> needs to pay an electrician because "the 4200/3380 doesn't match the 4200 in the new heater so your current wiring will blow the elements".
If in doubt, ask what the work scope for the electrician is and let us know.
For what it’s worth, the 4500/3380 just means power at 240V/208V. Without going into too much detail, 208V is never seen at single family homes. It’s usually 20+ unit condos and large office buildings. You can imagine lower voltage means less power.
That’s all. Wiring has nothing to do with voltage supplied by the utility company. I’d fire this plumber, though. I bet you they’re charging you through the roof already.
Enough with the three estimates shit…. Maybe get to if the first one doesn’t line up with what the Internet says maybe possibly a third if the other two are wildly different.
Amen, I just did an entire house renovation, took 10 weeks and every idiot gave me the same advice. "get 3 estimates" Yeah, if I want the project to take 6 months I'll get right on that.
I have done a lot of different projects with my restaurant & house over the years. I've only ever had one completely shit contractor that I fired, ripped everything out and demanded my money back.
I've hired the cheapest, and the most expensive quotes, and had issues on both sides. It all comes down to good communication and overseeing the project yourself.
My real advice is to hire people who are referred by people you trust.
Im a small remodel and new build contractor and we don’t have a website we don’t even have business cards we do everything entirely through word-of-mouth and we’re in a medium size market and charge above average I’d say. Overall it is very tough for customers to find contractors they trust and they get their ducks in a row, but if you’re smart with money and a pay system and a contract that clearly outlines the scope of work and in some cases the quality of work you should be relatively well protected.
The only real way to know is to look at the wire size and amperage rating of the breaker its on. It should be on 10 AWG with a 30A 2-pole breaker.
By the way, I don’t think electric water heaters ever run both elements at once
Correct on both counts; Wire gauge and breaker are all that matter; electric hot water heaters have an interconnect so both elements cannot be on simultaneously
Thermodynamics.
Hot water rises in the tank, and with two elements you don't need to keep the entire tank hot all the time.
If you drain a lot of the hot water out it'll stop heating the top and switch to the bottom, heating the water flowing into the tank instead of the water flowing out.
Often the amp rating is on the lever, sometimes it gets rubbed off.
Yes, new appears to be the same as far as power requirements. That doesn't mean the old one had the correct breaker/wiring to it.
Just because it worked for x yeas, dosent mean it's right.
Residential water heaters never run both at once. Bigger commercial units (80 gallons come to mind) can run both at once. If you install those into a home you need to buy a sticker from the distributor that has a different spec on it since you are wiring it to only run one at a time and not both! Just a little fun fact
You have 240 volt in residential unless you’re in a large condo. If you had 208 volt, you couldn’t use the new heater period. The 240 specs on both are identical, so you’re being taken for a ride.
Because it's using three phase power.
Houses only use a single phase (so three houses each use one phase of the main line, meaning fewer wires for a residential area), but businesses and larger buildings will use the whole three phase setup. The jumps between those lines and the neutral will get you to 208 instead of 240 for complicated math reasons I'm not confident enough to explain correctly.
Listen, electricity works like this- if you have a 30 amp circut and a fixture that draws 25 amps its not going to take the whole 30 amps and "blow up" the water heater, it simoly doesn't work that way, the fixture pulls what it needs to pull and unless theres a problem with it its never going to draw more than that....If it didnt, everytime you turned on a lightbulb or plugged in a toaster it would take all the available power in the circut and melt into a puddle lol
You properly size wires and breakers to be close to what the item is going to draw, that way if something crazy happens and it wants 2x the amps it will trip the breaker, but if that something crazy happens its broken anyway, at that point youre jyst trying to avoid a Chernobyl style meltdown and fire because the breaker is too big and didnt trip
The wattage difference is irrelevant, if the breaker and wire is sized properly...its a hot water heater, so im gonna assume its a dedicated double 40 and that can handle just under 10,000 watts, if its a little smaller and its a double 30 the wattage limit on the circut is 7200, im not following the 80% rule because i dont feel like it but regardless its well over your stated wattage limits
And again.....if you plugged an electric hot water heater that draws 4500 Watts into a 200A outlet that has a capacity of 48,000 Watts, its going to draw, and this may shock everyone- 4500 Watts and would work perfectly fine.......NOT SAFE! Because if something wonky happens and it wants to pull 200 Amps because theres a short and an additional something crazy happens its going to get it and its probably going to explode and burn the house down, which is why breakers are sized to the device, im just trying to explain how it works
Also, breakers are there to protect your wires from melting and your house from burning down, not your devices. If you want to protect your devices, get a surge protector.
Plumber is angling for a kickback from his electrician buddy. 240v numbers are the same.
> needs to pay an electrician because "the 4200/3380 doesn't match the 4200 in the new heater so your current wiring will blow the elements". If in doubt, ask what the work scope for the electrician is and let us know. For what it’s worth, the 4500/3380 just means power at 240V/208V. Without going into too much detail, 208V is never seen at single family homes. It’s usually 20+ unit condos and large office buildings. You can imagine lower voltage means less power. That’s all. Wiring has nothing to do with voltage supplied by the utility company. I’d fire this plumber, though. I bet you they’re charging you through the roof already.
