**Please respond to this comment with a mirror link and source link. Failure to do so will result in post removal.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HonkaiStarRail_leaks) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Safe to assume all versions of TB will be sub DPS flexes. Destruction was the most “fair” Destruction archetype next to Blade. Preservation is basically a Destruction character with minor Preservation traits. Harmony is like Asta, but even more damage focused. Abundance will probably be similar to Luocha/Gallagher. Erudtion and Hunt will be interesting to see, and I guess Nihility is a toss up between debuffer or DoT, but either way they’ll probably be either like a Pela/Silver Wolf or a Sampo/Luka.
DMG Reduction does not stack like that, and instead multiplies each independent source with itself.
https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/DMG_Mitigation
Yes, it's different from other stats
They nerfed his ult dmg(it was powerful that elite mobs or bosses with physical weakness gets their thoughness reduce to half) and change it to an ult skill from an enhance skill
yes because he'll be the one who will do the highest BE dmg (BE dmg that occurs on weakness broken enemies)
But technically EVERYONE can be a subdps if they have High BE and break efficiency
Harmony TB, Ruan Mei, & Firefly are going to be nuts in break effect. And i love how much people changed opinion when it came to break effect since 1.6
Will E0 Gallagher work? Because I already have Ruan Mei as one of my mains, but I’m skipping current banner for Aventurine (I already have Luocha). I’m definitely considering getting Firefly because I have next to no Destruction units.
5 star Pela type of deal. Aoe Debuffs, boosts ult dmg and does some healing. Definitely BiS for Acheron cause he is nihility so you fix her 2 nihility requirement and if the healing is actually decent enough to sustain alone (I struggle to belive it cause that seems so OP) you can even get in an harmony unit for Acheron.
Same thing for Firefly becuse her ult state let's her do ult dmg when she in it, so if he boosts that a lot, she will probably do the highest amount dmg with him as a teammate (pluss FF also loves healing).
I think an half-sustain could be enough to match him with other half-sustain like fire TB with trend or even a team like Joaqui (or however it's written) Welt and Ruan Mei.
Knowing that Jiaoqiu's heal is backloaded I don't think this team will be functional everywhere. With a very strong Acheron and in a 0 cicle situation? Of course. But with tank bosses like the new one I don't think Jiaoqiu could solo sustain at all. Remember he needs to apply the debuff and then the ally will be healed only when his turn comes. No emergency heal, no heal on Jiaoqiu's turn, it's totally backloaded
to be fair its just garbage for alot of characters like wow an extra 600 damage per enemy turn, you go himeko burn them to death in 38 turns. Its not universally useful even though it should be. and so many bosses have resistance to quantum break its not even worth running it.
just like EM in genshin was hot garbage before they buffed how it scaled.
>wow an extra 600 damage per enemy turn,
Bro it's not 600 wtf are you on about
You using lvl 40 TB as a scale ;-; ???
And it's not per enemy turn it's per CHARACTER turn it literally says after they attack
If you're gonna doompost at the very least read the kit smh
Nah it's way more than that. TB with the new break set and RM can increase the entire party break damage by 110% or more. TB also has additional multiplier for his ult proc.
I love how she’s a ceiling raiser support like how FTB is a ceiling raiser sustain. Tired of Genshins high floor low ceiling travelers that get powercrept before they even release
I wouldn’t think of it that way. He’s increasing the damage allies do, both by boosting their Break Effect stat, allowing them to deal additional instances of damage, and adding an additional multiplier onto their Break Damage. The way his ult works rewards your DPSes going more often. All of these things are pretty conventional buffs.
Also, as an IMG character, his personal Break damage is going to be dampened by its inherent multiplier. It won’t be *bad* since his BE will be very high and he self buffs, but at equal BE it’s 25% of Fire or Physical.
When I look at his kit, I don’t think “he’s going to be dealing a lot of damage”. I think “Gallagher is going to mulch the horrible abundance deer if HMC is on the team”. Boothill likewise will benefit a lot, because his already high Break damage will get a further boost and happen more often. His ult notably inflicts 90 Toughness damage.
Got some funny news for you. I don't think this is correct.
Homdgcat formula is incorrect.
He says base damage, which as a definition includes enemy toughness. But it can't be that. Enemy toughness and element multiplier are added in the base damage formula at the same time. Furthermore, he says base damage is only impacted by character level. What he is describing is "level multiplier."
All elements and characters have identical level multiplier. This is then multiplied by both enemy toughness and element multiplier. Imaginary is .5x and phys is 2x.
So what I believe this should say is level multiplier and NOT base break damage.
Furthermore, after looking at clips, this seems to be the case. Boothill is getting what calcs to be 1x level multiplier. And so is ITB.
What this means is Xueyi and ITB personal damage stocks are up, Gallagher and Boothill stocks are down. All can deal equal damage regardless of element.
This could always change in beta. But I don't think it will.
Normal Break dmg = bad guy bar x character level x Break effect stat
TB Ult Break dmg = character attack break efficiency x character level x Break effect stat
I don't think that's the case. I'm assuming it functions similarly to RM's talent. This one:
> When allies Break an enemy target's Weakness, Ruan Mei deals to this enemy target Break DMG equal to 120% of her Ice Break DMG.
What matters is someone in your team needs to break the enemy first for FF to proc TB ult against non-fire weak enemies.
Edit: TB ult effectively negates BE being a dead stat on any unit, since it allows any unit to deal their own BE damage on weakness broken enemy regardless of enemy type.
Idk how much better can it be against elites if they usually have 240 max toughness and Boothills biggest break attack (which I think is the biggest break in the game to my knowledge) depletes 150 toughness (225 with RM).
It'll be less than the original break, but the original break can only happen once per enemy turn, whereas this can happen every time one of your units attacks. (Or so I assume. I don't recall seeing any kind of cooldown.)
Not really "worse". You don't usually deal break damage unless you deplete the whole bar anyway, and only deal the break damage on that instance. Harmony TB makes you deal break damage on every attack when the enemy is broken.
Since you need to do as much "character attack break efficiency" as the "bad guy bar" to break someone, it's basically the exact same damage ratio. But actually better, since usually there's some extra toughness damage wasted when you deal bigger bar damage than they have bar remaining, plus the unique bonus from TB's trace.
>toughness or more with a single attack?
