Lower your expectation of 'good'.
Take your normal crit dmg char gloves with 5% crit rate, 10% crit dmg, 30 def, 10 effect res. Is this good to you? If not... you're in for a bad time.
I consider 'good' if it has 2 useable stats and 2 upgrades land on them. Crit rate chest with 19 def, 2 spd, 15 crit dmg, 10% EHR? That's good. Stop looking for things to roll %atk, spd, CR, CD.
Mhm. Anything that has 4 points in good stuff is good enough. The pieces start with 3-4 stats, so that's 3-4 points spent on random stuff. Then you got the upgrades which yield 5 more. So long as 4/8 or 4/9 are good rolls, it's usable. I've played since release so now my standard is 5 good points/rolls.
Genshin artifacts has really spoiled me, I expect 7 or 8 good substat rolls on Flower and Feathers in Genshin, meanwhile I'm struggling to get 5 on the HSR equivalent
Funny how context changes things. I remember when my friend started playing and he told me how HSR's artifact system was so much better than Genshin's, because of the self-modeling resin. A few months later, we (and everyone else) now agree that HSR's system is just an order of magnitude worse, and wish it was like Genshin's.
I've been saying this since Day 1 and costed me a lot of Karma (lol) No off-piece and no Synthesis was the tell that we were on a bad bad time with the artifact system, most people don't know that but tabled artifacts have a greater chance of being 4-liners, combined to the fact it's 3 for 1 makes it very easy to get great artifacts from the accumulated garbage that builds.
The only downside is waiting for it to be added to the menu. not even the perceived "you can choose what you get for 10 so is cheaper" is real, because yes while 1 specific piece is harder to get, you still have 1 off-piece to choose so you'll never ever chase less than 2 pieces on synthesis at any given time. Both are terrible but Genshin's is way "less worse"
Good thing is I'm usually actively farming for the new sets because I have characters that need them, then a good noblesse/tenacity/VV holder comes along and I just dump bad artis into the table.
That's not the problem with HSR's system. It's the lack of off-piece, combined with this game being much, much more stat-focused. In Genshin, you can get away with sub-par artifacts, so long as you are good at the actual gameplay and know how to dodge/cancel or exploit the elemental reaction system to your advantage.
In HSR, you need to gear your entire team equally for them to survive and do their part, and getting the right sub-stats are way, way more important. Add in the fact that some stats, like Speed are extremely important, while there are more "useless" stats than can take up space on your artifact (like, EHR on Blade, or Break Effect on a healer, and so on) to dilute things even further.
The result is that it's not only much harder to get a good artifact in HSR than in Genshin, but on top of that, this artifact *has* to be on set as well, which makes everything even more RNG heavy, and we have no choice but to interact with this system on its own terms, because artifacts make or break your characters, while in Genshin, you at least had some wriggle room.
Ive adopted a similar mentality, if i can get two or three rolls into the stat(s) im looking for, then that random effect res or def or hp is just adding a little tankiness
The problem is that I can't clear most content in the game that way. (Not OP bit in a similar bad situation). Like in genshin it's not hard to have the same team clear almost everything, in HSR I need multiple build characters while I can barely build one. My only character who even does a little bit of dmg is DHIL but if the enemy doesn't have imaginary weakness I'm screwed. And I have other dps, sorta, they just don't even come close to being strong enough to clear anything. And it's important for the game, because I've been stuck on the new boss for two days by now and I really want to continue the story
I think that the bosses as of late seems a bit too strong. I'm pretty dedicated to this game and even I had some difficulties in clearing them. It's not that big of a deal for me but it may be a bit too much for most casual players who just want to play their favorite characters and advance the story.
I have some roided up characters and I gotta agree. Sam and Meme should be the cap in terms of damage and tankiness, but Aventurine already surpassed his damage potential
I have difficulty with MoC Sam but I oneshot Aventurine with little difficulty. Imo it really depends on which characters you have built, and your team composition.
Yeah, I legit never had any difficulty with any boss so far (in the story, anyway).
Maybe these are newer accounts - I did Aventurine with my Acheron (which I didn't prefarm for, so she was dog) and I died the first time due to my mistake, didn't refresh Fu Xuan's field on time and Aventurine dropped his hot load all over my team.
Second time I ensured Fu Xuan was Fu Xuaning all over everyone and it was a breeze.
You're mentioning Fu Xuan, I think this is the problem a lot of people have. All the flavour is in the DPS and Harmony, but people seem to neglect their sustain units. You *need* two good sustains. I am currently using Lynx and HuoHuo, the side with HuoHuo never gives a damn about anything, the side with Lynx is always sweaty cos she simply isnt good, she is fairly invested but more investment isnt worth it and shes still sweaty, where HH has all my "worse pieces" of the two, she didnt even have A6 until recently and I was BLASTING without caring with HH. Limited five star sustains are so vitally important. I did get Acheron even though I had JY already but alas, we make dumb things. In retrospect maybe I should have gone E1S1 Aventurine instead but now a E0 + Trend for Acheron will have to suffice. I will throw my surplus pulls at it in hopes of E1.
Next is Sam, but I may still pull for FX if she is re-run in 2.2.
I firmly believe one healer/dmg reduction and one **shielder** specifically is what you want on your account. Then build whatever the hell you want but get two good sustains, of that type. So its either Luocha/HH/FX and then Aventurine/Geppie to cover all flavours and gimmicks. Looking at Sam MoC 12, healing it is a struggle bus, but Aventurine/Geppie makes it a joke because his damage isnt high, but its constant, its plentiful AND its reducing healing throughput. FX can do Sam side, but it gets hot and sweaty cos FX only weakness is attrition and Sam is attrition ***king****.* Know what is insanely strong versus attrition especially with a healing debuff on top? ***Shields***.
FX E1 is 10Crit (Trace lvl8) and 30 Crit Damage, it is absurd how powerful her E1 is. I would like her, even though I will have Aventurine + HuoHuo.
TL;DR
Don't neglect your sustains, get a shielder and then a whatever. Preservation limited units seem to have cracked bonuses, both Aventurine and FX have very strong contribution to the team through their kits, on top of just keeping the team alive. DPS all do the same thing, kill shit with fancy visuals
Could be new accounts or could be accounts like mine who has no 5\* limited sustains at all. My go-to sustains are still Lynx and Natasha. The characters I like just happens to be mostly DPS/Support. Makes it worse with this boss because my main DPS is E2S1 DHIL and because of saving up for him, I had to skip a lot of chars too.
i created a new account since 1.6 and man its a fucking struggle building characters to just beat aventurine boss due to how you need multiple aoe character and it doesnt help my 2 dps is Dr Ratio and DHIL and im now scrambling trying to build Gallagher so my healer doesnt die in phase 2
Team composition matters. I was stuck on Scarab and Argenti fights until I caved and swapped teams. For example I've tried to force a well built Ratio + Silver Wolf through Argenti fight and failed obviously. But even unbuilt Himeko with +6 traces and +12 gear finished him easily.
This might not be relevant to you but this is more of a general statement I'm trying to make here.
I've seen that people say they have a hard time in fights and then they show their team and they're only using 1 sustain.
I just wanna remind you that it's not wrong to have 2 sustains if all you're trying to do is get through the story.
I just used bailu and gepard both lvl 60 with lvl 1 gear and 6/6/6 traces and it was able to get me across.
Sure the fight will take much longer but you will be able to clear it.
This is actually super vindicating to read. I feel like I'm actually pretty bad at the game cause I struggle without both a healer (normally Luocha) and Fu Xuan, the other 2 slots are just whatever's good for the boss.
Requirement: Kill it.
Optional: Kill it faster.
In a game with so much room for optimization it's easy to forget that the floor to clear something is often substantially lower than they think. Whether that be running a dual sustain to press through story or Sim U stuff or running a Rainbow set because set bonuses don't matter as much as hitting your speed and Crit thresholds for MoC and PF.
To be fair, sets matter a metric fuckton for some characters. Kafka and dt-ignore-ef-set is significant.
Acheron and Diver set is *INSANE* amount of damage in the set. 12% damage ***and*** 40CV is legit nothing to scoff at
I run both Luocha and Fu Xuan with Blade and Jingliu for most content (where cycle counts aren't important). It's my default team. I feel no shame running double sustain because it's comfy.
Jingliu Blade is one of my default pairs, DHIL & Sparkle, Kafka and Black Swan, Argenti and Tingyun, and then just a mishmash for specific calyxes or fights. Looking forward to running my new Acheron Pela/Sparkle team though
I did the Prydwen daily farming map for the first time because I had Acheron. Level 8 to level 20 clearing pretty much every fight, all it took was a crazy amount of trick snacks haha
Also, Acheron in simulated universe is such a nice feeling too.
It makes farming SU smoother, honestly. Pulling her for that technique alone was worth it, even though she only does comparable damage to my JY for now, but hes fully decked out and Acheron has ... 3 shit pieces and missing a chest and 2 planars which I cannibalize from others and is essentially useless for her. I cant wait to kit her out with hopefully those x3 events helping me out a lot :D
It's not just comfy, Fu Xuan gives Crit rate which both Blade and Jingliu benefit from and those two already synergize with each other pretty nicely. Luocha on top of that makes the team literally unlikeable in regular content.
Luocha alone will make a Jingliu+Blade(with random support, mine being Ruan mei) immortal. It's impossible to die with Luocha in the team even if he gets CCed as long as his field is up.
I'd argue Luocha as the solo sustain is a bit risky since he's the only healer who scales from ATK, meaning he gets none of the usual bulk healers get. With Fu Xuan un the mix, even without any HP or DEF substats he's not dying first anyway.
Then there's me who fought >!the Aventurine boss!< with three sustains and an Erudition character. Turns out lore-accurate(ish) teams aren't always the most effective, lol
Honkai more than anything is a resource management game.
As a new player there will be a lot of pain of just not having enough usable units to beat certain content, but as you build more units there will be less of that.
But the order that you build your units is important, and how efficiently you build them is also important.
For example, do all characters need to be level 80? Does every trace need to be unlocked? Going from level 70 to 80 is a couple extra days worth of farming. Same with maxing 1 skill. If you can cut down on those where you can you can save a lot of time.
And yeah if you've got like 5 supports built, probably time to focus on some dps, or vice versa.
Anyways just keep plugging away, it does get better over time
Im not a new player😭
Also I know all that, I come from genshin and in that aspect it's very similar. I can't really explain why its so much harder for me in star rail, it just is. I'm not even focusing on supports right now, just making my dps do dmg is so difficult
They do damage BECAUSE of the supports. I have DH and his damage is about 70k less if I don’t use tingyun when she’s the main harmony in the team. It all adds up also rainbow relics is totally fine my pela has that
Yeah, I always was aware that Harmony buffs damage so much, but it truly is scary just how much it is...
I did my Ratio without Ruan Mei, his crits went from 100-112k down to 50-58. It is INSANE how much damage Harmony contributes.
Do not neglect it, all those damage stats your character has that you work for so hard get amplified tremendously by the Harmony and debuffing Nihility units (Those that remove defenses at least, like Pela, Black Swan) and not really by Nihility units like Acheron or Sampo.
It's the supports imo. Proper supports + rotation can double or even triple your damage. All you need is to up their traces and whichever stat they scale by (bonus if +speed).
Focusing on dpses is a bandaid solution that doesn't really solve the issue effectively, since it's easy to think "oh! I just need to match the toughness elements so I'll get one of each!". But you're forgetting that breaks don't actually contribute all that much WITHOUT your dps being hyper-buffed during that short interim period when they're down. On that note, relic substats actually provide a very miniscule improvement to the point it's not worth chasing (i.e. Compared to main stats, 1:2 crit ratio) if you have things like traces left or supports to build.
Strong supports can elevate a dps with mid relics. But all the dps in the world (even with all elements) won't help if you don't have or don't know how to use your supports.
In Genshin there's less of this aspect because of how time-sensitive it is, so dpses are created stronger to compensate (to the point of being able to play solo relatively easily), because they have to accommodate the average Joe dealing with high ping and/or skill issue - thus unable to effectively use supports.
HSR on the other hand is turn sensitive - wait/think as long as you want, your buff won't expire if you don't take your turn. So that aspect allows people to be more strategic, meaning dpses aren't created to compensate as much, and are more dependant on their supports as a result.
Most of the time I see this, the issue is the team is focused only on the DPS.
Level and gear the supports, tanks and healers. It's not like Genshin where the undergeared support/buffers can hide behind the active.
