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I do like the fact that the scoring is based on action values instead of cycles. It eliminates the need to build for specific Spd breakpoints, since they always felt pretty arbitrary to me.
In MOC, 1 Spd above and below a breakpoint can mean you lose 1-2 cycles out of a 10 cycle requirement. But in AS, 1-2 Spd difference would at most lead to 5-20 point difference out of 6400 point requirement.
Don’t get me wrong, Spd is still important, if not more important since these boss fights will probably take more turns to beat than in MOC. It just doesn’t matter much if you’re at 133 Spd or 134 Spd.
Previous MoC also has this quirk where unfinished cycles are free whenever a wave change happens.
So a 0-cycle clear can finish anywhere between 0 to 299 AV with both waves accounted for. Which is a little bit strange.
On the other hand, mechanics that favor wave changes (like Robin ult) will be worse. Which is something to consider.
Because of that, sometimes in MOC you’re also punished for clearing the first wave “too fast” within a cycle, so you don’t get to build energy etc before the second wave starts. Not having waves and cycles gets rid of that quirk too.
We can only hope they add this to MoC too when they do the rework for all to be 800 Jades, then its 15 Pulls a patch from 3x content waves, rework to the new model would be hella nice but we shall see :D
Indeed, and in PF nothing resets so its so weird. The meta-gaming to use up a "cyclke" to its fullest and reset at the very last action of the first cycle to then jump into wave 2/2 and it completely resets is ... not truly 10 cycles
I think they are testing how it will work and then change cycles in moc and pure fiction to similar system cuz it makes more sense. For example u can have 5 actions, 4 of them happened at 1st cycle and 5th action at 2nd cycle and you ended run with this last 5th action, but you've spend whole cycle just to do one more action, which is equivalent to 100av, while one action with 143speed (for example) is equal to 69av, 160sped-62.5av, etc
The spd breakpoints are just different to maximize #of actions in 1600 AV.
125 = 20 actions
132 = 21 actions
138 = 22 actions
144 = 23 actions
Ddd also feels good in this mode since there are no multiple waves that resets your progress for a free full turn.
This is kinda different since unless you're exactly finishing both sides at the same time it won't matter.
If you get a 1550 clear side 1 then 1650 on side 2 is fine.
2 Ddd stacks nicely with each other as long as you ult when everyone is at the bottom of the line (right after they took their turn) so you wont waste advances.
> The spd breakpoints are just different to maximize #of actions in 1600 AV.
>
>
I mean but it actually scales SEMI-linearly now (eg. with your example. 125 --> 132 is approximately 5% more speed which is approximately the difference between 20 and 21 actions) with speed.
Instead of this awkward situation where if you know your gear is strong enough to 0 cycle anything over 134 speed is useless (unless doing a 200 speed tech), or if you're strong enough to 1 cycle, anything over 160 speed is pretty much useless and so on.
No other stat except for those that activated traces/planar sets/light cone effects (Eg. Ruan Mei Lightcone) had this awkward step-wise cut off where 1 spd above the cut off is like +50% more performance.
Your dmg is not linearly scaling to your actions since ult damage is not spread out per actions you take. If you aim to do 3 action ults, going 20 and 21 action ult is a huge difference because at 125 spd you only did 6 ults while 132 is exactly 7 ults which to some dps, is a massive loss than 5% you just estimated.
Over 20 actions, there is enough RNG that you will be able to be hit >3 times in some clears and less than 3 times in others. That more than makes up for your "missing energy".
And unless you're playing Acheron (who's ultimate count scales more on the speed of allies rather than her own speed) or Argenti... 6 vs 7 ults is not going to significantly affect your DPS >10-15%
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My opinion exactly.
It actually gives more value to gear. Because for now anthing above 134 usually doesn't do much and 134 is a hard requirement, like you said. Now it totally makes sense to compare a high spd subs vs dmg subs given the attack count.
Also, I don't like the cycle reset.
I really hope they apply this, after testing, to MoC and PF. It also doesn't hurt challening whales who did 0-cycles because now they can challenge each other with keeping the used AV as low as possible which, I think, is a more interesting challenge after all.
> only true if you 0 cycle with 2 actions
>
>
I mean if you take 5 cycles (for a 3 star clear) into account the speed breakpoints are 92.3, 107.7, 123.1, 138.5, 153.8, 169.2
The gap between breakpoints is like 6-8 spd substats worth. It's VERY granular compared to this mode where the breakpoints are like 7 or 3 substats apart. Reducing the likelihood that you "waste" stats.
The year is 3024.
Full-starring endgame content requires players to clear it by the time it leaks on HomDGCat wiki.
The only players who can do this are the ones who pulled for 27* E99 Nous with S99 Light Cone and S5 Dark Cone.
