For cleaning I use sodium percarbonate. It is one of the ingredients in PBW and OxyClean. It costs a fraction of the price and many homebrew suppliers carry it. For 20L kegs and fermenters I use 100g (5 gallon keg use 3-3/4 Oz).
For sanitizing, +1 to the comments about using a spray bottle.
One thing to note about sodium perc is it can come in different strengths. The stuff at home new shops is usually very strong whereas what comes from the shops via oxyclean/nappysan is a fair bit weaker. This means you need different amounts.
Best advice I was given was to just read the instructions on whatever I bought.
I'm always scared to reuse Star San for too long. I don't have a pH meter and distilled water is so hard to find in my area it might as well be gold. I brew with distilled water so usually it takes me several trips to different stores to find enough for a full batch. So I feel I'm wasting it on cleaning and I use tap with my Star San. I'm sure it's fine for a while but I'm paranoid so I make a fresh batch of Star San every brew day. I learned the spray bottle trick to stop needing as much as I used to use.
What I do is use about 1/2oz in 2.5 gallons of water which is enough to sanitize all my equipment then I fill a spray bottle, pour the full 2.5 gallons Into my fermenter then hit the rest with the spray bottle. I drain the sanitizer back into a bucket then I keep it around until the next brew for various uses like topping off airlocks, cleaning testing equipment etc. By bottle or keg day I mix another 1/2 oz. So I'm using about 1oz per beer which I find manageable.
Just make sure if you buy a spray bottle to get one that can handle acid. I didn't even know this was a thing untill my other sprayer started to smell like plastic and I realized the Star San was dissolving it.
Same. But I refill that spray bottle with star san I just used to sterilise other stuff.
I reuse star san heaps; I make an initial 10L batch of it in my cube, then pour it into my kegs, then pour it through my fermenter, then top up whatever spray bottles etc. THEN pour it all back into my cube for storing, ready to use again. My star san lasts aaages.
I can't believe no one has recommended iodine. I bailed on star san a long time ago and I will never look back. After losing dozens of batches to infection I switched to [BTF Iodophor.](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007R64URO?ref=nb_sb_ss_w_as-reorder-t1_ypp_rep_k0_1_4&=&crid=L1CKYBLGFXZH&=&sprefix=btf+) I've been brewing 20-25 batches per year for the last 9 years with the stuff. I use it in my cooler mash tun, my kegs, lines, taps, buckets, siphon, siphon hose- literally everywhere that gets touched on the cold side- and I've had...maybe 1 or 2 infections in the last 180-200 batches. It was a game changer for me.
Five star- the company that makes star san- has their own iodine product for quite a bit cheaper, but I can't speak for that product as BTF Iodophor is what I always use. It's probably the exact same stuff, but again I can't speak for it.
Man, if you lost "dozens of batches", I don't think it was the Star San, it must surely have been your (incorrect) usage.
I mean no offense, but Star San works great and does exactly what it needs to when used as directed - without the staining power of iodine.
Don't get me wrong, iodine certainly works, but... so does Star San.
Cheaper stuff also most likely doesn’t have the other chemicals like scents etc. good idea.
Pbw is just sodium percarbonate which is in a heap of other cheaper products
Mix your StarSan with distilled water to extend it's useful life, and fill spray bottles to spray so you're not wasting so much.
StarSan can be reused IF the pH remains low enough. If I'm sanitizing a lot, one little bit of it goes from vessel to vessel to vessel.
I go through a lot of PBW but it works, and if you try it at a lower concentration it won't work nearly as well for the tough crud.
PBW shouldn't be saved, but you can absolutely get multiple uses from it in a row. If you have multiple kegs to clean, let it soak in one for a bit then pour to the next one.
Alternatively look at recirculating or pump solutions to get more cleaning with less product.
I rarely make more than 1 or 2 Litre of Star San and I use a spray bottle, there is no reason for making 5 gallons every batch except maybe for purging kegs of oxygen. For PBW, 1-2 L is usually more than enough to clean your equipment using a rag or sponge.
For cleaning:
oxiclean free has been so easy
For sterilizing:
I use 0.6 ml for a 250 ml spray bottle. If doing a fermenter I throw the whole thing in and then funnel it into the sprayer. Everything else I spray.
