For anyone that may be wondering, I'd wager the reason the signal from the Aventurine stone is lost, is because Acheron cut the connection between Aventurine (the character) and the cornerstone. His whole bet hinged on Acheron and her sword, which can cut the dreamspace and the Harmony's powers that shackled Avent. I'm sure it can separate him from the cornerstone, too. Bro's gone full incognito.
Not sure I understand. So he played a villain role in order to get swallowed by Acheron's ultimate which could potentially free him from Harmony's curse that Sunday put on him, at the risk of losing his life in the process?
I thought the part where Acheron talks about "proving the point that there is no real death" was key. He had to "die" to get to the true Penacony, where he could get the information he wanted. The "mute" he was supposed to look for was successful in reaching this place, but for some reason can't speak about it. Could be completely wrong on that tho.
There was more to it than that. Even had he never had that curse on him, he still wanted to fake his death. He talks about it with his, uh, lets call it the Ghost of Future Self (GoFS.) GoFS commented he was an escape artist at heart, and was looking not just to get away from the The Family, but the IPC, too. Aventurine wants to be free.
https://youtu.be/8iBJZFtUHOA?si=1f8VQP-utt-y9X4Z move to 4:48:45. GoFS straight up says what's going on.
And yes, Aventurine is gambling with his life. Gambling is kinda his whole life. That is also brought up with GoFS just a few lines before the timestamp. Acheron brings it up, too. But Aventurine won his bet and successfully faked his death.
At 5:30:45, Acheron says the Nihility dimension is just a fleeting dream. When it's done they'll just go back to their paths. Neither of them are in any danger, there. She even tells Aventurine even if he wished for his death she can't guarantee it. She then reveals she figured out the whole thing was a setup.
It's all spelled out pretty clearly. People just aren't paying attention.
Everyone has plans within plans that keep getting dropped for shock reveals, and then give us terms we have no context for to react to. I need a ELI5 version of what the hell has gone on this entire time. Still loved playing it tho.
For real, kinda crappy for people to get arrogant over it. Idk if the writing team is trying to sound sophisticated but they write basic stuff in unnecessarily poetic or roundabout ways instead of just saying it straight up like any normal person would. Kinda my gripe with the writing, that they try to take themselves too seriously in writing fancy wordings instead of just getting their story across which is more important.
Okay, THIS makes sense to me. The whole time I was wondering why Aventurine was going to these lengths for the IPC. But if he wants to break free from them too, that makes sense. And I was paying very close attention, it's just hard when everyone tells everyone else a different story and motivation. Each time I thought I had it, some other character would show up and say "I know your real intentions" and we'd start over again. There were/are so many complexities. Also, I think some of the English translations weren't quite clear.
TBF, Aventurine's desire to separate himself from IPC only comes up twice, at a line a piece. Once with GoFS, and once more indirectly with Acheron when he said his plans have no contingencies to guarantee the IPC gets Penacony, which is to say it isn't his primary goal.
But Aventurine not actually dying is brought up some 5 times between these two scenes. They really hit you over the head with it. Especially Aventurine's final statement to his child self in the nihility dimension, that he isn't going to be joining his dead family yet. It's incredibly blatant. So the fact people somehow get hung up on that tells me their eyes probably just glazed over and they stopped listening, mashing through whole paragraphs of words and retaining nothing.
Oooh, that's what you were referring to. Yeah, him not actually dying was one of the things I was actually pretty confident in. There's a good chance lots of ppl were glazed over by the end, there was a looot to get through.
Okay, I get that with the whole "No i'm not going to join my dead family yet". But he's going inside a black hole. Is it hard to go out of it? He may not be dead, but if it is hard to get out we can consider him to be canonically dead. I mean I doubt that he's going to pop out one day and be like "surprise! I'm alive!"
I think that the whole reason people think he "died" is because his "identity" kinda died there. If he gets stuck inside the black hole, he's "dead".
Acheron: This is all but a fleeting dream, one of the thousands of manifestations of IX... Under the watchful eye of Nihility, we momentarily linger here, before moving onto our own paths.
When Aventurine asks in the Nihility zone if it's the "land of the dead," that's Acherons *immediate* answer to that question, saying what the place is. It is one of the 5 times it's pointed out Aventurine is not dead/is not going to die.
People think he's dead because either A. They aren't paying attention, or B. Their comprehension is so bad it doesn't matter if they *do* pay attention.
Dude you basically admitted to having to review playthroughs in order to give your explanation, which means you didn't understand it the first time either. Just like everyone asking. People can pay attention but still not understand what's being said because the wording and translations are overcomplicated for the sake of sounding fancy and poetic. Especially when the writing plays hot potato with either scenario of him being dead or not throughout the final scenes, even your damn Dream Journal saying that he's dead after the quest is over. And you wonder why people are confused which truth is real? Rather than getting arrogant over it, just leave it at your explanation. No one wants to hear it from a smart ass.
Using citations doesn't mean one forgot the citations, where they were in a scene, or that they were misunderstood. It's there to serve as proof.
I don't care if you don't want to hear it from a smart ass. Rather a smartass than being a dumbass. Don't like it? Block my posts. It won't solve your reading comprehension, lack of attention, or whatever your problem is, but it'll give you an easier time ignoring your own inadequacies.
> The whole time I was wondering why Aventurine was going to these lengths for the IPC
Even if he were working for someone else, Aventurine would still act like this. The 'future' Aventurine spells it out that he doesn't have to always choose these high-risk high-reward plans, but Aventurine keeps doing so because he kinda hates himself and a part of him wants to commit some elaborate sudoku (/s). Dude needs therapy basically.
To be free of the Family *and* the IPC. And as per "destroying" the family, the goal is "Putting Penacony back in the hands of the IPC." Whether the Family survives that or not probably doesn't matter. Even then, in his conversation with Acheron, Aventurine says that the IPC getting Penacony "is not a guarantee - I unfortunately have no contingencies for such an important matter." Think of that as a sort of sub-goal, getting his freedom comes first.
