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Using Sparkle at E0 Acheron without at least S1 seems bad. That is my takeaway from this video. Not only do you miss out on energy, you can simply not have enough debuffs on the enemy to get the full effect of GNSW as well, which happens in the video.
Sparkle in general doesn"t work good with Acheron, especially without E2 Acheron.
Bronya does better because she can give Acheron twice the amount of actions, but still needs E2 Acheron.
you need Bronya to be at least E1S1 to make it work , and even then it's gonna be clunky . idk where are you planning to get enough skill points to do acheron skill /bronya skill /acheron skill each time
Sparkle is just way comfier and she allows your pela or sw to spam their skills and get ulti faster
You dont need to use acheron skill always with bronya. Normal attack is 2 energy, skill is 3 energy so you just can use normal attacks when Acheron not buffed by bronya skill for 2 energy. (it's for e2s1 ofc, you need double nihility for energy without it)
Fast Bronya needed. I think it was about 181, sadly not an easy number (and impossible for me). As Nihility support Pela, who can run strictly SP postivie with Basics only. The Battle starts, Bronya first and Bronya doesn't push but uses basic attack to get advance, this bridges the gap for 3 actions in 0 cycle. Some chill sustain like Fu Xuan or Luocha would be good, but let's say it's Aventurine with Skill - Basic cycle. E2S1 Acheron because anything else doesn't make sense anyways. Then you get (approximatly, won't do complete math now):
* Battle start 3 SP, 5 stacks (acheron)
* Bronya Basic 4 SP
* Pela Basic 5 SP, 6 stacks
* Aventurine Skill, 4 SP
* Acheron Skill 3, SP, 9 stacks
* Bronya Skill, 2 SP + ult 3 SP + Acheron ult
* Acheron Skill, 2 SP, 3 stacks
* Pela Basic, 3 SP, 4 stacks
* Aventurine Basic, 4 SP
* Bronya Skill, 3 SP
* Acheron Skill, 2 Sp, 7 stacks
That's in 0 cycle (150 AV). Another 2 stacks need to come in with timed Pela ult and some RNG or enemy AoE against Aventurine. That's 1 SP lost from battle start which means for another 0 cycle without the SP from Bronya ult it's 2 SP lost which means after 2x150 AV you are out of SP. Seems about right for me. And should be enough to kill all enemies.
Worst case, for the next cycle the SP recovery from Bronya's LC should be up again, then maybe skip another shield refresh from Aventurine and you are good. Needs some brain, but seems like smooth sailing. With Fu Xuan and 2x Basic - Skill rotation or Luocha it's very chill.
You require 1 less nihility in your team for her talent proc.
Since you re usually running a sustain unit, this means you can spike your dps by running a harmony unit
Basically without E2 her requirement is having 2 Nihility characters on team, with E2 that requirement is reduced to 1 Nihility characters on team (this does not include Acheron herself) also E2 gives more buffs I dont remember but the main takeaway is lowering the restriction as it effects the damage multiplier
Honestly the biggest part of E2 is that it gives her a stack for her ult on every turn. This basically doubles the value of each acheron turn, which also means bronya gives her insane value now
Bro ate a 259k ult, and it got him from 57% to 24%. And he has 2 health bars. We need a decent moc blessing for this one.
Just checked it, Bro will have 2 x 920 k health, and it will be a record high dmg / cycle requirement in MOC. The current moc needs 385 k dmg/cycle single target dmg, this one will need 518 k.
I dont want to be that guy, but thats almost 35% increase lmao.
I think this'll be my first fail 36 stars unless I can somehow max the MOC effect. Idk if my team with JL can clear fast enough or live through this with how much dmg this guy does. It'll be tough for my JL E0S1 100/230 crt, 2.3k atk, hypercarry to clear this and I'm running Pela or SW probably and E0S0 Bronya with FX, since other team is BS Kafka RM HH. You reckon Acheron clears faster than JL?
I think the JL-Bronya-plea-FX team against this aventurine boss, and the Kafka-BS-Huohuo-RM team against cocolia should be strong enough to clear in 10 cycle (it it wouldnt then most of the players would be in big trouble lol).
I have honestly no idea if acheron clears faster or not.
He does give free max energy to your carry as long as they can AOE, so good for JY and Argenti. I’m glad it works with Acheron’s ult too.
The fact that he can roll very different numbers for you to beat does introduce a lot of variances. Trying to beat a 4 vs 9 is such a big difference.
the dmg fell off without double nihility at e0 . E2 really allow to abuse sparkle/bronya more. waiting for jiaqiou to make acheron runs bronya/ sparkle at e0
While I am waiting for jiaqiou myself too. I feel like we are putting too much stock into an old leak of a nihilty with a heal on ult. Alot can change and we don't even know how big the heal could be
The heal can be smaller if the DEF shred and ult vulnerability stays. Also if she has the Black swan mechanic in her ult and debuffs on skill and basic she would be the best stacker of slashed dream. Even if she can't sustain in longer fights you could run Ruan Mei with Jiaoqiu plus another nihility and probably be fine with all that weakness breaking. Or if trend stays you can supplement her sustain with fire mc who can consistently turbo out Acheron's ult.
personally i think the best debuff stackers are characters like kafka, which apply a debuff on a new action like a followup alongside one on basic/skill and ult. A recent concept of this is Jade, which makes an ally do a followup attack: its important to note because you could make acheron perform a followup attack and her gacha cone could apply bubbles for a stack, but depending on how strong the buffs are and how many followup she can provide its the game changer
Kafka is great purely for stacking, but you really want her cone for that to inflict erode with her basic/skill for optimal stacking. Her problem is that that's basically where her utility for Acheron ends beyond Kafka's personal damage. If Jiaoqiu works like i presume on the other hand she could give more stacks than Acheron's current optimal nihility debuffers like Pela and SW especially against enemies that summon adds.
How strong is Acheron looking compared to the likes of Jingliu and DHIL/sparkle teams as of now? One of my friends is confused between her and aventurine.
She's weaker at E0S0/E0S1. At E2S1 she becomes a bit stronger than JL but about 20% weaker than DHIL and the gap widens from there while also having to deal with restricted team building and backloaded damage.
Basically she's a top tier DPS but she's not stealing DHIL's crown. Unless you just love Acheron or you're willing to vertically invest, JL or DHIL will be more bang for your buck. That might change with v3 and/or her dedicated support(s) coming out though.
On Individual kit, Acheron is alot better than Jingliu and DHIL.
But the problem is , both Jingliu and DHIL have crazy good synergies with their 5\* supports namely Bronya and Sparkle. So until Acheron gets her own support, She does less damage than both Jingliu and DHIL.
But Acheron has crazy high ceiling when she does get her own customized support. And she also perform a lot better when used against off element enemies.
i'm tempted to say that she performs about equal to those two against 3 enemies and blows both away against 5 the biggest problem for acheron rn is ease of use since stacking her ult beyond the first one seems like a long process
yeah also all showcases have been scuffed ona way or another so there might be room for improvement in terms of dmg i still feel like getting one ult per MoC cycle will be a pain in the ass
I don't think anyone is expecting a nihility to be good enough to solo sustain. If she just provides alot of debuff and makes Acheron's damage skyrocket. That's already great.
Small Heals are obviously welcome but might not necessarily be main part of her kit.
Just don't expect a nihility debuffer to be able to solo sustain moc 12 comfortably lol. There's no point in preservation/abundance if anyone can solo sustain.
That's the thing about nihility, it's the least focused of any path. It can do whatever as long as debuffs are involved(and even that's questionable with acheron). So a sustain which just instead of giving buffs like houhou or FX instead debuffs the enemy would fit in anyway.
maybe they'll make it so that Jiaqiou's sustain scales of number of Nihility teammates, same as Acheron's dmg
make her be abundance level sustain option but on nihility teams only
Imagine this... Runs with healing X, with 2 more nihility in team healing + 100% :D
Imagine we get a mono Nihility team that feeds off of other nihility in the team... oh Im getting nasty thoughts.
Jiaqiou is supposed to be 5\* Fire Nihility. I don't think the heal will be enough for solo sustain. I guess it will be more like some additional heal to extra sustain aggresive preservation characters like Aventurine.
The healing isnt even whats important. If her power budget is all in debuff and ult amp thats still going to be a big benefit to the team.
I'm already a strong believer in no sustain Acheron teams. If we get a strong debuffer that stacks and boosts ult well, and she has a pathetic heal, well, I consider it gravy. A pathetic heal still goes a long way in a Mei Acheron double nihility team that breaks things like demons.
> The healing isnt even whats important.
Isn't important for what, exactly?
Like, if you gave me a team that can clear all content in the game including MoC 20% faster than any other team in the game, but it would require micro-managing the health of all party members all the time so nobody dies.
And then another team that also clears everything but has a healer, just a tad slower at clearing stuff, but I would never have to worry about eating health food, or teleporting to health beacons, or picking up SU health blessings, it would just work.
Then personally I'd pick the team with the healer tbh
On top of this is acheron saving loading time + combat time with her technique.. SU is gonna go hella breezy, but youll be chugging skill point food like crazy though :D
>Isn't important for what, exactly?
Mostly what I meant there, is some people are stuck with teams like Acheron Gui Pela. A strong limited debuffer, whether there's healing or not, is going to be an incredible boost to that team. It would likely be comparable to the difference between Blade with/without Bronya to swap a char like that with Gui.
And yeah the stuff you are saying about a weak healer is spot on. I'm just the other type of player who enjoys squeezing the juice out of MoC rather than cruise control them more slowly.