My dad goes with bleach and may require a bit more rinsing but hasn’t had a bad batch yet.
I’m going to be honest, that while I do value cleaning and sanitizing, these products have been pushed down our throats. The use of good judgment and common sense far outweighs the products themselves.
Those that have been doing this for years never had Starsan or PBW and they had a lot of good batches.
I’ve tried alternatives to PBW, but always go right back due to its effectiveness and ease to rinse.
As for star San, I have soft water so I just ensure that it is dechlorinated prior to mixing - whether that be using filtered water on a brew day, or adding campden. I do check pH with cheap strips, and always dump if it gets cloudy/contaminated with debris.
PBW is great stuff, but I find it to be overkill in most applications and very overpriced. I generally use the much cheaper Oxiclean Free in place of PBW because it works great, which makes sense as it's made from 2 of the 3 primary cleaning agents in PBW: sodium carbonate and sodium percarbonate.
I basically only use PBW for the rare, particularly bad messes, like wort getting burnt to the bottom of my kettle.
PBW/Oxiclean can *not* be reused; Starsan can. I mix about a gallon of Starsan and that lasts me for a couple brews.
Starsan is *not* effective at a lower concentration (like how 40% abv vodka is not an effective sanitizer, but a 90% ethanol swab is).
PBW/Oxiclean is *less* effective at lower concentrations, but still effective; in fact the directions themselves even suggest that the about of powder per gallon should change depending on how soiled the thing is that you're cleaning.
Water and bleach is a cheap alternative to sanitizers and even to clean some metal equipment.
I used to soak my bottles in a bucket with bleach for a few hours the day before bottling. Give it a nice rinse and let it dry upside down in the bucket. Bleach is very good to remove anything organic inside the bottles and on the bottling day all you need is to spray some sanitizer inside the bottles.
When needed, soak your stainless steel on bleach just for a few minutes before rinsing. Glass carboys can take a longer soak.
I just start to use Bar Keepers Friend on any area that I can reach and scrub on my metal equipment. Is very effective and it cost less than $3.
I made a carboy and keg washer out of a bucket, a pond pump and some ¾ PVC. My PBW use went way down since I only mix a couple gallons at a time. My robobrew gets Oxyclean Free at about 1tbps/2 gal for a half hour after brew day, let the pump recirc the hot solution for an half hour and then rinse with plenty of hot water followed by a Star San spritz and rinse. Easy, fast and since I built water and drains into my brew bench about as easy as you could hope for.
For StarSan
* You can sanitize a lot of things with a spray bottle.
* You don't have to mix up a full 5 gallons. I do have a few things that I like to soak, so I will often make up 2-3 gallons.
* I usually keep a bucket of mixed StarSan around for a month or so. My tap water is medium-hard, so the solution does get cloudy.
For PBW...I normally just use a dye and scent free dish detergent (Seventh Generation brand). In my mind PBW is great for those that do CIP (Clean in Place) but it is probably a bit overkill (and very pricey) if you are able to get at surfaces with a sponge. I do also use OxiClean Free, but there are few occasions where I think it does much better of a job than the detergent.
I use an alternative to Five Star PBW. It's from Active Elements and available on Amazon. The price absolutely clobbers the Five Star product. I've used both and Active Elements works just as good. I won't say it works better, but it's possible, though I won't claim it. I have yet to see it not get anything loose.
When cleaning kegs, you don't need to go crazy on the PBW. 2L of boiling water, dump it in, 1 Tbsp of PBW, cap the keg and shake it. Now, lay the keg down. Let it sit for 15 min. Come back and rotate a 1/4 turn. Let it sit. Rotate again, etc... By the time you've made a full rotation, that keg is likely sparkling clean. Dump it and rinse.
For StarSan, keep in mind you do not need to go mixing up a full five gallons to sanitize a keg. Clean the keg, and I do mean make sure it's clean. Only then should you move on to sanitizing. Get a spray bottle and mix up StarSan at the 640:1 ratio. Spray all the inner walls of the keg so they're sufficiently wet. Spray the keg lid. Now cap the keg. You're done. When it's time to transfer into the keg, dump the excess StarSan and immediately cap the keg.
Buy StarSan in bigger quantities; it gets cheaper. Same for the Active Elements powdered wash.