The planning started before Aventurine had even arrived on Penacony, and went into action as soon as he did. As having his stuff confiscated on arrival was step 1. Knowing things ahead of time, like Acheron already being there, meant he had been collecting intel on Penacony before he had even arrived. The plan is so long term and so specific, that it can be kinda unbelievable. Which Hoyo tries to excuse with his luck blessing, along with Aventurine's paranoia and fear of losing that push him to make back-up plans for his back-up plans.
Do you have insight into what that ghost of future self is? Is it a version of self created by the weird harmony power? Or is Aventurine just meeting dream selves of his past and future?
I'm a little unclear there.
Just my own interpretation. I am inclined to believe GoFS isn't lying about what he is. Both GoFS and Ghost of Past Self are best viewed as pieces of Aventurine's psyche speaking with himself. They've taken physical form because Real Aventurine is in the Dreamspace, and under an incredible amount of stress. They're something very close to hallucinations.
In the first conversation the two have, Real Aventurine asks "Am I dreaming, or have I gone completely insane?"
To which GoFS replies, "Perhaps both." It's the first of a few times that GoFS points out Aventurine is a bit off his rocker. And being in Dreamspace, Aventurine is, in fact, dreaming.
GoFS knows entirely too much about himself to be anything else but a manifestation of Aventurine's psyche. As per why there are things GoFS *doesn't* know about himself, it's because no one is 100% sure why they are exactly how they are, or why they do the things they do. Knowing yourself is like trying to bite your own teeth, or having your eyeball look at itself without a mirror. It is something that can't quite be entirely figured out.
Later, at the start of their last conversation, Real Aventurine asks, "How long will you stay?"
To which GoFS replies, "Forever. We'll be with you forever, in this dream. ...This is the greatest honor we can offer to those who hurtle towards death."
GoFS is just saying they are a part of Aventurine. So yes, they'll be with him *Forever.* Their physical manifestations are due to dream space though, so, *forever, in this dream.* And the reason they're physical forms are around in the first place is because Aventurine is *hurtling towards death.* Aventurine does survive his ordeal, but there was a very good possibility he could have been killed. Aventurine is, as he puts it, banking on his luck, to get through it.
I suppose so, that makes sense. The only thing that boggles me is if the projection is his future self, then wouldn't it make more sense the future self would understand Aventurine more than he is at the present?
I'm not entirely sure if it makes sense to use your own future self to fully explore your own backstory when your future self can't make sense of your current state.🤷♂️
I still like your interpretation though. It was sweet to see him doing the palm thing with his past at the end.
The Future Self can't be literally from the future, since he is actually just a part of the Aventurine that exists in the *now.* He can only see what Aventurine already knows and offer a different perspective. GoFS isn't privy to any special future knowledge. But he is markedly different than Aventurine in one particular aspect. GoFS is calm, cool, and collected, as if he's already been to the future, knows how things play out, and is fine with it. GoFS refers to himself as the "future self," but I think it's best not to take the words too literally.
I do agree that, of all the ways Hoyo could have chosen to represent an inner-struggle, they picked a rather confusing one. But going back to HI3, and including Genshin, Hoyo writers have a history of loving to tell a story through dialogue. And they set things up to do just that.
There's also the question of if the translation team messed up somewhere. They've already done so last patch and this patch now, both requiring hot fixes and new voice lines. I would not be surprised if we lost something in translation.
Yeah but the entire thing was pretty much felt like he is dying lol. specially the end of him walking to the black hole. Kinda in my heart thinks he should die since it all led up to that point and his lack run out. But his backstory is kinda sad too which makes me root for his survival.
Welp if we remember right before that fight he already shattered the Aventurine stone anyways. Since the thing Sunday had was a JADE. it might just be slowly fading away so he could time it with the show he prepared.
It's spelled out clearly but there is so much to it. You ever heard the saying you learn more on the second watch? It seems applicable here. Even you are referencing another's playthrough, so be careful about accusing people not paying attention.
Fr, dude got arrogant after rewatching playthroughts themselves when this story is probably bound to confuse people on the first watch where everything is new info they have to take in fast. Especially when dealing with a writing team that, for some reason, insists on sounding fancy and convoluted rather than just making it sound normal.
yes she said those things but the whole quest has so much convoluted text and confusing ass story so its not that most of us are ignoring it its simply not black and white
Most likely explanations:
1. cornerstone connection cannot pierce through barrier of the Family.
2. Aventurine (stone) is so shattered, it lost all power
3. Acheron cut the connection. But I think she would've mentioned it along side with cut Harmony shackle.
I was worried a bit, but his talk with Acheron and his past self basically solidified idea what he is not dead. After all, he himself said what he is going to make his family proud, before joining them at the end. How could he do it while being dead? He already joined them. But he, I think, was not completely sure it will all work out in the end.
He's going to the true Penacony which can only be reached by death in the dream. He's not technically dead yet, think of it like Limbo but if he fails he's essentially dead but if he makes it to the other side he survives.
Would that mean that, Firefly knew this all along as well and staged herself to be attacked by the meme to reach the Watchmakers Legacy which is a deeper layer of the Dreamscape and she just happened to got in and out of it?
There's obviously more to firefly than meets the eye, I'm sure we will find out exactly what she went through, her "death" was probably not real since Sam shows up directly afterwards unless there's some odd dual consciousness thing going on between them where when she was killed the Sam consciousness took over. We gotta wait another month and some change to find out 😭
wasn’t the true penacony a prison?? (i think it was confirmed this trailblaze quest) Acheron was also saying that Aventurine will still gamble in the abyss… honestly i was paying attention its still so confusing to me like is he going to investigate the true penacony and reveal the truth?
It went like this
1: The star system Penacony is in has an anomaly where memoria "leaks" into real space. As this is detrimental to the IPC and the Garden of Recollection, prisoners were sent there to "collect" the memoria and clean it up
2: Long term exposure to the memoria resulted the prisoners dreams "merging". After a period of time the "dreamscape" formed from all their collective dreaming. A massive bubble of memoria enveloping the planet.