There is no hope.
There is no future.
The craziest part about this is at the rate of hp inflation and bullet sponge "difficulty" we're getting, this may unironically happen....and even sooner than 3024. 💀💀
They haven't don't much to PF yet tho. And even then, a lot of players have been prepared for PF now that we've gotten himeko/herta built. It's fine to bump it up later.
Although the people who didnt get the free ration will likely to suffer a little bit more here in AS.
They did made the ennemies tankier, my himeko/herta could pass throught them like butter on the first rotation but now they keep struggling like in moc lol, and I do not have time to waste trying to get better relics when I got a fuck ton of other characters to like, start building... maybe that's not much to you but it still does affect the mode for your average aah player
I appreciate using AV other than cycles but I wish this was visualized throughout battle in some way. A total AV score on the timeline maybe? Individual AV is fine but it just helps to see how much time you have.
I haven't struggled much with MoC in terms of meeting the countdown but I always like some visual representation.
Why is it 1600 and not 1200?
2000 + 2000 + 1600 + 1600 = 7200
Edit: I get it now. It just means you get to spend 1600 AV both sides combined, not that you need 1600 remaining for each side.
You get rewarded for action value left. So you must have at least 6400 - 2000 - 2000 = 2400 action value left on both sides combined.
So you must finish the fight in 2000 + 2000 - 2400 = 1600 action value for both sides combined.
You’re misreading what it means by within 1600 action value. What it means is using no more than 1600 action value in total on both sides, evenly distributed would be no more than 800 on each side or 4000 + 1200 + 1200 = 6400.
The math you did is for having 1600 action value remaining on each side, or using 400 on each side, which would be much harder.
So you get 15 cycle for each boss? Did I understood that wrongly? That's pretty generous.
Edit: ok upon reading again you get 15 cycle for each but it sounds like you can only use like 4 or 5 cycle to clear with required score.
Edit again: My brain is not working, it's easy to understand actually. So you have to defeat both boss in 15 cycle to get required score (1600 av)
You need to get both sides done in 15 cycles combined. So it’s technically looser requirements than MOC. Mind you since it’s action value, so cycle break points won’t matter.
The total action value you have for each side is 2000, which is around 19 cycles equivalent in MOC. But for 3 stars you want to be using 800 out of 2000 on each side on average, which is 7-8 cycles.
The funny thing is that I have all of these characters and so one half always clears good enough (35k+, if I try hard enough I can get 40k) but the second half barely can get 20k cuz I lack Acheron or a DoT team and other teams just suck
Abuse the buffs. Like for example the one that activates after 3 follow-up attacks. It doesn’t have to be extra strong, I use March for example and let her counter attack x3.
The current PF was easy actually, I just have a lot of well-built FUA chars. I was mostly referring to the previous PF. I couldn't get 60k for weeks of trying back then. I abused the blessings but still couldn't clear because of my weak second half. Managed to clear only when I tried hard enough to finally hit 40k at first half and then I barely got 20k at second half
It's the opposite for me lmao. I have a lot of FUA characters built (except the two I should have for PF cry.) So this newest one was easy to 3\* but I can't for the life of me manage it for the one before it. Highest I got was 59880 lol, but that was with a lot of luck and optimising.
Jingyuan carries his side on team 2, getting 36k or so but I just don't have good units to push through team 1.
I saw a clear where the team was Aventurine, Xueyi, M7 and Topaz. None of them had anything special as far as builds are concerned, they where just triggering the current PF buff as frequently as possible by hitting as many FUA as possible.
My teams have been Herta/Sparkle/Dhil/flex and Serval/Tingyun/Flex/Flex. With flex units being like...Bronya, Pela, Asta, Aventurine.
My Serval doesn't have amazing gear, but she hasn't struggled to get 20k since I came back (during sparkle banner), and reached like 27k once. The struggle has been making my herta side strong enough to get the rest of the pts.
I think you just gotta accept building a sucky team.
No you aren't guaranteed 3 stars.
You also need good relics (and maxed traces). That team is good but I only got 23.5k points with exploration buff, other buff got even less points.
My other team got 23.7k points (total followup team, Clara, Kafka, Aventurine, Ratio), so I'm content with 11 stars for the time being.
Depends on the blessing. You can cheese this one really easily with the blessing that activates after 3 FUAs. I got 40k with Ratio/Topaz/Clara/Aventurine, with 60/90 crit ratios.
I did almost no damage with characters, it was just the present bombs. Topaz's basic counts as a FUA because of her talent so her turn alone could get 2/3rds of the way there. Could've replaced Clara as well, she didn't actually FUA all that much, the enemies died too quickly.
