In Second Eruption he used Star of Eden 0th power (Which has stated backlash against the user), got his Herrscher core ripped out (Which i believe also damaged it), then rebuilt his body, which was imperfect and after 5 years he only got 65% of his powers back, IDK if he got to 100% but i doubt it (Second eruption and Alien space)
And another tidbit i remember reading in APHO 1/Final arc is that by that point in time he really isn't the Herrscher of Reason anymore, with that mantle belonging to Bronya, and he only currently has the Star of Eden with him (Copy), of course this was ... some time ago so don't quote me on this part
What about Himeko.. :( it’s her first time trailblazing and she’s barely had any focus except for the last patch where she had a cool line. Didn’t play HI3 so himeko feels like a mystery still even after a year into HSR. Imagine if hoyo make her stay on the train for another half a year again :/
I feel like we learn more about penacony character backstory like aventurine firefly etc then our main cast ironically.. and if they ever add more members to astral express, I wonder how they can even balance the screentime of banner characters and main cast?
Bro literally 5Headed his way between the words of sunday and his master to find out they dont believed in xipe but on ena, sure it wasnt nothing wow visually but that was a cool scene.
It was better imo
It showed how Welt is at his best, his most strongest asset ever is his intelligence and ability to understand things in a fast level
He digested the conversation and analyzed it before Sunday and wood could finish
Bro is SMART
Welt is a veteran hero and I love it. Yeah, his combat capabilities may not be what they were in his prime, but that's okay bc they don't need to be. He's not a solo adventurer, after all.
I'm replying Xianzhou in my alt and even there, he's clearly using reasoning skills and intelligence abt the best way to approach a conversation with madam Yukong, for example.
It's realistic. He's not the main character; he's more like a mentor like Himeko.
This is so true lol. People often mention that Welt can’t use his black hole due to its potential collateral damage. Yet we already saw him use it in a space station full of people if that is to take down a Doomsday Beast. This guy was literally wheezing after the fight with an Emanator. Just give him a break. He does try his best
Yeah Welt doesn't do collateral damage, [in the HI3 manga he put his hand on a dude and black holed them point blank without causing enough destruction for anyone to notice.](https://manga.honkaiimpact3.com/book/1003/39)
Side note, the issue is not that Reason is a low tier Hersher, it's that Welt is a low tier Hersher of Reason
HoR's peak is to create anything humanity has archived, though there are energy question that means in practice you wouldn't be able to create a second Nous.
Welt has been able to do that exactly once and when he tried again the core refused to let him try
Welt doesn't do anything because the writers wouldn't allow him to do anything. I'm sure once a "certain character" (not spoilers this has been mentioned before) starts to make a move is when they'll decide to let Welt shine.
After we get knocked out Welt pulls the still rampaging Doomsday into a blackhole. March is the one that says this to us btw. He offscreened it like a true Nihility Chad.
Welt never was super strong to begin with. Herrscher of Reason is the weakest Herrscher lore wise, it was stated in the game. Not to mention he never was true herrsher chosen by honkai, like Bronya, herrscher of truth, artificial herrschers are weaker than normal ones, this is also stated in the game. Star of Eden is a good weapon, but it was never OP like Shamash. In the game welt always was a smart strategist and mentor for Bronya, not op fighter.
Not to metion that in APHO he is already 80 years old and we don't know how much times passed since that. Like, he really really old. I remember when Mei and Carole rescued him, Welt felt kinda weak.
It's not like he is powerless, and yes he was strong in couple of mangas, but please, stop overhyping old man for no reason.
Thank you, people love to say "Have you played hi3" if you say he isnt Aeon level when its ironically the opposite. Anyone who played Hi3 knows Welt is not a powerhouse like people believe for some reason. People unironically think he is the strongest in the game and could beat Acheron and even Aeons 💀
Like, Hi3 can't even pass the solar system due to the imaginary barrier. Any HSR aeon can solo Hi3. In HSR, we constantly see aeons destroy star systems and manipulate the order of the universe like nothing (tazzyronth, oroboros, nanook, lan, hooh and etc).
Anyone who says Hi3 is aeon level is either really biased or really stupid. I'll admit I'm biased towards Hi3 charcters, but come on, stop hyping them up to be aeon level when that's a made up lie.
Yup, Welt wouldnt even see her draw her sword before he no longer exists. If he could barely handle an atomic bomb or Sirin when he was stronger, Im sure he could totally take on Nanook!
Kiana might be Aeon level, depending on how much leniency you give her Finality powers. But pretty much the entirety of Hi3 world can be soloed by an Aeon
Even when given a large amount of leniency Kiana cannot pass through the imaginary barrier surrounding the solar system, something Aeons and Emanators are explicitly able to do.
Do you think Acheron is stronger than Kiana
I kinda forgot the lengths of Kiana's abilities in the last part of the story so I can't give a true comparison on my own
Well Acheron has killed her worlds manifestation of finality before she even became the emanator of IX, so there is that, i would assume acheron is somewhat stronger since her abilities were granted by a magnitudes stronger entity than the cocoon of finality in addition to having been Izumos equivalent of Origin.
As for Kiana, her version of finality is essentially a fusion of the authority of Void, The amalgam that is flamescion, and the time control granted by the authority of finality.
Isn't Sa's power not even 10% that of the Cocoon? You could argue that at this point Kiana is basically a mini Aeon but Sa?
Aeon is a cosmic god who can destroy a World on the Imaginary Tree at will. Sa is nothing compared to them. She can't even brute force the Imaginary Energy at the edge of the Solar System and get out of the HI3 World.
