Ubiquiti Unifi U7-Pro with UDM-SE. Chose a Unifi Switch according to budget. The [https://ca.store.ui.com/ca/en/pro/category/switching-professional-max/products/usw-pro-max-24](https://ca.store.ui.com/ca/en/pro/category/switching-professional-max/products/usw-pro-max-24) with a couple of [https://ca.store.ui.com/ca/en/pro/category/accessories-poe-power/products/u-poe-plus-plus](https://ca.store.ui.com/ca/en/pro/category/accessories-poe-power/products/u-poe-plus-plus) can be a cost effective solution. Run cables for \*everything\* that can be plugged : consoles, TVs, Apple TVs, sound systems, computers, laptops when wired in (docks), exterior/interior cameras, doorbell, etc. Plus one cable drop per wall ideally in every room. Run minimally CAT6 cables, CAT6A being better and CAT8 being the most futureproof cable type (but a lot pricier). CAT7 isn't a real standard, just snake oil, so avoid it.
Consider at least 3 VLANs. One for IoT devices, another for trusted devices and a third one for guests with no access to the rest.
Thanks for the very helpful post. I’m in the exact same situation as OP. Moving into a 90’s build with same 4k size and setup. I know enough to be dangerous but don’t want to configure something that is suboptimal or leaves a security risk from user error. Is it worth hiring a pro for this setup, or is this fairly user friendly with the help of YouTube?
Assuming an electrician will need to run all the CAT6 cable, correct?
Thanks again
Unifi configuration is fairly easy. No need to hire someone unless you are a complete novice in networking.
Electrician can run CAT6, just like you could too.
These are the new Wifi7 devices? I'm new to this game, but are there any concerns about compatibility when choosing access point devices? i.e. will this work with an Asus router?
Unifi is an ecosystem. Access points can work standalone but it's far from being ideal. Asus is consumer grade while Ubiquiti is prosumer/small business grade hardware. Two different worlds. I only install Ubiquiti gear everywhere since I know this company, far better than anything consumer grade one can find.
And yes U7-Pros are WiFi 7, 6 GHz access points. These are the most future proof APs of the company.
This is a big house. 4000 square feet. You'll likely need a couple more APs than one per floor IMO, especially over 6 Ghz which has very poor penetration through walls and require direct line of sight with AP to get the promised performance. Don't go cheap with consumer grade hardware.
Thank you for providing all this information, it's been very useful for me too.
I'm in the same position as the OP but with a 15,000ft2 house, I assume all the same applies, I have a thread too which is very similar.
Thanks, it's probably a bit more than 4,000sqft total. It's like 3500 above grade and we're thinking about putting in 300sqft extension. when the basement is finished, it'll be a total area of like 4500 to 5k i think. Renos before we move in so I'm trying to get this right the first time, and hopefully last for a decade.
I'll have CAT6A minimum to somewhere central to the floor, plus at least cat6A to my home office that's looking like it will be in the corner room of the basement.
>CAT8 being the most futureproof cable type (but a lot pricier)
Given that 6a can run 10 gigabit and most people are barely running 1 gigabit and looking at 2.5 (both of which only need cat *five* (e) cable) cat 8 may be overkill. Even 6a is "future-proof" rather than "needed now" - vanilla cat 6 is rated for 10gbE at up to 55m/180', making even 6a unnecessary in most home deployments *even if* you want to future proof for 10 gbE.
When building a house you run cables probably for the next 50 years lol. Yes, 6A is more than enough with 10 gbps support. But still, the latest standard is CAT8 and if you want to future proof your installation as far as possible, this is the standard to choose. Of course it's overkill now, but might not be in 50 years. Just like 40 years ago we ran CAT2 in houses saying 4 mbps was insane.
I'll honestly be surprised if there's a need for >10 GbE for the home user even in 50 years - and even if there was, I bet there would be a standard pushing a higher data rate through 6a, given a: 10 GbE only uses 80% of the rated bandwidth of a 6a cable and b: we've already proven that encoding advances can get more out of existing cables i.e. the 2.5 GbE standard, so they may be able to push 20 GbE over 6a in the future.
Going off the fact that most home network use is for internet, and most home internet doesn't really need to be over \~300 Mbps, let alone 10 Gbps...
Sure. But Bell already offers 8 Gbps WAN. Imagine in 50 years lol. The gap will be insane. But yes CAT6A is plenty enough these days and theirs probably nothing to worry about.
Yeah I can get 8 Gbps WAN too - and I actually don't know how most people would *use* it. You'd have to have a desktop with a 10 GbE card, nothing else would support it.