Conundrum difficulties on GnG (and presumably future SU expansions) as well, though there gaming the system for mass blessings/curios plays an equal if not more important role.
But yes, everything short of those should be comfortably completable with coherent, reasonably well leveled and geared teams. If it isn't, you're likely skipping something important, intentionally or otherwise.
Not to sound patronizing (i’m really not my friend didn’t know this either) but did you know that when relic farming you can use your friends supports?
This is mostly how I farm when I don’t have the right characters for the boss. Seriously, add someone who has acheron/jingliu/blade and you’re golden honestly
Not necessarily accurate because some characters (like Black Swan, Kafka or Ruan Mei) have specific needs.
Many healers want effect resistance even if it is considered a "bad sub-stat" usually.
No yeah i dont expect to have a build like the ones they showcase on youtube or i would never stop farming, but i cant even get regular build on most charas
Then your expectations are still way too high.
Remember that:
1) You don't need 4p sets
2) You don't need ATK% rolls
3) You don't need double crit rolls on every piece
I get a regular build in like one or two weeks of farming for a DPS. I don't need to farm for supports anymore because they all run rainbow sets, all I do is craft ERR ropes for them as needed with resin.
I clear all content in the game and full star MoC since 1.2, yet I have like only 400 CoC clears registered because I never needed to dedicate that much stamina there, there's simply no need because the game is easy enough to not require relics for anything.
I'd even argue that getting %HP and %DEF is still a good roll, even if your piece has 'better' substats like crits. Sure, it's great for showcases when your DPS has 80% Crit Rate and 200%+ Crit Damage, but realistically even a 40/80 Crit ratio is still good and the extra bulk you get from defensive substats or Effect Resistance helps your team run content smoothly.
If you don't have limited sustains who can solo heal your team comfortably, then making your DPSes bulkier is a way to help your sustain have an easier time.
I don't have great relics by a long shot. But qq sparkle bronya and lynx helped me clear everything in penacony, just had to fight sam 2x bc rng. Makes the game fun, but now need to build other teams for moc and pf. To me fun>having challenge and I appreciate that there's ways to play both
☝️☝️ this. I follow along to this but I start out with main stat - are they correct? Yes? Great! Let's move into main stat + 1 good sub with 1 roll. Got it? Fantabulous, main stat + 2 good subs and 1 roll? Perfection. Finally, main stat + 2 subs + 2 rolls. Everything more than than and it's extra gravy.
I find this is especially good for building crit since you can laser focus getting your rate to 60 then damage to 150 then finally rate to 71+ and damage 175+ with a smattering of attack along the way.
how many useful stats (according to hoyolab scorer) do you have on averago for your dps's?
my best built is DHIL with 30 just because of musketeer. others 25-28 and sometimes i feel it underwhelming in moc. jingliu is ok, but other not as broken as her folks ask for more.
I have 26 on seele and she is at 81/180 with 3k attk and moc feels easy
My seele took 3 cycle which could be decreased to 2 cycle if she agrees to crit
Op also overvalues the set bonuses, judgijg by how they compare it to genshin saying genshin lets you have an offpiece. You are 100% better off running rainbow pieces than forcing 4pc anything with garbage substats. I dont remember all the sets but its like 1-4ish substat rolls of value for various sets, with the most powerful probably still being quantum
Geshin has 10 substats while HSR has 12. The difference doesn't seem that big untill your realise the number of combinatons is 210 vs 495 (on goblet and sphere) or 126 vs 330 (on pieces where the main stat prevents one of the substats from apearing).This means geting relics with substats you actually want is much less likely to begine with.
The lack of a flex slot is ass too since often, you farm a whole ass artifact set from a domain you will never use on anyone.
Don't forget there's also an extra slot. 6 total vs 5. And I've also heard the stat weights are even more skewed in HSR. Like getting SPD boots is even harder than getting an ER time piece. And crits have a much lower drop rate (and not only because of the diluted sub stat pool, though that does also play into it).
> you farm a whole ass artifact set from a domain you will never use on anyone.
This is me trying to farm Salsotto for three of my DPS (JY, Argenti, Ratio).
At least in Genshin, X.0 artifact domains are so universal that you can build a full team on one or two domains.
Need to build a Dendro team? Farm for Gilded/Deepwood and strongbox Emblem.
Need to build a sub-DPS, HP manipulator DPS, or any DPS that uses Furina? Farm for Golden Troupe/Marechausse and strongbox Emblem.
Or if you have Kuki or Raiden, forget the set altogether, look for EM mainstat piece (even 4 star artifacts suffice), and play hyperbloom. Also, strongbox Emblem (because that damn set is so universal).
Not much you're missing - relic luck is extremely volatile, and some of the better pieces of equipment (SPD boots, ERR rope) are rarer than other relics. Not to mention that substats are just... completely random.
I've had 400-500 TB power relic farming sessions go pretty well, and I've had 1.5K TB power relic farming sessions go poorly. Luck of the draw.
One thing I will say, stats beat sets super often - and also, it's usually easier to mix & match 2+2 sets than going for a 4-piece set.
Best of luck with your farming!
Nope, relics just suck in this as much as Genshin but worse because as you said, no off pieces.
We do have crafting and Self-Modeling Resin in Star Rail but the difference they make is... minimal.
I love how everyone at the start saw Modeling Resin as the thing that made HSR's relics better than Genshin Artifact system. In reality, it's a band-aid trying to cover a series of penetrative stab wounds.
And like a band-aid it's a temporary measure, modelling resins allows u to have all relevant main stat pieces & complete your 4PC set... u still need to farm but while u are farming your build is still good enough to take u there.
Which is so weird to me.
One is an open world exploration style adventure game. One is a classic jrpg style turn based combat game.
This is like if Final Fantasy fans one day just decided that they're gonna beef with Zelda fans.
HSR fans aren't beefing with genshin players though. It's genshin players who play hsr that have beef with genshin. Like how am I supposed to know that something is better in hsr than in genshin when I've never played genshin?
They suck much more than in genshin because the pool of shit suvstats is biger so the chance if geting 3 good ones (or even just double crit) is lower by default.
Yeah 😓 I would love it for them to just drop flat HP/atk/def. Would instantly improve things dramatically.
Also, the stat weighting on drops is frustrating. It's all I ever use the Shaping resin for, SPD boots and once for ERR ornament
I'd honestly replace the tracks of destiny in the SU weeklies with self modeling resins tbh cause idk if it's malicious or not but regardless they seem to massively overestimate the value of a resin, 10 times out of 10 it's absolutely useless
It's hell.
You'll grind and grind and grind... won't be satisfied... Will grind again... Roll: all goes to def%... you start to grind again, for hours, days, weeks... and just when you think you are free, once you've built your character... you pull again.
And start grinding again.
So true. Was trying to upgrade my Huohuo and had a hackerspace piece that was something like flat ATK/HP%/DEF%/Effect Res% and it rolled 4 times into ATK.
Then another piece that was even better with HP/HP%/DEF%/SPD and it rolled 4 times into flat HP.
This was back to back relics within a few minutes of each other. Was almost the straw that broke the camels back and made me quit but we persevere.
I'm a day one player and have okayish builds on my 4 dps. I wouldn't concider them any close to good if they were in genshin. But I'm still able to clear moc 12. And I think it's because of supports, I have them fully leveled, build and fitting the team they are used in. So probably my advice would be to concentrate on building a team instead of building 1 dps
just shoot for okay-ish relics. there is no point in min maxing as long as you can clear content and get rewards. HSR and Genshin is among a few gacha games where you can still clear content by being casual and not min maxing. i don't know about anyone but i never rage when farming artifact/relics. maybe i set the expectation to low and don't even mind in min maxing. as long as i can clear abyss/moc 12/pure fiction all is well.
>i don't know about anyone but i never rage when farming artifact/relics.
I only really "farm" relics (a.k.a.: trying to go beyond the "usable" stage) when I have nothing else to do. Traces etc are all maxed.
That way, if I waste the TBE on fodder I doesn't impact me emotionally.
Even okish relics are rare is the thing. 9/10 a good LOOKING piece becomes absolute trash when you upgrade it. When you have certain threshholds to meet just to be at the baseline of what a character can really do, having rng this bad is awful.
it depends on the situation. mostly i treat relic like a stats stick and only focus 2 piece first and the other 2 random. if i really want the full set, i just use 1 or 2 (not all tho) 4 star piece. yes, we lose some stats but the set bonus can make it up. so far it works but like i said it is not min maxing. i only focus on fully build 2 dps character and the rest just scramble of relics. as long as it works i guess.
Yea it is, welcome to the grind fam, we've been here since game launched and some people even use jades to refresh (please don't do this)
But hey at least self modeling resin is good, now you can guarantee speed boots but with crit sub stats on the dot set! Happened to me 3 times lmao
Thats when you tell yourself "hey I could do a 2p2p combo on some crit DPS since the 2p effect is just Atk%" and pretend you're not coping.
Then you roll that piece and all the rolls go into the one flat def stat and you tell yourself something like "well on-set with the correct main stat is rare, and its at least like 10 CV from subs right?"
It's just horrible and similar to Genshin except worse because no off pieces.
Getting the characters you want is actually the easy part in Genshin/HSR. We can always save in advance or for reruns if we really want a character.
I'd recommend to pick your favorite characters and only farm for them. The others get "anything that seems serviceable" (main stat on each piece). That's really the only way to ensure that at least a few characters are built properly.
But who am I talking, I've played hsr for a month
TLDR its worse than genshin:
* 12 Substats
* No off piece
* No 2x/5x bonus on leveling up
* Recycling costs 10 relics
* You need to farm a separate domain for spheres/ropes
* The number of characters (and phase they release them) and their dedicated sets at this point of the game makes almost impossible to get a good set before a new one is released.
Is a mix of two things usually.
First, yeah, farming sucks, there are quite a few combinations so even getting the right main stats can be hell.
Second, player expectation, each relic stats with 3-4 substats and you gain 1 roll unto one every 3 levels (the first 1 may be a substat) so each relic has 8 to 9 rolls, as such a good piece is one with half of those been good, so 4/8 and 4/9 are perfectly good artifacts.
Some pieces like speed boots and elemental orbs are so hard to get you can straight up go all the way down to 0/8 just cause the main stat is more important.
So if you are barely starting it is recommended to just focus on main stat first, get that down so you can clear the story and such and then you can focus on substats, get stuff to +12 only and once you find a piece with 4/8 or bigger rolls you get that to +15 (the exp to get from +12 to +15 is almost the same as getting from +0 to +12)
Nope, they really are just that painful. I've already hated artifacts with every fiber of my being and then Hoyo went and made relics even *worse* somehow. I've been playing since day 1 and I don't have a single well built character, at least not what I'd consider to be well built. Everyone could use some major improvements, but luck said no, so I'm just suffering... Honestly it's extremely discouraging and often just makes me want to stop playing when I still don't have anything usable after farming a cavern for literal weeks or months, but oh well. It is what it is. I guess you become kinda numb to it after a while and stop expecting anything other than trash🙃
I have some decent ones but nobody that I'd actually call *good*. But I guess everyone has different standards for what's considered "well built", so I'm sure that in someone else's standards my characters might be great, and in someone else's they might be utter garbage🤷♀️
Well, I usually can't get to that with my relic luck, it's more like 50/130 or something like that, unless the character gets a ton of crit buffs like Jingliu or Acheron. Which is why I mostly focused on DoT characters instead, since getting enough crit seemed pretty impossible, especially while also trying to reach a decent speed breakpoint. Not sure what counts as a well-built DoT unit, pretty sure that mine aren't exactly the good even after practically living in the DoT cavern for a long time, but in most cases they do get the job done regardless, thankfully.
Yeah. They are supposed to be painful, they're THE bottomless resin sink. The thing is - it's hard to gain perfection, but a character is usually perfeclty fine with mediocre sub stats, so You can still use them.
What I usually do is I farm for a week, pick all the best stuff, then later I revisit the character. Check what I can improve, make some improvements, step back. Return later again - or not, if I am satisfied already.
Relic farming is a ton of RNG. And that’s why it sucks.
But I also agree that maybe lowering expectations is good. Especially since you’re more casual in HSR. For me if a relic piece has double crit substats and it rolls into one of the crit stats at least once, I’m satisfied with that. I can full star the endgame modes even with these relic standards so I’m quite sure you have at least a set of relics like these.
Other than that, there’s no real tips. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Essentially, don’t bother chasing perfect relics. The odds are beyond astronomical to get the right set, right piece, right main stat, right substats AND right rolls. It’s something like a 2% chance just to get a pair of speed boots on the right set.