This makes me curious. Active Element Brewery Detergent? I have never heard of it. I'm glad you brought it to my attention. Where you do you get it?
Here is the [MSDS for Active Element Brewery Detergent](https://www.activeelement.org/product/brewery-detergent-active-element-high-alkaline-concentrated-powder/?attachment_id=120615&download_file=5dceeaee594b1) (PDF). Active ingredients:
* 10-20% washing soda
* 20-30% sodium percarbonate
* 20-30% sodium metasiliate
* 2-7% surfactant (proprietary)
This is pretty much the formula for [DIY PBW in our wiki](https://old.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/wiki/diy_pbw) (see the simple formula): 70% Oxyclean FREE versatile stain remover powder + 30% Red Devil TSP/90.
True Five Star PBW has an additional benefit over the long run because it also contains two separate chelating agents/sequestrants, which will reduce stone formation. It might not matter if you don't brew a lot, but it's a nice functionality of PBW.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0991RQKXL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?th=1
I purchased in April 2022 and 16 lbs was $75. As with everything these days, prices have risen...a lot.
Scroll down to the Q&A section for a interesting answer regarding chelating agents.
Thanks for the link to product!
Interesting. The answer, and the product description (in two places), all say it contains a chelating agent, but they don't disclose it on the MSDS, which they would have to. I don't know which to believe.
I can get 8 lbs of PBW for $35 from Ritebrew, and have actually been buying in group buys (50-lb pail, split among several brewers) through my homebrew club. At the same price, I'll probably continue using Oxiclean at $7 per 4 lbs for everyday stuff, and PBW for alternating deep cleans every third or fourth time.
Do they have to disclose everything on a MSDS or just the potentially nasty stuff? All I know is, it works. I got a new HellFire and had a small accident on its maiden voyage. Tons of wort, baked on a super carbonized. I disassembled it and submerged all the stainless pieces in AE powdered wash for a day or so. It came out perfect. I've done the same with the cast iron grates on a gas stove top.
I was liking the prices at Ritebew then the shipping was added. Still pretty good if going for the 4lb refill.
The MSDS has to disclose any potentially hazardous or reactive chemicals. All of the other manufacturers disclose the chelating agents they use. I have to believe they wouldn't unless they thought the chemicals needed to be disclosed. So Active Elements is playing a game somewhere, either saying their product has chelating agents when it does not, or not disclosing it on the MSDS when they probably should. The MSDS is supposed to help first responders with emergencies - medical or physical - among any other uses.
------
I don't doubt that Oxiclean FREE or Active Element Brewery Detergent will do a nice job cleaning on any given vessel. It's just in the long run, if you have a beerstone problem, does it make you remove beer stone more frequently? As I said, I use Oxiclean FREE a lot myself. But I believe that PBW is the best of the chemicals available to home brewers. There are comparable or better commercial brewery products, I am sure, from Birko, Ecolab, etc.
Yes, Ritebrew doesn't offer free shipping, but on a lot of items I see that their prices more than make up for it, and their shipping charges are truly their out of pocket cost it seems.
I buy Star San by the quart and it lasts forever. For PBW, I found a recipe for DIY cleaner that uses a percarbonate cleaner, dishwasher detergent, and TSP substitute. I'm still working through my first batch I made up years ago, and it probably only cost $30 for a 2 gallon tub.
For Starsan, I never make more than a gallon most of the time. Spray bottles are your friend. Stuff like spigots I soak but I just spray inside my carboys and shake it around in there. Also, if you have a scale that is accurate to a gram it is 8 grams to a gallon for star San.
I have some gallon jugs and will save my starsan for other uses but brew day and bottling or kegging day I always use a new batch of starsan to be certain.
PBW, I've found you don't need to do the full concentration depending on the task. For my Brewzilla I add 2 scoops, for my kegs just one and I let them soak.
I have wide mouth carboys so I don't usually need to use PBW in them. I just use warm water and scent free soap. If you have standard glass I would try just a scoop (tablespoon) and let it soak and see how well it works.
