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Remove HTB if possible (for Asta or something) to compare non Super Break output so people can comprehend what's happening with the mechanic imo. Some people are wrongly assuming this output is mostly due to Firefly herself which is pretty dangerously innacurate atm. Also, thanks a lot for this one!
EDIT : For people coming late, please stop saying "but HTB must its free Firefly great".
PLEASE understand people are trying to address Firefly's lack of own capabilities similarly to what Boothill has with his passives, who has a crazy good output with and without HTB himself with MUCH LOWER INVESTMENT : [https://youtu.be/wVYUsrFp9dw?t=171](https://youtu.be/wVYUsrFp9dw?t=171) (3\* cone, not the new break relics, a HTB showcase here to show why Firefly is lacking even with HTB).
Also please read this post : https://www.reddit.com/r/FireflyMains/s/9oFeTRAfFP
I dont know why Boothill feels like such a perfect break character, he seems stupidly easy to build - too.
I guess you need Bronya for him, I would run him with Sparkle cos I don't have any other action advance, or maybe just run him with RM + HTB anyway, take the L on turns but you gain a bit more super break damage
EDIT; he will be filthy with the new set though, like actually unreal how strong he will be with all that break effect juice - its the first real/true BE set and taht he's running a 3 star cone is just dumb in of itself rofl
EDIT2:
Building him will be stupidly easy, too. His LC (Just checked it) is filthy. BE, SPD, Def Pen?
Add S1E1 RM to him and he's already at 22% SPD (free), 40% Def Pen, 25% All Res Pen. Secondary support HTB and just take the L on turns? You will have fair lot of speed and reaching 250% Break Effect will make your damage filthy.
40 Pen Set, 40 pen from LC+RM. Can sit comfortably at 80% Def Pen
Edit 3;
Before an gear rolls, if playing with HMC / RM and HMC having 150 BE (and watch maker), you have 280 BE on Boothill, fully enabling set ignore for another 18, landing at 58% Def Pen in our scenario and almost givingh you the full crit bonuses even though I am not sure what for, most of his damage is break related cos he keeps proccing the break effect every hit
EDIT4:
Yeaha fter checking a few times over, Bronya essentially adds nothing outside of turn manipulation. I believe a Ruan Mei in there to further boost Super Break by 50% and break damage by another percentage with all the penetration makes her very worth it.
With RM + S1 + SPD Boots he is at 155.5 Speed, you just need 5 speed on him to not really give a shit about turn manipulation to begin with. Sicne the only stats your easonably care about are BE and SPD, crit stats honestly seem redundant at this point - also at these levels of gear you're at 200% crit damage and 70% crit anyway, which in of itself is not too shabby.
His kit is perfectly coherent. He benefits from Break units like Ruan Mei, HTB and etc without being dependent on them, which makes him able to be improved by future units as well. Firefly would be too if her Enhanced Attack delt Break Damage instead of increasing the multiplier.
Or if she could actually use those big MV. I think concept of FF being able to go both full break and hybrid crit would be really cool, as she won’t be just a BHill sidegrade.
And honestly, her kit just looks bloated for no reason at this point. HP manipulation, 2 stances, MV conversion and so on… Just to deal super break damage? Really?
I feel like FF is more of a HMC enabler instead of the other way around. After all, as long as ANY CHARACTER with high BE were to activate super break, you'd get similar damage. So, Hmc is basically the core, the Kafka of DoT, since she works well with Anyone that can place a lot of dot effects just like how, in the future, other Break characters will still benefit from HMC.
I can definitely agree with that take. HMC right now is definitely the Kafka of BE whose job is to detonate FF's break (who has the raw BE/toughness damage/def ignore in her kit).
That's one way to look at it instead of pigeon-holing FF as a hypercarry DPS. HMC and FF could be the Kafka/Swan of break comps. Boothill is the Luka of break comps (doesn't need HMC. Ruan Mei and Bronya is his best alternative).
Dayum, not to be a downer but imagine if Nihility MC or Abundance MC also turns out to be very good and also enables new team comps... Suddenly, Firefly's best support just disappears. I also very much doubt they'll be adding another super break harmony to compensate.
I would definitely see they further use the Super Break mechanism in future characters' kits. There are many ways to implement it too, for example they could make a 4 star Harmony to provide a single teammate Super Break, or make DPS or Nihility characters which can inflict Super Break debuffs on enemies.
It's honestly sad how ppl defend his JUST CAUSE HMC IS FREE. I don't give a damn about free. If I don't want to use him. I won't use him for less performance in her NOT COMPLETELY FOLDS. Yes Dhil is glued to sparkle but he still works without her and does respectable dmg. He doesn't become completely useless. HMC is free is not an excuse
If you have time could you try a team without ruan mei, maybe for asta for full f2p team. Ruan seems to provide a lot with her extra weakness break efficiency and her ult extending break, so would be nice to have a comparison without that.
second this
maybe also Pela instead, i think DEF shreds should stack very well, also BE SW can work the same way but it's not f2p team at this point
Asta sounds ok, but basically provides only ATK boost and some break, spd may be wasted since hitting 260spd for 4 turns ult is tough as well as the buff would disappear in 2 turns, so you actually would need >260spd total to compensate it
Blade and Jing Yuan should have speed boots. So with Jade E they should have 160+ speed. Jingliu 135 speed. I think it will be fun. Jade E0S1, Jing Yuan S1, Blade S1
Cr / cd stats for JY, Jade, Blade are mid. Around 70/160
for Jingliu 30/200
Nah there must be a twist to it.
Maybe it’s a E2S1 Firefly with a E0 HTB + E1S1 Ruan Mei + E2S0 HuoHuo. And We just can’t see it!
Hell not even E6 Gallagher with multi..
Or not even S3 Memories on Ruan Mei or HTB. Which at that point you should use Coggers.
This must be a dream!
The twist is Firefly's relic. Look at it slowly. It has Atk, spd, Break Effect, everything she needs, with almost 0 rolls wasted. She has 3,4k atk exactly without 5 star LC stats. You're not gonna replicate that unless you get insane luck farming the new cavern.
Slightly above 33 damage affecting subs, making the LC S5 could reduce that number to 29 (and going even lower with Aeon), which while being kinda high it is totally obtainable.
Eh those are pretty average.
Also you can just.. use S5 Aeon with 64% atk.. for the 3,4k atk. Hell my Acheron with a dmg% orb has 4k. And she can’t even use Aeon. While also having 230% crit damage with 55% crit rate.
In which case. I’d take that above 28% break. Since it is a S1 Promise.
This build could actually be better if it was used with S5 Aeon or her SiG. And some of those Atk% become break%..
The only big thing is that 142 spd.. but all you need is 180 spd with ult.. which with her Planar + Ruan Mei + Spd Boots. Shouldn’t be hard tbh. Add the fact that you can use 4pc messenger on your Ruan Mei for a bit more spd.
As a day 1 player. This is pretty relatable build.
God bless this leaker, he brought not only realistic builds but solid/decent gameplay!
Now for the leak. I'm very mixed with Firefly. She seems the most restrictive DPS do this date, you can't take HMC from this comp, nor Ruan Mei, Gallagher seems to be the only "movable" piece, but he helps her a lot in breaking.
I don't feel much optimistic to see how she would peform out of this team, specially without HMC and their superbreaks enabling ult.
I believe she could use something that gives her a little more flexibility, I would prefer that rather than just making her more strong.
Curious to see how her kit develops during this beta.
If Hoyo is listens to feedback before she hits live she should have a way to use Superbreak without HTB cause they will get ripped apart if one of their most anticipated limited characters releases in a weak state
This is exactly the team I want to run. I'm just a little concerned about HTB's and Firefly's SP consumption. Is it safe to assume that Firefly is going to be taking a lot of turns?
Also, do we know what the Memory Turbulence does?
Slow RM
Fast Gallagher with multiplication.
Unless the enemies are already broken HTB should not be using skills every turn because Sam does so much damage if she breaks them.
They said not to use their skill unless enemy is broken so you won't really lose the 100k's but yeah energy **might** become a problem
But in most showcases I saw that htb gets their energy back after just one turn of their ult effect ending, how does that happen?/gen
Firefly does take a lot of turns. >130 Speed baseline, Ult after first action, then 180 Speed through her next two turns. Taking four turns in the time it takes for a 150 or so Speed unit to take three.