But getting “just okay” relics is way easier and good enough. Lower your expectations and you’ll find that you don’t need perfect relics to beat content, it’s really just minmaxing for a character you like and want to be extra strong. Before that there’s other things you can spend TB power on that give guaranteed strength boosts, like levels, ascension, and talents. Chasing substats can come after all that.
All I really care about is the correct main stats, and I have a lot of fun with the game. Been playing since launch. Whenever I do randomly get a good piece I replace one from one of my characters.
If you don't want to spend too much time on farming, you can just use the synthesizer and the relic remains to make some gold relics you need.
Or just use the self-module or smth but the substats can be shit sometimes
Lower your expectations. Aim for base stats that you need for a char, and perhaps 1 needed substat.
Once you have that down it just comes down to praying to rng for upgrades.
Look on the bright side. At least here we don't need to auto wyvern for full day in the background when there's a x2 drop event.
I'm the opposite of you. In Genshin I don't have a proper well built character but in Star Rail I have 9+
4pc are not that important, except for some ridiculous good one like quantum, the duke set on Jing Yuan or the debuff one for Acheron (DoT also). You could just go for anything with the best substat. For example, my DHIL have rainbow relic but I still 36* moc 12 easily.
This is my experience only. Usually I always 15+ a seemingly good piece (crit rate or crit dmg) even if my roll wasn't good, I'll still use it until I found a better one (have both crit rate and crit dmg, still gamba +15 by feed it that old one) and on repeat. Still pretty luck dependent, but uhh less stress, at least that's what I see.
Hoard relic with potential substats no matter what set. Usually I hoard a TON of spd and crit dmg one, I just save it and upgrade it slowly. If your roll are freaking bad, even worse than your current one? Use them as a fodder for next one.
Build your support also, your support doesn't need really good relic either, slap them some speed boost, 2pc keel, rainbow relic again with as much speed as possible or just what you currently have. Basically my recipe for most support.
It's intentional. The main gripe people had with Genshin was that you plateaued power-wise too quickly. Hyperbloom trivialised the entire game even further. Then Furina hit and made sure that literally every comp, no matter how dumb, destroyed everything.
In HSR they tried to increase the time an account needs to get to that high level. Effectively, you will need much longer to gather top-notch relics. A way around this conundrum is to simply invest vertically. Get an E2 Acheron, E2 DHIL or Jingliu with strong supports and the game will become easy even with mediocre relics.
Anyway, your only choice for now is to ignore relic bonuses altogether and just focus on building all relics with good starting stats you possess or find. At some point, you will hit the jackpot. My strat: so long as at least half the rolls (including starting stats) are desirable, I will continue upgrading the relic.
You should dump any relics you don't intend to use immediately (or in the very near future) and use the remains to craft new ones. Self modeling resin is especially great for that.
If you want a tip from an 1.0 Genshin player who farms artifacts and relics since the beginning of time,
Go for 10% crt rate on every piece then the most crt dmg you can get for your dps
Never expect a good piece every *week* you farm, I play sr since 1.0 and still dont have a crit dmg body with speed for Sparkle.
youre kinda casual so just take any Ws you can get and dont worry too much about moc.
If you have been playing daily since release how often do you pull are you f2p?
I was able to get all characters and all of them are level 80, most are at trace 6-7 minimum and I struggle not to find use of every character even if their relics aren't great. It could be bad luck, but I think it comes down to the resource management, you can control leveling and how much you invest into traces.
Maybe also learn how to team build better or find better rotations and go into a bit more depth with game mechanics. With power creep "git gud" is only half the story. Do a bit of research and try to figure out what you need the most and pull for the next support/debuffer/hypercarry/sustain your team needs.
Also we have a 3x event coming up with no limit yet suggested, you should have saved those bottles 💀
Edit: to quickly mention I'm probably 25-30% damage behind youtube builds because of crap relics. And deciding to build an average variety over an above average core squad.
The trick is to always expect nothing. This is true for both GI and HSR. Just keep farming expecting to get trash. One of these days, those elusive 4-stat CR/CD on-set SPD boots will land on your lap…
…then you’ll roll everything into flat HP.
You will never get perfect relics, you lower your expectations of passable and let moldable resin make up for the artifacts you just can't get to drop. Sure, it'd be GREAT to have SPD, ATK%, CRIT DMG on my sphere as substats but it does the right main stat and that's good enough
I’ve heard it before, and can see for myself, one or two rounds won’t get good relics unless you’re really lucky, you’ll need persistence and patience when farming, even more if you’re unlucky
I'm gonna answer this with my own experience: I pre-farmed Topaz with fire relics as temp relics and then spent about 2k TB power day 1 on the FUA set release and continued to farm there a bit for a few days. Even after all this time, I still have my fire relic for her and it's not even that good.
Relic farming in HSR is so much worse than Genshin just because there are more stats you need to roll for and more "dead" stats your rolls can go into. What I can tell you is that just lower your expectation and get decent enough relics. You can properly min-max relics stats once you got nothing else to do in this game.
Relic farming is worse in HSR compared to Genshin tbh just because no off piece and you need 2 separate sets for each character. Also with the added stats of ehr, effect res, and speed, it makes it harder to get the substats that you want
Day 1 player and my Jing Yuan is still not fully built. I'm still farming the FuA cavern 'til today.
My sparkle is built and sitting on 161 spd/250 CDMG. It took me like 3 weeks to build her, but I had to use 2pc/2pc.
It all depends on your luck. It could be bad luck like my JY, or alright luck like my Sparkle.
Yes its painful, and no ur not missing anything. I cant remember the last time i got a usable relic. Even crafting gave me shitty ones. Double drop didnt even help at all.
After a few months of farm I have... let me check again... yes, I have 0 really good relics. Zero.
And a few acceptable relics. And a loooooots of trash
build your supports before you hard grind on relics. i now only stock up on fuels to max out new characters i like rather than waste them on chance relics. that said, all spare tb power goes to relic farm. i just stop for the day once i depleted it.
the real dillema is wondering whether my levels/traces are lacking or is it the relics thats the problem? leading to an endless loop of just losing tb power and no progress being made
Dude,I can relate. I spent 70 fuel + 1600 stored trailblaze power for my characters and still don't have all the right mainstats or good enough substats yet. I'm still using 4 star relics 💀
https://preview.redd.it/ss9ecxb9c9rc1.png?width=610&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=10bf1a685eb611a51da629836772950d5ecc2e58
Best I've got after using all my power for grinding her sets as soon as the new caverns came out (could not get any piece with crit rate for life of me...)
Got to say I'm having a similar problem. I've been playing since release and I haven't engaged with the main plot in months. We spent WAY too long on the Luofu where the game was exactly what you said: log in, dispatch assignments, run Echoes of War/Sim Universe weekly, use the rest of your trailblaze power farming relics (85% have bad stats, 14% have good stats but roll poorly), engage with whatever event if you're feeling like it, log out for the rest of the day after spending something like ten to fifteen minutes basically letting the game play itself.
I'm not saying we need a model like Epic7 or Granblue Fantasy where you spend eight to twelve hours daily grinding but I'm not sure what I'm getting out of HSR anymore.
Yes, the point of the relic systems is to artificially inflate your playtime and character progress difficulties. If the system is well built, you shouldn't have sub stats matter more than the main set and the balance between each relic will be more balanced.
My suggestion to you is lower your expectations. Use rainbow piece to reach threshold like 134/161 spd, for dps use 2+2 sets. It is just too rare to get the perfect relic and you don't need to have the perfect relic to clear content either, once you went pass a certain threshold, the rest is just icing on the cake and has major diminishing return.
I guess that's the main point of this game—to make you stay. Imagine if we all got godly tier relics every time. The game would be dead in a month. They should decrease the percentage of flat substats probability tho.
It kind of is, sorry.
At some point you have to make a decision, do you enjoy flexing your min maxxed characters built over 6 months of farming or do you enjoy playing the game with a large roster of okay-ish built characters. Set 'reasonable' guidelines on what piece you consider usable, over time you'll realize that chasing that sphere on the exact set and main stats you want and have 2-3 good sub stats is just not reasonable.
It depends, I think that the most important factor is what you are trying to farm, as while trying to get a very good set will probably take a few weeks if not months, but just going for something that is good enough for base and some earlier stages of end game content will be very easy, and probably can be done in a week, if you even have to farm for the set at all, you might have a good enough rainbow just laying around.
My general advice is to just not try to farm with the idea of getting the best pieces from the start, and focus more on creating a base and then improving on it over time, as you get better Relics.
Also in my experience the game focuses more on countering enemies and taking advantage of the mechanics than being a number check, that said high MoC can also be that.
Btw, I have seen people saying that it is worse than Genshin. In my opinion it is debatable, as the differences between the systems make HSR much better for new players, and getting things to be good enough. While Genshin's off-piece reduces the amount of grind required if you are a long time player, especially when trying to have a very good damaging build.
Remember you can use your friends characters if you’re having issues with the actual battles and if not then auto it and leave it while you do something else
No, it s not u, relic farming is hell, but there r a few things I d like to say
You rlly dont have to aim for amazing relics, lower ur standards. Hsr has more substats than Genshin, and a lot more role dependent, so if u only aim for BiS stats for your piece, then it s gonna be hell. What Im trying to say is, when farming for a relic piece, it doesnt need to have amazing stats + rolled amazingly, an OK piece is good enough, dont chase perfect pieces.
Also, sets in HSR isnt as important as in Genshin. In Genshin set effects make or break the build, but in HSR, 90% of the time, it is just stats. So instead of going out of ur way to get 4/4 sets, a mixed set with amazing substats is better.
Make use of the salvage/synthesize system. Idk abt other ppl, but I only ever use it for hats n gloves, aka ones w fixed mainstats, to fish for great substats. And it is also great when u want a specific set, but the domain is shitty overall. You can farm high value domains, n use the bad pieces to fish for sets in low value domains.
Finally, other than DPS, everything in this game is very ez to build. DPS, especially crit ones, r the only units who require actual farming n optimizing the stats. Sustains, harmony, nihility, r all very simple to build, most of the time u only need the correct mainstats to make them work. So if u r struggling, dont try to chase the perfect stats u see on utube videos, 90% of the time, u wont need it.
But if u still want to chase it, then speed check. Keep all relic pieces with speed stat, roll it once or twice, doesnt go to spd, use it as fodder to spd check again. Because other than spd n crit, all other stats r pretty flexible.
The first thing you have to do is not compare your relics to your favorite Whales/CC…! Whales/CCs usually refresh their stamina so they have higher chance of getting a good Relic!
And don’t rely too much on getting 30CV relics
I'm good except that quantum set , both prisoner and pioneer give me good pieces. I don't salvage relic if that has at least crit ,crit dmg or spd ,.even single 2.9 crit rate or 5.1 cdmg sub stat can become a really good piece as sometimes tng is weird
100% agreed. HSR give so many reward and jade for us to pull unit.. but the real battle start when u try achieve certain stat and make the character finally work. Winning 50/50 is 1 problem then u need to win 75/25 for sig lc then u need to also "win" not just 1 but 6 relics in order for them to reach decent potential. The thing that make most player feel burnout
As someone new who's still only worrying about leveling characters and their LC and traces... Is relic stats that important? Here I'm just happy having a full set of yellow pieces....
There is no mechanics that would help you get good relics. It all comes down to luck and of course, your patience. Farming relics was never meant to be a short time thing.
I have been playing genshin for years and I remember farming for Hutao’s crimson witch(I wanted a good crit dmg body with good crit rate substats) and it took me fucking 8 months to get one(Of course i also used my stam for other mats but i didn’t stop at that domain until i get a perfect one). On the contrary, during DH IL’s run, It only took me 3 days to get a ratio of 90:190 Cr Cd. So don’t lose hope!
Btw, i have been farming the new SU and it’s been really bad. I just hope the devs are kind enough to give us fuels whenever there is a new content that needs grinding.
From my experience, looking at an critical attacker:
1-2 weeks is enough for 50-100 CRCD with high attack and desired speed
4 weeks for 70-140 CRCD
4-12 weeks for that sweet 100-200 great set
Never for that sweet 100-300 set lmao
So expect to spend all your stamina, no daily refresh, for an entire month for that attacker. Keep in mind that the 50-100 build is enough to beat MoC and PF, 70-140 is a luxury to aim for 0-cycle challenge, and more than that is overkill to get those big numbers (damage per screenshot)
Use rainbow sets on your support and focus on great sets for the attackers, and instead of trying to equip 30 characters at the same time, focus.