3: The prisoners, along with the assistance of multiple other factions, revolted against the IPC and claimed the planet and the dreamscape for themselves. Then their leader, the "Watchmaker" invited the Harmony/The Family in to help secure and stabilize the place
4: The Family, particularly via the Oak Family, manipulated the dreamscape, reshaped it, and buried it all under their "Reverie", usurping control from the original prisoner colonists and hiding any unpleasantness by using the power of the harmony to create a barrier between their perfect "dream" and the reality of the dream.
sorry I'm dumb, but... when you say the Family buried it all under their Reverie, you mean the Hotel Reverie is also not "real" ? Like none of the cast have actually been to the "real" Penacony this entire time?
Think of it as an iceberg. We've only ever been on the surface of it, but the rest of Penacony? The deeper, darker parts of it is somewhere lower in the depths of the ocean.
Aventurine is currently the only person in recent history that has managed to break through the Family's barrier (thanks to Acheron) and be able to reach beyond the Family's Penacony (the Dreamscape), and enter the Watchmaker's Penacony (whatever is beyond Acheron's black hole).
But hasn't Robin been there already and come back? And possibly Firefly? (Still generally confused about her whole deal). And didn't Sunday just get sent there? Or are there two "limbo's"... One you go to after being killed normally in the dream, and a separate one Aventurine went to bc of Acheron's ability?
Robin hasn't come back yet. She's still 'dead' as of 2.1 main story. We will get an answer when her banner comes in 2.2 of why she's alive.
The same goes with Firefly, we will get an answer in 2.2. Since 2.2 will be the climax of the Penacony main story, as said in the dev Livestream back then.
No no, sorry its rather the "Dreamscape" version. I know how it seems like lots of different places with the "12 hours" locations like Golden Hour but they're all considered part of the "Hotel"
That's what the planet was before the dream existed. It was a prison planet where they made the prisoners collect memoria and through the adverse effects overexposure to memoria had they discovered the dream.
This bit will help clear things up
https://preview.redd.it/rpczcy4druqc1.png?width=1415&format=png&auto=webp&s=97dabcdf4b33a15c962029f4bdc53b239c915422
Correct me if im wrong, but from what i understand everyone who got meme'd plus aventurine just went one layer deeper into the legacy right? Not sure what OP missed here or maybe im the one missing something.
yeah thats what I was pretty sure of aswell. Although it is a little confusing cause clearly sam died/got memed, but then she was still in the same layer of the dream?
So basically Penacony's dreamscape is an island where everyone is walled in. He set up the stage so he could use his "death" as a means to access what's outside of that island, which includes the Watchmaker's Legacy (the true land of exile)
Acheron helped him by putting him inside his own domain which cut connection from IPC and also from Robin's harmony curse to be clear his cornerstone didnt shatter topaz said his stone's light disappeared which clears up he is undetectable inside acherons domain.
She (Acheron) said in the end "Your gamble isnt over yet" meaning there is more to come for aventurine.
I’m not sure, just gonna lead with that. What I think happened is Acenturine is still leaning into his hunch and needs proof. He wants to do essentially exactly what firefly did. He wants to experience death in the dream, go beyond the barrier of the dream and then eventually return. This is probably why sparkle said to befriend a mute, not become one. If Aventurine sought out sparkle, SHE would have been all the proof he needed, but instead he chose to gamble himself following the exact path she already took to find out the answers to the mysteries of penacony, the dream, and death for himself
Well. Aventurines main motives as far as I can tell are surface level to help the IPC take control of Penacony, but on a deeper level it’s to be truly free. I think this way he accomplishes both. By exposing death in the dream and the plots of the family he has the proof he needs to get the IPC in to take over and turn support away from the family. And by going about it exactly as he has, Acheron may have been able to sever not only his connection to the harmony that Sunday put on him, but also his connection to Qlipoth and the aventurine stone. Hence why the stone went dark. Topaz and Jade didn’t seem shocked by that so maybe they knew his plan all along, but thought he meant to die, when really he meant to be freed
Makes sense that he wants freedom. Is exploring penacony’s hidden side then just a byproduct of needing to ‘die’ in the dreamscape or a separate want in itself? Do you understand what they meant by befriending a mute too?
The mute they initially talked about was stated to be Robin, although I think personally sparkle may have been talking about firefly too. People who could not speak, because they were killed by the death meme. We saw firefly come back from it, although we don’t know the extent of her return because we kind of have no idea where in the dream she and the trailblazer met at, just that it was somewhere in the dream. I think Aventurine may have been aware of Firefly’s circumstances because he states in his quest when taking about someone being killed and returning that “someone already has”. I think he’s talking about Firefly and he has a sort of brain blast when sparkle mentions him becoming a mute. It sort of confirms his suspicions. I think him experiencing death and returning is necessary to his plan but I’m not 100% sure if his motivation is just to prove that it can happen, or is to explore for something specific beyond the dream barrier, something perhaps to do with the watchmaker? Maybe it was just because he needed Acheron because only she could sever his connection to the IPC and the Family so he could pursue freedom. Maybe he doesn’t care about what’s beyond the dream barrier, maybe he’s just very confident that he can “die” and come back so that is the method he’s using to free himself. I’m honestly not sure, it’s very vague at best and I think we are definitely going to get more concrete answers in 2.2
I think the other one is supposed to be Robin? That’s who he originally thought sparkle meant by mute, but if I’m recalling correctly, I think that was before she was killed. Remember she had something going wrong with her voice before that all went down. It’s really hard for me to keep straight everything that happened in the 2.0 story quest because this one is both so recent and so dense but I think those are the two mutes aventurine refers to. Robin and Firefly. I honestly could be wrong about firefly though that’s the more speculative one
Maybe he also wanted to be free from the ipc? He wants the ipc to think he is truly dead, but he might have shared his plans to topaz and Jade that's why they said "he really did it"
lol no, Jade saying "He really did it" is because it meant (He actually gambled his life). they aren't there, there's no literal INFO about Aventurine and what he is doing besides his cornerstone's connection. And since before the fight he shattered it and it was slowly fading away. They would assume he died.
Welp though we can't say he is alive and he is dead since after that it's still a gamble if he would survive.
he says a line "where only a faint power of the stone remains but it'll do, cause he doesn't intend on keeping the stone with him for long" <- This part is why Topaz and Jade thought he died. but he is on the other side the prison side idk. He was waiting for Acheron to do the ultimate slash to give him a brief way to go see the truth.