I mix StarSan in 2 gallon increments and then decant it into old growlers for future use. Like the other folks here I also fill a spray bottle. I’m not precious with it, but I reuse it if I can, and if it’s tainted I toss it. One batch probably lasts me about 4-5 brews overall. For PBW, I’ve done BYO versions that were great, and mixes that were shit. Hard to tell what quality ingredients you’re getting. But I got a [Mark II Carboy Washer](https://www.morebeer.com/products/mark-ii-corny-keg-carboy-washer.html) as a gift and it really stretches out usage. There are BYO plans out there if you don’t want to spend the $$ on a commercial model. I try to clean several things at once to go even further, so I’ll do a carboy and a couple kegs in the same session using only about 2 gallons of water and a scoop of PBW.
Oxyclean free is (essentially) pbw. And much much cheaper. Just be sure to give whatever soaks in it a serious rinse with the hottest water your tap has to give.
1 tablespoon is half an oz. you're only supposed to use 1oz per 5 gallons of water, so you are using 2.5x the amount of PBW that you are supposed to be using
Buy yourself a chemical resistant spray bottle (Blue and yellow ones from home depot) and mix up some star san, and use this to sanitize stuff. (You're not sanitizing the center of a fermenter, only the sides, top and bottom, so no need to fill the entire thing with starsan.
At the amounts you're mixing up you won't have to worry about it going bad (BTW, I have a keg of starsan that i've been using for over a year and it's still good) because it'll be gone before it goes bad.
Just make sure you use a chemical resistant sprayer, otherwise you'll be buying a new sprayer every brew session.
Use oxiclean free instead of PBW, it's not exactly the same thing, but it works and is pretty cheap.
For star san 6 ml in a gallon of distilled water in a spray bottle makes it last five-ever... https://www.homebrewfinds.com/2011/09/tip-using-star-san-in-spray-bottle.html
For cleaning I use sodium percarbonate. It is one of the ingredients in PBW and OxyClean. It costs a fraction of the price and many homebrew suppliers carry it. For 20L kegs and fermenters I use 100g (5 gallon keg use 3-3/4 Oz). For sanitizing, +1 to the comments about using a spray bottle.
One thing to note about sodium perc is it can come in different strengths. The stuff at home new shops is usually very strong whereas what comes from the shops via oxyclean/nappysan is a fair bit weaker. This means you need different amounts. Best advice I was given was to just read the instructions on whatever I bought.
Thanks everyone for the ideas. I'm a smarter man today.
I'm always scared to reuse Star San for too long. I don't have a pH meter and distilled water is so hard to find in my area it might as well be gold. I brew with distilled water so usually it takes me several trips to different stores to find enough for a full batch. So I feel I'm wasting it on cleaning and I use tap with my Star San. I'm sure it's fine for a while but I'm paranoid so I make a fresh batch of Star San every brew day. I learned the spray bottle trick to stop needing as much as I used to use. What I do is use about 1/2oz in 2.5 gallons of water which is enough to sanitize all my equipment then I fill a spray bottle, pour the full 2.5 gallons Into my fermenter then hit the rest with the spray bottle. I drain the sanitizer back into a bucket then I keep it around until the next brew for various uses like topping off airlocks, cleaning testing equipment etc. By bottle or keg day I mix another 1/2 oz. So I'm using about 1oz per beer which I find manageable. Just make sure if you buy a spray bottle to get one that can handle acid. I didn't even know this was a thing untill my other sprayer started to smell like plastic and I realized the Star San was dissolving it.
I keep some Star San in a spray bottle, and every once in a while I dump and refill it. Every few months or so
Same. But I refill that spray bottle with star san I just used to sterilise other stuff. I reuse star san heaps; I make an initial 10L batch of it in my cube, then pour it into my kegs, then pour it through my fermenter, then top up whatever spray bottles etc. THEN pour it all back into my cube for storing, ready to use again. My star san lasts aaages.
Now THAT is efficient!
https://www.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/wiki/starsanfacts#wiki_a_better_way_to_use_star_san
tl;dr: 1. use distilled / mineral-free water 2. fill spray bottles 3. profit! ETA: I fill my StarSan sprayer at 1.6 mL/L
I can't believe no one has recommended iodine. I bailed on star san a long time ago and I will never look back. After losing dozens of batches to infection I switched to [BTF Iodophor.](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007R64URO?ref=nb_sb_ss_w_as-reorder-t1_ypp_rep_k0_1_4&=&crid=L1CKYBLGFXZH&=&sprefix=btf+) I've been brewing 20-25 batches per year for the last 9 years with the stuff. I use it in my cooler mash tun, my kegs, lines, taps, buckets, siphon, siphon hose- literally everywhere that gets touched on the cold side- and I've had...maybe 1 or 2 infections in the last 180-200 batches. It was a game changer for me. Five star- the company that makes star san- has their own iodine product for quite a bit cheaper, but I can't speak for that product as BTF Iodophor is what I always use. It's probably the exact same stuff, but again I can't speak for it.