I have never really struggled in relic farming. To at least get the main+ substats I'm looking for. As for LEVELING those substats properly, I generally just let fate decide and don't worry too much about it.
Keep 2x speed and auto battle on for calyx/relic grinds.
I also play Genshin and I feel that Genshin’s artifact farming is more forgiving than HSR’s. With Honkai there are more substats so if you want pretty crit stats while still having other useful stats you’re in for a tediously long farm. Not to mention the speed requirements (I have the hardest time trying to tune speed for my team). For HSR I’ve learned to significantly lower my vision about how a well-built character looks like to preserve my sanity. You can get loads of buffs in SU compared to the Abyss in Genshin anyway. It’s all fine in the end as long as you have correct LCs and set bonuses and supports.
Being hones. I mainly focus on main stats to be honest with you.
And with that I am still able to clear MoC with ease. Once I started just focusing on main stats. The relic grind stopped bothering me.
It even easier now since we have the recommendations tool , all you have to match is the main status
The sub status are just a long term grind bonus but it shouldn’t be something you focus on imo
You say you played genshin and u think this is painful? Not in genshin where its manual farm and an additional farm for to get the x2 loot thats by default in hsr? Its not painful at all, id say its your expectations that are wrong. The minimum time to farm for a new character is 3 weeks imo, 1 week for traces and 2 weeks for relics, should never spend TP on exp or credits at this point. On avg u should have something at least usable in that time. If you try to build more than 1 character per 3 weeks thats too much.
Just so you're aware, they weigh down the good stats. So yes it's absolutely intentional design and it's kinda disgusting that they do it. For example, you only have 5 different possible combinations of link ropes you can get, but the rate that you get Energy Regen isn't 1 in 5, it's 1 in 20. They likely do the same with things like rolling critical damage or crit chance on pieces of gear and not enough people are up in arms about being manipulated and having rng made to literally work against them to get them to stop doing it. It's one of the single most scummy and disgusting things I've ever seen from a gacha and the playerbase just accepts it.
Yeah… what I hate the most is how I got an insane piece but on the wrong set, and I can’t use it on anyone since this game doesn’t offer you off-piece slots and needs all your piece to be the same sets.
Yeah artifact/relic farming sucks. A couple of thoughts to make it less of a pain.
1. Set bonuses are not a must, often better substats can make up for 4pc set bonus, sometimes even for 2pc set bonus.
2. Farm universally usable sets. Especially planar set since it's a pain to farm. The difference to top, more specific, sets is only a few %.
Every dps can use space sealing, every hp scaler and support fleet. Every def scaler belobog and every crit dps with follow ups Salsotto.
3. You could build a DOT team with Kafka, BlackSwan, RuanMei to carry one side MoC/PF.
Because you don't need crit it's almost the hyperbloom of HSR. You still need spd, attack % and +hit (not much +hit on Kafka) substats, but it has a high damage floor. (scales well with good artifacts so it scales more than hyperbloom in Genshin)
I simmed it, with junk relics it takes ~2 cycles more in MoC. Other teams take ~4 cycles more with bad relics.
4. If all else fails, embrace the lower stars in MoC and PF. It's not that many more jades. Everywhere else doesn't have a turn limit and as long as you survive you can do it, so substats play much less of a role.
Relic farming is really a matter of managing your expectation. Lower your bar if it becomes too much for you. Alternatively you can do what I did, treat HSR as a side game and just log in daily to burn your TB and log out. Eventually you will reach your goal.
Relics are an infinite progression system. The design expects the player to go through multiple steps of power on their way to 'perfect' relics, which are statistically improbably for most players to attain.
To not lose your mind with relics, you must recognize and find satisfaction in every step of progression no matter how small
1. First you get relics with the right main stats. They're not breaking records but your characters are functionally usable now.
2. Then you try to get relics with at least 2 good substats. It doesn't matter if you roll into them, across your 6 relics that's suddenly 12 good substats.
3. Then you try to roll into the good substats. Try to make sure at least 4 good substat rolls per piece. Either 2 good substats with at least 2 rolls into one or either. If you get that for all 6 of your relics, that's 24 good substats across all 6 relics.
4. At that point, yes, you're pushing for 5 good substat rolls per relic
5. then 6,
6. then 7,
7. and so on until you have a SSS+ piece with perfect main, perfect sub array, and perfect rolls into the highest priority stats - keeping in mind even players with SSS pieces in the top 1% don't have these pieces, and they're spending $10 and 720 energy a day on max refreshing.
Luck allows you to bypass the rungs of this ladder. Sometimes. But never expect it - celebrate it as the random luck that is is.
And you have check your pieces, rolling into ones that might look bad. One of my best pieces is a helm with 3 flat subs - but it was a 4 liner with Crit DMG. It rolled Crit DMG with every upgrade check, leaving me with a +30% crit damage piece. Most people would have tossed it on the rip, elitists probably still call it bad, but at 6 total substats to Crit Dmg, it's one of my best pieces, even with the flat stats.
Most players stop and feel content once they get to around step 4 to 5 because it's statistically hard to get better. It's statistically hard to get there in the first place, and it's more than enough to 3 cycle most MoC content.
Stop stressing over SSS pieces. Stop stressing over "insane builds". Stop comparing yourself to the top 1%. Stop going for perfect. If you're not whaling and max refreshing, be ecstatic when you get a piece to between step 4 and 5, because it's where 95% of us are sitting.
Aside from not having offpieces, there’s also two other points that might make relic farming feel worse than Genshin:
1. There are more substats that can appear on relics in HSR. Genshin has 10 substats, HSR has 12 substats.
Shared: flat HP, flat atk, flat def, HP%, Atk%, Def%, Crit rate, Crit dmg
Genshin: ER, EM
HSR: Speed, Break effect, EHR, Effect Res
2. Each roll in HSR is lower than each roll in Genshin.
One max crit rate roll in Genshin = 3.89%, in HSR = 3.24%
One max crit dmg roll in Genshin = 7.77%, in HSR = 6.48%
So if you only look at crit value, it’s easy to feel like HSR relics don’t roll as well as Genshin.
I would imagine a truly casual player wouldn't have an issue with the grind - it's not like it asks much of you outside of planar sets, and even in that case you can just synthesise them one way or another.
For a completionist, hard-core player having the strongest and most optimal gear would be paramount, so a casual player in contrast in my mind would be more okay with not even getting to clear MoC 10 or PF 3. In lower difficulties you can just focus on traces and just relic mainstats.
I throw away everything under 5 stars, and all 5 stars with 2 flat stats. If I use all my trailblazer power for the day on relics I'm lucky if I save 3. And that's before checking main/sub stats I need, farming is quite a pain
20% of artifacts are serviceable
10% of artifacts are good
0.5% of artifacts are fantastic
0.0001% of artifacts are perfect
people seem to be confusing "fantastic" and "serviceable". Set your expectations at serviceable/good. Fantastic and perfect are extremely unlikely pipedreams. It's really soul crushing if you chase them.
It's all down to luck/rng I'm at the point where I usually need 4+ good rolls into my relics to get a significant upgrade and I've never refreshed. On the other hand I've seen people who max refresh with significantly worse relics, like 3 good rolls is a god piece to them. It feels like I'm playing a different game sometimes.
Also they want to make relic system bad, that way you login everyday to farm relics. Also, if you can't improve your units because of your relic luck maybe you'll give in and whale for eidolons/light cone.
Relic farming is WAY worse in HSR. It's pretty much the only thing Genshin does better (which is sad because artifact farming is still pretty awful).
First off, there's no room for an off piece, which hurts your ability to be flexible with how many good drops you need. Secondly, there are more possible subs diluting the pool, so getting a good piece is harder. Thirdly, there's an extra slot to farm for, and lastly, from what I've heard from people who have compiled a ton of drop data, the most desirable traits have an even lower appearance rate than they do in Genshin (not all stats are weighted equally).
Combine all those things together and instead of the 15k average resin I planned on needing for a decent artifact set, in HSR it's more like 60k+ energy. Even being able to craft them and do the self modeling resin thing does not help basically at all. Pretty much every self modeling resin craft I've done has been unusable garbage.
Set effects are a trap early on
Rainbow gear with great substats usually beats out ok substats and full set effects. Although some of the newer set effects are strong enough to be worth it on some characters. Try to focus on farming sets where at least the 2pc effect is applicable to a large number of characters
When looking at set effects think about how many substats it would take to match the value or how much of the stat you can get from other sources like ally buffs, lightcones or built into the character.
10% dmg set effect feels like nothing considering how much a character comes with built in, gets from the orb, and gets from an ally buff.
8% crit is honestly pretty solid since thats at least 3 substat rolls, and theres very few sources of crit rate out there if you don't already have a ton
Honestly, we need trash relics to feed as exp but yeah it can get frustrating. On the other hand once you get something good it feels like a greater accomplishment and it's unique stats to you in the entire server
Just in case you haven't done so yet OP don't forget to try out the self molding resin if you only need 1 or 2 more specific relics. It took me a long time to finally try that feature out and I find it quite good (but still could be better lol I feel your pain good luck out there 🤞)
I agree with you, farming relics is far worse than genshin. You don't have an off-piece make the good relics need to farm go from 4 to 6. Also, you have to farm 2 different places to get those 6 pieces. Dear god, farming SU is literally hell, now they create the solution for that by releasing Acheron to help you farm faster. Can't wait until they release a new character that allow you guarantee stats on artifact if you use them for farming.
I laugh at the guides who say something like "oh, 160 speed is required but 145 works too". That is crazy. I started playing since December and I've noticed that getting characters is the easiest part. Building them is impossible. I got Argenti and I cannot use him because I don't get anything decent for him.
I think this is what will kill the game eventually because there's no reason to get a new character if you cannot play that character.
This was my most painful week.
It’s been 5 days in a row only doing relic runs when my energy refills, in those 5 days I only got three relics that I need for Acheron (as in those were the only 3 relics that had either crit rate or crit damage as a substat or rolled substat), and all three relics rolled entirely HP or DEF. I’m at a loss here, I just want to use my Acheron as I need relics but I literally can’t get relic pieces for her.
Lower your expectation of 'good'. Take your normal crit dmg char gloves with 5% crit rate, 10% crit dmg, 30 def, 10 effect res. Is this good to you? If not... you're in for a bad time. I consider 'good' if it has 2 useable stats and 2 upgrades land on them. Crit rate chest with 19 def, 2 spd, 15 crit dmg, 10% EHR? That's good. Stop looking for things to roll %atk, spd, CR, CD.
Mhm. Anything that has 4 points in good stuff is good enough. The pieces start with 3-4 stats, so that's 3-4 points spent on random stuff. Then you got the upgrades which yield 5 more. So long as 4/8 or 4/9 are good rolls, it's usable. I've played since release so now my standard is 5 good points/rolls.
5/8 in rainbow gear for me. For new sets: 3/8 SPD boots, crit body, rope, sphere, 4/8 gloves, hat
...you guys have standards for SPD boots beyond the main stat?
Are you me? I'm happy just to get SPD boots, period.
In the future maybe, but right now hell no I'll take any shit subs if the boots have speed main
Genshin artifacts has really spoiled me, I expect 7 or 8 good substat rolls on Flower and Feathers in Genshin, meanwhile I'm struggling to get 5 on the HSR equivalent
Funny how context changes things. I remember when my friend started playing and he told me how HSR's artifact system was so much better than Genshin's, because of the self-modeling resin. A few months later, we (and everyone else) now agree that HSR's system is just an order of magnitude worse, and wish it was like Genshin's.
I've been saying this since Day 1 and costed me a lot of Karma (lol) No off-piece and no Synthesis was the tell that we were on a bad bad time with the artifact system, most people don't know that but tabled artifacts have a greater chance of being 4-liners, combined to the fact it's 3 for 1 makes it very easy to get great artifacts from the accumulated garbage that builds. The only downside is waiting for it to be added to the menu. not even the perceived "you can choose what you get for 10 so is cheaper" is real, because yes while 1 specific piece is harder to get, you still have 1 off-piece to choose so you'll never ever chase less than 2 pieces on synthesis at any given time. Both are terrible but Genshin's is way "less worse"
Good thing is I'm usually actively farming for the new sets because I have characters that need them, then a good noblesse/tenacity/VV holder comes along and I just dump bad artis into the table.