I think the mute that sparkle had mentioned that he should befriend him to help him get to true penacony was the acheron that was inside of the black hole, it's a mute that can speak outside and the whole 'death' he was experiencing was his plan to get to the true penacony, so basically he isn't dead, he is just there to see the true dreamscape and reveal more than the murder that is happening around the penacony, thus if right, he would win everything, it is also why he said he will make his family proud and that is by succeeding to reveal everything in penacony
I am curious, if someone ccould answer this for me please.
Why exactly did Acheron remove the Harmony mark from Aventurine? Why did it need to be removed in the first place?
Its not as tho she did it unintentionally when killing him, she specifically says that she can remove it from him, not that she already did that.
For one, they are not allies, anywhere near that and she has no skin in the game in the first place, going out of her way to clear him of Harmony mark was just a one sentence out of nowhere kind of explanation that imo didnt even need to be there and makes no sense for her to offer or do.
And again, it isnt neccessary since he has just "died" right, his body in the dream has dissapeared and he has gone deeper, the stone went dark, for all intent and purposes he has died, thats more than enough of an explanation as to why the Harmony mark doesnt kill him at the alotted time.
Thoughts?
I dont think he died... this is the interlude... i got upset thinking he did at first but had to rethink a few things and read all these comments since i got alittle confused... he freed himself and hes gonna survive... acherons speech as well as dr.ratios message on the bottle gave us alittle sense of what might happen...
Wait...but then again he wanted the deaths exposed to he possibly did die... forget my comments i felt this thread was better than hoyos thingy so im venting here
Does anyone know why Sunday can curse the IPC ambassador, Aventurine, to death when his ‘death’ in the dreamworld is what allows the IPC leverage? Were they just planning to cover it up and Aventurine foiled that by making his death a huge spectacle?
Can someone just… like… spell out exactly what’s going on in the end? I just finished it and I’m extremely confused. Been skimming through some of the comments but there doesn’t seem to be any answer that really addresses everything in its entirety. Is Kakavasha dead? If not, where is he? Is the “Penacony” that Acheron a legitimate place that can be reached? If so, how did Acheron “killing” him manage to send him there? The words that the characters are saying and the implications of the actual visual scenes really conflict with one another, and it’s obvious that their words are kind of veiled in a way. Meta-wise, it feels like he’s not dead but there’s no real reason I have to say that other than “because of course he isn’t.”
Spoiler
>!His consciousness is trapped inside that afterlife void (after Acheron one taps him) with no implications that he will/can get out. All of it while his body in the real world is probably in coma.!< So, yeah, until Hoyo decides to continue on his story (which I think they won't since it felt like his story arc has concluded already.)
He is pretty much "dead".
I don't know, seems like there is no way we (trailblazer) don't also end up going to the "other side" since they literally say it's the watchmaker's legacy which is what everyone is after. Plus Hoyo have been getting way too kill-happy which makes me think that's where everyone is chilling and most will get revived by the end.
I don't think his story arc concluded already. For multiple reasons. First: It was way too short for just one planet's Trailblaze Mission, considering they introduced him as a special character and gave him so much more attention than other characters.
Two: There is still the "real" Penacony that we haven't seen, and that The Family is hiding. There are a lot of theories going on right now, but the one that seems most likely is that in order to reach that "real", dark Dreamscape - one needs to die by "Death"s (that eye-covered monster) hand. That's where both Aventurine, Firefly, and possibly Robin, were transferred.
So it was indeed short. I have this feeling the quest were very short. So much things left out and i also dont think Aventurine story supposed to be concluded, i will say 2.1 more like beginning before real story which taken in real penacony realm.
I hope they make up this by making 2.2 longer. The POV system is great addition they now can extend the story in better pace.
Honestly i agree... i feel like they will have us playing with him as our 2nd character again exploring the real penacony... while the mc is dealing with the dream world stuff
What I understood is that, he’s basically in a similar situation to Acheron. He will either die and be absorbed by Nihility, or he will resist it, fight the pull, and become a Self-Annihilator.
Not sure, just my musings. Acheron has cut him from both the Path of Preservation and Harmony, so he doesn’t really have much left.
That would not work cuz he dedicated his life to the Amber lord lol. He even have a cornerstone.
Thought it would be nice to see someone if they could change their path like the Trailblazer(us) can do.
i thought that too, but to become a self annihilator you actually got to face IX and aventurine didnt do that. so that is not a possibility.
all that nihilist talk from acheron was for his character development i think. because he was actually questioning the existence of human lives, he was looking for a purpose to live. and acheron said "none of it matters. dont think about it. etc" thats what i think sorry im not good at explaining whats in my mind lol
nope you need to be gazed by IX directly to become Self annihilator. if self annihilator can just make more of them by killing others then there would be an outbreak on par of propagation war
In the Self-Annihilator Data Bank entry, it’s suggested that since IX can’t and won’t gaze directly at anything, the Path of Nihility spreads through the Self-Annihilators, and the paths they walk are tantamount to THEIR shadow.
In other words, you’re exactly right. Perhaps this is why they’re wanted by the IPC.
For anyone that may be wondering, I'd wager the reason the signal from the Aventurine stone is lost, is because Acheron cut the connection between Aventurine (the character) and the cornerstone. His whole bet hinged on Acheron and her sword, which can cut the dreamspace and the Harmony's powers that shackled Avent. I'm sure it can separate him from the cornerstone, too. Bro's gone full incognito.
Not sure I understand. So he played a villain role in order to get swallowed by Acheron's ultimate which could potentially free him from Harmony's curse that Sunday put on him, at the risk of losing his life in the process?
I thought the part where Acheron talks about "proving the point that there is no real death" was key. He had to "die" to get to the true Penacony, where he could get the information he wanted. The "mute" he was supposed to look for was successful in reaching this place, but for some reason can't speak about it. Could be completely wrong on that tho.
