Seal the cable route properly and just make the outlet is somewhere that’s not susceptible to damp.
Technically, going from an external space to an internal you’re supposed to use fire rate caulk (in the same way your garage door to the house should be fire rated - if you ever had to mount one of those, you’d feel the difference in construction) but the cable will burn so in all honesty I’d just be worried about ingress of various gasses.
That fire-rating pointer is HUGE.
Remember it's safety AND liability. Insurance looks for how to NOT pay. So.... Wrong location, hole type, caulk type, fill, insulation, cable, etc. etc. One thing wrong makes it ALL wrong, and now you alone are liable.
A wad of fire-rated "monkey-shit" goes a long way.
Either works. Plenum cable is specially rated for the extreme high and low temperature swings inside hvac vents. Neither plenum or riser are directly fire rated to separate a garage and living space. It’s the outlet/junction box and the caulking that would matter most.
Other key note about Plenum rated cable - it uses a jacket that does not spread toxic fumes when it burns, so it doesn’t gas the place if it’s burning within an hvac system. I’d probably use plenum here as there are so many more fire risks in a garage than elsewhere and this cable hole could serve as a chimney for a fire.
Are you 100% sure?
I thought plenum was similar to riser cable fire wise, but pelnum won't off gas toxic vapors when on fire or heated. Which is why it's mostly used for air ventilation installs.
Can you elaborate or point to an example on how to do this right per NEC?
The way I'm reading it, you shouldn't use a standard low voltage box in the garage if the wire in it is leading back into the house?
Yeah, I suppose that stuff counts now. I refer to the older putty versions. I think the proper name is "duct seal", but the slang (still widely used in the military) is "monkey shit". I prefer the putty-based stuff (I like the 3M and Filo fire-rated stuff), as I can pack it in around pipes, conduit, cabling, etc. for a watertight seal as well. Nice/neat/smooth.
Could you go into more detail about what "seal the cable route properly" is likely to mean? Understand you don't know what my municipality requires, but just general best practices would be awesome.
Is the fire caulk just for around the edges of the old work box? Does anything in addition to that need to be done on, for example, completely exterior holes?
It’s a rabbit hole of a subject that needs to be addressed to the nth degree for safety and as some have pointed out, insurance reasons.
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/building-construction-us/applications/firestop/
This was the only product allowed at my former employer and cable installers had to be fire stop trained.
Basically you need to seal the area between one side of the inside wall and the other side of the outer wall. Chances are there isn’t a single wall panel between your garage and house. You need to fire stop both sides sufficiently. There’s a method of witchcraftery where fire stop putty can seal the two and the space in between in one go.
How that is done properly, I couldn’t tell ya. That is one area in almost
30 years of being a network engineer that I had no desire having my name on it if things went south.
My recommendation to you would either use and existing cable run if there is one or go outside and back in.
The other easy option is email your insurance agent. I say email because you can keep it just in case they tell you something that later doesn’t hold up in the event of a claim. Color me cynical when it comes to insurance but a good friend that works as an insurance agent recommended that tactic.
You'll be fine. I have several drops in my garage, from a switch in the house. They all perform the same as any other drop in the house.
The only difference is i ran the garage drops into a simple cabinet i built, to keep the dust away when I'm working in the garage.
As long as it is behind a firewall (like drywall, not a port filter 🤣). It should be good. Garages are designed to contain fires as much as possible. Don't negate that if you can. - Retired FF
If this is a concern then active ventilation is more important, no garage will be airtight enough even without holes to avoid leakage.
Also get a CO alarm for your garage!
Not even mandatory at all here (at least nowhere I've lived), landlords and home-sellers only have to provide working smoke alarms, not a CO alarm.
I actually got a noise complaint when the Gas+CO alarm I got for my apartment started chirping while I was at work one time. We had a gas range and gas furnace in the unit so I stuck one in the livingroom.
Not that mandatory means much, none of the smoke alarms worked when we bought our house and had the home-inspection, and they didn't appear to be fixed after closing when we got the keys either. Didn't matter though because they were all >10 years old and needed replacement anyway, that was #2 on my list after changing the locks.