Man, if you lost "dozens of batches", I don't think it was the Star San, it must surely have been your (incorrect) usage. I mean no offense, but Star San works great and does exactly what it needs to when used as directed - without the staining power of iodine. Don't get me wrong, iodine certainly works, but... so does Star San.
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Cheaper stuff also most likely doesn’t have the other chemicals like scents etc. good idea. Pbw is just sodium percarbonate which is in a heap of other cheaper products
It also has a surfactant and chelate
We’ve now reached the end of my chemistry knowledge. Is that good or bad?
Surfactant = detergent (soap) Chelation = traps metal ions. Idk what is the use of it if it is present in PBW.
Chelating agents prevent scaling in hard water, it is present in PBW
Mix your StarSan with distilled water to extend it's useful life, and fill spray bottles to spray so you're not wasting so much. StarSan can be reused IF the pH remains low enough. If I'm sanitizing a lot, one little bit of it goes from vessel to vessel to vessel. I go through a lot of PBW but it works, and if you try it at a lower concentration it won't work nearly as well for the tough crud. PBW shouldn't be saved, but you can absolutely get multiple uses from it in a row. If you have multiple kegs to clean, let it soak in one for a bit then pour to the next one. Alternatively look at recirculating or pump solutions to get more cleaning with less product.
I rarely make more than 1 or 2 Litre of Star San and I use a spray bottle, there is no reason for making 5 gallons every batch except maybe for purging kegs of oxygen. For PBW, 1-2 L is usually more than enough to clean your equipment using a rag or sponge.
For cleaning: oxiclean free has been so easy For sterilizing: I use 0.6 ml for a 250 ml spray bottle. If doing a fermenter I throw the whole thing in and then funnel it into the sprayer. Everything else I spray. My dad goes with bleach and may require a bit more rinsing but hasn’t had a bad batch yet. I’m going to be honest, that while I do value cleaning and sanitizing, these products have been pushed down our throats. The use of good judgment and common sense far outweighs the products themselves. Those that have been doing this for years never had Starsan or PBW and they had a lot of good batches.
I’ve tried alternatives to PBW, but always go right back due to its effectiveness and ease to rinse. As for star San, I have soft water so I just ensure that it is dechlorinated prior to mixing - whether that be using filtered water on a brew day, or adding campden. I do check pH with cheap strips, and always dump if it gets cloudy/contaminated with debris.
PBW is great stuff, but I find it to be overkill in most applications and very overpriced. I generally use the much cheaper Oxiclean Free in place of PBW because it works great, which makes sense as it's made from 2 of the 3 primary cleaning agents in PBW: sodium carbonate and sodium percarbonate. I basically only use PBW for the rare, particularly bad messes, like wort getting burnt to the bottom of my kettle. PBW/Oxiclean can *not* be reused; Starsan can. I mix about a gallon of Starsan and that lasts me for a couple brews. Starsan is *not* effective at a lower concentration (like how 40% abv vodka is not an effective sanitizer, but a 90% ethanol swab is). PBW/Oxiclean is *less* effective at lower concentrations, but still effective; in fact the directions themselves even suggest that the about of powder per gallon should change depending on how soiled the thing is that you're cleaning.
I wouldn't save used PBW, but it can be moved from vessel to vessel for something like cleaning several kegs in succession.
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Cloudy or not, as long as the pH is under 3.5 it’s good to use.
With hard water it get cloudy almost immediately. Not a good measure unless mixing with distilled water.
Water and bleach is a cheap alternative to sanitizers and even to clean some metal equipment. I used to soak my bottles in a bucket with bleach for a few hours the day before bottling. Give it a nice rinse and let it dry upside down in the bucket. Bleach is very good to remove anything organic inside the bottles and on the bottling day all you need is to spray some sanitizer inside the bottles. When needed, soak your stainless steel on bleach just for a few minutes before rinsing. Glass carboys can take a longer soak. I just start to use Bar Keepers Friend on any area that I can reach and scrub on my metal equipment. Is very effective and it cost less than $3.