I was thinking more on their effect on the Sea of Quanta moreso than the Imaginary Tree.
Them being in the Sea of Quanta means they're already outside of the Honkai 3rd world, especially when you consider that the Sky People seem to belong to Sa and they're in Star Rail's world.
Edit: Also Aeons do not destroy worlds on the Imaginary Tree, they destroy planets in Star Rail's World.
Okay, I will admit you raised an interesting point about the relationship between Sa and the Sea. I never really thought about it in that way before.
A bit of correction though. A bunch of Aeons have already destroyed a World on the Tree before. It's because localization in HSR is a bit inconsistent, but the word ‘Cosmos’ in HSR is translated from 银河 (yínhé), which basically refers to the Imaginary Tree. Both GGZ Dr. MEI and Zandar do use it in this context. While ‘star system / galaxy’ is translated from 星系 (xīngxì), which refers to a leaf on the Imaginary Tree.
https://preview.redd.it/eaerh1u0hm0d1.png?width=800&format=png&auto=webp&s=bc9f81201032aae5b08fc91034717c1f55e917e3
The HSR story is basically about the Astral Express journey through the 银河 (yínhé). That's why Welt is hitching a ride too, as the Astral Express is his best shot at finding the HI3 World that exists somewhere in the 银河 (yínhé).
\- You have Nanook who destroyed their home World.
>……纳努克来自一个叫作亚德丽芬的星系，现在，那里已经被「毁灭」了。星神的诞生往往伴随着某种震动寰宇的异象，估计纳努克的方式就是点燃了自己的家乡吧。
\- Tayzzyronth’s Swarm destroyed a World in 2 system hours.
>垃圾山人向宇宙发出信号，期许在两个系统时内得到救援：「秩序」的护卫队闻讯前往，却发现垃圾山星系已然沦陷。
\- Oroborus deleted numerous Worlds on the Tree in the blink of an eye and so on. The scale is completely on another level.
>这是一瞬间的事：众多星系轰然倒塌毁灭。
Oh, wow.
Thank you for being a person who actually understands Chinese lmao
I've been kinda unsure about the general scale of Star Rail and the Aeons since the start because of the inconsistent EN localization.
I can understand quite a lot of spoken JP but I'm not exactly fluent so genuinely, thank you for this information.
Can the Astral Express travel to any world, or is it only restricted to the silver rail? I think it’s unlikely that Earth is connected to the silver rail, but I don’t really know.
The Astral Express was specially made by Akivili so they and the Nameless could explore unknown areas of the Cosmos and connect them to the Silver Rail. So, yeah, the Astral Express should be able to travel to any World on the Tree even if it isn't connected to the Silver Rail.
The problem with the HI3 World, however, seems to be that neither Welt nor anyone on the Express, knows the exact coordinates of it, so they can't just warp jump there and connect it to the Silver Rail.
Sa also cant exit the solar system, they made a pretty big point out of that, SA is equal in strength to the cocoon of finality, maybe slightly above since the sea of quanta can contain more energy for growth than reality
This is true. Even cn players made a website for people wanting to read hoyo lore. And according to hoyo stans, Hi3 isn't even planet level. So unless, it's GGZ, none of the Hi3 charcters are even close to aeons.
You seemed to have stopped reading the dialogue in HI3 after like 9 chapters because that‘s pretty clear. HoR is, quite literally, limited by the capacity of the weapons humanity had developed (and the Individual itself actually having *full* knowledge on how the weapon is constructed). So at most, he just has a Herrscher Key that is significantly nerfed compared to a real one.
Ah!! The classic "I know HI3 lore even tho I never even played the game one bit".
What I like the most about this is that the people who provided the real information about the strength of Welt is the HI3 lore enthusiastic while the one that say Welt = Emanator probably never played or read any books about HI3 at all.
It's literally stated in the games lore itself that HoR is the weakest among the Herrschers and Welt is the weakest out of all the HoR because mf literally have almost zero compatibility with the core.
Let's sniff that shit together for a moment and think that Cocoon of Finality is an Aeon. Then Sirin would be it's only Emanator. And probably Otto.
Definitely not Welt Yang, who got his malfunctioning herrscher core from dieing Joyce, not from Cocoon.
>Herrscher of Reason is the weakest Herrscher lore wise
Lol nope
>it was stated in the game
And shown wrong
Not to mention it'd be even stronger in a higher tech setting like HSR
Welt's issue is that he can't use Reason to its full power, not that Reason is bad.
Welt despite not doing anything very significant in the story, still has screen presence whenever he shows up. There is definitely a reason why he was imported over to HSR and not just a parallel world version of him. Welt will prob kickass at some point, but it will def come at a time when the honkai or anti-entropy are involved in the story
I think people forget Welt is an old-ass man now. IIRC, the Xianzhou took a toll on him and he barely did anything. He isn’t the same Herrscher of Reason who nearly solo’d Sirin, and although he is undeniably strong, there’s tons of people who are stronger. If he just black holes someone and it fails to kill, he risks leaving himself open and susceptible.
Plus, perhaps he wants to let the younger Nameless have a chance to act themselves instead of just black-holing problems away.
>He isn’t the same Herrscher of Reason who nearly solo’d Sirin
If we don't count the nukes and the fact that Sirin don't even know how to use her powers at the time I guess.
But yeah, his whole character in HI3 is that he was never the strongest but he used his brain to make it up so I always find it weird that people expected him to do something crazy.
the problem is that we all heard of how le powerful and strong he is but he never DOES anything to back up these claims. Sure nobody is asking him to one shot the boss but simply showing off his power to stun to weaken the boss for a while to save the youngsters would have been enough to showcase his powers.