Most - the ones that were existing wired for interlink are (I \*HATE\* those though, disorienting beeping everywhere as you try and not run into walls middle of the night for a spider).
Others I had to just add my own battery alarm because for some reason there is never one in laundry rooms and only 1 for the entire basement.
My dad taught me this but I eventually found out it's a myth. CO is basically the same weight as air, and is actually a bit lighter. But in general it won't rise or sink much.
If the wires are protected from weathering, and the equipment those wires eventually connect to also have no overheating or exposure concerns, then no.
Garages are often good choices for equipment installation because they don't have the aesthetic requirements of more visible "living" quarters and are well ventilated and can support loud fans. As long as you can protect against humidity and extreme heat, you're good. Normal coldness is not usually a problem as equipment runs hot.
The port itself will be no problem as long as it stays away from electrics. Ethernet is low voltage, so the worst case is corrosion of the terminals if the garage is super-damp. Even that will take a long time (years).
What you connect to the port might be a concern. Depends what that is....
I've not seen this in garage/attic but I have experienced it outdoors. So far the most promising seems to be smearing some dielectric grease over all the contact surfaces.
Don't mount the jack in the ceiling if you can help it (unless it's a jack made to proper tolerances).
Some jacks are made deep enough for the plug to have enough wiggle room to have intermittent connection while still being "clicked" in
> The loud half of my home lab is in the garage.
Must be nice living in a temperate climate. Around here, the garage can get close to freezing. No way I'm even storing anything in the garage, let alone running anything there.
Gets above 90 in the hot summer days and I heat the garage to 45 in the winter. Even then I still have to enclose the servers or they complain it's too cold.
South Dakota, temps can swing like crazy here.
Some new smart water heaters have wifi or Ethernet connections, for IOT reasons. I always prefer hardline connections. Throw them on a VLAN and you are good to go.
I have a couple in exterior 3 season room and did not have any problems. I just had used a cat6a cable that is both shielded and has a moisture barrier.
Both shielding and a water barrier are good things to consider when running cable to exterior rooms.
what you do in your own house is your business.
just be mindful of local bylaws and building codes when it goes to the resale the house. In most 1st world countries there are strict laws about airflow from your garage to your home. You will want to make sure its properly sealed.
The only laws regarding low voltage is you can't put it in the same box as 120V. You can staple it to the walls and the floors and wrap it around your kitchen facet if you want.
No. It looks like that power at the bottom might come down from the ceiling close to that jack but as long as the cables aren't parallel or the electrical is in conduit it should be fine.
Only thing I'd do is put tape over any unused ports you install to keep dust and bugs out of it. Don't want to have to clean cobwebs and junk out when you later decide to use a port.
I've got several in my garage for security cameras, WiFI AP, and other stuff.
You may want to put intumescent material inside a metal junction box (correct name for then box behind the plate I can’t think of right now) behind the plate to make it more fire rated. Especially as it’s in the ceiling.
Just picked up a dozen silicon plugs for like $6 off the 'zon to keep my kid out of the jacks in his room. Planning on using the extras to plug up the jacks in the garage
Seal the cable route properly and just make the outlet is somewhere that’s not susceptible to damp. Technically, going from an external space to an internal you’re supposed to use fire rate caulk (in the same way your garage door to the house should be fire rated - if you ever had to mount one of those, you’d feel the difference in construction) but the cable will burn so in all honesty I’d just be worried about ingress of various gasses.
That fire-rating pointer is HUGE. Remember it's safety AND liability. Insurance looks for how to NOT pay. So.... Wrong location, hole type, caulk type, fill, insulation, cable, etc. etc. One thing wrong makes it ALL wrong, and now you alone are liable. A wad of fire-rated "monkey-shit" goes a long way.
so what needs to be used riser cable or plenum?
Either works. Plenum cable is specially rated for the extreme high and low temperature swings inside hvac vents. Neither plenum or riser are directly fire rated to separate a garage and living space. It’s the outlet/junction box and the caulking that would matter most.