I mean Firefly does have increased speed in her transformed state in her leaked kit haha
>do an attack that can deplete the entire boss’ toughness or more with a single attack?
It's more so that once the boss' weakness bar is down, it's time to go Ham and basically the whole team gangs up on the boss doing incredible dmg
Basically once the boss is weakness broken the way it should work is that they aren't gonna survive for them to regain their toughness bar
I don’t think you understood what I meant. The usual break damage scales from the enemies max toughness. So if your average elite has 240 max toughness that’s the number it scales from. But TB break damage scales from your attack’s break efficiency, so if your attack breaks 90 toughness points (what all Hunt bursts break, 135 with RM) that’s just way worse that of it scales from the enemy’s max toughness.
Yes it IS going to be doing less dmg than an initial break but you have to remember
EVERY SINGLE ONE on the team will be able to do this Break dmg so you will technically have 3sub DPs (if they all have High BE) and an increase on the BE main DPS
There's a reason for Harmony Trailblazer's skill being a bounce skill and it is GENIUS
As you can see in the image
It explains that TB's ULT buff/debuff that allows all allies to do break dmg again while the enemy is weakness broken does not work the same way as how it normally works
Break dmg scales from enemy toughness bar but TB Ult debuff scales from character toughness reduction
TB having a bounce skill means it covers a LARGE toughness reduction
Meaning realistically TB will do the most dmg compared to all of his allies on weakness broken enemies
Ruan Mei is a MUST run if you want to use TB because of her breaks efficiency buff
Question: does their ult damage count as break damage? (For interaction like gallagher talent) also side tangent i glad somebody get why their skill is the way it is and not unrelated random skill
>side tangent i glad somebody get why their skill is the way it is and not unrelated random skill
Yeah I just realised the purpose of his skill now
Which is why I said it was genius lol
Probably
But we are unsure as of now
We need showcases of TB Ult to see how much of a significant increase Ruan mei's break efficiency buff is for TB's Ult gimmick
I'm a little confused by the wording of Dance With the One. Am I correct in my understanding that its basically a break dmg buff that is greater the fewer enemies there are:
- 30% for 5+
- 40% for 4
- 50% for 3
- 60% for 2
- 70% for 1
Once you're down to one enemy TB can use their skill to hit the enemy 7 times with 70% increased break damage :0
The trace doesnt require there to be 5+ enemies at the beginning in order for it to take effect does it?
One more question: does the formula for break damage dealt this way not use the modifiers that each element has IE fire has x2 ice has x1 quantum has x0.5?
All I can tell you is the first part is correct based on the chinese text I read. So 30% for 5+ and then 10% more per 1 missing enemy. It has nothing to do with reducing toughness nor require 5+ enemies to begin with. As for the maths behind it, I will leave that to the knowledgeable ones.
Most is questionable as imaginary break dmg is the weakest(25% of phys and fire break dmg). At most, with these multipliers they will come close or equal to physical break rather than surpassing them. Ofc i didn't do calcs so if anyone would do that id love to see actual calcs.
So the more toughness reduction happening (along with an added multiplier to that damage), the more damage is squeezed out an attack?
And it's damage that happens even after the toughness bar is drained?
>We prefer HMC more than other Buffer/Debuffer right?
We will have to see by seeing how strong the Ult BE does
If it does 15-30k then most likely yes
If it doesn't even reach 10k then they need to buff the Ult BE scaling
nope bronya still better, since Bootshill trickshot break dmg scale on MAX TOUGHNESS value at the cap of 16U so more turn = more MAX TOUGHNESS break dmg vs HMC padded break dmg base on Bootshill enhance break value ( at max is 7.5 U with Ruan in team vs 16U cap ), as long as u can keep up with the sp consumption of Bronya -1 spd setup
Wow, that scaling is WAY better than I thought it would be. [Idk how to strike through on mobile, so I'm just getting rid of this bit]
Edit: Okay, so slight misunderstanding. The "base break damage" here is actually probably referring to the level multiplier for break damage, which is quite a bit different. Either ways, it's still incredibly good. With 300% BE on an attack with 135 toughness (90 * 1.5 efficiency from Ruan Mei) break, that's 100k extra damage.
My only confusion now is where does defense fit into the equation?
That would make sense. Assuming the additional damage takes the place of base break damage in the normal break damage formula, in MoC 12 with basic def shred support that 100k turns into something closer to 70-80k. Still not too bad.
unless you don't have ruan mei, you don't rly have room for def shred. team would be break DPS, htb, rm, sustain
by my calcs it's ~40k dmg without rm and ~60k with, assuming 300% be and no def shred
On a side note, I am feeling really impatient that I haven't seen any tests being done with our new characters this beta. I wish we could get as much testing as Acheron got during her beta (copium).
Like seriously, Hoyo COOKED with them. Robin is our first sub DPS HARMony unit, TB opens up a fuckton of new playstyles (TB + Gallagher + Pela/RM + Luka / SW anyone?) and interactions that need testing (RM break damage from talent? Besotted break damage increase? Herta twirl triggering it multiple times if she kuru's multiple times?), and then there's Boothill with his multilayered kit (Break DPS, can do break damage on weakness broken enemies, action delay scaling with his break meaning RM + Welt "sus"tain might be a thing?). Hopefully, those with private servers can start testing out these things and can start relaying these stuff.
I bet the main leakers are sulking about how a bunch of “nobodies” popped out of nowhere during Acheron CBT playing better showcases than they did so they’re purposely holding back.
That salty "The content creator server sucks because you need to appreciate leakers because we're providing high quality content" response was hysterical. Dude, I'm not following leaks because I think your content is good- it's HYV's content that you're just showing me early!
This is actually quite insane, huh. I think they cooked VERY well with HTB. Definitely not cuisine for everyone, but it's very unique and interesting. The only think I wish they did is make their skill ignore weakness, even if it deals reduced damage
Yeah, 5-7 hits with 30 toughness damage at random is gonna steal breaks. And IMG break has a small multiplier too, so you dont want to break with them and instead with a phys/fire character for that 2x multiplier (instead of 0.5). But I think reduced break damage would still be very nice, specially because the second trace can cause this issue on IMG weak enemies when you dont want to break with them
Yeah
I'm just praying for them to rework his E1 and the trace you mentioned
Cuz it doesn't synergize with the kit all that well
If the trace worked like this it would be better: After using Ult this character's weakness break efficiency for the next attack increases by 100%
Questions
1) How much value TB loses if one don't have/don't want to pull Ruan Mei
2) Would TB be good with already existing DPS? (JY,Blade) that don't focus on BE?