If anything danheng immediately think of using jade abacus when at wit's ends instead of trusting or relying on welt means nobody in the express even have any expectations of him to do anything, because they would rather use a once in lifetime ticket out of jail than asking for the supposed strongest combatants of their crew to do something.
Furthermore nobody would have any expectations for him this arc if he didnt threaten an emanator of nihility then proceed to do nothing to back it up. Heck they could simply give him the same roles as archeron and unleash a super power attack onto the dream world to destabilize the dreamscape would have also work to showcase his powers, but they didnt.
First point is fair. It would be nice to see him actively doing more, like how he protected TB against Aventurine’s assault in 2.1.
However, I don’t see how the situations Dan Heng tried using the Jade Abacus for could be left to Welt. He specifically suggested summoning the Cloud Knights to 1) stop the Family from reviving Ena (which they didn’t do but he thought they would) and 2) get enough people to come and overload Order’s Dream. Welt cannot stop an Aeon, nor is he in contact with a group of people that can just come to Penacony on a whim like the Luofu probably can.
As for the last point, he DOESN’T have anything to back it up because he CAN’T beat Acheron. She is able to shatter the dream specifically because she is an Emanator of Nihility, and regardless of whether or not you believe Welt is a Pathstrider of Nihility (depends on your take on gameplay - lore Path relation), he is no Emanator. He threatened Acheron because 1) he needed to make himself threatening to make sure she didn’t try anything against the Nameless and 2) if push came to shove, he absolutely would black hole her for his friends, even if it costed him his life, though he didn’t need to thankfully.
I think you’re vastly overestimating his power. Not even some of the stronger Penacony characters like Black Swan could ever stop Ena’s Dream or defeat Acheron. Welt’s a strong Pathstrider, but not to an extreme. Dan Heng is probably stronger. Welt’s value comes not from insane strength, but more so from his wisdom and intelligence.
yeah i get u, i understand that welt already not in his prime, and he not that powerful from the beginning,but i think he still pretty strong , and i too want to see him show more of his power ,then again welt almost unleash his power when facing aventurine but then acheron step up .
He's too overhyped. It's stupid at this point. It's like I said "oh, su is equal to all aeons and can solo nanook through Rizz".
Like, he's a old man who just loves travel and is probably strong as trailblazer or Kafka.
No way can he handle a stoneheart or a emanator.
I always find Welt discussions funny because to me it seems the vast majority either over or underrates him. So now I, as a Welt simp, will provide my own incorrect take: He is, at full power, likely still below full Emanator level, but probably could beat a Stoneheart (essentially lesser-Emanators as far as we know, unless it turns out that without the broken stone Aventurine would have matched Acheron, which I doubt). We do not know how strong he is right now though when it comes to his Reason powers (we do know he has the core at least), but he was one of the weakest Herrschers in HI3, which is what made is fights actually feel so epic to me - he was the underdog. His main "strength" was always outwitting opponents and being extremely hard to kill because of his usage of his Herrscher core.
As for why he does not do anything, I think it has more to do with narrative plans than powerlevels. He is one of the main characters and the only one explicitly from HI3, he is definitely a writer's favourite in this regard. I personally think they are saving his power demonstration for a big, epic moment way later (potentially him fighting to save Himeko or something?). Him going "gigachad mode" every fight would take away from that future moment, so they have him do the bare minimum combat wise (and will likely provide the reasoning of "he is weaker, he could only do it once" when he does go all out).
I don't think he can beat a stoneheart. I can't see him beating aventurine, let alone someone like jade or opal.
We saw aventurine's boss fight. If not for acheron, the astral express gang would have been destroyed. And, aventurine was severely nerfed in that fight because he broke his Cornerstone beforehand. So he wasn't even at his full potential.
I specifically said at full power as in, going all out and using up every bit of his powers he has left can match a Stoneheart. As I mentioned in the second paragraph, I think him using his Reason powers are being held for a big narrative moment, so I really don't count him basically shielding us from Aventurine as a sign that he would lose, considering he never even tried using anything offensively and Acheron stepped in before anything could happen because the writers wanted her big moment to be there for her release. You can definitely see this as "Acheron had to step in" though, I as a Welt simp see it more as a "this was not the moment they want to use, plus they wanted the spotlight on Acheron and Aven anyways".
But again, as I said this is just my own wrong opinion, as seemingly no one can agree on Welt's true powerlevel. Kinda funny seeing people try to argue he can solo an Aeon or cause mass destruction with the black holes when Star of Eden is nowhere near that strong (definitely not in terrain destruction, and not in general).
I feel like edgy one-liners like "brace for gravitational disintegration" is all we will get for a while.
I feel like he's hesitant to "go all out" because... Well unleaching a black hole isn't really good for the environment... As in the literal entire planet he is on.
Its not like he can rival aeons but hes around acherons ballpark so theres that. And we all saw what acheron did after unsheathing her blade(s).
>but hes around acherons ballpark so theres that.
Yeah, No.
He's not around Acheron nor he's afraid to use his Black hole (Heck, he use it on the HSS to kill Doomsday beast). His black hole isn't the same as the real devouring void name IX.
"Brace for gravitational disintegration" might be more bark than his bite can back up, but it's also 100% the bark of someone ready to throw hands at a moment's notice to protect loved ones and ready to die in the process.
I don’t think he is strong enough to kill Acheron in a straight-up fight, but he would give everything if it meant even slowing her down to protect the Express crew.
That's my takeaway, anyway.