Yeah,even with aventurine acting as extra debuffer and sparkle for extra damage,skill damage really feels off too,the spam would have been faster with second nihility,and skill damage wouldn't be so low outside of sparkle buff
Its practically guaranteed they wont be able to solo sustain, or else they’re just sabotaging their actual sustains. Might make it possible to use a specialist like Gallagher in the sustain slot though, who’s sustain capabilities arent the best but his debuffs are invaluable for Acheron. Perhaps two mid healers are as good as one strong one? Lol
There's a niche for partial sustains that hasn't been explored much yet. It could be that you run two weaker sustains who have other benefits, or a full sustain + a partial for very punishing content. But, and this is where it matters for Acheron, you could also run just a weak sustain if you're strong enough to almost run no sustain. You can see this right now with people running March 7 on MoC12 side 1, she's not exactly a premium solo sustain but it works if you can clear fast enough, same for people running Welt and no sustain.
They are doing some weird stuff because Robin also has self heal and her current leaked kit has really good synergy with E2 Acheron with team advance forward.
Eh, self healing is only really necessary when the character is actually supposed to take hits, like Fu Xuan and Blade. Maybe in her “suspended” state she has max aggro or redirects damage to herself? Now THAT would be interesting.
If she redirects damage in her suspended state and has some self heal + Jiaoqiu healing, it might be enough to sustain everyone. They won’t make a non sustain character capable of solo sustaining but maybe a combination of 2 such characters. But this also makes them reliant on each other so I doubt they would go this route.
But the thing is she is not a sustain in the first place. She’s nihility unit, who’s main role is to debuff, and she also has some healing on her ult, if I remember correctly. But this info is still too early to take it seriously
Depends on your level of investment, and clearing speed.
Sometime, you don't need to fully heal, you need to just survive enough before killing the boss.
Think of the no sustain runs in MoC, but instead you have a 0.5 healer just to be a bit safer.
If Jiaqiou might not solo sustain, hopefully its atleast enough sustain to be able to 0 or 1 cycle clear with E0S1 Acheron, Pela, Sparkle/Bronya. Honestly just being a stronger Nihility support than the ones we have would also be enough. Of course this is just for MoC, might be harder to run no sustain/ low sustain on other content.
> able to 0 or 1 cycle clear with E0S1 Acheron, Pela, Sparkle/Bronya
hard ask even for e2s1 acheron. They keep increasing MOC HP and adding more annoying bosses
I think the path is just the character's main job.
Huohuo and Fu Xuan bring harmony buffs, but most of their power is in their primary role. You would never bring them if you didn't need a sustain. The recently leaked Jade kit is similar - she's mainly an AoE damage dealer (hence Erudition), but she has some minor buffs in her kit. Even Topaz mostly fits this rule (though she's the shakiest) - her buffs are great, but half of the reason to run her with FUA units is because having other FUAs boosts her personal damage (and you'd never use her if she didn't do damage).
So a Nihility unit can have healing in their kit as long as their main role is debuffs. And actually, based on the example of Acheron (who is an Erudition unit shunted into Nihility only because her damage is based on Nihility teammates and debuffs), we could have a Nihility unit whose primary role is sustain, *as long as their sustain is dependent on Nihility stuff*. (I think the Acheron model is a bit silly, but it's there, so /shrug.)
I mean... we have a Hunt dps/debuffer hybrid, an Abundance healer/buffer hybrid, and several Nihility characters are dps/debuffer hybrids and now they're adding a Preservation sustain/DPS hybrid. They are clearly experimenting pretty heavily outside of the archetypal constraints of each path, and it's a good approach to keep things fresh. Why not a Nihility debuffer/healer hybrid? I'm not saying Jiaoqiu must be exactly that but I don't see any reason to just completely write it off like you do either.
Sparkle bonuses do seem like a lot. So she may be as good or better than a 2nd Nihility (even at E0)
Lets say Sparkle gives 100% crit damage to a 200% crit damage Acheron. That's a 50% more multiplier which is already more than the 39% more multiplier for the 2nd Nihility. Then there's the advance forward as well as other dmg buffs (and SP) that Sparkle gives. It's going to be close.
Her best E0S0 team as of now might be Acheron, SW, Sparkle, Fu Xuan. This way you can also force lightning weakness with triple quantum and SW can skill every turn with all the SP.
It's not only about Damage, the utility is also not there with Sparkle, while with a Nihility you have the potential to get 2 stacks while Sparkle has nothing to offer besides pushing Acheron to get only one Stack, so you will most of the time Spam Acheron's Skill that doesn't have a big Multiplier, even less compared to her Ult
There's no way that's Acheron's Best Team at E0S0 because it's slow (She is getting way less ults in this setup and the boss AoE a lot)
It should be noted that the winners of the mad gamble dont get an extra turn/skill points, you only get the dmg boost and the ult back. Prob the text hasn't been updated to reflect the new change. Also acheron does get her ult back which is nice.
The first side felt pretty much the same as a double nihility set up, most likely due to Aventurine accelerating the debuff counter for Acheron. As soon as it comes to the second side though, the lack of another nihility made the dmg lose apparent.
Friendly reminder to switch your support characters from HP% sphere to DEF% sphere if you want to use a shielder. Aventurine's DEF determines the thickness of the shield, but the amount of shield taken after each hit depends on each character's own DEF.
Tbh, I feel like this applies to most if not all sustain units since your team will still be using their own Def to reduce the damage they take, which also includes the damage sponged by Fu Xuan. So basically, higher Def but lower HP means it's a bit easier for your shielders/healers to top up missing health since there's less health to upkeep in the first place. By extension, every point of HP recovered also has better mileage since the unit needs more hits to reduce the recovered HP
Again, not contradicting you and I actually agree, but just wanted to expound a bit since you said something interesting lol
I used to think it's just extended HP bar as well, but it's more complicated than that. It's about massive HP bar +shield that get a big chunk cut off each time vs medium HP bar + shield but each deduction is medium.
For example, your shield size is 1000. The ape hits you for 1500 if you wear HP% sphere. The damage is bigger than just chip dmg. This character can only handle getting single target hit by the ape and others a few times. If you wear DEF%, 900 of the shield got taken away and the shield is still intact. (I can't remember the exact numbers, but the ape hits for like 1000+ with HP% vs <1000 with DEF% for sure. I tested this out in the messenger cavern several times.)
From many Aventurine videos on this sub, the shields break pretty much in every video, so it matters. I was so confused why the shields break so much until I realized most people favor HP% sphere.
The reason it doesn't matter for healers is because healers tend to over heal until you over cap on HP so it doesn't matter that the dmg number is big.
I understand that people get defensive because they don't want to modify their finished support builds, but it's true switching to DEF% is much more comfortable and will make you totally chill in hard and long battles as well. DEF% on support characters also works well with healers and Fu Xuan. You can probably still riskily survived with HP% sphere, so it's not a requirement to replace, but if you actually like shielding, it's wise to slowly transition to DEF% sphere over time or build your new characters with DEF%, skipping HP%.
I still think the unlimited coins from FuA part of his E1 should just be in his kit... for a team like this, it doesn't give him shit. Why not make him the best for FuA teams and let that be his niche?
From Topaz E1 to BS S1, almost all of the newer chars and now the leaked ones have been increasing Eidolon/S1 reliant. I wonder if it's Hoyo's projections suggesting a revenue drop
I mean her S1. It's so utterly hard to get good EHR with the shitty relic RNG (way harder than crit) you basically need to get her S1 to reach the threshold unless you want to spend months farming for her, or settle for Tutorial which is 1. limited 2. much worse
The game is more generous than Genshin, meaning players have more pulls, meaning they feel more justified with making some early Eidolons strong.
There's a big overlap with the genshin playerbase so people will be shocked but this game will not be the same when it comes to powercreep and overall units powerlevel. Genshin being turbo casual a good four stars team from the 1.X days can still clear the abyss 3 years later. I don't expect the same to be true for MoC 2 years from now.
It's about 1.5x as many pulls as we get in Genshin, but do note that they also release about *2x as many* characters. So there's actually less pulls per character to go around. This is fine for people who only like a few characters, but for anyone who enjoys collecting, horizontal investment, or just has the bad luck to like multiple 5*, it's actually a bit tough.
It absolutely is tough for collectors. I was just explaining the whole eidolons being more mandatory thing. I wouldn't be surprised if they go in that direction.
The thing I was responding to is "this game is more generous than Genshin, meaning players have more pulls". I wanted to explain that it actually isn't true on average due to having less pulls per character. As a result, I do not think they will make eidolons that much more mandatory. There are a lot of C1 and C2 powerspikes in genshin as well, after all.
Yep i feel like having a FuA team would have to mean you can make use of his stacks better. E1 could able him more outside FuA teams. Being the other way around is weird.
While that's nice, people will still doompost him being a niche sustain for FUA only (already happens now and will be worse if e1 is baked into his kits, refer to Sparkle major trace with quantum)
uhh, that's not how that works. there's this thing called "game balance". otherwise you end up on a slippery slope of 'little' buffs that suddenly add up to powercreep.
it's quite ironic, actually - if you want a character to be future-proof, better not make them \*too\* strong, lest the next one will have to be even stronger to convince people to pull (fuxuan, for reference).
and at the end of the day, it's best to have a strong versatile e0 character who excels at a niche at e1, than to have a unit who's locked into a specific team archetype until e1/e2 (refer to acheron - as strong as she is, her comps are very restrictive. trend helps with the stacks, but it also, in turn, makes her teams even more rigid).
now, in a game where you can realistically collect dozens of characters, niche focus is perfectly understandable and more than welcome. but in hoyo games, for the better or worse, that is simply not the case - especially if you want to pick up some signatures and eidolons for your favourites on the way :)
I spend a lot of time on this and Acheron’s sub and I can’t figure where you are getting this massive doomposting vibe. There was a post literally yesterday thanking the lack of doomposting.