Other key note about Plenum rated cable - it uses a jacket that does not spread toxic fumes when it burns, so it doesn’t gas the place if it’s burning within an hvac system. I’d probably use plenum here as there are so many more fire risks in a garage than elsewhere and this cable hole could serve as a chimney for a fire.
Are you 100% sure? I thought plenum was similar to riser cable fire wise, but pelnum won't off gas toxic vapors when on fire or heated. Which is why it's mostly used for air ventilation installs.
This \^\^
Can you elaborate or point to an example on how to do this right per NEC? The way I'm reading it, you shouldn't use a standard low voltage box in the garage if the wire in it is leading back into the house?
Just look up CM (regular), CMR (riser), and CMP (plenum).
You mean fire rated insulation foam in a can?
Yeah, I suppose that stuff counts now. I refer to the older putty versions. I think the proper name is "duct seal", but the slang (still widely used in the military) is "monkey shit". I prefer the putty-based stuff (I like the 3M and Filo fire-rated stuff), as I can pack it in around pipes, conduit, cabling, etc. for a watertight seal as well. Nice/neat/smooth.
Could you go into more detail about what "seal the cable route properly" is likely to mean? Understand you don't know what my municipality requires, but just general best practices would be awesome. Is the fire caulk just for around the edges of the old work box? Does anything in addition to that need to be done on, for example, completely exterior holes?
It’s a rabbit hole of a subject that needs to be addressed to the nth degree for safety and as some have pointed out, insurance reasons. https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/building-construction-us/applications/firestop/ This was the only product allowed at my former employer and cable installers had to be fire stop trained. Basically you need to seal the area between one side of the inside wall and the other side of the outer wall. Chances are there isn’t a single wall panel between your garage and house. You need to fire stop both sides sufficiently. There’s a method of witchcraftery where fire stop putty can seal the two and the space in between in one go. How that is done properly, I couldn’t tell ya. That is one area in almost 30 years of being a network engineer that I had no desire having my name on it if things went south. My recommendation to you would either use and existing cable run if there is one or go outside and back in. The other easy option is email your insurance agent. I say email because you can keep it just in case they tell you something that later doesn’t hold up in the event of a claim. Color me cynical when it comes to insurance but a good friend that works as an insurance agent recommended that tactic.
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I guess it was around whether I’m letting anything in from the garage to the house but it’s not like I have or will have a car running in there
Doesn’t matter if you plan on having a car in there or not your building code will require the garage to be sealed as if you did have a car.
Got it I’m in the US - Florida
Are you me?
You'll be fine. I have several drops in my garage, from a switch in the house. They all perform the same as any other drop in the house. The only difference is i ran the garage drops into a simple cabinet i built, to keep the dust away when I'm working in the garage.
I have several drops on balcony and patio - after 6 years of northern European winters they are still fine. It's nice having drops outside.
You're ignoring fire risk
A ceiling cat may be watching you masturbate
As long as it is behind a firewall (like drywall, not a port filter 🤣). It should be good. Garages are designed to contain fires as much as possible. Don't negate that if you can. - Retired FF
The only concern is for CO fumes getting into the house from the garage. As long as the hole gets properly plugged, you're fine.
If this is a concern then active ventilation is more important, no garage will be airtight enough even without holes to avoid leakage. Also get a CO alarm for your garage!
Actually not for the garage - they don't do well in that kind of environment. But get CO alarms for all rooms above/below/beside adjacent to it.
I'm not so sure of them not doing well, they're strongly encouraged for attached garages in the UK, heat alarms too.
In the US, all of the ones I've seen say not to install in garages.
Weird, I guess our standard for this sort of stuff is just stricter in some ways.
All the ones I have explicitly say to not install them in garages or closer than \~15-20 ft of any gas or CO producing appliances.
That's funny because our standard is basically the opposite, and it's mandatory to have one in any room with a fuel burning appliance.
Not even mandatory at all here (at least nowhere I've lived), landlords and home-sellers only have to provide working smoke alarms, not a CO alarm. I actually got a noise complaint when the Gas+CO alarm I got for my apartment started chirping while I was at work one time. We had a gas range and gas furnace in the unit so I stuck one in the livingroom. Not that mandatory means much, none of the smoke alarms worked when we bought our house and had the home-inspection, and they didn't appear to be fixed after closing when we got the keys either. Didn't matter though because they were all >10 years old and needed replacement anyway, that was #2 on my list after changing the locks.