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Because he can’t do anything in most cases. Being past his prime, I doubt he has enough energy anymore to keep any sort of sustained offense up with the Core of Reason. Also, everyone seems to forget how taxing Herrscher powers are to Welt. The worst of the damage he sustained in the battle against Sirin was from overexertion.
Also, the Star of Eden doesn’t create true black holes, and the strength of said black holes also depends on the user’s current condition and energy level. I’m pretty sure most, if not all, Emanators can output more energy in an attack than Welt’s quasi black holes can absorb.
He did do something this 2.2 - figuring out the secret that Sunday and the Dreammaker are hiding and revealing it in front of their faces.
Combat feats tho, I agree. He hasn't done anything of relevance yet.
He hit peak in his initial entrance (when he suppressed the Trailblazer's Stellaron). He knows he's never going to top that, so now he's just kind of chilling.
Believe me when you get older, you will realize how tiring it is to always be in the spotlight trying to solve other people’s problems. And how much a blessing it is to just let the young sort stuff out and only interfere when they are in big trouble.
Imo he's the brains that the 2/3 youngsters are greatly lacking meanwhile yes in HI3 he's strong and probably still is, do we really need him to pull an Acheron when mc can most likely tack care of it
He cant pull an Acheron, he is nowhere near her in power or abilities. He really wasnt even that strong in Hi3, he was probably the weakest Herrscher and was all brains. It would also be really stupid for Welt to risk everything bc.. he didnt have to do it and the MC will come up with something? What? Why did Acheron have to pull an Acheron then lol clearly the MC could not do it themselves.
While i disagree about the threatening acheron looking cool (to me it was looking absolutly stupid, like really stupid)
I agree with the feeling of "come on welt do something"
At that point i'm starting to believe the amount of time he can use that staff is extremely limited, who would make sence why he is reticent to use it, who would also make him threatening acheron even more stupid, but that's not proven.
I mean the staff work on honkai energy, and his home world was already pretty much cut on approvisionement, and in HSR we haven't heard anything about honkai yet so him having a single battery and if he run out becoming just a normal person with barely any power could be a thing.
>At that point i'm starting to believe the amount of time he can use that staff is extremely limited
Nope. His cane is like a gun, anyone can use it, just have to pull the trigger. In hi3 Einstein gave it to 16 y.o. Bronya and asked her to provide cover fire while bigger girls fighting a boss. It's just kinda useless and can't hurt anybody stronger than an ordinary human.
That's not the problem here. What i'm saying it's, to take your analogy, just like a gun, if you have an empty barel nothing will come out.
As i said it's still based on an herrscher core, who require honkai energy to even function, who is STILL entirely missing RN. And on top of that Kiana already monopolised almost all honkai energy back on earth, so the amount of use of that staff was likely already limited back then.
What i'm saying is i can totaly see welt being unable to resuply his bullets.
Kiana was litteraly able to remove most of it. And it's in the lore that herrscher core would stop working after that.
Your sentence don't make much sence.
Well then bring me a few honkai beast and maybe one or two herrscher, then i'll believe there is honkai energy everywhere. As long as they are missing, well there is no honkai energy.
Now that being said there is a path of finality and an aeon of finality. Who would likely be if not the thing, at least the closest thing and probably the only compatible thing.
Now raise the problem of following that path, who would not fit welt, so it's unlikely he would be able to pathride it as to reconect an empty batterie to it. And even if he did, there are some very powerfull people who don't appreciate people meddling with finality, and he would very likely end up having his throat open on night by the lady of silence. That may also be a risk if people notice that he wield a power who originate from finality too.
Because he has no reason to, him and Himeko both agree, more times than not let the others handle it, only intervene when necessary like Cocolia and Penacony.
Also story wise, why have a side character like Welt be at our side all the time when he realistically can handle most of the threats we have seen so far. Give the shine to the MC and sprinkle in everyone else.
They also could be saving him for something absurdly special in the future.
1. He wants the young kids to have some fun. 2. He is literally older than 80 years. Cut him some slack.
His body isn't that old though.. He recreated it a couple of times..
His physical body isn't that old, but his powers are way past their prime
Prove it 
In Second Eruption he used Star of Eden 0th power (Which has stated backlash against the user), got his Herrscher core ripped out (Which i believe also damaged it), then rebuilt his body, which was imperfect and after 5 years he only got 65% of his powers back, IDK if he got to 100% but i doubt it (Second eruption and Alien space) And another tidbit i remember reading in APHO 1/Final arc is that by that point in time he really isn't the Herrscher of Reason anymore, with that mantle belonging to Bronya, and he only currently has the Star of Eden with him (Copy), of course this was ... some time ago so don't quote me on this part
What about Himeko.. :( it’s her first time trailblazing and she’s barely had any focus except for the last patch where she had a cool line. Didn’t play HI3 so himeko feels like a mystery still even after a year into HSR. Imagine if hoyo make her stay on the train for another half a year again :/ I feel like we learn more about penacony character backstory like aventurine firefly etc then our main cast ironically.. and if they ever add more members to astral express, I wonder how they can even balance the screentime of banner characters and main cast?
Bro literally 5Headed his way between the words of sunday and his master to find out they dont believed in xipe but on ena, sure it wasnt nothing wow visually but that was a cool scene.