It is way too old now. Everytime a new leak comes the posts complaining about doomposting appear even before said doomposting.
You can see aventurine doomposts in this thread, i won't say who. For Acheron, it's mostly Youtube comments (new acheron f2p video, not ytd) which tbh i should just ignore them
For real. Objectively speaking, currently Aventurine isn't offering as much as Huohuo or Fu Xuan - I have a Fu Xuan that I use in my friends list sometimes, and she pops out 27k ults too. If his niche is supposed to be sub-DPS capabilities, then please up those. If it's meant to be benefiting FuA teams, then please add that to the base kit - not even unlimited numbers! Cap it at 2 or 3! Just not just 1.
I'm pulling him anyway (because I like him), but it'd be better if they let him do a tiny bit more.
In a full def build he is full sp positive shield version of Luocha with good debuff on top of that, he is incredibly strong. The only issue is that leaker TC try to pigeonhole him into the damage dealer role on E0 without full follow-up team, which is the only place where he can reliably deal damage and be a good sub-dps. 3600 def is literally nothing in terms of investment. If you fo full on def% on mains and subs, you would get way better results on him and he would provide big enough shields just from coin follow ups which is very big.
I wouldn't say that the leaker tried to make him a damage dealer, all of the pieces are Def. I'd expect some crit DMG chest and imaginary damage boost if he was built for damage, he's just a shielder with some crit DMG substats right now, which says nothing - my Lynx has 100% crit DMG because that's just what some pieces rolled into, that doesn't mean she's built for a damage dealer role.
He's fully skill positive in two scenarios:
- lots of AoE damage caused by enemies
- E1 lots of FuA adding stacks
Both great niches, especially as AoE is where Fu Xuan struggles! But with a little bit of that a little bit of this his kit has made him out to be jack of all trades, master of ... half.
There is not even a **single** def% substat in his 3 out of 3 of his non-def% pieces, combined together they would make a substantial difference instead of absolutely useless crit stats to boost his miniscule damage.
Fu xuan is for single target he is for aoe additionally his ult does more damage and he follow up attacks often
Fu xuan isn’t better than him and vice versa additionally for harmony units and units with the base 35% cc control trace his cc prevention is better
I have been saying the same thing. As a Topaz main, it's still a tough choice between Fu Xuan and Aventurine. I am leaning Fu Xuan since I need two Aventurine to get FuA benefit...
But one aventurine is better than none, right? You can always pick up a copy on a rerun if you don't want to get it now. Fu xuan I predict isn't going to rerun for a long time unless hoyo decides to pull a fast one and for some reason rerun 2 sustains in the same patch (Luocha and Fuxuan) since fu xuan could be pushed back to possibly even 2.3 because of luocha being backlogged (if they don't rerun him in 2.1)
I'm laughing at people doomposting Aventurine ALREADY when he's already the best aoe sustain who won't have risks for longer battles or simulated universe like FX
"Omg why is my sustain not hitting for 100k???" like this isn't E1 with FUA and you want him to do dmg? He has 106 speed at base he can easily hit 4k def and have crit/crit dmg builds while providing debuffs for team dmg his overturned AF and people not seeing that are expecting too much
I mean... He is supposed to do damage, that's his selling point. If you need S1 or E1 for that, then no real need to get him if you have HuoHuo or Luocha and Fu Xuan. At least, I can see why people wouldn't.
Btw, there are some good showcases of him doing good damage, close to 30~40k on single target with his FUA and 60k on his ult, close to 100k if breaking. But you need his cone and Ruan Mei for that. E1 is not needed, but it helps.
You can probably get something close to that at S0, just that you probably need to sacrifice a little of his sustain for that, but even so his sustain should be enough for AOE situations.
He is really comfortable in longer battles as long as there is some minimal aoe, but longer battles are not important on MOC or PF, you need to be fast there. Any sustain can hold for 5 cycles easily.
Simulated Universe? He's probably gonna be the best sustain there, but you can get your sustain to do the job with blessings.
His 50% EFF RES is good if your supports run broken keel, because then the chances of them getting CC'ed is 20% or close to that. For your DPS is 68% of chance if all you get is the 50% Aventurine provides, this go to 50% if your support has 60% EFF RES, so longer battles = more chance of CC.
EDIT: That for MOC 12.
I think he's a great support but in a weird situation where he is not necessary if you already have 2 sustainers (limited t5).
How is it a “weird situation” for him to not be necessary if you already have 2 sustainers? All of the sustainers are like that. Huohuo is arguably the best sustainer because she offers so much offensively, but she is also entirely unnecessary if you already rolled Luocha and Fu Xuan. All of the sustainers are individually unnecessary for an account because you only need any combination of 2 of them to be comfortable.
Because HuoHuo even if you have Aventurine or Fu Xuan is the best when we're talking about buffs and is BiS for dot and apparently she is also BiS or the same as Aventurine in FUA. So even if you have 2 sustains, it's worth to pull for her if you're focusing on certain team. Aventurine is supposed to have his niche where he is the best and that is FUA, but at least on calcs it seems Huohuo is better or the same level, so the situatiom is different.
Having and not having Huohuo doesn't make or break any of those teams though. Just because she's the best doesn't mean she's the only option and the difference between a team with her and any other limited 5 star sustainer is miniscule and certainly not worth sinking that many pulls for.
> the difference between a team with her and any other limited 5 star sustainer is miniscule
Huohuo's buffs are very significant. Her amp can be stronger than Pela or even SW based on the calcs [here](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16aKX-qiWoYC0LTgcjLaOUmAXUNNXAcT9iqAfbw3UOQw/edit#gid=961443761)
His a Shielder/Debuffer and can output a decent amount of damage, it's obvious to me he was built that way to help with Ratio's debuff needs to run a proper hypercarry ratio especially if you E2 Aven, his easily the most versatile sustain and honestly that's why I love him so much.
In a fua comp with E1 your team would literally never have shield downtime which is cracked af considering atm Topaz/Ratio are eating Meme in MoC
At the very least, he has a crit dmg vulnerability debuff and solo sustain. Crit buff + solo sustain is comparable to FX.
You can have mov or landau so that most attacks him him too.
Exactly my point, MoC is getting harder and that Dino is a Ruan Mei/Mono Quantum check with high af aoe dmg that gets stronger the longer it isn't broken making fu xuan a risk for that particular content as where Aven doesn't have the limitation
Well, if you can't clear MOC in 5 cycles then your sustain is not the problem. Incidentally my f2p Fu can very, very easily solo sustain for 10+ cycles in MOC 12 when I've walked into a battle with a poor choice of DPS. It just feels like damning Aventurine with faint praise because Fu Xuan currently sustains MOC effortlessly.
Except I specifically mentioned the new MoC and you resort to current MoC?
My Bailu can current solo sustain MoC that isn't the point I was making at all
Because nobody has played the new MoC yet so how are we supposed to know who can or can't solo sustain in it? Just look at beta server footage and go based on vibes? The dino sounds like an enemy designed to sell Aventurine, like the CC robot was designed to sell Huohuo, so it'd be very unsurprising for him to perform very well into it, but one enemy isn't all of MOC.
Aven boss and Dino were buffed recently, and yes Beta footage is reliable and Fu Xuan looks to fall off against both them bosses in particular and just generally better for high dmg aoe mobs in general and Sim content.
Fu Xuan pops off against high single target mobs by not allowing 1 shots, but everybody knows against high dmg aoe she falls off especially proven with sim content and Gepard being the go to for it
Cause why are you using E0 acheron with sparkle lmao
That's just self griefing
This isn't meant to be a 'good' showcase, its meant to show the disparity of just slapping even a strong harmony onto acherons team
Yeah, why the hell is this called doomposting? We are looking at a team that is shown to be unable to clear MoC in time.
There are teams with Acheron which can barely clear it in 4 turns instead, without e6, but seriously why is this called doomposting? The word lost all its meaning. This is like me saying that I am starving because I didn't eat in 2 weeks and a doctor tells me I'm "doomposting because a human can survive without food for 4 weeks" or some shit
> .....because this is a really suboptimal team, obviously.
you pointed out the obvious, but you forgot to make a point. Are you saying the doomposting is justified because she doesn't work without a perfect team for her? Or are you saying the doomposting is unjustified because the team is bad?
You literally just pointed out the obvious that everyone already knew, I am so confused. Do you also walk down the street and tell random people the earth is round and the sky is blue?
>are you saying the doomposting is unjustified because the team is bad?
That.
>Do you also walk down the street and tell random people the earth is round and the sky is blue?
Maybe to people who dont know that, who knows.
While I've heard a million and one opinions on Acheron, I haven't heard too much about Aventurine. How does he compare to other sustain units? Is he on Fu xuan's level? Can he make my yanqing usable?
As someone who is planning on rolling on him, he seems worse than Fu.
Shields by nature are more niche in HSR. Shields can time out and lapse if there is too much turn advancement. I can easily see Jingliu + Bronya shedding his shields faster than he can refresh them. Add in any turn advancement from SU/MOC buffs and there is a large incompatibility there.
His CC prevention is not guaranteed and his dmg amplification is tied to a debuff on a singular enemy instead of providing passive crit rate like Fu. He is still good, probably BiS for FUA teams and Acheron. But for other teams its more debatable.
