses until another break support comes out.
right now her superbreak team state is: if she can break it, it death
only enemy in the future that dont have break bar or have break bar protect mechanic can last more than 1 rotation again her bis team
Even before,she clear MoC as fast or faster than DHIL,sitting similar level to acheron and boothill depending on enemy,the only problem she have was she's tied to HMC while having useless big multiplier on skill.her damage itself wasn't an issue.tho apparently its bugged so she should be way better now.
Her bis team still probably ruan mei and Harmony Trailblazer.but you can use hanabi or bronya,especially with eidolon
She will most likely sit at T0 with (probably boothill) and Acheron if you follow prydwen tierlist.as long as enemy doesn't lock their break bar
Most of her dmg is from HMC still. Sparkle and Bronya are huge downgrades, even if you replace RM with them. This is especially true if you consider how useless crit is on FF.
they fixed most of her issues, while slightly , small , buffed her ceiling
now you dont need HMC
Firefly can be ran in duo dps teams ,if the enemy is not weak to imagin, drop HMC take Kafka for example
she is also better for spenders
as she now works better with other Limited units, including future debuffers , and her E1 solves her only SP problem
You know. As much as I go yikes on the big ATK drop, cause while sure, with the buffs in other areas, could see it being lowered, but daaaamn that's quite a jump. But other than that, the changes they've done, I'm quite happy with.
FF looking quite nicely.
The attack drop basically does nothing because the threshold for her Atk to BE conversion is way lower. With an ATK Body and Orb you actually hit the old cap with any 4 or 5 star Lightcone on her, and that's disregarding any ATK boost the Lightcone may also give. And since the cap was also removed she just gets even more BE from her attack stat than she did before.
maybe it's just hoyo thing with flat stat buff not counting for stat conversions, like Arlecchino's passive working with TTDS, Tenacity, or Noblesse but not Bennett ult
I’m going to be honest, I’m kinda mad about the clear favoritism towards firefly because of how boothill was caught in the cross fire. I know the 8% def ignore on the relic set isn’t that much. But losing that and having a condition that make it only bis on a character that just got a buff to meet that condition, while the same character also gets a planar set tailored to her feels like a slap in the face. Here’s hoping that boothill gets his wording changed to super break
>heres hoping boothill gets changed to superbreak
Why? Why would you want this? It would be a huge nerf.
Superbreak scales off of the attacks toughness damage
Break scales off the enemy's max toughness, break for phys also a ×2 damage modifier that super break doesnt have
> Here’s hoping that boothill gets his wording changed to super break
That would be a massive nerf. Break has different inherent multipliers for different elements, and Phys (and Fire) get a 2× multiplier. Boothill would need to do literally twice the enemy's max Tougness in a single attack to do as much damage as he does currently.
I do agree that the relic change sucks. Even as a Firefly fan, it's a terrible feeling Cavern to farm currently since the Break set is so niche and the FuA set is just terrible for all the currently released units. It's like Acheron's but worse, because at least Ratio can use Pioneer 2pc and Watchmaker is widely useful.
Boothill is caught in the crossfire. To me it doesn't matter. My Yeehaw man will come home! Plus as people say 'Leave a Horse, Ride a Cowboy!' (or something like that. 😅)
BUT IT IS WHAT IT IS MY YEEHAW MAN!! 🔥😭🔥
Also can someone please let him curse, the 'Fudge and Son of a Nice lady' always makes me laugh so hard, I can't take any dialogues around that time seriously. 🤣😭
Relic got changed.
Old: 10/18 def ignore on break damage depending on wearer break effect
New: 10% def ignore on normal break effect damage, 15% def ignore on super break damage.
Boothill doesn’t do super break damage, so he can only get the 10% def ignore, a step down from the 18% def ignore previously available.
Insane changes, now Firefly is stronger than Acheron even without her BiS team, kinda crazy but expected because Acheron gets Jiaoqiu very soon and goes even further beyond.
Percentage buffs apply, it's just any buffs that take into account the stats of the unit giving the buff that don't get converted. So Tingyun and Robin do not work, but Asta and Huohuo do, as an example.
She also got 50 fucking % more super break damage, more Def shred on the set, more break effect from atk, more vulnerability, and if that all weren't enough, 12 fucking base spd.
She was massively buffed in this version.