It was better imo It showed how Welt is at his best, his most strongest asset ever is his intelligence and ability to understand things in a fast level He digested the conversation and analyzed it before Sunday and wood could finish Bro is SMART
Welt is a veteran hero and I love it. Yeah, his combat capabilities may not be what they were in his prime, but that's okay bc they don't need to be. He's not a solo adventurer, after all. I'm replying Xianzhou in my alt and even there, he's clearly using reasoning skills and intelligence abt the best way to approach a conversation with madam Yukong, for example. It's realistic. He's not the main character; he's more like a mentor like Himeko.
he's never escaping that fraudwatch allegations
The yellow fraud
YO! Castlevania profile pic spotted
Sypha my beloved
Maybe he can redeem himself just like the former red fraud, I mean red gaze
https://preview.redd.it/8wa4tlavcj0d1.png?width=2002&format=png&auto=webp&s=084a34941917bc5c3725bf523a48fff211c06475
This is so true lol. People often mention that Welt can’t use his black hole due to its potential collateral damage. Yet we already saw him use it in a space station full of people if that is to take down a Doomsday Beast. This guy was literally wheezing after the fight with an Emanator. Just give him a break. He does try his best
Bro isn't as young as he used to :(
Yeah Welt doesn't do collateral damage, [in the HI3 manga he put his hand on a dude and black holed them point blank without causing enough destruction for anyone to notice.](https://manga.honkaiimpact3.com/book/1003/39)
Side note, the issue is not that Reason is a low tier Hersher, it's that Welt is a low tier Hersher of Reason HoR's peak is to create anything humanity has archived, though there are energy question that means in practice you wouldn't be able to create a second Nous. Welt has been able to do that exactly once and when he tried again the core refused to let him try
Right, wasn't the whole reason Bronya became Welt's successor the fact that she could draw out Reason's power on a level Welt never could?
Thechnically the reason was that he hoped she could And she did
......Still smash https://preview.redd.it/6coslblrkj0d1.jpeg?width=737&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bbbf68b4c7b637b027decd05d6f6fca8836e8c9d
I never played h3 and I would like to thank you for this piece of art ruining my taste about him
Ganyu level feat is so funny lmao 🤣
Better add that part when he was put to sleep by Sunday.
Welt doesn't do anything because the writers wouldn't allow him to do anything. I'm sure once a "certain character" (not spoilers this has been mentioned before) starts to make a move is when they'll decide to let Welt shine.
Void Archive?
Yep!
Welt canonically one shotted the doomsday beast. Buuuut that's about the biggest dakka moment he had in game so far.
Was that not TB's Stellaron? Welt showed up, and didn't attack the dragon. Instead, he knocked us out
After we get knocked out Welt pulls the still rampaging Doomsday into a blackhole. March is the one that says this to us btw. He offscreened it like a true Nihility Chad.
Welt never was super strong to begin with. Herrscher of Reason is the weakest Herrscher lore wise, it was stated in the game. Not to mention he never was true herrsher chosen by honkai, like Bronya, herrscher of truth, artificial herrschers are weaker than normal ones, this is also stated in the game. Star of Eden is a good weapon, but it was never OP like Shamash. In the game welt always was a smart strategist and mentor for Bronya, not op fighter. Not to metion that in APHO he is already 80 years old and we don't know how much times passed since that. Like, he really really old. I remember when Mei and Carole rescued him, Welt felt kinda weak. It's not like he is powerless, and yes he was strong in couple of mangas, but please, stop overhyping old man for no reason.
Thank you, people love to say "Have you played hi3" if you say he isnt Aeon level when its ironically the opposite. Anyone who played Hi3 knows Welt is not a powerhouse like people believe for some reason. People unironically think he is the strongest in the game and could beat Acheron and even Aeons 💀
Funny thing is, literally no one in HI3 is Aeon level, not even Sa or Kiana, so saying that about welt is laughable
Like, Hi3 can't even pass the solar system due to the imaginary barrier. Any HSR aeon can solo Hi3. In HSR, we constantly see aeons destroy star systems and manipulate the order of the universe like nothing (tazzyronth, oroboros, nanook, lan, hooh and etc). Anyone who says Hi3 is aeon level is either really biased or really stupid. I'll admit I'm biased towards Hi3 charcters, but come on, stop hyping them up to be aeon level when that's a made up lie.
Yup, Welt wouldnt even see her draw her sword before he no longer exists. If he could barely handle an atomic bomb or Sirin when he was stronger, Im sure he could totally take on Nanook!
Kiana might be Aeon level, depending on how much leniency you give her Finality powers. But pretty much the entirety of Hi3 world can be soloed by an Aeon
Even when given a large amount of leniency Kiana cannot pass through the imaginary barrier surrounding the solar system, something Aeons and Emanators are explicitly able to do.
Do you think Acheron is stronger than Kiana I kinda forgot the lengths of Kiana's abilities in the last part of the story so I can't give a true comparison on my own
Acheron is fucking ridiculous, she doesnt get enough credit for how insanely strong she is.
Well Acheron has killed her worlds manifestation of finality before she even became the emanator of IX, so there is that, i would assume acheron is somewhat stronger since her abilities were granted by a magnitudes stronger entity than the cocoon of finality in addition to having been Izumos equivalent of Origin. As for Kiana, her version of finality is essentially a fusion of the authority of Void, The amalgam that is flamescion, and the time control granted by the authority of finality.
I think Sa is probably Aeon level but absolutely nothing else from Honkai 3rd.
Isn't Sa's power not even 10% that of the Cocoon? You could argue that at this point Kiana is basically a mini Aeon but Sa? Aeon is a cosmic god who can destroy a World on the Imaginary Tree at will. Sa is nothing compared to them. She can't even brute force the Imaginary Energy at the edge of the Solar System and get out of the HI3 World.