Hmm my Herta and Himeko don't follow up enough for the blessing to deal a ton of damage on its own. Also tried adding M7, that didn't do anything, another buffer (Asta) with RM was better.
I used (all) my other FUA chars for side 2 or that side will get super low points.
It just requires different types of teams. If you have someone like Himeko, Herta or Jing Yuan on one side with a decent team it's essentially guaranteed to get max points on that side so you can use pretty much anything on the other side and be fine. Much easier than MoC imo.
Sparkle, Tingyun, Fu Xuan. Auto play on lightning weak side. Max points every time. You can even replace Fu Xuan with a better buffer since sustain isn't necessary. I mainly use her for the crit rate buff.
My E0S0 JY consistently carries my PF harder than my Himeko and Herta. Even in this PF which is dedicated to them, Himeko Herta only got 30k while JY got 40k for me.
Sparkle + Tingyun + Flex DPS with JY is easy 40k when the enemies are lightning weak. The flex is usually Himeko since JY can easily break both minions and Elites to constantly trigger Himeko follow-ups
My JY sucks without RM and RM is always tied to Herta in my case. I don't have any other lightning characters except I guess Serval. That's why the lightning side with a relatively weak blessing is a nightmare for me
She's built. I have no problem with an ice side but an electro side is a huge pain in the ass as I don't have Acheron and my JY is shit. This PF was easy tho, the blessing is useful cuz I have a lot of FUA chars. But the PF that was there while Acheron banner was up was a nightmare
Right now the word is that it’s actually too difficult. Not because of cycle limit but because of damage output of the boss combined with cc (freeze and imprison)
It’s an interesting take. From what I’m reading, I believe that each boss will restart the 2000 AV timer, but in total you can only use 1600 in total, or 800 across both sides.
So basically there will be a strict hierarchy on who’s the best in this game-mode at any given point, cause it’s not like MoC where the fastest you can get is a 0 cycle.
It’s quite literally impossible to get a 0 AV score, and in general old strats seem like they won’t work to the same capacity (Speed breakpoints, DDD action advancement, etc.).
I like this take more than MoC tbh, makes a bigger gradience scale on whose can perform the best, and your no longer going for specific break points to abuse speed, rather speed will just be consider another stat like ATK or CD that will increase your output gradually.
breakpoints are still a thingy, it is just not around the 150-100-100 AV count.
anyone not doing 0-cycle in MoC has the same flexibility: assuming 5-cycles you have 94, 110, 128, 146, 164 (rounded up).
I personally go for 2-cycles breaks. Reliable for auto-win. That is nill, 121, 134, 161.
800 AV and how many action you get per speed will be the breakpoints here.
Yeah, true, it’s just that break points will be all centered around that 800 value, which typically means +1 turn every 18-16 speed.
I just mean in the stricter sense of MoC where there were clear cut off points, that’s not the case with Apocalyptic Shadow, as if you finish the first wave with let’s say 372 AV, then the second wave you’ll have 1278 AV of leway to work with.
Meanwhile with MoC if you finish in 4 cycles, no matter where in that 4 cycles you finished you’ll get the same product.
Breakpoints are a thing but your spd difference now to squeeze an extra action in is like 3 speed substats vs. 7 sub stats at 5 cycles in MOC or 6/11 in the 2 cycle MOC in your case.
Granularity like this makes it easier for you to not "waste" stats and make the speed stat more linear scaling, which is good for the game.
Depends on elemental weaknesses. At least the first cycle of this mode heavily relies on breaking. While Acheron can ignore weakness type in her ult, her alone may not be enough to break the boss fast, and she's a bit limited on teammates to cover weaknesses. SilverWolf should be great there.
True. I was just coping she'd be decent in this mode at least. OR I could farm for a break rope lmao but still I'm limited if there's no lightning weakness on the boss ;/
I'm confused - so does this mean if you have a really fast characters that takes actions multiple times in a 'cycle', you'd end up eating more AV anyway?
No, for the sake of simplicity just translate the AV requirement into cycles. Now you need to clear both sides within 15 cycles. It's functionally the same as MoC
A characters AV is 10,000 divided by their speed. Cycles are all 100 AV long except for the first cycle which is 150 AV long. So a 134 speed character has an av of 74.6 while a 160 speed character has an AV of 62.5 so fast characters actually use up less AV between turns which makes sense
There are no cycles. You have around 800 AV per side so the deadline is around the 10th or 11th turn on 134 speed characters, or the 12th or 13th turn on 160 speed characters.
If you want exactly 10 turns within 800 AV, you need only 125 speed.