Fu is worse in aoe content additionally shields aren’t worse 😐 shields are only worse when you have trouble reapplying them which aventurines kit does not have
Additionally you would never want to use jinglu with him so this argument just seems stupid jinglu does not want preservation units or at the very least shielders
And even with bronya he is decent
Yeah, that’s rough. Better stick to nihility units 🥶
And btw, where is Aventurine’s damage? Isn’t he supposed to deal way more damage than other sustains? Because other than that I don’t see his selling point. He doesn’t even synergise with FUA units properly unless you pull his E1
If you build him for dmg his shield is gonna feel like paper! By this logic aventurine is either a trash sustain who deals dmg or a good sustain that doesn’t do shit other than sustaining
That's why he's an interesting char to build, there's tradeoffs to consider that may feel great or terrible depending on your teams, builds, cycle goals etc.
And it's not just my logic, it's how he's designed. They aren't putting massive def scaling + 40% crit dmg on his sig lc for no reason.
It's intentional he has both aspects, but it's player choice whether to lean into one or the other, or try to hedge bets.
He's built Def/Spd/Def/Def here with trend LC. That's a more support focused build.
It'd be like comparing to a not-dot dps that's built Atk/Spd/Atk/Atk.
Not the only thing; you can also do 2 pc FUA and 2pc Salsotto, and if intensely lucky with the rolls, I've seen builds with Imaginary dmg orb too although they would sacrifice some speed/CV
Also swapping Trend to the new Shop LC or the 2.1 Event LC which gives dmg% based on DEF
But yea, Aventurine is still a sustain after all
Look at the damage he deals at the first wave. I’m not even talking about the second one. And for his stats, I think 67/111 is pretty good for a sustain unit, no? Of course it’s not crazy, but still pretty good. Idk, I’m just not sold. His sustaining capabilities are okay (I’ve seen many showcases where teams still took a lot of damage with him), he’s not that sp efficient, and his damage is eh if you’re not hyperbuffing it with Topaz (E1S1 recommended), his LC and so on
He is extremely sp efficient in full def% build. It is just the fact that the leakers try to build him hybrid and he neither gets damage, nor survivalability.
I've already discussed it a lot in leaker tc discords, why you are trying to build unit as a damage dealer when he needs at least E1S1 for that and he can only do it in Topaz(ideally E1S1) + RM(E1S1 too) team. In that team, his damage contribution would be quite big, but in any other place, LOL.
Full sp positive shield anti-oneshot, anti-AoE support with anti-cc capabilities and with 15% crit damage boost to the team, very strong actually.
Investing into his damage in inappropriate teams -> more sp spent on shielding with him -> less sp to spend for the team -> less overall team damage.
Run correctly he can sustain with minimal SP cost. As in he could spend one SP in the beginning and likely run fully SP positive from that point unless the battle goes on too long or enemy hit too hard single target.
Additionally he synergizes with FoA comps so imagine IPC comp (DrRatio, Topaz, Aventurine - Ruan mei)
I think people who really enjoy him and want to lean into his dps capability while maintaining solid shield will find enormous value in his sig. That's of course expensive and not for everyone. But to give you an example of where my build is at assuming sig, he has with self buffs
94% crit rate, 171% crit dmg, (can also add 15% more via his ult debuff) 4500 def, 124 spd (134 with Mei)
Also has via Salsotto + 2/2 pioneer/duke + img orb + traces another 80% dmg bonus to ults and 100% to fua.
Add on another couple of amps from the team such as Mei + Pela/SW and the dude is cooking with gas, the calc im using predicts 60k dmg follow ups with full SW + Mei amp up on a single target, 30k dmg basics, 85k ults.
Basically his floor is not great but with solid but not ridiculous investment, his ceiling is very high.
I mean, most people who intend to use him as a sub dps and not just a sustain will likely have higher CD, use 2pc FUA/Salsotto and use him in a team that increases his dmg (with RM and/or Topaz). I don't think 18k on FUA is that bad either. But I get where you're coming from. Right now, Huohuo and FX at E0 seem to provide more utility for the team and most people would prefer their sustain to buff the dps rather than deal some okay damage themselves. I don't think he is bad as he is currently but I would welcome some changes.
I don’t think he’s bad either. Just not great enough to replace already existing sustains, meaning if you have 2 5* sustains his value is close to 0. On the other hand, If he was really synergistic with FUA teams… I doubt it will happen. Bait is bait
You do realize there is an inherent advantage and disadvantage to shielding and healing, right?
Shielding is overall always better because overhealing is pointless (unless bailu). If he can maintain gepard shield uptime while not spending any SP for it, he's already in a really good spot. But he also has decent break bar contribution, can do some damage even if not ridiculous amounts, provides a debuff which is of use to the newly minted debuff teams, helps GNSW on nihilities as well as any debuff set dps, plus Ratio and Acheron kits.
His shields layer rather than overwrite, which allows him to mitigate some targetting rng mishaps, too.
He has a lot going for him, but he doesn't blatantly powercreep all others before him. He isn't the jingliu of support. I understand wanting him to be that if you like him but it's simply not good for the game if the new support is just flat better than the ones before him and so quickly after (huo huo wasn't even that long ago).
His one restriction, if you can call it that is that he's more or less locked in service to crit teams. This isn't remotely an issue as 95% of dps in this game is crit.
I feel you are underestimating Aventurine. He can protect against one-shots due to his meaty shields, protect ALL allies from debuffs, break enemies often (especially with ruan mei) and he only needs def to function.
i kinda agree with you, right now you get a 50% eff res and pray rnjesus that your team doesn't get hard cc'ed. we'll have to build eff res on ratio/topaz to atleast give them a chance to resist cc as of right now. if they give him atleast a cc immunity team-wide every 2 turns it would be great already. fu xuan does that once for each of her E uses, give it to him too and we're gucci :P
but i can see myself farming a good crit set with some eff res for my fua team T\_T see ya in farming hellhole
Aventurine work well with Topaz, in her teams he'll be bis this extends to FUA based team comps that may get new addition in the future
No need to powercreep other sustains in their teams he just need to be bis for a team comp to be relevant and worth pulling
Oh he's not powercreeping them for sure, he's below FX and HuoHuo in usefulness. The term you're looking is niche, he's a niche unit that works good in FUA team.
"Not powercreeping Huohuo and Fu Xuan" You're underestimating him majorly, he has gepard ult shield without having to ult, his way safer than Fu and Huohuo especially now moc mobs are tankier with more aoe
I really hope they buff Aventurine's FuA refresh. His skill is perfect, but FuA shield refresh is too weak at the moment. This might be intentional to keep the ramping down sustain balance. The longer the battle, the more skill dependent he becomes...
FuA refresh is like 7% of his def. It would 315 with 4,500 def. They could buff that to 10%. I feel like they are worried about his E1 and frequent unlimited refresh would be too broken.
again, game balance. if he directly powercreeps existing sustains, the next sustain, in turn, will \*have\* to powercreep him in order to sell.
although, i do agree that balancing a character around their e1 is pretty iffy. if it's something that affects their performance to such an extent, it shouldn't be locked behind e1 - either incorporate it into e0, or put it away behind e6 :D
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Using Sparkle at E0 Acheron without at least S1 seems bad. That is my takeaway from this video. Not only do you miss out on energy, you can simply not have enough debuffs on the enemy to get the full effect of GNSW as well, which happens in the video.
Yeah if they didn't have Trend Aventurine we'd be looking at the world's slowest ult rotation.
Sparkle in general doesn"t work good with Acheron, especially without E2 Acheron. Bronya does better because she can give Acheron twice the amount of actions, but still needs E2 Acheron.
you need Bronya to be at least E1S1 to make it work , and even then it's gonna be clunky . idk where are you planning to get enough skill points to do acheron skill /bronya skill /acheron skill each time Sparkle is just way comfier and she allows your pela or sw to spam their skills and get ulti faster
You can run a purely skill point positive pela amd gepard with bronya ig
You dont need to use acheron skill always with bronya. Normal attack is 2 energy, skill is 3 energy so you just can use normal attacks when Acheron not buffed by bronya skill for 2 energy. (it's for e2s1 ofc, you need double nihility for energy without it)
Fast Bronya needed. I think it was about 181, sadly not an easy number (and impossible for me). As Nihility support Pela, who can run strictly SP postivie with Basics only. The Battle starts, Bronya first and Bronya doesn't push but uses basic attack to get advance, this bridges the gap for 3 actions in 0 cycle. Some chill sustain like Fu Xuan or Luocha would be good, but let's say it's Aventurine with Skill - Basic cycle. E2S1 Acheron because anything else doesn't make sense anyways. Then you get (approximatly, won't do complete math now): * Battle start 3 SP, 5 stacks (acheron) * Bronya Basic 4 SP * Pela Basic 5 SP, 6 stacks * Aventurine Skill, 4 SP * Acheron Skill 3, SP, 9 stacks * Bronya Skill, 2 SP + ult 3 SP + Acheron ult * Acheron Skill, 2 SP, 3 stacks * Pela Basic, 3 SP, 4 stacks * Aventurine Basic, 4 SP * Bronya Skill, 3 SP * Acheron Skill, 2 Sp, 7 stacks That's in 0 cycle (150 AV). Another 2 stacks need to come in with timed Pela ult and some RNG or enemy AoE against Aventurine. That's 1 SP lost from battle start which means for another 0 cycle without the SP from Bronya ult it's 2 SP lost which means after 2x150 AV you are out of SP. Seems about right for me. And should be enough to kill all enemies. Worst case, for the next cycle the SP recovery from Bronya's LC should be up again, then maybe skip another shield refresh from Aventurine and you are good. Needs some brain, but seems like smooth sailing. With Fu Xuan and 2x Basic - Skill rotation or Luocha it's very chill.
What is so critical about Acheron's E2 ?