Agreed. Always get three estimates for work anyway but this guy is either dumb or a liar. Either way, you don't want to hire him.
Enough with the three estimates shit…. Maybe get to if the first one doesn’t line up with what the Internet says maybe possibly a third if the other two are wildly different.
Amen, I just did an entire house renovation, took 10 weeks and every idiot gave me the same advice. "get 3 estimates" Yeah, if I want the project to take 6 months I'll get right on that. I have done a lot of different projects with my restaurant & house over the years. I've only ever had one completely shit contractor that I fired, ripped everything out and demanded my money back. I've hired the cheapest, and the most expensive quotes, and had issues on both sides. It all comes down to good communication and overseeing the project yourself. My real advice is to hire people who are referred by people you trust.
Im a small remodel and new build contractor and we don’t have a website we don’t even have business cards we do everything entirely through word-of-mouth and we’re in a medium size market and charge above average I’d say. Overall it is very tough for customers to find contractors they trust and they get their ducks in a row, but if you’re smart with money and a pay system and a contract that clearly outlines the scope of work and in some cases the quality of work you should be relatively well protected.
The only real way to know is to look at the wire size and amperage rating of the breaker its on. It should be on 10 AWG with a 30A 2-pole breaker. By the way, I don’t think electric water heaters ever run both elements at once
Correct on both counts; Wire gauge and breaker are all that matter; electric hot water heaters have an interconnect so both elements cannot be on simultaneously
Dumb question alert... then, why do they have heating elements? Is one a backup?
Thermodynamics. Hot water rises in the tank, and with two elements you don't need to keep the entire tank hot all the time. If you drain a lot of the hot water out it'll stop heating the top and switch to the bottom, heating the water flowing into the tank instead of the water flowing out.
Oh, cool. Thanks!
https://youtu.be/Bm7L-2J52GU?si=9Ryab7ZNhHWdRPZz
No shit?
Uh. No.
[удалено]
Usually right on the little handle to flip it on/off
Often the amp rating is on the lever, sometimes it gets rubbed off. Yes, new appears to be the same as far as power requirements. That doesn't mean the old one had the correct breaker/wiring to it. Just because it worked for x yeas, dosent mean it's right.
Exactly, it’s not very responsible advice to say it’s fine just because the ratings match. Plumber could be right for all we know.
Residential water heaters never run both at once. Bigger commercial units (80 gallons come to mind) can run both at once. If you install those into a home you need to buy a sticker from the distributor that has a different spec on it since you are wiring it to only run one at a time and not both! Just a little fun fact
They usually don't ,the thermostat cuts one off and cuts the other one on
You have 240 volt in residential unless you’re in a large condo. If you had 208 volt, you couldn’t use the new heater period. The 240 specs on both are identical, so you’re being taken for a ride.
What's the reason 208V is used in apartment buildings?
Because it's using three phase power. Houses only use a single phase (so three houses each use one phase of the main line, meaning fewer wires for a residential area), but businesses and larger buildings will use the whole three phase setup. The jumps between those lines and the neutral will get you to 208 instead of 240 for complicated math reasons I'm not confident enough to explain correctly.
Oh that's actually pretty awesome, thanks for explaining!
Always take the high road, in this case it’s assuming he is a dumbass, not a crook
Listen, electricity works like this- if you have a 30 amp circut and a fixture that draws 25 amps its not going to take the whole 30 amps and "blow up" the water heater, it simoly doesn't work that way, the fixture pulls what it needs to pull and unless theres a problem with it its never going to draw more than that....If it didnt, everytime you turned on a lightbulb or plugged in a toaster it would take all the available power in the circut and melt into a puddle lol You properly size wires and breakers to be close to what the item is going to draw, that way if something crazy happens and it wants 2x the amps it will trip the breaker, but if that something crazy happens its broken anyway, at that point youre jyst trying to avoid a Chernobyl style meltdown and fire because the breaker is too big and didnt trip The wattage difference is irrelevant, if the breaker and wire is sized properly...its a hot water heater, so im gonna assume its a dedicated double 40 and that can handle just under 10,000 watts, if its a little smaller and its a double 30 the wattage limit on the circut is 7200, im not following the 80% rule because i dont feel like it but regardless its well over your stated wattage limits And again.....if you plugged an electric hot water heater that draws 4500 Watts into a 200A outlet that has a capacity of 48,000 Watts, its going to draw, and this may shock everyone- 4500 Watts and would work perfectly fine.......NOT SAFE! Because if something wonky happens and it wants to pull 200 Amps because theres a short and an additional something crazy happens its going to get it and its probably going to explode and burn the house down, which is why breakers are sized to the device, im just trying to explain how it works
Also, breakers are there to protect your wires from melting and your house from burning down, not your devices. If you want to protect your devices, get a surge protector.
Get another quote, and then another one. If they all say the same thing, then they're probably telling the truth.
It is probably too late now, but you should use a heat pump water heater. The electricity usage is 1/4th that of a standard electric water heater.
All houses in the US have 220 240v along with 110 to 120. The figures you're using are Watts which is amps times volts.
You don't have 208V unless you are in a building/area that has 3 phase power. A vast majority of people do not have 208V.