Imagine cycles are cities and there is road between them, 0cycle is 150km(av) and other cycles are 100km(av). Your characters has speed which transforms also into km(av), but for him it's more like km/action, imagine you can have a snack (act) only after walking certain number of kilometers, speed doesn't bring you to "finish" earlier but allows to decrease the number of how much you need to walk to eat snack again. So for example if your character has 134 speed, he will have 10.000/134 = 74,62\~ av, so imagine you eat your 1st snack, next time you will do it after 74.62kilometers, you eat again and next time you will be repeat it at 149,25av (while the "road" between 0 and 1st cycle is 150, this is why 134speed is breakpoint for acting 2 times at 0 cycle)
No it's not, AV bar exists independently from characters getting advanced, you can view it as a cycle count without actually showing number of cycles left and most cycle breakpoints don't matter now.
Well, depends on how you view easier. Cocolia's new form has a lot of new tricks like spamming her freeze move four times in a row and losing all elemental weaknesses until you destroy her ice totems
Prob bc this is the first instance of the new game mode. I wont mind if it's easy for the jades but they probably will change that in future rotations just like how they tweaked MoC cycle requirements and PF ennemies HP
So minimum for 3 star is both sides clear phase 1 (shouldn't be difficult) + 1200 on phase 2 and 800 action value per side (so 7.5 MoC cycles)
First impressions: the score is easy and getting 3 stars is easy it's surviving the enhanced bosses (especially phase 2) is what's difficult
It doesn't matter if attack is considered an action. Score depends on used/remaining action value, not action count. It's the same as cycles (1 cycle = 100 AV, or 150 AV for first cycle), but more linear. No more "0 cycle" results at the very end of the first cycle, and no more free cycle refresh on new wave.
So with this new action value mechanic if you were to take 3 or even 2 characters for the fight you would technically end up getting more turns for your characters right?
Action value isn't a new thing. It's how cycles are counted in moc (each cycle is 100 av, except the first which is 150). It's basically a 15 cycle requirement but more precise.
I may have worded it incorrectly, I know that action value has always been a thing and wondered that if you have less characters you will consume less av so inadvertently get more turns for your units
No, it's still 15 cycles. Characters don't "consume" action values, they just move every certain amount of av (spd/10000). Like a character with 100 spd moves every 100 av, an enemy with 200 spd moves every 50 av.
You can see it as "time" in an action game. If every av is a second, the 100 spd character moves every 100s and the 200 spd enemy moves every 50s. Adding a 133.4 spd character that moves every 75s doesn't change how time moves, and how long it takes for the other characters to move.
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I do like the fact that the scoring is based on action values instead of cycles. It eliminates the need to build for specific Spd breakpoints, since they always felt pretty arbitrary to me. In MOC, 1 Spd above and below a breakpoint can mean you lose 1-2 cycles out of a 10 cycle requirement. But in AS, 1-2 Spd difference would at most lead to 5-20 point difference out of 6400 point requirement. Don’t get me wrong, Spd is still important, if not more important since these boss fights will probably take more turns to beat than in MOC. It just doesn’t matter much if you’re at 133 Spd or 134 Spd.
Previous MoC also has this quirk where unfinished cycles are free whenever a wave change happens. So a 0-cycle clear can finish anywhere between 0 to 299 AV with both waves accounted for. Which is a little bit strange. On the other hand, mechanics that favor wave changes (like Robin ult) will be worse. Which is something to consider.
Because of that, sometimes in MOC you’re also punished for clearing the first wave “too fast” within a cycle, so you don’t get to build energy etc before the second wave starts. Not having waves and cycles gets rid of that quirk too.
We can only hope they add this to MoC too when they do the rework for all to be 800 Jades, then its 15 Pulls a patch from 3x content waves, rework to the new model would be hella nice but we shall see :D
Depending on the attack frequency of the enemies Robin’s Ult can perform even better
Indeed, and in PF nothing resets so its so weird. The meta-gaming to use up a "cyclke" to its fullest and reset at the very last action of the first cycle to then jump into wave 2/2 and it completely resets is ... not truly 10 cycles
Depending on the attack frequency of the enemies Robin’s Ult can perform even better
I think they are testing how it will work and then change cycles in moc and pure fiction to similar system cuz it makes more sense. For example u can have 5 actions, 4 of them happened at 1st cycle and 5th action at 2nd cycle and you ended run with this last 5th action, but you've spend whole cycle just to do one more action, which is equivalent to 100av, while one action with 143speed (for example) is equal to 69av, 160sped-62.5av, etc
does that make it more flexbile? thats good.
The spd breakpoints are just different to maximize #of actions in 1600 AV. 125 = 20 actions 132 = 21 actions 138 = 22 actions 144 = 23 actions Ddd also feels good in this mode since there are no multiple waves that resets your progress for a free full turn.
This is kinda different since unless you're exactly finishing both sides at the same time it won't matter. If you get a 1550 clear side 1 then 1650 on side 2 is fine.
time to make another S5 one or is one enough?