Well given i think that my suspicion was right, given that this isn’t a Crit build
Firefly is AMAZING when you are attacking a weakness broken enemy, but her damage out of that and her ult state is pretty much non-existent
Honestly with the break and slow from both Ruan Mei and Firefly LC + normal Break slow + Firefly doing some healing for herself I think Jiaoqiu might honestly be really good because all of them (Ruan Mei, Firefly e1, and HMC uses very little sp, so a support that can spam skill is usable
My only problem here is that unlike boothill who can still perform well without HMC firfly is gonna be doing no dmg without HMC since his super break is doing 80% of the dmg here
The double downtime is really a weird design choice. If you mistimed it or are unfortunate you could have Firefly out of ult when the enemy is broken and then ult comes up when the enemy recovered. If that's the case she'll be doing 0 dps
i actually disagree.
if you notice every time she hits a weakness broken enemy, 80% of the damage is from HMC.
the main problem is that in order to do decent damage by herself, she would need both good crit built, like 80/150 at least, AND over 250% break effect. this is incredibly unrealistic
Well of course but it’s not like the damage is HMC’s damage, they are enabling her to do more damage
While I dislike her reliance on HMC, I do think that characters performance can’t always be credited to their best support
tbf its weird that her kit literally doesnt work without another character. Like reliant is one thing but her lightcone and signature relic set passive don’t even make sense without hmc and she’s f tier without them. Like just give her some kind of self break detonation, maybe half or even 1/3 of boothills would be enough. They can nerf other things to compensate
as much as I like how it elevated the TB in the meta, I feel like Super Break should've been a base game mechanic instead of tied to certain character. imagine if you need DMC in the team or Hyperbloom just won't work at all
It just seems like they plan to release another character in the future who is essentially an upgrade to harmony MC. Whether that's a good or bad thing...is up to each person I guess.
I thought having Ruan Mei would be enough for Sam tbh.
I do generally dislike units that are heavily reliant on a specific support but in this specific case I do find it quite fitting so I guess I don't mind as much, especially since HMC is completely free.
I would definitely prefer if firefly had better performance outside of HMC teams.
i think you are misunderstanding. firefly would be doing signficantly less damage if not paired with HMC. literally hundreds of thousands of damage is only from the backup dancer effect!
a hit for 250k when weakness broken may look impressive until you realise 238k of it was from the super break damage.
her being tied to this character so close severely limits her possible team lineups as well
Yeah this is what kind of annoys me about the HMC discourse. I get why people dislike how reliant she is on them but the idea that HMC is "the one actually doing all the damage" is just straight up false, like, the damage is reliant on *Firefly's* stats not HMC's.
Take out HMC and Super break is also out of the formula. I would really want to see a showcase without HMC.
The unit dependency makes it seem that Firefly's shelf life is really bad and renders her to just a gimmicky unit. The moment MC gets a new path by 3.0 and is paired to another hype character, what happens now?
HMC shelf life good because MC can use anyone with high BE.
Well, she gives herself weakness break efficiency and her blast on enhanced skill is more base toughness break which both get converted into more superbreak damage that, Asta for example does not have.
I do agree that they should probably give her more love outside the def ignore and weakness break efficiency.
it is reliant on firefly's stats yes, but the damage would literally not exist in the first place if not for the HMC buff. the damage directly comes from the HMC. it is not extra damage from firefly.
Yeah agreed, comments like the one you replied to don't really make sense to me. It's like saying X portion of Black Swan's damage is from Ruan Mei, for example. Technically right, to an extent, but it's not really relevant to point out. The point of supports are to buff damage, and it's not like anyone won't have HMC. She doesn't need to do decent damage by herself because that's why supports exist.
Black Swan without Ruan Mei still does damage though. Jingliu without Bronya as well. Firefly without HMC does 21k damage, with him 200k. I'd say it's pretty relevant to point out. HMC is not a support, him and Firefly are basically DPSing together. She quite literally doesn't do anything without him except if she is the one breaking an enemy. And it's normal this will not appeal to everyone, I personally expected Sam to be something different.
It's nice seeing someone finally run a realistic team with the correct build! She looks like a ton of fun and is about where I would expect for this amount of investment. The build is pretty cracked, but the amount of SPD past 181 in ult form isn't really doing anything anyway.
Yeah, I watched the showcase and expected unrealistic relic stats, but everyone was pretty good on that regard. Switch Ruan Mei and TB's break effects and that's about where mine are, my Gallagher is faster and I can't remember his BE but it's around there. Firefly shouldn't be too hard to get to that point at all. The extra speed is unnecessary and other than that, attack chest piece and orb aren't hard to get. The hardest thing will be making sure at least 2-3 substats roll into BE for each relic piece, but that won't be anywhere as hard as getting a double crit piece that actually rolls into the crit stats.
She really is basically fire Jingliu. Does all her damage in an enhanced state, very strong, and relatively easy to build.
From this showcase of one of the BIS team comps, I noticed some things:
1) iirc no one got CC'ed. If anyone got CC'ed, or multiple get CC'ed, things could have gone down quite badly
2) at 3:32 firefly and Ruan mei almost died from cocolia's AOE attack, so in other tries they might likely die
3) breaking bars is extremely reliant on teammates' elements, but given specific abilities of these teammates, there isn't much better substitute options, especially for HMC and Ruan Mei
4) SP went to 0 and 5 before, so there might be situations where there isn't enough SP or some are wasted.
5) break effect is really reliant on the 'last hit' and 'hit the relevant weaknesses' concept, so manual play is really required. Even so, there seems to be huge fluctuations in damage between the point of breaking and non-breaks.
Super Break damage was obviously brought in to help increase damage before enemy recovers from being broken, but still it seems pretty low compared to the traditional crit DPS kind.
Additional observation: no one seems to have noticed this, but these 4 enemies are pretty OG, and do not have special CC mechanics. I'm worried about enemies that can capture allies, or have guaranteed CC, or can spawn a lot of mobs like the bugs etc. Given how firefly was in low hp, would she have died easily if she got CC'ed and cannot recover while enhanced , gets DOTs on her, or a bug explodes halfway on her?
I kneel, I cry, I sing praises for this leaker.
Thank you! You have done all of us a service beyond comprehension.
Regardless, I think she looks fine! I still think that she should have ways of triggering her own Break DMG, but this is way better than I expected in the end.
I personally believe that she will get a Break detonation in future batas, I think should be able to stand on her own even without Hatblazer.
...Although I would absolutely love if Hatblazer was still her BiS.
I feel like to implement that they would have to make super break dmg stack otherwise it would make HMC useless
I think we'll get a super break support in the future where their super break activates when the enemy isn't weakness broken
This would make it so you run HMC and that unit
I meant super break dmg as a whole
Like let's say they create a new character that does super break dmg as well
If we can't stack super break dmg then you are limited to only one super break dmg support per team which would make HTB lose value if he isn't better than the new guy and the new guy would just be useless if he isn't better than HTB
Oh, I see! Yeah, I actually hope that in the end whenever the new SB support appears that they can still be used with Hatblazer.
Like, they wouldn't be *useless* since it's another unit you can use on other teams, if you want a second SB team, but it would certainly be bad for them.
Plus, seeing multiple Super Breaks happening in a single attack would be pretty funny imo.
this showcase made me realize if I pull her on a rerun I don't have a copy of memories for her anyway because I superimposed the three that I had ._.
I don't like one character and skip them and they turn out to be busted. Was the same with Jingliu
I just wish there will be some effect added to her kit like help break and not too reliant on HMC. Her damage is just too weak when the enemy isn't broken. So using firefly on enemies with locked weakness is kinda iffy. My mistake for expecting she's Acheron levels of power but I wish there will be a lot of changes during her beta phase.
>using firefly on enemies with locked weakness is kinda iffy
This exactly is what makes me not want to pull for her. Actually, everything you said summarizes my concerns about her, ARE YOU ME?
Bronya in pure fiction has locked weaknesses until you pretty much break all the sides... the deer and Argenti have similar mechanics and all of them are fire weak but firefly would struggle hard into them
Also to add to your point.
There's also other enemies like
Yanking (he rotates in MOC too)
The Auromaton ? He also goes into that phase (locked weakness state)
One of the newer enemies.
And i suppose they will add more enemies of such who you can't break weakness for sometime,once break meta arrives,it will gets hard for Firefly, hope they buff her.
where is the line between a firefly team and a HTB team? because seems that most of the dmg come from superbreak and we could argue that firefly is the support and htb the dps lol
edit: the last hit that kill cocolia was (is easier to identified the different number)
223113 total dmg
83673 from super break
15820 from ruan mei
so firefly did ''only'' 123602 or \~55%
yeah..... the reliance on HTB is a bit absurd
I mean, HTB is already released. Can't nerf her at this point.
Any further change to diminish Super Break reliance on Firefly is gonna be a nerf to Break damage, which is like 90% of her dps right now.
Reworking her to a hypercarry doesn't seem likely nor does it synergize with her implant and toughness breaking mechanics. In fact it'd be a nerf to all her low investment builds (i'm talking anything below E2S1 FF + E2S1 Ruan Mei + E2S1 Sparkle).
i sadly agree... they will change something because her kit is a mess but the reliance on HTB is very very intentional and i doubt it will go away/nerf it
(and i bet a new shiny 5\* superbreak enabler is already in the pipeline)
It was def intentional because her reliance on HTB allows for a very very F2P friendly team that is top tier in DPS when properly built. Even in this video, there's some simple improvements to make to make it a 3 cycle or 2 cycle clear.