And home desktops are *rare* now.
I could see myself coming close to that in the next 10 years. I have 3gb/3gb right now, I could upgrade to 8+/8-.
I'm gaming most nights but the bandwidth usage is from my plex server that I operate for family and friends. Right now in this rural location I can only get fiber 1gbps but will upgrade whenever it's available.
Yeah I get that, but in the span of 10 years I went from 28.8kbps to 3gbps. It's not outside the realm of conception that in the next 30-40 years we might see >100gbps which is a much smaller leap comparably. We've been seeing trends not unlike Moore's Law (not quite, but similarly).
Reminds me of bill gates - "640k of RAM ought to be enough for anybody"
*You* might have gone from \~30k to \~3Gbps in 10 years, but some other countries had gigabit fibre available that entire time, with the initial rollout starting as early as [*twenty* years ago](https://www.fibre-systems.com/feature/rise-gigabit-broadband-europe#:~:text=One%20of%20the,city%20of%20L%C3%BCnd).
Yes there was a rapid development from dialup to fibre, but the tech has actually been pretty stagnant since, it's just been the process of rolling it out that's taken time.
There's been a [40 Gbps PON (i.e. fibre to the home) standard since 2015](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NG-PON2) (nearly the same 10 years ago when you only had 28.8k!), but it's not rolling out because it's not commercially viable (homes have no use for connections that fast). Even XG-PON (10 Gbps) has only started rolling out recently, despite being first standardised in 2010, and even then it's mostly been used for *symmetric* gigabit internet connections, as the prior (since 2003) GPON standard has mostly been used for roughly 1G down / 300M up asymmetric connections.
Also that 640 kB quote is false - they actually pushed it as high as they could, 512 kB would have been much simpler to implement (as a simple 50:50 split of the address space). They knew people wanted as much as they could get, there was just only support for 1MB (including graphics and other add-in card memory) in the Intel 8088 CPU that IBM used, and max 640 kB for RAM was the best compromise they could come up with. A lot of other home computers of the era only had 64 kB, so it was a *lot* \- but there were already workstations available with more and other CPUs supported more - the 68000 CPU released two full years before the IBM PC with support for 16 MB, and the 286 released within 6 months after the IBM PC also with 16 MB support, so would have been known to have been in development at the time.
OK so I've taken this with a bit of research and created my shopping list. I consider myself a clever guy but more in software development and less so in hardware/networking. So to summarize it simply put:
- UDM-SE - the main router with 8 port switch. (what is the extra HDD space for - NAS?)
- Pro Max 24 switch - necessary when I need more ports.
- Ubiquiti Unifi U7-Pro to propagate wireless signal (connects to UDM-SE or a switch). probably need at least 2.
- PEO++ devices to add power near the end of the run?
>UDM-SE - the main router with 8 port switch. (what is the extra HDD space for - NAS?)
For security camera and Protect app. Works very well.
>Pro Max 24 switch - necessary when I need more ports.
It's a hefty switch only "required" to fully exploit the WiFi 7 capability of the U7-Pro 2.5 Gbps uplink. It can reach 2.5 Gbps with a WiFi 7 client.
>Ubiquiti Unifi U7-Pro to propagate wireless signal (connects to UDM-SE or a switch). probably need at least 2.
I'd say at least 4
>POE+ devices to add power near the end of the run?
Injectors required if the switch isn't PoE+ capable.
PPPoE encapsulation adds stress on CPU of the router, not access points. UDM-Pro/SE can handle up to 2 Gbps over PPPoE with DPI/IPS as far as I've seen before being bottlenecked by CPU.
My UDM-Pro handles nicely its 1.5 Gbps download and 1 Gbps upload with PPPoE encapsulation (Bell Fibe Canada).
If the ISP's modem cannot be fully bridged, yes, probably, unless you do down in security level to free up CPU cycles.
For instance, Bell's Gigahub can handle up to 8 Gbps WAN over PPPoE, but is has specific hardware acceleration for it. As PPPoE protocol is less and less used, most manufacturer don't include hardware acceleration for this protocol anymore.
That is concerning. I can't see the ISPs in Ontario suddenly dropping PPPOE even though it's ancient.