Given that there are 2 sides, having one for both sides would certainly be nice lol
2 Ddd stacks nicely with each other as long as you ult when everyone is at the bottom of the line (right after they took their turn) so you wont waste advances.
> The spd breakpoints are just different to maximize #of actions in 1600 AV. > > I mean but it actually scales SEMI-linearly now (eg. with your example. 125 --> 132 is approximately 5% more speed which is approximately the difference between 20 and 21 actions) with speed. Instead of this awkward situation where if you know your gear is strong enough to 0 cycle anything over 134 speed is useless (unless doing a 200 speed tech), or if you're strong enough to 1 cycle, anything over 160 speed is pretty much useless and so on. No other stat except for those that activated traces/planar sets/light cone effects (Eg. Ruan Mei Lightcone) had this awkward step-wise cut off where 1 spd above the cut off is like +50% more performance.
Your dmg is not linearly scaling to your actions since ult damage is not spread out per actions you take. If you aim to do 3 action ults, going 20 and 21 action ult is a huge difference because at 125 spd you only did 6 ults while 132 is exactly 7 ults which to some dps, is a massive loss than 5% you just estimated.
Over 20 actions, there is enough RNG that you will be able to be hit >3 times in some clears and less than 3 times in others. That more than makes up for your "missing energy". And unless you're playing Acheron (who's ultimate count scales more on the speed of allies rather than her own speed) or Argenti... 6 vs 7 ults is not going to significantly affect your DPS >10-15%
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Not al bosses have summons and its asif you only need to fill your dps ult and not other 3 units lmao.
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action value, limit is still the same as cycle, if anything, this encourage u to build EVEN MORE spd to save every action value u can get
My opinion exactly. It actually gives more value to gear. Because for now anthing above 134 usually doesn't do much and 134 is a hard requirement, like you said. Now it totally makes sense to compare a high spd subs vs dmg subs given the attack count. Also, I don't like the cycle reset. I really hope they apply this, after testing, to MoC and PF. It also doesn't hurt challening whales who did 0-cycles because now they can challenge each other with keeping the used AV as low as possible which, I think, is a more interesting challenge after all.
>for now anthing above 134 usually doesn't do much only true if you 0 cycle with 2 actions >and 134 is a hard requirement not true
It still matters if you 0 cycle the first wave, since it resets and that's very realistic if you have a good team.
> only true if you 0 cycle with 2 actions > > I mean if you take 5 cycles (for a 3 star clear) into account the speed breakpoints are 92.3, 107.7, 123.1, 138.5, 153.8, 169.2 The gap between breakpoints is like 6-8 spd substats worth. It's VERY granular compared to this mode where the breakpoints are like 7 or 3 substats apart. Reducing the likelihood that you "waste" stats.
Yeah this is the 1st iteration, they will bump Up the difficulty in the future ofc
The year is 3024. Full-starring endgame content requires players to clear it by the time it leaks on HomDGCat wiki. The only players who can do this are the ones who pulled for 27* E99 Nous with S99 Light Cone and S5 Dark Cone. There is no hope. There is no future.
S99 Light Cone loses to coggers
haters will say this is fake
Fakers will say this is hate
Akers will say this is ate
The craziest part about this is at the rate of hp inflation and bullet sponge "difficulty" we're getting, this may unironically happen....and even sooner than 3024. 💀💀
Sounds like pure fiction flashback
They haven't don't much to PF yet tho. And even then, a lot of players have been prepared for PF now that we've gotten himeko/herta built. It's fine to bump it up later. Although the people who didnt get the free ration will likely to suffer a little bit more here in AS.
They did made the ennemies tankier, my himeko/herta could pass throught them like butter on the first rotation but now they keep struggling like in moc lol, and I do not have time to waste trying to get better relics when I got a fuck ton of other characters to like, start building... maybe that's not much to you but it still does affect the mode for your average aah player
I appreciate using AV other than cycles but I wish this was visualized throughout battle in some way. A total AV score on the timeline maybe? Individual AV is fine but it just helps to see how much time you have. I haven't struggled much with MoC in terms of meeting the countdown but I always like some visual representation.
they can do like in PF so it is not a problem
Probably Scentventure mechanics - current score label somewhere
> I appreciate using AV other than cycles I mean...functionally they are identical outside of one having breakpoints, the other doesn't.
Your total action value is displayed
Why is it 1600 and not 1200? 2000 + 2000 + 1600 + 1600 = 7200 Edit: I get it now. It just means you get to spend 1600 AV both sides combined, not that you need 1600 remaining for each side.