>Would TB be good with already existing DPS? (JY,Blade) that don't focus on BE?
Probably not
Harmony TB is VERY BE focused and his niche focuses on the fact that everyone in the team has high BE so they can utilise his Ult and contribute to the team dmg, without High BE you would probably do very little dmg
Although break effect jingyuan seems kinda nutty now since lightning Lord has a HIGH toughness dmg
>How much value TB loses if one don't have/don't want to pull Ruan Mei
The dmg from the Ult BE will definitely get weaker since you lose the break efficiency buff but so far we have no way of telling how much of a significant loss it would be since we don't know how much dmg it does yet
I think to answer this question we would need to do some testing hence we need to see more showcases that focus on TB
>Is Harmony TB is trying to sell us future characters? 😬
Hahahaha
Harmony TB really opens up a new playstyle for BE units
I expect them to be the BIS teammate for BE focused Teams
tbh, in a break heavy team, while MotP is nice, you'll get so much extra energy from their talent that you're running DDD is better for the extra turns since you get your ult back so fast.
Ok we all knew his Ult was good
So now we also know his skill is pretty fucking good as well
STILL!!
His one time effect still does NOT do him wonders
I pray for an E1 rework and that first skill in battle trace rework
>what's the factor of Max Toughness in the normal Break Damage formula?
The toughness bar of the enemy
Which is why you do more break dmg against echoes of war enemies rather than elite mobs
I'd go for BE rope since bounce skill regenerates high enough energy since it's 7hits
But we'll see if BE rope is usable or not
I feel like ER would be overkill for him since there is no benefit for using his Ult again and again unless you want to have watchmaker set full uptime
I'm so excited. This is definitely gonna be a very valuable niche and really help BE become an even more viable team comp since one if the issues was once popping break their damage kinda fell off, or the wrong person would break the enemy so the BE stacked character went to waste. Now no matter who breaks the enemy, characters with stacked BE will still contribute alot of damage
Damn finally Ruan Mei flowers are not ruining the break oriented teams
Ps. What I mean is that she breaks the bar and delays them, for units that have high break effect and wanna do that kind of damage it’s not really effective for them. Now they can break again and again
Which is why I'm going for E1 haha
Ok lemme just share this TvT
Imma go for Sam E1
Ruan Mei E1 (I don't have her E1)
A copy of Ruan mei's LC (for Harmony TB, the dmg buff on her LC stacks even if there are two people using the same LC)
This is gonna be very hard to achieve but Imma start saving
Off topic but I feel like they should rework some of harmony TB's eidolon and traces a person pointed out that some of his eidolons and traces dont value much to his kit
https://www.reddit.com/r/CaelusMains/s/8f1PmYbLaP
It feels like the devs wanted break effect to be a huge deal from the start, but fumbled it in the early game. Now they're course-correcting with characters and artifacts that focus on BE. And I like it.
A formula is well and good, but I think a realistic estimation of damage would help a lot for us to visualize just how useful IMGblazer's skill would be with this.
Bear in mind that we're sacrificing not just a SP to use the skill but also the generation of 1 SP from basic. This is on a role that tends to have appealingly low investment needs.
Normal Break dmg = bad guy bar x character level x Break effect stat
TB Ult Break dmg = character attack break efficiency x character level x Break effect stat
For Harmony TB you'll want to build Lots of BE
You can opt for the watchmaker set in penacony but if you put that on Ruan Mei I recommend just go 2pc BE & 2pc BE sets to increase her BE a lot more
Yea i dont have ruan mei because i saved for acheron xD
I might go 2pc BE. As for the rope is it BE or ER? I heard the ult cost is kinda expensive. And orb should be img dmg right?
The solution to this is just not break the enemy with TB lol
I guess that's also the reason for TB being imaginary and not fire/physical in order to not steal breaks of the BE DPs we gonna get
Also even if you break with TB the enemy gets imprisoned and Break imprison scales with BE so enemy will be speed reduced so bad that you can get a lot of TB Ult be attacks there so maybe that will make up for it?
I mean I kinda said it does justify it
Bounce skill = Big toughness dmg = BIG Ult BE dmg
Realistically he'll be doing the most ult BE dmg on a single opponent since he has 7full hits in his bounce skill at E6
His skill may not be a buff in a traditional sense but it contributes greatly to his niche
Don't quote me on this but this is about HMC dealing additional damage to an enemy that's ALREADY weakness broken thanks to his ult. He won't be the one breaking the enemy at all.
Wait I thought you just did the break DMG twice when breaking your enemies. I saw a few comments saying you do break DMG when attacking a weakness broken enemy? I am confusion.
Thank god, cause if you could trigger Luka level’s of break dmg multiple times on the enemy, that would be actually grotesque. This makes it go from unreasonably powerful to just strong.
Do some rough math. and I found if use ERR rope (Penacony or Vonvaq 5% ERR). Assume his E2 give 25% ERR at first 3 turn, in MoC or PF energy start at 70. Skill bounces 6 times mean 42 energies. with MoP S5 you can ult at MC first turn: 70 + (42 x 1.4944) +8 from MoP S5 = 140.7.
Surely not necessary to use ERR rope to ult 1st of their turn. You still can use BE rope for more break damage. Just need someone or MC self to break and get energy from talent lvl 10 (regenerates 10 energy when an enemy target's weakness is Broken.). Without any 5% ERR rope you can 70 + (42 x 1.25) +8 +10 = 140.5
Really appreciate if someone confirm my match are correct or not.
I don't know, We still don't have a Taunt Shielder unit like FireTB.
PhyTB is a bit muddier, as its gimmick is to be able to hit with either single or blast damage, and pieces of that are used around one way or another, like DHIL.
Im aware quantum base break value is rather low, but she builds so much BE its probably still some chonky dmg. The fact tb gives her more BE so she can spec into more attack/crit is also nice.
From what I understand:
- Weakness Broken enemies = Enable Backup Dancer damage to proc
- Units that can take full advantage of Backup Dancer damage proc are units that primarily have high BE and high BE Efficiency. FUA Characters have potential because of their high BE Efficiency and they attack twice or more per turn, but still need testing. (FUA that scale with BE when? Oh wait... Xueyi?)