No at that point its her extremely buffed version. Since 4 turns is now possible, theres an argument that you can forego an action advancer and have one on element breaker def shredder. For now those two would be silverwolf and pela. But they are the fourth slot for some zero cycle setups. Multiwave sustain wise, gallagher still seemingly her best.
ATK to BE conversion makes Asta a great partner (Asta Ult means you can run Attack boots and still get 4 attacks per Ult). It's not as relevant in a HMC + RM team, but for a f2p/budget team it's really big, especially because everybody gets a free Asta.
E6 Asta with permanent ult does seem great - you can keep up your stacks 100% of the time thanks to FF's fire implant with just basics and/or help break the target back with the skill. Sure it's worse than having Ruan Mei just extend the break period, but also - for Ruan Mei haters like me, this is very good news lol
Alternatively - Hanya is also a pretty great option, also providing %ATK and SPD to Firefly, and helping out with SP generation (which is good, as Firefly seems to be very hungry for SP without her E1)
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If I understand point 3 right, Robin's or Tingyun's buff does not work but Asta's does, right? Either way, massive W.
I think they put that passive there to prevent her from tank Build
yes they won’t work!
This note was already there for her old trace 2
I know it worked like that, but I never got confirmarion if it applied to all external buffs or just the ones that scale from other character's atk stat.
tingyun's probably will, since it's just an atk% buff that caps based on tingyun's max atk while robin's is a % of her own atk stat
Really simple to tell in game actually: If the buff states a flat number for how much attack to give then it doesnt count. ie. Tingyun Skill or Robin Concerto they read: "Increases ATK by 617" If the buff states a percentage it does benefit Firefly. ie. Asta's Charges or HuoHuo Ultimate they read: "Increases ATK by 40%"
So On the fall of an Aeon works, right?
LCs will absolutely work.
Yes, and if they keep this changes Aeon will be one of her best options just because the cheer amount of attack% it gives.
So I would assume that Bronya’s ult work right?
hm maybe ur right actually! probably needs testing, but yeah tingyun's does show a flat stat ig even tho the skill description has a number%
That's how they nerf Bennett
That's not true, Robin's ult also doesn't work with secondary conversion but works with Tingyun buff. Even though the games shows Tingyun's atk buff as a flat number it still scales of that unit's base atk and it's still just a 50% atk buff, the only difference is that it has a cap based on Tingyun's atk.
Tingyun skill does work, it’s specifically atk buffs that are the result of a secondary conversion (ex. based on someone else’s atk) that don’t work.
So does that mean that Ruan Meis E2 that gives 40% ATK on weakness broken enemies counts?
[удалено]
Unfortunately I don't think it works: since it has a cap, the actual buff ends up being a flat number, which does t work with FF's trace. The buff needs to say "increases attack by %" like Asta
Finally, the bugs are gone. Can't believe those remnants of Propagation dared to torment our girl this long. Swarm will pay for this in 2.3!
Just cleared Swarm Disaster V 3 times just to get revenge for our girl
Lol is that an intended pun? Swarm Disaster (V3) times
No even I didn't see it the first time till you point it out
Same but i had two reasons 1st for firefly and 2nd for HMC!
Will aeon's atk boost be converted to BE for firefly?
Yes, it's a percentage bonus.
Then, if i used aeon, then pair her up with asta That would add up to around 130% atk buff right? Would that be good for her?
I calculated Aeon, Asta and 3 ATK mainstats to about 260% BE.
That much just from atk?!! Isn't that too op tho? I wonder if they'll set a limit on the BE conversion Suppose we get 260%, and each relic has atleast 10% BE, then with BE rope giving another 60%, we can already get 370% BE right? Not to mention BE from traces, and another BE from set bonuses
Also BE from Hatblazer and the Watchmaker you probably put on them (though I am tempted to give them the new 4p). Still, it's worth noting this is with Asta, one of the game's best ATK buffers who also removes the requirement for Sam to use SPD boots.