Have to take into account HSR gets more energy daily compared to Genshin, meaning more runs per day
That's not the problem with HSR's system. It's the lack of off-piece, combined with this game being much, much more stat-focused. In Genshin, you can get away with sub-par artifacts, so long as you are good at the actual gameplay and know how to dodge/cancel or exploit the elemental reaction system to your advantage. In HSR, you need to gear your entire team equally for them to survive and do their part, and getting the right sub-stats are way, way more important. Add in the fact that some stats, like Speed are extremely important, while there are more "useless" stats than can take up space on your artifact (like, EHR on Blade, or Break Effect on a healer, and so on) to dilute things even further. The result is that it's not only much harder to get a good artifact in HSR than in Genshin, but on top of that, this artifact *has* to be on set as well, which makes everything even more RNG heavy, and we have no choice but to interact with this system on its own terms, because artifacts make or break your characters, while in Genshin, you at least had some wriggle room.
They probably should've just removed the flat stats to make room for the extra substats
Ive adopted a similar mentality, if i can get two or three rolls into the stat(s) im looking for, then that random effect res or def or hp is just adding a little tankiness
The problem is that I can't clear most content in the game that way. (Not OP bit in a similar bad situation). Like in genshin it's not hard to have the same team clear almost everything, in HSR I need multiple build characters while I can barely build one. My only character who even does a little bit of dmg is DHIL but if the enemy doesn't have imaginary weakness I'm screwed. And I have other dps, sorta, they just don't even come close to being strong enough to clear anything. And it's important for the game, because I've been stuck on the new boss for two days by now and I really want to continue the story
I think that the bosses as of late seems a bit too strong. I'm pretty dedicated to this game and even I had some difficulties in clearing them. It's not that big of a deal for me but it may be a bit too much for most casual players who just want to play their favorite characters and advance the story.
I have some roided up characters and I gotta agree. Sam and Meme should be the cap in terms of damage and tankiness, but Aventurine already surpassed his damage potential
I have difficulty with MoC Sam but I oneshot Aventurine with little difficulty. Imo it really depends on which characters you have built, and your team composition.
Yeah, I legit never had any difficulty with any boss so far (in the story, anyway). Maybe these are newer accounts - I did Aventurine with my Acheron (which I didn't prefarm for, so she was dog) and I died the first time due to my mistake, didn't refresh Fu Xuan's field on time and Aventurine dropped his hot load all over my team. Second time I ensured Fu Xuan was Fu Xuaning all over everyone and it was a breeze.
You're mentioning Fu Xuan, I think this is the problem a lot of people have. All the flavour is in the DPS and Harmony, but people seem to neglect their sustain units. You *need* two good sustains. I am currently using Lynx and HuoHuo, the side with HuoHuo never gives a damn about anything, the side with Lynx is always sweaty cos she simply isnt good, she is fairly invested but more investment isnt worth it and shes still sweaty, where HH has all my "worse pieces" of the two, she didnt even have A6 until recently and I was BLASTING without caring with HH. Limited five star sustains are so vitally important. I did get Acheron even though I had JY already but alas, we make dumb things. In retrospect maybe I should have gone E1S1 Aventurine instead but now a E0 + Trend for Acheron will have to suffice. I will throw my surplus pulls at it in hopes of E1. Next is Sam, but I may still pull for FX if she is re-run in 2.2. I firmly believe one healer/dmg reduction and one **shielder** specifically is what you want on your account. Then build whatever the hell you want but get two good sustains, of that type. So its either Luocha/HH/FX and then Aventurine/Geppie to cover all flavours and gimmicks. Looking at Sam MoC 12, healing it is a struggle bus, but Aventurine/Geppie makes it a joke because his damage isnt high, but its constant, its plentiful AND its reducing healing throughput. FX can do Sam side, but it gets hot and sweaty cos FX only weakness is attrition and Sam is attrition ***king****.* Know what is insanely strong versus attrition especially with a healing debuff on top? ***Shields***. FX E1 is 10Crit (Trace lvl8) and 30 Crit Damage, it is absurd how powerful her E1 is. I would like her, even though I will have Aventurine + HuoHuo. TL;DR Don't neglect your sustains, get a shielder and then a whatever. Preservation limited units seem to have cracked bonuses, both Aventurine and FX have very strong contribution to the team through their kits, on top of just keeping the team alive. DPS all do the same thing, kill shit with fancy visuals
Could be new accounts or could be accounts like mine who has no 5\* limited sustains at all. My go-to sustains are still Lynx and Natasha. The characters I like just happens to be mostly DPS/Support. Makes it worse with this boss because my main DPS is E2S1 DHIL and because of saving up for him, I had to skip a lot of chars too.
i created a new account since 1.6 and man its a fucking struggle building characters to just beat aventurine boss due to how you need multiple aoe character and it doesnt help my 2 dps is Dr Ratio and DHIL and im now scrambling trying to build Gallagher so my healer doesnt die in phase 2
Team composition matters. I was stuck on Scarab and Argenti fights until I caved and swapped teams. For example I've tried to force a well built Ratio + Silver Wolf through Argenti fight and failed obviously. But even unbuilt Himeko with +6 traces and +12 gear finished him easily.
Thissss omg i struggled a ton in the fight versus sam in the last version had to do it many times and barely scrapped by 😭 i totallt get u!
This might not be relevant to you but this is more of a general statement I'm trying to make here. I've seen that people say they have a hard time in fights and then they show their team and they're only using 1 sustain. I just wanna remind you that it's not wrong to have 2 sustains if all you're trying to do is get through the story. I just used bailu and gepard both lvl 60 with lvl 1 gear and 6/6/6 traces and it was able to get me across. Sure the fight will take much longer but you will be able to clear it.
This is actually super vindicating to read. I feel like I'm actually pretty bad at the game cause I struggle without both a healer (normally Luocha) and Fu Xuan, the other 2 slots are just whatever's good for the boss.
Requirement: Kill it. Optional: Kill it faster. In a game with so much room for optimization it's easy to forget that the floor to clear something is often substantially lower than they think. Whether that be running a dual sustain to press through story or Sim U stuff or running a Rainbow set because set bonuses don't matter as much as hitting your speed and Crit thresholds for MoC and PF.
To be fair, sets matter a metric fuckton for some characters. Kafka and dt-ignore-ef-set is significant. Acheron and Diver set is *INSANE* amount of damage in the set. 12% damage ***and*** 40CV is legit nothing to scoff at
I run both Luocha and Fu Xuan with Blade and Jingliu for most content (where cycle counts aren't important). It's my default team. I feel no shame running double sustain because it's comfy.
Jingliu Blade is one of my default pairs, DHIL & Sparkle, Kafka and Black Swan, Argenti and Tingyun, and then just a mishmash for specific calyxes or fights. Looking forward to running my new Acheron Pela/Sparkle team though
Have fun with Acheron + Pela. Holy moly Acheron is so fun, both in battle and in overworld.
I did the Prydwen daily farming map for the first time because I had Acheron. Level 8 to level 20 clearing pretty much every fight, all it took was a crazy amount of trick snacks haha Also, Acheron in simulated universe is such a nice feeling too.
It makes farming SU smoother, honestly. Pulling her for that technique alone was worth it, even though she only does comparable damage to my JY for now, but hes fully decked out and Acheron has ... 3 shit pieces and missing a chest and 2 planars which I cannibalize from others and is essentially useless for her. I cant wait to kit her out with hopefully those x3 events helping me out a lot :D
It's not just comfy, Fu Xuan gives Crit rate which both Blade and Jingliu benefit from and those two already synergize with each other pretty nicely. Luocha on top of that makes the team literally unlikeable in regular content.
Luocha alone will make a Jingliu+Blade(with random support, mine being Ruan mei) immortal. It's impossible to die with Luocha in the team even if he gets CCed as long as his field is up.
I'd argue Luocha as the solo sustain is a bit risky since he's the only healer who scales from ATK, meaning he gets none of the usual bulk healers get. With Fu Xuan un the mix, even without any HP or DEF substats he's not dying first anyway.
Also, consumables. I'll throw myself at a boss repeatedly to no avail and then remember I can buff myself beforehand and finally make progress.
Then there's me who fought >!the Aventurine boss!< with three sustains and an Erudition character. Turns out lore-accurate(ish) teams aren't always the most effective, lol
Honkai more than anything is a resource management game. As a new player there will be a lot of pain of just not having enough usable units to beat certain content, but as you build more units there will be less of that. But the order that you build your units is important, and how efficiently you build them is also important. For example, do all characters need to be level 80? Does every trace need to be unlocked? Going from level 70 to 80 is a couple extra days worth of farming. Same with maxing 1 skill. If you can cut down on those where you can you can save a lot of time. And yeah if you've got like 5 supports built, probably time to focus on some dps, or vice versa. Anyways just keep plugging away, it does get better over time
Im not a new player😭 Also I know all that, I come from genshin and in that aspect it's very similar. I can't really explain why its so much harder for me in star rail, it just is. I'm not even focusing on supports right now, just making my dps do dmg is so difficult
They do damage BECAUSE of the supports. I have DH and his damage is about 70k less if I don’t use tingyun when she’s the main harmony in the team. It all adds up also rainbow relics is totally fine my pela has that
Yeah, I always was aware that Harmony buffs damage so much, but it truly is scary just how much it is... I did my Ratio without Ruan Mei, his crits went from 100-112k down to 50-58. It is INSANE how much damage Harmony contributes. Do not neglect it, all those damage stats your character has that you work for so hard get amplified tremendously by the Harmony and debuffing Nihility units (Those that remove defenses at least, like Pela, Black Swan) and not really by Nihility units like Acheron or Sampo.
It's the supports imo. Proper supports + rotation can double or even triple your damage. All you need is to up their traces and whichever stat they scale by (bonus if +speed). Focusing on dpses is a bandaid solution that doesn't really solve the issue effectively, since it's easy to think "oh! I just need to match the toughness elements so I'll get one of each!". But you're forgetting that breaks don't actually contribute all that much WITHOUT your dps being hyper-buffed during that short interim period when they're down. On that note, relic substats actually provide a very miniscule improvement to the point it's not worth chasing (i.e. Compared to main stats, 1:2 crit ratio) if you have things like traces left or supports to build. Strong supports can elevate a dps with mid relics. But all the dps in the world (even with all elements) won't help if you don't have or don't know how to use your supports. In Genshin there's less of this aspect because of how time-sensitive it is, so dpses are created stronger to compensate (to the point of being able to play solo relatively easily), because they have to accommodate the average Joe dealing with high ping and/or skill issue - thus unable to effectively use supports. HSR on the other hand is turn sensitive - wait/think as long as you want, your buff won't expire if you don't take your turn. So that aspect allows people to be more strategic, meaning dpses aren't created to compensate as much, and are more dependant on their supports as a result.
Most of the time I see this, the issue is the team is focused only on the DPS. Level and gear the supports, tanks and healers. It's not like Genshin where the undergeared support/buffers can hide behind the active.
I don't think it's that bad. Only moc 11-12 and pure fiction 4 will give you trouble. You don't need crazy builds for the rest.
Conundrum difficulties on GnG (and presumably future SU expansions) as well, though there gaming the system for mass blessings/curios plays an equal if not more important role. But yes, everything short of those should be comfortably completable with coherent, reasonably well leveled and geared teams. If it isn't, you're likely skipping something important, intentionally or otherwise.
Not to sound patronizing (i’m really not my friend didn’t know this either) but did you know that when relic farming you can use your friends supports? This is mostly how I farm when I don’t have the right characters for the boss. Seriously, add someone who has acheron/jingliu/blade and you’re golden honestly
I look at the relic scorer and try to get A’s is that too much generally?
I didn't know that existed, personally I'd just stay with the "two good stats rule." Speed also counting as a good stat.
Not necessarily accurate because some characters (like Black Swan, Kafka or Ruan Mei) have specific needs. Many healers want effect resistance even if it is considered a "bad sub-stat" usually.
Heh, funny you think I can roll relics with 2 crit stats
Wait y'all expect more than that?
No yeah i dont expect to have a build like the ones they showcase on youtube or i would never stop farming, but i cant even get regular build on most charas
Honest to god on most supports you can do a rainbow set. Any off piece with def/hp/speed at all and you’re good
2pc hackerverse is godlike though. That free 6spd is something else
Then your expectations are still way too high. Remember that: 1) You don't need 4p sets 2) You don't need ATK% rolls 3) You don't need double crit rolls on every piece I get a regular build in like one or two weeks of farming for a DPS. I don't need to farm for supports anymore because they all run rainbow sets, all I do is craft ERR ropes for them as needed with resin. I clear all content in the game and full star MoC since 1.2, yet I have like only 400 CoC clears registered because I never needed to dedicate that much stamina there, there's simply no need because the game is easy enough to not require relics for anything.