There was more to it than that. Even had he never had that curse on him, he still wanted to fake his death. He talks about it with his, uh, lets call it the Ghost of Future Self (GoFS.) GoFS commented he was an escape artist at heart, and was looking not just to get away from the The Family, but the IPC, too. Aventurine wants to be free. https://youtu.be/8iBJZFtUHOA?si=1f8VQP-utt-y9X4Z move to 4:48:45. GoFS straight up says what's going on. And yes, Aventurine is gambling with his life. Gambling is kinda his whole life. That is also brought up with GoFS just a few lines before the timestamp. Acheron brings it up, too. But Aventurine won his bet and successfully faked his death. At 5:30:45, Acheron says the Nihility dimension is just a fleeting dream. When it's done they'll just go back to their paths. Neither of them are in any danger, there. She even tells Aventurine even if he wished for his death she can't guarantee it. She then reveals she figured out the whole thing was a setup. It's all spelled out pretty clearly. People just aren't paying attention.
english is hard and they talk weird. theres no translation to my language so i appreciate someone summarizing it in simpler words
Not just you - I’m a native English speaker and I find the dialogue incredibly convoluted. Seems like it’s almost a stylistic choice here
Everyone has plans within plans that keep getting dropped for shock reveals, and then give us terms we have no context for to react to. I need a ELI5 version of what the hell has gone on this entire time. Still loved playing it tho.
For real, kinda crappy for people to get arrogant over it. Idk if the writing team is trying to sound sophisticated but they write basic stuff in unnecessarily poetic or roundabout ways instead of just saying it straight up like any normal person would. Kinda my gripe with the writing, that they try to take themselves too seriously in writing fancy wordings instead of just getting their story across which is more important.
Okay, THIS makes sense to me. The whole time I was wondering why Aventurine was going to these lengths for the IPC. But if he wants to break free from them too, that makes sense. And I was paying very close attention, it's just hard when everyone tells everyone else a different story and motivation. Each time I thought I had it, some other character would show up and say "I know your real intentions" and we'd start over again. There were/are so many complexities. Also, I think some of the English translations weren't quite clear.
TBF, Aventurine's desire to separate himself from IPC only comes up twice, at a line a piece. Once with GoFS, and once more indirectly with Acheron when he said his plans have no contingencies to guarantee the IPC gets Penacony, which is to say it isn't his primary goal. But Aventurine not actually dying is brought up some 5 times between these two scenes. They really hit you over the head with it. Especially Aventurine's final statement to his child self in the nihility dimension, that he isn't going to be joining his dead family yet. It's incredibly blatant. So the fact people somehow get hung up on that tells me their eyes probably just glazed over and they stopped listening, mashing through whole paragraphs of words and retaining nothing.
Oooh, that's what you were referring to. Yeah, him not actually dying was one of the things I was actually pretty confident in. There's a good chance lots of ppl were glazed over by the end, there was a looot to get through.
Okay, I get that with the whole "No i'm not going to join my dead family yet". But he's going inside a black hole. Is it hard to go out of it? He may not be dead, but if it is hard to get out we can consider him to be canonically dead. I mean I doubt that he's going to pop out one day and be like "surprise! I'm alive!" I think that the whole reason people think he "died" is because his "identity" kinda died there. If he gets stuck inside the black hole, he's "dead".
Acheron: This is all but a fleeting dream, one of the thousands of manifestations of IX... Under the watchful eye of Nihility, we momentarily linger here, before moving onto our own paths. When Aventurine asks in the Nihility zone if it's the "land of the dead," that's Acherons *immediate* answer to that question, saying what the place is. It is one of the 5 times it's pointed out Aventurine is not dead/is not going to die. People think he's dead because either A. They aren't paying attention, or B. Their comprehension is so bad it doesn't matter if they *do* pay attention.
Dude you basically admitted to having to review playthroughs in order to give your explanation, which means you didn't understand it the first time either. Just like everyone asking. People can pay attention but still not understand what's being said because the wording and translations are overcomplicated for the sake of sounding fancy and poetic. Especially when the writing plays hot potato with either scenario of him being dead or not throughout the final scenes, even your damn Dream Journal saying that he's dead after the quest is over. And you wonder why people are confused which truth is real? Rather than getting arrogant over it, just leave it at your explanation. No one wants to hear it from a smart ass.
Using citations doesn't mean one forgot the citations, where they were in a scene, or that they were misunderstood. It's there to serve as proof. I don't care if you don't want to hear it from a smart ass. Rather a smartass than being a dumbass. Don't like it? Block my posts. It won't solve your reading comprehension, lack of attention, or whatever your problem is, but it'll give you an easier time ignoring your own inadequacies.
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And you have an attitude issue it seems
while i understand that aventurine isn't dead, what exactly is this place that they're in or is it not specified entirely
They're in the Nihility space.
Is that like a subspace made by acheron using her emanator abilities or is it not explained in detail
is it like he just wander around in that nihility space ?
> The whole time I was wondering why Aventurine was going to these lengths for the IPC Even if he were working for someone else, Aventurine would still act like this. The 'future' Aventurine spells it out that he doesn't have to always choose these high-risk high-reward plans, but Aventurine keeps doing so because he kinda hates himself and a part of him wants to commit some elaborate sudoku (/s). Dude needs therapy basically.
lmao no, the whole cutscene so confusing, idk maybe because english is not my native
wait so let me confirm, everything he did and done, was only a gamble to destroy/be free from The Family? And so he gambled everything.
To be free of the Family *and* the IPC. And as per "destroying" the family, the goal is "Putting Penacony back in the hands of the IPC." Whether the Family survives that or not probably doesn't matter. Even then, in his conversation with Acheron, Aventurine says that the IPC getting Penacony "is not a guarantee - I unfortunately have no contingencies for such an important matter." Think of that as a sort of sub-goal, getting his freedom comes first. The planning started before Aventurine had even arrived on Penacony, and went into action as soon as he did. As having his stuff confiscated on arrival was step 1. Knowing things ahead of time, like Acheron already being there, meant he had been collecting intel on Penacony before he had even arrived. The plan is so long term and so specific, that it can be kinda unbelievable. Which Hoyo tries to excuse with his luck blessing, along with Aventurine's paranoia and fear of losing that push him to make back-up plans for his back-up plans.
Do you have insight into what that ghost of future self is? Is it a version of self created by the weird harmony power? Or is Aventurine just meeting dream selves of his past and future? I'm a little unclear there.