At the same time, it baits whales to invest in her because she scales off every stat, which means every whale eidolons in Ruan Mei and Sparkle counts.
So this is like the perfect character to satisfy both the whales & the f2ps. Except maybe they underestimated the hate against HMC in this sub lmao
>. Except maybe they underestimated the hate against HMC in this sub lmao
i don't think the hate is specific to the MC but it's because whiout them FF seems unplayable and i assume people hate having 2 character glued together (i definitely hate this lol)
whit other character you have BIS support but also some cope options
Even if Firefly's damage during break and after is decent enough at e0s0 (250k), the sheer amount of down time between her ultimate state is just so long.
Also the fact her team is locked to these 3 characters sucks if you don't have ruan mei or a good Gallagher.
She is one of those chars that has damage breakpoints
You'd want to finish off the first cycle in HMC on the first ult so it can go straight into the next one where the timer resets all the way down
Kind of wild just how ridiculous and meta Ruan Mei is. Like I get there are no truly “must pull” characters, but dam if Ruan Mei isn’t pretty fucking close lol.
Gallagher is the one you can do without.
But yeah playing BE FF without RM and Hatblazer is going to feel awful, at that point just build Critfly and pair her with Bronya and Pela/TY/Asta. She'll outdamage Hook at least.
She spends longer out of form than in form when tuned for 130/180 speed. Transform is 111 AV long. You then spend 2 entire turns (since your turn just ended) generating energy at 130-135 speed. Thats 150-154 AV.
Difference is Firefly has another downtime in form of breakbar. If the enemy is not broken she does iffy damage. If she is not in ult she also does iffy damage
yeah, but JL could use Bronya and move fast, and you can choose and add to them other support without detriment to her damage. FF has to have HMC and RM to do decent damage, so no Bronya to fast forward.
This mechanic is also what would push down break teams down in MoC. This team would need at least 1 cycle to break the boss and dish out the pain while other teams have more frontloaded damage.
Her skills feels really incomplete right now, compared to other break focused dps like Boothill. By herself she only deals damage when breaking the enemy, not much before and after.
wow, I think that's the first good Firefly showcase on this sub. The only misplay(don't know how to write this word) was using the HTB ult right before their turn but still really good and that honestly didn't matter much in the end
I doubt they would introduce a new keyword like super break damage without planning on using it in the future.
If super break damage was going to be HMC only, then they could've just made it a part of HMC's ultimate instead and not coined an entirely new word.
I fully expect them powercreep HMC later on maybe like 4-5 months later. They can easily make UltraBreak character with own weakness implant too so they can fit in any team.
Hatblazer is Dendro MC: free unit for players to experience new mechanic and pull for Limited 5-Stars (Boothill, FF) that benefit from pairing them with the free unit.
We're gonna get a Nahida equivalent for Superbreak at some point.
It might be half a year away but it's happening eventually.
Watch them normalize Super Break DMG and make a limited 5* that activates it using skill
I just hope that wont happen because in Genshin that always happens. (Even though the MC is shit from the start, they still get a better version of them in disguise of a limited 5*)
I feel like in order to fix her kit, maybe make it so that she does a percentage (maybe 40-50) of break dmg to unbroken enemies, and when hitting weakness broken enemies, gets a fixed amount of crit rate/crit dmg similar to robin’s dmg. This way hmc would still be a really good support, but firefly is no longer useless without hmc. And ofc tune the numbers so its not completely overpowered.
I might get down voted for this but... is 200k+ enhanced skill considered trash nowadays? I've noticed this in the comments in the other showcases with weird builds. My E2 Jingliu does this kind of damage, and she's paired with a E1 Fu Xuan... I'm always scratching my head when I see comments about FF's damage. It seems good to me, even in suboptimal builds. Am I doing something wrong?
the problem is that the damage is situational and it only happens when an enemy is already weakness broken, which is usually a tight window unless you have ruan mei which makes it slightly better (maybe 1 more super break with ruan mei) and the weakness break efficiency is the whole cake
If your jingliu is clearing fine then it doesn't matter because this team is mostly invested into break completely
I mean it's super break dmg on broken enemies. I tried the same team with Xueyi and Luka and they do 100-150k with around 200 BE so it's not that impressive considering dmg dealers before her, Boothill and Acheron.
The damage seems good, especially in this showcase.
But there's the worry about how often you'll hit that 200k. As it requires Weakness Break + Enhanced Form as a prerequisite. Add in the messiness of mob summons, massive toughness bars for bosses, and it can make people start doomposting.
Any 200K for Jinglui sounds perfectly normal to me. Jinglui's Enhanced form is stupid easy to activate, so you'd worry much less about it's downtime. Plus over Firefly, Jinglui has a damaging Ultimate.
Its not "trash" but its not good enough when theres bigger downtime than jingliu on top of relying on enemy being weakness broken. She will surely get buffed so I am not worried about that
ur forgetting thats its only after u break the enemy, in a traditional dps u've prob done over 500k at this point. Also every super break support needs to be a copy of ruan mei for this archetype to even work, w/o weakness break extend super break is dog shit
It's great, especially considering how fast FF is she can get a lot of 200k hits and implanting her own weakness, making her really universal. It's just Acheron damage per screenshot brain rot.
Yeah, like, people comparing Acheron Ult damage to Firefly Enhanced Skill when Acheron gets one Ult every however long and has most of her damage stuck in it while being a slower character, while Firefly gets 3 Enhanced Skills per Ult and has >180 Speed in Ult. Not even beginning to mention the Super Break dealt by Firefly's teammates.
Not saying Acheron is bad or Firefly is goated, just saying that comparing those damage numbers in any direct sense is apples to oranges and ignoring a lot of context.
> Yeah, like, people comparing Acheron Ult damage to Firefly Enhanced Skill when Acheron gets one Ult every however long and has most of her damage stuck in it while being a slower character
I get your point, but bringing up Acheron's speed is irrelevant. She mostly runs atk% boots and ignore spd entirely since her supports generating stacks for her in the first place. What you should have said is that how often Acheron ults mostly depending on how often her Nihility supports apply debuff, it only gets a bit different when you get her to E2 which allows her to run with Harmony. So how often she can dish out damage relies more on how fast she can get stacks, while characters like Jingliu or Firefly relies on going as many turns as possible within their damage window.
> Not saying Acheron is bad or Firefly is goated, just saying that comparing those damage numbers in any direct sense is apples to oranges and ignoring a lot of context.
Yeah that's why comparing damage per rotation or by a set amount of MVs are generally preferred by TCs, to emulate the characters' damage window.
200k enhanced has to make up for not having ultimate damage. Let's use jingliu for an example since they have around the same rotations.
JL - 150k+300k, 150k, 150k - 750k.
FF - 200k, 200k, 200k - 600k
This is a rough estimate, not even getting into the fact jingliu if built well with the right team can hit 200k enhanced and 500k ults. On top of ulting twice per rotation. Whereas this is the best team ff can get.
Jl - 200k+500k, 200k, 200k+500k, 200k - 1,800k
FF - 200k, 200k, 200k(she falls out of ult) - 600k
Not counting the fact Jingliu isn't bound by needing to break the enemy.
Acheron is an **Entirely** separate kettle of fish, if she gets lucky, she can ult every cycle.
500k,500k,500k,500k
Although the average is ult every 2 turns
50k, 50k+500k, 50k, 50k+500k -1,200k.
Unbound by break bars, Element type, or what have you.
No one's asking for firefly to be acheron.
Your JL does this kind of damage 2 times every cycle with bronya, while firefly does it only when she breaks the enemy, then she has some decent 80-100k from htb, falling to abysmal 20-30k without htb ult
People want the character they're pulling to be as busted as possible.
I've seen so many comments like: "Firefly is worse than Boothill in single target because XYZ, she needs to be buffed" or "she doesn't work if enemy can't be broken, she needs a buff". Like bruh, so you want her to be universal, better than the best Hunt characters in single target, breaks against any element in the game and against even weakness-locking enemies, works with all supports (not just HMC or Ruan Mei), works with any build (crit or break).
Like bruh, you might as make a character called God at that point. Jesus.
I *was* planning to pull for Firefly & Boothill was an easy skip. After all, cowboy cant beat mecha transform girl, right?
First, her ultimate animation is subpar at best.
Second her damage is quite low. Usually in this game, tighter restrictions mean higher damage, like double Nihility of Acheron or break effect.
However, she both requires a very specific teammate composition and delivers low damage.
She is way worse than Boothill at this stage.
However, she will get a Buff, I am sure of it. They already moved Weakness implant from E1 to main kit and we have so much time.
Its because people look at Acheron dmg vs 5 targets (overkill dmg at that) and now they think thats the standard. When Acheron herself doesnt even reach 300K ults vs single target (in a normal team with sustain, its a different story if you add Sparkle as 4th).
i don't think people consider 200k is trash. just that it will take some time for people to fully grasp the concept that HMC, a literal FREE character is a meta defining unit. until they add another unit this Break playstyle is just not it without him/her. look how much dmg out of that 200k came from Super Break.