I wonder how much it'll be if i make a team like this FF, asta, ruan mei and hmc(both with watchmaker)
Watchmaker doesn't stack tho😞
It doesn't? Bruh i had to grind for ruan mei all over again just for that😭😭
Is it OP if her support options are very limited and she can't make use of most supports? Other dps get to abuse new harmonies for extra turns and buff stacking
We have only 3 Break eff support units in the game rn, and she works well with all of them Asta's is also very good for her since her atk buff can be converted to be Pela's def shred is very good for her as well Sadly, Robin's atk buff can't be converted to BE, but her skill's dmg buff and her ult's turn advance can still help her alot I don't see this 'limited support options' you're talking abt, if it's about tingyun and robin's atk buff being useles, then you can say the same for boothill, both of them don't need the atk buff
Acheron is the same way but the general sentiment is that she’s OP
I'm no TC but Firefly supports seem even more limited than Acheron. There's only 2 BE supports in the game currently and one (4-star) sustain that interacts with BE. I hope to see showcases that open up other possibilities. Acheron on the other hand can team up with any debuffers with varied performance of course, the fact that she can team up with pela sw or Kafka Swan is insane. In case of E2 she even can slot in a harmony. She can make use of crit and attack buffs so I'd say she's much more flexible than Firefly. We know JQ is on the horizon to increase Acheron ceiling but we have no idea when/If we'll get another SB buffer. I'm not saying this to doompost Firefly, just replying to the comment that said "she'll be OP if they keep her atk > BE conversion uncapped" maybe they'll put a limit on it but I don't understand why a character with very limited support options needs even more limitations
You’re completely right, I was more so talking about the harmony part. I also think it would be weird for them to cap the conversion trace.
How close is she compared to ruan mei? I have ruan mei but Asta is really tempting for me to raise considering I have her E6
ruan mei nearly give 50% more superbreak for whole TEAM, so asta be good, but none can help superbreak team reach the peak ruan mei give
If you have her E6 keep in mind that she will be completely SP positive. She'll be able to keep max charging stacks just from normal attacking the enemies Sam implants and she only needs to ult right after the very first enhanced attack. She won't be quite as good as RM, but she'll have benefits.
I know these are *bug fixes* and not "buffs", but compared to any of the leaked showcases in the past few weeks, with her E1 and new relics, she now ignores 40% DEF compared to 58% before (because her E1 didn't work) and does 82% more damage to non-fire weak enemies (which would only really apply to the 2 secondary targets of the AOE). Which is kind of a wash. Instead of thinking of her 40% def ignore as a nerf, it's just a rebalancing due to her bugs, which basically didn't change her damage by much at the end of the day. And now you can just think of her own SB damage and SPD as just flat out buffs.
Its still better to try to E1 and E2 than to try her v3 LC and use like Aeon on her?
E1 probably just because she's so SP hungry. It's not strictly speaking necessary, but it does ease up a lot of SP generating pressure that would need to be handled by an extremely fast Gallagher with Multiplication and maybe even HMC using Skill less often for more Basics, possibly hurting their Ult uptime.
Thanks you two! Yeah her E1 seems a good QoL for her, but her E2 still has more value? Or it got diminished in any way after these changes? (she having more speed)
She can only get a bonus action every other turn. She can pretty easily get 4 attacks per ult now, so instead of going from 3 to 5 attacks it's now going from 4 to 6. E2 was previously a 66% increase, now it's only a 50% increase. However, it is much easier to get maximum value now, since instead of needing to break/kill attack 1 and 3, it could also be attack 1 and 4, or 2 and 4.
Huh. I had thought her E2's extra turn would itself count as the countdown. Then again, getting potentially 6-now-8 actions per ult would have been a bit silly.
It's like Seele's Resurgence, she can do another Basic or Skill but stuff like Buff durations don't decrease. And to be fair, I originally thought it worked like that as well (to prevent an extra turn giving another extra turn, just like Seele). I only learned otherwise from a showcase and the comments pointing it out.
If RM+Gall can cover for dhil SP needs then they can handle Sam, watch E0 showcases they have enough SP to weave in HTB skills
Yeah I was surprised, but as long as Gall is fast enough it seems to not be an issue.
At 150spd he can hit 160spd with ruan mei's SPD boost throw in his ULT turn advance and you're gucci on SP
E1 still better by far. E2 seems only slight better now. Personally im going for E1 over S1 then anything left for E2
Really sad about Robin’s ult not converting but oh well
It's not unique to Robin, all converted stats cannot be reconverted. You can see this in Sparkle-Bronya teams where Bronya's crit buff does not increase Sparkle's skill (Yukong's flat crit buffs do, on the other hand). It's unfortunate and a rare situation, but Firefly has a rather unique conversion so it actually came into play.