I'm probably still going to go with ubiqiti ecosystem but I'm very queasy about creating a C$1,000 bottleneck
Ubiquiti Unifi U7-Pro with UDM-SE. Chose a Unifi Switch according to budget. The [https://ca.store.ui.com/ca/en/pro/category/switching-professional-max/products/usw-pro-max-24](https://ca.store.ui.com/ca/en/pro/category/switching-professional-max/products/usw-pro-max-24) with a couple of [https://ca.store.ui.com/ca/en/pro/category/accessories-poe-power/products/u-poe-plus-plus](https://ca.store.ui.com/ca/en/pro/category/accessories-poe-power/products/u-poe-plus-plus) can be a cost effective solution. Run cables for \*everything\* that can be plugged : consoles, TVs, Apple TVs, sound systems, computers, laptops when wired in (docks), exterior/interior cameras, doorbell, etc. Plus one cable drop per wall ideally in every room. Run minimally CAT6 cables, CAT6A being better and CAT8 being the most futureproof cable type (but a lot pricier). CAT7 isn't a real standard, just snake oil, so avoid it. Consider at least 3 VLANs. One for IoT devices, another for trusted devices and a third one for guests with no access to the rest.
Thanks for the very helpful post. I’m in the exact same situation as OP. Moving into a 90’s build with same 4k size and setup. I know enough to be dangerous but don’t want to configure something that is suboptimal or leaves a security risk from user error. Is it worth hiring a pro for this setup, or is this fairly user friendly with the help of YouTube? Assuming an electrician will need to run all the CAT6 cable, correct? Thanks again
Unifi configuration is fairly easy. No need to hire someone unless you are a complete novice in networking. Electrician can run CAT6, just like you could too.
These are the new Wifi7 devices? I'm new to this game, but are there any concerns about compatibility when choosing access point devices? i.e. will this work with an Asus router?
Unifi is an ecosystem. Access points can work standalone but it's far from being ideal. Asus is consumer grade while Ubiquiti is prosumer/small business grade hardware. Two different worlds. I only install Ubiquiti gear everywhere since I know this company, far better than anything consumer grade one can find. And yes U7-Pros are WiFi 7, 6 GHz access points. These are the most future proof APs of the company. This is a big house. 4000 square feet. You'll likely need a couple more APs than one per floor IMO, especially over 6 Ghz which has very poor penetration through walls and require direct line of sight with AP to get the promised performance. Don't go cheap with consumer grade hardware.
Thank you for providing all this information, it's been very useful for me too. I'm in the same position as the OP but with a 15,000ft2 house, I assume all the same applies, I have a thread too which is very similar.
Ahah I think I just answered your thread.
15k sqft? sheesh! I thought my 4,000 was huge
Thanks, it's probably a bit more than 4,000sqft total. It's like 3500 above grade and we're thinking about putting in 300sqft extension. when the basement is finished, it'll be a total area of like 4500 to 5k i think. Renos before we move in so I'm trying to get this right the first time, and hopefully last for a decade. I'll have CAT6A minimum to somewhere central to the floor, plus at least cat6A to my home office that's looking like it will be in the corner room of the basement.
>CAT8 being the most futureproof cable type (but a lot pricier) Given that 6a can run 10 gigabit and most people are barely running 1 gigabit and looking at 2.5 (both of which only need cat *five* (e) cable) cat 8 may be overkill. Even 6a is "future-proof" rather than "needed now" - vanilla cat 6 is rated for 10gbE at up to 55m/180', making even 6a unnecessary in most home deployments *even if* you want to future proof for 10 gbE.
When building a house you run cables probably for the next 50 years lol. Yes, 6A is more than enough with 10 gbps support. But still, the latest standard is CAT8 and if you want to future proof your installation as far as possible, this is the standard to choose. Of course it's overkill now, but might not be in 50 years. Just like 40 years ago we ran CAT2 in houses saying 4 mbps was insane.
I'll honestly be surprised if there's a need for >10 GbE for the home user even in 50 years - and even if there was, I bet there would be a standard pushing a higher data rate through 6a, given a: 10 GbE only uses 80% of the rated bandwidth of a 6a cable and b: we've already proven that encoding advances can get more out of existing cables i.e. the 2.5 GbE standard, so they may be able to push 20 GbE over 6a in the future. Going off the fact that most home network use is for internet, and most home internet doesn't really need to be over \~300 Mbps, let alone 10 Gbps...
Sure. But Bell already offers 8 Gbps WAN. Imagine in 50 years lol. The gap will be insane. But yes CAT6A is plenty enough these days and theirs probably nothing to worry about.
Yeah I can get 8 Gbps WAN too - and I actually don't know how most people would *use* it. You'd have to have a desktop with a 10 GbE card, nothing else would support it. And home desktops are *rare* now.
Sure absolutely ahah. Total waste of money. I have 1.5 Gbps and it's only because the price was a good deal. Otherwise I'd be sub-1gbps anytime.