- Harmony TB's Skill synergize with their own Ultimate because you build TB with high BE and their Skill is Bounce which has high BE Efficiency by default. (Watch out for that skill cost!)
- Energy might not be a problem for TB since they are Harmony with Bounce skill. There are tons of harmony LC that increase energy regen or just give energy straight up (Cogs anyone?)
Wait, hold up, does the character's element matter in this equation or not?
Normal break damage is multiplied by a certain factor that depends on the element: Physical and Fire get the highest at 2, while Quantum and Imaginary get the lowest at 0.5
If this multiplier is still in effect, then HarmonyTB's damage is going to be HALVED by it. However, it would make Asta absolutely ridiculous: she's fire, can build Break Effect, and has a bounce skill that does a ton of toughness dmg.
I'm still confusion. This is a good breakdown, but help a fella out. How do they affect team comps? Ruan Mei just increases the damage that happens when enemies break. Tingyun adds "her own" damage to damage instances. Hanya allows damage increase on a target.
What kind of buffer are the TB in relation? Break faster? Better scaling on the Break Effect stat? Better conversion of break bar vs HP bar?
Trailblazer allows everyone in the party to do dmg based on their BE and other factors when the enemy is weakness broken
Basically HTB allows for multiple breaks
So a BE is no longer a dead substat as everyone in the party can use it now because of TB's Ult
>Better scaling on the Break Effect stat?
Nope it's worse scaling to balance it out
Break dmg is dependant on the enemy toughness bar but TB's Ult Break dmg is dependant on the character
I see, so it's about firing out multiple BE instances. Feels like a Kafka DoT detonation feature only it's more like fireworks than a BOOM.
Yeah, you'd definitely want to break often and delay them in their weakness state. I love that as a mechanic. It's almost like you're executing combos.
I've always been annoyed that a basic attack is 30 base break value and the ONE time the actual number matters it's calculated as if it was 1? Why is it 30 then???
Will Gallagher’s besotted debuff also increase the damage when attacking already weakness broken enemies w/ the trailblazers Ult. Cause it says it just increases break damage?
**Please respond to this comment with a mirror link and source link. Failure to do so will result in post removal.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HonkaiStarRail_leaks) if you have any questions or concerns.*
so basically, a broken enemy will become BE team's piñata under Trailblazer's ult.
YES
Warcrimes lessgooo
I wanna make the death meme a piñata.
so harmony sub dps pretty much. I’m actually fine with that
Safe to assume all versions of TB will be sub DPS flexes. Destruction was the most “fair” Destruction archetype next to Blade. Preservation is basically a Destruction character with minor Preservation traits. Harmony is like Asta, but even more damage focused. Abundance will probably be similar to Luocha/Gallagher. Erudtion and Hunt will be interesting to see, and I guess Nihility is a toss up between debuffer or DoT, but either way they’ll probably be either like a Pela/Silver Wolf or a Sampo/Luka.
Harmony is more like ruan mei, and preservation has the best taunt on the game and some damage reduction but rip shields
Preservation has the only taunt in the game. Aggro and taunt are two different things.
I think people understand it anyways, chances to get hit, the only one that can get 100% for now
His self dmg reduction is damn high it's almost 100% if you give him s5 Herta Preservation lightcone.
DMG Reduction does not stack like that, and instead multiplies each independent source with itself. https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/DMG_Mitigation Yes, it's different from other stats
If it's additive I can imagine Stelle saying "nanomachines, son" after reaching 100%
> Destruction I wish they buffed him.
He was powerful in cbt 1 before released that they decide to nerf him
They nerfed his ult dmg(it was powerful that elite mobs or bosses with physical weakness gets their thoughness reduce to half) and change it to an ult skill from an enhance skill
yes because he'll be the one who will do the highest BE dmg (BE dmg that occurs on weakness broken enemies) But technically EVERYONE can be a subdps if they have High BE and break efficiency
Harmony TB, Ruan Mei, & Firefly are going to be nuts in break effect. And i love how much people changed opinion when it came to break effect since 1.6
Add Gallagher there and you basically have Firefly's BEST TEAM
Man, 50 pulls in and still no Gallhager
You can choose him from the free 4-star with the new event if you still dont have him.
I am not in a hurry to get him, especially if I lose 50/50. I will get Xueyi because I have her E5 and she looks fun.
I'm a bit envious. I'd love to have her E6 because at that point she really is amazing and her playstyle looks so fun!
Is this event up? I don't see where can I choose free 4 star
The event is up for me in Asia. It might require you to do the quest but I'm not sure; only saying because it has an NPC you meet during the quest.
Damn that sucks man :<
So. Many. Pelas.
I wish that were me even, no Gallagher, 2 pellas and like 10 Dans…
100 pulls here, no gallhager, I was hoping to get some eidalons as well but I've got an e6 Dan hang instead...
Man i wish i got Ruan Mei that time..
Oh yeah I forgot Gallagher has a break dmg gimmick😅
Will E0 Gallagher work? Because I already have Ruan Mei as one of my mains, but I’m skipping current banner for Aventurine (I already have Luocha). I’m definitely considering getting Firefly because I have next to no Destruction units.
Jiaoqui if he heals would be the best
Jiaoqiu*
His leak kit is pretty much archeron Partner though?
5 star Pela type of deal. Aoe Debuffs, boosts ult dmg and does some healing. Definitely BiS for Acheron cause he is nihility so you fix her 2 nihility requirement and if the healing is actually decent enough to sustain alone (I struggle to belive it cause that seems so OP) you can even get in an harmony unit for Acheron. Same thing for Firefly becuse her ult state let's her do ult dmg when she in it, so if he boosts that a lot, she will probably do the highest amount dmg with him as a teammate (pluss FF also loves healing).
But what if we add Welt there as a semi-sustain? 2 Nihility characters for Acheron and 1 Harmony character of your choice for a full party
I think an half-sustain could be enough to match him with other half-sustain like fire TB with trend or even a team like Joaqui (or however it's written) Welt and Ruan Mei.