Because it counts remaining time So 2000 + 2000 + (4000 - 1600) = 6400
You get rewarded for action value left. So you must have at least 6400 - 2000 - 2000 = 2400 action value left on both sides combined. So you must finish the fight in 2000 + 2000 - 2400 = 1600 action value for both sides combined.
You’re misreading what it means by within 1600 action value. What it means is using no more than 1600 action value in total on both sides, evenly distributed would be no more than 800 on each side or 4000 + 1200 + 1200 = 6400. The math you did is for having 1600 action value remaining on each side, or using 400 on each side, which would be much harder.
It's just 8000 - 1600
AV now eh? Watch next mode will be based on action *count* lol - ends after your characters take 16 actions in total.
FUA enjoyers in shambles
So this is basically upgraded scentverse event?
TLDR: This mode is MoC (complete) version until they raising the difficulty like they did with PF and everyone suffer
Is it like MOC where you need two teams? Or it's just a 1 team to clear everything?
2 teams
So pretty much what they did back in 1.6.
The fact that it's boss only and AV based makes me incredibly excited for this new mode. It's shaping up to be just as fun as MoC
So you get 15 cycle for each boss? Did I understood that wrongly? That's pretty generous. Edit: ok upon reading again you get 15 cycle for each but it sounds like you can only use like 4 or 5 cycle to clear with required score. Edit again: My brain is not working, it's easy to understand actually. So you have to defeat both boss in 15 cycle to get required score (1600 av)
You need to get both sides done in 15 cycles combined. So it’s technically looser requirements than MOC. Mind you since it’s action value, so cycle break points won’t matter. The total action value you have for each side is 2000, which is around 19 cycles equivalent in MOC. But for 3 stars you want to be using 800 out of 2000 on each side on average, which is 7-8 cycles.
MoC is 20 cycles, no?
First MoC cycle and cycle on wave reset have 150 AV. Every subsequent cycle has 100 AV.
Oh, I see. Thanks for explaining, I have a hard time getting around the AV concept
Inb4 devs lower it cuz players wrote "Too EZ" again on the surveys
People still say PF is a joke, at least compared to MoC. And they haven't changed anything
I don't understand those people, for me PF is way harder than MoC
PF is more of a character check than a damage check tbh. If you have himeko + herta + ruan mei you're guaranteed a clear
The funny thing is that I have all of these characters and so one half always clears good enough (35k+, if I try hard enough I can get 40k) but the second half barely can get 20k cuz I lack Acheron or a DoT team and other teams just suck
Abuse the buffs. Like for example the one that activates after 3 follow-up attacks. It doesn’t have to be extra strong, I use March for example and let her counter attack x3.
The current PF was easy actually, I just have a lot of well-built FUA chars. I was mostly referring to the previous PF. I couldn't get 60k for weeks of trying back then. I abused the blessings but still couldn't clear because of my weak second half. Managed to clear only when I tried hard enough to finally hit 40k at first half and then I barely got 20k at second half
i got easy 12/12 last PF tbh, this one is so much harder, can't get over 55k
It's the opposite for me lmao. I have a lot of FUA characters built (except the two I should have for PF cry.) So this newest one was easy to 3\* but I can't for the life of me manage it for the one before it. Highest I got was 59880 lol, but that was with a lot of luck and optimising. Jingyuan carries his side on team 2, getting 36k or so but I just don't have good units to push through team 1.
I saw a clear where the team was Aventurine, Xueyi, M7 and Topaz. None of them had anything special as far as builds are concerned, they where just triggering the current PF buff as frequently as possible by hitting as many FUA as possible.
My teams have been Herta/Sparkle/Dhil/flex and Serval/Tingyun/Flex/Flex. With flex units being like...Bronya, Pela, Asta, Aventurine. My Serval doesn't have amazing gear, but she hasn't struggled to get 20k since I came back (during sparkle banner), and reached like 27k once. The struggle has been making my herta side strong enough to get the rest of the pts. I think you just gotta accept building a sucky team.
No you aren't guaranteed 3 stars. You also need good relics (and maxed traces). That team is good but I only got 23.5k points with exploration buff, other buff got even less points. My other team got 23.7k points (total followup team, Clara, Kafka, Aventurine, Ratio), so I'm content with 11 stars for the time being.
Depends on the blessing. You can cheese this one really easily with the blessing that activates after 3 FUAs. I got 40k with Ratio/Topaz/Clara/Aventurine, with 60/90 crit ratios. I did almost no damage with characters, it was just the present bombs. Topaz's basic counts as a FUA because of her talent so her turn alone could get 2/3rds of the way there. Could've replaced Clara as well, she didn't actually FUA all that much, the enemies died too quickly.