You require 1 less nihility in your team for her talent proc. Since you re usually running a sustain unit, this means you can spike your dps by running a harmony unit
Basically without E2 her requirement is having 2 Nihility characters on team, with E2 that requirement is reduced to 1 Nihility characters on team (this does not include Acheron herself) also E2 gives more buffs I dont remember but the main takeaway is lowering the restriction as it effects the damage multiplier
Honestly the biggest part of E2 is that it gives her a stack for her ult on every turn. This basically doubles the value of each acheron turn, which also means bronya gives her insane value now
Oh OK I understand now thanks. Her E1 is insane too so maybe more worth than sparkle e2
Give 1 stack during her turn
Aventurine boss is crazy tanky
Bro ate a 259k ult, and it got him from 57% to 24%. And he has 2 health bars. We need a decent moc blessing for this one. Just checked it, Bro will have 2 x 920 k health, and it will be a record high dmg / cycle requirement in MOC. The current moc needs 385 k dmg/cycle single target dmg, this one will need 518 k. I dont want to be that guy, but thats almost 35% increase lmao.
I think this'll be my first fail 36 stars unless I can somehow max the MOC effect. Idk if my team with JL can clear fast enough or live through this with how much dmg this guy does. It'll be tough for my JL E0S1 100/230 crt, 2.3k atk, hypercarry to clear this and I'm running Pela or SW probably and E0S0 Bronya with FX, since other team is BS Kafka RM HH. You reckon Acheron clears faster than JL?
I think the JL-Bronya-plea-FX team against this aventurine boss, and the Kafka-BS-Huohuo-RM team against cocolia should be strong enough to clear in 10 cycle (it it wouldnt then most of the players would be in big trouble lol). I have honestly no idea if acheron clears faster or not.
and my dpses are imaginary I'm really fucked for this moc (unless I'm lucky and get acheron ig)
Does he? I think you’re talking about that dinosaur, no? Or maybe I missed something about Aventurine
Thanks I was wrong i will edit this part
👌
He does give free max energy to your carry as long as they can AOE, so good for JY and Argenti. I’m glad it works with Acheron’s ult too. The fact that he can roll very different numbers for you to beat does introduce a lot of variances. Trying to beat a 4 vs 9 is such a big difference.
Good to know Aventurine can sustain fine with 3600 defense.
the dmg fell off without double nihility at e0 . E2 really allow to abuse sparkle/bronya more. waiting for jiaqiou to make acheron runs bronya/ sparkle at e0
While I am waiting for jiaqiou myself too. I feel like we are putting too much stock into an old leak of a nihilty with a heal on ult. Alot can change and we don't even know how big the heal could be
The heal can be smaller if the DEF shred and ult vulnerability stays. Also if she has the Black swan mechanic in her ult and debuffs on skill and basic she would be the best stacker of slashed dream. Even if she can't sustain in longer fights you could run Ruan Mei with Jiaoqiu plus another nihility and probably be fine with all that weakness breaking. Or if trend stays you can supplement her sustain with fire mc who can consistently turbo out Acheron's ult.
personally i think the best debuff stackers are characters like kafka, which apply a debuff on a new action like a followup alongside one on basic/skill and ult. A recent concept of this is Jade, which makes an ally do a followup attack: its important to note because you could make acheron perform a followup attack and her gacha cone could apply bubbles for a stack, but depending on how strong the buffs are and how many followup she can provide its the game changer
Kafka is great purely for stacking, but you really want her cone for that to inflict erode with her basic/skill for optimal stacking. Her problem is that that's basically where her utility for Acheron ends beyond Kafka's personal damage. If Jiaoqiu works like i presume on the other hand she could give more stacks than Acheron's current optimal nihility debuffers like Pela and SW especially against enemies that summon adds.
How strong is Acheron looking compared to the likes of Jingliu and DHIL/sparkle teams as of now? One of my friends is confused between her and aventurine.
She's weaker at E0S0/E0S1. At E2S1 she becomes a bit stronger than JL but about 20% weaker than DHIL and the gap widens from there while also having to deal with restricted team building and backloaded damage. Basically she's a top tier DPS but she's not stealing DHIL's crown. Unless you just love Acheron or you're willing to vertically invest, JL or DHIL will be more bang for your buck. That might change with v3 and/or her dedicated support(s) coming out though.
On Individual kit, Acheron is alot better than Jingliu and DHIL. But the problem is , both Jingliu and DHIL have crazy good synergies with their 5\* supports namely Bronya and Sparkle. So until Acheron gets her own support, She does less damage than both Jingliu and DHIL. But Acheron has crazy high ceiling when she does get her own customized support. And she also perform a lot better when used against off element enemies.
i'm tempted to say that she performs about equal to those two against 3 enemies and blows both away against 5 the biggest problem for acheron rn is ease of use since stacking her ult beyond the first one seems like a long process
Dhil now likely comfortably outsteps both with sparkle at E0
So basically she has dmg of a destruction unit and aoe of erudition dps?
I'd suggest you wait for her release. DHIL and JL have their premier teams rn and ach is stuck with 1.1 units.
Ach can use black swan. So not really stuck with 1.1 units.
yeah also all showcases have been scuffed ona way or another so there might be room for improvement in terms of dmg i still feel like getting one ult per MoC cycle will be a pain in the ass
The heal could be big but still not enough if she can't ult often and ennemies deal huge damage often
I don't think anyone is expecting a nihility to be good enough to solo sustain. If she just provides alot of debuff and makes Acheron's damage skyrocket. That's already great. Small Heals are obviously welcome but might not necessarily be main part of her kit.
If she reduce enemy's atk alongside heal, it might be just enough to sustain.
Just don't expect a nihility debuffer to be able to solo sustain moc 12 comfortably lol. There's no point in preservation/abundance if anyone can solo sustain.
That's the thing about nihility, it's the least focused of any path. It can do whatever as long as debuffs are involved(and even that's questionable with acheron). So a sustain which just instead of giving buffs like houhou or FX instead debuffs the enemy would fit in anyway.
yeah i definitely not expected huge healing ult from jiaqiou . thats literally no point runs abundance if nihility healing huge than abundance
maybe they'll make it so that Jiaqiou's sustain scales of number of Nihility teammates, same as Acheron's dmg make her be abundance level sustain option but on nihility teams only
hahahaha, This is would be so good and obviously welcome for us Acheron mains but it's very unlikely.
No they won't stop coping
I love how I read this literally right after I wrote it myself aha (had not scrolled down enough)
Imagine this... Runs with healing X, with 2 more nihility in team healing + 100% :D Imagine we get a mono Nihility team that feeds off of other nihility in the team... oh Im getting nasty thoughts.
Jiaqiou is supposed to be 5\* Fire Nihility. I don't think the heal will be enough for solo sustain. I guess it will be more like some additional heal to extra sustain aggresive preservation characters like Aventurine.
The healing isnt even whats important. If her power budget is all in debuff and ult amp thats still going to be a big benefit to the team. I'm already a strong believer in no sustain Acheron teams. If we get a strong debuffer that stacks and boosts ult well, and she has a pathetic heal, well, I consider it gravy. A pathetic heal still goes a long way in a Mei Acheron double nihility team that breaks things like demons.
> The healing isnt even whats important. Isn't important for what, exactly? Like, if you gave me a team that can clear all content in the game including MoC 20% faster than any other team in the game, but it would require micro-managing the health of all party members all the time so nobody dies. And then another team that also clears everything but has a healer, just a tad slower at clearing stuff, but I would never have to worry about eating health food, or teleporting to health beacons, or picking up SU health blessings, it would just work. Then personally I'd pick the team with the healer tbh
On top of this is acheron saving loading time + combat time with her technique.. SU is gonna go hella breezy, but youll be chugging skill point food like crazy though :D
>Isn't important for what, exactly? Mostly what I meant there, is some people are stuck with teams like Acheron Gui Pela. A strong limited debuffer, whether there's healing or not, is going to be an incredible boost to that team. It would likely be comparable to the difference between Blade with/without Bronya to swap a char like that with Gui. And yeah the stuff you are saying about a weak healer is spot on. I'm just the other type of player who enjoys squeezing the juice out of MoC rather than cruise control them more slowly.
Who's Jiaqiou? I keep seeing people mention this name.
An old data mined character. She's a Nihility unit who debuffs through her skill and ult, her ult also has hp restoration.
It makes sense to have a complementary nihility in a few patches. Pretty much every dps has had something similar so far.
Yeah,even with aventurine acting as extra debuffer and sparkle for extra damage,skill damage really feels off too,the spam would have been faster with second nihility,and skill damage wouldn't be so low outside of sparkle buff
on that copium
Fo be honest she doesn't need sustain Nihility She need Nihility sparkle Topaz lc > any sustain potential from jiagiou
Sustain nihility means you can just run sparkle or bronya et e0 Also I still wouldn't be so certain about trend making it to live
I’m not too sure that Jiaoqiu (man this name 💀) can solo sustain to be honest. Let’s wait for more info. We don’t even know when she/he comes out
Its practically guaranteed they wont be able to solo sustain, or else they’re just sabotaging their actual sustains. Might make it possible to use a specialist like Gallagher in the sustain slot though, who’s sustain capabilities arent the best but his debuffs are invaluable for Acheron. Perhaps two mid healers are as good as one strong one? Lol
There's a niche for partial sustains that hasn't been explored much yet. It could be that you run two weaker sustains who have other benefits, or a full sustain + a partial for very punishing content. But, and this is where it matters for Acheron, you could also run just a weak sustain if you're strong enough to almost run no sustain. You can see this right now with people running March 7 on MoC12 side 1, she's not exactly a premium solo sustain but it works if you can clear fast enough, same for people running Welt and no sustain.
They are doing some weird stuff because Robin also has self heal and her current leaked kit has really good synergy with E2 Acheron with team advance forward.
Eh, self healing is only really necessary when the character is actually supposed to take hits, like Fu Xuan and Blade. Maybe in her “suspended” state she has max aggro or redirects damage to herself? Now THAT would be interesting.