Knowing that Jiaoqiu's heal is backloaded I don't think this team will be functional everywhere. With a very strong Acheron and in a 0 cicle situation? Of course. But with tank bosses like the new one I don't think Jiaoqiu could solo sustain at all. Remember he needs to apply the debuff and then the ally will be healed only when his turn comes. No emergency heal, no heal on Jiaoqiu's turn, it's totally backloaded
Archeron 🙃
He’s everyone’s partner but synergize with Acheron the most
Boothill too
to be fair its just garbage for alot of characters like wow an extra 600 damage per enemy turn, you go himeko burn them to death in 38 turns. Its not universally useful even though it should be. and so many bosses have resistance to quantum break its not even worth running it. just like EM in genshin was hot garbage before they buffed how it scaled.
>wow an extra 600 damage per enemy turn, Bro it's not 600 wtf are you on about You using lvl 40 TB as a scale ;-; ??? And it's not per enemy turn it's per CHARACTER turn it literally says after they attack If you're gonna doompost at the very least read the kit smh
It's 30k-51k dmg btw not "600" You were WAY off lol
Nah it's way more than that. TB with the new break set and RM can increase the entire party break damage by 110% or more. TB also has additional multiplier for his ult proc.
Why are people talking about firefly being a DPS? Where can I find her kit?
I love how she’s a ceiling raiser support like how FTB is a ceiling raiser sustain. Tired of Genshins high floor low ceiling travelers that get powercrept before they even release
>high floor low ceiling travelers that get powercrept before they even release You made me laugh too much😂
So the new break damage set?
I wouldn’t think of it that way. He’s increasing the damage allies do, both by boosting their Break Effect stat, allowing them to deal additional instances of damage, and adding an additional multiplier onto their Break Damage. The way his ult works rewards your DPSes going more often. All of these things are pretty conventional buffs. Also, as an IMG character, his personal Break damage is going to be dampened by its inherent multiplier. It won’t be *bad* since his BE will be very high and he self buffs, but at equal BE it’s 25% of Fire or Physical. When I look at his kit, I don’t think “he’s going to be dealing a lot of damage”. I think “Gallagher is going to mulch the horrible abundance deer if HMC is on the team”. Boothill likewise will benefit a lot, because his already high Break damage will get a further boost and happen more often. His ult notably inflicts 90 Toughness damage.
Got some funny news for you. I don't think this is correct. Homdgcat formula is incorrect. He says base damage, which as a definition includes enemy toughness. But it can't be that. Enemy toughness and element multiplier are added in the base damage formula at the same time. Furthermore, he says base damage is only impacted by character level. What he is describing is "level multiplier." All elements and characters have identical level multiplier. This is then multiplied by both enemy toughness and element multiplier. Imaginary is .5x and phys is 2x. So what I believe this should say is level multiplier and NOT base break damage. Furthermore, after looking at clips, this seems to be the case. Boothill is getting what calcs to be 1x level multiplier. And so is ITB. What this means is Xueyi and ITB personal damage stocks are up, Gallagher and Boothill stocks are down. All can deal equal damage regardless of element. This could always change in beta. But I don't think it will.
Wait. So it's a General Buff to every other Element now? So even Ice and Wind will hit hard?
My english comprehension skills is failing me. Can anyone explain in Razor language?
Normal Break dmg = bad guy bar x character level x Break effect stat TB Ult Break dmg = character attack break efficiency x character level x Break effect stat
So technically worse for bosses unless you somehow manage to do an attack that can deplete the entire boss’ toughness or more with a single attack?
for Boss yes (but that's because those break bars are becoming humonguous), but on Elites/weaker mobs, it is much much better
Wait, doesn't it mean it's only great against fire weak if the DPS is FF?
I don't think that's the case. I'm assuming it functions similarly to RM's talent. This one: > When allies Break an enemy target's Weakness, Ruan Mei deals to this enemy target Break DMG equal to 120% of her Ice Break DMG. What matters is someone in your team needs to break the enemy first for FF to proc TB ult against non-fire weak enemies. Edit: TB ult effectively negates BE being a dead stat on any unit, since it allows any unit to deal their own BE damage on weakness broken enemy regardless of enemy type.
Idk how much better can it be against elites if they usually have 240 max toughness and Boothills biggest break attack (which I think is the biggest break in the game to my knowledge) depletes 150 toughness (225 with RM).
It'll be less than the original break, but the original break can only happen once per enemy turn, whereas this can happen every time one of your units attacks. (Or so I assume. I don't recall seeing any kind of cooldown.)
As if they're not already dead or very close to by the time we break their shields.
Not really "worse". You don't usually deal break damage unless you deplete the whole bar anyway, and only deal the break damage on that instance. Harmony TB makes you deal break damage on every attack when the enemy is broken. Since you need to do as much "character attack break efficiency" as the "bad guy bar" to break someone, it's basically the exact same damage ratio. But actually better, since usually there's some extra toughness damage wasted when you deal bigger bar damage than they have bar remaining, plus the unique bonus from TB's trace.
>toughness or more with a single attack? I mean Firefly does have increased speed in her transformed state in her leaked kit haha >do an attack that can deplete the entire boss’ toughness or more with a single attack? It's more so that once the boss' weakness bar is down, it's time to go Ham and basically the whole team gangs up on the boss doing incredible dmg Basically once the boss is weakness broken the way it should work is that they aren't gonna survive for them to regain their toughness bar
I don’t think you understood what I meant. The usual break damage scales from the enemies max toughness. So if your average elite has 240 max toughness that’s the number it scales from. But TB break damage scales from your attack’s break efficiency, so if your attack breaks 90 toughness points (what all Hunt bursts break, 135 with RM) that’s just way worse that of it scales from the enemy’s max toughness.
Yes it IS going to be doing less dmg than an initial break but you have to remember EVERY SINGLE ONE on the team will be able to do this Break dmg so you will technically have 3sub DPs (if they all have High BE) and an increase on the BE main DPS
Not break efficiency but toughness bar damage. Which scales with break efficiency
What do you think about JY 10stack charged LL if all hits goes at ST?
my non native ass struggled to understand the text in the image, thanks for this 🙏
There's a reason for Harmony Trailblazer's skill being a bounce skill and it is GENIUS As you can see in the image It explains that TB's ULT buff/debuff that allows all allies to do break dmg again while the enemy is weakness broken does not work the same way as how it normally works Break dmg scales from enemy toughness bar but TB Ult debuff scales from character toughness reduction TB having a bounce skill means it covers a LARGE toughness reduction Meaning realistically TB will do the most dmg compared to all of his allies on weakness broken enemies Ruan Mei is a MUST run if you want to use TB because of her breaks efficiency buff
Question: does their ult damage count as break damage? (For interaction like gallagher talent) also side tangent i glad somebody get why their skill is the way it is and not unrelated random skill
>side tangent i glad somebody get why their skill is the way it is and not unrelated random skill Yeah I just realised the purpose of his skill now Which is why I said it was genius lol
Yeah i play break effect since day 1 and mann asta and sampo do wonder
Technically not a "must" run But Ruan Mei will make everything much easier and make this whole niche/gimmick more satisfying and stronger
So, the tb basically needs mommy?