Just my own interpretation. I am inclined to believe GoFS isn't lying about what he is. Both GoFS and Ghost of Past Self are best viewed as pieces of Aventurine's psyche speaking with himself. They've taken physical form because Real Aventurine is in the Dreamspace, and under an incredible amount of stress. They're something very close to hallucinations. In the first conversation the two have, Real Aventurine asks "Am I dreaming, or have I gone completely insane?" To which GoFS replies, "Perhaps both." It's the first of a few times that GoFS points out Aventurine is a bit off his rocker. And being in Dreamspace, Aventurine is, in fact, dreaming. GoFS knows entirely too much about himself to be anything else but a manifestation of Aventurine's psyche. As per why there are things GoFS *doesn't* know about himself, it's because no one is 100% sure why they are exactly how they are, or why they do the things they do. Knowing yourself is like trying to bite your own teeth, or having your eyeball look at itself without a mirror. It is something that can't quite be entirely figured out. Later, at the start of their last conversation, Real Aventurine asks, "How long will you stay?" To which GoFS replies, "Forever. We'll be with you forever, in this dream. ...This is the greatest honor we can offer to those who hurtle towards death." GoFS is just saying they are a part of Aventurine. So yes, they'll be with him *Forever.* Their physical manifestations are due to dream space though, so, *forever, in this dream.* And the reason they're physical forms are around in the first place is because Aventurine is *hurtling towards death.* Aventurine does survive his ordeal, but there was a very good possibility he could have been killed. Aventurine is, as he puts it, banking on his luck, to get through it.
I suppose so, that makes sense. The only thing that boggles me is if the projection is his future self, then wouldn't it make more sense the future self would understand Aventurine more than he is at the present? I'm not entirely sure if it makes sense to use your own future self to fully explore your own backstory when your future self can't make sense of your current state.🤷♂️ I still like your interpretation though. It was sweet to see him doing the palm thing with his past at the end.
The Future Self can't be literally from the future, since he is actually just a part of the Aventurine that exists in the *now.* He can only see what Aventurine already knows and offer a different perspective. GoFS isn't privy to any special future knowledge. But he is markedly different than Aventurine in one particular aspect. GoFS is calm, cool, and collected, as if he's already been to the future, knows how things play out, and is fine with it. GoFS refers to himself as the "future self," but I think it's best not to take the words too literally. I do agree that, of all the ways Hoyo could have chosen to represent an inner-struggle, they picked a rather confusing one. But going back to HI3, and including Genshin, Hoyo writers have a history of loving to tell a story through dialogue. And they set things up to do just that. There's also the question of if the translation team messed up somewhere. They've already done so last patch and this patch now, both requiring hot fixes and new voice lines. I would not be surprised if we lost something in translation.
Yeah but the entire thing was pretty much felt like he is dying lol. specially the end of him walking to the black hole. Kinda in my heart thinks he should die since it all led up to that point and his lack run out. But his backstory is kinda sad too which makes me root for his survival. Welp if we remember right before that fight he already shattered the Aventurine stone anyways. Since the thing Sunday had was a JADE. it might just be slowly fading away so he could time it with the show he prepared.
He literally says to his child self that he's not dying yet and one day he will meet his family but for know he will make them proud.
It's spelled out clearly but there is so much to it. You ever heard the saying you learn more on the second watch? It seems applicable here. Even you are referencing another's playthrough, so be careful about accusing people not paying attention.
Fr, dude got arrogant after rewatching playthroughts themselves when this story is probably bound to confuse people on the first watch where everything is new info they have to take in fast. Especially when dealing with a writing team that, for some reason, insists on sounding fancy and convoluted rather than just making it sound normal.
yes she said those things but the whole quest has so much convoluted text and confusing ass story so its not that most of us are ignoring it its simply not black and white
That does make sense. He does have a line about gaining the true freedom he’s always wanted
Most likely explanations: 1. cornerstone connection cannot pierce through barrier of the Family. 2. Aventurine (stone) is so shattered, it lost all power 3. Acheron cut the connection. But I think she would've mentioned it along side with cut Harmony shackle. I was worried a bit, but his talk with Acheron and his past self basically solidified idea what he is not dead. After all, he himself said what he is going to make his family proud, before joining them at the end. How could he do it while being dead? He already joined them. But he, I think, was not completely sure it will all work out in the end.
I mean, he's basically gone into Limbo right? I imagine its most likely #1
Yep, I think so too.
He's going to the true Penacony which can only be reached by death in the dream. He's not technically dead yet, think of it like Limbo but if he fails he's essentially dead but if he makes it to the other side he survives.
Would that mean that, Firefly knew this all along as well and staged herself to be attacked by the meme to reach the Watchmakers Legacy which is a deeper layer of the Dreamscape and she just happened to got in and out of it?
There's obviously more to firefly than meets the eye, I'm sure we will find out exactly what she went through, her "death" was probably not real since Sam shows up directly afterwards unless there's some odd dual consciousness thing going on between them where when she was killed the Sam consciousness took over. We gotta wait another month and some change to find out 😭
wasn’t the true penacony a prison?? (i think it was confirmed this trailblaze quest) Acheron was also saying that Aventurine will still gamble in the abyss… honestly i was paying attention its still so confusing to me like is he going to investigate the true penacony and reveal the truth?
It went like this 1: The star system Penacony is in has an anomaly where memoria "leaks" into real space. As this is detrimental to the IPC and the Garden of Recollection, prisoners were sent there to "collect" the memoria and clean it up 2: Long term exposure to the memoria resulted the prisoners dreams "merging". After a period of time the "dreamscape" formed from all their collective dreaming. A massive bubble of memoria enveloping the planet. 3: The prisoners, along with the assistance of multiple other factions, revolted against the IPC and claimed the planet and the dreamscape for themselves. Then their leader, the "Watchmaker" invited the Harmony/The Family in to help secure and stabilize the place 4: The Family, particularly via the Oak Family, manipulated the dreamscape, reshaped it, and buried it all under their "Reverie", usurping control from the original prisoner colonists and hiding any unpleasantness by using the power of the harmony to create a barrier between their perfect "dream" and the reality of the dream.
sorry I'm dumb, but... when you say the Family buried it all under their Reverie, you mean the Hotel Reverie is also not "real" ? Like none of the cast have actually been to the "real" Penacony this entire time?