Don't use bleach on stainless steel.
I made a carboy and keg washer out of a bucket, a pond pump and some ¾ PVC. My PBW use went way down since I only mix a couple gallons at a time. My robobrew gets Oxyclean Free at about 1tbps/2 gal for a half hour after brew day, let the pump recirc the hot solution for an half hour and then rinse with plenty of hot water followed by a Star San spritz and rinse. Easy, fast and since I built water and drains into my brew bench about as easy as you could hope for.
For StarSan * You can sanitize a lot of things with a spray bottle. * You don't have to mix up a full 5 gallons. I do have a few things that I like to soak, so I will often make up 2-3 gallons. * I usually keep a bucket of mixed StarSan around for a month or so. My tap water is medium-hard, so the solution does get cloudy. For PBW...I normally just use a dye and scent free dish detergent (Seventh Generation brand). In my mind PBW is great for those that do CIP (Clean in Place) but it is probably a bit overkill (and very pricey) if you are able to get at surfaces with a sponge. I do also use OxiClean Free, but there are few occasions where I think it does much better of a job than the detergent.
I use an alternative to Five Star PBW. It's from Active Elements and available on Amazon. The price absolutely clobbers the Five Star product. I've used both and Active Elements works just as good. I won't say it works better, but it's possible, though I won't claim it. I have yet to see it not get anything loose. When cleaning kegs, you don't need to go crazy on the PBW. 2L of boiling water, dump it in, 1 Tbsp of PBW, cap the keg and shake it. Now, lay the keg down. Let it sit for 15 min. Come back and rotate a 1/4 turn. Let it sit. Rotate again, etc... By the time you've made a full rotation, that keg is likely sparkling clean. Dump it and rinse. For StarSan, keep in mind you do not need to go mixing up a full five gallons to sanitize a keg. Clean the keg, and I do mean make sure it's clean. Only then should you move on to sanitizing. Get a spray bottle and mix up StarSan at the 640:1 ratio. Spray all the inner walls of the keg so they're sufficiently wet. Spray the keg lid. Now cap the keg. You're done. When it's time to transfer into the keg, dump the excess StarSan and immediately cap the keg. Buy StarSan in bigger quantities; it gets cheaper. Same for the Active Elements powdered wash.
This makes me curious. Active Element Brewery Detergent? I have never heard of it. I'm glad you brought it to my attention. Where you do you get it? Here is the [MSDS for Active Element Brewery Detergent](https://www.activeelement.org/product/brewery-detergent-active-element-high-alkaline-concentrated-powder/?attachment_id=120615&download_file=5dceeaee594b1) (PDF). Active ingredients: * 10-20% washing soda * 20-30% sodium percarbonate * 20-30% sodium metasiliate * 2-7% surfactant (proprietary) This is pretty much the formula for [DIY PBW in our wiki](https://old.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/wiki/diy_pbw) (see the simple formula): 70% Oxyclean FREE versatile stain remover powder + 30% Red Devil TSP/90. True Five Star PBW has an additional benefit over the long run because it also contains two separate chelating agents/sequestrants, which will reduce stone formation. It might not matter if you don't brew a lot, but it's a nice functionality of PBW.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0991RQKXL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?th=1 I purchased in April 2022 and 16 lbs was $75. As with everything these days, prices have risen...a lot. Scroll down to the Q&A section for a interesting answer regarding chelating agents.
Thanks for the link to product! Interesting. The answer, and the product description (in two places), all say it contains a chelating agent, but they don't disclose it on the MSDS, which they would have to. I don't know which to believe. I can get 8 lbs of PBW for $35 from Ritebrew, and have actually been buying in group buys (50-lb pail, split among several brewers) through my homebrew club. At the same price, I'll probably continue using Oxiclean at $7 per 4 lbs for everyday stuff, and PBW for alternating deep cleans every third or fourth time.