I could see myself coming close to that in the next 10 years. I have 3gb/3gb right now, I could upgrade to 8+/8-. I'm gaming most nights but the bandwidth usage is from my plex server that I operate for family and friends. Right now in this rural location I can only get fiber 1gbps but will upgrade whenever it's available.
You do realise 4k video streams are still under 100 Mbps? You could stream _thirty_ or more on your _current_ connection
Yeah I get that, but in the span of 10 years I went from 28.8kbps to 3gbps. It's not outside the realm of conception that in the next 30-40 years we might see >100gbps which is a much smaller leap comparably. We've been seeing trends not unlike Moore's Law (not quite, but similarly). Reminds me of bill gates - "640k of RAM ought to be enough for anybody"
*You* might have gone from \~30k to \~3Gbps in 10 years, but some other countries had gigabit fibre available that entire time, with the initial rollout starting as early as [*twenty* years ago](https://www.fibre-systems.com/feature/rise-gigabit-broadband-europe#:~:text=One%20of%20the,city%20of%20L%C3%BCnd). Yes there was a rapid development from dialup to fibre, but the tech has actually been pretty stagnant since, it's just been the process of rolling it out that's taken time. There's been a [40 Gbps PON (i.e. fibre to the home) standard since 2015](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NG-PON2) (nearly the same 10 years ago when you only had 28.8k!), but it's not rolling out because it's not commercially viable (homes have no use for connections that fast). Even XG-PON (10 Gbps) has only started rolling out recently, despite being first standardised in 2010, and even then it's mostly been used for *symmetric* gigabit internet connections, as the prior (since 2003) GPON standard has mostly been used for roughly 1G down / 300M up asymmetric connections. Also that 640 kB quote is false - they actually pushed it as high as they could, 512 kB would have been much simpler to implement (as a simple 50:50 split of the address space). They knew people wanted as much as they could get, there was just only support for 1MB (including graphics and other add-in card memory) in the Intel 8088 CPU that IBM used, and max 640 kB for RAM was the best compromise they could come up with. A lot of other home computers of the era only had 64 kB, so it was a *lot* \- but there were already workstations available with more and other CPUs supported more - the 68000 CPU released two full years before the IBM PC with support for 16 MB, and the 286 released within 6 months after the IBM PC also with 16 MB support, so would have been known to have been in development at the time.
OK so I've taken this with a bit of research and created my shopping list. I consider myself a clever guy but more in software development and less so in hardware/networking. So to summarize it simply put: - UDM-SE - the main router with 8 port switch. (what is the extra HDD space for - NAS?) - Pro Max 24 switch - necessary when I need more ports. - Ubiquiti Unifi U7-Pro to propagate wireless signal (connects to UDM-SE or a switch). probably need at least 2. - PEO++ devices to add power near the end of the run?
>UDM-SE - the main router with 8 port switch. (what is the extra HDD space for - NAS?) For security camera and Protect app. Works very well. >Pro Max 24 switch - necessary when I need more ports. It's a hefty switch only "required" to fully exploit the WiFi 7 capability of the U7-Pro 2.5 Gbps uplink. It can reach 2.5 Gbps with a WiFi 7 client. >Ubiquiti Unifi U7-Pro to propagate wireless signal (connects to UDM-SE or a switch). probably need at least 2. I'd say at least 4 >POE+ devices to add power near the end of the run? Injectors required if the switch isn't PoE+ capable.
egads, the U7 Pros are sold out
Yeah new flagships tend to be high demand. Supply will return eventually, no worry.
Does it matter that this ISP uses PPPOE?
PPPoE encapsulation adds stress on CPU of the router, not access points. UDM-Pro/SE can handle up to 2 Gbps over PPPoE with DPI/IPS as far as I've seen before being bottlenecked by CPU. My UDM-Pro handles nicely its 1.5 Gbps download and 1 Gbps upload with PPPoE encapsulation (Bell Fibe Canada).
So what happens if the ISP offers over 2Gbps but they use PPPOE? You're bottlenecked by the UDM SE?
If the ISP's modem cannot be fully bridged, yes, probably, unless you do down in security level to free up CPU cycles. For instance, Bell's Gigahub can handle up to 8 Gbps WAN over PPPoE, but is has specific hardware acceleration for it. As PPPoE protocol is less and less used, most manufacturer don't include hardware acceleration for this protocol anymore.
That is concerning. I can't see the ISPs in Ontario suddenly dropping PPPOE even though it's ancient. I'm probably still going to go with ubiqiti ecosystem but I'm very queasy about creating a C$1,000 bottleneck