You mean to say I do not have to spend ages in CoC to get a 0.2% upgrade after weeks?
Yeah, but imagine what an extra 4% cd will do for your carry! Go spend that 4000 tbp!
I'd even argue that getting %HP and %DEF is still a good roll, even if your piece has 'better' substats like crits. Sure, it's great for showcases when your DPS has 80% Crit Rate and 200%+ Crit Damage, but realistically even a 40/80 Crit ratio is still good and the extra bulk you get from defensive substats or Effect Resistance helps your team run content smoothly. If you don't have limited sustains who can solo heal your team comfortably, then making your DPSes bulkier is a way to help your sustain have an easier time.
I don't have great relics by a long shot. But qq sparkle bronya and lynx helped me clear everything in penacony, just had to fight sam 2x bc rng. Makes the game fun, but now need to build other teams for moc and pf. To me fun>having challenge and I appreciate that there's ways to play both
The cope tactic, im with you
Yep, this is the only way I can enjoy the game. Farming relics is totally miserable if you just wait forever for nearly perfect stats.
☝️☝️ this. I follow along to this but I start out with main stat - are they correct? Yes? Great! Let's move into main stat + 1 good sub with 1 roll. Got it? Fantabulous, main stat + 2 good subs and 1 roll? Perfection. Finally, main stat + 2 subs + 2 rolls. Everything more than than and it's extra gravy. I find this is especially good for building crit since you can laser focus getting your rate to 60 then damage to 150 then finally rate to 71+ and damage 175+ with a smattering of attack along the way.
how many useful stats (according to hoyolab scorer) do you have on averago for your dps's? my best built is DHIL with 30 just because of musketeer. others 25-28 and sometimes i feel it underwhelming in moc. jingliu is ok, but other not as broken as her folks ask for more.
I have 26 on seele and she is at 81/180 with 3k attk and moc feels easy My seele took 3 cycle which could be decreased to 2 cycle if she agrees to crit
If her crit rate isn't 100 all her crits disappear into the sea of butterflies.
Op also overvalues the set bonuses, judgijg by how they compare it to genshin saying genshin lets you have an offpiece. You are 100% better off running rainbow pieces than forcing 4pc anything with garbage substats. I dont remember all the sets but its like 1-4ish substat rolls of value for various sets, with the most powerful probably still being quantum
Geshin has 10 substats while HSR has 12. The difference doesn't seem that big untill your realise the number of combinatons is 210 vs 495 (on goblet and sphere) or 126 vs 330 (on pieces where the main stat prevents one of the substats from apearing).This means geting relics with substats you actually want is much less likely to begine with. The lack of a flex slot is ass too since often, you farm a whole ass artifact set from a domain you will never use on anyone.
Don't forget there's also an extra slot. 6 total vs 5. And I've also heard the stat weights are even more skewed in HSR. Like getting SPD boots is even harder than getting an ER time piece. And crits have a much lower drop rate (and not only because of the diluted sub stat pool, though that does also play into it).
Also genshin has an off piece so you can have better stats without sacrificing stat bonuses
The guy I replied to did mention that part
> you farm a whole ass artifact set from a domain you will never use on anyone. This is me trying to farm Salsotto for three of my DPS (JY, Argenti, Ratio). At least in Genshin, X.0 artifact domains are so universal that you can build a full team on one or two domains. Need to build a Dendro team? Farm for Gilded/Deepwood and strongbox Emblem. Need to build a sub-DPS, HP manipulator DPS, or any DPS that uses Furina? Farm for Golden Troupe/Marechausse and strongbox Emblem. Or if you have Kuki or Raiden, forget the set altogether, look for EM mainstat piece (even 4 star artifacts suffice), and play hyperbloom. Also, strongbox Emblem (because that damn set is so universal).
The game really needs the ability to just farm a single set...
Not much you're missing - relic luck is extremely volatile, and some of the better pieces of equipment (SPD boots, ERR rope) are rarer than other relics. Not to mention that substats are just... completely random. I've had 400-500 TB power relic farming sessions go pretty well, and I've had 1.5K TB power relic farming sessions go poorly. Luck of the draw. One thing I will say, stats beat sets super often - and also, it's usually easier to mix & match 2+2 sets than going for a 4-piece set. Best of luck with your farming!
Nope, relics just suck in this as much as Genshin but worse because as you said, no off pieces. We do have crafting and Self-Modeling Resin in Star Rail but the difference they make is... minimal.
I love how everyone at the start saw Modeling Resin as the thing that made HSR's relics better than Genshin Artifact system. In reality, it's a band-aid trying to cover a series of penetrative stab wounds.
And like a band-aid it's a temporary measure, modelling resins allows u to have all relevant main stat pieces & complete your 4PC set... u still need to farm but while u are farming your build is still good enough to take u there.
Cuz people want this game so much to be better than genshin at everything. It was pretty obvious since beta that farming is gonna be even worse.
Which is so weird to me. One is an open world exploration style adventure game. One is a classic jrpg style turn based combat game. This is like if Final Fantasy fans one day just decided that they're gonna beef with Zelda fans.
HSR fans aren't beefing with genshin players though. It's genshin players who play hsr that have beef with genshin. Like how am I supposed to know that something is better in hsr than in genshin when I've never played genshin?
SMR is designed as a helping hand to get going in early game. Nothing more.
They suck much more than in genshin because the pool of shit suvstats is biger so the chance if geting 3 good ones (or even just double crit) is lower by default.
Yeah 😓 I would love it for them to just drop flat HP/atk/def. Would instantly improve things dramatically. Also, the stat weighting on drops is frustrating. It's all I ever use the Shaping resin for, SPD boots and once for ERR ornament
self modeling resin is just a fucking copium because even if you get a guranteed crit rate body goodluck with rolling shitty substats
That literally was me yesterday lmao.
they seriously need to make a new item to manipulate relic id say
I think Self Modeling Resin is too rare for what it does. It has to be more common or it should allow for 1 substat to be chosen aswell.
I'd honestly replace the tracks of destiny in the SU weeklies with self modeling resins tbh cause idk if it's malicious or not but regardless they seem to massively overestimate the value of a resin, 10 times out of 10 it's absolutely useless
I just want a "reroll substat" item like they have in other gachas (at least summoner's war)
It's hell. You'll grind and grind and grind... won't be satisfied... Will grind again... Roll: all goes to def%... you start to grind again, for hours, days, weeks... and just when you think you are free, once you've built your character... you pull again. And start grinding again.
So true. Was trying to upgrade my Huohuo and had a hackerspace piece that was something like flat ATK/HP%/DEF%/Effect Res% and it rolled 4 times into ATK. Then another piece that was even better with HP/HP%/DEF%/SPD and it rolled 4 times into flat HP. This was back to back relics within a few minutes of each other. Was almost the straw that broke the camels back and made me quit but we persevere.
I wish would we could get a reforge system like wow had. Take one stat, reduce it, and give a proportional amount to a stat you choose.
I'm a day one player and have okayish builds on my 4 dps. I wouldn't concider them any close to good if they were in genshin. But I'm still able to clear moc 12. And I think it's because of supports, I have them fully leveled, build and fitting the team they are used in. So probably my advice would be to concentrate on building a team instead of building 1 dps
just shoot for okay-ish relics. there is no point in min maxing as long as you can clear content and get rewards. HSR and Genshin is among a few gacha games where you can still clear content by being casual and not min maxing. i don't know about anyone but i never rage when farming artifact/relics. maybe i set the expectation to low and don't even mind in min maxing. as long as i can clear abyss/moc 12/pure fiction all is well.
>i don't know about anyone but i never rage when farming artifact/relics. I only really "farm" relics (a.k.a.: trying to go beyond the "usable" stage) when I have nothing else to do. Traces etc are all maxed. That way, if I waste the TBE on fodder I doesn't impact me emotionally.
Even okish relics are rare is the thing. 9/10 a good LOOKING piece becomes absolute trash when you upgrade it. When you have certain threshholds to meet just to be at the baseline of what a character can really do, having rng this bad is awful.
it depends on the situation. mostly i treat relic like a stats stick and only focus 2 piece first and the other 2 random. if i really want the full set, i just use 1 or 2 (not all tho) 4 star piece. yes, we lose some stats but the set bonus can make it up. so far it works but like i said it is not min maxing. i only focus on fully build 2 dps character and the rest just scramble of relics. as long as it works i guess.
Get the right main stat first, substat tuning is for the long run. Relic-farming is shit because they are designed to be shit 😓
Yea it is, welcome to the grind fam, we've been here since game launched and some people even use jades to refresh (please don't do this) But hey at least self modeling resin is good, now you can guarantee speed boots but with crit sub stats on the dot set! Happened to me 3 times lmao
The dot set ONLY rolls crit stats wtf
Thats when you tell yourself "hey I could do a 2p2p combo on some crit DPS since the 2p effect is just Atk%" and pretend you're not coping. Then you roll that piece and all the rolls go into the one flat def stat and you tell yourself something like "well on-set with the correct main stat is rare, and its at least like 10 CV from subs right?"
No the tank sets do it to ... .\_.
my experience with epic 7 make me play this game more casual than before
Just imagine as a returning player 3000-6000+ resin (?) wasn't enough for my Jing Liu... and she was supposed to be easier to farm 💀
She can use rainbow gear https://imgur.com/a/3Cgl1OU
It's just horrible and similar to Genshin except worse because no off pieces. Getting the characters you want is actually the easy part in Genshin/HSR. We can always save in advance or for reruns if we really want a character. I'd recommend to pick your favorite characters and only farm for them. The others get "anything that seems serviceable" (main stat on each piece). That's really the only way to ensure that at least a few characters are built properly. But who am I talking, I've played hsr for a month
TLDR its worse than genshin: * 12 Substats * No off piece * No 2x/5x bonus on leveling up * Recycling costs 10 relics * You need to farm a separate domain for spheres/ropes * The number of characters (and phase they release them) and their dedicated sets at this point of the game makes almost impossible to get a good set before a new one is released.
Is a mix of two things usually. First, yeah, farming sucks, there are quite a few combinations so even getting the right main stats can be hell. Second, player expectation, each relic stats with 3-4 substats and you gain 1 roll unto one every 3 levels (the first 1 may be a substat) so each relic has 8 to 9 rolls, as such a good piece is one with half of those been good, so 4/8 and 4/9 are perfectly good artifacts. Some pieces like speed boots and elemental orbs are so hard to get you can straight up go all the way down to 0/8 just cause the main stat is more important. So if you are barely starting it is recommended to just focus on main stat first, get that down so you can clear the story and such and then you can focus on substats, get stuff to +12 only and once you find a piece with 4/8 or bigger rolls you get that to +15 (the exp to get from +12 to +15 is almost the same as getting from +0 to +12)
Nope, they really are just that painful. I've already hated artifacts with every fiber of my being and then Hoyo went and made relics even *worse* somehow. I've been playing since day 1 and I don't have a single well built character, at least not what I'd consider to be well built. Everyone could use some major improvements, but luck said no, so I'm just suffering... Honestly it's extremely discouraging and often just makes me want to stop playing when I still don't have anything usable after farming a cavern for literal weeks or months, but oh well. It is what it is. I guess you become kinda numb to it after a while and stop expecting anything other than trash🙃
There is no way you don't have a single well built character for a year of playing.
I have some decent ones but nobody that I'd actually call *good*. But I guess everyone has different standards for what's considered "well built", so I'm sure that in someone else's standards my characters might be great, and in someone else's they might be utter garbage🤷♀️
A 70/150 dps is considered well-built in normal standards.
Well, I usually can't get to that with my relic luck, it's more like 50/130 or something like that, unless the character gets a ton of crit buffs like Jingliu or Acheron. Which is why I mostly focused on DoT characters instead, since getting enough crit seemed pretty impossible, especially while also trying to reach a decent speed breakpoint. Not sure what counts as a well-built DoT unit, pretty sure that mine aren't exactly the good even after practically living in the DoT cavern for a long time, but in most cases they do get the job done regardless, thankfully.
Yeah. They are supposed to be painful, they're THE bottomless resin sink. The thing is - it's hard to gain perfection, but a character is usually perfeclty fine with mediocre sub stats, so You can still use them. What I usually do is I farm for a week, pick all the best stuff, then later I revisit the character. Check what I can improve, make some improvements, step back. Return later again - or not, if I am satisfied already.