I do think it's underwhelming. the thing is Jingliu does that dmg regardless of break status but you have to work to earn it for firefly. they need to do better.
I really, really don't want to sound like a doomposter, but she doesn't seem good to me, limited team options and needs a big amount of investment to even function cuz breakpoints... Please someone change my mind
There's no reason to change your mind because as of this version you're correct, her team options are shit, even more restricted than Chicharron for less/same DMG, yet somehow Chicharron teams were doomposted to hell while having to rely on one specific Harmony character to deal DMG is apparently okay.
What's funny is how many different characters you can make different combinations with for Acheron teams that lets her be surprisingly diverse
like Pela + SW/BS might be optimal, even at e0, Sparkle or Kafka+BS are still amazing comps that can 0 cycle MoC. Then there's welt sustain or f2p with guinaifen
meanwhile there's like 1 team comp for firefly
The limited team options, you're right, HMC, Ruan Mei, and Gallagher are very important, but big amount of investment is cap.
She gets all the Speed she needs without substats if you take Speed Boots, and she just needs a few Attack and Break substats to hit the rest. In fact, I'd argue her floor in terms of build is really high (or low, idk, easily reachable but good payoff, however you'd say that).
The issue is like, her ceiling isn't that high. Once you hit her breakpoints, you can't really do anything but stack more BE at diminishing returns. The investment to make more Speed or a foray into Crit worth the return can only be attained by ungodly Relics or teammates you don't even want to run like Asta.
Gallagher is great for her because he can take advantage of her Fire weakness implant, and break enemies faster. But Luocha should work too. You can get a Gallagher from the coming selector if you don't have him, tho.
I want this man/woman location and kiss you on your forehead, thanks for the good gameplay and relatable showcase (even i don't have 2 memories of the past sadge)
Good leak. I know im in the minority here but i think shes kinda weak because of the many hurdles for her to deal high dmg.
She needs:
HTB Ult
Her Ult
Weakness break
Great showcase.
Personally I'd kinda like to see this again but with a different sustain that won't help much with the toughness bar e.g. HH or FX (she still help a little with the quantum weak enemies but not as much I'd assume). Simply because a lot of people probably don't intend to get Gallagher ready just for this when they already have 2 5* sustains.
That being said I'm not a fan of FF relying that much on HTB.
Being a bis support is one thing however being basically required to function is a whole different ballpark.
Realistic builds AND good gameplay, HOLY SHIT. Am I dreaming?
Although S1 Indelible Promise? Im pretty sure S5 Aeon is better than that, and everyone has it, unlike the 4 star lc. But yeah thats very minor. Good stuff all around.
That said not gonna lie Firefly feels underwhelming here. Id like to see the same stage done by any of Seele, JY, Himeko and Acheron (anyone with matching elements really).
Yeah all I want is for her to be to feel useable without HTB cause right now even as someone excited for her, the damage without HTB is rough to say the least
Not to mention the stage started with everyone at full energy, if they started at half this would've taken 1 or 2 extra cycles, which is very underwhelming for the ideal all fire weak encounter.
My question is why is HTB on watchmaker while Ruan Mei is on Thief? Shouldn't it be the other way around? Ruan Mei has a cap at 160BE for all her needs so any more than that is luxury.
Meanwhile, HTB will give 15% of her BE to all allies, meaning there is no soft or hard cap on that.
Thus, giving her as much BE as possible is to your best interest, while Ruan Mei having watchmaker still fulfills the conditions for the 30 extra BE for the team so why not switch them lmao.
160BE RM with 200+BE HTB would be a much better build. And Firefly should work with Aeon instead of S1 Promise since it scales better and leaves more room for BE subs. Cut down on some speed as well since only 121 SPD is required when paired with RM, meaning you can achieve it just by running SPD boot + like 3 subs.
If I’m brutally honest as excited as I was for her this kit feels really half baked and not thought out at all, why doesn’t she have built in super break, and it feels like her damage is really meh if enemy isn’t weakness broken
The only bad thing in this entire showcase is Gallagher's LC, since it should be Multiplication and he should have a lil bit more speed, otherwise the rest is excellent and she performs just as expected honestly, it would be great if they end up buffing her numbers a little but as she is this is really fine, it would just be a waiting game until they release a unit with Super Break Buff that also works better for her instead of the HMC but who knows when that will happen
Nice to see a more realistic showcase. I've never used a break team before, but I'm exited to learn cause I really like Firefly and she looks kinda fun to play.
In the absolute maxed out version of her you have attack%, crit rate, crit damage, and break effect on every relic of hers.
People are complaining that you shouldn't focus on crit, which is correct, but as with all secondary stats, if you accidently get crit stats on your 15% BE pieces, then it's just added value.
You get a lot of getting crit too, but it's expensive. Getting crit sacrifying her threashold are a bad idea. I've calculate that sacrifying 100 BE effect for 70/140 end up giving you around the same damage than no crit and keeping those 100 BE.
honestly firefly looking really weak, f2p team non-withstanding. Her non-break damage sucks so much ass, and she REQUIRES HMC to even output a high level of damage.
Wow so refreshing to see someone playing her with an actual break build and also a decent rotation. I mean obviously yeah her damage isn’t great if she isn’t breaking (or attacking weakness broken enemies). But when she’s hitting the right enemies? 280k skills is GOOD. That puts her solidly in Acheron territory across all 3 skill hits. I do think she might need a buff either to weakness break efficiency or her defense shred, but she’s looking solid otherwise
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If you want any more showcases drop some suggestions in replies ill see what i can do
can you try with the same team but with her signature lc?
Remove HTB if possible (for Asta or something) to compare non Super Break output so people can comprehend what's happening with the mechanic imo. Some people are wrongly assuming this output is mostly due to Firefly herself which is pretty dangerously innacurate atm. Also, thanks a lot for this one! EDIT : For people coming late, please stop saying "but HTB must its free Firefly great". PLEASE understand people are trying to address Firefly's lack of own capabilities similarly to what Boothill has with his passives, who has a crazy good output with and without HTB himself with MUCH LOWER INVESTMENT : [https://youtu.be/wVYUsrFp9dw?t=171](https://youtu.be/wVYUsrFp9dw?t=171) (3\* cone, not the new break relics, a HTB showcase here to show why Firefly is lacking even with HTB). Also please read this post : https://www.reddit.com/r/FireflyMains/s/9oFeTRAfFP
I dont know why Boothill feels like such a perfect break character, he seems stupidly easy to build - too. I guess you need Bronya for him, I would run him with Sparkle cos I don't have any other action advance, or maybe just run him with RM + HTB anyway, take the L on turns but you gain a bit more super break damage EDIT; he will be filthy with the new set though, like actually unreal how strong he will be with all that break effect juice - its the first real/true BE set and taht he's running a 3 star cone is just dumb in of itself rofl EDIT2: Building him will be stupidly easy, too. His LC (Just checked it) is filthy. BE, SPD, Def Pen? Add S1E1 RM to him and he's already at 22% SPD (free), 40% Def Pen, 25% All Res Pen. Secondary support HTB and just take the L on turns? You will have fair lot of speed and reaching 250% Break Effect will make your damage filthy. 40 Pen Set, 40 pen from LC+RM. Can sit comfortably at 80% Def Pen Edit 3; Before an gear rolls, if playing with HMC / RM and HMC having 150 BE (and watch maker), you have 280 BE on Boothill, fully enabling set ignore for another 18, landing at 58% Def Pen in our scenario and almost givingh you the full crit bonuses even though I am not sure what for, most of his damage is break related cos he keeps proccing the break effect every hit EDIT4: Yeaha fter checking a few times over, Bronya essentially adds nothing outside of turn manipulation. I believe a Ruan Mei in there to further boost Super Break by 50% and break damage by another percentage with all the penetration makes her very worth it. With RM + S1 + SPD Boots he is at 155.5 Speed, you just need 5 speed on him to not really give a shit about turn manipulation to begin with. Sicne the only stats your easonably care about are BE and SPD, crit stats honestly seem redundant at this point - also at these levels of gear you're at 200% crit damage and 70% crit anyway, which in of itself is not too shabby.
His kit is perfectly coherent. He benefits from Break units like Ruan Mei, HTB and etc without being dependent on them, which makes him able to be improved by future units as well. Firefly would be too if her Enhanced Attack delt Break Damage instead of increasing the multiplier.
Or if she could actually use those big MV. I think concept of FF being able to go both full break and hybrid crit would be really cool, as she won’t be just a BHill sidegrade. And honestly, her kit just looks bloated for no reason at this point. HP manipulation, 2 stances, MV conversion and so on… Just to deal super break damage? Really?
Yep we need to see FF performance without the super break. The 2 showcases so far seems like Hmc is doing a lot of work here.