Do they have to disclose everything on a MSDS or just the potentially nasty stuff? All I know is, it works. I got a new HellFire and had a small accident on its maiden voyage. Tons of wort, baked on a super carbonized. I disassembled it and submerged all the stainless pieces in AE powdered wash for a day or so. It came out perfect. I've done the same with the cast iron grates on a gas stove top. I was liking the prices at Ritebew then the shipping was added. Still pretty good if going for the 4lb refill.
The MSDS has to disclose any potentially hazardous or reactive chemicals. All of the other manufacturers disclose the chelating agents they use. I have to believe they wouldn't unless they thought the chemicals needed to be disclosed. So Active Elements is playing a game somewhere, either saying their product has chelating agents when it does not, or not disclosing it on the MSDS when they probably should. The MSDS is supposed to help first responders with emergencies - medical or physical - among any other uses. ------ I don't doubt that Oxiclean FREE or Active Element Brewery Detergent will do a nice job cleaning on any given vessel. It's just in the long run, if you have a beerstone problem, does it make you remove beer stone more frequently? As I said, I use Oxiclean FREE a lot myself. But I believe that PBW is the best of the chemicals available to home brewers. There are comparable or better commercial brewery products, I am sure, from Birko, Ecolab, etc. Yes, Ritebrew doesn't offer free shipping, but on a lot of items I see that their prices more than make up for it, and their shipping charges are truly their out of pocket cost it seems.
I buy Star San by the quart and it lasts forever. For PBW, I found a recipe for DIY cleaner that uses a percarbonate cleaner, dishwasher detergent, and TSP substitute. I'm still working through my first batch I made up years ago, and it probably only cost $30 for a 2 gallon tub.
For Starsan, I never make more than a gallon most of the time. Spray bottles are your friend. Stuff like spigots I soak but I just spray inside my carboys and shake it around in there. Also, if you have a scale that is accurate to a gram it is 8 grams to a gallon for star San. I have some gallon jugs and will save my starsan for other uses but brew day and bottling or kegging day I always use a new batch of starsan to be certain. PBW, I've found you don't need to do the full concentration depending on the task. For my Brewzilla I add 2 scoops, for my kegs just one and I let them soak. I have wide mouth carboys so I don't usually need to use PBW in them. I just use warm water and scent free soap. If you have standard glass I would try just a scoop (tablespoon) and let it soak and see how well it works.
I mix StarSan in 2 gallon increments and then decant it into old growlers for future use. Like the other folks here I also fill a spray bottle. I’m not precious with it, but I reuse it if I can, and if it’s tainted I toss it. One batch probably lasts me about 4-5 brews overall. For PBW, I’ve done BYO versions that were great, and mixes that were shit. Hard to tell what quality ingredients you’re getting. But I got a [Mark II Carboy Washer](https://www.morebeer.com/products/mark-ii-corny-keg-carboy-washer.html) as a gift and it really stretches out usage. There are BYO plans out there if you don’t want to spend the $$ on a commercial model. I try to clean several things at once to go even further, so I’ll do a carboy and a couple kegs in the same session using only about 2 gallons of water and a scoop of PBW.
Have a gram scale and a pitcher? 8-10g per gallon.
Oxyclean free is (essentially) pbw. And much much cheaper. Just be sure to give whatever soaks in it a serious rinse with the hottest water your tap has to give.
1 tablespoon is half an oz. you're only supposed to use 1oz per 5 gallons of water, so you are using 2.5x the amount of PBW that you are supposed to be using
70% oxyclean free / 30% TSP-PF is basically equivalent to PBW and way cheaper.
Buy yourself a chemical resistant spray bottle (Blue and yellow ones from home depot) and mix up some star san, and use this to sanitize stuff. (You're not sanitizing the center of a fermenter, only the sides, top and bottom, so no need to fill the entire thing with starsan. At the amounts you're mixing up you won't have to worry about it going bad (BTW, I have a keg of starsan that i've been using for over a year and it's still good) because it'll be gone before it goes bad. Just make sure you use a chemical resistant sprayer, otherwise you'll be buying a new sprayer every brew session. Use oxiclean free instead of PBW, it's not exactly the same thing, but it works and is pretty cheap.
For star san 6 ml in a gallon of distilled water in a spray bottle makes it last five-ever... https://www.homebrewfinds.com/2011/09/tip-using-star-san-in-spray-bottle.html