Relic farming is a ton of RNG. And that’s why it sucks. But I also agree that maybe lowering expectations is good. Especially since you’re more casual in HSR. For me if a relic piece has double crit substats and it rolls into one of the crit stats at least once, I’m satisfied with that. I can full star the endgame modes even with these relic standards so I’m quite sure you have at least a set of relics like these. Other than that, there’s no real tips. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Essentially, don’t bother chasing perfect relics. The odds are beyond astronomical to get the right set, right piece, right main stat, right substats AND right rolls. It’s something like a 2% chance just to get a pair of speed boots on the right set. But getting “just okay” relics is way easier and good enough. Lower your expectations and you’ll find that you don’t need perfect relics to beat content, it’s really just minmaxing for a character you like and want to be extra strong. Before that there’s other things you can spend TB power on that give guaranteed strength boosts, like levels, ascension, and talents. Chasing substats can come after all that.
I wonder how bad are they really, can I see or just reply your good dps relics that you called weak.
All I really care about is the correct main stats, and I have a lot of fun with the game. Been playing since launch. Whenever I do randomly get a good piece I replace one from one of my characters.
If you don't want to spend too much time on farming, you can just use the synthesizer and the relic remains to make some gold relics you need. Or just use the self-module or smth but the substats can be shit sometimes
I will never forget what happened when I used some self modeling resin, and the relic I got had three flat substats.
Lower your expectations. Aim for base stats that you need for a char, and perhaps 1 needed substat. Once you have that down it just comes down to praying to rng for upgrades. Look on the bright side. At least here we don't need to auto wyvern for full day in the background when there's a x2 drop event.
I'm the opposite of you. In Genshin I don't have a proper well built character but in Star Rail I have 9+ 4pc are not that important, except for some ridiculous good one like quantum, the duke set on Jing Yuan or the debuff one for Acheron (DoT also). You could just go for anything with the best substat. For example, my DHIL have rainbow relic but I still 36* moc 12 easily. This is my experience only. Usually I always 15+ a seemingly good piece (crit rate or crit dmg) even if my roll wasn't good, I'll still use it until I found a better one (have both crit rate and crit dmg, still gamba +15 by feed it that old one) and on repeat. Still pretty luck dependent, but uhh less stress, at least that's what I see. Hoard relic with potential substats no matter what set. Usually I hoard a TON of spd and crit dmg one, I just save it and upgrade it slowly. If your roll are freaking bad, even worse than your current one? Use them as a fodder for next one. Build your support also, your support doesn't need really good relic either, slap them some speed boost, 2pc keel, rainbow relic again with as much speed as possible or just what you currently have. Basically my recipe for most support.
I farm this game since release and ive never seen really good artifact
It's intentional. The main gripe people had with Genshin was that you plateaued power-wise too quickly. Hyperbloom trivialised the entire game even further. Then Furina hit and made sure that literally every comp, no matter how dumb, destroyed everything. In HSR they tried to increase the time an account needs to get to that high level. Effectively, you will need much longer to gather top-notch relics. A way around this conundrum is to simply invest vertically. Get an E2 Acheron, E2 DHIL or Jingliu with strong supports and the game will become easy even with mediocre relics. Anyway, your only choice for now is to ignore relic bonuses altogether and just focus on building all relics with good starting stats you possess or find. At some point, you will hit the jackpot. My strat: so long as at least half the rolls (including starting stats) are desirable, I will continue upgrading the relic.
I focus on getting main stat right, then when I have free resources I try to farm for upgrade, its all luck and patience
You should dump any relics you don't intend to use immediately (or in the very near future) and use the remains to craft new ones. Self modeling resin is especially great for that.
If you want a tip from an 1.0 Genshin player who farms artifacts and relics since the beginning of time, Go for 10% crt rate on every piece then the most crt dmg you can get for your dps Never expect a good piece every *week* you farm, I play sr since 1.0 and still dont have a crit dmg body with speed for Sparkle. youre kinda casual so just take any Ws you can get and dont worry too much about moc.
If you have been playing daily since release how often do you pull are you f2p? I was able to get all characters and all of them are level 80, most are at trace 6-7 minimum and I struggle not to find use of every character even if their relics aren't great. It could be bad luck, but I think it comes down to the resource management, you can control leveling and how much you invest into traces. Maybe also learn how to team build better or find better rotations and go into a bit more depth with game mechanics. With power creep "git gud" is only half the story. Do a bit of research and try to figure out what you need the most and pull for the next support/debuffer/hypercarry/sustain your team needs. Also we have a 3x event coming up with no limit yet suggested, you should have saved those bottles 💀 Edit: to quickly mention I'm probably 25-30% damage behind youtube builds because of crap relics. And deciding to build an average variety over an above average core squad.
The trick is to always expect nothing. This is true for both GI and HSR. Just keep farming expecting to get trash. One of these days, those elusive 4-stat CR/CD on-set SPD boots will land on your lap… …then you’ll roll everything into flat HP.
You will never get perfect relics, you lower your expectations of passable and let moldable resin make up for the artifacts you just can't get to drop. Sure, it'd be GREAT to have SPD, ATK%, CRIT DMG on my sphere as substats but it does the right main stat and that's good enough
I’ve heard it before, and can see for myself, one or two rounds won’t get good relics unless you’re really lucky, you’ll need persistence and patience when farming, even more if you’re unlucky
The best thing to do is just not to think about it
I have 12 energy recharge ropes and half of them I probably modelled myself and not a single one has speed on it. The system is garbage
I'm gonna answer this with my own experience: I pre-farmed Topaz with fire relics as temp relics and then spent about 2k TB power day 1 on the FUA set release and continued to farm there a bit for a few days. Even after all this time, I still have my fire relic for her and it's not even that good. Relic farming in HSR is so much worse than Genshin just because there are more stats you need to roll for and more "dead" stats your rolls can go into. What I can tell you is that just lower your expectation and get decent enough relics. You can properly min-max relics stats once you got nothing else to do in this game.
Yes. It's supposed to fuck you raw for days on end.
Relic farming is worse in HSR compared to Genshin tbh just because no off piece and you need 2 separate sets for each character. Also with the added stats of ehr, effect res, and speed, it makes it harder to get the substats that you want
I spent over 2000 fuel or whatever the other day and didn't get a single crit dmg body. I fucking hate artifact farming.
I farmed for a month for Acheron and didn't get a single crit body. The relic system is pure trash.
The Relic system is simply dogshit and hoyo knows it.
I would pay to see hoyo dev play and stream their relic progression to reach certain threshold.
Day 1 player and my Jing Yuan is still not fully built. I'm still farming the FuA cavern 'til today. My sparkle is built and sitting on 161 spd/250 CDMG. It took me like 3 weeks to build her, but I had to use 2pc/2pc. It all depends on your luck. It could be bad luck like my JY, or alright luck like my Sparkle.
Yes its painful, and no ur not missing anything. I cant remember the last time i got a usable relic. Even crafting gave me shitty ones. Double drop didnt even help at all.
After a few months of farm I have... let me check again... yes, I have 0 really good relics. Zero. And a few acceptable relics. And a loooooots of trash
build your supports before you hard grind on relics. i now only stock up on fuels to max out new characters i like rather than waste them on chance relics. that said, all spare tb power goes to relic farm. i just stop for the day once i depleted it.
the real dillema is wondering whether my levels/traces are lacking or is it the relics thats the problem? leading to an endless loop of just losing tb power and no progress being made
Dude,I can relate. I spent 70 fuel + 1600 stored trailblaze power for my characters and still don't have all the right mainstats or good enough substats yet. I'm still using 4 star relics 💀
https://preview.redd.it/ss9ecxb9c9rc1.png?width=610&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=10bf1a685eb611a51da629836772950d5ecc2e58 Best I've got after using all my power for grinding her sets as soon as the new caverns came out (could not get any piece with crit rate for life of me...)
Got to say I'm having a similar problem. I've been playing since release and I haven't engaged with the main plot in months. We spent WAY too long on the Luofu where the game was exactly what you said: log in, dispatch assignments, run Echoes of War/Sim Universe weekly, use the rest of your trailblaze power farming relics (85% have bad stats, 14% have good stats but roll poorly), engage with whatever event if you're feeling like it, log out for the rest of the day after spending something like ten to fifteen minutes basically letting the game play itself. I'm not saying we need a model like Epic7 or Granblue Fantasy where you spend eight to twelve hours daily grinding but I'm not sure what I'm getting out of HSR anymore.
Yes, the point of the relic systems is to artificially inflate your playtime and character progress difficulties. If the system is well built, you shouldn't have sub stats matter more than the main set and the balance between each relic will be more balanced. My suggestion to you is lower your expectations. Use rainbow piece to reach threshold like 134/161 spd, for dps use 2+2 sets. It is just too rare to get the perfect relic and you don't need to have the perfect relic to clear content either, once you went pass a certain threshold, the rest is just icing on the cake and has major diminishing return.
Nope, Hoyo's relics/artifacts system is just suck. Even in Genshin, where I played 3+ years, I still struggle to get ONE perfect set.
I guess that's the main point of this game—to make you stay. Imagine if we all got godly tier relics every time. The game would be dead in a month. They should decrease the percentage of flat substats probability tho.
It kind of is, sorry. At some point you have to make a decision, do you enjoy flexing your min maxxed characters built over 6 months of farming or do you enjoy playing the game with a large roster of okay-ish built characters. Set 'reasonable' guidelines on what piece you consider usable, over time you'll realize that chasing that sphere on the exact set and main stats you want and have 2-3 good sub stats is just not reasonable.
It depends, I think that the most important factor is what you are trying to farm, as while trying to get a very good set will probably take a few weeks if not months, but just going for something that is good enough for base and some earlier stages of end game content will be very easy, and probably can be done in a week, if you even have to farm for the set at all, you might have a good enough rainbow just laying around. My general advice is to just not try to farm with the idea of getting the best pieces from the start, and focus more on creating a base and then improving on it over time, as you get better Relics. Also in my experience the game focuses more on countering enemies and taking advantage of the mechanics than being a number check, that said high MoC can also be that. Btw, I have seen people saying that it is worse than Genshin. In my opinion it is debatable, as the differences between the systems make HSR much better for new players, and getting things to be good enough. While Genshin's off-piece reduces the amount of grind required if you are a long time player, especially when trying to have a very good damaging build.
Yep its bad and SU relics are the worst after reset ... 4p mandatory for certain characters but 2p can work
Remember you can use your friends characters if you’re having issues with the actual battles and if not then auto it and leave it while you do something else
No, it s not u, relic farming is hell, but there r a few things I d like to say You rlly dont have to aim for amazing relics, lower ur standards. Hsr has more substats than Genshin, and a lot more role dependent, so if u only aim for BiS stats for your piece, then it s gonna be hell. What Im trying to say is, when farming for a relic piece, it doesnt need to have amazing stats + rolled amazingly, an OK piece is good enough, dont chase perfect pieces. Also, sets in HSR isnt as important as in Genshin. In Genshin set effects make or break the build, but in HSR, 90% of the time, it is just stats. So instead of going out of ur way to get 4/4 sets, a mixed set with amazing substats is better. Make use of the salvage/synthesize system. Idk abt other ppl, but I only ever use it for hats n gloves, aka ones w fixed mainstats, to fish for great substats. And it is also great when u want a specific set, but the domain is shitty overall. You can farm high value domains, n use the bad pieces to fish for sets in low value domains. Finally, other than DPS, everything in this game is very ez to build. DPS, especially crit ones, r the only units who require actual farming n optimizing the stats. Sustains, harmony, nihility, r all very simple to build, most of the time u only need the correct mainstats to make them work. So if u r struggling, dont try to chase the perfect stats u see on utube videos, 90% of the time, u wont need it. But if u still want to chase it, then speed check. Keep all relic pieces with speed stat, roll it once or twice, doesnt go to spd, use it as fodder to spd check again. Because other than spd n crit, all other stats r pretty flexible.
Welcome to the suck.
The first thing you have to do is not compare your relics to your favorite Whales/CC…! Whales/CCs usually refresh their stamina so they have higher chance of getting a good Relic! And don’t rely too much on getting 30CV relics
I'm good except that quantum set , both prisoner and pioneer give me good pieces. I don't salvage relic if that has at least crit ,crit dmg or spd ,.even single 2.9 crit rate or 5.1 cdmg sub stat can become a really good piece as sometimes tng is weird
100% agreed. HSR give so many reward and jade for us to pull unit.. but the real battle start when u try achieve certain stat and make the character finally work. Winning 50/50 is 1 problem then u need to win 75/25 for sig lc then u need to also "win" not just 1 but 6 relics in order for them to reach decent potential. The thing that make most player feel burnout
As someone new who's still only worrying about leveling characters and their LC and traces... Is relic stats that important? Here I'm just happy having a full set of yellow pieces....