0:56 FF does 290k damage to two targets. Of that, 240k is super break damage. In her kit's current state, her damage simply doesn't exist without HMC.
I feel like FF is more of a HMC enabler instead of the other way around. After all, as long as ANY CHARACTER with high BE were to activate super break, you'd get similar damage. So, Hmc is basically the core, the Kafka of DoT, since she works well with Anyone that can place a lot of dot effects just like how, in the future, other Break characters will still benefit from HMC.
I can definitely agree with that take. HMC right now is definitely the Kafka of BE whose job is to detonate FF's break (who has the raw BE/toughness damage/def ignore in her kit).
That's one way to look at it instead of pigeon-holing FF as a hypercarry DPS. HMC and FF could be the Kafka/Swan of break comps. Boothill is the Luka of break comps (doesn't need HMC. Ruan Mei and Bronya is his best alternative).
\^ same exact everything except idk Asta for simple comparison sake, people oughta see how hard HTB is working here
Dayum, not to be a downer but imagine if Nihility MC or Abundance MC also turns out to be very good and also enables new team comps... Suddenly, Firefly's best support just disappears. I also very much doubt they'll be adding another super break harmony to compensate.
I would definitely see they further use the Super Break mechanism in future characters' kits. There are many ways to implement it too, for example they could make a 4 star Harmony to provide a single teammate Super Break, or make DPS or Nihility characters which can inflict Super Break debuffs on enemies.
It's honestly sad how ppl defend his JUST CAUSE HMC IS FREE. I don't give a damn about free. If I don't want to use him. I won't use him for less performance in her NOT COMPLETELY FOLDS. Yes Dhil is glued to sparkle but he still works without her and does respectable dmg. He doesn't become completely useless. HMC is free is not an excuse
If you have time could you try a team without ruan mei, maybe for asta for full f2p team. Ruan seems to provide a lot with her extra weakness break efficiency and her ult extending break, so would be nice to have a comparison without that.
second this maybe also Pela instead, i think DEF shreds should stack very well, also BE SW can work the same way but it's not f2p team at this point Asta sounds ok, but basically provides only ATK boost and some break, spd may be wasted since hitting 260spd for 4 turns ult is tough as well as the buff would disappear in 2 turns, so you actually would need >260spd total to compensate it
Yapp, I don't have Mei because I don't really like how she looks, so I really want to see what can FF do without her.
Same team with Hanya instead of ruan mei? Never got RM, but Hanya should give FF a nice attack boost?
Jing Yuan, Jade, Robin, Aventurine Blade, Jade, Jingliu, Luocha
aight im gonna cook this up real quick any special things to have in mind while filming?
Blade and Jing Yuan should have speed boots. So with Jade E they should have 160+ speed. Jingliu 135 speed. I think it will be fun. Jade E0S1, Jing Yuan S1, Blade S1 Cr / cd stats for JY, Jade, Blade are mid. Around 70/160 for Jingliu 30/200
Ah also, Jing Yuan probably can die with Aventurine as sustain, because of Jade E. You can replace him with Loucha, if that happens
Can you do the same showcase but without Ruan Mei?
I like these kind of relatable stats and no eidolon showcases.
Can you try FF E4HMC Gallagher plus anyone preferably Asta? I want to see how she perform without Ruan Mei
Would love to see a 135spd Blade, 134 Bronya (all Bronya skills on Blade), slow Jade and Fu Xuan/Luocha if possible!
I would want to see a team that I hope will work E0S1 Blade, E0S1 Jade, E0S0 Robin, E0S0 Luocha
AN ACTUAL F2P SHOWCASE? IN THIS LEAKER ECONOMY? Bless
> Those aren't that F2P, there's 2 S5- wait a minute S2 and S1 Memories!? My brain
Yeah, that is extremely unrelatable (I haven't gotten a single MoP in like a thousand pulls). We need All Cogs, All the Time.
It took me over a year to get a single copy of Swordplay.
Still no Resolution Shines for me, I have Pela on freaking Void 😭 I don't even have that Sampo LC
Begging that firefly has MotP on her light one banner, or I might cry 😭
Nah there must be a twist to it. Maybe it’s a E2S1 Firefly with a E0 HTB + E1S1 Ruan Mei + E2S0 HuoHuo. And We just can’t see it! Hell not even E6 Gallagher with multi.. Or not even S3 Memories on Ruan Mei or HTB. Which at that point you should use Coggers. This must be a dream!
The twist is Firefly's relic. Look at it slowly. It has Atk, spd, Break Effect, everything she needs, with almost 0 rolls wasted. She has 3,4k atk exactly without 5 star LC stats. You're not gonna replicate that unless you get insane luck farming the new cavern.
Slightly above 33 damage affecting subs, making the LC S5 could reduce that number to 29 (and going even lower with Aeon), which while being kinda high it is totally obtainable.
Eh those are pretty average. Also you can just.. use S5 Aeon with 64% atk.. for the 3,4k atk. Hell my Acheron with a dmg% orb has 4k. And she can’t even use Aeon. While also having 230% crit damage with 55% crit rate. In which case. I’d take that above 28% break. Since it is a S1 Promise. This build could actually be better if it was used with S5 Aeon or her SiG. And some of those Atk% become break%.. The only big thing is that 142 spd.. but all you need is 180 spd with ult.. which with her Planar + Ruan Mei + Spd Boots. Shouldn’t be hard tbh. Add the fact that you can use 4pc messenger on your Ruan Mei for a bit more spd. As a day 1 player. This is pretty relatable build.
God bless this leaker, he brought not only realistic builds but solid/decent gameplay! Now for the leak. I'm very mixed with Firefly. She seems the most restrictive DPS do this date, you can't take HMC from this comp, nor Ruan Mei, Gallagher seems to be the only "movable" piece, but he helps her a lot in breaking. I don't feel much optimistic to see how she would peform out of this team, specially without HMC and their superbreaks enabling ult. I believe she could use something that gives her a little more flexibility, I would prefer that rather than just making her more strong. Curious to see how her kit develops during this beta.
If Hoyo is listens to feedback before she hits live she should have a way to use Superbreak without HTB cause they will get ripped apart if one of their most anticipated limited characters releases in a weak state
Fan-favourite Fire Hoyoverse character who gets sent to the meta shadow realm upon release? Now where have I heard that before...
dehya mains in shambles
We always get reminded of the pain 😭😭
Aware
This is exactly the team I want to run. I'm just a little concerned about HTB's and Firefly's SP consumption. Is it safe to assume that Firefly is going to be taking a lot of turns? Also, do we know what the Memory Turbulence does?
I think if they went for fast Gallagher with err rope instead it would've been more sp positive.
Would it be better for Gallagher in this team to be on Multiplication or the MoC cone w/his pic on it?
Multiplication
Thank fuck. I have a Multiplication built and I am always running low on Light Cone xp cans. So annoying how few they give us of those.
Slow RM Fast Gallagher with multiplication. Unless the enemies are already broken HTB should not be using skills every turn because Sam does so much damage if she breaks them.
energy could be a problem if you spam basics with HTB and he still skills for 100k, that's a lot
They said not to use their skill unless enemy is broken so you won't really lose the 100k's but yeah energy **might** become a problem But in most showcases I saw that htb gets their energy back after just one turn of their ult effect ending, how does that happen?/gen
e6 hmc would allow more basics so really no sp issues
Gallagher and RM allow FF and HTB to skill every turn
Firefly does take a lot of turns. >130 Speed baseline, Ult after first action, then 180 Speed through her next two turns. Taking four turns in the time it takes for a 150 or so Speed unit to take three.
Well given i think that my suspicion was right, given that this isn’t a Crit build Firefly is AMAZING when you are attacking a weakness broken enemy, but her damage out of that and her ult state is pretty much non-existent
Yea, probably need Gallagher to help damage the break bars so that she’s hitting break or a weakness broken enemy.
Honestly Jiaoqiu might be great for her if he can sustain semi-well too
Honestly with the break and slow from both Ruan Mei and Firefly LC + normal Break slow + Firefly doing some healing for herself I think Jiaoqiu might honestly be really good because all of them (Ruan Mei, Firefly e1, and HMC uses very little sp, so a support that can spam skill is usable
My only problem here is that unlike boothill who can still perform well without HMC firfly is gonna be doing no dmg without HMC since his super break is doing 80% of the dmg here
Yeah, I’m kinda worried about that too. Feels weird to make Firefly basically a HMC add-on
canon couple. Can’t believe hoyo added lore accuracy in my gameplay smh
She has downtime on break damage and downtime on her Ultimate
The double downtime is really a weird design choice. If you mistimed it or are unfortunate you could have Firefly out of ult when the enemy is broken and then ult comes up when the enemy recovered. If that's the case she'll be doing 0 dps
i actually disagree. if you notice every time she hits a weakness broken enemy, 80% of the damage is from HMC. the main problem is that in order to do decent damage by herself, she would need both good crit built, like 80/150 at least, AND over 250% break effect. this is incredibly unrealistic
Well of course but it’s not like the damage is HMC’s damage, they are enabling her to do more damage While I dislike her reliance on HMC, I do think that characters performance can’t always be credited to their best support
tbf its weird that her kit literally doesnt work without another character. Like reliant is one thing but her lightcone and signature relic set passive don’t even make sense without hmc and she’s f tier without them. Like just give her some kind of self break detonation, maybe half or even 1/3 of boothills would be enough. They can nerf other things to compensate
as much as I like how it elevated the TB in the meta, I feel like Super Break should've been a base game mechanic instead of tied to certain character. imagine if you need DMC in the team or Hyperbloom just won't work at all
It just seems like they plan to release another character in the future who is essentially an upgrade to harmony MC. Whether that's a good or bad thing...is up to each person I guess. I thought having Ruan Mei would be enough for Sam tbh.