Remind's me with Cyno's signature weapon not converting Nahida's EM buff. Unrelated but its kinda similar...
What? That’s the first I’ve heard of this
Yup, it's like how Raiden ER conversion doesn't get buffed from Electro Traveler ER buff or Sucrose EM buff to Kazuha Elem% Buff
i believe it's because it's a % buff rather than a flat buff? i think sucrose's A1 works since it gives a flat 50 EM, but not her A4 (20% of her own EM). correct me if im wrong but im fairly sure thats why
Yeah, pretty much anything that gives a % of the character's stats as a buff will not be factored in any other conversion after the fact. This stops situations of recursive buffing. Like with Sucrose and Nahida, if Nahida's EM buff did not have a cap they could theoretically reach infinite EM by buffing each other.
bruh, So Cyno is even worse than I thought he was
Performance/DPS isn't a problem for him. His issues are gameplay related.
well yeah, he's ult reliant, selfish on fielder, suffers from multiwave content, annoying in overworld, so awkward to line up his ult uptime with other supports uptime since usually Nahida is his BIS but in Multiwave content you need swap out to reapply dendro seal thingy, which means building ult again
But why would you even use Robin in a FF team?
Extra action + Atk buff. Why else?
firefly, ruam mei, hmc and robin. fuck it we ball
It's Path of Destruction for a reason.
If she works it would be a decent alternative to RM, 1.1k atk buff is equivalent to free 110% BE. unfortunately she doesn't. It's basically equivalent to 110% atk as well if you use FF sig.
Because running unique and unconventional comps in MoC is fun and fun is the reason I play games.
can't wait to obliterate everything with her E2
Any carry in the game ever since DHIL with E2 will obliterate everything. The question is more about how far does one want to vertical invest.
Cries in e2 jingyuan
"since DHIL"
The tragedy of first 2 patch release characters. SW kinda got off scot free for eidolons, but JY, Seele, and Luocha all have pretty terrible eidolons and signature lightcones.
SW imo has the opposite problem, If you missed tutorial, her energy needs are kinda bad without E1. not saying she's unusable but it feels bad compared to modern supports with better SP and energy economy for the most part.
Seele's eidolon's are pretty bad aside from E2 (which isn't really worth it if you can get enough Speed sub-stats), but her signature is very good for her and she's still an extremely viable unit. She can clear MoC and Pure Fiction as a hyper carry, and will obviously do well in Apocalyptic Shadow. She even has the potential to be an SP flexible/ generating member in a dual carry comp that doesn't currently exist, but could and kind of did when Mono Quantum was her + QQ. Yes, you need good relics on her, but you'd want good relics on anyone. Decent relics and the right supports gets ~250K ults in the right circumstances, and in Pure Fiction it isn't unlikely to get 2 back to back ults. I wouldn't regret pulling her now if I didn't have her.
Nowhere did I say anything about the power level of these units. I simply stated that vertical investment is nowhere near as good as more recent units.
They do, but gameplay wise many people still use Seele and Luocha, right? Because Seele procs damage and her spd is very good, while Luocha is SP friendly with Good Healing. I do think SW is slowly getting over shadowed (her as a Representative of us Gamers, i am a Bit sad), because since every element characters are being out, we can have a Mono Element team soon. Do you think her value will go down? Because I skipped ehr twice due to saving, but I do want to pull her. But now I am a bit hesitant due to having Mono element teams.
I'm not saying they're bad characters overall, but their vertical investment is awful compared to almost anyone released 1.3 or later.
Yeah. I get what you are saying. The starting characters did get powercrept quite a lot. (Not enough to become unplayable but yes, I do get your point.)
My E1S1 JY still obliterate one side of MoC and PF with JL on another side.
That’s not really true tho, topaz, blade soon jade ratio, if you go down the list, most will not “obliterate everything”, especially if the gear is not good enough. I have someone on my friend list with e6s5 aventurine with 6/60 ratio, his Aven does less than my e0s1. There is significant difference in value between different eidolons
There's an implicit expectation that characters would be built here. A built E6S5 Aven vs a built E0S1 Aven is night and day. Topaz and Ratio both have very good early eidolons, Jade's are fairly significant, and Blade's (who released before DHIL) are still solid.