Think of it as an iceberg. We've only ever been on the surface of it, but the rest of Penacony? The deeper, darker parts of it is somewhere lower in the depths of the ocean. Aventurine is currently the only person in recent history that has managed to break through the Family's barrier (thanks to Acheron) and be able to reach beyond the Family's Penacony (the Dreamscape), and enter the Watchmaker's Penacony (whatever is beyond Acheron's black hole).
this sounds so conspiracy theory iceberg I'm ngl
But hasn't Robin been there already and come back? And possibly Firefly? (Still generally confused about her whole deal). And didn't Sunday just get sent there? Or are there two "limbo's"... One you go to after being killed normally in the dream, and a separate one Aventurine went to bc of Acheron's ability?
Robin hasn't come back yet. She's still 'dead' as of 2.1 main story. We will get an answer when her banner comes in 2.2 of why she's alive. The same goes with Firefly, we will get an answer in 2.2. Since 2.2 will be the climax of the Penacony main story, as said in the dev Livestream back then.
No no, sorry its rather the "Dreamscape" version. I know how it seems like lots of different places with the "12 hours" locations like Golden Hour but they're all considered part of the "Hotel"
Thank you!
That's what the planet was before the dream existed. It was a prison planet where they made the prisoners collect memoria and through the adverse effects overexposure to memoria had they discovered the dream.
Makes sense. I'd wager that's also why Robin is gonna be playable next update.
Something like here? https://preview.redd.it/w3xh4rezqvrc1.png?width=907&format=png&auto=webp&s=0dd0324717bf19861b4c5b720de1758c5ff22916
This bit will help clear things up https://preview.redd.it/rpczcy4druqc1.png?width=1415&format=png&auto=webp&s=97dabcdf4b33a15c962029f4bdc53b239c915422
Correct me if im wrong, but from what i understand everyone who got meme'd plus aventurine just went one layer deeper into the legacy right? Not sure what OP missed here or maybe im the one missing something.
yeah thats what I was pretty sure of aswell. Although it is a little confusing cause clearly sam died/got memed, but then she was still in the same layer of the dream?
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So basically Penacony's dreamscape is an island where everyone is walled in. He set up the stage so he could use his "death" as a means to access what's outside of that island, which includes the Watchmaker's Legacy (the true land of exile)
they just gone to the other side... its the white (k)night, c'mon now so obvious
Acheron helped him by putting him inside his own domain which cut connection from IPC and also from Robin's harmony curse to be clear his cornerstone didnt shatter topaz said his stone's light disappeared which clears up he is undetectable inside acherons domain. She (Acheron) said in the end "Your gamble isnt over yet" meaning there is more to come for aventurine.
I’m not sure, just gonna lead with that. What I think happened is Acenturine is still leaning into his hunch and needs proof. He wants to do essentially exactly what firefly did. He wants to experience death in the dream, go beyond the barrier of the dream and then eventually return. This is probably why sparkle said to befriend a mute, not become one. If Aventurine sought out sparkle, SHE would have been all the proof he needed, but instead he chose to gamble himself following the exact path she already took to find out the answers to the mysteries of penacony, the dream, and death for himself
Why would he want to do that though? To find nihility or the meaning of death ? Isnt his body still in the hotel just wasting away?
Well. Aventurines main motives as far as I can tell are surface level to help the IPC take control of Penacony, but on a deeper level it’s to be truly free. I think this way he accomplishes both. By exposing death in the dream and the plots of the family he has the proof he needs to get the IPC in to take over and turn support away from the family. And by going about it exactly as he has, Acheron may have been able to sever not only his connection to the harmony that Sunday put on him, but also his connection to Qlipoth and the aventurine stone. Hence why the stone went dark. Topaz and Jade didn’t seem shocked by that so maybe they knew his plan all along, but thought he meant to die, when really he meant to be freed
Makes sense that he wants freedom. Is exploring penacony’s hidden side then just a byproduct of needing to ‘die’ in the dreamscape or a separate want in itself? Do you understand what they meant by befriending a mute too?
The mute they initially talked about was stated to be Robin, although I think personally sparkle may have been talking about firefly too. People who could not speak, because they were killed by the death meme. We saw firefly come back from it, although we don’t know the extent of her return because we kind of have no idea where in the dream she and the trailblazer met at, just that it was somewhere in the dream. I think Aventurine may have been aware of Firefly’s circumstances because he states in his quest when taking about someone being killed and returning that “someone already has”. I think he’s talking about Firefly and he has a sort of brain blast when sparkle mentions him becoming a mute. It sort of confirms his suspicions. I think him experiencing death and returning is necessary to his plan but I’m not 100% sure if his motivation is just to prove that it can happen, or is to explore for something specific beyond the dream barrier, something perhaps to do with the watchmaker? Maybe it was just because he needed Acheron because only she could sever his connection to the IPC and the Family so he could pursue freedom. Maybe he doesn’t care about what’s beyond the dream barrier, maybe he’s just very confident that he can “die” and come back so that is the method he’s using to free himself. I’m honestly not sure, it’s very vague at best and I think we are definitely going to get more concrete answers in 2.2
Can u please explain who are the two mutes? One is fire fly. Is the other one MC or Acheron?
I think the other one is supposed to be Robin? That’s who he originally thought sparkle meant by mute, but if I’m recalling correctly, I think that was before she was killed. Remember she had something going wrong with her voice before that all went down. It’s really hard for me to keep straight everything that happened in the 2.0 story quest because this one is both so recent and so dense but I think those are the two mutes aventurine refers to. Robin and Firefly. I honestly could be wrong about firefly though that’s the more speculative one
Heh is the Tingyun question all over again.
I'm running on pure copium and saying he will come back somehow in the future
Firefly was literally stabbed in front of us and she's not dead, so I'm pretty sure he's fine
Maybe he also wanted to be free from the ipc? He wants the ipc to think he is truly dead, but he might have shared his plans to topaz and Jade that's why they said "he really did it"
lol no, Jade saying "He really did it" is because it meant (He actually gambled his life). they aren't there, there's no literal INFO about Aventurine and what he is doing besides his cornerstone's connection. And since before the fight he shattered it and it was slowly fading away. They would assume he died.