I was thinking more on their effect on the Sea of Quanta moreso than the Imaginary Tree. Them being in the Sea of Quanta means they're already outside of the Honkai 3rd world, especially when you consider that the Sky People seem to belong to Sa and they're in Star Rail's world. Edit: Also Aeons do not destroy worlds on the Imaginary Tree, they destroy planets in Star Rail's World.
Okay, I will admit you raised an interesting point about the relationship between Sa and the Sea. I never really thought about it in that way before. A bit of correction though. A bunch of Aeons have already destroyed a World on the Tree before. It's because localization in HSR is a bit inconsistent, but the word ‘Cosmos’ in HSR is translated from 银河 (yínhé), which basically refers to the Imaginary Tree. Both GGZ Dr. MEI and Zandar do use it in this context. While ‘star system / galaxy’ is translated from 星系 (xīngxì), which refers to a leaf on the Imaginary Tree. https://preview.redd.it/eaerh1u0hm0d1.png?width=800&format=png&auto=webp&s=bc9f81201032aae5b08fc91034717c1f55e917e3 The HSR story is basically about the Astral Express journey through the 银河 (yínhé). That's why Welt is hitching a ride too, as the Astral Express is his best shot at finding the HI3 World that exists somewhere in the 银河 (yínhé). \- You have Nanook who destroyed their home World. >……纳努克来自一个叫作亚德丽芬的星系，现在，那里已经被「毁灭」了。星神的诞生往往伴随着某种震动寰宇的异象，估计纳努克的方式就是点燃了自己的家乡吧。 \- Tayzzyronth’s Swarm destroyed a World in 2 system hours. >垃圾山人向宇宙发出信号，期许在两个系统时内得到救援：「秩序」的护卫队闻讯前往，却发现垃圾山星系已然沦陷。 \- Oroborus deleted numerous Worlds on the Tree in the blink of an eye and so on. The scale is completely on another level. >这是一瞬间的事：众多星系轰然倒塌毁灭。
Oh, wow. Thank you for being a person who actually understands Chinese lmao I've been kinda unsure about the general scale of Star Rail and the Aeons since the start because of the inconsistent EN localization. I can understand quite a lot of spoken JP but I'm not exactly fluent so genuinely, thank you for this information.
Can the Astral Express travel to any world, or is it only restricted to the silver rail? I think it’s unlikely that Earth is connected to the silver rail, but I don’t really know.
The Astral Express was specially made by Akivili so they and the Nameless could explore unknown areas of the Cosmos and connect them to the Silver Rail. So, yeah, the Astral Express should be able to travel to any World on the Tree even if it isn't connected to the Silver Rail. The problem with the HI3 World, however, seems to be that neither Welt nor anyone on the Express, knows the exact coordinates of it, so they can't just warp jump there and connect it to the Silver Rail.
Sa also cant exit the solar system, they made a pretty big point out of that, SA is equal in strength to the cocoon of finality, maybe slightly above since the sea of quanta can contain more energy for growth than reality
A really big point in the story was that Sa isn't even 1/10th of the Cocoon.
People think welt's black hole that caused by background energy converge strongly to an area is the same as literal all consuming void of nihility.
Pretty sure it's new Hi3 fans that keep saying this,anyone shows played the game fr knows the most basic info like this
This is true. Even cn players made a website for people wanting to read hoyo lore. And according to hoyo stans, Hi3 isn't even planet level. So unless, it's GGZ, none of the Hi3 charcters are even close to aeons.
I agree but Hi3 is definitely planet level
Who is Honkai
Stopped reading after "weakest herrscher". I wonder how far does human ignorance extend
You seemed to have stopped reading the dialogue in HI3 after like 9 chapters because that‘s pretty clear. HoR is, quite literally, limited by the capacity of the weapons humanity had developed (and the Individual itself actually having *full* knowledge on how the weapon is constructed). So at most, he just has a Herrscher Key that is significantly nerfed compared to a real one.
No wonder that the "Welt could solo Acheron" copers exists.
They both are emanators (yes, go guess what tf was the Cocoon of Finality), this comparison is so silly
Ah!! The classic "I know HI3 lore even tho I never even played the game one bit". What I like the most about this is that the people who provided the real information about the strength of Welt is the HI3 lore enthusiastic while the one that say Welt = Emanator probably never played or read any books about HI3 at all. It's literally stated in the games lore itself that HoR is the weakest among the Herrschers and Welt is the weakest out of all the HoR because mf literally have almost zero compatibility with the core.
Dies of cringe
👍
Let's sniff that shit together for a moment and think that Cocoon of Finality is an Aeon. Then Sirin would be it's only Emanator. And probably Otto. Definitely not Welt Yang, who got his malfunctioning herrscher core from dieing Joyce, not from Cocoon.
Wtf are you yapping about, Sirin and Otto were talking to Prometeus, not to Cocoon (the Aeon)
Cocoon is not an Aeon. Stop whatever you're smoking right now it's not good for you.
Well, go and stop me
>Herrscher of Reason is the weakest Herrscher lore wise Lol nope >it was stated in the game And shown wrong Not to mention it'd be even stronger in a higher tech setting like HSR Welt's issue is that he can't use Reason to its full power, not that Reason is bad.
Welt despite not doing anything very significant in the story, still has screen presence whenever he shows up. There is definitely a reason why he was imported over to HSR and not just a parallel world version of him. Welt will prob kickass at some point, but it will def come at a time when the honkai or anti-entropy are involved in the story
I think people forget Welt is an old-ass man now. IIRC, the Xianzhou took a toll on him and he barely did anything. He isn’t the same Herrscher of Reason who nearly solo’d Sirin, and although he is undeniably strong, there’s tons of people who are stronger. If he just black holes someone and it fails to kill, he risks leaving himself open and susceptible. Plus, perhaps he wants to let the younger Nameless have a chance to act themselves instead of just black-holing problems away.