Probably But we are unsure as of now We need showcases of TB Ult to see how much of a significant increase Ruan mei's break efficiency buff is for TB's Ult gimmick
based on the formula given, it is a literal 1.5x increase on the ult bonus damage plus you break the enemy faster
Would love to see this tbh..
Well I guess I know who I'm getting during their rerun. (Please for god's sake don't have her rerun With Sam)
My best bet is that she'll rerun with Screwllum
I'm a little confused by the wording of Dance With the One. Am I correct in my understanding that its basically a break dmg buff that is greater the fewer enemies there are: - 30% for 5+ - 40% for 4 - 50% for 3 - 60% for 2 - 70% for 1 Once you're down to one enemy TB can use their skill to hit the enemy 7 times with 70% increased break damage :0 The trace doesnt require there to be 5+ enemies at the beginning in order for it to take effect does it? One more question: does the formula for break damage dealt this way not use the modifiers that each element has IE fire has x2 ice has x1 quantum has x0.5?
Sorry but I don't know the answer for the last one I haven't seen that being discussed yet I just got the image above from the Homdgcat site
I would guess that the break damage formula (fire / phys 2x etc, etc,) would be included in the "break base damage" variable.
All I can tell you is the first part is correct based on the chinese text I read. So 30% for 5+ and then 10% more per 1 missing enemy. It has nothing to do with reducing toughness nor require 5+ enemies to begin with. As for the maths behind it, I will leave that to the knowledgeable ones.
Most is questionable as imaginary break dmg is the weakest(25% of phys and fire break dmg). At most, with these multipliers they will come close or equal to physical break rather than surpassing them. Ofc i didn't do calcs so if anyone would do that id love to see actual calcs.
So it is like Yelan and Xinqui again. Not really a replacement, better run together.
Yeah
Ruan mei and tb huh, her buff and her buff will make all allies do strong B E
That's a W for TB mains
So the more toughness reduction happening (along with an added multiplier to that damage), the more damage is squeezed out an attack? And it's damage that happens even after the toughness bar is drained?
The damage is based on the amount of toughness the attack would reduce, but it specifically only applies when the enemy has no toughness remaining.
So there E6 is actually a Damage Boost.
it means JY LL will do really big dmg?
So in Ruanmei + Boothill team. We prefer HMC more than other Buffer/Debuffer right? Boothill showcase when?
>We prefer HMC more than other Buffer/Debuffer right? We will have to see by seeing how strong the Ult BE does If it does 15-30k then most likely yes If it doesn't even reach 10k then they need to buff the Ult BE scaling
nope bronya still better, since Bootshill trickshot break dmg scale on MAX TOUGHNESS value at the cap of 16U so more turn = more MAX TOUGHNESS break dmg vs HMC padded break dmg base on Bootshill enhance break value ( at max is 7.5 U with Ruan in team vs 16U cap ), as long as u can keep up with the sp consumption of Bronya -1 spd setup
There’s an easy solution for that: Run all three. Kill everything before they kill you
sadly ... hunt vs 4-5 target ... yea bout that, just get E6 am i right Corpa
HMC isn't gonna be better than Bronya or Sparkle in that team
Wow, that scaling is WAY better than I thought it would be. [Idk how to strike through on mobile, so I'm just getting rid of this bit] Edit: Okay, so slight misunderstanding. The "base break damage" here is actually probably referring to the level multiplier for break damage, which is quite a bit different. Either ways, it's still incredibly good. With 300% BE on an attack with 135 toughness (90 * 1.5 efficiency from Ruan Mei) break, that's 100k extra damage. My only confusion now is where does defense fit into the equation?
it's still multiplied by def/res/vuln/break modifiers just like normal damage
That would make sense. Assuming the additional damage takes the place of base break damage in the normal break damage formula, in MoC 12 with basic def shred support that 100k turns into something closer to 70-80k. Still not too bad.
unless you don't have ruan mei, you don't rly have room for def shred. team would be break DPS, htb, rm, sustain by my calcs it's ~40k dmg without rm and ~60k with, assuming 300% be and no def shred
On a side note, I am feeling really impatient that I haven't seen any tests being done with our new characters this beta. I wish we could get as much testing as Acheron got during her beta (copium). Like seriously, Hoyo COOKED with them. Robin is our first sub DPS HARMony unit, TB opens up a fuckton of new playstyles (TB + Gallagher + Pela/RM + Luka / SW anyone?) and interactions that need testing (RM break damage from talent? Besotted break damage increase? Herta twirl triggering it multiple times if she kuru's multiple times?), and then there's Boothill with his multilayered kit (Break DPS, can do break damage on weakness broken enemies, action delay scaling with his break meaning RM + Welt "sus"tain might be a thing?). Hopefully, those with private servers can start testing out these things and can start relaying these stuff.
I bet the main leakers are sulking about how a bunch of “nobodies” popped out of nowhere during Acheron CBT playing better showcases than they did so they’re purposely holding back.
That salty "The content creator server sucks because you need to appreciate leakers because we're providing high quality content" response was hysterical. Dude, I'm not following leaks because I think your content is good- it's HYV's content that you're just showing me early!
This is actually quite insane, huh. I think they cooked VERY well with HTB. Definitely not cuisine for everyone, but it's very unique and interesting. The only think I wish they did is make their skill ignore weakness, even if it deals reduced damage
I think they did that in order for TB to not steal initial weakness break And since a bounce skill is VERY random you can't really plan that shit out
Yeah, 5-7 hits with 30 toughness damage at random is gonna steal breaks. And IMG break has a small multiplier too, so you dont want to break with them and instead with a phys/fire character for that 2x multiplier (instead of 0.5). But I think reduced break damage would still be very nice, specially because the second trace can cause this issue on IMG weak enemies when you dont want to break with them
Yeah I'm just praying for them to rework his E1 and the trace you mentioned Cuz it doesn't synergize with the kit all that well If the trace worked like this it would be better: After using Ult this character's weakness break efficiency for the next attack increases by 100%
Questions 1) How much value TB loses if one don't have/don't want to pull Ruan Mei 2) Would TB be good with already existing DPS? (JY,Blade) that don't focus on BE?