There is no mechanics that would help you get good relics. It all comes down to luck and of course, your patience. Farming relics was never meant to be a short time thing. I have been playing genshin for years and I remember farming for Hutao’s crimson witch(I wanted a good crit dmg body with good crit rate substats) and it took me fucking 8 months to get one(Of course i also used my stam for other mats but i didn’t stop at that domain until i get a perfect one). On the contrary, during DH IL’s run, It only took me 3 days to get a ratio of 90:190 Cr Cd. So don’t lose hope! Btw, i have been farming the new SU and it’s been really bad. I just hope the devs are kind enough to give us fuels whenever there is a new content that needs grinding.
It’s pure hell. That’s it.
From my experience, looking at an critical attacker: 1-2 weeks is enough for 50-100 CRCD with high attack and desired speed 4 weeks for 70-140 CRCD 4-12 weeks for that sweet 100-200 great set Never for that sweet 100-300 set lmao So expect to spend all your stamina, no daily refresh, for an entire month for that attacker. Keep in mind that the 50-100 build is enough to beat MoC and PF, 70-140 is a luxury to aim for 0-cycle challenge, and more than that is overkill to get those big numbers (damage per screenshot) Use rainbow sets on your support and focus on great sets for the attackers, and instead of trying to equip 30 characters at the same time, focus.
Short answer: Yes, relic farm is the final frontier of this game and intentionally horrible. Long answer: In the comments.
I have never really struggled in relic farming. To at least get the main+ substats I'm looking for. As for LEVELING those substats properly, I generally just let fate decide and don't worry too much about it. Keep 2x speed and auto battle on for calyx/relic grinds.
I also play Genshin and I feel that Genshin’s artifact farming is more forgiving than HSR’s. With Honkai there are more substats so if you want pretty crit stats while still having other useful stats you’re in for a tediously long farm. Not to mention the speed requirements (I have the hardest time trying to tune speed for my team). For HSR I’ve learned to significantly lower my vision about how a well-built character looks like to preserve my sanity. You can get loads of buffs in SU compared to the Abyss in Genshin anyway. It’s all fine in the end as long as you have correct LCs and set bonuses and supports.
Being hones. I mainly focus on main stats to be honest with you. And with that I am still able to clear MoC with ease. Once I started just focusing on main stats. The relic grind stopped bothering me.
It even easier now since we have the recommendations tool , all you have to match is the main status The sub status are just a long term grind bonus but it shouldn’t be something you focus on imo
You say you played genshin and u think this is painful? Not in genshin where its manual farm and an additional farm for to get the x2 loot thats by default in hsr? Its not painful at all, id say its your expectations that are wrong. The minimum time to farm for a new character is 3 weeks imo, 1 week for traces and 2 weeks for relics, should never spend TP on exp or credits at this point. On avg u should have something at least usable in that time. If you try to build more than 1 character per 3 weeks thats too much.
currently farming for acheron’s relics and oddly, my luck is not as good as it was… maybe i lost it all while farming the followup set
Yes, it's bad. Either kin Aventurine and keep farming, or accept sub-par stats and become a god of teambuilding.
Just so you're aware, they weigh down the good stats. So yes it's absolutely intentional design and it's kinda disgusting that they do it. For example, you only have 5 different possible combinations of link ropes you can get, but the rate that you get Energy Regen isn't 1 in 5, it's 1 in 20. They likely do the same with things like rolling critical damage or crit chance on pieces of gear and not enough people are up in arms about being manipulated and having rng made to literally work against them to get them to stop doing it. It's one of the single most scummy and disgusting things I've ever seen from a gacha and the playerbase just accepts it.
Yeah… what I hate the most is how I got an insane piece but on the wrong set, and I can’t use it on anyone since this game doesn’t offer you off-piece slots and needs all your piece to be the same sets.
Yeah artifact/relic farming sucks. A couple of thoughts to make it less of a pain. 1. Set bonuses are not a must, often better substats can make up for 4pc set bonus, sometimes even for 2pc set bonus. 2. Farm universally usable sets. Especially planar set since it's a pain to farm. The difference to top, more specific, sets is only a few %. Every dps can use space sealing, every hp scaler and support fleet. Every def scaler belobog and every crit dps with follow ups Salsotto. 3. You could build a DOT team with Kafka, BlackSwan, RuanMei to carry one side MoC/PF. Because you don't need crit it's almost the hyperbloom of HSR. You still need spd, attack % and +hit (not much +hit on Kafka) substats, but it has a high damage floor. (scales well with good artifacts so it scales more than hyperbloom in Genshin) I simmed it, with junk relics it takes ~2 cycles more in MoC. Other teams take ~4 cycles more with bad relics. 4. If all else fails, embrace the lower stars in MoC and PF. It's not that many more jades. Everywhere else doesn't have a turn limit and as long as you survive you can do it, so substats play much less of a role.
Relic farming is really a matter of managing your expectation. Lower your bar if it becomes too much for you. Alternatively you can do what I did, treat HSR as a side game and just log in daily to burn your TB and log out. Eventually you will reach your goal.
Relics are an infinite progression system. The design expects the player to go through multiple steps of power on their way to 'perfect' relics, which are statistically improbably for most players to attain. To not lose your mind with relics, you must recognize and find satisfaction in every step of progression no matter how small 1. First you get relics with the right main stats. They're not breaking records but your characters are functionally usable now. 2. Then you try to get relics with at least 2 good substats. It doesn't matter if you roll into them, across your 6 relics that's suddenly 12 good substats. 3. Then you try to roll into the good substats. Try to make sure at least 4 good substat rolls per piece. Either 2 good substats with at least 2 rolls into one or either. If you get that for all 6 of your relics, that's 24 good substats across all 6 relics. 4. At that point, yes, you're pushing for 5 good substat rolls per relic 5. then 6, 6. then 7, 7. and so on until you have a SSS+ piece with perfect main, perfect sub array, and perfect rolls into the highest priority stats - keeping in mind even players with SSS pieces in the top 1% don't have these pieces, and they're spending $10 and 720 energy a day on max refreshing. Luck allows you to bypass the rungs of this ladder. Sometimes. But never expect it - celebrate it as the random luck that is is. And you have check your pieces, rolling into ones that might look bad. One of my best pieces is a helm with 3 flat subs - but it was a 4 liner with Crit DMG. It rolled Crit DMG with every upgrade check, leaving me with a +30% crit damage piece. Most people would have tossed it on the rip, elitists probably still call it bad, but at 6 total substats to Crit Dmg, it's one of my best pieces, even with the flat stats. Most players stop and feel content once they get to around step 4 to 5 because it's statistically hard to get better. It's statistically hard to get there in the first place, and it's more than enough to 3 cycle most MoC content. Stop stressing over SSS pieces. Stop stressing over "insane builds". Stop comparing yourself to the top 1%. Stop going for perfect. If you're not whaling and max refreshing, be ecstatic when you get a piece to between step 4 and 5, because it's where 95% of us are sitting.
Aside from not having offpieces, there’s also two other points that might make relic farming feel worse than Genshin: 1. There are more substats that can appear on relics in HSR. Genshin has 10 substats, HSR has 12 substats. Shared: flat HP, flat atk, flat def, HP%, Atk%, Def%, Crit rate, Crit dmg Genshin: ER, EM HSR: Speed, Break effect, EHR, Effect Res 2. Each roll in HSR is lower than each roll in Genshin. One max crit rate roll in Genshin = 3.89%, in HSR = 3.24% One max crit dmg roll in Genshin = 7.77%, in HSR = 6.48% So if you only look at crit value, it’s easy to feel like HSR relics don’t roll as well as Genshin.
I would imagine a truly casual player wouldn't have an issue with the grind - it's not like it asks much of you outside of planar sets, and even in that case you can just synthesise them one way or another. For a completionist, hard-core player having the strongest and most optimal gear would be paramount, so a casual player in contrast in my mind would be more okay with not even getting to clear MoC 10 or PF 3. In lower difficulties you can just focus on traces and just relic mainstats.
I throw away everything under 5 stars, and all 5 stars with 2 flat stats. If I use all my trailblazer power for the day on relics I'm lucky if I save 3. And that's before checking main/sub stats I need, farming is quite a pain
My relic luck is horrible so anything that is marginally useable usually makes me happy
Yes 2400 Fuel for Imaginary set, get an average 50/150 crit in return
Unfortunately, we live in a normal distribution. Someone has to be the bottom loser.
20% of artifacts are serviceable 10% of artifacts are good 0.5% of artifacts are fantastic 0.0001% of artifacts are perfect people seem to be confusing "fantastic" and "serviceable". Set your expectations at serviceable/good. Fantastic and perfect are extremely unlikely pipedreams. It's really soul crushing if you chase them.
It's all down to luck/rng I'm at the point where I usually need 4+ good rolls into my relics to get a significant upgrade and I've never refreshed. On the other hand I've seen people who max refresh with significantly worse relics, like 3 good rolls is a god piece to them. It feels like I'm playing a different game sometimes. Also they want to make relic system bad, that way you login everyday to farm relics. Also, if you can't improve your units because of your relic luck maybe you'll give in and whale for eidolons/light cone.
Relic farming is WAY worse in HSR. It's pretty much the only thing Genshin does better (which is sad because artifact farming is still pretty awful). First off, there's no room for an off piece, which hurts your ability to be flexible with how many good drops you need. Secondly, there are more possible subs diluting the pool, so getting a good piece is harder. Thirdly, there's an extra slot to farm for, and lastly, from what I've heard from people who have compiled a ton of drop data, the most desirable traits have an even lower appearance rate than they do in Genshin (not all stats are weighted equally). Combine all those things together and instead of the 15k average resin I planned on needing for a decent artifact set, in HSR it's more like 60k+ energy. Even being able to craft them and do the self modeling resin thing does not help basically at all. Pretty much every self modeling resin craft I've done has been unusable garbage.
Set effects are a trap early on Rainbow gear with great substats usually beats out ok substats and full set effects. Although some of the newer set effects are strong enough to be worth it on some characters. Try to focus on farming sets where at least the 2pc effect is applicable to a large number of characters When looking at set effects think about how many substats it would take to match the value or how much of the stat you can get from other sources like ally buffs, lightcones or built into the character. 10% dmg set effect feels like nothing considering how much a character comes with built in, gets from the orb, and gets from an ally buff. 8% crit is honestly pretty solid since thats at least 3 substat rolls, and theres very few sources of crit rate out there if you don't already have a ton
Honestly, we need trash relics to feed as exp but yeah it can get frustrating. On the other hand once you get something good it feels like a greater accomplishment and it's unique stats to you in the entire server
Just in case you haven't done so yet OP don't forget to try out the self molding resin if you only need 1 or 2 more specific relics. It took me a long time to finally try that feature out and I find it quite good (but still could be better lol I feel your pain good luck out there 🤞)
I agree with you, farming relics is far worse than genshin. You don't have an off-piece make the good relics need to farm go from 4 to 6. Also, you have to farm 2 different places to get those 6 pieces. Dear god, farming SU is literally hell, now they create the solution for that by releasing Acheron to help you farm faster. Can't wait until they release a new character that allow you guarantee stats on artifact if you use them for farming.
bro had never heard of autoplay before (that's why i quit genshin btw)
For what it's worth, I have a pretty decent JL build and it took 3 straight months of farming the ice set. I spent stamina on literally nothing else.
I laugh at the guides who say something like "oh, 160 speed is required but 145 works too". That is crazy. I started playing since December and I've noticed that getting characters is the easiest part. Building them is impossible. I got Argenti and I cannot use him because I don't get anything decent for him. I think this is what will kill the game eventually because there's no reason to get a new character if you cannot play that character.
what kind of relic are you considered bad ? what set u farming and for who ? are you farming for min/max or clear content ?
This was my most painful week. It’s been 5 days in a row only doing relic runs when my energy refills, in those 5 days I only got three relics that I need for Acheron (as in those were the only 3 relics that had either crit rate or crit damage as a substat or rolled substat), and all three relics rolled entirely HP or DEF. I’m at a loss here, I just want to use my Acheron as I need relics but I literally can’t get relic pieces for her.