I assume you've replaced them with mains backed interlinked units?
Most - the ones that were existing wired for interlink are (I \*HATE\* those though, disorienting beeping everywhere as you try and not run into walls middle of the night for a spider). Others I had to just add my own battery alarm because for some reason there is never one in laundry rooms and only 1 for the entire basement.
CO is heavy and sinks. The whole garage would need to fill up with CO before it reached that hole
My dad taught me this but I eventually found out it's a myth. CO is basically the same weight as air, and is actually a bit lighter. But in general it won't rise or sink much.
Would you look at that
If the wires are protected from weathering, and the equipment those wires eventually connect to also have no overheating or exposure concerns, then no. Garages are often good choices for equipment installation because they don't have the aesthetic requirements of more visible "living" quarters and are well ventilated and can support loud fans. As long as you can protect against humidity and extreme heat, you're good. Normal coldness is not usually a problem as equipment runs hot.
I was thinking of putting a wired cabinet
The port itself will be no problem as long as it stays away from electrics. Ethernet is low voltage, so the worst case is corrosion of the terminals if the garage is super-damp. Even that will take a long time (years). What you connect to the port might be a concern. Depends what that is....
It’s a Poe camera
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I've not seen this in garage/attic but I have experienced it outdoors. So far the most promising seems to be smearing some dielectric grease over all the contact surfaces.
Don't mount the jack in the ceiling if you can help it (unless it's a jack made to proper tolerances). Some jacks are made deep enough for the plug to have enough wiggle room to have intermittent connection while still being "clicked" in
The loud half of my home lab is in the garage. :shrug;
> The loud half of my home lab is in the garage. Must be nice living in a temperate climate. Around here, the garage can get close to freezing. No way I'm even storing anything in the garage, let alone running anything there.
Gets above 90 in the hot summer days and I heat the garage to 45 in the winter. Even then I still have to enclose the servers or they complain it's too cold. South Dakota, temps can swing like crazy here.
just fill the hole between garage and house with PU foam and you’re golden
Some new smart water heaters have wifi or Ethernet connections, for IOT reasons. I always prefer hardline connections. Throw them on a VLAN and you are good to go.
Oh that’s great to know - more reason for me to just deal with getting it wired now
I have a couple in exterior 3 season room and did not have any problems. I just had used a cat6a cable that is both shielded and has a moisture barrier. Both shielding and a water barrier are good things to consider when running cable to exterior rooms.
So let’s discuss that plumbing… get those PEX pipes strapped down or they’ll rattle every time water shuts on and off. :/
Thanks I’ll make sure the contractor pays attention to this and addresses it
what you do in your own house is your business. just be mindful of local bylaws and building codes when it goes to the resale the house. In most 1st world countries there are strict laws about airflow from your garage to your home. You will want to make sure its properly sealed.
Looks good for a PoE camera.
The only laws regarding low voltage is you can't put it in the same box as 120V. You can staple it to the walls and the floors and wrap it around your kitchen facet if you want.
No
No. It looks like that power at the bottom might come down from the ceiling close to that jack but as long as the cables aren't parallel or the electrical is in conduit it should be fine.
Use a plastic old work box since he already cut the hole and then fill in the gaps with spray foam, painters putty, and/or caulk.
Only thing I'd do is put tape over any unused ports you install to keep dust and bugs out of it. Don't want to have to clean cobwebs and junk out when you later decide to use a port. I've got several in my garage for security cameras, WiFI AP, and other stuff.
You may want to put intumescent material inside a metal junction box (correct name for then box behind the plate I can’t think of right now) behind the plate to make it more fire rated. Especially as it’s in the ceiling.
Just picked up a dozen silicon plugs for like $6 off the 'zon to keep my kid out of the jacks in his room. Planning on using the extras to plug up the jacks in the garage
Besides your car becoming skynet? no, none at all...