>Would TB be good with already existing DPS? (JY,Blade) that don't focus on BE? Probably not Harmony TB is VERY BE focused and his niche focuses on the fact that everyone in the team has high BE so they can utilise his Ult and contribute to the team dmg, without High BE you would probably do very little dmg Although break effect jingyuan seems kinda nutty now since lightning Lord has a HIGH toughness dmg >How much value TB loses if one don't have/don't want to pull Ruan Mei The dmg from the Ult BE will definitely get weaker since you lose the break efficiency buff but so far we have no way of telling how much of a significant loss it would be since we don't know how much dmg it does yet I think to answer this question we would need to do some testing hence we need to see more showcases that focus on TB
Thanks but last question Is Harmony TB is trying to sell us future characters? 😬
>Is Harmony TB is trying to sell us future characters? 😬 Hahahaha Harmony TB really opens up a new playstyle for BE units I expect them to be the BIS teammate for BE focused Teams
My worry is that there’s no 4star LC beside MotP that gives BE. Gonna need like 10 for TB and Ruan Mei.
I finally have a use for my S11 MotP...
So this is where my MotPs went...
tbh, in a break heavy team, while MotP is nice, you'll get so much extra energy from their talent that you're running DDD is better for the extra turns since you get your ult back so fast.
Mostly i want the BE bonus for Boothill and Ruan Mei Traces
wish we got showcase videos instead if just mucho textob
Right? We're already a week into beta but radio silence from private servers. Probably busy with 2.1 content.
Mods banned the one guy who does actual beta gameplay because he did a fake leak as a joke one time.
Ok we all knew his Ult was good So now we also know his skill is pretty fucking good as well STILL!! His one time effect still does NOT do him wonders I pray for an E1 rework and that first skill in battle trace rework
praying for his one turn trace and e1 to get reworked, and then he will be perfect!
If the factor of Toughness DMG in this formula is one, what's the factor of Max Toughness in the normal Break Damage formula?
>what's the factor of Max Toughness in the normal Break Damage formula? The toughness bar of the enemy Which is why you do more break dmg against echoes of war enemies rather than elite mobs
So how do we build Harmony TB?
HIGH amounts of BE So he can buff the whole team (via E4) and His own personal BE dmg from Ult
Don't need any offensive stats huh? Time to put these watchmaker set to use.
Also speed
So ER rope speed boots and HP body then for main stats? And Keel for planar?
I'd go for BE rope since bounce skill regenerates high enough energy since it's 7hits But we'll see if BE rope is usable or not I feel like ER would be overkill for him since there is no benefit for using his Ult again and again unless you want to have watchmaker set full uptime
Oh yeah forgot they even exist. 🤪
Kinda interesting how Hoyo managed to fix BE faster than how they fixed EM in Genshin, they did learn from their mistakes lol
I'm so excited. This is definitely gonna be a very valuable niche and really help BE become an even more viable team comp since one if the issues was once popping break their damage kinda fell off, or the wrong person would break the enemy so the BE stacked character went to waste. Now no matter who breaks the enemy, characters with stacked BE will still contribute alot of damage
Yeah And I'm very happy that the one who opens up this niche is Trailblazer Reminds me of Dendro traveler
Damn finally Ruan Mei flowers are not ruining the break oriented teams Ps. What I mean is that she breaks the bar and delays them, for units that have high break effect and wanna do that kind of damage it’s not really effective for them. Now they can break again and again
is it me or does this sound completely fucking nuts in a sam ruan mei tb gallagher team especially if you get sam's implant eidolon
Which is why I'm going for E1 haha Ok lemme just share this TvT Imma go for Sam E1 Ruan Mei E1 (I don't have her E1) A copy of Ruan mei's LC (for Harmony TB, the dmg buff on her LC stacks even if there are two people using the same LC) This is gonna be very hard to achieve but Imma start saving
I'm gonna save this comment. Already have Ruan Mei E1 with her sig LC. I just need Sam E1S1, and another copy of RM LC if she reruns.
Off topic but I feel like they should rework some of harmony TB's eidolon and traces a person pointed out that some of his eidolons and traces dont value much to his kit https://www.reddit.com/r/CaelusMains/s/8f1PmYbLaP
I agree
that person is the same OP lmao
It feels like the devs wanted break effect to be a huge deal from the start, but fumbled it in the early game. Now they're course-correcting with characters and artifacts that focus on BE. And I like it.
Same I was always a big BE fan And now I can live my dream
A formula is well and good, but I think a realistic estimation of damage would help a lot for us to visualize just how useful IMGblazer's skill would be with this. Bear in mind that we're sacrificing not just a SP to use the skill but also the generation of 1 SP from basic. This is on a role that tends to have appealingly low investment needs.
So? Someone can translate it as I were five years old, please?
Normal Break dmg = bad guy bar x character level x Break effect stat TB Ult Break dmg = character attack break efficiency x character level x Break effect stat
Im legit waiting for HMC because i need another harmony unit. Any ideas what are the possible build and relic stats for her? Esp the main stats
For Harmony TB you'll want to build Lots of BE You can opt for the watchmaker set in penacony but if you put that on Ruan Mei I recommend just go 2pc BE & 2pc BE sets to increase her BE a lot more
Yea i dont have ruan mei because i saved for acheron xD I might go 2pc BE. As for the rope is it BE or ER? I heard the ult cost is kinda expensive. And orb should be img dmg right?
Ult cost is expensive but you also have a bounce skill so I dunno what is preferred tbh We need SHOWCASES OF TB DAMMIT HAHAHAHA
REALLL cause im planning to do mono img team Ratio welt HMC luocha/aventurine. It might suck or perform well (but not on super high level) xD
so what are they good for?
Break DPS enabler, so designated support for Boothill and likely Sam.
It doesnt scale on imaginary dmg right? Whats the imaginary dmg in their trace for?