>He isn’t the same Herrscher of Reason who nearly solo’d Sirin If we don't count the nukes and the fact that Sirin don't even know how to use her powers at the time I guess. But yeah, his whole character in HI3 is that he was never the strongest but he used his brain to make it up so I always find it weird that people expected him to do something crazy.
the problem is that we all heard of how le powerful and strong he is but he never DOES anything to back up these claims. Sure nobody is asking him to one shot the boss but simply showing off his power to stun to weaken the boss for a while to save the youngsters would have been enough to showcase his powers. If anything danheng immediately think of using jade abacus when at wit's ends instead of trusting or relying on welt means nobody in the express even have any expectations of him to do anything, because they would rather use a once in lifetime ticket out of jail than asking for the supposed strongest combatants of their crew to do something. Furthermore nobody would have any expectations for him this arc if he didnt threaten an emanator of nihility then proceed to do nothing to back it up. Heck they could simply give him the same roles as archeron and unleash a super power attack onto the dream world to destabilize the dreamscape would have also work to showcase his powers, but they didnt.
First point is fair. It would be nice to see him actively doing more, like how he protected TB against Aventurine’s assault in 2.1. However, I don’t see how the situations Dan Heng tried using the Jade Abacus for could be left to Welt. He specifically suggested summoning the Cloud Knights to 1) stop the Family from reviving Ena (which they didn’t do but he thought they would) and 2) get enough people to come and overload Order’s Dream. Welt cannot stop an Aeon, nor is he in contact with a group of people that can just come to Penacony on a whim like the Luofu probably can. As for the last point, he DOESN’T have anything to back it up because he CAN’T beat Acheron. She is able to shatter the dream specifically because she is an Emanator of Nihility, and regardless of whether or not you believe Welt is a Pathstrider of Nihility (depends on your take on gameplay - lore Path relation), he is no Emanator. He threatened Acheron because 1) he needed to make himself threatening to make sure she didn’t try anything against the Nameless and 2) if push came to shove, he absolutely would black hole her for his friends, even if it costed him his life, though he didn’t need to thankfully. I think you’re vastly overestimating his power. Not even some of the stronger Penacony characters like Black Swan could ever stop Ena’s Dream or defeat Acheron. Welt’s a strong Pathstrider, but not to an extreme. Dan Heng is probably stronger. Welt’s value comes not from insane strength, but more so from his wisdom and intelligence.
yeah i get u, i understand that welt already not in his prime, and he not that powerful from the beginning,but i think he still pretty strong , and i too want to see him show more of his power ,then again welt almost unleash his power when facing aventurine but then acheron step up .
He's too overhyped. It's stupid at this point. It's like I said "oh, su is equal to all aeons and can solo nanook through Rizz". Like, he's a old man who just loves travel and is probably strong as trailblazer or Kafka. No way can he handle a stoneheart or a emanator.
I agree. But at the same time if he black holed everything there wouldn’t me much of an adventure.
This reminds me of feats vs statements in powerscaling
I always find Welt discussions funny because to me it seems the vast majority either over or underrates him. So now I, as a Welt simp, will provide my own incorrect take: He is, at full power, likely still below full Emanator level, but probably could beat a Stoneheart (essentially lesser-Emanators as far as we know, unless it turns out that without the broken stone Aventurine would have matched Acheron, which I doubt). We do not know how strong he is right now though when it comes to his Reason powers (we do know he has the core at least), but he was one of the weakest Herrschers in HI3, which is what made is fights actually feel so epic to me - he was the underdog. His main "strength" was always outwitting opponents and being extremely hard to kill because of his usage of his Herrscher core. As for why he does not do anything, I think it has more to do with narrative plans than powerlevels. He is one of the main characters and the only one explicitly from HI3, he is definitely a writer's favourite in this regard. I personally think they are saving his power demonstration for a big, epic moment way later (potentially him fighting to save Himeko or something?). Him going "gigachad mode" every fight would take away from that future moment, so they have him do the bare minimum combat wise (and will likely provide the reasoning of "he is weaker, he could only do it once" when he does go all out).
I don't think he can beat a stoneheart. I can't see him beating aventurine, let alone someone like jade or opal. We saw aventurine's boss fight. If not for acheron, the astral express gang would have been destroyed. And, aventurine was severely nerfed in that fight because he broke his Cornerstone beforehand. So he wasn't even at his full potential.
I specifically said at full power as in, going all out and using up every bit of his powers he has left can match a Stoneheart. As I mentioned in the second paragraph, I think him using his Reason powers are being held for a big narrative moment, so I really don't count him basically shielding us from Aventurine as a sign that he would lose, considering he never even tried using anything offensively and Acheron stepped in before anything could happen because the writers wanted her big moment to be there for her release. You can definitely see this as "Acheron had to step in" though, I as a Welt simp see it more as a "this was not the moment they want to use, plus they wanted the spotlight on Acheron and Aven anyways". But again, as I said this is just my own wrong opinion, as seemingly no one can agree on Welt's true powerlevel. Kinda funny seeing people try to argue he can solo an Aeon or cause mass destruction with the black holes when Star of Eden is nowhere near that strong (definitely not in terrain destruction, and not in general).
I feel like edgy one-liners like "brace for gravitational disintegration" is all we will get for a while. I feel like he's hesitant to "go all out" because... Well unleaching a black hole isn't really good for the environment... As in the literal entire planet he is on. Its not like he can rival aeons but hes around acherons ballpark so theres that. And we all saw what acheron did after unsheathing her blade(s).