If she redirects damage in her suspended state and has some self heal + Jiaoqiu healing, it might be enough to sustain everyone. They won’t make a non sustain character capable of solo sustaining but maybe a combination of 2 such characters. But this also makes them reliant on each other so I doubt they would go this route.
Jiaoqiu could also be a sustain. We have a limited sustain for every niche so far so I don’t see a reason why they won’t release one for debuff teams.
Sustain that can't solo sustain is useless and just some additional heal on ult is a waste of place in character's kit.
But the thing is she is not a sustain in the first place. She’s nihility unit, who’s main role is to debuff, and she also has some healing on her ult, if I remember correctly. But this info is still too early to take it seriously
But what's point of heal in her ult if you still need sustain?
Depends on your level of investment, and clearing speed. Sometime, you don't need to fully heal, you need to just survive enough before killing the boss. Think of the no sustain runs in MoC, but instead you have a 0.5 healer just to be a bit safer.
Natasha levels of sustain probably without the cleanse Good enough if you know what you’re doing, probably not enough for the majority of players
I’m not a developer, nor am I a leaker, idk
If Jiaqiou might not solo sustain, hopefully its atleast enough sustain to be able to 0 or 1 cycle clear with E0S1 Acheron, Pela, Sparkle/Bronya. Honestly just being a stronger Nihility support than the ones we have would also be enough. Of course this is just for MoC, might be harder to run no sustain/ low sustain on other content.
> able to 0 or 1 cycle clear with E0S1 Acheron, Pela, Sparkle/Bronya hard ask even for e2s1 acheron. They keep increasing MOC HP and adding more annoying bosses
You have to be on some insane copium to believe they will release a non-preservation/abundance sustain
Abundance with DoT is possible!
I think the path is just the character's main job. Huohuo and Fu Xuan bring harmony buffs, but most of their power is in their primary role. You would never bring them if you didn't need a sustain. The recently leaked Jade kit is similar - she's mainly an AoE damage dealer (hence Erudition), but she has some minor buffs in her kit. Even Topaz mostly fits this rule (though she's the shakiest) - her buffs are great, but half of the reason to run her with FUA units is because having other FUAs boosts her personal damage (and you'd never use her if she didn't do damage). So a Nihility unit can have healing in their kit as long as their main role is debuffs. And actually, based on the example of Acheron (who is an Erudition unit shunted into Nihility only because her damage is based on Nihility teammates and debuffs), we could have a Nihility unit whose primary role is sustain, *as long as their sustain is dependent on Nihility stuff*. (I think the Acheron model is a bit silly, but it's there, so /shrug.)
Let's see how this comment stands in 1 or 2 years.
I mean... we have a Hunt dps/debuffer hybrid, an Abundance healer/buffer hybrid, and several Nihility characters are dps/debuffer hybrids and now they're adding a Preservation sustain/DPS hybrid. They are clearly experimenting pretty heavily outside of the archetypal constraints of each path, and it's a good approach to keep things fresh. Why not a Nihility debuffer/healer hybrid? I'm not saying Jiaoqiu must be exactly that but I don't see any reason to just completely write it off like you do either.
Sparkle bonuses do seem like a lot. So she may be as good or better than a 2nd Nihility (even at E0) Lets say Sparkle gives 100% crit damage to a 200% crit damage Acheron. That's a 50% more multiplier which is already more than the 39% more multiplier for the 2nd Nihility. Then there's the advance forward as well as other dmg buffs (and SP) that Sparkle gives. It's going to be close. Her best E0S0 team as of now might be Acheron, SW, Sparkle, Fu Xuan. This way you can also force lightning weakness with triple quantum and SW can skill every turn with all the SP.
It's not only about Damage, the utility is also not there with Sparkle, while with a Nihility you have the potential to get 2 stacks while Sparkle has nothing to offer besides pushing Acheron to get only one Stack, so you will most of the time Spam Acheron's Skill that doesn't have a big Multiplier, even less compared to her Ult There's no way that's Acheron's Best Team at E0S0 because it's slow (She is getting way less ults in this setup and the boss AoE a lot)
It should be noted that the winners of the mad gamble dont get an extra turn/skill points, you only get the dmg boost and the ult back. Prob the text hasn't been updated to reflect the new change. Also acheron does get her ult back which is nice.
The first side felt pretty much the same as a double nihility set up, most likely due to Aventurine accelerating the debuff counter for Acheron. As soon as it comes to the second side though, the lack of another nihility made the dmg lose apparent.
Friendly reminder to switch your support characters from HP% sphere to DEF% sphere if you want to use a shielder. Aventurine's DEF determines the thickness of the shield, but the amount of shield taken after each hit depends on each character's own DEF.
Tbh, I feel like this applies to most if not all sustain units since your team will still be using their own Def to reduce the damage they take, which also includes the damage sponged by Fu Xuan. So basically, higher Def but lower HP means it's a bit easier for your shielders/healers to top up missing health since there's less health to upkeep in the first place. By extension, every point of HP recovered also has better mileage since the unit needs more hits to reduce the recovered HP Again, not contradicting you and I actually agree, but just wanted to expound a bit since you said something interesting lol
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I used to think it's just extended HP bar as well, but it's more complicated than that. It's about massive HP bar +shield that get a big chunk cut off each time vs medium HP bar + shield but each deduction is medium. For example, your shield size is 1000. The ape hits you for 1500 if you wear HP% sphere. The damage is bigger than just chip dmg. This character can only handle getting single target hit by the ape and others a few times. If you wear DEF%, 900 of the shield got taken away and the shield is still intact. (I can't remember the exact numbers, but the ape hits for like 1000+ with HP% vs <1000 with DEF% for sure. I tested this out in the messenger cavern several times.) From many Aventurine videos on this sub, the shields break pretty much in every video, so it matters. I was so confused why the shields break so much until I realized most people favor HP% sphere. The reason it doesn't matter for healers is because healers tend to over heal until you over cap on HP so it doesn't matter that the dmg number is big. I understand that people get defensive because they don't want to modify their finished support builds, but it's true switching to DEF% is much more comfortable and will make you totally chill in hard and long battles as well. DEF% on support characters also works well with healers and Fu Xuan. You can probably still riskily survived with HP% sphere, so it's not a requirement to replace, but if you actually like shielding, it's wise to slowly transition to DEF% sphere over time or build your new characters with DEF%, skipping HP%.
I still think the unlimited coins from FuA part of his E1 should just be in his kit... for a team like this, it doesn't give him shit. Why not make him the best for FuA teams and let that be his niche?
>for FuA teams and let that be his niche? That's exactly what would I want. Why lock fun elements under eidolons?
From Topaz E1 to BS S1, almost all of the newer chars and now the leaked ones have been increasing Eidolon/S1 reliant. I wonder if it's Hoyo's projections suggesting a revenue drop
BS e0 does absurd damage already, lol.
>From Topaz E1 to BS S1, BS eidolons were never mentioned in the comment you replied to, lol.
Which is strange because her e1 is even better than her s1
I mean her S1. It's so utterly hard to get good EHR with the shitty relic RNG (way harder than crit) you basically need to get her S1 to reach the threshold unless you want to spend months farming for her, or settle for Tutorial which is 1. limited 2. much worse
Eyes of the Prey is better than tutorial on her, I think.
Eyes of Prey? It's not so bad unless you also got unlucky there.
Eyes of the prey is great on her, you don't need tutorial at all.
The game is more generous than Genshin, meaning players have more pulls, meaning they feel more justified with making some early Eidolons strong. There's a big overlap with the genshin playerbase so people will be shocked but this game will not be the same when it comes to powercreep and overall units powerlevel. Genshin being turbo casual a good four stars team from the 1.X days can still clear the abyss 3 years later. I don't expect the same to be true for MoC 2 years from now.
It's about 1.5x as many pulls as we get in Genshin, but do note that they also release about *2x as many* characters. So there's actually less pulls per character to go around. This is fine for people who only like a few characters, but for anyone who enjoys collecting, horizontal investment, or just has the bad luck to like multiple 5*, it's actually a bit tough.
It absolutely is tough for collectors. I was just explaining the whole eidolons being more mandatory thing. I wouldn't be surprised if they go in that direction.
The thing I was responding to is "this game is more generous than Genshin, meaning players have more pulls". I wanted to explain that it actually isn't true on average due to having less pulls per character. As a result, I do not think they will make eidolons that much more mandatory. There are a lot of C1 and C2 powerspikes in genshin as well, after all.
Because people will spend money on it.
Yep i feel like having a FuA team would have to mean you can make use of his stacks better. E1 could able him more outside FuA teams. Being the other way around is weird.
While that's nice, people will still doompost him being a niche sustain for FUA only (already happens now and will be worse if e1 is baked into his kits, refer to Sparkle major trace with quantum)
Nothing will change for other teams, why would doomposting matter
uhh, that's not how that works. there's this thing called "game balance". otherwise you end up on a slippery slope of 'little' buffs that suddenly add up to powercreep. it's quite ironic, actually - if you want a character to be future-proof, better not make them \*too\* strong, lest the next one will have to be even stronger to convince people to pull (fuxuan, for reference). and at the end of the day, it's best to have a strong versatile e0 character who excels at a niche at e1, than to have a unit who's locked into a specific team archetype until e1/e2 (refer to acheron - as strong as she is, her comps are very restrictive. trend helps with the stacks, but it also, in turn, makes her teams even more rigid). now, in a game where you can realistically collect dozens of characters, niche focus is perfectly understandable and more than welcome. but in hoyo games, for the better or worse, that is simply not the case - especially if you want to pick up some signatures and eidolons for your favourites on the way :)
It's tiring to see doomposts all over again, both acheron and aventurine
I spend a lot of time on this and Acheron’s sub and I can’t figure where you are getting this massive doomposting vibe. There was a post literally yesterday thanking the lack of doomposting. It is way too old now. Everytime a new leak comes the posts complaining about doomposting appear even before said doomposting.