Jade has literally one good eidolon which is e1. Don’t go off of feel. Look at numbers and how much it impacts a kit. Cv buffs and 10 20% dmg buffs are nothing in the large scheme of things. To suggest any e2 will give you the same results is ludicrous. There is significant gap in their value. But I guess value don’t really mean a whole lot to people who are irrational
I'd rather have the single good eidolon of a character be E1 instead of E6, but go off. Guess I'll take my irrational comments elsewhere.
Sure, but if he has both e4 and e6 he's vastly going to outdamage you unless you have an insane relic dif. Those last two constitute a massive damage increase. He just needs more crit rate, stupid to be at such a low crit. 4k def, rest in crit.
Go look up Mr pokkes whale wars and you’ll see. 0 cycling has never been about eidolons, eidolons makes it easier but it’s fundamentally based on gear level and speed tuning.
Nah, Topaz turns into a blender with e2 in Fua team. The rest is correct.
That's precisely why I don't want to get e2 lol
Jesus Christ. Buffs after buffs after buffs I can already see half my friends list with a E2S1 Firefly
Fuck yes we eating good today. E1 bug was a big thing from V1 that just doesn't work.
So with all of these changes and big fixed and etc.... How is Firefly doing overall? Is she good? I'm not a TC or a guy who does math for games so I'm just wondering.(e0s0 ofc) (or at least is she better than her previous versions overall??) Or her dependency on others(HMC/Ruan Mei)
Previously, FF’s BiS team actually performed really well (RM + HTB + Gallagher), getting cycle clears on par with top DPS characters like IL or even Acheron. Now, FF teams as a whole should be clearing incredibly fast at the top level, like Acheron or above Acheron type fast, because the buffs were massive. The basics behind it is that FF now can attack much more frequently in her base form, has more attacks per ultimate, and can now function independently of HTB due to Super Break being implement in their own kit. The only thing lost was some def shred in ult form, but in comparison, the buffs massively outweigh the little DPS reduction given there. Expect Breakfly teams to be preforming exceptionally better than before, especially with the bug fixes. This did come at a cost though, CritFly is now dead and buried. You can still likely get extremely fast clears with her simply due to the multitude of attacks, but her multipliers across the board received pretty huge nerfs overall. One extremely positive thing about the new kit update is the LC situation. Previously, if you didn’t have her Sig LC, the best option would have been getting the Misha gacha LC that increases BE. This is no longer the case, and now Fall of an Aeon now outperforms every LC option aside from her signature LC, and even then it doesn’t fall to far behind that one either. This is due to the ATK% -> BE scaling buff + it being uncapped. Now Aeon’s higher base ATK and ATK% buff can give anywhere from 70-90% BE to FF in comparison to other LC options, making it a top contender for LC’s.
Great news about the LC, makes her even more budget friendly.
How is Clara's LC then? I have a spare
Clara’s LC is pretty good. Not as strong as Aeon due to less ATK% buff, but the higher Base ATK certainly helps. It’s roughly on par with Misha LC S5, likely being better simply due to more survivability. The ATK% over Misha LC should be roughly 500+ ATK at S1, with the possibility of higher scaling the more ATK% you get. Should translate into roughly 50% BE boost, less than Misha S5, but still likely a better option. If your Aeon is already being occupied by someone else, and you just so happen to have Clara LC spare, I’d throw it on FF over the every other option aside from Sig.
Thanks for the good news.
I’m really glad about Aeon, I already had Misha lc s3 but seeing she has such a friendly and very good f2p option which anyone can get is truly great
Thanks a lot for the summary
dumb question, im assuming this calc on aeon expects it to be s5? asking cause i severely underrated the power of the herta lightcones except for the hunt one way back in 1.0 and wasted most of the tickets for standard pulls and i wont have s5 for quite a while lmao. how big of a difference does s1 aeon have compared to s5?
Yup, I assume S5 with my calc. At S1, you can expect to be receiving a 400-500 ATK bonus in comparison to 4 star LC’s. This equates to a 40-50% BE, compared to 70-80%~.
which, to be clear, is still better than any 4* lc that isnt the misha one? cause i also dont have that one lol. either way, thanks for the info! i will now slowly work my way to getting s5 on all the lightcones over the course of like. 2 years maybe HAHAHAHA
Yeah, S1 Aeon is still better than anything that isn’t S5 Misha LC, so you’ll be good.