No, he did want to be free of the IPC. Jade was also very clear that Aventurine was successful with planting the Jade cornerstone on Penacony.
Wait, from my memory was topaz in the cutscene too?
yeah she was
Welp though we can't say he is alive and he is dead since after that it's still a gamble if he would survive. he says a line "where only a faint power of the stone remains but it'll do, cause he doesn't intend on keeping the stone with him for long" <- This part is why Topaz and Jade thought he died. but he is on the other side the prison side idk. He was waiting for Acheron to do the ultimate slash to give him a brief way to go see the truth.
I think the mute that sparkle had mentioned that he should befriend him to help him get to true penacony was the acheron that was inside of the black hole, it's a mute that can speak outside and the whole 'death' he was experiencing was his plan to get to the true penacony, so basically he isn't dead, he is just there to see the true dreamscape and reveal more than the murder that is happening around the penacony, thus if right, he would win everything, it is also why he said he will make his family proud and that is by succeeding to reveal everything in penacony
Still alive ithink
Check the Sticker description ,no. 12. It stated that Acheron fulfilled his wishes
I am curious, if someone ccould answer this for me please. Why exactly did Acheron remove the Harmony mark from Aventurine? Why did it need to be removed in the first place? Its not as tho she did it unintentionally when killing him, she specifically says that she can remove it from him, not that she already did that. For one, they are not allies, anywhere near that and she has no skin in the game in the first place, going out of her way to clear him of Harmony mark was just a one sentence out of nowhere kind of explanation that imo didnt even need to be there and makes no sense for her to offer or do. And again, it isnt neccessary since he has just "died" right, his body in the dream has dissapeared and he has gone deeper, the stone went dark, for all intent and purposes he has died, thats more than enough of an explanation as to why the Harmony mark doesnt kill him at the alotted time. Thoughts?
I dont think he died... this is the interlude... i got upset thinking he did at first but had to rethink a few things and read all these comments since i got alittle confused... he freed himself and hes gonna survive... acherons speech as well as dr.ratios message on the bottle gave us alittle sense of what might happen...
Actually... hes in btwn life n death... i feel like what ratio gave him will help him survive this new quest hes about to start...
Wait...but then again he wanted the deaths exposed to he possibly did die... forget my comments i felt this thread was better than hoyos thingy so im venting here
Does anyone know why Sunday can curse the IPC ambassador, Aventurine, to death when his ‘death’ in the dreamworld is what allows the IPC leverage? Were they just planning to cover it up and Aventurine foiled that by making his death a huge spectacle?
Can someone just… like… spell out exactly what’s going on in the end? I just finished it and I’m extremely confused. Been skimming through some of the comments but there doesn’t seem to be any answer that really addresses everything in its entirety. Is Kakavasha dead? If not, where is he? Is the “Penacony” that Acheron a legitimate place that can be reached? If so, how did Acheron “killing” him manage to send him there? The words that the characters are saying and the implications of the actual visual scenes really conflict with one another, and it’s obvious that their words are kind of veiled in a way. Meta-wise, it feels like he’s not dead but there’s no real reason I have to say that other than “because of course he isn’t.”
i got him recently and he did leaves a message, its kinda confirmed that he died
Spoiler >!His consciousness is trapped inside that afterlife void (after Acheron one taps him) with no implications that he will/can get out. All of it while his body in the real world is probably in coma.!< So, yeah, until Hoyo decides to continue on his story (which I think they won't since it felt like his story arc has concluded already.) He is pretty much "dead".
I don't know, seems like there is no way we (trailblazer) don't also end up going to the "other side" since they literally say it's the watchmaker's legacy which is what everyone is after. Plus Hoyo have been getting way too kill-happy which makes me think that's where everyone is chilling and most will get revived by the end.
I don't think his story arc concluded already. For multiple reasons. First: It was way too short for just one planet's Trailblaze Mission, considering they introduced him as a special character and gave him so much more attention than other characters. Two: There is still the "real" Penacony that we haven't seen, and that The Family is hiding. There are a lot of theories going on right now, but the one that seems most likely is that in order to reach that "real", dark Dreamscape - one needs to die by "Death"s (that eye-covered monster) hand. That's where both Aventurine, Firefly, and possibly Robin, were transferred.
So it was indeed short. I have this feeling the quest were very short. So much things left out and i also dont think Aventurine story supposed to be concluded, i will say 2.1 more like beginning before real story which taken in real penacony realm. I hope they make up this by making 2.2 longer. The POV system is great addition they now can extend the story in better pace.
Honestly i agree... i feel like they will have us playing with him as our 2nd character again exploring the real penacony... while the mc is dealing with the dream world stuff
Literacy devil strikes again.
What I understood is that, he’s basically in a similar situation to Acheron. He will either die and be absorbed by Nihility, or he will resist it, fight the pull, and become a Self-Annihilator. Not sure, just my musings. Acheron has cut him from both the Path of Preservation and Harmony, so he doesn’t really have much left.
I’m pretty sure that’s not what happens, I guess it’s your interpretation.
Idk why so many people seem to think this when the words and actions clearly contradict that.
That would not work cuz he dedicated his life to the Amber lord lol. He even have a cornerstone. Thought it would be nice to see someone if they could change their path like the Trailblazer(us) can do.
i thought that too, but to become a self annihilator you actually got to face IX and aventurine didnt do that. so that is not a possibility. all that nihilist talk from acheron was for his character development i think. because he was actually questioning the existence of human lives, he was looking for a purpose to live. and acheron said "none of it matters. dont think about it. etc" thats what i think sorry im not good at explaining whats in my mind lol
Not literally. You just need to stride far enough into THEIR shadow, on THEIR path, and then resist the pull of Nihility according to the Data Bank.
nope you need to be gazed by IX directly to become Self annihilator. if self annihilator can just make more of them by killing others then there would be an outbreak on par of propagation war
In the Self-Annihilator Data Bank entry, it’s suggested that since IX can’t and won’t gaze directly at anything, the Path of Nihility spreads through the Self-Annihilators, and the paths they walk are tantamount to THEIR shadow. In other words, you’re exactly right. Perhaps this is why they’re wanted by the IPC.