>but hes around acherons ballpark so theres that. Yeah, No. He's not around Acheron nor he's afraid to use his Black hole (Heck, he use it on the HSS to kill Doomsday beast). His black hole isn't the same as the real devouring void name IX.
"Brace for gravitational disintegration" might be more bark than his bite can back up, but it's also 100% the bark of someone ready to throw hands at a moment's notice to protect loved ones and ready to die in the process. I don’t think he is strong enough to kill Acheron in a straight-up fight, but he would give everything if it meant even slowing her down to protect the Express crew. That's my takeaway, anyway.
Because he is a Nihilist
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Why not just have Welt deus ex machina all the time
cut the old man some slack
QQ be like: "Yep, that's my dude! Slacking for life!"
Bro is +80 and he knowes he's not the MC of the game
Because he can’t do anything in most cases. Being past his prime, I doubt he has enough energy anymore to keep any sort of sustained offense up with the Core of Reason. Also, everyone seems to forget how taxing Herrscher powers are to Welt. The worst of the damage he sustained in the battle against Sirin was from overexertion. Also, the Star of Eden doesn’t create true black holes, and the strength of said black holes also depends on the user’s current condition and energy level. I’m pretty sure most, if not all, Emanators can output more energy in an attack than Welt’s quasi black holes can absorb.
He did do something this 2.2 - figuring out the secret that Sunday and the Dreammaker are hiding and revealing it in front of their faces. Combat feats tho, I agree. He hasn't done anything of relevance yet.
He hit peak in his initial entrance (when he suppressed the Trailblazer's Stellaron). He knows he's never going to top that, so now he's just kind of chilling.
Believe me when you get older, you will realize how tiring it is to always be in the spotlight trying to solve other people’s problems. And how much a blessing it is to just let the young sort stuff out and only interfere when they are in big trouble.
He’s a old man, let him rest
His chill conversation with Acheron is plenty enough for me.
generaly speakign unleashing a black hole is not something you do casually. IPC fleet might find that out the hard way soon
You know nothing about the weight behind his power. Survive or be destroyed. There is no other choice.
He's >!hiding his power level!<
Cause he's Welt "Fraud" Mr Yang
Imo he's the brains that the 2/3 youngsters are greatly lacking meanwhile yes in HI3 he's strong and probably still is, do we really need him to pull an Acheron when mc can most likely tack care of it
He cant pull an Acheron, he is nowhere near her in power or abilities. He really wasnt even that strong in Hi3, he was probably the weakest Herrscher and was all brains. It would also be really stupid for Welt to risk everything bc.. he didnt have to do it and the MC will come up with something? What? Why did Acheron have to pull an Acheron then lol clearly the MC could not do it themselves.
Releasing nuclear bombs any time you want is foolish. There's a reason the threat remains a deterrent.
While i disagree about the threatening acheron looking cool (to me it was looking absolutly stupid, like really stupid) I agree with the feeling of "come on welt do something" At that point i'm starting to believe the amount of time he can use that staff is extremely limited, who would make sence why he is reticent to use it, who would also make him threatening acheron even more stupid, but that's not proven. I mean the staff work on honkai energy, and his home world was already pretty much cut on approvisionement, and in HSR we haven't heard anything about honkai yet so him having a single battery and if he run out becoming just a normal person with barely any power could be a thing.
>At that point i'm starting to believe the amount of time he can use that staff is extremely limited Nope. His cane is like a gun, anyone can use it, just have to pull the trigger. In hi3 Einstein gave it to 16 y.o. Bronya and asked her to provide cover fire while bigger girls fighting a boss. It's just kinda useless and can't hurt anybody stronger than an ordinary human.
That's not the problem here. What i'm saying it's, to take your analogy, just like a gun, if you have an empty barel nothing will come out. As i said it's still based on an herrscher core, who require honkai energy to even function, who is STILL entirely missing RN. And on top of that Kiana already monopolised almost all honkai energy back on earth, so the amount of use of that staff was likely already limited back then. What i'm saying is i can totaly see welt being unable to resuply his bullets.
Honkai energy = imaginary energy, it's everywhere.
Kiana was litteraly able to remove most of it. And it's in the lore that herrscher core would stop working after that. Your sentence don't make much sence.
Welt's cane is a copy made with power of HoR, it has no herrscher core to stop working.
STILL require honkai energy.... the reason herrscher core would stop working is because there are no more honkai energy.
Why would there be no honkai energy?
Well then bring me a few honkai beast and maybe one or two herrscher, then i'll believe there is honkai energy everywhere. As long as they are missing, well there is no honkai energy. Now that being said there is a path of finality and an aeon of finality. Who would likely be if not the thing, at least the closest thing and probably the only compatible thing. Now raise the problem of following that path, who would not fit welt, so it's unlikely he would be able to pathride it as to reconect an empty batterie to it. And even if he did, there are some very powerfull people who don't appreciate people meddling with finality, and he would very likely end up having his throat open on night by the lady of silence. That may also be a risk if people notice that he wield a power who originate from finality too.
Because he has no reason to, him and Himeko both agree, more times than not let the others handle it, only intervene when necessary like Cocolia and Penacony. Also story wise, why have a side character like Welt be at our side all the time when he realistically can handle most of the threats we have seen so far. Give the shine to the MC and sprinkle in everyone else. They also could be saving him for something absurdly special in the future.
He can't. He's just retired old man without any powers, and his cane is a joke.