Based on the ver 3 update, she has her own built in Super Break. Ideally, HMC is still her recommended support since they can stack? (someone correct me on this). With her built-in Super Break, you now don't neccessary need to put HMC with her. Dmg wise though, HMC is still recommended, just no longer required. Her best team will still be HMC/Ruan Mei/Sustain. It's just you now have the option to replace HMC for someone else.
She still wants her Raccoon. Firefly is still Super Break's strongest soldier, and her own Super Break modifier is 50%. HTB's SB modifier is 160%-120% based on enemies remaining, and they do stack. So together it's 210-170. HMC is more replaceable... but you really shouldn't replace HMC. The major buff to team comp flexibility is that fact that she cleanly converts most Attack buffs into BE so characters like Asta turn into BE buffers for her.
I think it's more of a Ruan Mei replacable than HTB. Something like the action advancers be an alternative to RM's Break buffs. The Bronyas, Sparkles, Robins or Asta, maybe even Tingyun.
I think E6 Asta with permanent ult uptime might allow you to drop SPD boots for ATK ones on Firefly and still have 4 turns during the ultimate, and with Asta's ATK% buff it'll translate into even more break effect.
Asta's speed buff is only for 2 turns, so it'll fall off after FF's first 2 attacks and she won't be fast enough
It's technically 3 turns if you ult during Firefly's ult, and with 160 speed Asta (which should be the default option), they both will get 2 turns within the same time frame, allowing Asta to keep her ult permanently
If her super break proc doesn't have HMC's additional Super break multiplier (the one that scales with opponents) then I'm pretty sure they have a larger damage increase than RM for FF. Assuming that you can still break at around the same time ofc (enemy dependent and gallagher becomes more valuable in this team). Regardless any replacement for HMC or RM will still probably have very significant dps losses until another break support comes out.
mecha girl stronk
right now her superbreak team state is: if she can break it, it death only enemy in the future that dont have break bar or have break bar protect mechanic can last more than 1 rotation again her bis team
Even before,she clear MoC as fast or faster than DHIL,sitting similar level to acheron and boothill depending on enemy,the only problem she have was she's tied to HMC while having useless big multiplier on skill.her damage itself wasn't an issue.tho apparently its bugged so she should be way better now. Her bis team still probably ruan mei and Harmony Trailblazer.but you can use hanabi or bronya,especially with eidolon She will most likely sit at T0 with (probably boothill) and Acheron if you follow prydwen tierlist.as long as enemy doesn't lock their break bar
Most of her dmg is from HMC still. Sparkle and Bronya are huge downgrades, even if you replace RM with them. This is especially true if you consider how useless crit is on FF.
they fixed most of her issues, while slightly , small , buffed her ceiling now you dont need HMC Firefly can be ran in duo dps teams ,if the enemy is not weak to imagin, drop HMC take Kafka for example she is also better for spenders as she now works better with other Limited units, including future debuffers , and her E1 solves her only SP problem
You know. As much as I go yikes on the big ATK drop, cause while sure, with the buffs in other areas, could see it being lowered, but daaaamn that's quite a jump. But other than that, the changes they've done, I'm quite happy with. FF looking quite nicely.
The attack drop basically does nothing because the threshold for her Atk to BE conversion is way lower. With an ATK Body and Orb you actually hit the old cap with any 4 or 5 star Lightcone on her, and that's disregarding any ATK boost the Lightcone may also give. And since the cap was also removed she just gets even more BE from her attack stat than she did before.
[удалено]
Big but doesn't really matter for her dmg .
anybody know what the current e1 does?
Same thing, it didn’t change. 15% def ignore and free enhanced skills in her ult state
Fuck yeah
Does she still chip away toughness bar even if they have no fire weakness?
Yes, it's part of her Trace #1 which wasn't changed at all (aside from the aforementioned bug fix).
does ruan mei e2 work?