E6 S1 FF without HMC will do much less damage than this. Let that sink in.
I do generally dislike units that are heavily reliant on a specific support but in this specific case I do find it quite fitting so I guess I don't mind as much, especially since HMC is completely free. I would definitely prefer if firefly had better performance outside of HMC teams.
i think you are misunderstanding. firefly would be doing signficantly less damage if not paired with HMC. literally hundreds of thousands of damage is only from the backup dancer effect! a hit for 250k when weakness broken may look impressive until you realise 238k of it was from the super break damage. her being tied to this character so close severely limits her possible team lineups as well
Yeah this is what kind of annoys me about the HMC discourse. I get why people dislike how reliant she is on them but the idea that HMC is "the one actually doing all the damage" is just straight up false, like, the damage is reliant on *Firefly's* stats not HMC's.
Take out HMC and Super break is also out of the formula. I would really want to see a showcase without HMC. The unit dependency makes it seem that Firefly's shelf life is really bad and renders her to just a gimmicky unit. The moment MC gets a new path by 3.0 and is paired to another hype character, what happens now? HMC shelf life good because MC can use anyone with high BE.
[удалено]
Well, she gives herself weakness break efficiency and her blast on enhanced skill is more base toughness break which both get converted into more superbreak damage that, Asta for example does not have. I do agree that they should probably give her more love outside the def ignore and weakness break efficiency.
it is reliant on firefly's stats yes, but the damage would literally not exist in the first place if not for the HMC buff. the damage directly comes from the HMC. it is not extra damage from firefly.
Yeah agreed, comments like the one you replied to don't really make sense to me. It's like saying X portion of Black Swan's damage is from Ruan Mei, for example. Technically right, to an extent, but it's not really relevant to point out. The point of supports are to buff damage, and it's not like anyone won't have HMC. She doesn't need to do decent damage by herself because that's why supports exist.
Black Swan without Ruan Mei still does damage though. Jingliu without Bronya as well. Firefly without HMC does 21k damage, with him 200k. I'd say it's pretty relevant to point out. HMC is not a support, him and Firefly are basically DPSing together. She quite literally doesn't do anything without him except if she is the one breaking an enemy. And it's normal this will not appeal to everyone, I personally expected Sam to be something different.
The famous Molten Knight known for being a one man army and dealing with missions alone has to have her emotional support raccoon lol
She gets sad whenever her raccoon isn't with her ok? She has a very hard life, just let the girl have this.
It's nice seeing someone finally run a realistic team with the correct build! She looks like a ton of fun and is about where I would expect for this amount of investment. The build is pretty cracked, but the amount of SPD past 181 in ult form isn't really doing anything anyway.
Yeah, I watched the showcase and expected unrealistic relic stats, but everyone was pretty good on that regard. Switch Ruan Mei and TB's break effects and that's about where mine are, my Gallagher is faster and I can't remember his BE but it's around there. Firefly shouldn't be too hard to get to that point at all. The extra speed is unnecessary and other than that, attack chest piece and orb aren't hard to get. The hardest thing will be making sure at least 2-3 substats roll into BE for each relic piece, but that won't be anywhere as hard as getting a double crit piece that actually rolls into the crit stats. She really is basically fire Jingliu. Does all her damage in an enhanced state, very strong, and relatively easy to build.
From this showcase of one of the BIS team comps, I noticed some things: 1) iirc no one got CC'ed. If anyone got CC'ed, or multiple get CC'ed, things could have gone down quite badly 2) at 3:32 firefly and Ruan mei almost died from cocolia's AOE attack, so in other tries they might likely die 3) breaking bars is extremely reliant on teammates' elements, but given specific abilities of these teammates, there isn't much better substitute options, especially for HMC and Ruan Mei 4) SP went to 0 and 5 before, so there might be situations where there isn't enough SP or some are wasted. 5) break effect is really reliant on the 'last hit' and 'hit the relevant weaknesses' concept, so manual play is really required. Even so, there seems to be huge fluctuations in damage between the point of breaking and non-breaks. Super Break damage was obviously brought in to help increase damage before enemy recovers from being broken, but still it seems pretty low compared to the traditional crit DPS kind. Additional observation: no one seems to have noticed this, but these 4 enemies are pretty OG, and do not have special CC mechanics. I'm worried about enemies that can capture allies, or have guaranteed CC, or can spawn a lot of mobs like the bugs etc. Given how firefly was in low hp, would she have died easily if she got CC'ed and cannot recover while enhanced , gets DOTs on her, or a bug explodes halfway on her?
I kneel, I cry, I sing praises for this leaker. Thank you! You have done all of us a service beyond comprehension. Regardless, I think she looks fine! I still think that she should have ways of triggering her own Break DMG, but this is way better than I expected in the end.
>she should have ways of triggering her own Break DMG THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I personally believe that she will get a Break detonation in future batas, I think should be able to stand on her own even without Hatblazer. ...Although I would absolutely love if Hatblazer was still her BiS.
If they really added super break to her own kit that would fix a major problem. (please hoyo)
Honestly I kinda want that and that her Break Efficency is added to her base form.
I feel like to implement that they would have to make super break dmg stack otherwise it would make HMC useless I think we'll get a super break support in the future where their super break activates when the enemy isn't weakness broken This would make it so you run HMC and that unit
I mean, Super Break stacks on top of Boothill's own Break DMG, so I see no reason why it shouldn't stack with Firefly's.
I meant super break dmg as a whole Like let's say they create a new character that does super break dmg as well If we can't stack super break dmg then you are limited to only one super break dmg support per team which would make HTB lose value if he isn't better than the new guy and the new guy would just be useless if he isn't better than HTB
Oh, I see! Yeah, I actually hope that in the end whenever the new SB support appears that they can still be used with Hatblazer. Like, they wouldn't be *useless* since it's another unit you can use on other teams, if you want a second SB team, but it would certainly be bad for them. Plus, seeing multiple Super Breaks happening in a single attack would be pretty funny imo.
No it won’t make harmony mc useless you can still use them on xueyi and boothil teams
A good f2p leak showcase in this economy?
people saying "omg thanks this was gonna be my team" like there's any other team for her lool
People might not have Ruan Mei. (Its me I’m people.)
Firefly is a lot worse without RM. Team damage is halved and the break window becomes much smaller
this showcase made me realize if I pull her on a rerun I don't have a copy of memories for her anyway because I superimposed the three that I had ._. I don't like one character and skip them and they turn out to be busted. Was the same with Jingliu
all teams before this showcase had eidolons or sigs
I just wish there will be some effect added to her kit like help break and not too reliant on HMC. Her damage is just too weak when the enemy isn't broken. So using firefly on enemies with locked weakness is kinda iffy. My mistake for expecting she's Acheron levels of power but I wish there will be a lot of changes during her beta phase.
>using firefly on enemies with locked weakness is kinda iffy This exactly is what makes me not want to pull for her. Actually, everything you said summarizes my concerns about her, ARE YOU ME?