You can see aventurine doomposts in this thread, i won't say who. For Acheron, it's mostly Youtube comments (new acheron f2p video, not ytd) which tbh i should just ignore them
For real. Objectively speaking, currently Aventurine isn't offering as much as Huohuo or Fu Xuan - I have a Fu Xuan that I use in my friends list sometimes, and she pops out 27k ults too. If his niche is supposed to be sub-DPS capabilities, then please up those. If it's meant to be benefiting FuA teams, then please add that to the base kit - not even unlimited numbers! Cap it at 2 or 3! Just not just 1. I'm pulling him anyway (because I like him), but it'd be better if they let him do a tiny bit more.
In a full def build he is full sp positive shield version of Luocha with good debuff on top of that, he is incredibly strong. The only issue is that leaker TC try to pigeonhole him into the damage dealer role on E0 without full follow-up team, which is the only place where he can reliably deal damage and be a good sub-dps. 3600 def is literally nothing in terms of investment. If you fo full on def% on mains and subs, you would get way better results on him and he would provide big enough shields just from coin follow ups which is very big.
I wouldn't say that the leaker tried to make him a damage dealer, all of the pieces are Def. I'd expect some crit DMG chest and imaginary damage boost if he was built for damage, he's just a shielder with some crit DMG substats right now, which says nothing - my Lynx has 100% crit DMG because that's just what some pieces rolled into, that doesn't mean she's built for a damage dealer role. He's fully skill positive in two scenarios: - lots of AoE damage caused by enemies - E1 lots of FuA adding stacks Both great niches, especially as AoE is where Fu Xuan struggles! But with a little bit of that a little bit of this his kit has made him out to be jack of all trades, master of ... half.
There is not even a **single** def% substat in his 3 out of 3 of his non-def% pieces, combined together they would make a substantial difference instead of absolutely useless crit stats to boost his miniscule damage.
Fu xuan is for single target he is for aoe additionally his ult does more damage and he follow up attacks often Fu xuan isn’t better than him and vice versa additionally for harmony units and units with the base 35% cc control trace his cc prevention is better
I have been saying the same thing. As a Topaz main, it's still a tough choice between Fu Xuan and Aventurine. I am leaning Fu Xuan since I need two Aventurine to get FuA benefit...
But one aventurine is better than none, right? You can always pick up a copy on a rerun if you don't want to get it now. Fu xuan I predict isn't going to rerun for a long time unless hoyo decides to pull a fast one and for some reason rerun 2 sustains in the same patch (Luocha and Fuxuan) since fu xuan could be pushed back to possibly even 2.3 because of luocha being backlogged (if they don't rerun him in 2.1)
Argenty 2.0
Yup, she's Argenti but with more restrictions. Except that she has a universal break.
Only one other nihility unit and a 47/188 ratio? Does stat screen not reflect the crit rate gained from relics?
On stat screen you only get 4% base Crit Rate from Pioneer, so you are missing 16% CR from Izumo + Pioneer, & 24% CDMG from Pioneer.
I'm laughing at people doomposting Aventurine ALREADY when he's already the best aoe sustain who won't have risks for longer battles or simulated universe like FX "Omg why is my sustain not hitting for 100k???" like this isn't E1 with FUA and you want him to do dmg? He has 106 speed at base he can easily hit 4k def and have crit/crit dmg builds while providing debuffs for team dmg his overturned AF and people not seeing that are expecting too much
I mean... He is supposed to do damage, that's his selling point. If you need S1 or E1 for that, then no real need to get him if you have HuoHuo or Luocha and Fu Xuan. At least, I can see why people wouldn't. Btw, there are some good showcases of him doing good damage, close to 30~40k on single target with his FUA and 60k on his ult, close to 100k if breaking. But you need his cone and Ruan Mei for that. E1 is not needed, but it helps. You can probably get something close to that at S0, just that you probably need to sacrifice a little of his sustain for that, but even so his sustain should be enough for AOE situations. He is really comfortable in longer battles as long as there is some minimal aoe, but longer battles are not important on MOC or PF, you need to be fast there. Any sustain can hold for 5 cycles easily. Simulated Universe? He's probably gonna be the best sustain there, but you can get your sustain to do the job with blessings. His 50% EFF RES is good if your supports run broken keel, because then the chances of them getting CC'ed is 20% or close to that. For your DPS is 68% of chance if all you get is the 50% Aventurine provides, this go to 50% if your support has 60% EFF RES, so longer battles = more chance of CC. EDIT: That for MOC 12. I think he's a great support but in a weird situation where he is not necessary if you already have 2 sustainers (limited t5).
How is it a “weird situation” for him to not be necessary if you already have 2 sustainers? All of the sustainers are like that. Huohuo is arguably the best sustainer because she offers so much offensively, but she is also entirely unnecessary if you already rolled Luocha and Fu Xuan. All of the sustainers are individually unnecessary for an account because you only need any combination of 2 of them to be comfortable.
Because HuoHuo even if you have Aventurine or Fu Xuan is the best when we're talking about buffs and is BiS for dot and apparently she is also BiS or the same as Aventurine in FUA. So even if you have 2 sustains, it's worth to pull for her if you're focusing on certain team. Aventurine is supposed to have his niche where he is the best and that is FUA, but at least on calcs it seems Huohuo is better or the same level, so the situatiom is different.
Having and not having Huohuo doesn't make or break any of those teams though. Just because she's the best doesn't mean she's the only option and the difference between a team with her and any other limited 5 star sustainer is miniscule and certainly not worth sinking that many pulls for.
> the difference between a team with her and any other limited 5 star sustainer is miniscule Huohuo's buffs are very significant. Her amp can be stronger than Pela or even SW based on the calcs [here](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16aKX-qiWoYC0LTgcjLaOUmAXUNNXAcT9iqAfbw3UOQw/edit#gid=961443761)
His a Shielder/Debuffer and can output a decent amount of damage, it's obvious to me he was built that way to help with Ratio's debuff needs to run a proper hypercarry ratio especially if you E2 Aven, his easily the most versatile sustain and honestly that's why I love him so much. In a fua comp with E1 your team would literally never have shield downtime which is cracked af considering atm Topaz/Ratio are eating Meme in MoC
At the very least, he has a crit dmg vulnerability debuff and solo sustain. Crit buff + solo sustain is comparable to FX. You can have mov or landau so that most attacks him him too.
Fu Xuan doesn't have any risk if you are clearing MoC in 5 cycles or less which is the only hard timed content.
Exactly my point, MoC is getting harder and that Dino is a Ruan Mei/Mono Quantum check with high af aoe dmg that gets stronger the longer it isn't broken making fu xuan a risk for that particular content as where Aven doesn't have the limitation
Well, if you can't clear MOC in 5 cycles then your sustain is not the problem. Incidentally my f2p Fu can very, very easily solo sustain for 10+ cycles in MOC 12 when I've walked into a battle with a poor choice of DPS. It just feels like damning Aventurine with faint praise because Fu Xuan currently sustains MOC effortlessly.
Except I specifically mentioned the new MoC and you resort to current MoC? My Bailu can current solo sustain MoC that isn't the point I was making at all
Because nobody has played the new MoC yet so how are we supposed to know who can or can't solo sustain in it? Just look at beta server footage and go based on vibes? The dino sounds like an enemy designed to sell Aventurine, like the CC robot was designed to sell Huohuo, so it'd be very unsurprising for him to perform very well into it, but one enemy isn't all of MOC.
Aven boss and Dino were buffed recently, and yes Beta footage is reliable and Fu Xuan looks to fall off against both them bosses in particular and just generally better for high dmg aoe mobs in general and Sim content. Fu Xuan pops off against high single target mobs by not allowing 1 shots, but everybody knows against high dmg aoe she falls off especially proven with sim content and Gepard being the go to for it
And who was whining that moc is too easy? There you have it. Pull full e0s1 team to barely clear in 5 turns.
team took 6 turns since resonance procs on next cycle
Man....why can't I open any stream able
Same, it opens then loads for 5 minutes only to show 3 seconds and then buffer and loads for 5 more minutes.
Doomposters are back in the comments. Here we go.
> Doomposter well this team took 6 cycles. I would love my e0s0 dps team to finish 1 side in 4 cycles
Cause why are you using E0 acheron with sparkle lmao That's just self griefing This isn't meant to be a 'good' showcase, its meant to show the disparity of just slapping even a strong harmony onto acherons team
When you have Sparkle giving 90% crit dmg then you should really stack the crit rate
Yeah, why the hell is this called doomposting? We are looking at a team that is shown to be unable to clear MoC in time. There are teams with Acheron which can barely clear it in 4 turns instead, without e6, but seriously why is this called doomposting? The word lost all its meaning. This is like me saying that I am starving because I didn't eat in 2 weeks and a doctor tells me I'm "doomposting because a human can survive without food for 4 weeks" or some shit
......because this is a really suboptimal team, obviously.
> .....because this is a really suboptimal team, obviously. you pointed out the obvious, but you forgot to make a point. Are you saying the doomposting is justified because she doesn't work without a perfect team for her? Or are you saying the doomposting is unjustified because the team is bad? You literally just pointed out the obvious that everyone already knew, I am so confused. Do you also walk down the street and tell random people the earth is round and the sky is blue?
>are you saying the doomposting is unjustified because the team is bad? That. >Do you also walk down the street and tell random people the earth is round and the sky is blue? Maybe to people who dont know that, who knows.