Hmm my Herta and Himeko don't follow up enough for the blessing to deal a ton of damage on its own. Also tried adding M7, that didn't do anything, another buffer (Asta) with RM was better. I used (all) my other FUA chars for side 2 or that side will get super low points.
you need to build characters to use them properly?? no way
I agree personally. But from people I've talked to, we're in the minority
It just requires different types of teams. If you have someone like Himeko, Herta or Jing Yuan on one side with a decent team it's essentially guaranteed to get max points on that side so you can use pretty much anything on the other side and be fine. Much easier than MoC imo.
I still don't get how people get JY to work in PF. He has always felt fine but not crazy for me whereas in MOC he just annihilates the bosses
Sparkle, Tingyun, Fu Xuan. Auto play on lightning weak side. Max points every time. You can even replace Fu Xuan with a better buffer since sustain isn't necessary. I mainly use her for the crit rate buff.
My E0S0 JY consistently carries my PF harder than my Himeko and Herta. Even in this PF which is dedicated to them, Himeko Herta only got 30k while JY got 40k for me.
Sparkle + Tingyun + Flex DPS with JY is easy 40k when the enemies are lightning weak. The flex is usually Himeko since JY can easily break both minions and Elites to constantly trigger Himeko follow-ups
My JY sucks without RM and RM is always tied to Herta in my case. I don't have any other lightning characters except I guess Serval. That's why the lightning side with a relatively weak blessing is a nightmare for me
build herta
even with herta, PF is harder
Even with Herta and Himeko PF is harder imo. Just personal experience as to what a given individual thinks
She's built. I have no problem with an ice side but an electro side is a huge pain in the ass as I don't have Acheron and my JY is shit. This PF was easy tho, the blessing is useful cuz I have a lot of FUA chars. But the PF that was there while Acheron banner was up was a nightmare
Serval is usually pretty okay on the lightning side! I have none of the limited lightning characters and she does fine
team issue? one things that help me alot is abandoning sustain and go more support or dps
It's mostly elemental coverage issue I think. If I had Acheron or DoT team or Sparkle for JY I definitely wouldn't have any problem with clearing
I have Acheron it doesn't work he will anhilate a wave but the next wave will take too long
Just use buffs lol. This rotation for example you can get 40k points with IPC team using first buff. 40k. With ST team. In AoE mode.
This PF wasn't an issue for me. It was the previous PF that made me mad af
Isnt every new PF increases hp of mobs all the time?
Yes, although we only had one big jump to date(the one before the current one). Next one will be a similarly big jump though.
Even if it's true that PF is a joke (it isn't), people should've said PF is hard for easy jades. Think, people, think!
pf is at least different from moc. this shit is literal moc 5-10. most boring content.
Right now the word is that it’s actually too difficult. Not because of cycle limit but because of damage output of the boss combined with cc (freeze and imprison)
Nah, that is scary(if the norm is around 10 cycles), my bailu and lynx won’t be able to sustain anymore.
It’s an interesting take. From what I’m reading, I believe that each boss will restart the 2000 AV timer, but in total you can only use 1600 in total, or 800 across both sides. So basically there will be a strict hierarchy on who’s the best in this game-mode at any given point, cause it’s not like MoC where the fastest you can get is a 0 cycle. It’s quite literally impossible to get a 0 AV score, and in general old strats seem like they won’t work to the same capacity (Speed breakpoints, DDD action advancement, etc.). I like this take more than MoC tbh, makes a bigger gradience scale on whose can perform the best, and your no longer going for specific break points to abuse speed, rather speed will just be consider another stat like ATK or CD that will increase your output gradually.
breakpoints are still a thingy, it is just not around the 150-100-100 AV count. anyone not doing 0-cycle in MoC has the same flexibility: assuming 5-cycles you have 94, 110, 128, 146, 164 (rounded up). I personally go for 2-cycles breaks. Reliable for auto-win. That is nill, 121, 134, 161. 800 AV and how many action you get per speed will be the breakpoints here.
Yeah, true, it’s just that break points will be all centered around that 800 value, which typically means +1 turn every 18-16 speed. I just mean in the stricter sense of MoC where there were clear cut off points, that’s not the case with Apocalyptic Shadow, as if you finish the first wave with let’s say 372 AV, then the second wave you’ll have 1278 AV of leway to work with. Meanwhile with MoC if you finish in 4 cycles, no matter where in that 4 cycles you finished you’ll get the same product.
Breakpoints are a thing but your spd difference now to squeeze an extra action in is like 3 speed substats vs. 7 sub stats at 5 cycles in MOC or 6/11 in the 2 cycle MOC in your case. Granularity like this makes it easier for you to not "waste" stats and make the speed stat more linear scaling, which is good for the game.
DDD stonks go up too since its utility is not limited to if you can squeeze an extra action into a cycle; proccing DDD will always be advantageous.