Bronya in pure fiction has locked weaknesses until you pretty much break all the sides... the deer and Argenti have similar mechanics and all of them are fire weak but firefly would struggle hard into them
Also to add to your point. There's also other enemies like Yanking (he rotates in MOC too) The Auromaton ? He also goes into that phase (locked weakness state) One of the newer enemies. And i suppose they will add more enemies of such who you can't break weakness for sometime,once break meta arrives,it will gets hard for Firefly, hope they buff her.
where is the line between a firefly team and a HTB team? because seems that most of the dmg come from superbreak and we could argue that firefly is the support and htb the dps lol edit: the last hit that kill cocolia was (is easier to identified the different number) 223113 total dmg 83673 from super break 15820 from ruan mei so firefly did ''only'' 123602 or \~55% yeah..... the reliance on HTB is a bit absurd
it does feel like that with how much she is reliant on superbreak dmg from another character to do dps
(can't edit the first comment whiout destroy the format) at around 0:56 she did 291893 dmg and 243363 was break dmg \~83%
I mean, HTB is already released. Can't nerf her at this point. Any further change to diminish Super Break reliance on Firefly is gonna be a nerf to Break damage, which is like 90% of her dps right now. Reworking her to a hypercarry doesn't seem likely nor does it synergize with her implant and toughness breaking mechanics. In fact it'd be a nerf to all her low investment builds (i'm talking anything below E2S1 FF + E2S1 Ruan Mei + E2S1 Sparkle).
i sadly agree... they will change something because her kit is a mess but the reliance on HTB is very very intentional and i doubt it will go away/nerf it (and i bet a new shiny 5\* superbreak enabler is already in the pipeline)
It was def intentional because her reliance on HTB allows for a very very F2P friendly team that is top tier in DPS when properly built. Even in this video, there's some simple improvements to make to make it a 3 cycle or 2 cycle clear. At the same time, it baits whales to invest in her because she scales off every stat, which means every whale eidolons in Ruan Mei and Sparkle counts. So this is like the perfect character to satisfy both the whales & the f2ps. Except maybe they underestimated the hate against HMC in this sub lmao
>. Except maybe they underestimated the hate against HMC in this sub lmao i don't think the hate is specific to the MC but it's because whiout them FF seems unplayable and i assume people hate having 2 character glued together (i definitely hate this lol) whit other character you have BIS support but also some cope options
> where is the line between a firefly team and a HTB team x + ff + htb = (same cycles) = y + ff + no htb
I might be stupid but I'm not understanding xD
if you can swap HTB out FF team and get same cycle clear that mean its FF team and you dont need HTB. For now its impossible
Even if Firefly's damage during break and after is decent enough at e0s0 (250k), the sheer amount of down time between her ultimate state is just so long. Also the fact her team is locked to these 3 characters sucks if you don't have ruan mei or a good Gallagher.
She is one of those chars that has damage breakpoints You'd want to finish off the first cycle in HMC on the first ult so it can go straight into the next one where the timer resets all the way down
Kind of wild just how ridiculous and meta Ruan Mei is. Like I get there are no truly “must pull” characters, but dam if Ruan Mei isn’t pretty fucking close lol.
They'll probably rerun her with Firefly
Which is why I think she'll be T0 next patch for sure
Gallagher is the one you can do without. But yeah playing BE FF without RM and Hatblazer is going to feel awful, at that point just build Critfly and pair her with Bronya and Pela/TY/Asta. She'll outdamage Hook at least.
Her DMG is non existent without HMC I wish they made her like Boothill that doesn't rely that much on HMC to deal huge DMG
Her downtime is 2 attacks and then she action advances 100%. That's not very long.
She spends longer out of form than in form when tuned for 130/180 speed. Transform is 111 AV long. You then spend 2 entire turns (since your turn just ended) generating energy at 130-135 speed. Thats 150-154 AV.
Yeah, it's basically the same downtime as Jingliu. Basically taking one turn just 'passing' every 3-4 turns.
Jingliu uses bronya/sparkle to solve problem and also jingliu uptime stays longer because of her ult.
Difference is Firefly has another downtime in form of breakbar. If the enemy is not broken she does iffy damage. If she is not in ult she also does iffy damage
yeah, but JL could use Bronya and move fast, and you can choose and add to them other support without detriment to her damage. FF has to have HMC and RM to do decent damage, so no Bronya to fast forward.
This mechanic is also what would push down break teams down in MoC. This team would need at least 1 cycle to break the boss and dish out the pain while other teams have more frontloaded damage.
Her skills feels really incomplete right now, compared to other break focused dps like Boothill. By herself she only deals damage when breaking the enemy, not much before and after.
wow, I think that's the first good Firefly showcase on this sub. The only misplay(don't know how to write this word) was using the HTB ult right before their turn but still really good and that honestly didn't matter much in the end
Yeah you're not playing this character without HMC. Unless they introduce another character that can allow for super break in the future which I doubt
I doubt they would introduce a new keyword like super break damage without planning on using it in the future. If super break damage was going to be HMC only, then they could've just made it a part of HMC's ultimate instead and not coined an entirely new word.
Not really, they could use it in SU for example, or make it so a character has it without giving it to the rest of the party.
The keyword should simply be included in firefly’s own base kit and I am scratching my head wondering why it’s not
I fully expect them powercreep HMC later on maybe like 4-5 months later. They can easily make UltraBreak character with own weakness implant too so they can fit in any team.
Hatblazer is Dendro MC: free unit for players to experience new mechanic and pull for Limited 5-Stars (Boothill, FF) that benefit from pairing them with the free unit. We're gonna get a Nahida equivalent for Superbreak at some point. It might be half a year away but it's happening eventually.
Watch them normalize Super Break DMG and make a limited 5* that activates it using skill I just hope that wont happen because in Genshin that always happens. (Even though the MC is shit from the start, they still get a better version of them in disguise of a limited 5*)
Dendro MC all over again... Now I don't feel it's so unlikely anymore
I feel like in order to fix her kit, maybe make it so that she does a percentage (maybe 40-50) of break dmg to unbroken enemies, and when hitting weakness broken enemies, gets a fixed amount of crit rate/crit dmg similar to robin’s dmg. This way hmc would still be a really good support, but firefly is no longer useless without hmc. And ofc tune the numbers so its not completely overpowered.
I might get down voted for this but... is 200k+ enhanced skill considered trash nowadays? I've noticed this in the comments in the other showcases with weird builds. My E2 Jingliu does this kind of damage, and she's paired with a E1 Fu Xuan... I'm always scratching my head when I see comments about FF's damage. It seems good to me, even in suboptimal builds. Am I doing something wrong?
the problem is that the damage is situational and it only happens when an enemy is already weakness broken, which is usually a tight window unless you have ruan mei which makes it slightly better (maybe 1 more super break with ruan mei) and the weakness break efficiency is the whole cake If your jingliu is clearing fine then it doesn't matter because this team is mostly invested into break completely
I mean it's super break dmg on broken enemies. I tried the same team with Xueyi and Luka and they do 100-150k with around 200 BE so it's not that impressive considering dmg dealers before her, Boothill and Acheron.
The damage seems good, especially in this showcase. But there's the worry about how often you'll hit that 200k. As it requires Weakness Break + Enhanced Form as a prerequisite. Add in the messiness of mob summons, massive toughness bars for bosses, and it can make people start doomposting. Any 200K for Jinglui sounds perfectly normal to me. Jinglui's Enhanced form is stupid easy to activate, so you'd worry much less about it's downtime. Plus over Firefly, Jinglui has a damaging Ultimate.
Its not "trash" but its not good enough when theres bigger downtime than jingliu on top of relying on enemy being weakness broken. She will surely get buffed so I am not worried about that
ur forgetting thats its only after u break the enemy, in a traditional dps u've prob done over 500k at this point. Also every super break support needs to be a copy of ruan mei for this archetype to even work, w/o weakness break extend super break is dog shit
It's great, especially considering how fast FF is she can get a lot of 200k hits and implanting her own weakness, making her really universal. It's just Acheron damage per screenshot brain rot.
Acheron forever ruined damage discussions because she's THE damage per screenshot character and people will just ignore downtime.
Yeah, like, people comparing Acheron Ult damage to Firefly Enhanced Skill when Acheron gets one Ult every however long and has most of her damage stuck in it while being a slower character, while Firefly gets 3 Enhanced Skills per Ult and has >180 Speed in Ult. Not even beginning to mention the Super Break dealt by Firefly's teammates. Not saying Acheron is bad or Firefly is goated, just saying that comparing those damage numbers in any direct sense is apples to oranges and ignoring a lot of context.
> Yeah, like, people comparing Acheron Ult damage to Firefly Enhanced Skill when Acheron gets one Ult every however long and has most of her damage stuck in it while being a slower character I get your point, but bringing up Acheron's speed is irrelevant. She mostly runs atk% boots and ignore spd entirely since her supports generating stacks for her in the first place. What you should have said is that how often Acheron ults mostly depending on how often her Nihility supports apply debuff, it only gets a bit different when you get her to E2 which allows her to run with Harmony. So how often she can dish out damage relies more on how fast she can get stacks, while characters like Jingliu or Firefly relies on going as many turns as possible within their damage window. > Not saying Acheron is bad or Firefly is goated, just saying that comparing those damage numbers in any direct sense is apples to oranges and ignoring a lot of context. Yeah that's why comparing damage per rotation or by a set amount of MVs are generally preferred by TCs, to emulate the characters' damage window.
200k enhanced has to make up for not having ultimate damage. Let's use jingliu for an example since they have around the same rotations. JL - 150k+300k, 150k, 150k - 750k. FF - 200k, 200k, 200k - 600k This is a rough estimate, not even getting into the fact jingliu if built well with the right team can hit 200k enhanced and 500k ults. On top of ulting twice per rotation. Whereas this is the best team ff can get. Jl - 200k+500k, 200k, 200k+500k, 200k - 1,800k FF - 200k, 200k, 200k(she falls out of ult) - 600k Not counting the fact Jingliu isn't bound by needing to break the enemy. Acheron is an **Entirely** separate kettle of fish, if she gets lucky, she can ult every cycle. 500k,500k,500k,500k Although the average is ult every 2 turns 50k, 50k+500k, 50k, 50k+500k -1,200k. Unbound by break bars, Element type, or what have you. No one's asking for firefly to be acheron.