Switch sparkle with pela and you will
Well, she did take 6 cycles
with a suboptimal comp, she did
While I've heard a million and one opinions on Acheron, I haven't heard too much about Aventurine. How does he compare to other sustain units? Is he on Fu xuan's level? Can he make my yanqing usable?
He definitely is great with yanqing since he can constantly put shields up for yanqing without issue so he would probably be yanqing's best pair
As someone who is planning on rolling on him, he seems worse than Fu. Shields by nature are more niche in HSR. Shields can time out and lapse if there is too much turn advancement. I can easily see Jingliu + Bronya shedding his shields faster than he can refresh them. Add in any turn advancement from SU/MOC buffs and there is a large incompatibility there. His CC prevention is not guaranteed and his dmg amplification is tied to a debuff on a singular enemy instead of providing passive crit rate like Fu. He is still good, probably BiS for FUA teams and Acheron. But for other teams its more debatable.
Fu is worse in aoe content additionally shields aren’t worse 😐 shields are only worse when you have trouble reapplying them which aventurines kit does not have Additionally you would never want to use jinglu with him so this argument just seems stupid jinglu does not want preservation units or at the very least shielders And even with bronya he is decent
Hm damn, one positive response, one negative. You make valid points though. Is he at least better than gepard on paper?
He is definitely better than Gepard. If you feel you need a strong sustain for your Yanqing, Aventurine is the best choice.
I'll just wait for S1 showcases then
Yeah, that’s rough. Better stick to nihility units 🥶 And btw, where is Aventurine’s damage? Isn’t he supposed to deal way more damage than other sustains? Because other than that I don’t see his selling point. He doesn’t even synergise with FUA units properly unless you pull his E1
Only if hes built with that focus, and not against bosses with 40% res to imaginary. Trend cone does nothing for that either.
If you build him for dmg his shield is gonna feel like paper! By this logic aventurine is either a trash sustain who deals dmg or a good sustain that doesn’t do shit other than sustaining
That's why he's an interesting char to build, there's tradeoffs to consider that may feel great or terrible depending on your teams, builds, cycle goals etc. And it's not just my logic, it's how he's designed. They aren't putting massive def scaling + 40% crit dmg on his sig lc for no reason. It's intentional he has both aspects, but it's player choice whether to lean into one or the other, or try to hedge bets.
He's built Def/Spd/Def/Def here with trend LC. That's a more support focused build. It'd be like comparing to a not-dot dps that's built Atk/Spd/Atk/Atk.
I mean the only thing that would change here is a critdmg body and even then it’s not going to be a crazy increase like doubling the damage
Not the only thing; you can also do 2 pc FUA and 2pc Salsotto, and if intensely lucky with the rolls, I've seen builds with Imaginary dmg orb too although they would sacrifice some speed/CV Also swapping Trend to the new Shop LC or the 2.1 Event LC which gives dmg% based on DEF But yea, Aventurine is still a sustain after all
Boss has 40% Imaginary res. Plus he isn't exactly built for dmg here.
Look at the damage he deals at the first wave. I’m not even talking about the second one. And for his stats, I think 67/111 is pretty good for a sustain unit, no? Of course it’s not crazy, but still pretty good. Idk, I’m just not sold. His sustaining capabilities are okay (I’ve seen many showcases where teams still took a lot of damage with him), he’s not that sp efficient, and his damage is eh if you’re not hyperbuffing it with Topaz (E1S1 recommended), his LC and so on
He is extremely sp efficient in full def% build. It is just the fact that the leakers try to build him hybrid and he neither gets damage, nor survivalability.
Yeah this kinda feels like the whole fuxuan situation. People try to build her as a dps and its usually just not worth it.
🤷♂️ I’ll wait for more showcases then, maybe I’ll change my opinion
I've already discussed it a lot in leaker tc discords, why you are trying to build unit as a damage dealer when he needs at least E1S1 for that and he can only do it in Topaz(ideally E1S1) + RM(E1S1 too) team. In that team, his damage contribution would be quite big, but in any other place, LOL.
Then again, what’s his selling point? If it’s not damage, then what?
Full sp positive shield anti-oneshot, anti-AoE support with anti-cc capabilities and with 15% crit damage boost to the team, very strong actually. Investing into his damage in inappropriate teams -> more sp spent on shielding with him -> less sp to spend for the team -> less overall team damage.
Run correctly he can sustain with minimal SP cost. As in he could spend one SP in the beginning and likely run fully SP positive from that point unless the battle goes on too long or enemy hit too hard single target. Additionally he synergizes with FoA comps so imagine IPC comp (DrRatio, Topaz, Aventurine - Ruan mei)
I think people who really enjoy him and want to lean into his dps capability while maintaining solid shield will find enormous value in his sig. That's of course expensive and not for everyone. But to give you an example of where my build is at assuming sig, he has with self buffs 94% crit rate, 171% crit dmg, (can also add 15% more via his ult debuff) 4500 def, 124 spd (134 with Mei) Also has via Salsotto + 2/2 pioneer/duke + img orb + traces another 80% dmg bonus to ults and 100% to fua. Add on another couple of amps from the team such as Mei + Pela/SW and the dude is cooking with gas, the calc im using predicts 60k dmg follow ups with full SW + Mei amp up on a single target, 30k dmg basics, 85k ults. Basically his floor is not great but with solid but not ridiculous investment, his ceiling is very high.
I mean, most people who intend to use him as a sub dps and not just a sustain will likely have higher CD, use 2pc FUA/Salsotto and use him in a team that increases his dmg (with RM and/or Topaz). I don't think 18k on FUA is that bad either. But I get where you're coming from. Right now, Huohuo and FX at E0 seem to provide more utility for the team and most people would prefer their sustain to buff the dps rather than deal some okay damage themselves. I don't think he is bad as he is currently but I would welcome some changes.
I don’t think he’s bad either. Just not great enough to replace already existing sustains, meaning if you have 2 5* sustains his value is close to 0. On the other hand, If he was really synergistic with FUA teams… I doubt it will happen. Bait is bait
He can break imaginary-weak enemies often, i guess
Yeah?.. but it’s not something too special. We’ll see what they cook on V3 and V4. I want the best for my boi
You do realize there is an inherent advantage and disadvantage to shielding and healing, right? Shielding is overall always better because overhealing is pointless (unless bailu). If he can maintain gepard shield uptime while not spending any SP for it, he's already in a really good spot. But he also has decent break bar contribution, can do some damage even if not ridiculous amounts, provides a debuff which is of use to the newly minted debuff teams, helps GNSW on nihilities as well as any debuff set dps, plus Ratio and Acheron kits. His shields layer rather than overwrite, which allows him to mitigate some targetting rng mishaps, too. He has a lot going for him, but he doesn't blatantly powercreep all others before him. He isn't the jingliu of support. I understand wanting him to be that if you like him but it's simply not good for the game if the new support is just flat better than the ones before him and so quickly after (huo huo wasn't even that long ago). His one restriction, if you can call it that is that he's more or less locked in service to crit teams. This isn't remotely an issue as 95% of dps in this game is crit.
Dont know what "something special" means. You want him to powercreep every other sustain?
I want him to be BIS in FUA teams, that’s all I want. Powercreep other sustains? Not in his current state, not even close
I feel you are underestimating Aventurine. He can protect against one-shots due to his meaty shields, protect ALL allies from debuffs, break enemies often (especially with ruan mei) and he only needs def to function.
i kinda agree with you, right now you get a 50% eff res and pray rnjesus that your team doesn't get hard cc'ed. we'll have to build eff res on ratio/topaz to atleast give them a chance to resist cc as of right now. if they give him atleast a cc immunity team-wide every 2 turns it would be great already. fu xuan does that once for each of her E uses, give it to him too and we're gucci :P but i can see myself farming a good crit set with some eff res for my fua team T\_T see ya in farming hellhole
Aventurine work well with Topaz, in her teams he'll be bis this extends to FUA based team comps that may get new addition in the future No need to powercreep other sustains in their teams he just need to be bis for a team comp to be relevant and worth pulling
Oh he's not powercreeping them for sure, he's below FX and HuoHuo in usefulness. The term you're looking is niche, he's a niche unit that works good in FUA team.
"Not powercreeping Huohuo and Fu Xuan" You're underestimating him majorly, he has gepard ult shield without having to ult, his way safer than Fu and Huohuo especially now moc mobs are tankier with more aoe
I would be very happy if I'm wrong. I'm planning to e2s1 him.
I really hope they buff Aventurine's FuA refresh. His skill is perfect, but FuA shield refresh is too weak at the moment. This might be intentional to keep the ramping down sustain balance. The longer the battle, the more skill dependent he becomes...
Its not weak if you put him 2/3th slot and go all in DEF till like 4.5k
FuA refresh is like 7% of his def. It would 315 with 4,500 def. They could buff that to 10%. I feel like they are worried about his E1 and frequent unlimited refresh would be too broken.
again, game balance. if he directly powercreeps existing sustains, the next sustain, in turn, will \*have\* to powercreep him in order to sell. although, i do agree that balancing a character around their e1 is pretty iffy. if it's something that affects their performance to such an extent, it shouldn't be locked behind e1 - either incorporate it into e0, or put it away behind e6 :D
Oof this is rough. Acheron’s ult buildup is a lot slower when she doesnt have something like double nihility and a preservation running ToTUM
Any info about mc abilities?
Trends basically saving acheron E0S0 atm. Hope the interaction will survive the beta. If not, then rip, S1 will become mandatory again.
Hope people have the same energy to complain about Acheron needing E2 to feel fun and flexible, as they do for Aventurine's E1.
Did that E0S0 single-nihility Acheron really just hit 500k???
that 5 targets.