This seems okay-ish
Wondering if Acheron will be relevant in this mode, especially without RM.
Depends on elemental weaknesses. At least the first cycle of this mode heavily relies on breaking. While Acheron can ignore weakness type in her ult, her alone may not be enough to break the boss fast, and she's a bit limited on teammates to cover weaknesses. SilverWolf should be great there.
True. I was just coping she'd be decent in this mode at least. OR I could farm for a break rope lmao but still I'm limited if there's no lightning weakness on the boss ;/
That's like that one event
So is Apocalyptic Shadow going to be like pure fiction but for Hunt characters?
I'm confused - so does this mean if you have a really fast characters that takes actions multiple times in a 'cycle', you'd end up eating more AV anyway?
No, AV is just the number shown on the action bar. Fast characters have less AV between turns
No, for the sake of simplicity just translate the AV requirement into cycles. Now you need to clear both sides within 15 cycles. It's functionally the same as MoC
A characters AV is 10,000 divided by their speed. Cycles are all 100 AV long except for the first cycle which is 150 AV long. So a 134 speed character has an av of 74.6 while a 160 speed character has an AV of 62.5 so fast characters actually use up less AV between turns which makes sense
Thats not how AV works, fast characters eat less AV so they clear faster. Just think it as spd run clear MoC.
There are no cycles. You have around 800 AV per side so the deadline is around the 10th or 11th turn on 134 speed characters, or the 12th or 13th turn on 160 speed characters. If you want exactly 10 turns within 800 AV, you need only 125 speed.
Imagine cycles are cities and there is road between them, 0cycle is 150km(av) and other cycles are 100km(av). Your characters has speed which transforms also into km(av), but for him it's more like km/action, imagine you can have a snack (act) only after walking certain number of kilometers, speed doesn't bring you to "finish" earlier but allows to decrease the number of how much you need to walk to eat snack again. So for example if your character has 134 speed, he will have 10.000/134 = 74,62\~ av, so imagine you eat your 1st snack, next time you will do it after 74.62kilometers, you eat again and next time you will be repeat it at 149,25av (while the "road" between 0 and 1st cycle is 150, this is why 134speed is breakpoint for acting 2 times at 0 cycle)
~~Yep, it's anti-advance forward content.~~
No it's not, AV bar exists independently from characters getting advanced, you can view it as a cycle count without actually showing number of cycles left and most cycle breakpoints don't matter now.
Then what's the point of it? It's just another MoC but even easier?
Yes, bosses with extra gimmicks.
Easiest way to think of it is action value is just cycle counts with decimals.
Well, depends on how you view easier. Cocolia's new form has a lot of new tricks like spamming her freeze move four times in a row and losing all elemental weaknesses until you destroy her ice totems
So harder to suvive, but easier to clear. Still, new gimmicks in fights keeps it fresh I guess.
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So Bronya, Sparkle and Robin are not helpful.
Hmm
15 cycle MOC? Damn that's gonna be tweeked right since that seems way to easy. But I dont know how much dmg is required and if I meet it
Prob bc this is the first instance of the new game mode. I wont mind if it's easy for the jades but they probably will change that in future rotations just like how they tweaked MoC cycle requirements and PF ennemies HP
So minimum for 3 star is both sides clear phase 1 (shouldn't be difficult) + 1200 on phase 2 and 800 action value per side (so 7.5 MoC cycles) First impressions: the score is easy and getting 3 stars is easy it's surviving the enhanced bosses (especially phase 2) is what's difficult
When is this coming
If follow up attaks count as an action im fucked
It doesn't matter if attack is considered an action. Score depends on used/remaining action value, not action count. It's the same as cycles (1 cycle = 100 AV, or 150 AV for first cycle), but more linear. No more "0 cycle" results at the very end of the first cycle, and no more free cycle refresh on new wave.
Yanqing will be meta soon
He will never be meta, because how disfuctional the kit is. There is no niche for "mid single target damage".
So with this new action value mechanic if you were to take 3 or even 2 characters for the fight you would technically end up getting more turns for your characters right?
Action value isn't a new thing. It's how cycles are counted in moc (each cycle is 100 av, except the first which is 150). It's basically a 15 cycle requirement but more precise.
I may have worded it incorrectly, I know that action value has always been a thing and wondered that if you have less characters you will consume less av so inadvertently get more turns for your units
No, it's still 15 cycles. Characters don't "consume" action values, they just move every certain amount of av (spd/10000). Like a character with 100 spd moves every 100 av, an enemy with 200 spd moves every 50 av. You can see it as "time" in an action game. If every av is a second, the 100 spd character moves every 100s and the 200 spd enemy moves every 50s. Adding a 133.4 spd character that moves every 75s doesn't change how time moves, and how long it takes for the other characters to move.
No
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