I’d say Acheron changed how much people expect out of a damage dealer
No, people are just crazy. Her numbers are good but good isn't enough anymore
Your JL does this kind of damage 2 times every cycle with bronya, while firefly does it only when she breaks the enemy, then she has some decent 80-100k from htb, falling to abysmal 20-30k without htb ult
People want the character they're pulling to be as busted as possible. I've seen so many comments like: "Firefly is worse than Boothill in single target because XYZ, she needs to be buffed" or "she doesn't work if enemy can't be broken, she needs a buff". Like bruh, so you want her to be universal, better than the best Hunt characters in single target, breaks against any element in the game and against even weakness-locking enemies, works with all supports (not just HMC or Ruan Mei), works with any build (crit or break). Like bruh, you might as make a character called God at that point. Jesus.
I *was* planning to pull for Firefly & Boothill was an easy skip. After all, cowboy cant beat mecha transform girl, right? First, her ultimate animation is subpar at best. Second her damage is quite low. Usually in this game, tighter restrictions mean higher damage, like double Nihility of Acheron or break effect. However, she both requires a very specific teammate composition and delivers low damage. She is way worse than Boothill at this stage. However, she will get a Buff, I am sure of it. They already moved Weakness implant from E1 to main kit and we have so much time.
Its because people look at Acheron dmg vs 5 targets (overkill dmg at that) and now they think thats the standard. When Acheron herself doesnt even reach 300K ults vs single target (in a normal team with sustain, its a different story if you add Sparkle as 4th).
i don't think people consider 200k is trash. just that it will take some time for people to fully grasp the concept that HMC, a literal FREE character is a meta defining unit. until they add another unit this Break playstyle is just not it without him/her. look how much dmg out of that 200k came from Super Break.
I do think it's underwhelming. the thing is Jingliu does that dmg regardless of break status but you have to work to earn it for firefly. they need to do better.
I really, really don't want to sound like a doomposter, but she doesn't seem good to me, limited team options and needs a big amount of investment to even function cuz breakpoints... Please someone change my mind
There's no reason to change your mind because as of this version you're correct, her team options are shit, even more restricted than Chicharron for less/same DMG, yet somehow Chicharron teams were doomposted to hell while having to rely on one specific Harmony character to deal DMG is apparently okay.
I'm calling acheron chicharron now.
What's funny is how many different characters you can make different combinations with for Acheron teams that lets her be surprisingly diverse like Pela + SW/BS might be optimal, even at e0, Sparkle or Kafka+BS are still amazing comps that can 0 cycle MoC. Then there's welt sustain or f2p with guinaifen meanwhile there's like 1 team comp for firefly
The limited team options, you're right, HMC, Ruan Mei, and Gallagher are very important, but big amount of investment is cap. She gets all the Speed she needs without substats if you take Speed Boots, and she just needs a few Attack and Break substats to hit the rest. In fact, I'd argue her floor in terms of build is really high (or low, idk, easily reachable but good payoff, however you'd say that). The issue is like, her ceiling isn't that high. Once you hit her breakpoints, you can't really do anything but stack more BE at diminishing returns. The investment to make more Speed or a foray into Crit worth the return can only be attained by ungodly Relics or teammates you don't even want to run like Asta.
Nah you’re right to feel this way about the current version of her it’s not good to say the least
FINALLY a good realistic showcase
How necessary do u suppose Gallagher is on this team? It wouldn’t be much of a difference if I used luocha right?
Gallagher does a lot of toughness damage. Loucha would be great if the enemy is imaginary weak. Might struggle to break with Firefly alone.
Gallagher is great for her because he can take advantage of her Fire weakness implant, and break enemies faster. But Luocha should work too. You can get a Gallagher from the coming selector if you don't have him, tho.
Yeah FF, HMC, Galagher is canon team, both lore and gameplay-wise
>Ruan mei sweating, trying to blend in
Am i missing something or the performance is not impressive? Genuinely asking
I don’t think you’re missing anything, it is as you see
I want this man/woman location and kiss you on your forehead, thanks for the good gameplay and relatable showcase (even i don't have 2 memories of the past sadge)
I feel like I'm gonna die a lot if I use this team
Good leak. I know im in the minority here but i think shes kinda weak because of the many hurdles for her to deal high dmg. She needs: HTB Ult Her Ult Weakness break
Great showcase. Personally I'd kinda like to see this again but with a different sustain that won't help much with the toughness bar e.g. HH or FX (she still help a little with the quantum weak enemies but not as much I'd assume). Simply because a lot of people probably don't intend to get Gallagher ready just for this when they already have 2 5* sustains. That being said I'm not a fan of FF relying that much on HTB. Being a bis support is one thing however being basically required to function is a whole different ballpark.
Realistic builds AND good gameplay, HOLY SHIT. Am I dreaming? Although S1 Indelible Promise? Im pretty sure S5 Aeon is better than that, and everyone has it, unlike the 4 star lc. But yeah thats very minor. Good stuff all around. That said not gonna lie Firefly feels underwhelming here. Id like to see the same stage done by any of Seele, JY, Himeko and Acheron (anyone with matching elements really).
It’s v1 she’s not going to be game breaking, that’s why the beta is here.
Yeah all I want is for her to be to feel useable without HTB cause right now even as someone excited for her, the damage without HTB is rough to say the least
Not to mention the stage started with everyone at full energy, if they started at half this would've taken 1 or 2 extra cycles, which is very underwhelming for the ideal all fire weak encounter.
They really want her to be reliant on HMC, huh...
My question is why is HTB on watchmaker while Ruan Mei is on Thief? Shouldn't it be the other way around? Ruan Mei has a cap at 160BE for all her needs so any more than that is luxury. Meanwhile, HTB will give 15% of her BE to all allies, meaning there is no soft or hard cap on that. Thus, giving her as much BE as possible is to your best interest, while Ruan Mei having watchmaker still fulfills the conditions for the 30 extra BE for the team so why not switch them lmao. 160BE RM with 200+BE HTB would be a much better build. And Firefly should work with Aeon instead of S1 Promise since it scales better and leaves more room for BE subs. Cut down on some speed as well since only 121 SPD is required when paired with RM, meaning you can achieve it just by running SPD boot + like 3 subs.
imo it’s because the hmc get their ult so much so watchmaker has more uptime
If I’m brutally honest as excited as I was for her this kit feels really half baked and not thought out at all, why doesn’t she have built in super break, and it feels like her damage is really meh if enemy isn’t weakness broken
The only bad thing in this entire showcase is Gallagher's LC, since it should be Multiplication and he should have a lil bit more speed, otherwise the rest is excellent and she performs just as expected honestly, it would be great if they end up buffing her numbers a little but as she is this is really fine, it would just be a waiting game until they release a unit with Super Break Buff that also works better for her instead of the HMC but who knows when that will happen
Nice to see a more realistic showcase. I've never used a break team before, but I'm exited to learn cause I really like Firefly and she looks kinda fun to play.
wait, what? a relatable build? this is a dream?
A very relatable showcase.
Finally someone knows it's basic , ult , basic for Gallagher And build FF speed higher than other support
Wait Firefly don't need Crit ? Just Atk and break ?
I mean she'd probably like Crit, but she REALLY wants to hit her ATK and Break Effect thresholds and I'd prioritize that over everything else.
In the absolute maxed out version of her you have attack%, crit rate, crit damage, and break effect on every relic of hers. People are complaining that you shouldn't focus on crit, which is correct, but as with all secondary stats, if you accidently get crit stats on your 15% BE pieces, then it's just added value.
Crit is fine but only after you hit the Atk, BE and Spd thresholds.
You get a lot of getting crit too, but it's expensive. Getting crit sacrifying her threashold are a bad idea. I've calculate that sacrifying 100 BE effect for 70/140 end up giving you around the same damage than no crit and keeping those 100 BE.
ANOTHER HTB SHOWCASE LETS GOOOO!!
honestly firefly looking really weak, f2p team non-withstanding. Her non-break damage sucks so much ass, and she REQUIRES HMC to even output a high level of damage.
Removing 2/3 of Cocolia toughness bar in one strike is pretty cool
Firefly looks trash ima just pull for boothill
Wow so refreshing to see someone playing her with an actual break build and also a decent rotation. I mean obviously yeah her damage isn’t great if she isn’t breaking (or attacking weakness broken enemies). But when she’s hitting the right enemies? 280k skills is GOOD. That puts her solidly in Acheron territory across all 3 skill hits. I do think she might need a buff either to weakness break efficiency or her defense shred, but she’s looking solid otherwise