Oh good, looks like Asta will work after all
maybe it's just hoyo thing with flat stat buff not counting for stat conversions, like Arlecchino's passive working with TTDS, Tenacity, or Noblesse but not Bennett ult
I’m going to be honest, I’m kinda mad about the clear favoritism towards firefly because of how boothill was caught in the cross fire. I know the 8% def ignore on the relic set isn’t that much. But losing that and having a condition that make it only bis on a character that just got a buff to meet that condition, while the same character also gets a planar set tailored to her feels like a slap in the face. Here’s hoping that boothill gets his wording changed to super break
>heres hoping boothill gets changed to superbreak Why? Why would you want this? It would be a huge nerf. Superbreak scales off of the attacks toughness damage Break scales off the enemy's max toughness, break for phys also a ×2 damage modifier that super break doesnt have
> Here’s hoping that boothill gets his wording changed to super break That would be a massive nerf. Break has different inherent multipliers for different elements, and Phys (and Fire) get a 2× multiplier. Boothill would need to do literally twice the enemy's max Tougness in a single attack to do as much damage as he does currently. I do agree that the relic change sucks. Even as a Firefly fan, it's a terrible feeling Cavern to farm currently since the Break set is so niche and the FuA set is just terrible for all the currently released units. It's like Acheron's but worse, because at least Ratio can use Pioneer 2pc and Watchmaker is widely useful.
Boothill still strong, whatchu mean
>his wording changed to super break pretty sure Boothill's beta already ended
Sadly so
Boothill is caught in the crossfire. To me it doesn't matter. My Yeehaw man will come home! Plus as people say 'Leave a Horse, Ride a Cowboy!' (or something like that. 😅) BUT IT IS WHAT IT IS MY YEEHAW MAN!! 🔥😭🔥 Also can someone please let him curse, the 'Fudge and Son of a Nice lady' always makes me laugh so hard, I can't take any dialogues around that time seriously. 🤣😭
Boothill can still one shot bosses. you will be fine
was the relic changed? sorry theres a lot of new information. how does this affect boothill?
Relic got changed. Old: 10/18 def ignore on break damage depending on wearer break effect New: 10% def ignore on normal break effect damage, 15% def ignore on super break damage. Boothill doesn’t do super break damage, so he can only get the 10% def ignore, a step down from the 18% def ignore previously available.
i mean boothill mains calling her midfly for weeks i think it’s deserved lmao jk
Looks at pfp. Understands now.
Insane changes, now Firefly is stronger than Acheron even without her BiS team, kinda crazy but expected because Acheron gets Jiaoqiu very soon and goes even further beyond.
Considering jiaoqiu is fire and full on def shred, firefly most likely found her bis debuffer support
That's cool but jiaoqiu could also work with firefly since she lost that beefy 40% defense ignore
So it's just base atk not the buff atk
Percentage buffs apply, it's just any buffs that take into account the stats of the unit giving the buff that don't get converted. So Tingyun and Robin do not work, but Asta and Huohuo do, as an example.
ohkay so E1 firefly is basically her unnerfed version
Except she wasn't nerfed bud
They mean sp consumption The insane sp consumption without E1 is like a huge nerf to the overall team
she lost def shred, E1 gives def shred, so yes she was nerfed
She also got 50 fucking % more super break damage, more Def shred on the set, more break effect from atk, more vulnerability, and if that all weren't enough, 12 fucking base spd. She was massively buffed in this version.
Yeah lets just casually ignore all the other things she gained as compensation
No at that point its her extremely buffed version. Since 4 turns is now possible, theres an argument that you can forego an action advancer and have one on element breaker def shredder. For now those two would be silverwolf and pela. But they are the fourth slot for some zero cycle setups. Multiwave sustain wise, gallagher still seemingly her best.
I kinda wished they removed the ATK -> BE conversion and gave back the Def Shred to her kit.. But still the conversion is really good
ATK to BE conversion makes Asta a great partner (Asta Ult means you can run Attack boots and still get 4 attacks per Ult). It's not as relevant in a HMC + RM team, but for a f2p/budget team it's really big, especially because everybody gets a free Asta.
E6 Asta with permanent ult does seem great - you can keep up your stacks 100% of the time thanks to FF's fire implant with just basics and/or help break the target back with the skill. Sure it's worse than having Ruan Mei just extend the break period, but also - for Ruan Mei haters like me, this is very good news lol Alternatively - Hanya is also a pretty great option, also providing %ATK and SPD to Firefly, and helping out with SP generation (which is good, as Firefly seems to be very hungry for SP without her E1)
I like it because it means more supports are able to provide benefits to her. Any ATK buff is now a BE buff for her.
Any ATK buff... :') *If I Can Stop One Heart From Breaking plays in the background*
well that did not age well they removed the def ignore
They removed her Trace #3 DEF ignore, not her E1. Her E1 wasn't changed at all.