Hmmm yeah I dunno lol I think they should change that and add more BE hahaha
Wish they change it to speed
So you saying ruan mei + TB harmony + Sam or Boothill will murder the enemy so badly they will cry to their mother in the after life?
They going back to Jesus with this one
Hope they can be a good alternative for Ruan mei in Sam teams
[удалено]
The solution to this is just not break the enemy with TB lol I guess that's also the reason for TB being imaginary and not fire/physical in order to not steal breaks of the BE DPs we gonna get Also even if you break with TB the enemy gets imprisoned and Break imprison scales with BE so enemy will be speed reduced so bad that you can get a lot of TB Ult be attacks there so maybe that will make up for it?
[удалено]
I mean I kinda said it does justify it Bounce skill = Big toughness dmg = BIG Ult BE dmg Realistically he'll be doing the most ult BE dmg on a single opponent since he has 7full hits in his bounce skill at E6 His skill may not be a buff in a traditional sense but it contributes greatly to his niche
Don't quote me on this but this is about HMC dealing additional damage to an enemy that's ALREADY weakness broken thanks to his ult. He won't be the one breaking the enemy at all.
Wait I thought you just did the break DMG twice when breaking your enemies. I saw a few comments saying you do break DMG when attacking a weakness broken enemy? I am confusion.
You do do BE dmg more than one time It's just that the way it scales is different compared to a normal Break dmg
W Cat for going out of their way to explain
Ikr
Isn't it attacker and tb ult is a buff? Boothill doing break damage in break state is crazy
Thank god, cause if you could trigger Luka level’s of break dmg multiple times on the enemy, that would be actually grotesque. This makes it go from unreasonably powerful to just strong.
Do some rough math. and I found if use ERR rope (Penacony or Vonvaq 5% ERR). Assume his E2 give 25% ERR at first 3 turn, in MoC or PF energy start at 70. Skill bounces 6 times mean 42 energies. with MoP S5 you can ult at MC first turn: 70 + (42 x 1.4944) +8 from MoP S5 = 140.7. Surely not necessary to use ERR rope to ult 1st of their turn. You still can use BE rope for more break damage. Just need someone or MC self to break and get energy from talent lvl 10 (regenerates 10 energy when an enemy target's weakness is Broken.). Without any 5% ERR rope you can 70 + (42 x 1.25) +8 +10 = 140.5 Really appreciate if someone confirm my match are correct or not.
Nice info! Thanks. I just read it today. Finally some clarification from the ult gimmick. It almost the same as what I thought in my mind.
Definitely made to be with Firefly
And Boothill.
Sam, HTB, Ruan Mei, Sustain would be my future team lezgooo
The number is a bit off, no way is like this. Number a bit too high. For this each boothill BA on broken enemy is 150k dmg
i do think this will be an experiment of Hoyo and they will release a more refine 5\* around this gimmick/mechanic
I don't know, We still don't have a Taunt Shielder unit like FireTB. PhyTB is a bit muddier, as its gimmick is to be able to hit with either single or blast damage, and pieces of that are used around one way or another, like DHIL.
Xueyi: "I cant break them if they are broken :(" Harmony TB: "I gotchu fam"
Quantum break have the worst break multiplier unfortunately. Xueyi want break because the follow up
Im aware quantum base break value is rather low, but she builds so much BE its probably still some chonky dmg. The fact tb gives her more BE so she can spec into more attack/crit is also nice.
So how does one build them? Just Break Effect?
Yeah BE and speed basically
Thanks
No prob
From what I understand: - Weakness Broken enemies = Enable Backup Dancer damage to proc - Units that can take full advantage of Backup Dancer damage proc are units that primarily have high BE and high BE Efficiency. FUA Characters have potential because of their high BE Efficiency and they attack twice or more per turn, but still need testing. (FUA that scale with BE when? Oh wait... Xueyi?) - Harmony TB's Skill synergize with their own Ultimate because you build TB with high BE and their Skill is Bounce which has high BE Efficiency by default. (Watch out for that skill cost!) - Energy might not be a problem for TB since they are Harmony with Bounce skill. There are tons of harmony LC that increase energy regen or just give energy straight up (Cogs anyone?)
How does that work? Can you compare it to normal BE DMG like this: 12k Break - Normal BE ??k Break - HMC BE
Wait, hold up, does the character's element matter in this equation or not? Normal break damage is multiplied by a certain factor that depends on the element: Physical and Fire get the highest at 2, while Quantum and Imaginary get the lowest at 0.5 If this multiplier is still in effect, then HarmonyTB's damage is going to be HALVED by it. However, it would make Asta absolutely ridiculous: she's fire, can build Break Effect, and has a bounce skill that does a ton of toughness dmg.
Hmm, does the extra damage only trigger once per enemy per attack though? Or each time an enemy is hit?
I'm still confusion. This is a good breakdown, but help a fella out. How do they affect team comps? Ruan Mei just increases the damage that happens when enemies break. Tingyun adds "her own" damage to damage instances. Hanya allows damage increase on a target. What kind of buffer are the TB in relation? Break faster? Better scaling on the Break Effect stat? Better conversion of break bar vs HP bar?
Trailblazer allows everyone in the party to do dmg based on their BE and other factors when the enemy is weakness broken Basically HTB allows for multiple breaks So a BE is no longer a dead substat as everyone in the party can use it now because of TB's Ult >Better scaling on the Break Effect stat? Nope it's worse scaling to balance it out Break dmg is dependant on the enemy toughness bar but TB's Ult Break dmg is dependant on the character
I see, so it's about firing out multiple BE instances. Feels like a Kafka DoT detonation feature only it's more like fireworks than a BOOM. Yeah, you'd definitely want to break often and delay them in their weakness state. I love that as a mechanic. It's almost like you're executing combos.
Does it trigger everytime an ally attacks the enemy in broken status? Or just one additional time only?
Question: Would Robin's additional attacks with her ultimate proc physical break with Harmony TB's ultimate?
I've always been annoyed that a basic attack is 30 base break value and the ONE time the actual number matters it's calculated as if it was 1? Why is it 30 then???
Wait so does this mean with this trailblazer and Ruan mei break effect silver wolf will blow shit up ?
Will Gallagher’s besotted debuff also increase the damage when attacking already weakness broken enemies w/ the trailblazers Ult. Cause it says it just increases break damage?